Collective dive sites map...thoughts?

[KTO]

Hey divers,

I've been putting together a google map compilation of dive sites on the lake based on available coordinates (basically the well known dive sites and the ones openly posted on here) for personal reference.

I would obviously share this too since it would be a good resource, but I wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this. I don't want it to lead to trouble (too risky to share wrecks with too many people, etc.). Would it be useful? Wasteful?

Thanks!

[BroadHopper]

The old Duncan maps use to show all the wrecks in the lake. I see why not!

[Grant]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

The old Duncan maps use to show all the wrecks in the lake. I see why not!

I think there have been more "new" wrecks located in the past 2-3 years than in the previous 100 -- mostly thanks to Diver111.

[crowsnest]

Originally Posted by KTO

Hey divers,

I've been putting together a google map compilation of dive sites on the lake based on available coordinates (basically the well known dive sites and the ones openly posted on here) for personal reference.

I would obviously share this too since it would be a good resource, but I wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this. I don't want it to lead to trouble (too risky to share wrecks with too many people, etc.). Would it be useful? Wasteful?

Thanks!

I vote useful it would be good to have all that info on one chart
I dive around 4-5 times a year up the lake. I would love a copy of all the updated dive sites with the cordinence and info on the dive site

[KTO]

Originally Posted by crowsnest

I vote useful it would be good to have all that info on one chart
I dive around 4-5 times a year up the lake. I would love a copy of all the updated dive sites with the cordinence and info on the dive site

The only "problem" if you will is that I've started collecting and pinning on a Google map based on what others have openly posted on the forum. The coordinates, length, depth (all when available) are posted. The only catch for you MIGHT be that it's a digital Google map, so without a smart phone wouldn't be accessible on the lake :P

Other than that, I'll keep working on it. I'll make it un-private when it's ready-er.

[Pineedles]

I have enjoyed the side scans (although I still don't understand the technology), photos, and videos of dives on Winni's treasures. I just don't understand why, when discussions of a comprehensive "map" of all "interesting points to dive encounters resistence? Sorry if I'm bringing up a taboo subject, but aren't all scuba divers dedicated to not disturburb or rob dive sites? I know it takes alot of training to become a certified diver, but is there concern that some who know the location of certain dive sites violate these same sites? Am I asking a dumb question? It wouldn't be the first time.

[KTO]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

I have enjoyed the side scans (although I still don't understand the technology), photos, and videos of dives on Winni's treasures. I just don't understand why, when discussions of a comprehensive "map" of all "interesting points to dive encounters resistence? Sorry if I'm bringing up a taboo subject, but aren't all scuba divers dedicated to not disturburb or rob dive sites? I know it takes alot of training to become a certified diver, but is there concern that some who know the location of certain dive sites violate these same sites? Am I asking a dumb question? It wouldn't be the first time.

I don't think it's a dumb question and I agree with you completely. I'm asking because I don't want to step on toes if I create this. I think that we should be able to share all sites and we should all be true in protecting these sites. I'll publish it (when it's nearer completion) and if there's a lot of backlash, oh well, these are all publicly accessible sites, right?

[Pineedles]

The silence speaks volumes.

[Diver1111]

For what my opinion is worth:

When I post coordinates to a wreck on Winni.com I have effectively released whatever control I had over it by not releasing them; The only protection I can give a wreck is by severely limiting who I give the Lat/Lon to-by controlling the release of this kind of information.

When I post the Lat/Lon I have given it a great deal of thought, first taking into account the wrecks' uniqueness, age, condition and what as a diver I believe would hold salvage value for other divers who would beat the crap out of them trying to say, pull off a rudder or bronze prop, cargo, steering wheel etc. etc..

I would like to share more locations I have but won't because some of them are just too special. However my close dive buddies on Winni-there are only 3-know where all of them are and I'm happy about that.

I understand the risks to a wreck by posting the Lat/Lon but as I've said it is not without great consideration. I decide that the risk to a particular wreck is nominal for various reasons and post it. That being said I think it's a great idea to work up a list of wrecks complete with Lat/Lon.

