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Old 10-30-2023, 03:09 PM   #1
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Exclamation Cyanobacteria Alert Issued for Blackey Cove (Moultonborough)

We have received several reports of a severe cyanobacteria bloom impacting the Blackey Cove area on Lake Winnipesaukee. NHDES has issued an alert for this area today. This bloom likely originates from the persistent bloom that has been plaguing Lake Kanasatka for over the last month. Lake Kanasatka flows into Lake Winnipesaukee through the Rt. 25 dam and into Blackey Cove.

NHDES has initially identified the cyanobacteria in Lake Kanasatka as Dolichospermum, Woronichinia, and Microcystis. These cyanobacteria genera are associated with the production of various cyanotoxins that can pose health risks to humans and animals through skin contact, ingestion, or inhalation.

Although Lake Kanasatka is experiencing prolonged and severe blooms this year, other waterbodies in our watershed have also faced similar issues. In recent years, major water bodies in our watershed, including Lake Winnipesaukee, Lake Wentworth, Crescent Lake, Mirror Lake, and Paugus Bay, have all experienced cyanobacteria alerts or advisories.

The undeniable truth is that the environment we once took for granted is changing. The quality of Lake Winnipesaukee's water is at risk, threatened by factors such as stormwater runoff, fertilizer use, and failing septic systems. Our beloved lake has provided joy, recreation, and inspiration for countless residents and visitors. We must not sit back and assume that the lake will always remain as it once was. It is our collective responsibility to act and protect this invaluable resource for ourselves and future generations. Let us stand together and take the necessary steps to ensure the long-term health and vitality of the Lake Winnipesaukee watershed. Join us in our mission to safeguard this natural treasure. Your participation and commitment are vital. Together, we can make a difference. Contact us today to find out how you can help!

Waves of appreciation,
Bree Rossiter
Conservation Program Manager

While recreational lake activities have decreased during the colder season, pets are at increased health risk due to their likelihood of ingesting the water. Here are some commonly asked questions about the situation:

Q: Can we close the dam?
A: Currently, the dam from Lake Kanasatka is operating as usual. The official drawdown is scheduled for November 1. NHDES is closely monitoring the situation and may adjust the schedule if necessary. Please note that there is no option to close the dam and block the bloom since Lake Kanasatka is not a storage reservoir. Therefore, it's not possible to prevent water from flowing into Winnipesaukee, regardless of the dam's outflow.

Q: How about using a sediment fence to block the bloom from spreading?
A: Sediment fences are typically designed to control the movement of particulate matter in bodies of water. Cyanobacteria, being microorganisms, would not be effectively controlled by these screens. Furthermore, cyanobacteria could potentially colonize the sediment caught by submerged fencing, further promoting their growth.

Q: Why is Kanasatka so green? What's the plan to prevent this?
A: Cyanobacteria blooms don't have a single underlying cause. Currently, our lakes are undergoing a process called turnover, where cooler and warmer waters mix with the changing seasons, making nutrients available for plants, algae, and cyanobacteria. Combined with warm temperatures last week, this creates conditions favorable for cyanobacteria growth. Residents of Lake Kanasatka are taking measures to reduce nutrient pollution in their water through individual actions. The Lake Kanasatka Watershed Association is also pursuing treatment to address phosphorus-laden sediment at the lake's bottom, which contributes to these blooms.
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The Lake Winnipesaukee Association (LWA) is a non-profit organization dedicated to protecting the water quality and natural resources of Lake Winnipesaukee and its watershed. Through monitoring, education, stewardship, and science guided approaches for lake management, LWA works to ensure Winnipesaukeeís scenic beauty, wildlife habitat, water quality and recreational potential continues to provide enjoyment long into the future.

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Old 10-30-2023, 03:53 PM   #2
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I never would of guessed that blooms would or could be happening this time of year with water temp so low as it isÖ

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Old 10-30-2023, 04:23 PM   #3
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Probably time to start treating Lake Kantasatka.
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Old 10-30-2023, 05:18 PM   #4
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Allowing lawns along lakefront property is the height of irresponsibility.
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Old 10-30-2023, 06:24 PM   #5
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The people that have the most to lose are the waterfront owners.
So it is up to them to decide if the lawn is worth it.

I know some are just waiting for the Grim Reaper, that seems to be common in the current age, but their estate will lose the value.
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Old 10-30-2023, 07:42 PM   #6
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Question Blackey Cove? Phosphorus-Laden Sediments? Leaves? Soaps? Fertilizer?

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We have received several reports of a severe cyanobacteria bloom impacting the Blackey Cove area on Lake Winnipesaukee. NHDES has issued an alert for this area today. This bloom likely originates from the persistent bloom that has been plaguing Lake Kanasatka for over the last month.
Why aren't these aerial photos labeled as being Lake Kanasatka?

It appears to be in an area of low (local) elevation, downstream from a highway, much cleared land, mostly deciduous trees, and without any dwellings (or lawns) nearby.
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Old 10-30-2023, 09:27 PM   #7
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I would guess that is Blackey Cove... where the alert is issued.
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Old 10-31-2023, 04:18 AM   #8
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I never would of guessed that blooms would or could be happening this time of year with water temp so low as it isÖ

Dan
I was surprised too. I thought this was an old thread but just realized it isn't.
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Old 10-31-2023, 07:10 AM   #9
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Default Definitely Blackey

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Why aren't these aerial photos labeled as being Lake Kanasatka?

It appears to be in an area of low (local) elevation, downstream from a highway, much cleared land, mostly deciduous trees, and without any dwellings (or lawns) nearby.
APS;

This is definitely Blackey Cove. If you do a Google Earth search you can clearly see the similarities...

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Old 10-31-2023, 07:38 AM   #10
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It's Blackey Cove.
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Old 10-31-2023, 08:04 AM   #11
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People seem to be focused on runoff from fertilized lawns as the cause of the blooms. There is very little discussion of fixing the issue of substandard septic systems. I am confident that there are a lot of these in the older cottages on the mainland and on the islands. Years ago the town I live in went around the 100 acre pond I live on and dye tested each house. Well over 50% failed showing leaching into the pond. I know that it is an unbelievably big undertaking but that is a step that should be taken.


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Old 10-31-2023, 08:08 AM   #12
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I have been thinking about this a bit since I saw this thread. Lawns are not the only problem that is upsetting the eco system. Although it is what I see people focus in on. As the natural watershed around the lake continues to be developed, these problems will only increase.....As I don't see the development stopping the only why to help curb the damage is going to be through education.

Getting people to understand what contaminates the watershed and what doesn't. As I have talked to people over the years, I have found that many people don't understand the consequences of mundane things they do....The sad part is even after being educated many people just don't care, it is to important to wash their boats, have green grass, take down trees so that they have a sunny yard all day long etc.

