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Old 09-20-2015, 08:54 AM   #1
TCC
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Default Gasoline prices

I suspect that most of us have been pleased with the relatively low gas prices we've enjoyed this summer, but one thing strikes me as odd.

For may years when I lived in Maine and worked in NH, I would buy my gasoline in NH as the prices here were consistently about a dime per gallon lower. For the past several months, however, the situation seems to be reversed.

Yesterday the lowest price I found in the "greater metro" Wolfeboro area was $2.219/gal. Our local station was at $2.299. As it happened, we had to make a trip into Maine where, without any searching, I was able to fill my tank for $2.179 at a major brand station.

Did I miss something? (It's been known to happen.) Did the state significantly raise our gasoline taxes recently? Just curious.
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Old 09-20-2015, 09:28 AM   #2
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Default GasBuddy

According to GasBuddy the trend continues downward. Average price in NH is $2.22 and the lowest price is $1.98 in Londoderry. Lowest price in the area is $2.09 at the Oasis Gas on Rte 106 in Laconia. It's $2.01 with the Cumbie card at Weirs Cumberland.

Irving on Messer St. Laconia currently has the cheapest premium at $2.48. With the Cumbie card its $2.40 at the Weirs station.

Gas on the lake is $2.74 at Lakeport Landing. Thurston is still $2.98. I notice no one at patronizing Thurston's.
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Old 09-20-2015, 10:30 AM   #3
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I wonder why Melvin Village and Ambrose Cove are still at $3.30 or so?

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Old 09-20-2015, 01:17 PM   #4
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I wonder why Melvin Village and Ambrose Cove are still at $3.30 or so?

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Because some are still willing to pay for convenience and the marinas are willing to take advantage.
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:10 PM   #5
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Because some are still willing to pay for convenience and the marinas are willing to take advantage.
Also, I'm sure they don't go thru it that fast so there price is based on what they paid.
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Old 09-20-2015, 08:34 PM   #6
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Default You guys are lucky...

Gas at Kettle Cove Marina on Sebago has been $4.25/gal all summer.
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Old 09-21-2015, 03:43 AM   #7
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Where does the gasoline come from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Oil_Refinery

There's no oil refineries in any of the six new england states, but there is a big Irving Oil refinery, 300,000-bbl/day, in Saint John, New Brunswick, which definitely helps to keep the gasoline and heating oil prices lower for the new england area.

New Jersey has three, Pennsylvania has four, and Delaware has one oil refinery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_refineries

So's it could be the lower price in Maine is a result of it being closer to Saint John via the atlantic.

Suggest you look at the list of refineries around the world to get a comparison on how big is 300,000-bbl/day.

"As of January, 2015 there are 137 operating oil refineries in the United States" with none in the six new england states.
...............

Laconia, NH: 43-31-39 N x 71-28-13 W

Irving Oil refinery - Saint John, New Brunswick: 45-16-44 N x 66-0-45 W
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Old 09-21-2015, 08:21 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by noreast View Post
Also, I'm sure they don't go thru it that fast so there price is based on what they paid.
I see this as a factor when the prices are dropping. Maybe someone in the business can chime in to correct me. How I think it works:

A station pays a back door price at time of delivery.

When a competing station gets a delivery with a lower back door price their retail price is lower.

The consumer chooses the lower price station thus expediting the liquidation of its inventory.

The higher priced station sells its inventory more slowly.

When the lower priced station gets another, cheaper, delivery the price difference is made even greater.

Now the higher priced station is really stuck and may have to capitulate to selling at a loss to keep the cash coming in and more importantly, get access to cheaper product coming into the back door.
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Old 09-21-2015, 09:26 AM   #9
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This is true. Lakeport Landing sells tons of gas so they are the price leader because of turn over. Thurston does not sell as much gas, turn over is low so their price is higher. However the opposite can happen Lakeport Landing may need to raise price when inventory cost more. Thurston price remains the same and eventually LL price may exceed Thurston's when inventory price is high. It's a crazy circle!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
I see this as a factor when the prices are dropping. Maybe someone in the business can chime in to correct me. How I think it works:

A station pays a back door price at time of delivery.

When a competing station gets a delivery with a lower back door price their retail price is lower.

The consumer chooses the lower price station thus expediting the liquidation of its inventory.

The higher priced station sells its inventory more slowly.

