Alton Bay Tax Abatements

abay · 04-14-2010, 11:05 AM

It has been one full year since the horrific fire at ABCCC, and Alton has finally made the decision to deny tax abatement requests to those who lost cottages due to the fire.

The reasoning behind this was that the homes were in place on April 1st, therefore, they should be taxed for the full year. Let it be understood that they were there for 12 days until the fire, yet the full year taxation applies.

Legal - yes. Morally - reprehensible.

NoRegrets · 04-14-2010, 11:54 AM

There is a message in the compassion that the local government applied to this situation. I will relate it to the administration of Health Care by the IRS.

I hope someone in Alton can reverse this for those that were impacted.

This'nThat · 04-14-2010, 08:44 PM

So, let's suppose Alton decides to rebate the taxes. But, it can't remove its expenses. Does that mean that every other citizen in Alton has to pay for those back taxes? If I was an Alton resident, why would anyone think that I should be forced to pay for someone else? And how much? An extra $100 from me for them? I don't understand the logic, here.

That might sound harsh, but it really isn't. If there's going to be a "community rebate" to a few individuals, that needs to be voted on by all citizens affected. Not decided by a few town selectmen who want to do good for a few at the expense of everyone else. The fire was a tragedy; but hopefully everyone had insurance to help pay for their expense. And certainly, if anyone decided it would be worthwhile to take donations, then everyone could make their own decision regarding their individual contribution.

NoRegrets · 04-14-2010, 11:49 PM

Your tax is based on land value plus improvement value or the value of the house. The house was destroyed 12 days into the tax year. I would expect the land still has value but to still have to pay for the house after it is destroyed is just wrong.
I am sure the amount of taxes these few cottages bring into the town were eclipsed by the new homes built last year. If the facts are true in the first post I have no compasion for the towns decision to charge a full year of tax.

lawn psycho · 04-15-2010, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

Your tax is based on land value plus improvement value or the value of the house. The house was destroyed 12 days into the tax year. I would expect the land still has value but to still have to pay for the house after it is destroyed is just wrong.
I am sure the amount of taxes these few cottages bring into the town were eclipsed by the new homes built last year. If the facts are true in the first post I have no compasion for the towns decision to charge a full year of tax.

Works both ways though. When you build a house if you completed the construction 12 days after the tax deadline when you got your CoO, you would get the lower tax benefit until the next cycle.

Also, none of this is determined by the selectmen. Property taxes are based on appraised value. Next year, if one of the impacted owners has not re-built the value will drop to the land value plus any improvements.

I'm surprised how people are getting worked up about this because this is how its always worked. If you build a deck or add on a room, etc. (and legally get the proper permits) your property taxes don't go up until the next tax cycle even though the improvements are complete.

NoRegrets · 04-15-2010, 12:13 PM

Hi Lawn Psyco!

I built a house in Mass. in the mid 80's. The city prorated my tax bill based on the date of the occupancy permit.

I would think there would be a process for a catastrophic event. There are so many scenarios that it would be hard to make provisions for taxes in the event of a partial loss but in Alton these properties were totally gone. There is no chance of repair or use. Insurance, rental loss, rebuild, abandon, or any other action is done from a position that you have paid for a year of tax on an item you no longer have. The tax bills are town specific. My town has the tax bill broken down by land, improvements (house and structures), and a line item for school.

Side note: LP - Thanks for the lawn info. We have a crew pulling stumps, leveling the yard, bringing in fill, and then seed. We are working out the details on when we will be ordering the seeds from the NY company you referred us to. I also know the soil is the key but don't have the bandwidth to address what to do yet.

Little Bear · 04-15-2010, 12:24 PM

Just curious if anyone has any historical information on the success/failure of their tax abatements in Alton. Has their been objectivity from the Assessor's office? I filed an abatement this year that's currently under review, which is the reason I ask.

RLW · 04-15-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Bear

Just curious if anyone has any historical information on the success/failure of their tax abatements in Alton. Has their been objectivity from the Assessor's office? I filed an abatement this year that's currently under review, which is the reason I ask.

