Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Lake Issues > Boating Issues
Home Forums Gallery YouTube Channel Classifieds Links Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-25-2013, 06:13 AM   #1
mowtorman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 105
Thanks: 45
Thanked 60 Times in 40 Posts
Default Weirs channel coexistence

Weirs channel on a Saturday is a bad idea anyways, but....from what I experienced yesterday....right of way is determined by who holds the throttle the longest coming into the channel at the beach and the headway speed law doesn't exist. People either don't know what a wake is or just motor through at a speed just below transition to plane because they are in such a hurry. A wake is such a simple concept either you make one or you don't. Either people don't know or choose to ignore boating laws. There are people swimming at the channel cottages and other beaches very close to the travel lane. I've been passed between the diner and Endicott Rock 3 times this summer. Once by a father and son in a small whaler, once by an Anchor Marine rental that was completely clueless and once by a jetski that made a third lane under the bridge. Me first aggressive driving rules. Can't beat the lake on a hot summer day just wish it didn't feel like the ramp on 93 or 128 on a weekday morning. Avoidance and timing are simple solutions, summer is almost over anyways.
mowtorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 06:39 AM   #2
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,529
Thanks: 446
Thanked 791 Times in 544 Posts
Default

Thank you. I totally agree, either you make a wake or you don't. I have said that before on this forum and gotten beat up about it. I still say, most boats do NOT need to make a wake in a no wake area. The driver just doesn't have patience.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 06:58 AM   #3
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 1,400
Thanks: 213
Thanked 760 Times in 312 Posts
Default Don't forget the curent

I will agree that many people travel through the Weirs Channel at a speed that leaves a large wake. Numerous times I have heard people from land yelling at the boaters telling them to slow down.

However, I have followed many people through the Channel against the current who seem to forget to compensate for the current. When you have to repeatedly correct your steering and there is a line of boats behind you all of the way to Paugus Bay (and no one in front of you) you might consider going slightly faster. You should maintain the minimum speed that will allow you to control your boat and leave little or no wake.

This year the current has remained much stronger than usual througout most of the boating season. Sometimes, because of the speed of the current across your hull your boat will leave a wake if you are standing still. Many people don't understand the need to adjust for the existing conditions.
TiltonBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 07:04 AM   #4
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,529
Thanks: 446
Thanked 791 Times in 544 Posts
Default

That may be an excuse for that particular area, Tilton, but there are other areas that don't have a strong current and many still make a wake.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 07:09 AM   #5
upthesaukee
Senior Member
 
upthesaukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 4,690
Thanks: 1,404
Thanked 1,423 Times in 772 Posts
Default I also agree

I understand that some boats may need to create a ripple to maintain steerage. These ripples do nothing more than make a little sound of waves hitting the hull, and do little to move the hull of my 25 ft bowrider up and down. But when the wake created equals a wave of a foot or more, and the boat pitches up and down because of it, it becomes a wanton disregard for the no wake zone. We see that daily in our no wake area in Alton Bay inside the bandstand area. Fortunately, it is not a particularly tight navigational area.

I do understand that going through the channel causes us to take the current into play, and that speed must be adjusted accordingly, but only by a small amount. It is frustrating, and is the reason that we avoid going into Paugus Bay unless it is a weekday, and generally off season.
__________________
I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!
upthesaukee is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to upthesaukee For This Useful Post:
soupyjr8 (08-25-2013)
Sponsored Links
Old 08-25-2013, 07:25 AM   #6
BroadHopper
Senior Member
 
BroadHopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH / Bozeman MO
Posts: 4,738
Thanks: 2,262
Thanked 826 Times in 574 Posts
Default Ditto

I have to agree with everyone here, but it all about common sense and the Weirs Channel surely show a lack of it!
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day.
BroadHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BroadHopper For This Useful Post:
soupyjr8 (08-25-2013)
Old 08-25-2013, 07:34 AM   #7
ITD
Senior Member
 
ITD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Massachusetts and Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 2,290
Thanks: 334
Thanked 419 Times in 243 Posts
Default

I don't understand the adjust speed for current thing.... your boat doesn't care if there is a current or not, it becomes part of the current and will move at its normal speed with respect to the current. You will have the same steerability as still water. Where you need to be careful is when you are not parallel to the current you will still be moving with the current which will move your boat sideways with respect to the land. The only place this is a problem is when pulling into or out of Thurston's. You do not need to speed up to maintain steerage in the channel.....
ITD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 08:21 AM   #8
gillygirl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 277
Thanks: 468
Thanked 116 Times in 68 Posts
Default

I've been told that in order to have control of a boat in a current you must be traveling faster or slower than the current. Not true?
__________________
GG
gillygirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 08:49 AM   #9
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 1,400
Thanks: 213
Thanked 760 Times in 312 Posts
Default Good Call

Quote:
Originally Posted by gillygirl View Post
I've been told that in order to have control of a boat in a current you must be traveling faster or slower than the current. Not true?
You are correct when you say that you must travel faster than the current to maintain control. In order to steer into the current a higher RPM is needed to keep your boat from being pushed around by the current and to maintain direction and headway speed.

If you are travelling with the current, unless you maintain a speed slightly greater than the current you are subject to being pushed wherever the water wants to take you. Sometimes when going with the current you can give small bursts of increased engine speed to maintain the general direction you intend to go but keep your speed to a minimum.