When the lower priced station gets another, cheaper, delivery the price difference is made even greater.

Now the higher priced station is really stuck and may have to capitulate to selling at a loss to keep the cash coming in and more importantly, get access to cheaper product coming into the back door.
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Old 09-21-2015, 03:42 PM   #10
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Price of petrol.

From what I read, it is the Saudi government that is flooding the world market.
The intent is to shut down the tar sands or whatever the correct name is.
Opinions vary. The tar sands oil from Canada and the US require somewhere above $60.00 to break even. Experts of course vary on this price.
All is a gamble by the Saudi government.
Yes, todays price is an advantage to the average Joe/Jane purchasing gasoline.
But this could all end quickly if the Saudi government cuts back.

But back to the Lakes Region. The lowering of gasoline prices is a good thing for this seasonal industry. Although locals may not appreciate the increased traffic, money does come into the area from those out of state coming here.
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:02 PM   #11
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Default Gas

Got gas at West Alton last week $2.68
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:22 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by TCC View Post
I suspect that most of us have been pleased with the relatively low gas prices we've enjoyed this summer, but one thing strikes me as odd.

For may years when I lived in Maine and worked in NH, I would buy my gasoline in NH as the prices here were consistently about a dime per gallon lower. For the past several months, however, the situation seems to be reversed.

Yesterday the lowest price I found in the "greater metro" Wolfeboro area was $2.219/gal. Our local station was at $2.299. As it happened, we had to make a trip into Maine where, without any searching, I was able to fill my tank for $2.179 at a major brand station.

Did I miss something? (It's been known to happen.) Did the state significantly raise our gasoline taxes recently? Just curious.
Been reading the forum for about 5 years and have gotten great insight and recommendations on dining, boating and recreation around Lake Winni. Thought I could share some of my knowledge on this topic.

Taxes are cheaper in NH by about $0.06. All in, gasoline taxes in NH are about $0.42 per gallon and Maine about $0.48 per gallon. The anamoly you reference could be the result of Maine requiring more of it's counties to use Reformulated Gasoline this year or due to the seasonal transitioning this month to higher RVP gasoline, "winter gas", which is cheaper.
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
I see this as a factor when the prices are dropping. Maybe someone in the business can chime in to correct me. How I think it works:

A station pays a back door price at time of delivery.

When a competing station gets a delivery with a lower back door price their retail price is lower.

The consumer chooses the lower price station thus expediting the liquidation of its inventory.

The higher priced station sells its inventory more slowly.

When the lower priced station gets another, cheaper, delivery the price difference is made even greater.

Now the higher priced station is really stuck and may have to capitulate to selling at a loss to keep the cash coming in and more importantly, get access to cheaper product coming into the back door.
A very simplistic answer:

For your average service station they really don't care the price they paid for what they currently have in their tanks (last delivery), they are pricing to cover their next delivery; i.e. replacement cost. Essentially the initial investment in their service station included full storage tanks of gasoline. They then sell that gasoline to raise the funds to purchase more gasoline and in the process they hopefully make a couple of cents net profit. That is how they can make money when prices go up OR down. By and large, service stations prefer declining/lower prices.
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Old 11-17-2015, 07:56 AM   #14
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Default .....2.74/gal-NH-DOT gas price in Gilford

Next time you drive by the NH-Dept of Transportation state gas pump in Gilford, across from Miles Marine, a Citgo convenience, and Lily Pond, you should definately be happy to have the choice to go buy your gas at the nearby Citgo at the regular market rate of about 2.09/gal, and not the 30-month contract DOT price of 2.74, which is the state's price all the time from now till July 31, 2017.

Oh well....who knew....that's hindsight....at the time 2.74 probably was a super deal or something .....article about it in today's Nov 17 LaDaSun.

According to the article, the Town of Gilford is exempt from paying the state gasoline excise tax, or something, and also switched from the DOT to the nearby Citgo when Town Administrator, Scott Dunn, recently saw the price difference. Have to wonder if the DOT posts their price of 2.74 at the pump? Does the DOT post their price so anyone using a town DOT payment card will know what it costs?

Having the actual price/gal posted on the pump could be a great incentive for the DOT to think long and hard before making the choice to get in on the wrong end of a 6,214,563-gasoline pre-buy agreement. Is that correct.....is it a 6.2-million gallon pre-buy ....or is it 6.2-million dollars of gasoline pre-buy... ?