I had very fast completion on a abatement for reassessment of lake front land.

Rattlesnake Guy · 04-15-2010, 08:18 PM

pro·rate (pr

-r

t

, pr

r

t

)

v. pro·rat·ed, pro·rat·ing, pro·rates
v.tr. To divide, distribute, or assess proportionately.

v.intr. To settle affairs on the basis of proportional distribution.

lawn psycho · 04-15-2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

pro·rate (pr

-r

t

, pr

r

t

)

v. pro·rat·ed, pro·rat·ing, pro·rates
v.tr. To divide, distribute, or assess proportionately.

v.intr. To settle affairs on the basis of proportional distribution.

This assumes that is how Alton does their tax assessments. It seems it depends on the municipality as most small towns probably don't have the resources to get a site assessment and then update the appraisal value on a real-time basis. If you do it for one, you have to do it for all.

Another issue is the Town can not pro-rate their annual budget in the middle of the fiscal cycle.

Slickcraft · 04-16-2010, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

This assumes that is how Alton does their tax assessments. It seems it depends on the municipality as most small towns probably don't have the resources to get a site assessment and then update the appraisal value on a real-time basis. If you do it for one, you have to do it for all.

Another issue is the Town can not pro-rate their annual budget in the middle of the fiscal cycle.

Alton has a full time professional assessor who does annual updates based on the prior year+ of sales data. Updates are done on classes of property types so some classes may warrant update based on sales data while others classes may not. All assessments, by NH law, are as of April 1st.

The annual town + school + county budgets (less non property tax revenue) determine the total amount to be collected in property taxes. The property assessment process determines how the total bill is split up. If another person pays less, you will pay more.

abay · 04-17-2010, 08:00 PM

As I had stated in my first post, this is legal. It's just the frustration of paying a full year tax bill based on 12 days of potential occupancy.

Also, there is no land value involved here. The cottages were all owned individually, but the land was owned by the Alton Bay Christian Conference Center. A ministry fee, which is in reality a land rental fee, was paid each year by the cottage owners. For the cottage owners, the fire left no value remaining whatsoever

Rattlesnake Guy · 04-17-2010, 08:55 PM

As an Alton taxpayer I think it would be reasonable for the town to prorate the value of the property when a new house is built and gets it's certificate of occupancy or if it is torn down or lost in a fire. The quantity of such transactions is the same as is done anyway. The tax is based on the "value" of the property. It would seem reasonable to have it the value as a function of time.

Argie's Wife · 04-18-2010, 08:35 AM

Abay - this isn't me taking issue with you post - just an honest question:
Have you asked for a meeting with the town's tax collector or town administrator to discuss this issue?

I agree that the ruling seems extreme but perhaps there's some explanation they can provide to justify the decision better... I'm wondering if it's not because of the large cost of fighting the fire on that most unfortunate afternoon last April...

04-14-2010, 11:05 AM	#1
abay Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Alton Bay Tax Abatements It has been one full year since the horrific fire at ABCCC, and Alton has finally made the decision to deny tax abatement requests to those who lost cottages due to the fire. The reasoning behind this was that the homes were in place on April 1st, therefore, they should be taxed for the full year. Let it be understood that they were there for 12 days until the fire, yet the full year taxation applies. Legal - yes. Morally - reprehensible. Last edited by abay; 04-14-2010 at 01:31 PM.

04-14-2010, 08:44 PM	#3
This'nThat Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 534 Thanks: 19 Thanked 134 Times in 61 Posts	Who pays? So, let's suppose Alton decides to rebate the taxes. But, it can't remove its expenses. Does that mean that every other citizen in Alton has to pay for those back taxes? If I was an Alton resident, why would anyone think that I should be forced to pay for someone else? And how much? An extra $100 from me for them? I don't understand the logic, here. That might sound harsh, but it really isn't. If there's going to be a "community rebate" to a few individuals, that needs to be voted on by all citizens affected. Not decided by a few town selectmen who want to do good for a few at the expense of everyone else. The fire was a tragedy; but hopefully everyone had insurance to help pay for their expense. And certainly, if anyone decided it would be worthwhile to take donations, then everyone could make their own decision regarding their individual contribution.

