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Old 09-20-2013, 07:44 AM   #101
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Two laws??? I don't think so, but it doesn't matter and we are not going to agree on these points, as I said, I'll be watching for those who think that the Formula guy had no fault in this. You have also ignored the fact the laserp said he was 150 feet from a mooring field and the Formula was going to pass between Laserp and the field, that is definitely not legal and breaks the 150 foot law twice....

So I don't agree with laserp making fun of formula owners' junk, and I think laserp probably was as irate as the formula guy in their confrontation after the near miss, but I get the feeling you are defending this guy because of the boat he drives.....
WOW! Been away for 10 days over seas, missed all this. I can't read it all now, but get the gist. Yes I was irate! Yes I failed to look behind me at the time I made a maneuver. That won't happen again. Yes the other guy was speeding, maybe 40 plus. He passed me within 20ft like I was standing still. Yes he was going to pass me on the starboard side, while I was 150 feet away from moored boats in a marina. I was still on plain maybe doing 20 when I saw him. I probably started pulling back on my throttle and maybe traveled 20 ft off my heading, it may have been 5 seconds...that's about it, from my change in speed and course. He was on a course to blow by me within 50 ft...at night. NO QUESTION. Put away your calculator and trust me on this one woodsie. Nothing personal taken.

OK - I did one thing wrong. Being stupid, I did not look behind me before I made a maneuver. I did look behind me minutes before and there was no boat in site, so my brain told me I was OK, thinking there is no way anyone could be anywhere near me. Never again.

The guy in the Formula was at fault, no question. My guess is he was looking elsewhere within those 5 seconds and not at the boat in front of him. Maybe he just didn't see me, I don't know.

What if I was stopping and turning because of something in the water, at night, that I couldn't see? a small boat, a log, a swimmer? Would it be my fault then?

I love Formula's I want one. I just see a lot of Formulas out there with a lot of power and it seems there is a higher percentage of them with irresponsible boaters in them.

Last edited by laserp; 09-20-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:17 AM   #102
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Thumbs down Barking up the wrong tree

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I just see a lot of Formulas out there with a lot of power and it seems there is a higher percentage of them with irresponsible boaters in them.
Huh? I take serious issue with this statement. Performance boat operators are by far the MOST responsible operators on this lake. Every bonehead, "irresponsible" move I see is made by someone operating a vessel other than a performance boat. Better re-think your claim.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:03 PM   #103
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Huh? I take serious issue with this statement. Performance boat operators are by far the MOST responsible operators on this lake. Every bonehead, "irresponsible" move I see is made by someone operating a vessel other than a performance boat. Better re-think your claim.
Yeah, this is where you are losing them laserp, better to say something like this: "I love Formulas and performance boat drivers in general, but this guy, he wasn't like those people, he must have just upgraded from a jet ski."


Ok, I'm kidding, just kidding I have 2 jet skis.
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:41 PM   #104
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Huh? I take serious issue with this statement. Performance boat operators are by far the MOST responsible operators on this lake. Every bonehead, "irresponsible" move I see is made by someone operating a vessel other than a performance boat. Better re-think your claim.
OK - just one guy. The rest are spotless..
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:25 PM   #105
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WOW! Been away for 10 days over seas, missed all this. I can't read it all now, but get the gist. Yes I was irate! Yes I failed to look behind me at the time I made a maneuver. That won't happen again. Yes the other guy was speeding, maybe 40 plus. He passed me within 20ft like I was standing still. Yes he was going to pass me on the starboard side, while I was 150 feet away from moored boats in a marina. I was still on plain maybe doing 20 when I saw him. I probably started pulling back on my throttle and maybe traveled 20 ft off my heading, it may have been 5 seconds...that's about it, from my change in speed and course. He was on a course to blow by me within 50 ft...at night. NO QUESTION. Put away your calculator and trust me on this one woodsie. Nothing personal taken.

OK - I did one thing wrong. Being stupid, I did not look behind me before I made a maneuver. I did look behind me minutes before and there was no boat in site, so my brain told me I was OK, thinking there is no way anyone could be anywhere near me. Never again.

The guy in the Formula was at fault, no question. My guess is he was looking elsewhere within those 5 seconds and not at the boat in front of him. Maybe he just didn't see me, I don't know.

What if I was stopping and turning because of something in the water, at night, that I couldn't see? a small boat, a log, a swimmer? Would it be my fault then?

