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Old 05-16-2021, 10:26 AM   #1
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Default moultonboro town meeting

anything of interest at the town meeting yesterday
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Old 05-16-2021, 05:12 PM   #2
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Default A good meeting...

A bit of a comedy act at the end, when a resident tried to call a mulligan on a vote because two people voted without their masks on. After the boos died down, he withdrew his request and the meeting was over. Overall, a good meeting. No parliamentary games to disrupt the meeting, no secret ballots, only a few close votes and the moderator kept the long talkers in control. Big news, in the future, town meeting will be in May.
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Old 05-16-2021, 05:16 PM   #3
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assume the annual request for a new study on spending 7M on rec center got defeated
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Old 05-16-2021, 05:23 PM   #4
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Default Taylor Albatross

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assume the annual request for a new study on spending 7M on rec center got defeated
The article was to spend $250K on yet another study. An amendment by the sponsor brought it down to $75K and it passed by 7% (118:102). Didn't seem right to me to spend $75 on a site survey when the last offer that was almost accepted was in the $62K range. It is the town's albatross.
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Old 05-16-2021, 07:46 PM   #5
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More significantly, prior to the vote on the amended article, Town Counsel confirmed that while the article, if passed, would appropriate the sum of $75,000, the remainder of the article, which purported to direct the Selectmen to perform certain acts by certain dates, was not binding on the Selectmen. In order words, illegal. Town Counsel further confirmed that the Selectmen could in their discretion, choose to spend or not to spend the appropriated $75,000. The article was another misguided, poorly conceived and drafted attempt to box the Selectmen in. It failed spectacularly to achieve its intended purpose and is just the latest example of the lengths to which those so enamored of the Taj Mahal recreation/community center will go, despite numerous failed attempts to achieve the necessary votes to pass a bond article.
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Old 05-16-2021, 08:01 PM   #6
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Default We needed you, Phoenix!

Very poor turnout. Many seniors are still afraid to venture out. Art. 16 was very close: 110-102, but winni 83 explained it well. The Taj people are never going to give it up. BTW, if anyone thinks we need another gym, the senior class will graduate 18 this year! That’s right: EIGHTEEN!
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Old 05-17-2021, 08:45 AM   #7
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it wont be long before the high school is so small it will force consolidating with Inter Lakes
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Old 05-17-2021, 09:11 AM   #8
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it wont be long before the high school is so small it will force consolidating with Inter Lakes
Isn't 18/year already way less than the critical mass necessary to have decent subject area teachers across math, English, history, foreign languages, lab sciences...?
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Old 05-17-2021, 09:15 AM   #9
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Default Taxes, taxes, taxes

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it wont be long before the high school is so small it will force consolidating with Inter Lakes
Consolidating the 2school districts would be a positive, except it would probably be the end of our low tax rate. Meredith’s property taxes are way higher than M’boro’s.
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Old 05-17-2021, 09:21 AM   #10
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The main event this year was not the gym. It was the announcement, a couple of days before the meeting that:

Town Meeting Update Article 15
Posted on: May 14, 2021 - 2:01pm

Quote:
There are no proposals to present at Town meeting for Article 15, sale of Taylor property, and therefore the Board will ask that Article 15 be tabled.

Message from Huggins Hospital – We are proud to be strong members of the Moultonborough community. We have seen growth over the years in our Moultonborough Family Medicine office. We would like to continue conversations with town officials and residents regarding options if there is a need for expansion in the future. At this time, it is too soon for us to make any formal agreements regarding a purchase of property as we need more time to evaluate the community’s needs and our options for growth. We plan to stay in Moultonborough and we are happy to continue conversations with the town about how we can help support the community.

The hospital was going to tear down the controversial Taylor building to build an 8,500-10,000 sq. ft. addition to the Med Center that alraedy abuts the property. Some believed, finally, a solution to the property.

The "save the old building" crowd managed to kill the sale. Huggins has other places to expand, without a bunch of grief.

Since, legally, the $75,000 (Article 16) is available to the select board for its prerogative, maybe they'll use it to tear down the building, and put in a town common/green; not very controversial. The select board has the legal authority (and the money) to tear down/raze the building without town meeting approval; cf. NH Prudential Affairs doctrine.

Article 16 would have been moot and never discussed, if the town-published-letter-of-intent to build a med center, had been voted on.
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Old 05-24-2021, 04:03 PM   #11
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i was just reading the selectman's minutes from may 10 . It said they were signing a P&S with the hospital to sell the Taylor property. The hospital said if the clinic wasn't working after two years they would offer back to town for free. This was 5 days before the town meeting
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Old 05-24-2021, 04:42 PM   #12
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Page 24 of the attached May 6 meeting agenda has the Letter of Intent, whereby item 6 states a purchase and sales agreement 7 days before the town meeting. The minutes of May 10 state the town has a P&S agreement for review by Huggins. The "two years" is addressed in item 7 of the intent to sell.

