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Old 01-03-2020, 11:35 AM   #1
joey2665
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Default NH Private Road Taxpayers Alliance

Many of us in the Lakes Region live in communities with private roads that are maintained by your HOA or the homeowners individually yet we pay the same tax rate as those whose roads are maintained by the municipalities.

Below is a a taxpayer alliance that has been formed to fight this inequity in property tax rates.

Please support this worthy cause.

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Old 01-03-2020, 12:11 PM   #2
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While it may be true that private road dwellers pay property tax at the same *rate*, a private road does affect the appraised value. That is, put them on a public road and their appraisal will go up.

That said, I'd be happy to give such dwellers a tax break, once they stop using public roads.
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:22 PM   #3
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Default Unused servicesd

There are no schools,roads, etc. on the islands, but we pay the same rate as mainland. As stated above, the difference is made up in variations in the assessed value of the property. I hope you don't all chip in dues to hire a lawyer to tell you that.
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:27 PM   #4
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Tell that to all the tax payers with no kids or ones that send their kids to private school.
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:28 PM   #5
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While it may be true that private road dwellers pay property tax at the same *rate*, a private road does affect the appraised value. That is, put them on a public road and their appraisal will go up.

That said, I'd be happy to give such dwellers a tax break, once they stop using public roads.
Mass is the same, there's no tax break for people who live on private roads. The tax of your home is based on it's appraisal and I don't see that being on a private road would effect it's value.
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Old 01-03-2020, 01:06 PM   #6
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So when someone buys a home on an private road or a city with schools even though they have no children or a camp on an island, they don't know what they are getting into before they sign on the dotted line??

This has little chance of getting anywhere as it should!

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Old 01-03-2020, 01:30 PM   #7
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While it may be true that private road dwellers pay property tax at the same *rate*, a private road does affect the appraised value. That is, put them on a public road and their appraisal will go up.

That said, I'd be happy to give such dwellers a tax break, once they stop using public roads.
Ok that’s is a ridiculous agreement. The roads in our communities are significant and are maintained without ANY cost to the municipality they reside yet we pay the same tax rate and usually increased appraised values.


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Old 01-03-2020, 01:32 PM   #8
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There are no schools,roads, etc. on the islands, but we pay the same rate as mainland. As stated above, the difference is made up in variations in the assessed value of the property. I hope you don't all chip in dues to hire a lawyer to tell you that.
I’m sorry I disagree. Appraised values and tax rates for this purpose are two different discussions. I think Island home should also be involved with a reduced tax rate for road maintenance


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Old 01-03-2020, 01:34 PM   #9
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So when someone buys a home on an private road or a city with schools even though they have no children or a camp on an island, they don't know what they are getting into before they sign on the dotted line??

This has little chance of getting anywhere as it should!

Dan
Dan remember it is the municipalities that force these communities to maintain their own roads it is not their choice. I believe as said above the same should go for Island homes


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Old 01-03-2020, 01:50 PM   #10
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When we lived on Cape Cod the town plowed our streets and we lived on a private road. Also private roads were really only private if stated so and there was deterrence from others to come onto the roads. At one time we did have gate houses but no person in there.

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Old 01-03-2020, 01:53 PM   #11
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After this bill roars to enactment, let's help the poor oppressed waterfront owners who never use public beaches, yet are forced to pay for their upkeep.
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Old 01-03-2020, 01:57 PM   #12
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Dan remember it is the municipalities that force these communities to maintain their own roads it is not their choice. I believe as said above the same should go for Island homes
It is also their choice to decide where they want to live. If they choose to live in a community that has a private road, then so be it.
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Old 01-03-2020, 02:06 PM   #13
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Taxes are calculated based on the value of the property. If you put the same mainland house on an island it would be valued less and taxed at a lower amount so in effect you are already getting a discount for the lack of town services.

Without factual data to back it up I would think that someone purchasing on a private road where they have exposure to the costs of plowing roads and maintaining pavement might pay less for that property. Therefor the taxes would be lower.

As soon as you attempt to pick and choose (no kids in school, private road, don't use the town recycle center for trash Etc.) everyone will want a discount for what they think they pay for but don't use. The whole system will break down.

If this legislation is successful watch how many copycat bills get submitted by people with their own idea of what they don't get.
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Old 01-03-2020, 02:07 PM   #14
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Easy enough to fix, redo all your "private" roads to meet minimum town requirements (very expensive) and ask the town to accept them.
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Old 01-03-2020, 04:25 PM   #15
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Easy enough to fix, redo all your "private" roads to meet minimum town requirements (very expensive) and ask the town to accept them.
Our road already meet NHDOT requirements. The towns will not accept and maintain unless they are forced to.


