Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Winnipesaukee Forums > General Discussion
Home Forums Gallery Blogs YouTube Channel Classifieds Links Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-01-2021, 11:59 AM   #1
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Default .... remove the railroad track .... build a walking/bicycle trail!

Removing that Weirs Beach, single railroad track, that's about 9'6" wide with the wood RR-ties and replacing it with a 10-12' wide walking, running, and bicycling trail paved with gray stone dust gravel could really power-up both of these Winnipesaukee Pier and Winnipesaukee Marketplace building venues.

DPW and municipal trucks like fire rescue vehicles are all usually 8'-wide, and most public roads and interstate highways have lanes that are 12' wide so removing the very much under-used single RR-track and wood ties and replacing it with a gray granite stone dust gravel tourist/community trail would be a hugely welcome improvement to the Weirs waterfront area!

Here in 2021-central New Hampshire, everything gets moved by a car or a truck with black rubber, inflated tires, and nothing gets moved on the steel railroad rails, no more.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 01-06-2021 at 10:32 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post:
DotRat (01-04-2021), subaruliving (01-20-2021)
Old 01-05-2021, 03:30 PM   #2
Patofnaud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Tilton/Paugus Bay
Posts: 196
Thanks: 12
Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Removing that Weirs Beach, single railroad track, that's about 9'6" wide with the wood RR-ties and replacing it with a 10-12' wide walking, running, and bicycling trail paved with gray stone dust gravel could really power-up both of these Winnipesaukee Pier and Winnipesaukee Marketplace building venues.

DPW and municipal trucks like fire rescue vehicles are all usually 8'-wide, and most public roads and interstate highways have lanes that are 12' wide so removing the very much under-used single RR-track and wood ties and replacing it with a gray granite stone dust gravel tourist/community trail would be a hugely welcome improvement to the Weirs waterfront area!

Here in 2021-central New Hampshire, everything gets moved by a car or a truck with black rubber, inflated tires, and nothing gets moved on the steel railroad rails, no more.
*groan* ack, please,,, no.
Patofnaud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 04:09 PM   #3
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 2,871
Thanks: 860
Thanked 832 Times in 546 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Removing that Weirs Beach, single railroad track, that's about 9'6" wide with the wood RR-ties and replacing it with a 10-12' wide walking, running, and bicycling trail paved with gray stone dust gravel could really power-up both of these Winnipesaukee Pier and Winnipesaukee Marketplace building venues.

DPW and municipal trucks like fire rescue vehicles are all usually 8'-wide, and most public roads and interstate highways have lanes that are 12' wide so removing the very much under-used single RR-track and wood ties and replacing it with a gray granite stone dust gravel tourist/community trail would be a hugely welcome improvement to the Weirs waterfront area!

Here in 2021-central New Hampshire, everything gets moved by a car or a truck with black rubber, inflated tires, and nothing gets moved on the steel railroad rails, no more.
Absolutely not.

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 08:40 PM   #4
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Default

Photographs .... http://www.americantrails.org/resour...r-fines-trails .... showing crushed granite stone dust gravel trails .... more natural looking and more water absorbent than paved black asphalt .... the way to do it with the Paugus Bay-Weirs Beach-Meredith Bay trail after removing those ugly, two steel rails and wood rr-ties.

That single railroad track that runs through the Weirs has become basically a total waste of a State of NH waterfront embankment. During the 2020-pandemic, the Winnipesaukee Rail Road scenic railroad car service was closed due to the confines of the railroad cars and the coronavirus. If that embankment had been a 12' wide granite gravel trail, it would have been used by many different trail-goers on foot, in running shoes, in wheel chairs, with walkers, on bicycles ..... regardless the pandemic .... as a go-to place to get away from the pandemic .... similar to a hiking trail.

With the railroad occupying the embankment, it has become an ugly, private property, under-used waterfront property. The lake belongs to the people of the State of NH, and the same should be true for what is now the railroad's embankment by removing the single rr-track and making it into a trail.

Remove that ugly old and totally UNUSED rr-track, and build it into a trail, 12' wide, made using small, fine, crushed gray granite paving gravel.

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/sidewalk...ly-gravel-path

Ok ....... so, here's a question for Wednesday, January 6, 2021: What will be 12-feet wide, 9-miles long, paved with gray granite crushed stone, and run along the shoreline of Lake Winnipesaukee going from Laconia to Weirs Beach to Meredith?
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 01-06-2021 at 10:34 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post:
subaruliving (01-20-2021)
Old 01-07-2021, 09:28 AM   #5
Patofnaud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Tilton/Paugus Bay
Posts: 196
Thanks: 12
Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
During the 2020-pandemic, the Winnipesaukee Rail Road scenic railroad car service was closed due to the confines of the railroad cars and the coronavirus.
Untrue. I know, I used it a couple of times this year. Not everyone likes to walk trails, not everyone CAN walk trails. My grandson loved his train ride. This tearing down stuff because YOU do not use without regard for how others feel about it is getting old.

Anyways, this is not a rail-trail thread, back to your normal programming.

Great that Marketplace is getting a facelift. Kudos to EastCoast.
Patofnaud is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Patofnaud For This Useful Post:
bostique (02-07-2021), erick26 (01-16-2021), joey2665 (01-07-2021), Longtimelurker (01-10-2021), Resident 2B (01-12-2021), Top-Water (01-10-2021)
Sponsored Links
Old 01-11-2021, 01:29 PM   #6
Trail Goer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: New Durham
Posts: 127
Thanks: 99
Thanked 81 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Photographs .... http://www.americantrails.org/resour...r-fines-trails .... showing crushed granite stone dust gravel trails .... more natural looking and more water absorbent than paved black asphalt .... the way to do it with the Paugus Bay-Weirs Beach-Meredith Bay trail after removing those ugly, two steel rails and wood rr-ties.

That single railroad track that runs through the Weirs has become basically a total waste of a State of NH waterfront embankment. During the 2020-pandemic, the Winnipesaukee Rail Road scenic railroad car service was closed due to the confines of the railroad cars and the coronavirus. If that embankment had been a 12' wide granite gravel trail, it would have been used by many different trail-goers on foot, in running shoes, in wheel chairs, with walkers, on bicycles ..... regardless the pandemic .... as a go-to place to get away from the pandemic .... similar to a hiking trail.

With the railroad occupying the embankment, it has become an ugly, private property, under-used waterfront property. The lake belongs to the people of the State of NH, and the same should be true for what is now the railroad's embankment by removing the single rr-track and making it into a trail.

