Transmission Problems

Greene's Basin Girl · 12-09-2010, 10:58 AM

My 2004 Ford Freestar van died on Route 93South yesterday. I was about 10 miles north of Concord. Luckily I have AAA plus so they will tow it up to 100 miles. I called my local mechanic and he said I should bring it to a bigger place then his. I wasn't sure where to tow it so I had AAA bring me to Irwin's in Laconia. The AAA tow truck driver then brought me all the way home to Moultonborough. Irwin is going to replace the torque converter, the oil pump and all the seals. They said the cost will be $1500.00. YUK!!! If there are any mechanics out there I would appreciate knowing what your thoughts are on the price they are going to charge me? It will be under warranty for 12,000 miles /1 year.

fpartri497 · 12-09-2010, 11:09 AM

AAA wil tow one time up to 200 Mi. with AAA +

unlimited towing up to 100 Mi. just signed up for AAA + last Mth.

AllAbourdon · 12-09-2010, 11:16 AM

I almost always have an independent mechanic work on the car if it is something either out of warranty or if it is too big of a job for me to tackle.

A good independent could probably hunt around for a used torque converter but buy a new pump and of course new seals. Even used parts often come with a warranty.

dpg · 12-09-2010, 12:04 PM

You haven't had your original price question answered yet so I'll try. I'm not a mechanic but my first impression is that it sounds reasonably at least by dealership standards. I had leaky seals in an '02 Explorer 4x4 front drive train and a transmission shop got 600.00 just for a seal replacement kit so they called it. Asking around at the time they were in the ball park. A mechanic I've known for many years didn't even want to attempt it.

robmac · 12-09-2010, 12:20 PM

My question would be what failed? you replace a torque converter when you rebuild the trans but normally they outlast the vehicle. Todays transmissions are electronically controled and are 9 out of 10 times the cause of the failure.If the pump failed why the need for all the seals? There are a few TSB's on the transaxle in that vehicle including an upshift problem.

TheProfessor · 12-09-2010, 06:20 PM

I am not a mechanic either. But have had some transmssion work done over the years.

Yes, all automatic transmission are electronically controlled now. And it could have been just the electonics that went.

Someone else can chime in here. You don't mention how many miles are on vehicle. If high then replace the entire transmission. A standard rebuilt is around $2,200 installed by most local mechanics. A used transmission is a gamble but I have done exactly that. I purchased a used automatic transmission off eB*y for $300.00 plus $100.00 shipping - about 4 years ago and transmission works perfectly.

Any rebuilt automatic transmission is only as good as the parts installed and the people that install (rebuild) the transmission. And you must ASK if they are going to replace the chip or computer module that controls the transmission. Most do not include this part and it should be replaced.

The dealers are all good people and do contribute to the local charities. The dealers should be supported. But on the flip side it might be to your advantage to ask around and find a good local mechanic shop. Ask your neighbors or ask the people in your church for a good local mechanic.

Mirror Lake's BB · 12-09-2010, 07:52 PM

The diagnosis doesn't seem correct. An oil light illuminating may require an oil pump replacement but not have anything to do with the torque converter. AND a torque converter problem which may cause the car to stop has nothing to do with the oil pump. And the seals (torque converter?)?? I would hope that someone on the forum could provide you with a mechanic that they are familiar with (I don't want to say "reputable" to imply that this mechanic/shop is not reputable) and have the car towed. To me, you seem to be at the mercy of the situation. Let us know how things work out.

old coot · 12-09-2010, 08:23 PM

The oil lamp serves as no warning for the transmission's oil pump, it indicates the presence of the engine's oil pressure. up-to-date torque converters have internal lock up clutches that fail and subsequently fill the transmission's hydraulic system and oil pump with debris.
I think you'll find that Irwin's assessment is an honest one.

Belmont Resident · 12-09-2010, 09:03 PM

He has done a lot of work where people have been told by the dealer it was a major problem that turned out to be nothing more than replacing minor components. Not always the case though.
I’ve not had good luck with dealers when it comes to transmission problems and would recommend going to an expert.
It’s been a crap shoot with Irwin Ford when it came to repairing my Ford truck.
I take mine to a diesel mechanic and to a dealer as a last resort.
Lastly I’m not sure how many miles you have on the vehicle or how you tend to drive but I have over 100k on my 2004 Super Duty that I’ve plowed snow with since it was bought and I’m still(knock on wood) on my original transmission.

