Foater's/Citizen water rescue story

Skip · 02-26-2006, 09:54 AM

It hasn't hit the electronic edition yet, but in today's print edition of the Foster's Sunday Citizen writer Geoff Cunningham has an excellent piece on page A9 about recovering vehicles (cars, trucks, atvs, snowmobiles, etc.) that have gone through the ice.

It tells you everything you want to know about the recovery firms, techniques, equipment and actual recoveries. Perspectives on laws & insurance are covered by interviews with recovery firms, Marine Patrol and insurance company executives.

A really neat piece that answers a lot of questions asked over the years here on this site!

If/when it becomes available electronically (and no one else beats me to it) I will modify this post with the link.

Foster's Sunday Citizen Water Rescue Link thanks CHSLTD!

Worth the price of the paper alone (if you don't subscribe) at $1.75....and no, I don't work for George J. Foster & Company...

CHSLTD · 02-26-2006, 10:33 AM

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll...065/-1/CITIZEN

Skip · 02-27-2006, 10:42 AM

In a followup story to yesterday's article, Geoff Cunningham, Foster's/Citizen Staff reporter explores the possiblity that current regulations may be changed to shorten the amount of time an owner has to recover his property.

Read about online at the Foster's/Citizen site at:

State May Shorten Recovery Times article

Skip

Silver Duck · 02-27-2006, 07:48 PM

I'm all for getting sunken vehicles out of the water quickly, but Winter is Winter and we can get some very rough stretches of weather.

I'd really hate to see one of the recovery team injured or killed trying to raise the darned thing during a roaring blizzard. I'd like to hear what Winniddivers thinks of this idea!

Silver Duck

CHSLTD · 02-27-2006, 07:52 PM

I don't think it's so much to endanger the recovery teams. (They can refuse an attempt until it's safe) as to let people know that there can and will be fines if they sink something in the lake.

Winnipesaukee Divers · 02-28-2006, 07:42 AM

I sure am glad I'm out of that business... The worst part of the job is the waiting and once you get cold, you can't get warm again. The last job I did with Tom & the boys, getting the truck out just took an hour or so, however we wasted the whole day with one delay after another, waiting for the wrecker, the lift bags, a better saw and what not, it all takes time.

This new, proposed law with a defined time limit is insane. If only they were part of this recovery process for just one time they would have a total different view on it. This guy Connor is concerned about the paint on the vehicle leaching out and contaminating the water? Get real... This guy has been sniffing the chemicals in his lab for to long. The law is just fine the way it is, don't rush the folks who are putting their lives on the line to get this job done.

secondcurve · 03-01-2006, 10:57 PM

Winnidiver:

I have to agree with chlstd, I'm all for more penalties and deadlines for those people who are stupid enough to lose a vehicle in the lake. Simply put, when it is warm out you should keep your truck, sled, ATV, etc. in the garage. If you chose to ignore common sense then you should be subject to stiff penalties. I made the decision in late January that I wouldn't be sledding on Winni this year due to the fact that late ice can be dangerous. Unfortunately, I expect that we will have another fatality before ice out. I pray that I am wrong.

I do understand your concern as a recovery expert, but the recovery expert always has the option of saying no to a job until conditions are such that it is safe. The next time I'm on Winnipesaukee will be in my boat......life is too short already. By the way, why did you get out of the recovery business?

fpartri497 · 03-02-2006, 07:32 AM

Yesterday, while driving by 19 mi. bay, there was a car driving around on the ice about a 1/2 mi. out from shore. quite stupid In my opinion. and futher south, I saw another car on the Ice. Why dont people understand that Its not safe Ice this year?

fpartri497

Winnipesaukee Divers · 03-02-2006, 09:56 AM

So, you're in favor of a "stupidity tax", just think of the ramification of that... Once you open the door to punishing stupidly, think about the next time you decide to venture out onto the highways in snow, freezing rain, ice or any other condition other ideal and something happens. Could this be construed as stupid idea and since you think its okay for the state to punish you for it, will your insurance have to compensate you now.