Remove that ugly old and totally UNUSED rr-track, and build it into a trail, 12' wide, made using small, fine, crushed gray granite paving gravel.

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/sidewalk...ly-gravel-path

Ok ....... so, here's a question for Wednesday, January 6, 2021: What will be 12-feet wide, 9-miles long, paved with gray granite crushed stone, and run along the shoreline of Lake Winnipesaukee going from Laconia to Weirs Beach to Meredith?
*Sigh* Not this again!
This issue with the WOW Trail, was put to bed in November 2019.
Trail Goer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Trail Goer For This Useful Post:
Biggd (01-11-2021), Top-Water (01-12-2021)
Old 01-13-2021, 10:25 AM   #7
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
Sounds like a bargain price.
The #1 best way to improve this Winnipesaukee Marketplace, 21 Weeks St, Laconia location is to remove the adjacent, single railroad track and wood ties and replace it with a 12' wide, PUBLIC walking/running/bicycle trail, paved with gray granite, small crushed stone that goes from Lakeport to Weirs Beach to Meredith.

It could be a significant game changer for the Weirs Beach, Lakeside Ave area.

Suggest you go take a good look at the building and the location over on Google Map/Earth.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post:
subaruliving (01-20-2021)
Old 01-13-2021, 11:41 AM   #8
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 2,891
Thanks: 1,323
Thanked 821 Times in 510 Posts
Default

Same @#$% over and over and over again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
The #1 best way to improve this Winnipesaukee Marketplace, 21 Weeks St, Laconia location is to remove the adjacent, single railroad track and wood ties and replace it with a 12' wide, PUBLIC walking/running/bicycle trail, paved with gray granite, small crushed stone that goes from Lakeport to Weirs Beach to Meredith.

It could be a significant game changer for the Weirs Beach, Lakeside Ave area.

Suggest you go take a good look at the building and the location over on Google Map/Earth.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Biggd For This Useful Post:
DEJ (01-14-2021), Janet (01-13-2021)
Old 01-13-2021, 11:50 AM   #9
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
Same @#$% over and over and over again!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
For a business to succeed, it needs customers, and replacing that ugly, mostly not used single railroad track with a 9-mile long, walking-running-bicycle trail would bring a lot more people and customers to and through the Weirs, Lakeside Ave business area. Replacing the railroad track with a 12-foot wide, gray fine gravel trail, would be a big business boost to both the Winnipesaukee Marketplace, the Winnipesaukee Pier and other nearby business venues including the Mount Washington cruise ship.

Visitors could pedal a bicycle from Meredith to Weirs Beach to Lakeport, and return, and take a 2 1/2-hour cruise on the Mount Washington along the way to take a scenic lake boat tour in the middle of their bicycle pedal trek. Or, they can take a break from bicycling and hit The Dive for an hour, or something.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 12:29 PM   #10
garysanfran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco/Meredith
Posts: 1,067
Thanks: 361
Thanked 445 Times in 211 Posts
Default During bike week...

Without a bike, how do those folks with money in their pockets get from Meredith to The Weirs without the train? I've also seen people getting off the train at The Weirs and getting back on later for the trip back to where they came from.

The train is a bit of local scenic nostalgia that I love seeing go by when I'm in the boat exiting Weirs Channel into Paugus Bay. The train is on the right through a stretch with no houses and the entire train is visible...
Attached Images
  
__________________
Gary
~~~~_/) ~~~
~~~~~~~~
garysanfran is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to garysanfran For This Useful Post:
Crusty (01-18-2021), erick26 (01-16-2021), fatlazyless (01-13-2021)
Old 01-13-2021, 12:57 PM   #11
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Default

Well ...... the distance along the existing train track from Lakeport to Weirs Beach is about three miles, and from Weirs Beach to Meredith is about six miles. It runs alongside the lake shoreline for the most ways, is flat, level, and mostly straight with a few curves.

It is a single railroad track that has been in place since sometime like 1885.

99.5% or more of the time, it is totally empty of any railroad train, so it is almost totally unused.

The embankment shoreline land is owned by the State of New Hampshire and leased out to the Winnipesaukee Railroad, a warm weather, tourist railroad business that carries passengers out for a scenic railroad ride.

Without pedaling a bicycle, people can walk, wheel chair, ambulatory care walker, cross country ski or bypass the proposed new replacement trail and use a car to get from Meredith to Weirs Beach via Route 3.

This 12-foot wide, fine gray gravel trail could be built so it is two inches higher at the center line, a trail crest or high area, for best drainage of rainfall and snow melt.

Pedaling a bicycle and walking are the primary use on what would be a two-way, 12'-wide, gray fine small gravel trail with NO motorized vehicles allowed except for the dpw, police and fire.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 01-13-2021 at 01:27 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post:
subaruliving (01-20-2021)
Old 01-13-2021, 08:20 PM   #12
Top-Water
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 819
Thanks: 1,448
Thanked 718 Times in 433 Posts
Default

Same @#$% over and over and over again!
Top-Water is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Top-Water For This Useful Post:
Biggd (01-13-2021), BroadHopper (01-14-2021), DEJ (01-14-2021), ishoot308 (01-13-2021), Janet (01-14-2021), upthesaukee (01-14-2021)
Old 01-14-2021, 09:59 AM   #13
Blyblvrd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Londonderry & Moultonborough
Posts: 105
Thanks: 44
Thanked 18 Times in 13 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
For a business to succeed, it needs customers, and replacing that ugly, mostly not used single railroad track with a 9-mile long, walking-running-bicycle trail would bring a lot more people and customers to and through the Weirs, Lakeside Ave business area. Replacing the railroad track with a 12-foot wide, gray fine gravel trail, would be a big business boost to both the Winnipesaukee Marketplace, the Winnipesaukee Pier and other nearby business venues including the Mount Washington cruise ship.