Winnipesaukee, is a wonderful fantastic place, that we have all come to love, the problem is all that love, is taking a toll.... And the next generation of lake addicts just doesn't seem to care about the damage their need to have the perfect lakeside home will do to the environment.
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Old 10-31-2023, 08:27 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by ishoot308 View Post
I never would of guessed that blooms would or could be happening this time of year with water temp so low as it isÖ

Dan
Apparently, the blooms even occur when the lake is iced over. I've seen some aerial photos showing them. Cyanobacteria occurs naturally and is found in water and soil, but the prolific and frequent blooms of recent years have been fueled in large part by run-off, fertilizers, antiquated septic systems, etc.
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Old 10-31-2023, 09:36 AM   #14
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Default Bloom Prevention

Pressure on Winnipesaukee water quality will continue to grow unless serious long term solutions and planning begin. Many years ago in Seattle, Washington, Lake Washington bloomed shocking the residents. The various communities around the 35 mile long lake finally installed a sewage treatment system surrounding the entire body of water. Moultonborough will eventually face the reality that this must be the goal of community along with several other mitigation approaches.
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Old 10-31-2023, 10:26 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by John Mercier View Post
The people that have the most to lose are the waterfront owners.
So it is up to them to decide if the lawn is worth it.

I know some are just waiting for the Grim Reaper, that seems to be common in the current age, but their estate will lose the value.
Didn't someone mention this Years and Years ago. It seems I have read about Lawns creating this problem a few years back. Wish we would have listened.
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Old 10-31-2023, 10:33 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
I have been thinking about this a bit since I saw this thread. Lawns are not the only problem that is upsetting the eco system. Although it is what I see people focus in on. As the natural watershed around the lake continues to be developed, these problems will only increase.....As I don't see the development stopping the only why to help curb the damage is going to be through education.

Getting people to understand what contaminates the watershed and what doesn't. As I have talked to people over the years, I have found that many people don't understand the consequences of mundane things they do....The sad part is even after being educated many people just don't care, it is to important to wash their boats, have green grass, take down trees so that they have a sunny yard all day long etc.

Winnipesaukee, is a wonderful fantastic place, that we have all come to love, the problem is all that love, is taking a toll.... And the next generation of lake addicts just doesn't seem to care about the damage their need to have the perfect lakeside home will do to the environment.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news to all the Live Free or Die folks but, while education is helpful and will bring some people to their senses, governmental intervention and the costs that come with it is the only way this issue has a chance of being solved. A majority of folks just aren't going to contribute to a solution. As you point out, far too many people just don't care.
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Old 10-31-2023, 10:41 AM   #17
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news to all the Live Free or Die folks but, while education is helpful and will bring some people to their senses, governmental intervention and the costs that come with it is the only way this issue has a chance of being solved. A majority of folks just aren't going to contribute to a solution. As you point out, far too many people just don't care.
Because the "Government" handles everything else so well...
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Old 10-31-2023, 11:04 AM   #18
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Default Cyanobacteria mitigation

Maybe the cost of mitigation should be assessed against the offending landowners. The costs to include the direct expenses to mitigate a bloom, and the lost revenue from tourists who choose not to visit due to the bloom.
I realize this is probably not a feasible idea, but even people with waterfront living still feel the hit to their pocketbook.
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Old 10-31-2023, 11:07 AM   #19
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The State controls the lake, so it becomes their responsibility.

They control septic systems... so them again... though not sure why fecal bacteria counts wouldn't rise if it were that. Maybe not testing?

I know they blue dyed the Laconia State Prison when fecal contamination was discovered in Winnisquam.

I can't imagine that it would cost me a lot more when my septic is pumped to have them add the blue dye.
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Old 10-31-2023, 12:30 PM   #20
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news to all the Live Free or Die folks but, while education is helpful and will bring some people to their senses, governmental intervention and the costs that come with it is the only way this issue has a chance of being solved. A majority of folks just aren't going to contribute to a solution. As you point out, far too many people just don't care.
As a member/supporter of multiple lake associations who do a great job of protecting their respective lakes, I find these comments insulting, although I know that is not the intent. If things are so great in CT, why do you come to NH? I think we all see many many surveys, studies, etc. that rank NH as one of the most desirable places to live in the USA. We also see reports of folks fleeing NY, CT, NJ where there is an overabundance of gov't and taxes. When there is an (environmental) issue, government is rarely a leader in solutions. In fact no action at all until the groups mentioned above start their responses.
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Old 10-31-2023, 01:42 PM   #21
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Thanks for the benefit of the doubt as I definitely didn't mean to offend. I just can't see past the continued degradation of our environment unless authorities of some sort enforce mandatory change. The people that care are simply outnumbered by those that don't. Does anyone really think the lake's environmental problems will reverse if left in the hands of education and grass roots alone?

Never said things are so great in CT.
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Old 10-31-2023, 02:07 PM   #22
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Thanks for the benefit of the doubt as I definitely didn't mean to offend. I just can't see past the continued degradation of our environment unless authorities of some sort enforce mandatory change. The people that care are simply outnumbered by those that don't. Does anyone really think the lake's environmental problems will reverse if left in the hands of education and grass roots alone?

Never said things are so great in CT.
I agree and remember learning about when rivers caught on fire and air in some cities was unbreathable.

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Old 10-31-2023, 02:21 PM   #23
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Hmmm, let's talk about boat wakes and fertilizer from sources not on the lake, which due to sheer numbers probably have a larger impact. Lake Kanasatka doesn't appear to have a lot of lawns on it but has a big problem.

Boats, big wakes from boats are a definite problem. Now that these wakes are not around the turbidity of the water is much better. How much extra nutrients are washed into the lake from large boat wakes?

New Hampshire has some of the toughest septic standards in the country from what I understand. When a house is transacted an inspection is required. I'm thinking the number of problem septic systems is probably pretty small.

Leaves and pine needles, we are in the fall season, lots of leaves and pine needles end up in the lake, how much nitrogen and phosphorus is added naturally to the lakes this time of year?

All interesting and relevant questions IMO.
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Old 10-31-2023, 02:55 PM   #24
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Good points, ITD. Some thoughts about septics. Especially around lakes with old camps that have been upgraded to year round use: septics around lakes don't (visibly) fail the way they do in a subdivision, they leach into the lake. When an old camp passes within the family, there is likely no inspection, dye test, etc.

We think mostly about waterfront and the 250' buffer. In many instances, a septic failure up gradient may fail and leach into the lake, traversing over the road and down gradient property. Same with other road and land chemicals. We don't talk about it much, but slope and type of soil as well as the characteristics of the water shed/table play a big part in how chemicals move into our lakes. At least we're not dumping stuff intro the lake by the barrelful the way we did 100 years ago.

Talk earlier about gov't rules, but recall it was the US EPA that "forced" us into MtBE, which ended up contaminating drinking water all over the country, in (misguided?) attempts to clean up the air.
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Old 10-31-2023, 03:04 PM   #25
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How about a mandate requiring every waterfront property to have a certified inspection of the home's septic system (w/ dated pictures); at the expense of the homeowner? Pump-out records, waste pipe integrity, current flow capacity test, leach field condition, and pump-out records should be required. Similar inspections should be required of any restaurants or municipal waste lines within 250' of the lake.

There is no shortage of summer homes whose owners have no idea if they even have a 'real' septic system, where it is located, or even care if it has ever been pumped out. Others have grey water dumping into the lake.

As unpopular for the politicians and expensive for the property owners, the sources of leachate can be located.
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Old 10-31-2023, 03:31 PM   #26
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How about a mandate requiring every waterfront property to have a certified inspection of the home's septic system (w/ dated pictures); at the expense of the homeowner? Pump-out records, waste pipe integrity, current flow capacity test, leach field condition, and pump-out records should be required. Similar inspections should be required of any restaurants or municipal waste lines within 250' of the lake.

There is no shortage of summer homes whose owners have no idea if they even have a 'real' septic system, where it is located, or even care if it has ever been pumped out. Others have grey water dumping into the lake.