Maybe someone could attach a 2.74/gal notice to the pumps at the Gilford DOT filling station that is visible from the road just so people will know what a good deal they get at the local market price of 2.09 ..... some good news for which to be thankful at Thanksgiving. Just knowing it costs 2.74 would seemingly get the wheels turning to figure a way out to save some big tax-payer bucks ....... this is not exactly brain surgery.

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...g-to-the-pumps
........

The NH-DOT fuel station. located in Gilford, has two pumps, one gasoline and one diesel, and they indicate the number of gallons, but not the price. There's no indication of the price anywhere ......so's maybe the price could be shown with a small hand written sign .....just so the town and state employees using the pumps would know the gas and diesel they are pumping is costing 2.74/gal, and this is the price until July 31, 2017.

No one knows what the price will be 12-months from now, but for now, it seems a little wacky that the state pump sells gas for 2.74 when just across the road, the Citgo is selling for market rate 2.09. If the actual State of NH price were indicated on the pump.....that could be a stimulus for the State to try to get a more competitive price.

It doesn't take too much thought to realize the Citgo across the road there is selling it for a lot less. The Cumberland gas in the Weirs has gas going for 2.009 today without the cumby discount.

After all ......when you, the driver of the state or town vehicle .....be it either a police car or snow plow truck, are not paying for the gas or the diesel with your own money ..... does it really make any difference how much it costs to you? Apparently no, because there is no price on the pump there......and, unless you are a teenager....there's no such thing ....as a free gallon of gas!
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:52 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Next time you drive by the NH-Dept of Transportation state gas pump in Gilford, across from Miles Marine, a Citgo convenience, and Lily Pond, you should definately be happy to have the choice to go buy your gas at the nearby Citgo at the regular market rate of about 2.09/gal, and not the 30-month contract DOT price of 2.74, which is the state's price all the time from now till July 31, 2017.
I'm not quite sure if I understand what the state is paying.
If the state has a contract @ $2.74, why don't the state vehicles just fill up at a local station at much less a cost? Not void the contract just buy at a regular station. Or is the bureaucracy and paperwork too complicated?
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Old 12-12-2015, 08:33 PM   #16
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As far as I know, which is not very far, the state and town and county employees use DOT gas cards to access the gas and diesel pumps for their state, town, and county vehicles. It tells the DOT who is purchasing the gas, but cannot be used at any other gas station like Exxon, Irving, or Citgo. Paying 2.74/gal at a DOT fuel station is their only place to gas/diesel up ...... such a deal ...... 2.74 till July 31, 2017.

Also, something about the state and federal gasoline excise taxes ...... could well be the municipal government agencies are exempt from the excise taxes, and all the Dept of Transportation gas that gets pumped into an agency vehicle is tax exempt, or something!

Gasoline today is selling for 1.979 at the two gas stations, Irving and Citgo, at Rt 93, exit 25-Holderness ...... which is way less than the state price of 2.74 ... which probably excludes the excise taxes as well.
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Old 12-16-2015, 01:21 PM   #17
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I'm not quite sure if I understand what the state is paying.
If the state has a contract @ $2.74, why don't the state vehicles just fill up at a local station at much less a cost? Not void the contract just buy at a regular station. Or is the bureaucracy and paperwork too complicated?
Because there would be a savings, makes way to much sense. Whats-sa-matter with you??
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Old 12-16-2015, 01:57 PM   #18
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1.99 at the "on the run " Mobil in Wakefield

1.97 at the Shell station at Rt 16 exit 13 in Rochester.... $1.77 with car-wash
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Old 01-18-2016, 09:40 AM   #19
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Default ........ 1.799

Rt 93-Exit 25, Holderness; both the Citgo and the Irving have it for 1.799/gal ...... what this area needs is 99-cent gasoline!
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Old 01-18-2016, 01:33 PM   #20
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If these gas prices keep up, I could find myself spending much more time at the lake next summer... All of a sudden, those midweek trips for a boat ride, so much more reasonable...
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Old 01-18-2016, 03:58 PM   #21
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Iran, now adding their stockpiles to the glut of oil, should cause prices to drop even lower.
Right now, a barrel of oil is cheaper than the cost of the barrel they put it in.