Visitors could pedal a bicycle from Meredith to Weirs Beach to Lakeport, and return, and take a 2 1/2-hour cruise on the Mount Washington along the way to take a scenic lake boat tour in the middle of their bicycle pedal trek. Or, they can take a break from bicycling and hit The Dive for an hour, or something.
The best way for this forum to succeed is to remove FLL from it.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Blyblvrd is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Blyblvrd For This Useful Post:
DEJ (01-14-2021), stingray (01-21-2021)
Old 01-14-2021, 10:41 AM   #14
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 2,891
Thanks: 1,323
Thanked 821 Times in 510 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blyblvrd View Post
The best way for this forum to succeed is to remove FLL from it.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
That's a little extreme, don't you think?
He's harmless, he just litters the forum with nonsense. You don't have to read it.
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Biggd For This Useful Post:
Doobs41378 (01-18-2021)
Old 01-14-2021, 12:01 PM   #15
Charlie T
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 262
Thanks: 177
Thanked 139 Times in 63 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blyblvrd View Post
The best way for this forum to succeed is to remove FLL from it.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
It seems to me this forum is pretty damn sucessful, thanks to Don's unwavering efforts. FLL though mostly spewing nonsense is pretty harmless, his posts do offer a lighthearted view of things. As others have said, if you don't want to read his post's........ DON"T

Charlie T
Charlie T is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Charlie T For This Useful Post:
mhtranger (01-15-2021)
Old 01-14-2021, 12:38 PM   #16
garysanfran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco/Meredith
Posts: 1,067
Thanks: 361
Thanked 445 Times in 211 Posts
Default

The trend today is to stamp out diversity of opinion. You have an opinion opposite mine? You must be wrong. You must be removed!

This site would be boring without diversity of opinion. And it is true, some division is destructive and some constructive. Chose wisely.

FLL is a neighbor of mine. DO I want him removed?

Nope!
__________________
Gary
~~~~_/) ~~~
~~~~~~~~
garysanfran is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 21 Users Say Thank You to garysanfran For This Useful Post:
AC2717 (01-14-2021), Bernie Girl (01-15-2021), Biggd (01-14-2021), BoatHouse (01-14-2021), Charlie T (01-14-2021), christo1 (01-16-2021), Cindido (01-19-2021), Crusty (01-18-2021), CTYankee (01-14-2021), Doobs41378 (01-18-2021), DougNH (01-19-2021), FlyingScot (01-19-2021), gravy boat (01-19-2021), hazelnut (01-19-2021), jbolty (01-19-2021), mhtranger (01-15-2021), rander7823 (01-14-2021), subaruliving (01-14-2021), Susie Cougar (01-14-2021), TheRoBoat (01-14-2021), TiltonBB (01-14-2021)
Old 01-14-2021, 08:03 PM   #17
Blyblvrd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Londonderry & Moultonborough
Posts: 105
Thanks: 44
Thanked 18 Times in 13 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by garysanfran View Post
The trend today is to stamp out diversity of opinion. You have an opinion opposite mine? You must be wrong. You must be removed!
Well that escalated pretty quickly! It was intended to be a sarcastic joke, my apologies if it offended anyone. I posted my comment not because I disagree with his opinion, I have no opinion on this topic, but because the same rhetoric over and over, personal statements that don’t ever really seem to add to the narrative of the forum topic, are getting old for me. It’s just my opinion. I’ll return to my usual practice of taking a break from this forum until my batteries are recharged and I can read what I love about Winni and scroll past FLL’s comments.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Blyblvrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2021, 08:05 PM   #18
Blyblvrd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Londonderry & Moultonborough
Posts: 105
Thanks: 44
Thanked 18 Times in 13 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie T View Post
It seems to me this forum is pretty damn sucessful, thanks to Don's unwavering efforts. FLL though mostly spewing nonsense is pretty harmless, his posts do offer a lighthearted view of things. As others have said, if you don't want to read his post's........ DON"T

Charlie T
Agree on all points.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Blyblvrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2021, 09:10 PM   #19
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 2,627
Thanks: 768
Thanked 969 Times in 605 Posts
Default Lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blyblvrd View Post
Well that escalated pretty quickly! It was intended to be a sarcastic joke, my apologies if it offended anyone. I posted my comment not because I disagree with his opinion, I have no opinion on this topic, but because the same rhetoric over and over, personal statements that donít ever really seem to add to the narrative of the forum topic, are getting old for me. Itís just my opinion. Iíll return to my usual practice of taking a break from this forum until my batteries are recharged and I can read what I love about Winni and scroll past FLLís comments.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
1. If you don't like somebody's posts, you can block them. If it is an important post, the next reader will likely quote it ad you can read it there as something that has been vouched for by another reader as being worthy.
2. I too, have made what I thought were amusing or sarcastic remarks and resulted in the next several posters bringing the wrath of Khan down upon me. When you make such a post, include (LOL) at the end so the illiterates who take everything literally and seriously, will understand (LOL).
Descant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2021, 01:35 AM   #20
garysanfran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco/Meredith
Posts: 1,067
Thanks: 361
Thanked 445 Times in 211 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blyblvrd View Post
Well that escalated pretty quickly! It was intended to be a sarcastic joke, my apologies if it offended anyone. I posted my comment not because I disagree with his opinion, I have no opinion on this topic, but because the same rhetoric over and over, personal statements that donít ever really seem to add to the narrative of the forum topic, are getting old for me. Itís just my opinion. Iíll return to my usual practice of taking a break from this forum until my batteries are recharged and I can read what I love about Winni and scroll past FLLís comments.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Do not leave...Your opinions are very welcome in the spirit of shared cohesion. Our country is very divided and we need a Statesman approach to this divisiveness.
__________________
Gary
~~~~_/) ~~~
~~~~~~~~
garysanfran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2021, 07:43 AM   #21
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Exclamation ...... this rr-track is a business killer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
Sounds like a bargain price.
Someone here must have the 'puter skills to post some good photos here from Google Maps/Earth for that Winnipesaukee Marketplace at 21 Weeks St to show why it probably got sold for what seems like a low price at $250,000.

Looking at the layout for this location, it seems to have some very wackadoozie access issues with that single railroad track, the overhead pedestrian foot bridge, and visibility from Lakeside Ave. It adds up to a business impossible situation, here, there, at 21 Weeks St ....... that Winnipesaukee Marketplace location is just totally doomed by the railroad track being there.

Once upon a time, many many years ago, that single railroad track was probably the source for many customers to this 21 Weeks St building for wharever type of retail use, it had. With basically NO TRAINS on the railroad track, there are NO CUSTOMERS for that Winnipesaukee Marketplace building (period!) coming in or as not seen by a potential customer on Lakeside Ave.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2021, 08:14 AM   #22
BrunoSR
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 27
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Someone here must have the 'puter skills to post some good photos here from Google Maps/Earth for that Winnipesaukee Marketplace at 21 Weeks St to show why it probably got sold for what seems like a low price at $250,000.