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Old 01-03-2020, 04:29 PM   #16
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Do your homework before you buy anywhere.
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Old 01-03-2020, 04:30 PM   #17
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After this bill roars to enactment, let's help the poor oppressed waterfront owners who never use public beaches, yet are forced to pay for their upkeep.
Really? Most of the homes in these communities are not waterfront or even water view.

Just think how high your taxes would be without these types of communities with part timers paying general and school taxes that use very little of the support system if any at all especially the schools.

Sounds like sour apples to me instead maybe be a little more appreciative.


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Old 01-03-2020, 05:14 PM   #18
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Our road already meet NHDOT requirements. The towns will not accept and maintain unless they are forced to.


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No this is actually negotiated when a subdivision is approved and if the intent is for the construction of a "public way" then a bond is secured BEFORE construction commences and the planning board decides what standards must be met in order for that road to be accepted including a timeframe for completion. Just because the road happens to meet some NHDOT standard doesn't mean a thing, what matters is what the town's planning board says and agreed to. If the town isn't accepting it there is a reason why. No town or city is "obligated" to accept any road just because it has been built.

This is not the town's problem and you're not going to force it to become their problem either. In fact there is plenty of precedence on this.
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Old 01-03-2020, 05:47 PM   #19
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Dan remember it is the municipalities that force these communities to maintain their own roads it is not their choice. I believe as said above the same should go for Island homes


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The communities were not "forced" to do anything. It was part of the agreement a developer reached with the Planning Board to win approval for their project. Just as the property owner was not "forced" to buy in a neighborhood with privately maintained roads.
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Old 01-03-2020, 06:21 PM   #20
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The communities were not "forced" to do anything. It was part of the agreement a developer reached with the Planning Board to win approval for their project. Just as the property owner was not "forced" to buy in a neighborhood with privately maintained roads.
You can say it’s not “forced “ but the reality is the planning board would not approve the community if they didn’t accept responsibility for the roads. Basically we are playing semantics so call it whatever you want.

Wow I cannot believe the opposition on this issue!

If you where paying for a service you were not receiving you would not be happy either.


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Old 01-03-2020, 06:46 PM   #21
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Many people pay for services that they donít use. This has already been established here. Whether youíre living on a private road, on an island, have no children in school etc., there are many reasons.

People have been complaining about paying taxes forever and Iím sure they always will.
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Old 01-03-2020, 06:52 PM   #22
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You can say it’s not “forced “ but the reality is the planning board would not approve the community if they didn’t accept responsibility for the roads. Basically we are playing semantics so call it whatever you want.

Wow I cannot believe the opposition on this issue!

If you where paying for a service you were not receiving you would not be happy either.


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Sorry Joey but the term is called “buyers remorse”. Not much can be done about that.

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Old 01-03-2020, 07:35 PM   #23
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You can say it’s not “forced “ but the reality is the planning board would not approve the community if they didn’t accept responsibility for the roads. Basically we are playing semantics so call it whatever you want.

Wow I cannot believe the opposition on this issue!

If you where paying for a service you were not receiving you would not be happy either.


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I'm interested to know which services--in addition to your road maintenance--should you not be expected to pay for in your tax bill?

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Old 01-03-2020, 07:57 PM   #24
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You can say it’s not “forced “ but the reality is the planning board would not approve the community if they didn’t accept responsibility for the roads. Basically we are playing semantics so call it whatever you want.

Wow I cannot believe the opposition on this issue!

If you where paying for a service you were not receiving you would not be happy either.


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Do you use the services of Police and Fire? Not to play semantics but if not, why pay that portion of your tax bill?
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Old 01-03-2020, 08:11 PM   #25
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Sorry Joey but the term is called “buyers remorse”. Not much can be done about that.

Dan
I do not have buyers remorse I have been in 3 HOAs in the area over 15 years and yes I know all the rules. That does not mean I do not have the right to fight to not pay for a service I am not receiving.

By your standard we would have to suck up everything and not complain or disagree with any rules or laws.


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Old 01-03-2020, 08:14 PM   #26
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I'm interested to know which services--in addition to your road maintenance--should you not be expected to pay for in your tax bill?

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Nothing just the road maintenance. Do your roads get maintained or even replaced when they are in disrepair or need to be plowed by your municipality? Well mine do not and we are paying the same tax rate as you.