One of the problems in the Channel is that some people do not make an adjustment based on the existing conditions.
TiltonBB is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TiltonBB For This Useful Post:
gillygirl (08-25-2013)
Old 08-25-2013, 08:49 AM   #10
chachee52
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tyngsboro, MA and Gilford, NH
Posts: 112
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITD View Post
I don't understand the adjust speed for current thing.... your boat doesn't care if there is a current or not, it becomes part of the current and will move at its normal speed with respect to the current. You will have the same steerability as still water. Where you need to be careful is when you are not parallel to the current you will still be moving with the current which will move your boat sideways with respect to the land. The only place this is a problem is when pulling into or out of Thurston's. You do not need to speed up to maintain steerage in the channel.....
You obviously have not traveled in a current much or have seen the barges that have got stuck in the weirs Channel when there was a significant current and had to be pulled out by the tow boat because their outboard motors aren't strong enough for the current.
If you have a 8mph current and your throttling at 6mph you will go backwards and if you are heading right into it, the bow will get pushed side to side a little. It's like if there is a wind and you cut your engine while pointing up wind, your boat will get spun around.
chachee52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 09:14 AM   #11
ITD
Senior Member
 
ITD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Massachusetts and Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 2,290
Thanks: 334
Thanked 419 Times in 243 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gillygirl View Post
I've been told that in order to have control of a boat in a current you must be traveling faster or slower than the current. Not true?
When you enter the current you become part of the current, your boat doesn't care if there is a current. In the channel you either move with the current or against the current. If you turn off your motor, you can see that you are part of the current because your boat will move relative to the land with the current. When your propeller is spinning you move relative to the current, just like in still water.

So if you are going toward Paugus, with the current which is for our purpose, 2 mph today, your boat will be moving 2 mph plus your no wake speed, which let's say for this example is 5 mph. So relative to the land you are moving 7 mph, relative to the water, you are still moving 5 mph and your boat still will steer as it does in still water.

Turn around and head up stream, same thing, your boat is still moving 5 mph relative to the water, but since your boat is part of the water that has a current and you are going upstream, your speed relative to the shore is 3 mph. You look at the water and it is going by at 5 mph, yet the land is only going by at 3 mph. Your boat will still steer the same.

You need to be careful when you turn off axis from the current, because although relative to the water your boat is moving the same, relative to a fixed point on the shore you are also moving with the current. I saw several people end up hitting rocks turning into Thurston's this year because they do not understand this, most of them were going faster than headway, which put them into the rocks faster and with more force.

So to answer your question, no, in the channel, you do not need to speed up or slow down to maintain control, just drive as you normally would and be on the look out for those who don't understand. If you need to go into Thurston's when the current is strong, make the turn going upstream and watch the land as you turn angling a little up stream to compensate for the moving water steering you toward the rocks.


Now if you are at the end of the Merrimack river, where the current exceeds the head way speed of many boats, the same idea applies, except that if the current is faster than your headway speed, you will move backwards relative to the land. Your boat will still steer normally and the water appears to be going by at your 5 mph head way, but let's say the current is 7 mph, then you will be moving 2 mph backward relative to the land. In that case you need to speed up to make forward progression relative to land. This isn't an issue at the lake where I have never seen the current exceed 2 or 3 mph.
ITD is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ITD For This Useful Post:
jetlag100 (08-26-2013)
Old 08-25-2013, 09:17 AM   #12
ITD
Senior Member
 
ITD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Massachusetts and Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 2,290
Thanks: 334
Thanked 419 Times in 243 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chachee52 View Post
You obviously have not traveled in a current much or have seen the barges that have got stuck in the weirs Channel when there was a significant current and had to be pulled out by the tow boat because their outboard motors aren't strong enough for the current.
If you have a 8mph current and your throttling at 6mph you will go backwards and if you are heading right into it, the bow will get pushed side to side a little. It's like if there is a wind and you cut your engine while pointing up wind, your boat will get spun around.
If the current is ever 8 mph in the channel then there is something seriously wrong with the dam..... I think the worst I have seen it is 2 or 3 mph...
ITD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 10:13 AM   #13
NHBUOY
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loon Mtn. winters...Meredith Neck summers
Posts: 398
Thanks: 288
Thanked 92 Times in 58 Posts
Exclamation

I haven't been out on The Lake too much this summer, BUT, I have been out everyday this week from 4 til dusk.
I am shocked, amazed, and disappointed with the blatant disregard for even the smallest courtesies and general lack of seamanship I have observed every time out.
I am NOT describing Stupid People On Rental Equipment(SPORES) either. The most blatant "infractions" seem to be committed by what appear to be by "seasoned/long-time, Winni skippers" in bow-riders.
A leisurely cruise seems to be a lost art.
NHBUOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 02:02 PM   #14
mowtorman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 105
Thanks: 45
Thanked 60 Times in 40 Posts
Wink Current

There was no current to speak of yesterday. One of the best parts of a "leisurely cruise" down the channel is taking your time and enjoying the scenery. Very unique place we are lucky to be able to share. Well said NHB (though bowriders and pontoons are the majority these days, and boats don't do things by themselves their behavior is dependent on their master, kind of like a dog) .
mowtorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 07:50 PM   #15
Dave R
Senior Member
 
Dave R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,692
Thanks: 216
Thanked 580 Times in 338 Posts
Default