Looking at the layout for this location, it seems to have some very wackadoozie access issues with that single railroad track, the overhead pedestrian foot bridge, and visibility from Lakeside Ave. It adds up to a business impossible situation, here, there, at 21 Weeks St ....... that Winnipesaukee Marketplace location is just totally doomed by the railroad track being there.

Once upon a time, many many years ago, that single railroad track was probably the source for many customers to this 21 Weeks St building for wharever type of retail use, it had. With basically NO TRAINS on the railroad track, there are NO CUSTOMERS for that Winnipesaukee Marketplace building (period!) coming in or as not seen by a potential customer on Lakeside Ave.
Any reason to take a shot at the railroad??

I know the folks at Flight Craft, they are smart and great folks. I am sure they know what they are doing and the RR won't hinder them at all.
BrunoSR is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BrunoSR For This Useful Post:
erick26 (01-16-2021)
Old 01-15-2021, 08:23 AM   #23
SAMIAM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 2,603
Thanks: 231
Thanked 1,349 Times in 457 Posts
Default

FLL is an interesting guy. He does make lots of eccentric and rambling posts but on the rare occasion that he is serious his posts are well researched and intelligent. Also, he never takes offense when someone makes fun of him and I don't ever recall an angry response directed at anyone.
Just my .02
SAMIAM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to SAMIAM For This Useful Post:
Biggd (01-15-2021), Cindido (01-19-2021), Cobalt 25 (01-16-2021), Doobs41378 (01-18-2021), DougNH (01-19-2021), gravy boat (01-19-2021), hazelnut (01-19-2021), KPW (01-18-2021), stingray (01-21-2021), Susie Cougar (01-15-2021), TiltonBB (01-19-2021)
Old 01-15-2021, 08:37 AM   #24
upthesaukee
Senior Member
 
upthesaukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 5,221
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 1,976
Thanked 1,707 Times in 949 Posts
Default Quite true

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMIAM View Post
FLL is an interesting guy. He does make lots of eccentric and rambling posts but on the rare occasion that he is serious his posts are well researched and intelligent. Also, he never takes offense when someone makes fun of him and I don't ever recall an angry response directed at anyone.
Just my .02
Quite true.

However, there are sometimes that wherever FLL writes his posts, there seems to be an echo, echo, echo, echo-o-o-o within the same thread.

Dave
__________________
I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!
upthesaukee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2021, 09:18 AM   #25
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,940
Thanks: 999
Thanked 1,250 Times in 746 Posts
Default

I find it takes less effort to scroll past what I don't want to read than to complain about it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
thinkxingu is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to thinkxingu For This Useful Post:
Biggd (01-15-2021), chipj29 (01-29-2021), erick26 (01-16-2021)
Old 01-15-2021, 09:25 AM   #26
phoenix
Senior Member
 
phoenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: phoenix and moultonboro
Posts: 1,205
Thanks: 20
Thanked 157 Times in 116 Posts
Default

there are some other posters that have different posts but this should be open to all. With the exception of vitriolic posts. Keep them coming FLL and agree with Bob you have some good posts and some longer " different ones" . each of us should decide what we want to read. Don of course moderates the offensive ones. I have been on this forum a long time and it gives me insight and chuckles at times. Since I am only at the lake a few months a year this forum keeps me wanting to come back again
__________________
it's tough to make predictions specially about the future
phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2021, 02:03 PM   #27
Denis D
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 44
Thanks: 3
Thanked 16 Times in 14 Posts
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMIAM View Post
FLL is an interesting guy. He does make lots of eccentric and rambling posts but on the rare occasion that he is serious his posts are well researched and intelligent. Also, he never takes offense when someone makes fun of him and I don't ever recall an angry response directed at anyone.
Just my .02
I've often thought that FLL has everyone fooled and is probably a brilliant Ivy league college professor who took some acting classes and uses the forum to practice his skills

That said, I enjoy reading most of his posts.
__________________
Denis in NJ
Denis D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2021, 02:17 PM   #28
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Default

Thanks for all your forum support ...... is totally great to be here in central New Hampshire and the Winnipesaukee Forum is more fun than a six-pak of Guinness dark in those lovely 16-oz bottles ..... here-here!

So what's the lastest with someone going to Google Maps/Earth and posting some excellent quality photos showing the wackadoozie location and the wackadoozie access and the wackadoozie design for this Winnipesaukee Marketplace building at 21 Weeks St that recently got sold to Flightcraft for $250,000?

....... helloooooo garysanfran ........ you did a super excellent job with those big, up close railroad photos!
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2021, 02:47 PM   #29
Crusty
Senior Member
 
Crusty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Columbus OH / Smiths Pt
Posts: 113
Thanks: 142
Thanked 147 Times in 49 Posts
Smile A realization

It just occurred to me that FLL could be considered as the "railroad track" cluttering our view of the forum. Perhaps he could be replaced with some nicely-graded 'gray granite stone dust gravel'. Of course, this would just validate his point of view, so please ignore the recommendation. :-)
Crusty is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Crusty For This Useful Post:
Biggd (01-18-2021), Top-Water (01-18-2021)
Old 01-18-2021, 05:26 PM   #30
Trail Goer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: New Durham
Posts: 127
Thanks: 99
Thanked 81 Times in 46 Posts
Default

FLL is going to be sad to learn that the "seldom used and ugly railroad tracks" that he has referenced over and over, could very well see and uptick in traffic in the foreseeable future, and I'm not talking about the scenic railroad operations either. I'm talking about that tiny little freight railroad, call New England Southern, who holds freight rights on those same tracks and is now a wholly owned subsidiary of Vermont Rail System (VTR). They've already signed on a new customer, who will be shipping 40 car trains of aggregates 3 to 4 days a week, out of Tilton, NH. Last I heard, they are hoping to get those trains rolling by the end of this summer. With VTR, aggressively pursuing other potential customers north of the lake and with CSX, looking to purchase Pan Am Railways. NH will have direct access to a Class I railroad for first time. That will improve shipping rates and over all transit times, while eliminating a middle party from the picture. For once in many, many decades, this state will start to look attractive to potential businesses, if that purchase gets approved by Surface Transportation Board.
Trail Goer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Trail Goer For This Useful Post:
Top-Water (01-18-2021)
Old 01-18-2021, 06:11 PM   #31
Top-Water
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 819
Thanks: 1,448
Thanked 718 Times in 433 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty View Post
It just occurred to me that FLL

Are you sure its not Choo Choo Charlie.