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Old 01-03-2020, 08:46 PM   #27
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Nothing just the road maintenance. Do your roads get maintained or even replaced when they are in disrepair or need to be plowed by your municipality? Well mine do not and we are paying the same tax rate as you.


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Careful what you ask for because according to your logic as an non-bridged island property owner I get NOTHING from the town, no roads, no police, no town owned infrastructure, barely any fire protection, prohibited from using the school system, can't even claim permanent residency, so therefore I should pay nothing and I have no problem at all shifting all that burden on you. I see no reason why I shouldn't be tax free.
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Old 01-03-2020, 08:48 PM   #28
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My sister lives on a private dirt road and has since the 1980s. The town has never maintained this road. Neighbors contribute every year to do what needs to be done to keep the road passable.
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Old 01-03-2020, 09:28 PM   #29
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Careful what you ask for because according to your logic as an non-bridged island property owner I get NOTHING from the town, no roads, no police, no town owned infrastructure, barely any fire protection, prohibited from using the school system, can't even claim permanent residency, so therefore I should pay nothing and I have no problem at all shifting all that burden on you. I see no reason why I shouldn't be tax free.
LOL Maxum
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Old 01-03-2020, 09:31 PM   #30
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Careful what you ask for because according to your logic as an non-bridged island property owner I get NOTHING from the town, no roads, no police, no town owned infrastructure, barely any fire protection, prohibited from using the school system, can't even claim permanent residency, so therefore I should pay nothing and I have no problem at all shifting all that burden on you. I see no reason why I shouldn't be tax free.
Your a pretty funny guy. Hope it’s not how you make a living


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Old 01-03-2020, 10:03 PM   #31
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I am amazed, Joey, that you wold be chasing this cloud. Your posts and apparent experience seem to be far more knowledgeable than trying this tax relief scam. The towns follow state law on who can get tax relief (veterans) and that option must be approved by town meeting (City Council in Laconia, I believe). So you first need the legislature to approve enabling legislation, then you need the city council to approve. That pushes a greater burden on other taxpayers to raise the same money. NOT GONNA Happen. But you can pay lawyers and lobbyists big dollars to end up saying "Gee, we're sorry. We thought we made a good case, but it didn't even make it out of committee. Here's the bill."

Question:
What flavor Kool-Aid are you drinking?
I'm not trying to be smug or facetious, but the weight of experience is overwhelming. Don't give this organization any money.

Do you respond to Robo calls?
I really don't want to be rude here, but I think you've been seriously mislead.
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Old 01-04-2020, 12:14 AM   #32
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Really? Most of the homes in these communities are not waterfront or even water view.

Just think how high your taxes would be without these types of communities with part timers paying general and school taxes that use very little of the support system if any at all especially the schools.

Sounds like sour apples to me instead maybe be a little more appreciative.


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With all due respect--my first post was not serious. I was teasing you. As others have pointed out more directly--you should drop this silly idea
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Old 01-04-2020, 01:05 AM   #33
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Default Your private road...

Perhaps a reduction in taxes would be ok if the residents are ok with the police & fire & ambulances stopping at the public road?
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Old 01-04-2020, 06:04 AM   #34
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I am amazed, Joey, that you wold be chasing this cloud. Your posts and apparent experience seem to be far more knowledgeable than trying this tax relief scam. The towns follow state law on who can get tax relief (veterans) and that option must be approved by town meeting (City Council in Laconia, I believe). So you first need the legislature to approve enabling legislation, then you need the city council to approve. That pushes a greater burden on other taxpayers to raise the same money. NOT GONNA Happen. But you can pay lawyers and lobbyists big dollars to end up saying "Gee, we're sorry. We thought we made a good case, but it didn't even make it out of committee. Here's the bill."

Question:
What flavor Kool-Aid are you drinking?
I'm not trying to be smug or facetious, but the weight of experience is overwhelming. Don't give this organization any money.

Do you respond to Robo calls?
I really don't want to be rude here, but I think you've been seriously mislead.
Exactly this, especially the "I'm surprised you're chasing this cloud" piece.

There's no way a town could ever allow this to happen--ever. The precedent would set up all those things other people have identified: I don't use the school system, so no taxes. I haven't ever called emergency taxes, so no taxes. I don't drink water from houses on the far side of town, so no taxes...

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Old 01-04-2020, 06:39 AM   #35
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You are all missing the target. This is a state wide nonprofit. Itís not costing me or the HOAs a dime. Iím not chasing a cloud. How can it hurt to attend a meeting, send an email or make a phone call to try to reduce my property tax or have the DOT take over the roads. Yes itís a very long shot but it might only cost just a little bit of time to try.