I spent all day Saturday on Winnipesaukee and saw only one instance of poor operation. Everyone I saw was well behaved except a couple of PWC operators riding together in Braun Bay that did not seem to know the 150' rule (not that I care).
__________________
Captain of "Mischief Managed"
Say hi if you see us on the lake.
Dave R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 08:59 PM   #16
Legionnaire70
Senior Member
 
Legionnaire70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 119
Thanks: 25
Thanked 31 Times in 21 Posts
Default

I live on the Channel, just moved in beginning of the summer after our house burned down in Laconia. We live right next to Channel cottages and have a deck that overlooks all the chaos and crazyness. I could go on for days about the behavior we see, I have been a boater since the age of 12, I am now 42. I am absolutely blown away at what I see and am amazed that I haven't seen an accident or someone getting killed. On a weekend I've seen waves bigger than Hampton beach. Good luck if you choose to navigate the channel!!
Legionnaire70 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Legionnaire70 For This Useful Post:
jetlag100 (08-26-2013)
Old 08-26-2013, 01:48 AM   #17
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 4,345
Thanks: 855
Thanked 410 Times in 297 Posts
Arrow Displacing Incompressible Water...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITD View Post
If the current is ever 8 mph in the channel then there is something seriously wrong with the dam..... I think the worst I have seen it is 2 or 3 mph...
Current "speed" in channels and canals is dependent on what's traveling in it.

I have no trouble believing that a stuck barge needed towing: in a narrow-enough channel, even one over-sized boat can affect current speed.

ApS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 05:12 AM   #18
VitaBene
Senior Member
 
VitaBene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 3,101
Thanks: 1,235
Thanked 1,369 Times in 683 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApS View Post
Current "speed" in channels and canals is dependent on what's traveling in it.

I have no trouble believing that a stuck barge needed towing: in a narrow-enough channel, even one over-sized boat can affect current speed.

You are not saying that a 40' cruiser will change the speed of the current in the Weirs channel in any appreciable way, are you?
VitaBene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 06:05 AM   #19
NH_boater
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 298
Thanks: 14
Thanked 147 Times in 62 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITD View Post
If the current is ever 8 mph in the channel then there is something seriously wrong with the dam..... I think the worst I have seen it is 2 or 3 mph...
I have gone through, traveling with a 4 mph current with my jet boat, notorious for poor steering at low speeds. With a 4 mph current, I am traveling at 4 mph (over ground) with absolutely no steering or control. If I add the minimum 4-5 mph necessary to maintain control, I am now traveling 8-9 mph (over ground) just to keep control in a tight, rocky area.

I have had people on the shore jumping up and down yelling to slow down under these exact conditions. While I agree that many boats ignore or really push the limits of headway speed, have a clue when boats are just trying to navigate a busy channel with a strong current.

NWZ means under 6 mph or the minimum to maintain steering, not that there is not any wake behind the boat. There will always be some wake or ripple as a boat travels through the water.

I have been in Winnisquam channel at Martels when there were standing waves. This was 7-8 mph easy.
NH_boater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 06:57 AM   #20
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 1,400
Thanks: 213
Thanked 760 Times in 312 Posts
Default Dam discharge rate

The Lakeport Dam typically discharges between between 250 and 1,050 cfs. That rate is the determining factor in the speed of the water flowing through the Weirs Channel.

The NHDES website mentions shoreline erosion, complaints about the levels, and the generation of power as the some of the concerns they have when deciding how to regulate the flow over the dams in Lakeport and downstream.

What is significant in it's absense is any reference to the speed of water in the Channel and how it affects navigation and boating safety. Because the tourist and recreation industry is so important to New Hampshire and the Channel is the most travelled area on New Hampshire's biggest lake it would seem important to take that into consideration.

The easy solution would seem to be to increase the flow between 10PM and 8AM and slow the flow down during the day. As it currently works (or doesn't work depending upon your perspective) the changes in flow rate are only made on the day shift and only on weekdays. In other words: What is left on Friday afternoon is what is happening on Monday Morning.

It is just my opinion but the concerns about boating safety should should overide the generation and sale of hydroelectric power.
TiltonBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 07:32 AM   #21
ITD
Senior Member
 
ITD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Massachusetts and Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 2,290
Thanks: 334
Thanked 419 Times in 243 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NH_boater View Post
I have gone through, traveling with a 4 mph current with my jet boat, notorious for poor steering at low speeds. With a 4 mph current, I am traveling at 4 mph (over ground) with absolutely no steering or control. If I add the minimum 4-5 mph necessary to maintain control, I am now traveling 8-9 mph (over ground) just to keep control in a tight, rocky area.

I have had people on the shore jumping up and down yelling to slow down under these exact conditions. While I agree that many boats ignore or really push the limits of headway speed, have a clue when boats are just trying to navigate a busy channel with a strong current.

NWZ means under 6 mph or the minimum to maintain steering, not that there is not any wake behind the boat. There will always be some wake or ripple as a boat travels through the water.

I have been in Winnisquam channel at Martels when there were standing waves. This was 7-8 mph easy.
I don't get your point. If there is a 4 mph current and your boat is traveling at 4 mph then you are in neutral or your motor is off, you are adrift, the current is carrying you through and you will have no steerage. The laws of physics do not take a vacation in the channel. I made the point very clearly in my other post that your speed plus the speed of the current is your speed relative to the ground. I also made the point that you don't need to speed up from headway speed to maintain control in a current. Then I made the point that if the current is against you and faster than your boat, you WILL need to speed up to make forward progression. I have never seen that situation in the channel. There are many people who think they need to increase the speed of their boat to maintain steerage in a current, that is just wrong and it leads to people going too fast IN BOTH DIRECTIONS through the channel.
ITD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 07:53 AM   #22
NH_boater
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 298
Thanks: 14
Thanked 147 Times in 62 Posts
Default

My point was that I have been yelled at, by people on shore for going too fast while I was traveling the minimum speed possible. These folks simply do not understand how the current affects steering.