Top-Water is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Top-Water For This Useful Post:
FlyingScot (01-19-2021), gravy boat (01-19-2021)
Old 01-18-2021, 07:35 PM   #32
steve-on-mark
Senior Member
 
steve-on-mark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Epping, NH / Mark Island
Posts: 676
Thanks: 45
Thanked 357 Times in 175 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Top-Water View Post
Are you sure its not Choo Choo Charlie.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ExSlyoVTX3I" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Charlie says " love my Walmart noodles..."

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
steve-on-mark is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to steve-on-mark For This Useful Post:
gravy boat (01-19-2021)
Old 01-18-2021, 07:55 PM   #33
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Default

For a freight railroad to be successful it needs regular customers like shipping Wyoming coal to an Alabama coal burning, electric power plant by railroad freight train on a regular weekly freight run.

Almost all freight goes on a truck over the highway system.

About one hour north on Mt Washington, the Cog RR tried running a ski train for skiing on Mt Washington, www.nelsap.org/nh/cog.html in the winter of 2005-2006.

How's about a ski train to bring Boston skiers to Gunstock for the weekend? I don't think that would work. Here in New Hampshire, freight goes by truck and people go by car or bus.

www.thecog.com is a very happening New Hampshire passenger railroad.

With no passengers, no freight, and no trains, that single railroad track that runs from Lakeport to Weirs Beach to Meredith is just taking up space on the 9-mile lake waterfront shoreline embankment.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post:
subaruliving (01-19-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 07:41 AM   #34
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,279
Thanks: 566
Thanked 1,069 Times in 735 Posts
Default

I would love to see the railroads come back. It would save a lot of truck traffic on the roads and since the US is losing so many drivers to retirement, tough regulations, etc.it would help solve that problem. Lots of things could be hauled by carload to NH other than dirt. Lumber is one that comes to mind. Furniture, lots of big items.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tis For This Useful Post:
stingray (01-21-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 08:15 AM   #35
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Default

One hundred years ago, in 1921, the railroad was very big in New Hampshire with many more miles of railroad track than today.

Maybe the State of NH would consider to relocate this unused Winnipesaukee railroad track away from the shoreline, and out through the backwoods in Belmont, Sanbornton, and New Hampton out somewhere behind the west side of Lake Winnisquam.

So, what is the highest and best use for this 9-mile shoreline railroad right-of-way built in 1885? Is it an unused single railroad track or a community walking, running, and bicycling trail paved with fine, small, gray granite small gravel, 12' wide?

Here's a rail trail, work in progress about 35-miles to the south .... www.concordlakesunapeerailtrail.com ..... Concord, Hopkinton, Warner, Bradford, and Newbury, NH
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post:
MRD (01-19-2021), subaruliving (01-19-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 08:54 AM   #36
Onshore
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 481
Thanks: 12
Thanked 379 Times in 136 Posts
Default

The Weirs as a vacation destination exists because of the railroad. Members of various social and religious organizations with members that lived in southern NH, MA and beyond built small vacation communities there because their members could arrive by train. If you really want the re-invigorate the Weirs you might be better served to restore rail service in the Boston - Tilton corridor rather than remove the Meredith - Laconia link.
Onshore is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Onshore For This Useful Post:
Top-Water (01-19-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 09:16 AM   #37
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Default

Here's the http://www.conwayscenic.com/excursio...tash-mountain/, CSRX-a 51-mile scenic excursion running on a track, abandoned by the B&M in September 1972, through North Conway, Intervale, Bartlett, Hart's Location, Crawford Notch, and Bretton Woods.

Passengers typically park their automobiles at the North Conway train station parking lot and board the train for a round trip, scenic excursion.

Conway Scenic is currently running a 90-minute winter snow train excursion, running from North Conway to Attitash Mountain in Bartlett with prices starting at $32-coach seating.

Well behaved dogs on a leash are permitted in the coach class, but are not allowed in first class or in premium class, with a limit of one dog per passenger, service dogs excluded from these limits ..... woof-woof-woof ...... arrroooooo!
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 10:00 AM   #38
jbolty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 565
Thanks: 243
Thanked 220 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onshore View Post
The Weirs as a vacation destination exists because of the railroad. Members of various social and religious organizations with members that lived in southern NH, MA and beyond built small vacation communities there because their members could arrive by train. If you really want the re-invigorate the Weirs you might be better served to restore rail service in the Boston - Tilton corridor rather than remove the Meredith - Laconia link.
I tend to agree with FLL. No one is traveling by train to weirs beach. After playing skee ball for 10 minutes what else is there to do there? The train is kind of neat but I would see a lot more people walking, biking or snowmobiling between the towns and maybe having lunch or dinner and for a much longer season
jbolty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 11:35 AM   #39
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 2,891
Thanks: 1,323
Thanked 821 Times in 510 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbolty View Post
I tend to agree with FLL. No one is traveling by train to weirs beach. After playing skee ball for 10 minutes what else is there to do there? The train is kind of neat but I would see a lot more people walking, biking or snowmobiling between the towns and maybe having lunch or dinner and for a much longer season
I enjoy taking my grand children on a train ride along the lake every summer. Would I walk it, probably not.
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 11:46 AM   #40
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 2,871
Thanks: 860
Thanked 832 Times in 546 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbolty View Post
I tend to agree with FLL. No one is traveling by train to weirs beach. After playing skee ball for 10 minutes what else is there to do there? The train is kind of neat but I would see a lot more people walking, biking or snowmobiling between the towns and maybe having lunch or dinner and for a much longer season
I would think the owners of the the Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad might not agree with you as far as ridership.. I'm sure if there were not enough passengers each season to support the expenses and turn a profit they would not continue to operate the train.
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 12:03 PM   #41
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Default

With all the hilly roads, automobile traffic on the roads, and non-existent shoulder areas next to the roadways, a mostly flat 9-mile lakeside walking and bicycle trail would be an incredibly super-duper, totally fantastic incentive for people to go pedal a bicycle ride.

Having a great place to go bicycling would just totally hit-the-spot for the lakes region residents and visitors! ...
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post:
subaruliving (01-19-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 12:09 PM   #42
jetskier
Senior Member
 
jetskier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Reading, MA and South Down Shores
Posts: 829
Thanks: 50
Thanked 175 Times in 107 Posts
Post Stuff

This is the quote from Ben Clark in terms of the Hobo and Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroads...note that it is pre-COVID:

Clark said his railroad provides $100,000 per year in fees to the state. This figure is 10 percent of ticket sales of about $1 million annually.