As unpopular for the politicians and expensive for the property owners, the sources of leachate can be located.
OMG, let's report in to the government what time we go to bed at night and what time we get up in the morning.
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Old 10-31-2023, 03:32 PM   #27
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Wow, people really seem to want to reach here....

The idea that every lake front home needs an inspection, is logistically not practical. However good the idea might be. On top of which there is no guarantee that a system passing at year n will continue to pass n+M years into the future.

There are however things people can do....I still see many homeowners and even some landscape companies blowing leaves into the lake... While this number had dwindled I still see evidence of it. This is an education mater, and maybe eventually something that could carry a fine.

Requiring new development along the water to create a more natural buffer at the lake shore....

Stop allowing even perched beaches, the beach sand most people use is not good for the lake, and regardless of how well the beach is created there is always a leaching effect.

Focusing on the smaller things through education is IMHO the way to go....
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Old 10-31-2023, 03:50 PM   #28
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I am all for whatever needs to be or can be done to save the lake even if it costs me some money but are leaves really a significant part of the problem? I would think that millions upon millions of leaves have been falling into the lake forever and the amount blown into lake on purpose must be insignificant. A house with a big green lawn and minimal trees would seem to be a bigger issue than a wooded site dropping leaves.
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Old 10-31-2023, 06:06 PM   #29
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I am all for whatever needs to be or can be done to save the lake even if it costs me some money but are leaves really a significant part of the problem? I would think that millions upon millions of leaves have been falling into the lake forever and the amount blown into lake on purpose must be insignificant. A house with a big green lawn and minimal trees would seem to be a bigger issue than a wooded site dropping leaves.
You do know don't you that in the old days that there were many less trees and the grass fields where the cows ate went right to the lake???? From North Main St. you could easily see the lake.
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Old 10-31-2023, 06:25 PM   #30
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I doubt the leaves are. But it is a waste. I take extra leaves onto my property because as they compost I get the added benefit without any cost to me.

It seems to be more a cumulative effect of lots of factors.

Education has been ongoing for years, and stopping the affect of new development isn't going to fix an existing problem. You could stop all new development... double education efforts... and we will still see the current trend continue. Inertia has taken over.
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Old 10-31-2023, 06:27 PM   #31
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The idea that every lake front home needs an inspection, is logistically not practical. However good the idea might be. On top of which there is no guarantee that a system passing at year n will continue to pass n+M years into the future.
Yet we know that every septic needs to be pumped/maintained periodically, and that many owners ignore this. We should be able to require that every homeowner pump on a schedule that makes sense for that home. This does not need to be some big government intrusion, people just need to call their septic guy once every few years.
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Old 10-31-2023, 06:34 PM   #32
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I am all for whatever needs to be or can be done to save the lake even if it costs me some money but are leaves really a significant part of the problem? I would think that millions upon millions of leaves have been falling into the lake forever and the amount blown into lake on purpose must be insignificant. A house with a big green lawn and minimal trees would seem to be a bigger issue than a wooded site dropping leaves.
You do know don't you that in the old days that there were many less trees and the grass fields where the cows ate went right to the lake???? From North Main St. you could easily see the lake.
So maybe the State could make you rip down all the houses and bring back the cows.
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Old 10-31-2023, 06:36 PM   #33
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Yet we know that every septic needs to be pumped/maintained periodically, and that many owners ignore this. We should be able to require that every homeowner pump on a schedule that makes sense for that home. This does not need to be some big government intrusion, people just need to call their septic guy once every few years.
Actually, they call me. Or more accurately they send me a post card with the date of my last pump out and a recommendation based on the results at that time.
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Old 10-31-2023, 09:53 PM   #34
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All good comments, but think of this...DES is allowing one waterbody to pollute another. This problem in Kanasatka has been known for a number of years and is getting worse. There are treatment options...some better than others...but so far doing nothing is winning the race while the Lake Kanasatka folks have been trying to ferret out root causes. The nutrient level needs to be attacked hard by DES while the root causes are investigated and located. Time is of the essence, as pollution in Blackey Cove will expand to other areas of Winni. if left untreated. It is easier to mitigate it at the source and the time to start is long since past.
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Old 10-31-2023, 10:34 PM   #35
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Default Lake Smart?

Is your place Lake Smart? Check out the Lake Smart program at NHLAKES.org. Even if you don't qualify now, you can have a sense of direction.
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Old 11-01-2023, 04:07 AM   #36
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Lightbulb Think Big...

We've forgotten that the Big Lake falls within "The Winnipesaukee Basin"? (And that NOT all waste arrives in the lake through home septic systems--but from boats).

All leachates follow gravity from homes at higher elevations than just the lakefront mansions. I've noticed a second tier of home-building behind the usual McMansions. (One within a stone's-throw of me can be rented-out to as many as five families at once!)

Home septic system designs were based on Massachusetts models, a state whose soil is comprised of much less granite than New Hampshire's.

The comprehensive answer is the routing all basin-wide waste waters. How else to exclude dishwasher soaps and water-softening salts from our collective leachate?

Hard to believe, but some here assailed my years-earlier answer of sending all septic systems' discharges to the sewage plant in Franklin--even if that meant that submerged pipelines must be sent across the lake's deepest parts. If Franklin is at full capacity, that must also be addressed.

If NH had started a Federal grant process back then, this poisoning of our lakewaters would be old news. (Instead of the usual periodic distress signals).

Sure, some "spot-cleansing" would be necessary among the entire Winnipesaukee Basin's warm and shallow areas, but more shading of these areas using conifers (particularly White Pine) should be encouraged--if not mandated. (Deciduous tree-leaves make up much of the lake's "phosphorus-laden sediments").

Any other answer will be comprised of half-measures.

Last edited by ApS; 11-01-2023 at 04:36 AM. Reason: Franklin's full capacity...
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Old 11-01-2023, 04:22 AM   #37
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We've forgotten that the Big Lake falls within "The Winnipesaukee Basin"? (And that NOT all waste arrives in the lake through home septic systems).

All leachates follow gravity from homes at higher elevations than just the lakefront mansions. I've noticed a second tier of home-building behind the usual McMansions. (One within a stone's-throw of me has been rented-out to as many as five families at once!)

Home septic system designs were based on Massachusetts models, a state whose soil is comprised of much less granite than New Hampshire's.

The comprehensive answer is the routing all basin-wide waste waters. How else to exclude dishwasher soaps and water-softening salts from our collective leachate?

Hard to believe, but some here assailed my years-earlier answer of sending all septic systems' discharges to the sewage plant in Franklin--even if that meant that submerged pipelines must be sent across the lake's deepest parts. If NH had started a Federal grant process back then, this poisoning of our lakewaters would be old news. (Instead of the usual periodic distress signals).

Sure, some "spot-cleaning" would be necessary among the entire Winnipesaukee Basin's warm and shallow areas, but more shading of these areas using conifers (particularly White Pine) should be encouraged--if not mandated. (Deciduous tree-leaves make up much of the lake's "phosphorus-laden sediments".