Greene's Basin Girl · 12-10-2010, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

He has done a lot of work where people have been told by the dealer it was a major problem that turned out to be nothing more than replacing minor components. Not always the case though.
I’ve not had good luck with dealers when it comes to transmission problems and would recommend going to an expert.
It’s been a crap shoot with Irwin Ford when it came to repairing my Ford truck.
I take mine to a diesel mechanic and to a dealer as a last resort.
Lastly I’m not sure how many miles you have on the vehicle or how you tend to drive but I have over 100k on my 2004 Super Duty that I’ve plowed snow with since it was bought and I’m still(knock on wood) on my original transmission.

I guess I am at the mercy of Irwin's. My van has 111,000 miles on it.

dpg · 12-10-2010, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green's Basin Girl

I guess I am at the mercy of Irwin's. My van has 111,000 miles on it.

Unless they have started the work you are not at their mercy. Not sure of your situation but if you have the time make a few calls. They may not like it towed out of their after quoting the work but if it saves you hundreds tough for them.

Argie's Wife · 12-10-2010, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green's Basin Girl

I guess I am at the mercy of Irwin's. My van has 111,000 miles on it.

I'm not one to speak negatively about a local business unless I've had first-hand experience. I've been where you're at right now with a vehicle at that same dealership. DPG's advise is correct: unless they've started work, you're at no one's mercy. I highly recommend you take your business elsewhere.

Mirror Lake's BB · 12-10-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old coot

The oil lamp serves as no warning for the transmission's oil pump, it indicates the presence of the engine's oil pressure. up-to-date torque converters have internal lock up clutches that fail and subsequently fill the transmission's hydraulic system and oil pump with debris.
I think you'll find that Irwin's assessment is an honest one.

I jumped the gun on this one! I assumed the oil pump reference was for the engine oil pump which tells me to go elsewhere. How does it go, "don't pay any attention to that man behind the curtain"; that man being me.

fatlazyless · 12-10-2010, 12:03 PM

www.ktmauto.com in Plymouth NH, down beyond the old railroad depot would probably be my first choice. Plymouth has lots of poor folks with aging cars, all falling apart, without too much money for repairs, so the local car repair probably has cheaper repair rates, plus KTM is very good people and good mechanics.

robmac · 12-10-2010, 03:38 PM

If you go the used route check with Greenleaf auto parts,I think they are in Leominster Ma. they are a division of ford and give a part & labor warranty on major components.Could cut your overall cost,and if the converter came apart internally you'll find metal throughout the assembly(yes I have built transmissions) and you would have experienced issues with shifting prior to your failure due to loss of pump pressure from debris damage from converter.

patman · 12-11-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmac

if the converter came apart internally you'll find metal throughout the assembly(yes I have built transmissions) and you would have experienced issues with shifting prior to your failure due to loss of pump pressure from debris damage from converter.

Actually, anything that failed and turned into debris could dictate a new TC, not necessarily just the TC failing. Once there is metal floating around in the fluid, it's tough to get rid of it from all the nooks an crannies everywhere, and if you leave some behind, it can dislodge later, chew up the new parts, and snowball into more debris. On the transmission itself, complete disassembly and cleaning is part of a rebuild. Most TC's don't come apart, so it's problematic to clean them, and easier/safer in the long run to just replace them.

That said, if it's not a common problem for this trans, (and if the car isn't a spring chicken) replacing the trans and TC with a decent junkyard piece would probably be more cost effective. The downside with a junkyard part is the (lack of) warranty.

robmac · 12-11-2010, 04:41 PM

Patman, that's why I suggested Greenleaf they cover both part and labor in their warranty on major components ie.engine, transmission, differential, transfer case.

