Bahre property for sale?

[Pine Island Guy]

In the Wall Street Journal today, "Longview on Lake Winnipesaukee" Alton NH

16.56 acres, 3 bay boathouse, pictures look a lot like the Bahre estate, and includes a heliport... all for the low price of $49,000,000...

Listed by Landvest... if any forum members are interested...

(I'm sticking with Pine Island) -PIG

[wifi]

I'd settle for the tax revenue

[Happy Gourmand]

That would make a great retirement home and you could probably rent out one or 2 of the boat slips to help with the mortgage!

[BroadHopper]

I see a Tuftonboro lakefront was split up to 4 parcels. One home built in the late 1700's and the other in the 1800's. I hate to see them replace by McMansions.

Does anyone know if this is part of a 140 acre farm that was divided among 3 siblings? One is dying of brain cancer?

[tis]

Are you talking about Edgerly's, Broadhopper?

[Pine Island Guy]

Landvest also is representing the Edgerly property... i know it pretty well, my sister-in-law was part of the (extended) family and we spent some time there... in the end, it was owned by many decendents/relatives, some who wanted to keep it and others that lived out west and wanted to sell it... it is beautiful land and shorefront and very sad to see it sold and split up into lots... for those that are interested in buying...

http://www.landvest.com/property/197...nboro-NH-03816

-PIG

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Pine Island Guy

In the Wall Street Journal today, "Longview on Lake Winnipesaukee" Alton NH

16.56 acres, 3 bay boathouse, pictures look a lot like the Bahre estate, and includes a heliport... all for the low price of $49,000,000...

Listed by Landvest... if any forum members are interested...

(I'm sticking with Pine Island) -PIG

$49,000,000 good luck! Hopefully, he doesn't need the money from that white elephant.

[8gv]

I seriously considered this property. Then I realized my screen name would need to change. I don't like change so I'm no longer interested.

[fatlazyless]

..... a little background history on this Clay Point-Lake Winnipesaukee land....from 1937-1992 the land now occupied by the Bahre mansion was in part...a www.campalton.com softball field with an infield diamond and outfield known as second field......the outer edge of the outfield was the top of the waterfront embankment....... it was mostly used by the younger campers while the older guys played baseball on the baseball field called first field or something....can also remember going on snipe hunts for an evening activity.....back in the summer of 1964....running around looking for the very mysterious snipe all along the waterfront embankment there....and supposedly, before it became a boy's summer camp in 1937....it was a farm or ranch for horses

[bclaker]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

..... a little background history on this Clay Point-Lake Winnipesaukee land....from 1937-1992 the land now occupied by the Bahre mansion was in part...a www.campalton.com softball field with an infield diamond and outfield known as second field......the outer edge of the outfield was the top of the waterfront embankment....... it was mostly used by the younger campers while the older guys played baseball on the baseball field called first field or something....can also remember going on snipe hunts for an evening activity.....back in the summer of 1964....running around looking for the very mysterious snipe all along the waterfront embankment there....and supposedly, before it became a boy's summer camp in 1937....it was a farm or ranch for horses

Did those snipes take you for a swim?

[Slickcraft]

Snipe are very mysterious. My first night at Boy Scout camp not one of us 1st timers had any luck. That was even after the nice older guys supplied us with burlap bags and showed us the prime snipe runs. Of course the next year I brought bags for the 1st timers and helped pass the sport on.

[upthesaukee]

My first year at Camp Lawrence, back in the 50's, I had the honor of going out on a snipe hunt. We did have to let the counselors take the snipe away and release it. The next year, I got to help the newbie's on a snipe hunt.

One thing that amazed me was how much a snipe in a burlap bag looks like a brown feathered chicken.

Back to Mr. Bahre's house and his well-cared for snipe.

[nj2nh]

There's a video of the properties on Youtube. Cannot find the link, but if you put "longview lake winnipesaukee" in google, you will find it. Frightening.

[fatlazyless]

Long View is a good name for that location, because sitting on the edge of the high embankment, one can see all the way down the lake to the Center Harbor town dock area ....no kidding. I can remember sitting there back in 1964 at Camp Alton and watching the Mount Washington go by, going from Alton Bay to Wolfeboro, and the Uncle Sam which delivered all the daily mail to the camp. I was 12 in the summer of 1964 ...... the land now occupied by the Bahre mansion was a grassy softball field known as second field if I recall correct.