You say that you have never seen a situation where someone had to speed up when traveling against the current to make forward progression. Many boats travel ~3 MPH at headway speed. Mine runs at 3 MPH at minimum rpm (on GPS) in no wind and no current. In a 3 MPH head-on current, there is a definite need to increase speed to travel through the channel. At minimum rpm, I have sat basically stationary against the current and needed to increase speed to make headway.

I have seen once, and heard of many times where Marine Patrol was warning boats for going too slow in the channel. These boats do not compensate for the head-on current and 'block traffic' for the rest of us.
NH_boater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 08:15 AM   #23
HUH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 230
Thanks: 21
Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts
Default No wake!

Im sure this will offend many here on the boards but our observations from our spot in a no wake zone with no current is that most wakers just do it because they think they have a right to. The islanders see running back and forth as a nuisance are the worst offenders. Second only to a very few completely uneducated boaters. When you ask them to slow down they look back at their wake and say "there is no white water" REALLY? This is what you think bothers us??? How about the fact that you are less that twenty feet away from our kids swimming off the dock? How would you feel if I sped up and down the street where your three year old was learning to ride a tricycle. We have been yelling at the Ignorance for as many years as we have been here and will continue to do so because it works most of the time.
HUH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 08:17 AM   #24
ITD
Senior Member
 
ITD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Massachusetts and Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 2,290
Thanks: 334
Thanked 419 Times in 243 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApS View Post
Current "speed" in channels and canals is dependent on what's traveling in it.

I have no trouble believing that a stuck barge needed towing: in a narrow-enough channel, even one over-sized boat can affect current speed.

Interesting theory APS, how much will my 26 foot bow rider affect the speed of the current?
ITD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 10:12 AM   #25
Woodsy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Weirs Beach
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 45
Thanked 669 Times in 274 Posts
Default

I am going to start a petition..... there is too much confusion over the term "No Wake"! It needs to be a solid number that everyone can understand!

The No Wake rule is written as follows....

VI. "Headway speed" means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

VIII. "No wake area" means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed.


Note that the law does not say "DONT MAKE A RIPPLE" or "DONT MAKE A WAKE" The key to the law is 6 MPH or MAINTAIN STEERAGE. It does not state the a boat is to be operated at DEAD SLOW.

Every boat is different, some boats can maintain steerage at 2-3 MPH others need 5-6 MPH. My old Donzi 22 Blackhawk actually required 8-9 MPH to maintain steerage. The channel and other NWZ should have signage that says 6 MPH - HEADWAY SPEED


http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=10308 Note the response from NHMP!

Woodsy
__________________
The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.
Woodsy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Woodsy For This Useful Post:
Orion (08-28-2013), Ride & Dive (08-27-2013)
Old 08-26-2013, 11:58 AM   #26
BroadHopper
Senior Member
 
BroadHopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH / Bozeman MO
Posts: 4,738
Thanks: 2,262
Thanked 826 Times in 574 Posts
Default I have to agree with Woodsy

I have brought this matter up with marine patrol and with NHRBA and SNONH.

All channel or traffic areas should be designated 'Headway Speed' and all NWZ areas that does not have through traffic should be designated as 'No Wake' It makes sense.

Unfortunately the definition of 'No Wake' and 'Headway Speed' are basically the same so there will be no changing signs now or in the future.
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day.
BroadHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 12:23 PM   #27
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,529
Thanks: 446
Thanked 791 Times in 544 Posts
Default

It definitely needs to be defined. I think there is a reason for no wake however and that means you can't make a wake. Otherwise, just eliminate it. There NEEDS to be a difference. I know in years past, some MPs would not allow ANY wake to be made- some so small it even surprised me.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 12:40 PM   #28
NH_boater
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 298
Thanks: 14
Thanked 147 Times in 62 Posts
Default

Maybe I am in the minority but I do not think anything needs to change. I do not see a need for 'no wake' and 'headway' speed. They are synonymous because they serve the same purpose. Both mean 6 mph or the minimum to maintain steering. In currents, the over-ground speeds will be higher when having to deal with currents.

If someone wants to yell at me because I am going too fast, I just smile and wave back (at their ignorance) as always. I know I err to slower passage rather than faster passage through these areas.

Like most topics, I think we have all the laws we need, we need to simply enforce what we have rather than add more laws or complexity.
NH_boater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 03:36 PM   #29
LIforrelaxin
Senior Member
 
LIforrelaxin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee
Posts: 2,193
Thanks: 775
Thanked 622 Times in 335 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tis View Post
It definitely needs to be defined. I think there is a reason for no wake however and that means you can't make a wake. Otherwise, just eliminate it. There NEEDS to be a difference. I know in years past, some MPs would not allow ANY wake to be made- some so small it even surprised me.
First I want to start by saying that the simple act of a object moving through water you are going to create a wake.... so if a Marine Patrol officer every indicated that no wake what so ever was allowed, I would be very surprised.