Any other answer will be comprised of half-measures.
Except the Franklin plant was at full capacity and couldn't take any more.
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Old 11-01-2023, 08:04 AM   #38
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NH Lakes over 10 acres belong to the state.


https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files...6-20230125.pdf

https://legiscan.com/NH/text/HB276/2023

https://kanasatka.org/cyanobacteria/
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Old 11-01-2023, 08:27 AM   #39
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Default Kanasatka Green

Good discussion here. The green water is getting people's attention much more than predictions about what could happen. My opinion is that education is the most effective preventative. Governments can develop best practices, fund educational programs and mandate things like septic inspections when transferring ownership, but can't get down to the level where it matters. That responsibility belongs to each property owner, on the shoreline and within the watershed.

The green of Kanasatka is massive. Here is a screen show showing part of the problem and a link to a panorama where you can scroll around to see the rest.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/72HufD2upCSdAi2BA
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Old 11-01-2023, 10:01 AM   #40
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Does anyone know if a bloom has also occurred in Wakondah Pond? If no then the culprit is most likely to tied directly into Kanatsaka and being a relatively small body of water it should be fairly easy to locate the source of the pollution.
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Old 11-01-2023, 10:11 AM   #41
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A few towns in NH have enacted health ordinances to require regular maintenance and inspections (if system is so old it is not a state approved design) for their waterfront districts.

While Iím not often in favor of more regulations at the local level in this case itís helping a town to protect its tax base and helping lakefront owners to protect the value of their property.

Thinking out loud I might not even be against a state mandate to require lakefront properties to maintain their systems. The state has done such things, such as ďforcingĒ ADU (accessory dwelling unit) zoning on all NH towns.

https://www.deering.nh.us/sites/g/fi..._ordinance.pdf

https://www.chesterfield.nh.gov/buil...tem-regulation
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Old 11-01-2023, 10:18 AM   #42
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Except the Franklin plant was at full capacity and couldn't take any more.
I'm curious about the source of that information.
Locally, when our wastewater treatment facility reaches 80% of capacity there is a requirement to increase capacity. The WWTF is supported by user fees, so this is not a tax issue. I would expect the same from the EPA and DES oversight of the Franklin facility. In the old days, if there was overflow of untreated sewage into the river, there were fines and other repercussions.
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Old 11-01-2023, 10:48 AM   #43
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I remember Jeanne discussing it on our PublicTV channel. She sits on the WRBP advisory board for Belmont.

Something about the need for more money to cover delayed maintenance and the system seeing development pressure needing a future expansion.

Even when they pump my septic, I think the waste gets transported to Franklin to be processed.

The State could mandate a pumping threshold... it is usually a three to five year period depending on the condition found each time it is pumped.

But I find it hard to believe that they have large amounts of septic leaching without E.coli being detected. Fecal contamination is usually one of the primary signs of a septic system failure.

I think the amount of, and rather heavy, rainfall events are transporting nutrients into the lake bodies, and a mixture of natural and man-made factors are stirring the sediment releasing it.

In the winter, even natural upwelling would be a factor.

I doubt the State Legislature will take any action... or at least any significant action. But spending more on education is also doubtful to make any significant inroad to the situation.
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Old 11-01-2023, 11:58 AM   #44
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I'm not a big fan of government intervention but these things require lots of money. Most private individuals won't give up their $$$$$$ freely to help the masses, only when it helps them directly.
Most of the people that own these McMansions will spend tons of money to beautify their property but won't cough up a buck to help the overall health of the lake without being forced to.
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Old 11-01-2023, 12:09 PM   #45
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I'm curious about the source of that information.
Locally, when our wastewater treatment facility reaches 80% of capacity there is a requirement to increase capacity. The WWTF is supported by user fees, so this is not a tax issue. I would expect the same from the EPA and DES oversight of the Franklin facility. In the old days, if there was overflow of untreated sewage into the river, there were fines and other repercussions.
When Wolfeboro was shut down by the state they had to find a solution as to what to do with the effluent. One of the possible options was Franklin, however, that didn't work out because it didn't have the capacity.
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Old 11-01-2023, 12:55 PM   #46
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I'm not a big fan of government intervention but these things require lots of money. Most private individuals won't give up their $$$$$$ freely to help the masses, only when it helps them directly.

Most of the people that own these McMansions will spend tons of money to beautify their property but won't cough up a buck to help the overall health of the lake without being forced to.
I think you will find the issue isn’t the McMansions. They are mostly new(er) construction with newer, state approved systems. The issue is the older camps w/cesspools & Gerry rigged systems. (I heard of one that was a 55 gal drum w/effluent pumped to a real small sand bed.). I think the idea previously presented of starting to police all systems that are not state approved and don’t just limit it to waterfront is a good one.


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Old 11-01-2023, 01:01 PM   #47
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How about a mandate requiring every waterfront property to have a certified inspection of the home's septic system (w/ dated pictures); at the expense of the homeowner? Pump-out records, waste pipe integrity, current flow capacity test, leach field condition, and pump-out records should be required. Similar inspections should be required of any restaurants or municipal waste lines within 250' of the lake.
In March, New Durham passed new regs to enable most of the above ideas. Time will tell how well it works but should help to protect Merrymeeting, and Winnipesaukee as most Merrymeeting water eventually passes to Alton Bay.

Simply stated, any septic system that does not have an approved plan of record recorded with the town, or that has been in use for 20 or more years, needs to have a certified installer inspect the system to certify that it's working as designed.
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Old 11-01-2023, 06:47 PM   #48
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I think you will find that it is not septic systems.
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Old 11-01-2023, 06:59 PM   #49
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I think you will find the issue isn’t the McMansions. They are mostly new(er) construction with newer, state approved systems. The issue is the older camps w/cesspools & Gerry rigged systems. (I heard of one that was a 55 gal drum w/effluent pumped to a real small sand bed.). I think the idea previously presented of starting to police all systems that are not state approved and don’t just limit it to waterfront is a good one.


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Natural run off is one of the biggest destroyers of water quality and those big green lawns with lots of pesticides is a bigger issue than the old small camp septic systems. With all the heavy rain we had this season it increased the problem.

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Old 11-02-2023, 03:20 AM   #50
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Question Million$ Misappropriated...?

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APS;

This is definitely Blackey Cove. If you do a Google Earth search you can clearly see the similarities...

Dan
Thanks. I used a "Google Lens" search to find similarly-affected lakes.

What appeared were distressed lakes in the northern tier of US states. (Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York, Vermont, NH, Maine). States south of us didn't appear overly affected. I haven't searched Canadian lakes yet.

Which brings me to my Florida county's approach: Because of tourism decline due to disappointing fishing catches, my County's Board got a grant to replace ALL septic systems with "E-1 pumps". Local ocean waters were to be cleansed of poor--or absent--methods. Costs were added to our water bill--effectively doubling them!

Anchored visitors in this County are already required to maintain a log of pump-outs for weekly Marine Patrol inspections or pay fines.

Five years later, now that 99% of waste facilities are "fixed", I asked an activist neighbor (a fishing guide to Gulf- and Atlantic-ocean waters) how things had "progressed".

Disappointed, he said the problem was not our local waters, but the Mississippi River watershed!

(Whose source is the northern tier of US states)...
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Old 11-02-2023, 04:13 AM   #51
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If only the water fleas ate it....
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Old 11-02-2023, 04:59 AM   #52
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Another possible cause to consider are wake boats:

https://www.sierraclub.org/minnesota...nd-10000-lakes
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Old 11-02-2023, 06:53 AM   #53
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Another possible cause to consider are wake boats:

https://www.sierraclub.org/minnesota...nd-10000-lakes
Wake boats are a huge problem. The study cited above briefly mentions New Hampshire. After reading the article, it seems like we are behind on increasing wake boat regulation to help protect the lake.
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Old 11-02-2023, 09:29 AM   #54
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I think you will find that it is not septic systems.
I agree that they are not the total cause but, they are part of it. You may be able to solve the “green lawn” problem thru education (but I doubt it) but there is also phosphates and other nutrients from entering thru bad septic systems and I don’t believe education will correct this either.