Agenda

https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/sit...web_packet.pdf


Minutes

https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/sit...s_05.10.21.pdf
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Old 05-24-2021, 06:33 PM   #13
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that's what i said. They had an agreement 5 days before the meeting. but for some reason it got pulled in between
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Old 05-24-2021, 06:50 PM   #14
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We think that all the LTE action got the attention of the Huggins people in charge of this project, and it was very apparent that 2 factions in town are vehemently opposed to having Huggins acquire this property......and so they pulled their offer. Who can blame them when they would receive opposition every step of the way?
It was a very sad day for Moultonborough. We need medical facilities such as would be offered by Huggins. We do not need a new gym or rec center...or a falling-down “historic” house begging for the wrecking ball. A lost opportunity, for sure.
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Old 05-25-2021, 08:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
that's what i said. They had an agreement 5 days before the meeting. but for some reason it got pulled in between
What was signed, was the Letter of Intent by the town by the select board chair, not Huggins. There was no Purchase and Sale agreement signed by either party.

The Huggins Board of Directors had an emergency meeting a day or so before the town meeting (not 5 days) and bailed out.

Also, the May 10 minutes quoted in this thread, also state; "Chair Quinlan also stated that one of the stipends in the LOI is if after the two-year window, ..."
That should read "stipulations", not "stipends"!

Attention and care should be used when reading anything.
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Old 05-25-2021, 09:45 AM   #16
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agree with you SDN to have selectmen authorize signing a P&S subject to town meeting approval five days before must be what you said . It is sad as being a summer resident one has to go to urgent care in Belmont
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Old 05-25-2021, 11:25 AM   #17
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I stand corrected.

I had thought the May 10 meeting was a non-public session for all items. Had not noticed the board had the P&S agreement on the agenda, and then went into non-public. Minutes were sealed, as usual, for non-public, and minutes not published.

The LOI was signed by the board chair, I think on May 6

Town of Moultonborough, 10, 2021
8:00 A.M.6 Holland St.Moultonborough, NH.
I .CALL TO ORDER
II.NEW BUSINESS
A.Taylor Property: Purchase and Sale Agreement
III.NON-PUBLIC SESSION
A.RSA 91-A:3, II (a)
B.RSA 91-A:3, II (b)
IV.ADJOURNMENT


Minutes of May 10 morning meeting

"To sign the Purchase and Sales Agreement as presented and to authorize the Chair to sign noting this is subject to town meeting approval on May 15, 2021."

I'll bet Huggins never signed the LOI! So why the P&A?

Article 15 at town meeting, by petition, required by law (RSA 41:14-a) that the select board present "any proposal" for the sale of the Taylor property. It was tabled because of no proposal. It should have been deemed null and void, since there was no proposal, neither in LOI form, nor P&A form. "Tabling" insinuates a possible reconsideration. Just look at the state legislature. Article 15 was Dead On Arrival, with no legal possibility of resurrection.

There was no need for a P&A agreement for town meeting. Just a yes/no vote on a proposal. Has anyone seen the P&A agreement? I haven't and I attend all of the business sessions? The LOI was on the town website. Can you just picture a real estate Sales agreement at town meeting. We'd be still arguing about what Monday means, three weeks later.

Also,
The select board does not need town approval to tear down the Taylor Building (Prudential Affairs doctrine). RSA 41:14-a helped kill the "wilderness" proposal by requiring town approval, but tear-down does not. The Huggins proposal wasn't brought up till after the petition against the wilderness business, and was welcomed "news" to most of us before town meeting.

You snowbirds can begin voting at town meeting, if you get back to town by the second week of May, since we voted to change Town meeting from March to May
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Old 05-25-2021, 11:35 AM   #18
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what's sad is we have probably lost the improved medical services for a long time. When one of my grandchildren a couple of years ago had a fever we called the center in town and they told us they were only seeing full time residents so we trucked off to Belmont . The lakes region hospital office in Center Harbor closed a few years ago . I hope the selectmen use the 75K to tear down the Taylor house
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Old 05-25-2021, 01:34 PM   #19
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Consolidating the 2school districts would be a positive, except it would probably be the end of our low tax rate. Meredith’s property taxes are way higher than M’boro’s.
I don't live in Moultonborough so I have no skin in the game, but thinking as an outsider wouldn't it cost the town more to outfit and maintain a school, plus pay salaries of teachers and admin than the average cost per student to send the kids to Meredith? If 18 is the graduating class size, what does it really cost the town?

I know in Dover where I live it is roughly $12-13k per student to put them through our school system.
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Old 05-25-2021, 02:07 PM   #20
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I don't live in Moultonborough so I have no skin in the game, but thinking as an outsider wouldn't it cost the town more to outfit and maintain a school, plus pay salaries of teachers and admin than the average cost per student to send the kids to Meredith? If 18 is the graduating class size, what does it really cost the town?