I love Formula's I want one. I just see a lot of Formulas out there with a lot of power and it seems there is a higher percentage of them with irresponsible boaters in them.
I am so glad you came back on...although it was really uncomfortable. There are a lot of idiots driving boats on this lake. They drive small boats, sailboats, pontoons, Bajas, and god forbid, even Formulas. And believe it or not, there are many that THINK they know all the rules of the lake, even though by their actions they obviously aren't right. And guess what?! Most of us ( myself included) have called someone an ***hole for an infraction.
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Old 09-21-2013, 06:02 AM   #106
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Question Who's 70% at Fault? The "Burdened" Vessel?

Les Hall of BoaterEd.com agrees with Woodsy.

http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic....06&whichpage=1

(Noted was that Florida uses the term, "Right of Way").

But Les Hall was the Concord, NH, skipper who asserted that "Lake Winnipesaukee was too small for 'performance boats'—go to the ocean, it's only an hour away."

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Huh? I take serious issue with this statement. Performance boat operators are by far the MOST responsible operators on this lake.
Just ask them...

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Old 09-21-2013, 08:43 AM   #107
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Just ask them...

I did. Check the facts with Marine Patrol. I would put any amount of money on the fact that the "per-category" ratio of violations is far lower for performance boats that most if not all other classes of vessels on the lake. Probably the only class vessel with a lower rate of violations is the cabin cruiser class. You can put all the roll-eye icons in your reply that you want, but it won't change the facts.
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Old 09-21-2013, 09:53 AM   #108
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Takes a big man to admit he made a mistake. Welcome back on the forum. And keep that head on a swivel, ya never know WHO you're almost gonna run into.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:23 AM   #109
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That reminds me. Didn't someone post the stops made by MP in a summer? Where do you find that? Under MP? I was talking to some friends last night and we were wondering how many stops MP is making.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:59 AM   #110
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Huh? I take serious issue with this statement. Performance boat operators are by far the MOST responsible operators on this lake. Every bonehead, "irresponsible" move I see is made by someone operating a vessel other than a performance boat. Better re-think your claim.
I take serious issue with THIS statement. I thought I was the MOST responsible operator on this lake.....and I don't have a performance boat.
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Old 09-21-2013, 11:38 AM   #111
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Default Pintoon boats

Seems like a while ago pontoon skippers were the 'darlings' of the SL crowd. They could do no wrong. Just spend a weekend watching them come in and out of Thurston's on a busy day and you will beg to differ.

Two weekends ago, a pontoon was coming into the Weirs Channel at a pretty fast clip. I was going the opposite direction and the tritoon was practically traveling down the middle of the channel forcing traffic to move to the right. As I was next to the toon I wanted to say something and was shocked to see a kid about 12 years old at the helm! All the grownups on the toon weren't even paying attention?

Where are the marine patrol when you really need them????
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Old 09-21-2013, 03:15 PM   #112
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I take serious issue with THIS statement. I thought I was the MOST responsible operator on this lake.....and I don't have a performance boat.
You are the 2nd most responsible operator!
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Old 09-21-2013, 04:34 PM   #113
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I'm new to this forum... seems like there are some very knowledgeable boaters here. I may have stepped out a little on the wrong foot, but was in a very bad mood at the time. I admit, I've learned a couple things already by reading here, so thanks. And apologies for my hull profiling comments, for those I may have flamed.
Laser
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Old 09-21-2013, 06:37 PM   #114
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Laserp - welcome!
I have been boating all my life, my dad made me take a boaters safety course when I was 12...I can honestly say, that I am guilty of some bonehead moves and probably used the middle finger a few times.
Anyway...$%it happens, we are human and can't all be perfect.
Enjoy the Lake!
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:02 PM   #115
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Default "Cant Be perfect"

We can try All 219 pages CC regs
Maybe Bone up over the winter ? http://www.boatered.com/navrules.pdf
Interesting reading actually, Toot Toot
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Old 09-27-2013, 01:17 AM   #116
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Exclamation Listing the Violations that Count...

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Originally Posted by ApS View Post
Just ask them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Bear View Post
I did. Check the facts with Marine Patrol. I would put any amount of money on the fact that the "per-category" ratio of violations is far lower for performance boats that most if not all other classes of vessels on the lake. Probably the only class vessel with a lower rate of violations is the cabin cruiser class. You can put all the roll-eye icons in your reply that you want, but it won't change the facts.
Don't ask the Newbie MPs...



What follows is something seasoned MPs could tell you...