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Old 11-02-2023, 10:57 AM   #55
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A septic system failure would result in fecal contamination that the DES would need to issue an alert on and immediate action would need to be taken.

What causes the blooms is nutrient loading.

Nutrient loading can be the result of nutrients that are trapped in the bottom soils and released during an upwelling (which is why it can happen below the ice), or any time that water is ''stirred'' by either weather or other activities.

Surface run-off is the most noted nutrient loading factor, and can come from a lot longer distance than one might expect, especially during times of heavy and frequent run-off.

In domestic waste water, this would be most often from things like laundry detergent. It contains a lot of whitener (phosphorus)... that maybe overloading the soil around the leach beds... but also may be just running to a grey water system. The soil during heavy and frequent precipitation will ''wash'' the nutrients from the soil.

The same thing happens with our raised garden and container planters, just in a truncated timeline due to the smaller volume of soil/potting medium being able to harbor less.

So it may not be directly related to the lakefront property... the lake front property at one time being the ''last defense''. It may be travelling down our roads and entering through any spot that it can enter a stream, brook, or intermittent run-off point.

We may be just seeing the beginning of the outcome of decades of nutrient loading.
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Old 11-02-2023, 11:07 AM   #56
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A septic system failure would result in fecal contamination that the DES would need to issue an alert on and immediate action would need to be taken.

What causes the blooms is nutrient loading.

Nutrient loading can be the result of nutrients that are trapped in the bottom soils and released during an upwelling (which is why it can happen below the ice), or any time that water is ''stirred'' by either weather or other activities.

Surface run-off is the most noted nutrient loading factor, and can come from a lot longer distance than one might expect, especially during times of heavy and frequent run-off.

In domestic waste water, this would be most often from things like laundry detergent. It contains a lot of whitener (phosphorus)... that maybe overloading the soil around the leach beds... but also may be just running to a grey water system. The soil during heavy and frequent precipitation will ''wash'' the nutrients from the soil.

The same thing happens with our raised garden and container planters, just in a truncated timeline due to the smaller volume of soil/potting medium being able to harbor less.

So it may not be directly related to the lakefront property... the lake front property at one time being the ''last defense''. It may be travelling down our roads and entering through any spot that it can enter a stream, brook, or intermittent run-off point.

We may be just seeing the beginning of the outcome of decades of nutrient loading.
Agreed, and more development means less natural filtration and more nutrient loading.
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Old 11-02-2023, 01:12 PM   #57
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Nutrient loading can be the result of nutrients that are trapped in the bottom soils and released during an upwelling (which is why it can happen below the ice), or any time that water is ''stirred'' by either weather or other activities.
Does this mean we're creating more problems using bubblers to protect docks? I always wondered if these circulators are raising the overall temp of the lake, and is there a long term impact.
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Old 11-02-2023, 02:30 PM   #58
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Bubblers that pump cold air into the Lake to move water or circulators should expose the Lake to colder temperatures, not warm the Lake. Ice acts as an insulator against the cold of winter below the ice, so anything that exposes warmer deep water to cold air should lower, not raise, the Lake temperature. In any case, the net effect of all these devices is trivial compared to the large body of water represented by the Lake.
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Old 11-02-2023, 02:30 PM   #59
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From John Mercier: "Nutrient loading can be the result of nutrients that are trapped in the bottom soils and released during an upwelling (which is why it can happen below the ice), or any time that water is ''stirred'' by either weather or other activities."

Does this mean we're creating more problems using bubblers to protect docks? I always wondered if these circulators are raising the overall temp of the lake, and is there a long term impact.
No, bubblers have little impact.
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Old 11-02-2023, 02:45 PM   #60
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Default Blackey River

Here's a photo from 360 feet above the stream that feeds from Lake Kanasatka into Blackey Cove. Looks like there are sandbags holding back the slime. The second photo shows where the green water changes to blue.
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Old 11-02-2023, 04:09 PM   #61
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A septic system failure would result in fecal contamination that the DES would need to issue an alert on and immediate action would need to be taken.
Not necessarily. The state monitors E. coli at swimming beaches where 88 E. coli/100 ml is the max in any single sample. For recreational waters not designated a swimming area the magic number in a single sample is 406/100 ml. A result less than 406 would not attract the states attention, assuming that they were even sampling in that area, and would still point to potential infiltration from a faulty system(s) that would/could add nutrients, including phosphates, to surface water.

Anyway, my original point is that all potential sources need to be addressed. The balance of your last post seems to say this.



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Old 11-02-2023, 05:41 PM   #62
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That's a beaver dam, not sure if someone added something on top of it, but if water gets through, the slime gets through.
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Old 11-02-2023, 06:53 PM   #63
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Bubblers that pump cold air into the Lake to move water or circulators should expose the Lake to colder temperatures, not warm the Lake. Ice acts as an insulator against the cold of winter below the ice, so anything that exposes warmer deep water to cold air should lower, not raise, the Lake temperature. In any case, the net effect of all these devices is trivial compared to the large body of water represented by the Lake.
I think as another localized source, even if they were... we should notice a bloom always near the bubbler - which doesn't seem to be the case.

Nutrient loads are strongest near a sourcing. The blloms in various parts of the lake seem less likely to be a point source and more a dynamic of generality.

Imagine that I was able to run a dye through the bubbler; you would see that right near the bubbles surfacing the dye would be vary noticeable, but as it diffused through the larger body, it would be impossible to see.

The bubbler would need to be moving the nutrient load from the soil toward the surface.
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Old 11-02-2023, 07:24 PM   #64
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Not necessarily. The state monitors E. coli at swimming beaches where 88 E. coli/100 ml is the max in any single sample. For recreational waters not designated a swimming area the magic number in a single sample is 406/100 ml. A result less than 406 would not attract the states attention, assuming that they were even sampling in that area, and would still point to potential infiltration from a faulty system(s) that would/could add nutrients, including phosphates, to surface water.

Anyway, my original point is that all potential sources need to be addressed. The balance of your last post seems to say this.



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A functioning system... running perfectly as designed... will still nutrient load.
That is why the old saying ''the grass is always greener over the septic system.'' The part of the system they are talking about is the leach field. It provides nutrients and water to the surrounding soil, something that turfgrass loves.

Heavy and frequent rain would upset the designed ''perc''.
Saturated soils would allow the nutrient-laden water to move sideways... though not as fast as surface run-off.

But what I was noting, when the bloom dies off and sinks to the bottom of the lake... the nutrients are sent right to the lake bed as decomposition takes place. They never get removed from the system, just concentrate over time.

This is like gathering all my leaves together and composting them. Instead of the nutrients being spread all over the property, I have concentrated them in my compost and spread them in my raised beds.
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Old 11-02-2023, 07:35 PM   #65
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Default Cyanobacteria problem

This thread could go on forever, and never solve the problem. Everybody has their idea of a problem, but no one seems to have identified THE problem. I am not a water-issues scientist, nor any other academically-trained professional schooled in this subject, but, as someone who has lived most of his life on the shores of Winnipesaukee, I feel safe in saying that any and all solutions must be explored in hopes of finding a cure, because, if not, the consequences will be terminal to the region. Simply put, if the Lake "goes", so "goes" all the , tourist-oriented businesses, and the entire Lakes Region economy.