In addition, New Hampshire Southern Railroad has a federal common carrier license to use the tracks for freight, which it does in the fall and spring outside of tourist season.

This is the position of NH DOT on the matter:

The removal of the rail line in an active rail corridor is contrary to state law (RSA 228:60-a) and would physically separate the line and points north of Laconia would be isolated from the general railway system. As a reminder, the entirety of the line is actively used by two railroad operators that provide tourist excursion and freight railroad service. This resolution would have a negative impact on both services.

On a another subject, while FLL is certainly entitled to his opinion, I personally find that when he hijacks threads it dilutes the discussion and creates unnecessary distractions...Just my 2 cents.

Jetskier
jetskier is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jetskier For This Useful Post:
Biggd (01-19-2021), joey2665 (01-19-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 12:35 PM   #43
TheProfessor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 682
Thanks: 16
Thanked 199 Times in 120 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
I enjoy taking my grand children on a train ride along the lake every summer.
What a great grandparent that you are.

Those children will always remember you for this. Embedded memories of happiness.
TheProfessor is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TheProfessor For This Useful Post:
Biggd (01-19-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 12:59 PM   #44
Trail Goer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: New Durham
Posts: 127
Thanks: 99
Thanked 81 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetskier View Post
This is the quote from Ben Clark in terms of the Hobo and Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroads...note that it is pre-COVID:

Clark said his railroad provides $100,000 per year in fees to the state. This figure is 10 percent of ticket sales of about $1 million annually.

In addition, New Hampshire Southern Railroad has a federal common carrier license to use the tracks for freight, which it does in the fall and spring outside of tourist season.

This is the position of NH DOT on the matter:

The removal of the rail line in an active rail corridor is contrary to state law (RSA 228:60-a) and would physically separate the line and points north of Laconia would be isolated from the general railway system. As a reminder, the entirety of the line is actively used by two railroad operators that provide tourist excursion and freight railroad service. This resolution would have a negative impact on both services.

On a another subject, while FLL is certainly entitled to his opinion, I personally find that when he hijacks threads it dilutes the discussion and creates unnecessary distractions...Just my 2 cents.

Jetskier
Not to mention there were two studies done in regards to the railroad and rail trail, one omitted info that supported the railroad to try and sell the trail as the better option. The new mayor of Laconia (before becoming mayor) was made aware of the 2nd study and asked for some time to look over that 2nd study. Fast forward to his first meeting as mayor, the removal rail in favor of the trail was dropped and a "Blue Ribbon" committee (that contains members from all interested parties including the railroad), was created to find an alternate way to build phase 3 of the WOW Trail. Case in point the railroad isn't going anywhere and as I already pointed out, there may be and uptick of rail traffic heading to points north of the lake in the foreseeable future. Tilton south, is going to see an uptick later this year with trains, 40 cars long, 3 to 4 days a week.

Last edited by Trail Goer; 01-19-2021 at 02:24 PM.
Trail Goer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Trail Goer For This Useful Post:
jetskier (01-19-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 01:07 PM   #45
garysanfran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco/Meredith
Posts: 1,067
Thanks: 361
Thanked 445 Times in 211 Posts
Default

I'd love to take a train to Boston. I'd use it. I took Amtrak from San Francisco (Emeryville) to Boston a couple years ago in a private roomette. Loved it. Met some great people and saw some great scenery.
__________________
Gary
~~~~_/) ~~~
~~~~~~~~
garysanfran is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to garysanfran For This Useful Post:
stingray (01-21-2021), upthesaukee (01-19-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 01:54 PM   #46
Woodsy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Weirs Beach
Posts: 1,730
Thanks: 57
Thanked 776 Times in 336 Posts
Default

From what I understand, it would cost $5M+ to build alongside the RR tracks from Lakeport to Weirs, not counting whatever the Southdown resistance would add to the price tag. So of course the folks like FLL and the owners of Patrick's Pub want the RR gone.


I am glad to hear the RR is getting some new customers! Now if we could just get them to run an old Steam train once in awhile!

Woodsy
__________________
The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.
Woodsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 04:10 PM   #47
jbolty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 565
Thanks: 243
Thanked 220 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2665 View Post
I would think the owners of the the Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad might not agree with you as far as ridership.. I'm sure if there were not enough passengers each season to support the expenses and turn a profit they would not continue to operate the train.
Whether they are making a profit or not it is an asset that is far underused.
jbolty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 04:21 PM   #48
jetskier
Senior Member
 
jetskier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Reading, MA and South Down Shores
Posts: 829
Thanks: 50
Thanked 175 Times in 107 Posts
Post That is the cost to remove the rails and build a trail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
From what I understand, it would cost $5M+ to build alongside the RR tracks from Lakeport to Weirs, not counting whatever the Southdown resistance would add to the price tag. So of course the folks like FLL and the owners of Patrick's Pub want the RR gone.


I am glad to hear the RR is getting some new customers! Now if we could just get them to run an old Steam train once in awhile!

Woodsy
Hi Woodsy,

The $5M figure is based on replacing the existing railbed with a trail (ie. rails to trails) the cost to build next to the existing railbed is much much higher - approximately $25M for the section from Lakeport to Weirs.

Jetskier
jetskier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 04:26 PM   #49
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 2,891
Thanks: 1,323
Thanked 821 Times in 510 Posts
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessor View Post
What a great grandparent that you are.

Those children will always remember you for this. Embedded memories of happiness.
They are all under 7 right now. I figure I have about another 5 years of train rides and then they'll be done.
I've already started them on hiking. So hopefully that will take over for the train rides as they get older.
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 04:43 PM   #50
garysanfran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco/Meredith
Posts: 1,067
Thanks: 361
Thanked 445 Times in 211 Posts
Default

The parking lot in back of Tower Hill has been full the last few times I was there and The Weathervane (Lobster in-the-Rough) was closed all summer, so that attraction was not in business.

I would imagine there are some that would like to see "The Mount" go away and create more docking.