"Per-category ratio", recent Winnipesaukee history would argue against the previous assertion—not to mention that the "violations" to victims were mortal violations:
  1. Wolfeboro —Donzi— 1 Victim
  2. Diamond Is. —Formula— 1 Victim
  3. Meredith —Baja— 1 Victim
  4. Gilford —Cigarette— 3 Victims
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:43 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by ApS View Post
Don't ask the Newbie MPs...



What follows is something seasoned MPs could tell you...



"Per-category ratio", recent Winnipesaukee history would argue against the previous assertion—not to mention that the "violations" to victims were mortal violations:
  1. Wolfeboro —Donzi— 1 Victim
  2. Diamond Is. —Formula— 1 Victim
  3. Meredith —Baja— 1 Victim
  4. Gilford —Cigarette— 3 Victims
How about you list the rest of the "categories".
Sailboats
Canoes
Kayaks
Pontoon boats
PWCs
etc
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:33 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by ApS View Post
Don't ask the Newbie MPs...



What follows is something seasoned MPs could tell you...



"Per-category ratio", recent Winnipesaukee history would argue against the previous assertion—not to mention that the "violations" to victims were mortal violations:
  1. Wolfeboro —Donzi— 1 Victim
  2. Diamond Is. —Formula— 1 Victim
  3. Meredith —Baja— 1 Victim
  4. Gilford —Cigarette— 3 Victims
As Chip said, how about the rest of the categories/victims? Just as a start, how about this one? Laconia - wakeboarding (probably not a performance boat) 1 victim

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/index...d-boataccident

Or this one: Gilford - Chaparral (collided with a Formula) - 4 victims

http://www.lowellsun.com/news/ci_235...h-that-hurt?so

APS, you can try spinning this all you want to mold it "your way" but getting back on the point of the original statement: there are few violations incurred by performance boaters.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:31 AM   #119
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The truth of the mater is we can all find information to support our cause...

But if we look at the comprehensive statistic over the course of time is when we see the real picture.

I suggest reading some of these reports:

http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...tatistics.aspx

These aren't some looking for support for their cause, but rather nation wide statistics provide by the coast guard... These are FACT....

Most importantly what I noted, after breezing through these is that smaller boats under 25' are the most prone to accidents... not the 25' to 35' high performance boats, that people seem to think don't have a place on the lake....

By the nature of economics bigger boats are more expensive... which means when you lay down the cash for a bigger boat, you are more likely to know what you are doing, as you don't want to make a foolish investment.

This summer I have had more issue, with bow riders and jet skis then I have any other type of boat... but I am not out trying to get them banned....
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:30 AM   #120
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The truth of the mater is we can all find information to support our cause...

But if we look at the comprehensive statistic over the course of time is when we see the real picture.

I suggest reading some of these reports:

http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...tatistics.aspx

These aren't some looking for support for their cause, but rather nation wide statistics provide by the coast guard... These are FACT....

Most importantly what I noted, after breezing through these is that smaller boats under 25' are the most prone to accidents... not the 25' to 35' high performance boats, that people seem to think don't have a place on the lake....

By the nature of economics bigger boats are more expensive... which means when you lay down the cash for a bigger boat, you are more likely to know what you are doing, as you don't want to make a foolish investment.

This summer I have had more issue, with bow riders and jet skis then I have any other type of boat... but I am not out trying to get them banned....
I agree with most of this...but not with the belief that people who buy the most expensive boats "know what they're doing"
I am amazed at the number of large, expensive boats that fly through the NWZ and on the wrong side of the markers in front of my house. How can you spend over 100 grand on a boat and not bother to either look at a chart or know what the rules are. Money does not equal brains.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:47 AM   #121
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I agree with most of this...but not with the belief that people who buy the most expensive boats "know what they're doing"
I am amazed at the number of large, expensive boats that fly through the NWZ and on the wrong side of the markers in front of my house. How can you spend over 100 grand on a boat and not bother to either look at a chart or know what the rules are. Money does not equal brains.
It's only the large, expensive boats that do this? Not the jet skis, not the bow riders, not the pontoon boats, not the bass boats, etc.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:56 AM   #122
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There are a lot of bad drivers out on the lake. I was trying to make the point that just because someone is driving an expensive boat doesn't guarantee they know what they're doing.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:43 PM   #123
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Just because you have tons of money does not mean you can do what you pleased. Trouble is a number of well to do does just that. And these people have no common sense. For instant I know of MacMansion owners that have Prius or other hybrid cars in their driveway with a gas guzzler parked next to it. Often times they use the gas guzzler around town instead of the Prius. What is heck did they buy the Prius for? Status symbol.