04-15-2010, 12:24 PM	#7
Little Bear Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 561 Thanks: 105 Thanked 237 Times in 126 Posts	Alton - Abatements in general Just curious if anyone has any historical information on the success/failure of their tax abatements in Alton. Has their been objectivity from the Assessor's office? I filed an abatement this year that's currently under review, which is the reason I ask.

04-15-2010, 08:18 PM	#9
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	pro·rate (pr-rt, prrt) v. pro·rat·ed, pro·rat·ing, pro·rates v.tr. To divide, distribute, or assess proportionately. v.intr. To settle affairs on the basis of proportional distribution.

04-14-2010, 11:54 AM	#2
NoRegrets Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hudson - NH Posts: 408 Thanks: 233 Thanked 212 Times in 88 Posts	There is a message in the compassion that the local government applied to this situation. I will relate it to the administration of Health Care by the IRS. I hope someone in Alton can reverse this for those that were impacted.

04-14-2010, 11:49 PM	#4
NoRegrets Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hudson - NH Posts: 408 Thanks: 233 Thanked 212 Times in 88 Posts	Your tax is based on land value plus improvement value or the value of the house. The house was destroyed 12 days into the tax year. I would expect the land still has value but to still have to pay for the house after it is destroyed is just wrong. I am sure the amount of taxes these few cottages bring into the town were eclipsed by the new homes built last year. If the facts are true in the first post I have no compasion for the towns decision to charge a full year of tax.

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to lawn psycho For This Useful Post:
Argie's Wife (04-15-2010), Eagle (04-18-2010), Pepper (04-15-2010), upthesaukee (04-15-2010)

04-15-2010, 12:13 PM	#6
NoRegrets Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hudson - NH Posts: 408 Thanks: 233 Thanked 212 Times in 88 Posts	Hi Lawn Psyco! I built a house in Mass. in the mid 80's. The city prorated my tax bill based on the date of the occupancy permit. I would think there would be a process for a catastrophic event. There are so many scenarios that it would be hard to make provisions for taxes in the event of a partial loss but in Alton these properties were totally gone. There is no chance of repair or use. Insurance, rental loss, rebuild, abandon, or any other action is done from a position that you have paid for a year of tax on an item you no longer have. The tax bills are town specific. My town has the tax bill broken down by land, improvements (house and structures), and a line item for school. Side note: LP - Thanks for the lawn info. We have a crew pulling stumps, leveling the yard, bringing in fill, and then seed. We are working out the details on when we will be ordering the seeds from the NY company you referred us to. I also know the soil is the key but don't have the bandwidth to address what to do yet.

04-17-2010, 08:00 PM	#12
abay Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	As I had stated in my first post, this is legal. It's just the frustration of paying a full year tax bill based on 12 days of potential occupancy. Also, there is no land value involved here. The cottages were all owned individually, but the land was owned by the Alton Bay Christian Conference Center. A ministry fee, which is in reality a land rental fee, was paid each year by the cottage owners. For the cottage owners, the fire left no value remaining whatsoever

04-17-2010, 08:55 PM	#13
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	As an Alton taxpayer I think it would be reasonable for the town to prorate the value of the property when a new house is built and gets it's certificate of occupancy or if it is torn down or lost in a fire. The quantity of such transactions is the same as is done anyway. The tax is based on the "value" of the property. It would seem reasonable to have it the value as a function of time.

04-18-2010, 08:35 AM	#14
Argie's Wife Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Alton Posts: 1,908 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 533 Thanked 579 Times in 260 Posts	Abay - this isn't me taking issue with you post - just an honest question: Have you asked for a meeting with the town's tax collector or town administrator to discuss this issue? I agree that the ruling seems extreme but perhaps there's some explanation they can provide to justify the decision better... I'm wondering if it's not because of the large cost of fighting the fire on that most unfortunate afternoon last April...