Smart people do stupid things all the time. Do you think that guy with the brand new truck with the plow on it that went down in 19-mile bay said to himself? I think I'll just drive this puppy across the lake, what's the worst that can happen? I'm betting, this guy wasn't stupid and the thought never crossed this mind until it was to late. I'm sure he's being punished enough as we speak both financially and mentally without the state's help.

Why did I get out of the recovery business? Well basically, I was never really in it, I was just doing it to help the Tom and the boys out, I told them to keep the money they needed it more then me. I live to far from the lake and the winter is my busy season (I'm in the heating business). Now, it's for health reasons, I can't be in those cold conditions anymore.

codfisher · 03-02-2006, 12:23 PM

Ban autos/trucks from the lake...problem solved

secondcurve · 03-02-2006, 09:17 PM

Winnidiver:

Thanks for your response. I do enjoy your posts, although in this case we will have to agree to disagree. If a person buys a brand new truck and drives it out onto the lake in a winter when it has been incredibly warm without thinking about the risks, then he by definition is stupid. Also, I do think that people who do stupid things should be punished. Unfortunately, few in our society want to take responsibility for their actions. Maybe the previous poster is correct that it should be illegal to have vehicles designed for our roads on the ice. Again, thanks for your input.

upthesaukee · 03-02-2006, 11:02 PM

there can be a fine line between stupidity and inexperience. The guy who acts as airport manager for the ice runway in Alton Bay came over to the bay to check the ice conditions and thickness. What he found was the ice lacked the thickness for him to feel comfortable to bring his large truck with plow out onto the ice (experience). This was after having a couple of cold spells that seemingly developed strong ice.

Perhaps the gentleman at (in) 19 mile bay felt confident that the cold snap(s) had developed sufficiently safe ice when in fact (obviously) it had not. (inexperience ?).

I am reminded of what my Dad used to say to me when I would do something "stupid", especially more than once. "First time is an accident, the rest of the time it becomes stupidity!!!!"

secondcurve · 03-03-2006, 07:11 AM

Does anyone know how old the fellow is who lost his truck in 19 Mile Bay?

hazelnut · 03-03-2006, 08:04 AM

I should think age is irrelevant in this case. Stupid people come in all shapes and sizes, AND ages.

A Law against cars on the ice is not the answer. That is a HUGE can of worms. Next will be a law against Snow Machines on the ice. Then a law against bobhouses and then people etc. I think inexperience is the problem as has been stated.

It seems that some people do not value their lives as much as others. The person who makes that decision to drive a truck out on the ice when there are no other vehicles without first checking the conditions is not exactly an intelligent person in my book. Like all of you I have been monitoring weather/winni forum/newspapers/etc.etc.etc. to help form my decision to go or not go on the ice with a sled this year. Like most of you I chose not to. The risk is WAY too much for the reward. It isn't like the information is hard to get. So when a truck goes through I shake my head and think this person must have just woken up from a three month coma. Either that or they live in a shed with no electricity/TV/Newspaper/etc.

As far as shortening the recovery period: I can understand Winni diver's position but as was stated you can always refuse to do the recovery based on safety reasons. With that said I still say jack up the fines for those vehicles that go through. Maybe people will think twice before driving a vehicle over questionable ice. If I were a betting man i'd say probably not

02-26-2006, 09:54 AM	#1
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Foater's/Citizen water rescue story It hasn't hit the electronic edition yet, but in today's print edition of the Foster's Sunday Citizen writer Geoff Cunningham has an excellent piece on page A9 about recovering vehicles (cars, trucks, atvs, snowmobiles, etc.) that have gone through the ice. It tells you everything you want to know about the recovery firms, techniques, equipment and actual recoveries. Perspectives on laws & insurance are covered by interviews with recovery firms, Marine Patrol and insurance company executives. A really neat piece that answers a lot of questions asked over the years here on this site! If/when it becomes available electronically (and no one else beats me to it) I will modify this post with the link. Foster's Sunday Citizen Water Rescue Link *thanks CHSLTD!* Worth the price of the paper alone (if you don't subscribe) at $1.75....and no, I don't work for George J. Foster & Company... Last edited by Skip; 02-26-2006 at 10:59 AM.