If mandated septic system testing is a part of the answer - DO IT, if regulations of fertilizers and other landscape procedures within a certain distance of the Lake is part of the answer - DO IT, if boating control in certain fragile shoreline areas is part of the answer - DO IT. This problem will not go away on its own, it needs to be confronted and managed.

Now, before anyone gets too upset with me, I freely admit I do not have any answers - but, I do know doing nothing is not even part of the answer.
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Old 11-02-2023, 08:56 PM   #66
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The problem with the lake is too many people and too much money !
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Old 11-03-2023, 02:36 AM   #67
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Red face Minnesota: The Forgotten "Northern-Tier State"...

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Originally Posted by John Mercier
"Nutrient loading can be the result of nutrients that are trapped in the bottom soils and released during an upwelling (which is why it can happen below the ice), or any time that water is ''stirred'' by either weather or other activities."
"Nutrient loading" is another term for "sequestration": which means that compounds of primarily nitrogen and phosphorus "lie in wait" to be stored, distributed or disturbed at a later time. (E.g., "carbon sequestration").

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Another possible cause to consider are wake boats:

https://www.sierraclub.org/minnesota...nd-10000-lakes
Excerpts from the above article regarding Wake Boats:

1) "The downward angle of the propwash from wake boats causes algae blooms by stirring up sediment and reintroducing sequestered phosphorus and nitrates into the water column. Lake water is warmed by this increased turbidity, making aquatic ecosystems less hospitable for native flora and fauna. Often native plants are uprooted and fish nests destroyed".

2) "Some shorelines are naturally hardened and able to withstand wake boats operating nearby..."

A suggestion for the ultimate boating use for The Broads?

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Old 11-03-2023, 04:25 AM   #68
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I haven't seen anybody mention the geese. I never saw so much ---- in my life and their population is growing by leaps and bounds.
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Old 11-03-2023, 06:46 AM   #69
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The problem with the lake is too many people and too much money !
Yes. This is a large factor along with a non caring attitude some possess.
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Old 11-03-2023, 11:07 AM   #70
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Sort of.
Sequestration is when the process by which nutrient loading is stored.

When I collect my leaves and transport them to the compost pile, I am nutrient loading my compost pile. As my pile matures, it is sequestering the nutrients.

So the run-off is nutrient loading, and the lake bottom is trying to sequester the nutrients.

When a bloom occurs, but is swept downstream... the nutrient load moves. When it dies and sinks to the bottom, it moves from suspension and is sequestered in the lake bottom. When we disturb it, we remove it from sequestration and make it active once more.

But if no new nutrients were entered into the system... no nutrient loading would occur.
The existing nutrients would move from sequestration, to active , and back again in a continuous cycle based on the level of disturbance.

We've nutrient loaded the system to the point that natural process is overturned... and thus the blooms.

Same thing happens in my garden... as my raised beds lose nutrients to the plants, unless I return those nutrients with the compost, my production drops. Excess nutrients, if I am not careful, can be washed out by the heavy and frequent rainfall. Because my surrounding ground ''perc''s so well, that nutrient transfer simply makes the weeds around the raised beds grow better.
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Old 11-03-2023, 11:10 AM   #71
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I haven't seen anybody mention the geese. I never saw so much ---- in my life and their population is growing by leaps and bounds.
Lawns. They love the lawn at Middleton Meredith. And it is right in the flyway between the bay and Waukewan.

Luckily, run-off is captured in our holding pond toward the front.
You can see how well the vegetation grows there.
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Old 11-03-2023, 05:38 PM   #72
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We can run around the block a hundred times and find a lot of culprits. I went to water quality meeting a couple years ago and was shocked to find there are still town drainage basins that dump into into the lake. Impervious barriers are a problem. Look at center harbor for example. Basically itís uphill from the dock to the grocery store and everything is tar from the water up. So all the nutrients wash right over the tar to the lake. Anyone fertilizing up there is contributing. What they need is a ban on fertilizer within x miles of the lake. Shut it down. You get caught big time fines. That includes landscaping companies.
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Old 11-03-2023, 05:55 PM   #73
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The problem you would be creating is X-miles from.
It would be easier just to ban chemical fertilizer. The State has banned other items for environmental reasons. No body really cares that MbTe is no longer causing a water quality issue... we didn't hear an outcry when it was removed.

Laundry detergents would be a bit harder from a purely political sense.

That would lower the additional loading, but the sequestration limits may have already been hit. So I am not sure how to handle stirring the bottom up releasing the nutrients back into the system could be resolved cost effectively.
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Old 11-03-2023, 08:09 PM   #74
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Default When does the bloom dissipate?

I am also shocked that this bloom is occurring in October/November. I always thought these could only happen in the summer when the water was warm. I am evidently uneducated about this topic. When will the bloom die off? Is there anything that can hasten its demise at least on a seasonal basis? Can a bloom be traced back to a specific source or is it a combination of factors throughout the waterbody. Blackey Cove is a nice spot. Sad to see. Have these blooms occurred frequently in this area?
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Old 11-03-2023, 08:36 PM   #75
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They have reported them even in the winter... sometimes even under the ice.
We just don't pay as much attention to them at that time.

It will die off when it runs out of nutrients.
At that point, it will sink to the lake floor and decay with the nutrients being sequestered into the lake bed.
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Old 11-04-2023, 10:05 AM   #76
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Question Can't Identify The Solution?

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The problem with the lake is too many people and too much money !
In 2017, Blackey Cove residents missed the solution to their own pollution problem:

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...3&postcount=19

Moultonborough needs a recreation center--first...
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Old 11-04-2023, 10:21 AM   #77
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The solution isn't to expend more money.

Nor does having extra finances mean that you are creating more of the problem than someone else.
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Old 11-04-2023, 04:34 PM   #78
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Not saying there is no issue…but after doing a little research, I have found some instances of fresh water lakes / ponds that have serious Cyanobacteria blooms that have no camps on its shoreline and are far removed from any man made influence for its cause and occur through natural causes….apparently in some instances Mother Nature is the cause…. Not saying this is the reason here, just food for thought…

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Old 11-04-2023, 11:26 PM   #79
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Nutrient loading and sequestration are natural process that age a water body.
Their concern is that you are aging the lake faster and that may have some economic consequences.

By lowering water quality, several different economic interests see declines.
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Old 11-06-2023, 05:53 AM   #80
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Default Advancing Lake Eutrification...

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The solution isn't to expend more money. Nor does having extra finances mean that you are creating more of the problem than someone else.
Canada's government has given Manitoba 27 years to clean up the world's most blue-green
lake. The cost will be in the billions of Canadian dollars.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...2013-1.1326764

Cyanobacterial toxins are mainly released from the blue-green algae when the cells of the bacteria break open or die. Their destruction can be caused by cooler weather, rainfall and windy conditions. Some of the toxins can attack the liver or the nervous system, while some will only irritate the skin.

"Failing to clean up after pets and activities along a shore, such as when homeowners chop down trees and then fertilize grass or flowers they've planted, can be harmful as well.

Trying to control a nutrient problem is more complicated than you might think, Schindler says.