sa meredith · 12-11-2010, 05:05 PM

Car and politics...everyone is an expert...or their brother-in-law is. Or "they know a guy".
6/7 yrs old...100+K miles...American car...yeah, stuff is going to happen.
I worked at a Ford Dealership for 22 years.
Without voicing a specific opinion, as noone should until they inspected it themselves, or spoke to an expert that has looked at...all I'll say is this. Certainly a dealership is going to be more money. However, you will now have a 12/12000 warranty backed by Ford. If the work is not done properly, or the new tranny fails...and you are 100 200 300 miles from where ever, a Ford Dealer will honor the warranty, and get you back running again. If you had it done at "Easy Ed's Fast and Smooth Trannys" no one is going to care.
As an aside...if you spend $1500/$2000 now and another major repair comes along...I'd cut the cord.

robmac · 12-11-2010, 06:15 PM

You're right SA, however they are not putting in a certified Ford unit just a few pieces. I worked 35 yrs for GM and love the certa program just for that reason but you won't get that piece of mind from a converter and some seals.

12-09-2010, 10:58 AM	#1
Greene's Basin Girl Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 1,515 Thanks: 394 Thanked 527 Times in 269 Posts	Transmission Problems My 2004 Ford Freestar van died on Route 93South yesterday. I was about 10 miles north of Concord. Luckily I have AAA plus so they will tow it up to 100 miles. I called my local mechanic and he said I should bring it to a bigger place then his. I wasn't sure where to tow it so I had AAA bring me to Irwin's in Laconia. The AAA tow truck driver then brought me all the way home to Moultonborough. Irwin is going to replace the torque converter, the oil pump and all the seals. They said the cost will be $1500.00. YUK!!! If there are any mechanics out there I would appreciate knowing what your thoughts are on the price they are going to charge me? It will be under warranty for 12,000 miles /1 year.

12-09-2010, 11:09 AM	#2
fpartri497 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Concord NH Posts: 681 Thanks: 97 Thanked 48 Times in 39 Posts	transmission problems AAA wil tow one time up to 200 Mi. with AAA + unlimited towing up to 100 Mi. just signed up for AAA + last Mth. __________________ dont worry be happy

12-09-2010, 07:52 PM	#7
Mirror Lake's BB Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Wayne, PA & Mirror Lake Posts: 150 Thanks: 116 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts	Sounds Fishy To Me! The diagnosis doesn't seem correct. An oil light illuminating may require an oil pump replacement but not have anything to do with the torque converter. AND a torque converter problem which may cause the car to stop has nothing to do with the oil pump. And the seals (torque converter?)?? I would hope that someone on the forum could provide you with a mechanic that they are familiar with (I don't want to say "reputable" to imply that this mechanic/shop is not reputable) and have the car towed. To me, you seem to be at the mercy of the situation. Let us know how things work out.

12-09-2010, 09:03 PM	#9
Belmont Resident Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Belmont NH but prefer Jackman Maine Posts: 1,857 Thanks: 491 Thanked 409 Times in 251 Posts	Try forever transmission. He has done a lot of work where people have been told by the dealer it was a major problem that turned out to be nothing more than replacing minor components. Not always the case though. I’ve not had good luck with dealers when it comes to transmission problems and would recommend going to an expert. It’s been a crap shoot with Irwin Ford when it came to repairing my Ford truck. I take mine to a diesel mechanic and to a dealer as a last resort. Lastly I’m not sure how many miles you have on the vehicle or how you tend to drive but I have over 100k on my 2004 Super Duty that I’ve plowed snow with since it was bought and I’m still(knock on wood) on my original transmission.

12-10-2010, 12:03 PM	#14
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,528 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 296 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	www.ktmauto.com in Plymouth NH, down beyond the old railroad depot would probably be my first choice. Plymouth has lots of poor folks with aging cars, all falling apart, without too much money for repairs, so the local car repair probably has cheaper repair rates, plus KTM is very good people and good mechanics. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

12-09-2010, 11:16 AM	#3
AllAbourdon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 61 Thanks: 22 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	I almost always have an independent mechanic work on the car if it is something either out of warranty or if it is too big of a job for me to tackle. A good independent could probably hunt around for a used torque converter but buy a new pump and of course new seals. Even used parts often come with a warranty.

12-09-2010, 12:04 PM	#4
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,560 Thanks: 149 Thanked 229 Times in 166 Posts	You haven't had your original price question answered yet so I'll try. I'm not a mechanic but my first impression is that it sounds reasonably at least by dealership standards. I had leaky seals in an '02 Explorer 4x4 front drive train and a transmission shop got 600.00 just for a seal replacement kit so they called it. Asking around at the time they were in the ball park. A mechanic I've known for many years didn't even want to attempt it.