02-26-2006, 10:33 AM	#2
CHSLTD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 93 Thanks: 23 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Link. http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll...065/-1/CITIZEN

02-27-2006, 10:42 AM	#3
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	State may shorten recovery period.... In a followup story to yesterday's article, Geoff Cunningham, Foster's/Citizen Staff reporter explores the possiblity that current regulations may be changed to shorten the amount of time an owner has to recover his property. Read about online at the Foster's/Citizen site at: State May Shorten Recovery Times article Skip

02-27-2006, 07:52 PM	#5
CHSLTD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 93 Thanks: 23 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	I don't think it's so much to endanger the recovery teams. I don't think it's so much to endanger the recovery teams. (They can refuse an attempt until it's safe) as to let people know that there can and will be fines if they sink something in the lake.

02-28-2006, 07:42 AM	#6
Winnipesaukee Divers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Exeter, NH or @ WCYC on weekends Posts: 250 Thanks: 7 Thanked 46 Times in 28 Posts	All I have to say is.... I sure am glad I'm out of that business... The worst part of the job is the waiting and once you get cold, you can't get warm again. The last job I did with Tom & the boys, getting the truck out just took an hour or so, however we wasted the whole day with one delay after another, waiting for the wrecker, the lift bags, a better saw and what not, it all takes time. This new, proposed law with a defined time limit is insane. If only they were part of this recovery process for just one time they would have a total different view on it. This guy Connor is concerned about the paint on the vehicle leaching out and contaminating the water? Get real... This guy has been sniffing the chemicals in his lab for to long. The law is just fine the way it is, don't rush the folks who are putting their lives on the line to get this job done.

02-27-2006, 07:48 PM	#4
Silver Duck Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Billerica, MA Posts: 364 Thanks: 40 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	I'm all for getting sunken vehicles out of the water quickly, but Winter is Winter and we can get some very rough stretches of weather. I'd really hate to see one of the recovery team injured or killed trying to raise the darned thing during a roaring blizzard. I'd like to hear what Winniddivers thinks of this idea! Silver Duck

03-01-2006, 10:57 PM	#7
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,084 Thanks: 1,267 Thanked 557 Times in 286 Posts	Winnidiver: I have to agree with chlstd, I'm all for more penalties and deadlines for those people who are stupid enough to lose a vehicle in the lake. Simply put, when it is warm out you should keep your truck, sled, ATV, etc. in the garage. If you chose to ignore common sense then you should be subject to stiff penalties. I made the decision in late January that I wouldn't be sledding on Winni this year due to the fact that late ice can be dangerous. Unfortunately, I expect that we will have another fatality before ice out. I pray that I am wrong. I do understand your concern as a recovery expert, but the recovery expert always has the option of saying no to a job until conditions are such that it is safe. The next time I'm on Winnipesaukee will be in my boat......life is too short already. By the way, why did you get out of the recovery business?

03-02-2006, 07:32 AM	#8
fpartri497 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Concord NH Posts: 681 Thanks: 97 Thanked 48 Times in 39 Posts	Dangerous Ice Conditions Yesterday, while driving by 19 mi. bay, there was a car driving around on the ice about a 1/2 mi. out from shore. quite stupid In my opinion. and futher south, I saw another car on the Ice. Why dont people understand that Its not safe Ice this year? fpartri497 __________________ dont worry be happy