The displacement of the boat dictates how much of a wake you produce at a slow speed. In short at the same given speed of 6 mph, the wakes behind two different sized boats are going to be different.... so some boats my have a larger ripple then others....

Now the real problem here, is peoples interpretation of the wording.... As has been stated I would like to see the term No-Wake changed.... because as previously stated any object travel through the water will create a wake....

Now what is the proper speed.... that is a whole other argument. Which is why the law has been designed with a great deal of interpretability. As Woodsy point out he had a boat which really required headway speed to be about 7-8 mph... while I have had boats that I could back all the way down to 2 or 3 mph with out any issues.

I personally think "No-wake" should become "Headway speed"

And Headway speed should be defined as "A reasonable speed which allows the vessel, to maintain steerage, and progress in a forward motion, against any current, while minimizing the wake created by the vessel"

A figure of speed needs to be taken completely out of the equation....
__________________
Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....
LIforrelaxin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 04:03 PM   #30
jetlag100
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Revere, Massachusetts and Moultonborough, N.H.
Posts: 306
Thanks: 228
Thanked 76 Times in 48 Posts
Default

If you can't control your boat going thru the Channel, stay out of the Channel.
jetlag100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 04:05 PM   #31
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,529
Thanks: 446
Thanked 791 Times in 544 Posts
Default

Well, you have to be very surprised then LIF because I stood right beside the MP and he said the guy was making a wake and he stopped him. I actually questioned him, being very surprised that he was going to stop the guy for making that small of a wake. It was barely a ripple. And this happened more than once with this MP. I can tell you one thing, it didn't take long for the "regulars" to figure out that they better not make a wake. You can believe me or not.

It is simply inconsiderate to rock people's boats and docks and erode the shore just because you are in such a hurry while driving a boat.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 07:28 AM   #32
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 4,345
Thanks: 855
Thanked 410 Times in 297 Posts
Lightbulb Physics—It's the LAW...!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITD View Post
Interesting theory APS, how much will my 26 foot bow rider affect the speed of the current?
It's not a theory, and it can be measured—but first—think of it this way:

If 100 cubic yards of "fill" were added to the channel bottom, would the speed of the current change?

Now take the displacement of all the boats in the channel, and think of that as "fill"—but at the top.


The more engines a boat has—the deeper the "V" of the hull—all that displacement has to be "displaced" to somewhere else—effectively, narrowing the channel.
_________________________________

To measure the effect of your boat, put your GPS in a Styrofoam cooler, and float that GPS down a measured course—say, a hundred feet. Record the speed of the current. Then anchor your 26-footer in the channel, and measure the current with the same floating GPS device. You can expect the GPS to record a faster speed. Apply that reasoning to a large number of boats: that they're in motion is insignificant.

If the channel were narrow enough, you can see even a canoe can affect current speed. (And why I advocate starting one's boating-experience with a small boat—even building one—not jumping in with an over-sized boat).



Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaBene View Post
You are not saying that a 40' cruiser will change the speed of the current in the Weirs channel in any appreciable way, are you?
It would, but not to the same measure as a 40-foot rowing scull. It's displacement that counts—not length.
ApS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 07:46 AM   #33
LIforrelaxin
Senior Member
 
LIforrelaxin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee
Posts: 2,193
Thanks: 775
Thanked 622 Times in 335 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tis View Post
Well, you have to be very surprised then LIF because I stood right beside the MP and he said the guy was making a wake and he stopped him. I actually questioned him, being very surprised that he was going to stop the guy for making that small of a wake. It was barely a ripple. And this happened more than once with this MP. I can tell you one thing, it didn't take long for the "regulars" to figure out that they better not make a wake. You can believe me or not.

It is simply inconsiderate to rock people's boats and docks and erode the shore just because you are in such a hurry while driving a boat.
Yes it is inconsiderate to produce to much of a wake when in close proximity of the shore... Believe me I am on the same page as you....

I have met and talked with many MP officers over the years, and am the first to state that they are not all created equal... In short the MP officer that made the comment you have stated now twice... clearly didn't understand the physics, that any object moving through the water is going to create a wake.... I was not trying to indicate that what you said didn't happen... I just couldn't believe that the wording would have been that way... To openly state the N0-Wake could come from a boat underway even at half a mile per hour, means the person didn't understand the physic involved....

The bottom line is that this is a grey array of law, always has been always will be.... Could different wording make things better, well... no mater what someone is always going to ready into the wording what they want too....
__________________
Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....
LIforrelaxin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 07:55 AM   #34
chipj29
Senior Member
 
chipj29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bow
Posts: 1,853
Thanks: 487
Thanked 285 Times in 151 Posts
Default

I must be in the very rarest of the rare minority. I actually enjoy going through the channel. There is always something to see, whether it is other boats or the people on shore. Granted, I don’t pass through there often, but I find it fun.
__________________
Getting ready for winter!
chipj29 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to chipj29 For This Useful Post:
Dave R (08-27-2013), Ride & Dive (08-27-2013)
Old 08-27-2013, 08:11 AM   #35
Happy Gourmand
Senior Member
 
Happy Gourmand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Meredith NH and Ruskin FL
Posts: 1,022
Thanks: 179
Thanked 322 Times in 179 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipj29 View Post
I must be in the very rarest of the rare minority. I actually enjoy going through the channel. There is always something to see, whether it is other boats or the people on shore. Granted, I don’t pass through there often, but I find it fun.
Chip, I'm with you on this. It can be quite a show. I don't get upset when another boater doesn't navigate the channel exactly as I do, I'm on the boat to have a good time and figure they are too.
It does get interesting sometimes, though, doesn't it?
Happy Gourmand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 08:15 AM   #36
ITD
Senior Member
 
ITD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Massachusetts and Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 2,290
Thanks: 334
Thanked 419 Times in 243 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApS View Post
It's not a theory, and it can be measured—but first—think of it this way:

If 100 cubic yards of "fill" were added to the channel bottom, would the speed of the current change?