Oh well, that place pays some big property taxes to the Town of Alton, and the money has to come from somewhere or other ..... it will be interesting to see who buys it and how long it takes to get it sold.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Long View is a good name for that location, because sitting on the edge of the high embankment, one can see all the way down the lake to the Center Harbor town dock area ....no kidding. I can remember sitting there back in 1964 at Camp Alton and watching the Mount Washington go by, going from Alton Bay to Wolfeboro, and the Uncle Sam which delivered all the daily mail to the camp. I was 12 in the summer of 1964 ...... the land now occupied by the Bahre mansion was a grassy softball field known as second field if I recall correct.

Oh well, that place pays some big property taxes to the Town of Alton, and the money has to come from somewhere or other ..... it will be interesting to see who buys it and how long it takes to get it sold.

All true. It just is a shame it wasn't turned into a town park. What a spot.

[tis]

Think of all the property taxes the town would have missed out on if it was a park.

[Coolbreeze]

I remember, like it was yesterday as a kid hearing taps from Camp Alton through the woods in the summers while on Barndoor where we have a cottage.
I went to Camp Belknap for several summers. When I made the Ball team at Belknap, I learned that Camp Alton was our friendly rival. I was excited about getting to leave Belknap in a van to go play at Camp Alton. I envisioned escaping like Steve McQueen and swimming over to our house on Barndoor and hiding out, but for a 10 year old that was a far swim.
The groves of mature trees on the Camp Alton property were magnificent. I can close my eyes and remember the smell and sound of the breeze as it came through the canopies from the lake.
It was a incredible piece of land... and still is.
Nowadays, to pacify myself, I always remember that in the early 19th century, almost all of the trees surrounding the lake were cut down to make land for farmers and to supply the lumber mills, etc.
Like those trees that were cut down then, after the farmers or occupants left the area, a new population of trees found their niche and grew to fill in what we are enjoying now.
The trees that Mr. Bahre planted are growing in beautifully and beginning to mask the scars of construction much like what happened in the early 19th century. The forest will reclaim itself.
I was bummed out to see the development of the Camp into the estate. My childhood memories of hearing taps on those summer evenings will go with me to the grave.
I think all things considered, his estate was better than any multi cluster townhome development that was popular back then.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by tis

Think of all the property taxes the town would have missed out on if it was a park.

I'd be more worried about all the taxes they will miss in the future. I find it hard to believe there will be much of a market for a property like this one. Not exactly the lakeside getaway that most would look for.

Another Kimball Castle in the making?

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

I'd be more worried about all the taxes they will miss in the future. I find it hard to believe there will be much of a market for a property like this one. Not exactly the lakeside getaway that most would look for.

Another Kimball Castle in the making?

Tis: Government spends whatever taxes come through the door and in the case of the federal government a whole lot more. Neither of our lives or that of any Alton citizen would be any different if the Bahre estate was a park.

[tis]

You are right, they will spend every penny they get and more. They never stop wanting more taxes and when they get them they still want more.

Don't want to hijack this thread so will add I agree it will be a tough sell. It will have to go to someone really rich/famous. Look how long Walgreen's has taken to sell.

[SIKSUKR]

[IMG][/IMG]

[BroadHopper]

Actually there is an international market for such property. Don't be surprise a Russian billionaire move in anytime soon.

[Chaselady]

Ugly house. Not a lake house at all. Maybe the trees will get bigger and hide it.

[BroadHopper]

I can say the same for these style homes. I truly enjoyed the old Victorian Homes and the 'On Golden Pond' type structures.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Chaselady

Ugly house. Not a lake house at all. Maybe the trees will get bigger and hide it.

While it may not be your "style" or "taste", that is far from an ugly property. From an Architectural standpoint, that property is a throwback to the estate era of lakeside or "retreat" living.

We have a few properties like that over here on Sunapee and having the opportunity to have access to view the details that make these properties grand, is a treat I often get quite excited about.

While it is not modest by any stretch of the imagination, this estate very tasteful in its appointments.

It is a showcase of wealth, not a poor attempt to stab at the image of wealth.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I might consider it if it comes furnished!

[Alton Bay]

I will be forever grateful for the Bahres bringing Hannaford to Alton.

[ishoot308]

There's no denying that this is a stunning home, beautifully laid out on a gorgeous piece of property! The inside is very, very, tastefully decorated as well. I wonder if the furniture goes with it?...