12-09-2010, 12:20 PM	#5
robmac Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Nashua,Meredith Posts: 951 Thanks: 213 Thanked 106 Times in 81 Posts	My question would be what failed? you replace a torque converter when you rebuild the trans but normally they outlast the vehicle. Todays transmissions are electronically controled and are 9 out of 10 times the cause of the failure.If the pump failed why the need for all the seals? There are a few TSB's on the transaxle in that vehicle including an upshift problem.

12-09-2010, 06:20 PM	#6
TheProfessor Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,062 Thanks: 17 Thanked 326 Times in 198 Posts	I am not a mechanic either. But have had some transmssion work done over the years. Yes, all automatic transmission are electronically controlled now. And it could have been just the electonics that went. Someone else can chime in here. You don't mention how many miles are on vehicle. If high then replace the entire transmission. A standard rebuilt is around $2,200 installed by most local mechanics. A used transmission is a gamble but I have done exactly that. I purchased a used automatic transmission off eB*y for $300.00 plus $100.00 shipping - about 4 years ago and transmission works perfectly. Any rebuilt automatic transmission is only as good as the parts installed and the people that install (rebuild) the transmission. And you must ASK if they are going to replace the chip or computer module that controls the transmission. Most do not include this part and it should be replaced. The dealers are all good people and do contribute to the local charities. The dealers should be supported. But on the flip side it might be to your advantage to ask around and find a good local mechanic shop. Ask your neighbors or ask the people in your church for a good local mechanic.

12-09-2010, 08:23 PM	#8
old coot Deceased Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 97 Thanks: 51 Thanked 13 Times in 8 Posts	The oil lamp serves as no warning for the transmission's oil pump, it indicates the presence of the engine's oil pressure. up-to-date torque converters have internal lock up clutches that fail and subsequently fill the transmission's hydraulic system and oil pump with debris. I think you'll find that Irwin's assessment is an honest one.

The Following User Says Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post:
Greene's Basin Girl (12-10-2010)

12-10-2010, 03:38 PM	#15
robmac Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Nashua,Meredith Posts: 951 Thanks: 213 Thanked 106 Times in 81 Posts	If you go the used route check with Greenleaf auto parts,I think they are in Leominster Ma. they are a division of ford and give a part & labor warranty on major components.Could cut your overall cost,and if the converter came apart internally you'll find metal throughout the assembly(yes I have built transmissions) and you would have experienced issues with shifting prior to your failure due to loss of pump pressure from debris damage from converter.

The Following User Says Thank You to robmac For This Useful Post:
Greene's Basin Girl (12-10-2010)

12-11-2010, 04:41 PM	#17
robmac Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Nashua,Meredith Posts: 951 Thanks: 213 Thanked 106 Times in 81 Posts	Patman, that's why I suggested Greenleaf they cover both part and labor in their warranty on major components ie.engine, transmission, differential, transfer case.

12-11-2010, 05:05 PM	#18
sa meredith Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 32 Thanked 352 Times in 137 Posts	many opinions Car and politics...everyone is an expert...or their brother-in-law is. Or "they know a guy". 6/7 yrs old...100+K miles...American car...yeah, stuff is going to happen. I worked at a Ford Dealership for 22 years. Without voicing a specific opinion, as noone should until they inspected it themselves, or spoke to an expert that has looked at...all I'll say is this. Certainly a dealership is going to be more money. However, you will now have a 12/12000 warranty backed by Ford. If the work is not done properly, or the new tranny fails...and you are 100 200 300 miles from where ever, a Ford Dealer will honor the warranty, and get you back running again. If you had it done at "Easy Ed's Fast and Smooth Trannys" no one is going to care. As an aside...if you spend $1500/$2000 now and another major repair comes along...I'd cut the cord.

12-11-2010, 06:15 PM	#19
robmac Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Nashua,Meredith Posts: 951 Thanks: 213 Thanked 106 Times in 81 Posts	You're right SA, however they are not putting in a certified Ford unit just a few pieces. I worked 35 yrs for GM and love the certa program just for that reason but you won't get that piece of mind from a converter and some seals.