Now take the displacement of all the boats in the channel, and think of that as "fill"—but at the top.


The more engines a boat has—the deeper the "V" of the hull—all that displacement has to be "displaced" to somewhere else—effectively, narrowing the channel.
_________________________________

To measure the effect of your boat, put your GPS in a Styrofoam cooler, and float that GPS down a measured course—say, a hundred feet. Record the speed of the current. Then anchor your 26-footer in the channel, and measure the current with the same floating GPS device. You can expect the GPS to record a faster speed. Apply that reasoning to a large number of boats: that they're in motion is insignificant.

If the channel were narrow enough, you can see even a canoe can affect current speed. (And why I advocate starting one's boating-experience with a small boat—even building one—not jumping in with an over-sized boat).




It would, but not to the same measure as a 40-foot rowing scull. It's displacement that counts—not length.
The law of physics is absolute Aps, to a degree anyway, your post made it seem like there would be a significant change in velocity in the channel based on the boats in it, I say that the change is so small for the typical traffic in the channel, even on a busy day, your chosen measurement instrument, a gps, would not detect it.

The 100 yards of fill you mentioned would be fixed in place, and cause a significant disruption of the water flow, depending on how it was placed, it could increase the current speed, really not pertinent to your theory..... A 40 foot boat floating with or against the current would cause a change so small, it would be undetectable to a person on a boat. Remember, we are talking millions of pounds of water moving versus a 10 or 15 thousand pound boat. So while in theory your assumption is correct, the current speed is affected by the boats in the current, in reality, in the Weirs channel, even on a busy day, the effect is pretty much undetectable. Moreover you have boats moving in both directions, which would tend to negate the effect.
ITD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 08:33 AM   #37
NH_boater
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 298
Thanks: 14
Thanked 147 Times in 62 Posts
Default

Of course, casting a lure into the lake would raise the lake level across the entire lake.

(And before anyone corrects me) The lure would have to be cast from shore because if I cast it from my kayak, the lake would already have risen and would only drop, momentarily while the lure was in flight.
NH_boater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 08:36 AM   #38
NH_boater
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 298
Thanks: 14
Thanked 147 Times in 62 Posts
Default

I too enjoy the channel, although not as much on crazy busy days. The traffic and chaos does not bother me, just the extra 30 minutes lost that I could spend enjoying more of the lake.
NH_boater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 09:09 AM   #39
Seaplane Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 850
Thanks: 300
Thanked 467 Times in 174 Posts
Default If only.............

.................The Weirs channel was the biggest problem we had on this lake. But, sad to say, it's far from the biggest problem. If MP is going to waste their time worrying about a few small ripples behind someone's boat, while they ignore the real problems out there, then that officer should be fired.
Seaplane Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Seaplane Pilot For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (09-18-2013), LIforrelaxin (08-27-2013), NHBUOY (08-27-2013), Resident 2B (08-27-2013), VitaBene (08-28-2013)
Old 08-27-2013, 09:37 AM   #40
PaugusBayFireFighter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 837
Thanks: 361
Thanked 672 Times in 264 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand View Post
Chip, I'm with you on this. It can be quite a show. I don't get upset when another boater doesn't navigate the channel exactly as I do, I'm on the boat to have a good time and figure they are too.
It does get interesting sometimes, though, doesn't it?
I travel through the channel almost daily. I have seen lots of crazy things but that's part of the fun of cruising through. It's a circus on the weekends and that's fine with me. If you expect to travel through that channel and not encounter wake or see something that doesn't translate into proper boating etiquette, avoid it, it's a huge lake.
The summers are short and life's even shorter...a little wake in the Weirs channel is nothing to stress about.
Weirs Archimedes when you need him??
PaugusBayFireFighter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PaugusBayFireFighter For This Useful Post:
Seaplane Pilot (08-27-2013), Water Camper (08-27-2013)
Old 08-27-2013, 12:34 PM   #41
Retired Ole Guy
Senior Member
 
Retired Ole Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Billerica, MA
Posts: 57
Thanks: 13
Thanked 44 Times in 13 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaugusBayFireFighter View Post
I travel through the channel almost daily. I have seen lots of crazy things but that's part of the fun of cruising through. It's a circus on the weekends and that's fine with me. If you expect to travel through that channel and not encounter wake or see something that doesn't translate into proper boating etiquette, avoid it, it's a huge lake.
The summers are short and life's even shorter...a little wake in the Weirs channel is nothing to stress about.
Weirs Archimedes when you need him??
Ahem!!!! the only wake I want to stress about is my own and by then it will be to late
Retired Ole Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Retired Ole Guy For This Useful Post:
NHBUOY (08-27-2013), VitaBene (08-28-2013)
Old 08-27-2013, 01:08 PM   #42
NH_boater
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 298
Thanks: 14
Thanked 147 Times in 62 Posts
Default

I live by the Alton no wake zone and seen everything from barely crawling to full plane thru the NWZ. Life is too short to get all bunched up on this. I feel bad for those who wait around for the next infraction. If you dock on the lake, especially near NWZ's where people are coming off and on plane, you will be affected by passing boats. People on the lake behave a lot like the same people on our roads.