It will certainly take a very wealthy person to buy this home but he / she will end up with the most beautiful estate on the lake.

I'll be curious to see what it finally sells for...If I had to guess, probably the mid to high thirties.

Dan

[hilltopper]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I'll be curious to see what it finally sells for...If I had to guess, probably the mid to high thirties.

Dan

I'm curious also. According the the Laconia Daily Sun it is being sold as one peice of property or two pieces of property. The smaller piece of property is being offered for $24 million and is assessed at $7,518,200. The larger piece of property is being offered for $25 million and is assessed at $11,462,300. That's quite a difference but could be common for these types of properties.

[Coolbreeze]

This explains why one never seems to see anyone on the dock by the lake, it would take 2 days to get there!
Incredible mansion, but not my style.

[FLAG!]

Lake Winnipesaukee has been destroyed by the one-upsmanship of the wealthy since the 1980's. I remember being blown away by the Black & Decker estate back around 1985? Since then the peaceful shoreline of traditional cottages nestled in the trees has been developed into shameless displays of wealth. So many of which are put up to be shown off for a year or two before a divorce or simple change of mind results in the property being sold off to the highest bidder. It's amazing to see how those with money to grease can get away with wetland abuse and zoning violations. Our own neighbor cleared acres of trees, put up a monstrous home, filled wetland and replaced an old 20 x 20 beach house with a 2 story guest house/boat house. For the record, it was understood he would only be allowed to rebuild where the beach house stood with a building with no larger a footprint. Within three years the property was sold and sold twice since then. Meanwhile, we have an old family property which many of us share having opportunity for 1 week in the summer and some random weekends the rest of the year(which we are grateful for) because zoning wont allow us to put another residence on our lot. We have over 20 acres of woodland, none of it wet, on a long private driveway shared by others but because the property isn't wide enough on Main Street we cannot build another residence. It sickens me what money can buy if you have an endless supply of it to grease the right people.

Oh by the way, we pay our taxes without complaint.

And how often do you see the mansion owners actually out enjoying the lake?

Sorry. I'll get off my soapbox. Had to vent. I feel better now.

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by jmen24

While it may not be your "style" or "taste", that is far from an ugly property. From an Architectural standpoint, that property is a throwback to the estate era of lakeside or "retreat" living.

We have a few properties like that over here on Sunapee and having the opportunity to have access to view the details that make these properties grand, is a treat I often get quite excited about.

While it is not modest by any stretch of the imagination, this estate very tasteful in its appointments.

It is a showcase of wealth, not a poor attempt to stab at the image of wealth.

Well, maybe "ugly" isn't appropriate. How about ostentatious?!

[Lakeboater]

Seems like the town of Alton would want to take a look at the current assessment for this property. Currently a combined valuation of just under $19 million but it has an asking price of $49 million. I realize asking price doesn't equal the true valuation so maybe if and when it sells a better valuation can be given.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by FLAG!

Lake Winnipesaukee has been destroyed by the one-upsmanship of the wealthy since the 1980's. I remember being blown away by the Black & Decker estate back around 1985? Since then the peaceful shoreline of traditional cottages nestled in the trees has been developed into shameless displays of wealth. So many of which are put up to be shown off for a year or two before a divorce or simple change of mind results in the property being sold off to the highest bidder. It's amazing to see how those with money to grease can get away with wetland abuse and zoning violations. Our own neighbor cleared acres of trees, put up a monstrous home, filled wetland and replaced an old 20 x 20 beach house with a 2 story guest house/boat house. For the record, it was understood he would only be allowed to rebuild where the beach house stood with a building with no larger a footprint. Within three years the property was sold and sold twice since then. Meanwhile, we have an old family property which many of us share having opportunity for 1 week in the summer and some random weekends the rest of the year(which we are grateful for) because zoning wont allow us to put another residence on our lot. We have over 20 acres of woodland, none of it wet, on a long private driveway shared by others but because the property isn't wide enough on Main Street we cannot build another residence. It sickens me what money can buy if you have an endless supply of it to grease the right people.

Oh by the way, we pay our taxes without complaint.

And how often do you see the mansion owners actually out enjoying the lake?

Sorry. I'll get off my soapbox. Had to vent. I feel better now.