Map them if you like-you won't upset me in any way. I only say this because you expressed some concern about pissing off some in the dive community-trust me I'm not one of them-go for it. Contact me with questions if you like.

I would suggest reading carefully through posts I've made about wrecks because at first in some of them I didn't say where they were exactly but later posted the position. Therefore, if you're serious about building such a list and mapping it or whatever go through my posts end-to-end and there you will find coordinates that are not listed in the beginning parts of the thread. You can't tell I posted the Lat/Lon in a specific thread unless you read the whole thing. If there are "numbers" for a particular wreck you can't find that is in fact public somewhere let me know and I'll help.

That's worthwhile too because generally you will see side-scan images, photos and video clips of many of the wrecks I've found-what a great way to get an idea of what the wreck is all about.

I've found maybe 12 since May of this year, 20 or so in the last 3 years. Off the top of my head I have no idea how many are actually on Winni.com but alot of them are but all of them never will be. One new steel vessel 2 weeks ago. 2 flattened wrecks nearly side by side about 45 feet long each with cool brass screws and double-headed copper nails in them in July. One new possibility today. It just keeps getting better and I'm having a very good time. I will post pictures, scans etc. of them. Lat/Lon is another story.

I can't stop people from doing what they will do. I can only control giving them the opportunity to do it by sitting on certain wrecks.

[SharkBaitDiving]

I'm in full agreement with Diver 111 and others here. As the new guy on the Lake I fully respect wreck sites as I have been diving around the world now for almost 35+ years. I myself have started a 3 ring binder of all the known and posted wrecks on the Lake. I use this binder for reference for myself or for other divers diving with me. I always advise divers that wrecks are precious and to not take, vandalize, or disturb anything on the wrecks on my pre dive briefings.
I fully respect Diver 111 for keeping some of his great finds "close to the vest" and thank him again for publizing others he has found for the rest of us to enjoy!

[Grant]

Although we tend to think/hope otherwise, there remains a good number of divers for whom "plundering" wrecks is a given. Given the often-fragile state of many of the wooden wrecks in this lake, the consequences are catastrophic. One recent example involves a find that was neither wooden nor a boat, but a car. It was researched for years and located in 2004 by our own Senter Cove Guy who, naturally, was very protective of the location and only gave it out selectively. But word travels fast in any community, and over time the car was plundered. The last eight years have brought more damage to the car than all those years on the bottom of Winnipesaukee since it sank in early 1937.

And, from what I'm told this year, The Lady of the Lake has taken a beating recently. Nothing's sacred.

Although I'm at risk of preaching to choir here, it's still good policy to 'take nothing but pictures.' Leave the underwater finds for future generations to enjoy. There's plenty of stuff down there, and certainly lots more to be found.

Safe diving!

[SIKSUKR]

Just a comment on leaving alone wrecks like cars.Today,you would have to get any wreck like a car or snowmobile out of the lake asap or risk heavy fines.One could argue that removing parts of a car or the like,is in fact cleaning up the lake.To me,all those manmade vehicles on the lake bottom is poluution.What do you think?

[Grant]

Very good point.

Similarly, dumping your bottles, plates, machinery, tools, etc., into the Lake is punishable with fines, jail, etc. Yet the State considers the stuff on the bottom of the Lake (bottles, plates, machinery, tools, etc.) to be State-owned "antiquities."

So what is the cut-off date that delineates a found "treasure" from "garbage"???

Double standards?

Back when many of the Lake wrecks sunk (or were scuttled -- imagine trying to get away with that today), there wasn't a reliable way to, 1) locate the exact wreck site, or 2) salvage it. Today, with sonar, fish finders, SCUBA equipment, lift bags, barges, etc., it's a lot easier. A few of the larger wrecks (Lady, various barges, etc.) would've been challenging to raise at any time.

On a (selfish) side note, I'm all about preserving water quality, removing sunken cars, trucks and sleds, but I wish the US military had left the helicopter that crashed into Melvin Bay years ago. That would be a great dive.

[SharkBaitDiving]

KTO,

Make any progress on that map you were putting together?

I'd love to see it when completed.

Thanks,
Jim
Shark Bait Diving Adventures
Fay's Boat Yard
Gilford, NH