I like little trips into the past...
__________________
Gary
~~~~_/) ~~~
~~~~~~~~
garysanfran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 05:18 PM   #51
Winilyme
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Ice in = CT / Ice out = Winnipesaukee
Posts: 226
Thanks: 57
Thanked 164 Times in 82 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
They are all under 7 right now. I figure I have about another 5 years of train rides and then they'll be done.
I've already started them on hiking. So hopefully that will take over for the train rides as they get older.
Until that is, they become grandparents and begin to enjoy train rides again
Winilyme is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Winilyme For This Useful Post:
Biggd (01-19-2021), Cobalt 25 (01-19-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 07:08 PM   #52
Trail Goer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: New Durham
Posts: 127
Thanks: 99
Thanked 81 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbolty View Post
Whether they are making a profit or not it is an asset that is far underused.
So I can gage what you consider to be an under used asset vs quality used asset, answer these questions: what is leading you to believe it's an under used asset? what would need to be done differently to make it a useful asset? Let's go north for comparison, do you think the line the Conway Scenic operates on (also a state owned rail line), is an under used asset?
Trail Goer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 07:19 PM   #53
TheTimeTraveler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 451
Thanks: 134
Thanked 145 Times in 77 Posts
Default

Discuss as we wish, but like it or not the railroad, and the railroad tracks are here to stay. Railroad lines fall under the jurisdiction of the Federal Government, and a process is in place for the official abandonment of any rail line. Petitions for abandonment can not (and will not) be considered as long as there is existing passenger or freight usage (which in this case there is).

All across America there are railroad tracks going thru various locations that were once considered very rural. Here we are 140 years later, and many of these once rural places (such as the line we are discussing) have become developed and more importantly FAR MORE VALUABLE in terms of dollars and potential other developmental uses.

Simply put, many rail lines running through cities in the United States have skyrocketed in value just because of their existing easements and locations. New rail lines would NEVER be allowed in these valuable locations today, but because they pre-exist they are left alone. Imagine in 2021 someone proposing a rail line running from Alton Bay to the Weirs along the waterfront? No way today, but back in 1880 that was perfectly acceptable, and the land wasn't nearly as valuable.

Think about it; if the concept of abandoning rail lines to pursue other (and maybe better) uses were allowed, then this would be happening all over the United States as communities and folks see fit. It's not going to happen as long as the Interstate Commerce Commission regulates the Railroads.
TheTimeTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TheTimeTraveler For This Useful Post:
garysanfran (01-19-2021), Top-Water (01-19-2021), Trail Goer (01-19-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 07:30 PM   #54
garysanfran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco/Meredith
Posts: 1,067
Thanks: 361
Thanked 445 Times in 211 Posts
Default

This has been discussed before, but there are more home owners in the Region now and fewer percentage of visiting renters.

The homeowners have done these things many times. And just don't do them much on a continuing basis. The economy once thrived on the "vacationers". Could this come back?

I can imagine a nice 1st class train from South Station to a gorgeous brand new resort with a great view at the top of Tower Hill next to Cumberland Farms in that huge empty piece of land with a fantastic view and location. Could walk to the Weirs for the train or Mount. Sit out the afternoon on the deck at Anthony's or The Dive. I think spending a day at The Weirs would be a fun. Spend the night and spend some money then get back on the train and the rest of the week is mine!
__________________
Gary
~~~~_/) ~~~
~~~~~~~~
garysanfran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 11:23 PM   #55
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 2,627
Thanks: 768
Thanked 969 Times in 605 Posts
Default Was Eisenhower wrong?

Eisenhower took his experience in Europe and pushed for the Intestate highway system. This led to suburban sprawl and overuse of fossil fuels for cars that we are now trying to eliminate. At the same time, tourists to Europe brag about the great rail systems and how efficient/convenient it is. Hmmm. Been to Disney World lately? Fly in, shuttle and bus to the hotel, tram/monorail, train, boat to the Magic Kingdom, etc. Masters at integrated transportation. Of course, highways are government subsidized, as the US government subsidizes highways. In a smarter world, we would have a more integrated transportation system.
The trains came to the Weirs because there were hotels/veteran facilities. If rail transport is to come back, other than an afternoon ride, we need destination hotels, casinos. etc. The Weirs needs a bigger definition than just a few hundred yards on Lakeside Avenue.
In any event, for the taxpayers to give up a tax paying entity and spend $MM so people can hike a mile or less, is just plain foolish. I know, I know, there's no cost. The Government pays for it.
Descant is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Descant For This Useful Post:
joey2665 (01-20-2021), Trail Goer (01-20-2021)
Old 01-20-2021, 08:03 AM   #56
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Exclamation ..... world's most BORING railroad, ever!

Clark's Bears in Lincoln/Woodstock has their www.whitemountaincentralrr.com which has a 1943 GE 65-ton diesel locomotive that was used by the Newport, Rhode Island railroad as well as a fantastic Climax steam locomotive that huffs and puffs big black smoke and hot white steam www.clarksbears.com/attractionsTrain.php and goes choo-choo-choo ..... which is one hell of an incredible old steam loco!

What you will NEVER see running along the Winnipesaukee Railroad is a steam locomotive, nor the Clark's Wolfman, either, just won't be happening here. For a FUN train ride, you need to go up to Lincoln and visit Clark's Bears, or go to Thompson and Meserve's Purchase at the western base of Mt Washington to ride www.thecog.com which is a truly astounding train ride up and down Mt Washington.

Riding this Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad www.hoborr.com/winnipesaukee-scenic-railroad/ is about as interesting as eating a day old, stale doughnut and falling asleep ........ it is unbelievably and totally BORING and the passenger coaches smell funny ...... what's that smell? ....... did someone take a flock of sheep on this train, or what? ....... t-t-trust me on that! ....

Is much better to remove these nine miles of basically never-ever used steel tracks and wood ties and build a 12-foot wide, soft gravel, rail trail designed for walking and riding a bicycle.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post:
subaruliving (01-20-2021)
Old 01-20-2021, 12:11 PM   #57
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 2,891
Thanks: 1,323
Thanked 821 Times in 510 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Clark's Bears in Lincoln/Woodstock has their www.whitemountaincentralrr.com which has a 1943 GE 65-ton diesel locomotive that was used by the Newport, Rhode Island railroad as well as a fantastic Climax steam locomotive that huffs and puffs big black smoke and hot white steam www.clarksbears.com/attractionsTrain.php and goes choo-choo-choo ..... which is one hell of an incredible old steam loco!

What you will NEVER see running along the Winnipesaukee Railroad is a steam locomotive, nor the Clark's Wolfman, either, just won't be happening here. For a FUN train ride, you need to go up to Lincoln and visit Clark's Bears, or go to Thompson and Meserve's Purchase at the western base of Mt Washington to ride www.thecog.com which is a truly astounding train ride up and down Mt Washington.