Better to just enjoy the lake. I try to do this and most days I do.
NH_boater is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NH_boater For This Useful Post:
SOB (08-28-2013)
Old 08-31-2013, 11:38 PM   #43
mowtorman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 105
Thanks: 45
Thanked 60 Times in 40 Posts
Default Enjoyment

Couldn't agree more with the right to enjoy beautiful days and sharing a natural resource. The issue to me is safety overall, which is compromised by mixed use, high volume and careless/discourteous behavior. Duoprops are meat cleavers that can do more damage in a shorter period of time than an alligator. People are swimming in the channel very close to power boats, exercising their right to enjoy themselves. There are other problem areas on the lake for sure, for example Center Harbor beach. A power boat with a mechanical issue or incapacitated driver could easily go straight across the swim raft. Nothing's ever a problem until after the fact, like pond skimming. In general prevention and common sense are a lot easier to deal with than fixing a problem after it occurs. One of the best tests of mixed use recreation will be next weekend when non powered craft take over the domain of powered craft. Gatherings of people with common interests are one thing, pursuit of contrived "world records" is another. The volume of power boats in the channel should be reduced with the event happening after Labor Day, though a lot of people will be putting their power boats away. Maybe we'll have our first tropical storm of the season and it will all be a moot point. Have to see what happens with the wakes of the Sophie and Doris and the big Carvers that like to put up big wakes in Weirs Bay with volumes of novice kayakers and other paddle craft. BTW - how many "F bombs" have you heard dropped in the channel this year?
mowtorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 10:19 PM   #44
Legionnaire70
Senior Member
 
Legionnaire70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 119
Thanks: 25
Thanked 31 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Anyone else witness the formula/Donzi that went screaming out of the channel at about 30 mph yesterday passing several boats along the way IN the channel?
I've seen a lot, that tops them all! What a tool!
Legionnaire70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2013, 11:56 AM   #45
BroadHopper
Senior Member
 
BroadHopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH / Bozeman MO
Posts: 4,738
Thanks: 2,262
Thanked 826 Times in 574 Posts
Default Was it a red one?

I recall a red boat with NJ registration going crazy in Saunders Bay.
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day.
BroadHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 12:28 PM   #46
chris410
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 15
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Speaking of bad boating etiquette, I launched from the "new" public ramp in Alton bay on Saturday. Headed up towards Wolfeboro, while waiting in line with the rest of the boats I must have been cut in line by three other boats who came way after me. All with bigger boats tan mine who probably thought they were more important. Then after getting lunch in Wolfeboro, I see another boat tag a sailboat that was docked pretty good, I wasn’t too close to the action so I wasn’t sure what the outcome was, but to me, it looked like the offending party just took off.

The best part is when I went to pull my boat out of the water at the ramp. The boaters in front of me just decided to pull their much larger and newer boat half out of the water proceeding to block the entire ramp , The wife was driving and the husband was doing something up on the boat, I figured he would come down and move the boat/truck into a better location eventually, So i tried to be patient and after the minutes just tick away, he has no intention of doing that. So I give him a friendly toot toot of the horn. And he flips out on me telling me there is another car in front of him and to just “chill out bro!”

Yes there was another boat/truck in front of him, but he had many other options he could have taken other then completly blocking the ramp. He could have moved up another 35 feet so that it looked like he was at least trying to get out of my way, he could have asked the other boater to move his truck/trailer up so that they were not blocking the ramp, he could have moved off to the side so that he wasn’t blocking the ramp, he could have drove out the entrance so that he was blocking the ramp. Instead he decided to be a rude and inconsiderate person and block the ramp and give me attitude.

Besides that, still a nice day at the lake!
chris410 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2013, 01:36 PM   #47
salty dog
Senior Member
 
salty dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Beverly Cove, Ma
Posts: 310
Thanks: 238
Thanked 132 Times in 68 Posts
Default Behaving badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris410 View Post
Speaking of bad boating etiquette, I launched from the "new" public ramp in Alton bay on Saturday. Headed up towards Wolfeboro, while waiting in line with the rest of the boats I must have been cut in line by three other boats who came way after me. All with bigger boats tan mine who probably thought they were more important. Then after getting lunch in Wolfeboro, I see another boat tag a sailboat that was docked pretty good, I wasn’t too close to the action so I wasn’t sure what the outcome was, but to me, it looked like the offending party just took off.

The best part is when I went to pull my boat out of the water at the ramp. The boaters in front of me just decided to pull their much larger and newer boat half out of the water proceeding to block the entire ramp , The wife was driving and the husband was doing something up on the boat, I figured he would come down and move the boat/truck into a better location eventually, So i tried to be patient and after the minutes just tick away, he has no intention of doing that. So I give him a friendly toot toot of the horn. And he flips out on me telling me there is another car in front of him and to just “chill out bro!”