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Old 01-18-2016, 04:16 PM   #22
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Nice to see prices of the raw crude ingredient going down so far. However, have you noticed that the gas stations continue to hold prices fairly high? When crude goes up, the prices change hourly....always up. When the prices drop, they are very slow to be rolled back. My conclusion is that the gas dealers are not being truthful to their customers. We have seen oil drop from over $100 barrel to now $30 or less. But gas prices continue to hover near $2.00....or slightly below, down from the high $3's. It is time for folks to start making some noise.
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Old 01-18-2016, 06:01 PM   #23
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The cost of the raw material for gasoline has come down greatly.

The price you pay at the pump includes refining and taxes.

I doubt those costs have declined much if any.
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Old 01-18-2016, 06:27 PM   #24
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I see on Yahoo News, a few stations are having a gas-war and are down to 47 cents a gallon. Unfortunately, they are in Michigan!
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Old 01-18-2016, 09:11 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
The cost of the raw material for gasoline has come down greatly.

The price you pay at the pump includes refining and taxes.

I doubt those costs have declined much if any.
Agreed...

Suppose you want to make a grilled cheese sandwich. You go to the store and buy cheese (crude oil), bread (refining), and butter (taxes). If each of these cost $1, your sandwich costs $3 to make. Now suppose cheese is on sale for half price. The cost of your sandwich went down to $2.50, not $1.50 because the other ingredients still cost the same.
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Old 10-20-2017, 06:15 PM   #26
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October 20, 2017: Route 93-Exit 25, Holderness, NH - Plymouth State University area; the Citgo Gas station there is down to $2.339/gal, and the Irving Gas, next door, is down to $2.349/gal.
.......
Monday, Oct 30: a big rain falls and the Pemigewasset River floods both gas stations with about 3-5 feet of standing water for maybe five days before draining down river.
.......
About two weeks later; on Sunday, Nov 5; and both gas stations are still closed after the big rain on Monday, Oct 30, left them flooded under water for about five days.
.......
Nov 16: 'When the cats away, the mice will play' .... or something like that? Irving is up and running, having repaired their flood water problems ... Citgo is still closed. Seems like the Irving has raised its price, now up to 2.499, what with the Citgo next door still closed due to the flood water damage? These two gas stations, Irving and Citgo, located side by side, have had the lowest prices around that I've seen for the last few years, but now with the Citgo still closed due to the flood it seems like the Irving has adjusted its price up."Say hey buddy .... das Citgo is still closed.....is time to raise our price!"

Would Irving do that? What do you think? Nooooooooo ......they would never ever do that!

Irving must have spent considerable money repairing the flood problem what with all the many Gaftek trucks in place at the closed station for maybe one week or longer. So far, there's no sign, no Gaftek service vehicles, working to get the Citgo re-opened, and it is closed.

According to Wikipedia, Citgo is wholly owned by the Venezuela national oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela, and Wikipedia says filings at the U.S. Federal Election Commission report that Citgo gave $500,000 to the Donald Trump presidential inauguration ....... which is basically a political slush fund not just for the inauguration ..... so, come on Citgo, you need to get down to the underground storage tanks and get to work fixing your flood problem, and re-open the Holderness Citgo so's the low gasoline prices, Irving and Citgo, should return. After all, a gallon of gas is a gallon of gas, and all that usually matters to me is the price, but now, knowing about this $500,000 inauguration contribution ...... like, who knew you could feel guilty about buying the less expensive gas because it has a connection to Trump ......ugh! .......me-thinks I switch over to the Irving, a Canadian oil company based in Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada.......which, according to Wikipedia.....is rumored to support the Liberal Party of Canada, party of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

....oh well.....thankfully, the Holderness Citgo is still closed now on December 2, with no one making any repairs to the flood damage, at this time, so feel'n guilty about buying the low price Citgo gas because Citgo was a Trump $500,000 inauguration contributor is not an issue....... at this time ..... thankfully?

.............

Drone photos: Monday, October 30, 2017, taken at sunset; a big rain storm causes the Pemigewasset River to overflow into Holderness, NH; flooding the Irving and Citgo gasoline stations, Plymouth State University properties and athletic fields, LaPointe Automotive, some homes and businesses, and surrounding fields and woods. Very smart planning for three of the large PSU athletic facilities, the ice rink, the practice shed, and the new Alwell(sp?) being built high up on a berm, or up on stilts to stay dry whenever the Pemi floods.

http://www.nh1.com/news/new-hampshir...-october-storm
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