'If you let a lake get too far, I'd say it's equivalent to trying to get toothpaste back into a tube.'"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/how-...akes-1.1326761

1) Also found was that nitrogen isn't the culprit that phosphorus is.

2) After 67 years, I've now been surrounded by cottages with deep-green lawns. (Including one "residence" that can accommodate five families).

3) Detecting sequestered phosphorus in knee-deep water can't be difficult. Perhaps an ambitious high-schooler can provide a "kitchen compound" that will precipitate phosphorus out of a lakewater sample?

4) This forum was paying attention in 2017:

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

5) Anyone got peripheral neuropathy (beside# me?)
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Old 11-06-2023, 07:58 PM   #81
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You can remove it from a water sample using RO or distillation.

But the lakes will naturally flush themselves of the nutrients much the same way that a human body does.

You just have to get to the point where the natural removal method is greater than the nutrient loading.

Have you ever seen the Scott's commercial ''Feed Your Lawn''. The reason is that without nutrient loading, a lawn will slowly create depleted soil.

It is one of the reasons that we taught to rotate crops and use cover crops.

If they severely restrict nutrients being added to the lake, the lake will heal itself.

But the political will isn't there.
No sense in going after septic systems, if boaters at sand bars are urinating and defecating directly into the water... or going ashore in wooded areas and doing so right next to the lake.
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Old 11-06-2023, 08:09 PM   #82
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Interesting article on possible treatment next May...

https://original.newsbreak.com/@news...sediment-issue
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Old 11-06-2023, 09:29 PM   #83
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Default Too much of a good thing

The lake is similar to a huge toilet bowl that flushes every winter. The pursuit of pleasure at any cost has pushed to the point that the lake is sick and there are no magic fixes to the damage which is increasing exponentially from human overuse and abuse of the resource.

I've already said it here before.... Google St. Albans Bay on Lake Champlain if you want to see what cyanobacteria does to property values and recreational activity. The "me first" mentality as best shown by Braun Bay, Mosquito Bridge and businesses that encourage patrons to use the lake as a toilet negatively impact water quality. The lake will give back what we collectively put into it. Without water quality there is nothing.

The situation has advanced from when I posted what is below 3 years ago. Laugh a minute while we watch the days of Camelot slide past. I saw a crawfish trap in a thrift store this weekend. Who knew they would become museum pieces now because there are fewer crawfish.

No large agency will fix the problem. At least we haven't made it to needing to put huge aerators in the lake which they have in at least one lake in Vermont.

The suburban need for lush green lawns speaks for itself.

I spent many summer days floating and skiing in Blackey's Cove in the 70s. I'm dismayed at how quickly we collectively are killing the lake.

Pave paradise put up a parking lot. Below is from 2020.

It's all about the feces and urine from humans and animals. You may think that I'm full of feces that's fine aren't we all? Haters will hate and I'm not hugging trees I like nature and powersports. The organism I picked up comes from cysts in feces (duck, geese, mink, dog, human) which remain viable in lake water for over 50 days. Common infection in dogs and cats.
All anyone has to do is wipe their mouth or swallow some water and you can intake the cysts. Phosphorus and Nitrogen are in urine and feces. When one person takes that innocent pee in the middle of the lake it matters. When 500 people take that innocent pee in Braun Bay it matters. When people squat in the channel to pee all day (I've seen it) it matters. Cyanobacteria which is toxic and associated with ALS (see Mascoma Lake DHMC) is in Kanasatka this summer. Once introduced it thrives on Nitrogen and Phosphorus. Kanasatka is 9' above Winnipesaukee so where do you think it is headed? If you have good flow, low population and low animal populations you are obviously better off. Point is the lake is taking a pounding and without the opportunity to flush over the winter it wouldn't be much better than Lilly Pond. Learned my lesson the hard way the lake is far from pristine even in a Covid year. More interesting reading google Long Lake in Maine I don' think we're there yet.
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Old 11-07-2023, 07:51 AM   #84
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An article in the Laconia Sun about water levels also mentions pollution issues.

They have a picture of the lake level sign under the Weirs bridge. I have been told by someone at the state that the sign is off by a couple of inches. Maybe one of these years they can put a new clean sign there and be sure it is at the correct level. The sign that has been there for many years looks a little rough.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...080d2e1b2.html
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Old 11-07-2023, 10:33 AM   #85
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Interesting article on possible treatment next May...

https://original.newsbreak.com/@news...sediment-issue
One of the lakes we dive down in Pennsylvania had a bad algae bloom in August/September, and did an alum treatment. The goal, of course, was different -- to improve visibility for divers (as this is the lake's only use). But the drone video of the treatment, and the resulting improvement in visibility/reduction in algae was remarkable.

I had no idea the treatment lasts for years.

And for those who want to see the treatment process: https://lancasteronline.com/video/wi...5d9af9325.html
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Old 11-08-2023, 10:29 AM   #86
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Willow Springs Lake looks to be about 1/2 mile long by a 1/4 mile wide (canít find anything about depth) and cost 80k to treat. It is an interesting option but I donít see NH ponying up the $$ necessary to treat Winni for phosphorus.


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Old 11-08-2023, 10:59 AM   #87
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Willow Springs Lake looks to be about 1/2 mile long by a 1/4 mile wide (canít find anything about depth) and cost 80k to treat. It is an interesting option but I donít see NH ponying up the $$ necessary to treat Winni for phosphorus.
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Agreed. Just sharing to show how it's done, since alum was mentioned as an option for Blackey Cove. Very expensive. But for a place like Willow Springs, which gets 100% of its revenue from paying divers, it's a worthwhile investment.

Another issue with Blackey would be that it's fed by Kanasatka, which has its own cyanobacteria issues. You'd think that the benefits of any treatment might be reversed by the inflow from Kanasatka. Just a hunch.
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Old 11-08-2023, 11:24 AM   #88
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I live on Blackey Cove and from my personal observations, by-in-large the recent cyanobacteria blooms we experience are from the dam outflow from Kanasatka that drains into Blackey Cove. Since the state owns the water, the state DES is actually contributing to the blooms that spread into Blackey Cove.
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Old 11-08-2023, 11:53 AM   #89
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Since they mention fundraising... it seems the State is not going to take financial responsibility for the alum treatment.

DES can only due the Legislature has enacted.
The Legislature is the final responsibility on the issue.
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Old 11-08-2023, 01:22 PM   #90
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Since they mention fundraising... it seems the State is not going to take financial responsibility for the alum treatment.

DES can only due the Legislature has enacted.
The Legislature is the final responsibility on the issue.
Don't point at the legislature as the problem, that is just wrong, because it is cyclical process... DES has to report that there are issues that the need legislative action to deal with.

People continue to want to blame figure heads.... but the reality is things are often more system level, then not.....

With that said, everyone that has access to and owns property around the lake needs to be willing to help with dealing with the issue that has been created. As a homeowner, the value of your property is directly linked to the value of the body of water you abut....
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Old 11-08-2023, 01:36 PM   #91
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Don't point at the legislature as the problem, that is just wrong, because it is cyclical process... DES has to report that there are issues that the need legislative action to deal with.

People continue to want to blame figure heads.... but the reality is things are often more system level, then not.....