Flag: I too would like to see more traditional "camps" on Winnipesaukee but I don't think it is appropriate to blame the "wealthy". The state, towns, conservation committees, voters, etc. all have had a part to play in the negative (my opinion) changes to Lake Winnipesaukee. If you spend some time on the lakes in Maine it is totally different and yes there are "wealthy" people there. Finally, be grateful you have a nice "camp" on Winnipesaukee with 20-acres to get away to. Many in America would consider your family "wealthy". It is all relative.

[Rusty]

Remember when Bahre wanted to build a 52,000-square-foot automobile museum/entertainment center next to his mansion.

Then along came a man by the name of Ron Bettencourt who is a 30+ year-Barndoor Island resident who led the neighbors charge against Bahre.

At one of the first ZBA hearings, Bettencourt referred to Bahre's lakeside estate as an "attractive nuisance."

I guess money didn't buy Bahre anything at that time because he decided not to build the museum due to Bettencourt's and the Alton selectmen objection.

I think that's how it went anyway.

[upthesaukee]

Mr. Bahre did not build his garage because he was unable to get the approvals needed from the town to build it.

As a result, his car collection has remained in Oxford ME, and that community gets the benefit of Founder's Day celebration, where his collection is opened up to public viewing, with the proceeds going to the local Library. He was willing to do the same thing here in Alton to benefit a mutually agreed upon charity or non-profit organization or facility.

We do have Hannaford's...

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Mr. Bahre did not build his garage because he was unable to get the approvals needed from the town to build it.

As a result, his car collection has remained in Oxford ME, and that community gets the benefit of Founder's Day celebration, where his collection is opened up to public viewing, with the proceeds going to the local Library. He was willing to do the same thing here in Alton to benefit a mutually agreed upon charity or non-profit organization or facility.

We do have Hannaford's...

Gee I wonder how many more nickles he would have given the town if they let him cut down every last tree on the property and build a race track? If I want to see his car collection I'll take a ride to Maine. If a community is willing to be bought off at least make sure the bribe is worthwhile. As alluded to above, I don't think it is the "wealthy" who are the problem. The problem is when people like Bahre collide with shortsighted politicians, voters, etc. Thankfully, Bettencourt led a revolt to stop the total destruction of the area.

Finally, Upthesaukee how many 52,000 square foot "garages" have you been in?

[riverat]

Bill Hemmel has aerial slideshow that I received on FB.
http://www.aerialphotonh.com/bahre/slideshow

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by riverat

Bill Hemmel has aerial slideshow that I received on FB.
http://www.aerialphotonh.com/bahre/slideshow

Mr. Bahre did build a smaller car museum adjacent to his son, Gary's house. Plus his 16 car garage attached to the main house. You can see the museum in the aerial slide show.

[AmantiDelLago]

I was interested in one of the properties until I noticed that they share a driveway. $25 million is too much to share a driveway with a neighbor!

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by AmantiDelLago

I was interested in one of the properties until I noticed that they share a driveway. $25 million is too much to share a driveway with a neighbor!

Are you serious, it's hard to tell?

[tis]

If I remember correctly, the son's house was designed so that the living room was able to have a car driven into it.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by tis

If I remember correctly, the son's house was designed so that the living room was able to have a car driven into it.

I wonder why he is selling after spending tens of millions to get the place they way he wanted it and bringing in Hannafords, etc. It's kind of odd. Maybe he got too far out over his skis and he can't afford the property?

[tis]

Don't forget how old he is. As I recall he was 82 or 84 when he built the house. Maybe it is just too much for them.

[upthesaukee]

He has said he has the house in ME, one in FL, and one in St. Barts. Now that he doesn't have the speedway any longer and doesn't need to entertain NASCAR related friends, customers, and clients any longer, he doesn't need this property any longer. And I doubt it has to do with not being able to afford it. He still has many other business interests (Hannaford's and the bank lease from him, for instance) Then there is the money he got on the sale of NHIS, around $350,000,000 if I remember right.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

He has said he has the house in ME, one in FL, and one in St. Barts. Now that he doesn't have the speedway any longer and doesn't need to entertain NASCAR related friends, customers, and clients any longer, he doesn't need this property any longer. And I doubt it has to do with not being able to afford it. He still has many other business interests (Hannaford's and the bank lease from him, for instance) Then there is the money he got on the sale of NHIS, around $350,000,000 if I remember right.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

You are close, it was $340 million cash.

[AmantiDelLago]

I heard that the deal was made with a handshake. If true that is some handshake...340 million dollars.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by AmantiDelLago

I heard that the deal was made with a handshake. If true that is some handshake...340 million dollars.