03-02-2006, 09:56 AM	#9
Winnipesaukee Divers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Exeter, NH or @ WCYC on weekends Posts: 250 Thanks: 7 Thanked 46 Times in 28 Posts	Well, this sure opens a can of worms So, you're in favor of a "stupidity tax", just think of the ramification of that... Once you open the door to punishing stupidly, think about the next time you decide to venture out onto the highways in snow, freezing rain, ice or any other condition other ideal and something happens. Could this be construed as stupid idea and since you think its okay for the state to punish you for it, will your insurance have to compensate you now. Smart people do stupid things all the time. Do you think that guy with the brand new truck with the plow on it that went down in 19-mile bay said to himself? I think I'll just drive this puppy across the lake, what's the worst that can happen? I'm betting, this guy wasn't stupid and the thought never crossed this mind until it was to late. I'm sure he's being punished enough as we speak both financially and mentally without the state's help. Why did I get out of the recovery business? Well basically, I was never really in it, I was just doing it to help the Tom and the boys out, I told them to keep the money they needed it more then me. I live to far from the lake and the winter is my busy season (I'm in the heating business). Now, it's for health reasons, I can't be in those cold conditions anymore.

03-02-2006, 12:23 PM	#10
codfisher Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ban autos/trucks from the lake...problem solved

03-02-2006, 09:17 PM	#11
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,084 Thanks: 1,267 Thanked 557 Times in 286 Posts	Winnidiver: Thanks for your response. I do enjoy your posts, although in this case we will have to agree to disagree. If a person buys a brand new truck and drives it out onto the lake in a winter when it has been incredibly warm without thinking about the risks, then he by definition is stupid. Also, I do think that people who do stupid things should be punished. Unfortunately, few in our society want to take responsibility for their actions. Maybe the previous poster is correct that it should be illegal to have vehicles designed for our roads on the ice. Again, thanks for your input.

03-02-2006, 11:02 PM	#12
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,547 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,397 Thanked 1,918 Times in 1,061 Posts	A fine line... there can be a fine line between stupidity and inexperience. The guy who acts as airport manager for the ice runway in Alton Bay came over to the bay to check the ice conditions and thickness. What he found was the ice lacked the thickness for him to feel comfortable to bring his large truck with plow out onto the ice (experience). This was after having a couple of cold spells that seemingly developed strong ice. Perhaps the gentleman at (in) 19 mile bay felt confident that the cold snap(s) had developed sufficiently safe ice when in fact (obviously) it had not. (inexperience ?). I am reminded of what my Dad used to say to me when I would do something "stupid", especially more than once. "First time is an accident, the rest of the time it becomes stupidity!!!!" __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

03-03-2006, 07:11 AM	#13
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,084 Thanks: 1,267 Thanked 557 Times in 286 Posts	Does anyone know how old the fellow is who lost his truck in 19 Mile Bay?

03-03-2006, 08:04 AM	#14
hazelnut Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,348 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 508 Thanked 462 Times in 162 Posts	Age? Law? I should think age is irrelevant in this case. Stupid people come in all shapes and sizes, AND ages. A Law against cars on the ice is not the answer. That is a HUGE can of worms. Next will be a law against Snow Machines on the ice. Then a law against bobhouses and then people etc. I think inexperience is the problem as has been stated. It seems that some people do not value their lives as much as others. The person who makes that decision to drive a truck out on the ice when there are no other vehicles without first checking the conditions is not exactly an intelligent person in my book. Like all of you I have been monitoring weather/winni forum/newspapers/etc.etc.etc. to help form my decision to go or not go on the ice with a sled this year. Like most of you I chose not to. The risk is WAY too much for the reward. It isn't like the information is hard to get. So when a truck goes through I shake my head and think this person must have just woken up from a three month coma. Either that or they live in a shed with no electricity/TV/Newspaper/etc. As far as shortening the recovery period: I can understand Winni diver's position but as was stated you can always refuse to do the recovery based on safety reasons. With that said I still say jack up the fines for those vehicles that go through. Maybe people will think twice before driving a vehicle over questionable ice. If I were a betting man i'd say probably not