These same Macmansion owners have their landscapers fertilize the lawn after hours so that they can use harmful to the environment chemicals. What they do this for? Country club lawns are a status quo.

I can go on and on but this is just a start, along with their boating etiquette.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:57 PM   #124
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Angry Wth?

It's unbelievable how many threads just degenerate into a stereotyping slugfest.
It's THIS kind of boat....
It's the PROPERTY OWNERS.....
it's these people from [blank].......
It's the ISLAND property owners......
It's the big houses......
It's the new houses........
It's the weekenders.....
It's the full timers.....

Huh? How can ANYONE make a global statement about ANY of these groups? Nobody knows what prior experience, sacrifices, hard work, or training anyone's undergone to get what they have? Can't we all just get along? There are idiots in EVERY category. There are also great people in every category. And, I think the members of this forum generally fall into the latter group. We can do better.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:51 AM   #125
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I agree with most of this...but not with the belief that people who buy the most expensive boats "know what they're doing"
I am amazed at the number of large, expensive boats that fly through the NWZ and on the wrong side of the markers in front of my house. How can you spend over 100 grand on a boat and not bother to either look at a chart or know what the rules are. Money does not equal brains.
If you are going to quote me don't take a snipet.... I stated

Quote:
which means when you lay down the cash for a bigger boat, you are more likely to know what you are doing, as you don't want to make a foolish investment.
This doesn't imply that every person that own a big boat knows what they are doing... Certainly some people make the investment and shouldn't.... But no more so then you find with any other boats size...

Now what you have to stop and think about is what are the contributing factors to there being so many accidents with boats up to 25'

One of the biggest factors is the shear volume of boats in that size category...

my guess is if you looked at the percentage of accidents do to inexperience and lack of regard for rules, percentage wise boat size doesn't matter.....

The bottom line is people have associated reckless behavior in boating with a particular style of boat.... And that needs to stop... no boat is any more reckless or then any other style of boat...

What is reckless is the people operating the boats...

People need to stop pointing fingers at the style of boats, and realize what the problem is.......
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:59 AM   #126
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How can ANYONE make a global statement about ANY of these groups? Nobody knows what prior experience, sacrifices, hard work, or training anyone's undergone to get what they have?
This is easy to answer.... because it is always easiest to target a group of people, and blame them for everything we don't like......

Then to accept the fact that the human race by nature is flawed.... we all make bad judgement calls from time to time....

Because the bottom line is no one is perfect....

But people don't know how to except that FACT.
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:43 AM   #127
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Question "Where 'All the Women are Strong'"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion View Post
It's unbelievable how many threads just degenerate into a stereotyping slugfest.
It's THIS kind of boat....
It's the PROPERTY OWNERS.....
it's these people from [blank].......
It's the ISLAND property owners......
It's the big houses......
It's the new houses........
It's the weekenders.....
It's the full timers.....

Huh? How can ANYONE make a global statement about ANY of these groups? Nobody knows what prior experience, sacrifices, hard work, or training anyone's undergone to get what they have? Can't we all just get along? There are idiots in EVERY category.

There are also great people in every category..
All our boaters are "Above-Average Boaters"?



...and you forgot BMW drivers...



• Besides the controversial Restaurant Forum, the "Lake Issues" forum evolved for the following reason:



(So, we CAN talk about this issue)

• Getting back to the "violations" issue, there certainly will be more violations written for 13-foot sailboats lacking registration decals: small boats in general—are easy targets—and don't involve a second- or third- NHMP patrol boat to round them up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipj29 View Post
How about listing the rest of the "categories".
Sailboats
Canoes
Kayaks
Pontoon boats
PWCs
etc
• With the possible exception of Jet-Skis and Pontoon boats, the others listed are not responsible for the violations that are of a criminal nature.

(e.g., "Leaving the Scene of an Injury or Death").

• The vast number of "violations" written by the NHMP are violations of "Civil-Law".

(No jail time).
_____________________________________________

I actually have come to like pontoon boats.

• They leave scarcely any wake—certainly welcome on a lake that now suffers from heavy erosion.

• With no foredeck to block the view ahead, they allow a proper view for a "Keeping a Proper Watch".

• Few outboard engines are noisy.

• Pontoon boats of any size can tow skiers or tubes without capsizing others enjoying the lake.

(Faces and boat numbers—redacted)

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