...among honorable people. In so many cases, a man's word and a handshake making a contact has gone by the wayside. Too bad, the world would be a far better place if we could go back to those days.

[AmantiDelLago]

Completely agree.

[fatlazyless]

Who knows ....... but it just might be that if maybe the Town of Alton had said yes to his building a building on the property to house his famous car collection of Duesenbergs, then he might not be wanting to move out ........it's a possibility? After all......home is where your Duesenbergs is at!!!

For an interesting story on him, published on Feb 1, 2013, and his car collection, put "Bob Bahre robbreport Duesenberg" into a google search. It has some excellent photos of the cars, and it is an unbelievable incredibly fantastic collection of big old cars.

[tis]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

He has said he has the house in ME, one in FL, and one in St. Barts. Now that he doesn't have the speedway any longer and doesn't need to entertain NASCAR related friends, customers, and clients any longer, he doesn't need this property any longer. And I doubt it has to do with not being able to afford it. He still has many other business interests (Hannaford's and the bank lease from him, for instance) Then there is the money he got on the sale of NHIS, around $350,000,000 if I remember right.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

Yes, and he they used to travel a lot, I don't know if they still do. No, I am sure you are right, he has no problem affording it, it is just something he doesn't need any more.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by AmantiDelLago

I heard that the deal was made with a handshake. If true that is some handshake...340 million dollars.

It should also be noted that Bob Bahre and Bruton Smith, have other joint business ventures together. This was not their first rodeo.

[Gatto Nero]

Maybe Marriott with buy it and turn it into a ultra high end resort

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

For an interesting story on him, published on Feb 1, 2013, and his car collection, put "Bob Bahre robbreport Duesenberg" into a google search. It has some excellent photos of the cars, and it is an unbelievable incredibly fantastic collection of big old cars.

According to that Robb Report article, published 2/1/2013, Bob Bahre was 86 yrs old at the time of publication.

Here's a link to the article, http://robbreport.com/automobiles/life-discovery.

[fatlazyless]

http://www.alton.nh.gov/Minutes/ZBAM...December05.pdf

Word by word minutes, verbatim, from a Town of Alton zoning board hearing to consider building a car storage building on the Clay Point-Lake Winnipesaukee, waterfront property from December 19, 2005: Is it a garage or is it a museum ..... what is this proposed building?

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

http://www.alton.nh.gov/Minutes/ZBAM...December05.pdf

Word by word minutes, verbatim, from a Town of Alton zoning board hearing to consider building a car storage building on the Clay Point-Lake Winnipesaukee, waterfront property from December 19, 2005: Is it a garage or is it a museum ..... what is this proposed building?

I'm surprised he didn't get this approved. After all, opening his museum once a year for a day raises $10,000-$12,000 for the local library in Maine and he was willing to do the same for the town of Alton. What a guy.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

http://www.alton.nh.gov/Minutes/ZBAM...December05.pdf

Word by word minutes, verbatim, from a Town of Alton zoning board hearing to consider building a car storage building on the Clay Point-Lake Winnipesaukee, waterfront property from December 19, 2005: Is it a garage or is it a museum ..... what is this proposed building?

What I read in the minutes of that meeting was that the Alton Zoning Board of Adjustment voted three to two to approve the project again.

So what you posted isn't the final decision for disapproval.

[IceoutNH]

Yes, the property is for sale. However, you won't find it in MLS!

[RLW]

IceoutNH, I just noticed that you are fairly new to posting on the forum and glad you have joined us. Have fun and enjoy the Winni Forum while making many new friends.

Hope you join in often.

[Legionnaire70]

It only has 1594 feet of shore front, I was looking for a minimum of 1600 ft.

guess I'll keep looking....

[19MileBaylover]

I think it really is all about the towns and their planning boards and selectmen.
Obviously, they're job is to generate as much income for the towns as possible, so I really appreciate the comments by FLAG! and COOLBREEZE. But you can't stop "progress" and "time marches on." And it's a shame that the town governments lose sight of what made the lake such a wonderful place to "buy into," and forget who is really paying the bills for the new schools, fire stations, police stations, etc. in these towns. And to this day I think the concept of taxation without representation is thrown to the wind and the "seasonal' property owners don't have a say. Something's wrong, as they say. I wish seasonal owners had a say in where their property tax money went.