With that said, everyone that has access to and owns property around the lake needs to be willing to help with dealing with the issue that has been created. As a homeowner, the value of your property is directly linked to the value of the body of water you abut....
That's true the value of our property depends on the lake, but we do pay an awful lot in taxes now. You think we should pay more?
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Old 11-08-2023, 01:52 PM   #92
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That's true the value of our property depends on the lake, but we do pay an awful lot in taxes now. You think we should pay more?
What I think is that lake front property owners have a vested interest in the quality of the lake. And as a lake front property owner, I am well aware of how much taxes they pay. With that said, paying more in taxes is at all what I was referencing... although it could seem that way.....

Think of it as upkeep to your home and its value, you pay to keep your house painted and looking nice, to keep your grass green, trees trimmed etc. Whether you pay to have someone do it your you do it yourself there is cost associated with these things. So why does it seem so illogical that you might need to pay for the up keep to a body of water that you have rights to based on your properties location. Think of it as an association.

In this case lets call it the Lake Kanasatka association... each lake front home owner owns rights to a certain percentage of the lake, and the state owns the rest.... Now everyone can point fingers and blame others.... But If I want my home to be worth the most, it would make sense to work with the state to find a solution..... It may require money from the state, It could even require some money from individual homeowners... OR it could be that the homeowners and state, find grounds that will allow for federal funding and grants, and it ends up costing the state and the homeowners nothing.....

What I am trying to preach unsuccessfully it would seem is that, the solution doesn't solely lie on the shoulders of the town or the state, but on all the stake holders collectively.... And because Lake Kanasatka flows into Lake Winnipesaukee, which flows into Lake Oppeche, Lake Winnisquam, and down the Winnipesaukee river.... we can expanded the affected are out to all those home owners have something at stake too......

People loose sight of the fact that if the water quality of the Lakes Region deteriorates, we all have a lot to loose...
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Old 11-08-2023, 02:18 PM   #93
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Don't point at the legislature as the problem, that is just wrong, because it is cyclical process... DES has to report that there are issues that the need legislative action to deal with.

People continue to want to blame figure heads.... but the reality is things are often more system level, then not.....

With that said, everyone that has access to and owns property around the lake needs to be willing to help with dealing with the issue that has been created. As a homeowner, the value of your property is directly linked to the value of the body of water you abut....
I think I am justified in doing so...

From NHPR:

"Cyanobacteria

The New Hampshire House of Representatives passed a bill Tuesday that would direct the stateís Department of Environmental Services to make a plan to prevent the growth of harmful algae called cyanobacteria in New Hampshire waters.

Cyanobacteria, or blue-green algae, can multiply quickly in water that is warm, slow-moving, and rich in nutrients from fertilizer or sewage. The toxic algae can have harmful health effects for humans, causing rashes and respiratory and gastrointestinal issues. Dogs and other animals can suffer severe illness and death from cyanobacteria.

The first reports of cyanobacteria in New Hampshire happened in the 1960s, and state regulators began a new program to respond to public concerns about the increasing prevalence of cyanobacterial blooms in 2020.

New Hampshire DES asks Granite Staters to call with reports of cyanobacteria at 603-848-8094."

It was passed from DES to the Legislature in 2020. This is as far as the Legislature would go. HB276 -FN-A was retained in committee.
DES can not spend what is not funded; nor can they make any mitigation laws without legislative approval.
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Old 11-08-2023, 03:52 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by John Mercier View Post
I think I am justified in doing so...

From NHPR:

"Cyanobacteria

The New Hampshire House of Representatives passed a bill Tuesday that would direct the stateís Department of Environmental Services to make a plan to prevent the growth of harmful algae called cyanobacteria in New Hampshire waters.

Cyanobacteria, or blue-green algae, can multiply quickly in water that is warm, slow-moving, and rich in nutrients from fertilizer or sewage. The toxic algae can have harmful health effects for humans, causing rashes and respiratory and gastrointestinal issues. Dogs and other animals can suffer severe illness and death from cyanobacteria.

The first reports of cyanobacteria in New Hampshire happened in the 1960s, and state regulators began a new program to respond to public concerns about the increasing prevalence of cyanobacterial blooms in 2020.

New Hampshire DES asks Granite Staters to call with reports of cyanobacteria at 603-848-8094."

It was passed from DES to the Legislature in 2020. This is as far as the Legislature would go. HB276 -FN-A was retained in committee.
DES can not spend what is not funded; nor can they make any mitigation laws without legislative approval.
So I don't disagree in total with you pointing the blame at the legislature. But as mentioned the process is cyclical.... With out knowing anything about HB276-FN-A in 2020 its hard to understand the actions, and why that bill was retained in committee... But when that happens DES, should be working to get what they need, and trying to get the next steps to happen.

I have no problem blaming DES as much as the legislature.
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Old 11-08-2023, 04:21 PM   #95
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Everyone seems to agree that the condition of our lakes are getting worse .... at an ever increasing rate.
Does anyone wish to comment about how they view the lakes are improving with age? Anyone? Bueller?

Without being too Draconian; and as distasteful as encouraging more state control/interference would be, I would happily like to see a line item on my RE tax bill to support a program like this:

The state (DES) can go through their records and force property owners (within 250' of the lake AND having no record of an approved septic system) to update/replace their system within five years.
The state could provide low interest loans (with the property as secured collateral) for those who cannot afford the update/replacement.
After eight years, 'non-compliants' will have a lien placed on their property.
Records of 'pump-out' must be submitted to the state.

If something isn't done soon, we are going to regret having ever purchased our waterfront homes. It might take 5 years ...... it might take 50 years ..... might take 100; any way you clock it, the lake is dying. And its OUR responsibility to slow it's demise. I encourage everyone to write their state rep, demanding corrective action, before it's too late.


Just my two cents worth .......

Last edited by root1; 11-08-2023 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 11-08-2023, 06:36 PM   #96
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And while you think it is only the lakefront people who need to have compliant systems....I totally agree but feel it should be ALL property owners, not jsut lakefront....what is your plan for the numerous boaters who I see every weekend with lots of people and kids stop to allow people to get in the water to use the cove as a bathroom? Or the boaters who anchor all day and perform the same??? These folks are impacting things as well, and not in a favorable way. Oh, and as mentioned before, what about the geese?
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Old 11-08-2023, 09:20 PM   #98
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Nov 14, 2023, House: Executive Session: 11/14/2023 10:00 am LOB 210-211 HC 42


https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bil...&q=billVersion
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Old 11-08-2023, 10:35 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
So I don't disagree in total with you pointing the blame at the legislature. But as mentioned the process is cyclical.... With out knowing anything about HB276-FN-A in 2020 its hard to understand the actions, and why that bill was retained in committee... But when that happens DES, should be working to get what they need, and trying to get the next steps to happen.

I have no problem blaming DES as much as the legislature.
DES can only request... which they have for decades... the Legislature is the one that denies; and this was a pretty tame bill.

It is the restrictions that will need to occur to change direction that will be the hardest legislative pills to swallow.

Last edited by John Mercier; 11-08-2023 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 11-09-2023, 05:24 AM   #100
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And while you think it is only the lakefront people who need to have compliant systems....I totally agree but feel it should be ALL property owners, not jsut lakefront....what is your plan for the numerous boaters who I see every weekend with lots of people and kids stop to allow people to get in the water to use the cove as a bathroom? Or the boaters who anchor all day and perform the same??? These folks are impacting things as well, and not in a favorable way. Oh, and as mentioned before, what about the geese?
Well said! Thank you!!
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