I know in Dover where I live it is roughly $12-13k per student to put them through our school system.
+/- $30k per student in Mboro
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Old 05-25-2021, 02:44 PM   #21
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i don't think it is a financial but more ego for the town . I know a couple years back they had to alternate unique classes to every other year because of small enrolment . You would think students would benefit with more options for athletics and classes if they were part of Interlakes
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Old 05-25-2021, 03:50 PM   #22
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i don't think it is a financial but more ego for the town . I know a couple years back they had to alternate unique classes to every other year because of small enrolment . You would think students would benefit with more options for athletics and classes if they were part of Interlakes
Bingo! That is what we were just discussing....how much more opportunity our students would have even if you removed the monetary part from the equation. More course selection, better athletic teams and extra-curricular choices. We are shaking our heads because it makes zero sense. 🙄
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Old 05-25-2021, 05:57 PM   #23
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Moultonborough used to be part of the Gov Wentworth District when it first started in 1965 but they eventually opted out to open their own school.
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Old 05-25-2021, 10:10 PM   #24
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+/- $30k per student in Mboro
My point exactly. That’s a lot per student.
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Old 05-27-2021, 10:54 AM   #25
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Default Be in the same place in the end...

My two cents. After the study on the Taylor property, we will likely still be in the same place - do you want "The Community Center" in one place all consolidated on the Taylor property (2020 cost was $6.7 M) or do you want to renovate the Lions club (2020 cost was $1.5 M) and put the community center at the Taylor property (2020 cost was $3.5 M). Still waiting for someone to tell me why they need to be together....

And although this year's Moultonborough academy class was very small (20 or so), the average has been 35. Still a very low number without a doubt, but just to set the record straight.... Last year in fact was a greater than average sized class... Still don't know how they can handle those kind of swings ....

I think Huggins did not appreciate the polarization of the town over that Taylor property. The "put it to the wrecking ball" people and the "Save this building at all cost" people are definitely both very vocal....

But lets be honest, I think the Selectmen want the less expensive option and they keep getting out-voted on it when it goes to town meeting. Last year in fact there was money appropriated to sink into the Taylor property - voted by the people at town meeting. Like one of the Selectmen said - "the people have spoken". I wish that $100,000 PLUS from last year and that money appropriated this year (which will lead us to exactly the same place in the end) was placed elsewhere. There has to be Compromise in there somewhere. If the two groups got together and worked it out, I think we could get something done. Instead the Selectmen still want to go one way and the organizers of the more expensive option will still do a better job turning their people out to town meeting. In the meantime, construction costs still go up about 4% a year - so by the time this all gets settled, the $5 M option will be up to $5.4M and the $6.7M option will be up to $7.25. All because they can't seem to reach a compromise....
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Old 05-27-2021, 12:40 PM   #26
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30k per student per year is insane.
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Old 05-27-2021, 01:05 PM   #27
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Default Insanity? Yes

That’s the way it is here....just open up your checkbooks, and VOILA! More money for the school. Remember...”it’s for the children”. It’s never enough.
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Old 05-27-2021, 03:57 PM   #28
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That’s the way it is here....just open up your checkbooks, and VOILA! More money for the school. Remember...”it’s for the children”. It’s never enough.
It IS never enough. And I am so sick of hearing how much more money they need.
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Old 05-27-2021, 06:26 PM   #29
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Default Town meeting

I agree that $30,000 is too much for the school district and the enrollment is without question going down. We can't "save" our way through this one....

As as far as the Taylor property, Lions Club, Community and Rec Center, that are all "in play", it seems to me there is a compromise in here, but nobody wants to sit down and compromise.
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Old 05-27-2021, 07:44 PM   #30
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what's the process to get someone to realize its time to merge with Meredith
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Old 05-27-2021, 09:38 PM   #31
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Start with a Superintendent overseeing the three principals....Elementary, Middle, and High Schools....plus add in the administrative staff, when the total enrollment is less than 500 students. Just wait until the state gets their act together and redistributes education money....and M'boro gets hit with the rebirth of donor towns.
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Old 05-31-2021, 08:57 AM   #32
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Start with a Superintendent overseeing the three principals....Elementary, Middle, and High Schools....plus add in the administrative staff, when the total enrollment is less than 500 students. Just wait until the state gets their act together and redistributes education money....and M'boro gets hit with the rebirth of donor towns.
Look at Act 46 across the river in VT. The idea is to first encourage then require districts to consolidate/merge to better manage costs and improve the quality of education.
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Old 05-31-2021, 11:41 AM   #33
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Although this thread started with Town meeting, and has migrated to discussing school issues, there was not a peep at the Annual School District Meeting, held just before the Annual Town Meeting, other than reading and voting on the warrant articles.

It should be also be noted that the 2022 annual meetings will be in different months. The Annual School District meeting will still be in the statutory March time frame, while the Annual Town Meeting will be held in May from now on, by majority vote of the voters.
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Old 05-31-2021, 02:52 PM   #34
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I don't know if they save if the are cooperative or not. I believe GWRSD budget is over 50 million.
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Old 05-31-2021, 03:21 PM   #35
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I don't know if they save if the are cooperative or not. I believe GWRSD budget is over 50 million.
Definitely, there are a whole bunch of policy decisions that would affect whether the price tag is lower. But it's easy to imagine that 18 kids/year is WAY subscale for a school system. So it's very likely that Moultonboro is spending more per student on fixed overhead expenses than it would as part of a larger system. If this is true, we could have a better education for the kids (more teachers/pupil) and less expense simultaneously
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