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Old 01-04-2020, 07:03 AM   #36
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www.drpower.com ....... is all you need to know about living on a private road .... which usually means a NH dirt road ..... and yes, it can be towed behind your 1993 Geo Tracker ..... for a super smooth dirt road ......
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Old 01-04-2020, 07:22 AM   #37
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In Joe's case, the gate house is the primary reason his roads are private. The city owns and maintains the water lines under the road. LOCs (bonds are not used anymore) have to be in place to be able to sell units in the community per town and NH attorneys generally for large subdivisions. Not gonna win either way Joe. Maybe win for more services though not reduced taxes. For example, If I were you I would be more pissed Laconia doesn't do garbage removal in your development. Laconia does in other private roads.
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Old 01-04-2020, 07:57 AM   #38
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Taxes are calculated based on the value of the property. If you put the same mainland house on an island it would be valued less and taxed at a lower amount so in effect you are already getting a discount for the lack of town.

TiltonBB, I beg to differ. I have a 2 bedroom, 1 bath, in heated, uninsulated island cottage valued at $600,000. On the mainland, I donít think it would bring anywhere near that. Iím not seeing a discount, in fact Iím paying a premium to fund schools, roads, fire & police protection for mainlanders.

With regards to a road maintenance rebate; HOAs may not use the town to plow their roads but they use public roads to access the HOA, shop, etc. how do you calculate the tax rebate? Everyone must have a GPS tracker to monitor usage? Tracking vs Live Free or die!! Hmmm who do you think wins?



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Old 01-04-2020, 08:36 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
Taxes are calculated based on the value of the property. If you put the same mainland house on an island it would be valued less and taxed at a lower amount so in effect you are already getting a discount for the lack of town services.

Without factual data to back it up I would think that someone purchasing on a private road where they have exposure to the costs of plowing roads and maintaining pavement might pay less for that property. Therefor the taxes would be lower.

As soon as you attempt to pick and choose (no kids in school, private road, don't use the town recycle center for trash Etc.) everyone will want a discount for what they think they pay for but don't use. The whole system will break down.

If this legislation is successful watch how many copycat bills get submitted by people with their own idea of what they don't get.
If I remember correctly this type of tax evaluation was active before the state took over tax evaluation in the 80's due to the education funding mess. We were on a dirt road not service in the winter in Gilford. We spent winters in Laconia. We payed the full rate in Laconia, but Gilford gave us a reduced seasonal rate. Along came the state and declared seasonal rate illegal. The property been with the family since 1892. We ended up selling in the 90's because of ridiculous property tax. Can you imagine seeing a 600% increase in property tax in a decade? At least taxes went down in Gilford for those who do not live on the lake.
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Old 01-04-2020, 10:52 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy View Post
TiltonBB, I beg to differ. I have a 2 bedroom, 1 bath, in heated, uninsulated island cottage valued at $600,000. On the mainland, I donít think it would bring anywhere near that. Iím not seeing a discount, in fact Iím paying a premium to fund schools, roads, fire & police protection for mainlanders.


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Hi RBG--having bought on the mainland waterfront just a few years ago, I am virtually certain that island waterfront is significantly less expensive than mainland waterfront on an apples to apples basis.

OK, your modest structure at $600K seems steep in a vacuum. But don't they show assessed land value and assessed structure value separately? You might compare your assessed land value to comparable plots on the mainland, or ask your assessor's office to do the same.
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Old 01-04-2020, 11:25 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy View Post
TiltonBB, I beg to differ. I have a 2 bedroom, 1 bath, in heated, uninsulated island cottage valued at $600,000. On the mainland, I donít think it would bring anywhere near that. Iím not seeing a discount, in fact Iím paying a premium to fund schools, roads, fire & police protection for mainlanders.

With regards to a road maintenance rebate; HOAs may not use the town to plow their roads but they use public roads to access the HOA, shop, etc. how do you calculate the tax rebate? Everyone must have a GPS tracker to monitor usage? Tracking vs Live Free or die!! Hmmm who do you think wins?

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If you feel that your property is over valued by the town have you filed for an abatement?

I had that issue in Gilford and brought them several comps from their website and they reduced my assessment. Remember, the assessment is done by humans that make mistakes!
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Old 01-04-2020, 12:53 PM   #42
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Seems to me that a private road isn't much different than a driveway, albeit a sometimes long driveway shared with other owners.

The city won't plow a private driveway either, will they?
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