Yes there was another boat/truck in front of him, but he had many other options he could have taken other then completly blocking the ramp. He could have moved up another 35 feet so that it looked like he was at least trying to get out of my way, he could have asked the other boater to move his truck/trailer up so that they were not blocking the ramp, he could have moved off to the side so that he wasn't blocking the ramp, he could have drove out the entrance so that he was blocking the ramp. Instead he decided to be a rude and inconsiderate person and block the ramp and give me attitude.

Besides that, still a nice day at the lake!
Sounds like another "behaving badly at the launch ramp" youtube vid. It is unfortunate but as another poster stated, it's just like on the highways, you're going to witness all sorts of behavior. I had been launching the last few years from Alton (Downing's) and they were usually always there on weekends directing activities, keeping the flow going and helping to keep some semblance of "who's on first". It was also nice because you could keep your trailer there overnight or for a week. That's changed now with the state taking over. I tried once earlier this season on a busy Sunday and it was very zooy but certainly that can be the case for any public launch ramp on a weekend day. I made a change of plans, now keeping my boat at Andrew's Marina full time, on the trailer, and when I go do a put in, it's pretty much just me. Nice. It's pleasant to start and end the day with low blood pressure!
__________________
I'd rather be relax'n at Winnipesaukee
salty dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2013, 07:13 PM   #48
Dave R
Senior Member
 
Dave R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,692
Thanks: 216
Thanked 580 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris410 View Post
Speaking of bad boating etiquette, I launched from the "new" public ramp in Alton bay on Saturday. Headed up towards Wolfeboro, while waiting in line with the rest of the boats I must have been cut in line by three other boats who came way after me. All with bigger boats tan mine who probably thought they were more important. Then after getting lunch in Wolfeboro, I see another boat tag a sailboat that was docked pretty good, I wasn’t too close to the action so I wasn’t sure what the outcome was, but to me, it looked like the offending party just took off.

The best part is when I went to pull my boat out of the water at the ramp. The boaters in front of me just decided to pull their much larger and newer boat half out of the water proceeding to block the entire ramp , The wife was driving and the husband was doing something up on the boat, I figured he would come down and move the boat/truck into a better location eventually, So i tried to be patient and after the minutes just tick away, he has no intention of doing that. So I give him a friendly toot toot of the horn. And he flips out on me telling me there is another car in front of him and to just “chill out bro!”

Yes there was another boat/truck in front of him, but he had many other options he could have taken other then completly blocking the ramp. He could have moved up another 35 feet so that it looked like he was at least trying to get out of my way, he could have asked the other boater to move his truck/trailer up so that they were not blocking the ramp, he could have moved off to the side so that he wasn’t blocking the ramp, he could have drove out the entrance so that he was blocking the ramp. Instead he decided to be a rude and inconsiderate person and block the ramp and give me attitude.

Besides that, still a nice day at the lake!

When people at that ramp block the tie down area, I just pull up to the left next to them and do my work on the hillside.

Ever since it became a public ramp, the parking accuracy has suffered dramatically. This guy did a particularly poor job of parking:
Attached Images
 
__________________
Captain of "Mischief Managed"
Say hi if you see us on the lake.
Dave R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2013, 06:26 AM   #49
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,529
Thanks: 446
Thanked 791 Times in 544 Posts
Default

So when one goes over the line, they all go over the line. I hate that.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2013, 05:28 PM   #50
Dave R
Senior Member
 
Dave R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,692
Thanks: 216
Thanked 580 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tis View Post
So when one goes over the line, they all go over the line. I hate that.
Nope, just those two. The sad thing is, I could have moved the trailer on the left by simply picking it up. Also, the trailer on the far right is miniscule, so even if the blue trailer had been parked over the line a little, the would still be room for three trailers in three spots instead of four. I got the last available spot that morning so the poor parking did not affect me, but I imagine the next person at the ramp saw that blue trailer and no empty spots and was rather irritated.
__________________
Captain of "Mischief Managed"
Say hi if you see us on the lake.
Dave R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2013, 06:07 PM   #51
BroadHopper
Senior Member
 
BroadHopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH / Bozeman MO
Posts: 4,738
Thanks: 2,262
Thanked 826 Times in 574 Posts
Default Line

I would have taken the next space and park between the lines and look like the nice guy.
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day.
BroadHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2013, 07:56 PM   #52
upthesaukee
Senior Member
 
upthesaukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 4,690
Thanks: 1,404
Thanked 1,423 Times in 772 Posts
Red face Worst part of the parking problem is...

...the license plate is a NH Conservation Vanity plate and the name is "Guide" . Is he/she actually a guide???? Ovey!
__________________
I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!
upthesaukee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2013, 07:24 AM   #53
Dave R
Senior Member
 
Dave R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,692
Thanks: 216
Thanked 580 Times in 338 Posts
Default

One thing to note, that photo was taken at around 9 AM and there may have been fisherman that had already called it quits and gone home then. There's no way to know what the parking situation was like when Guide+ parked. For all we know, 10 rigs may have been parked poorly and that one was parked tightly in the only available space.
__________________
Captain of "Mischief Managed"
Say hi if you see us on the lake.
Dave R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2013, 12:24 PM   #54
Dave R
Senior Member
 
Dave R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,692
Thanks: 216
Thanked 580 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by upthesaukee View Post
...the license plate is a NH Conservation Vanity plate and the name is "Guide" . Is he/she actually a guide???? Ovey!
Might actually refer to the seeing-eye dog that helped the driver park the rig.
__________________
Captain of "Mischief Managed"
Say hi if you see us on the lake.
Dave R is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.24504 seconds