Riding this Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad www.hoborr.com/winnipesaukee-scenic-railroad/ is about as interesting as eating a day old, stale doughnut and falling asleep ........ it is unbelievably and totally BORING and the passenger coaches smell funny ...... what's that smell? ....... did someone take a flock of sheep on this train, or what? ....... t-t-trust me on that! ....

Is much better to remove these nine miles of basically never-ever used steel tracks and wood ties and build a 12-foot wide, soft gravel, rail trail designed for walking and riding a bicycle.
I disagree! While I'm a big fan of reviving non used railroad beds for rail trails. I'm against closing any tracks that still are being used by a business just to provide a place for you to walk and bike ride.
If there comes a day that the scenic railroad is no longer a viable business then that will be the time to look at building a rail trail.
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Biggd For This Useful Post:
jetskier (01-20-2021), Top-Water (01-20-2021), Trail Goer (01-20-2021)
Old 01-20-2021, 03:13 PM   #58
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 1,193
Thanks: 677
Thanked 531 Times in 316 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
I disagree! While I'm a big fan of reviving non used railroad beds for rail trails. I'm against closing any tracks that still are being used by a business just to provide a place for you to walk and bike ride.
If there comes a day that the scenic railroad is no longer a viable business then that will be the time to look at building a rail trail.
What if--just for discussion purposes--the business was serving 100 people per day, and a bike path would serve 500?

I don't know the "market" for a bike path in the area, but the bike path on the Cape does a HUGE amount of traffic, and serves up riders to plenty of businesses on the side. Way more than a RR ever would.
FlyingScot is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FlyingScot For This Useful Post:
MRD (01-20-2021)
Old 01-20-2021, 03:31 PM   #59
jbolty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 565
Thanks: 243
Thanked 220 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail Goer View Post
So I can gage what you consider to be an under used asset vs quality used asset, answer these questions: what is leading you to believe it's an under used asset? what would need to be done differently to make it a useful asset? Let's go north for comparison, do you think the line the Conway Scenic operates on (also a state owned rail line), is an under used asset?
I have no ax to grind against the railroad and it's kind of a nice attraction but I think public property should be used for the benefit the greatest number of people. The train goes back and forth a couple times per day and for the other 20 hours nothing uses it. If people staying in Meredith or Weirs could walk or bike or shuttle back and forth some way without a car it would benefit both and could be four seasons. With most of the lake front being private it would be great to have a path along the water and maybe there are a couple of leases given out for a snack bar along the way. I know it's not going to happen any time soon , if ever, but just seems like such a better use of the right of way. Not to mention there are hardly any roads in the area with a shoulder safe enough to walk or bike on and we can all use more exercise.
jbolty is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jbolty For This Useful Post:
MRD (01-21-2021), subaruliving (01-20-2021)
Old 01-20-2021, 04:53 PM   #60
TheTimeTraveler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 451
Thanks: 134
Thanked 145 Times in 77 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbolty View Post
I have no ax to grind against the railroad and it's kind of a nice attraction but I think public property should be used for the benefit the greatest number of people. The train goes back and forth a couple times per day and for the other 20 hours nothing uses it. If people staying in Meredith or Weirs could walk or bike or shuttle back and forth some way without a car it would benefit both and could be four seasons. With most of the lake front being private it would be great to have a path along the water and maybe there are a couple of leases given out for a snack bar along the way. I know it's not going to happen any time soon , if ever, but just seems like such a better use of the right of way. Not to mention there are hardly any roads in the area with a shoulder safe enough to walk or bike on and we can all use more exercise.
Who says the Railroad right of way is "Public Property" ? Granted, it is owned by the State, but that does not mean anyone can use. Quite the contrary.....

You are not allowed to walk on Interstate 93 (public property), and you're not allowed to legally walk on a Railroad easement.
TheTimeTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 05:07 PM   #61
Trail Goer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: New Durham
Posts: 127
Thanks: 99
Thanked 81 Times in 46 Posts
Default

The state owns an active railroad line, its not public property. The sole purpose of purchasing the rail line from the railroad, was to protect it and keep it open as a railroad corridor. In the 1970's, there was a series of washouts that occurred along the line and with the B&M in bankruptcy, couldn't afford to fix them, so the line was embargoed with active shippers still requiring the services of the railroad. So, the state stepped in and purchased it from the B&M, made the necessary repairs and leased it out to an operator, as required by federal law (the states purchase of this line had to be approve by then Interstate Commerce Commission). Fast-forward to the 1980's the state took bids for an operator to operate passenger service out of Lincoln, NH the Clark family (same family the owns Clarks Bears) submitted a bit and won, several years later they were invited to bid on the section along the lake and that where we are today. The freight operator is Vermont Rail System's, New England Southern Railroad and they are looking to grow the business and the passenger operator is Plymouth and Lincoln Railroad.
Trail Goer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Trail Goer For This Useful Post:
Biggd (01-20-2021), jetskier (01-20-2021), stingray (01-21-2021)
Old 01-20-2021, 05:23 PM   #62
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 2,627
Thanks: 768
Thanked 969 Times in 605 Posts
Default who pays?

The RR generates some tax revenue for NH and maintains the rail bed. Hikers and bikers want you and me to pay for their recreation facility, same as kayakers and canoes or rowboats want power boaters to pay for keeping the lakes healthy and launch ramps that they can use for free. Hiking trails require maintenance--it's great that the dues paying members of the Appalachian Mountain Club and similar organizations foot the bill so everybody else can hike for free. (NH does collect $$ at the parking areas, and $5 for the shuttle bus on I-93 in Franconia)
Snowmobile Clubs do a great job maintaining trails where folks hike for free in the summer. All you snowmobilers: when was the last time you got a thank you note from a hiker?
Descant is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Descant For This Useful Post:
Biggd (01-20-2021), Top-Water (01-20-2021), Trail Goer (01-20-2021)
Old 01-21-2021, 07:03 AM   #63
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Default

From the Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad website, here's a map ..... www.hoborr.com/map/ ...... showing their 9-mile route from Laconia to Weirs Beach to Meredith as it runs along the shoreline of Paugus Bay, Weirs Bay, and Meredith Bay.

Here's what looks like a two person bicycle style pedal cart that rolls over the tracks on four railroad wheels; a railroad pedal wagon, or something? Maybe it is a four person, pedal cart?

Rail bike adventures: www.hoborr.com/rail-bike-adventures/ ...... so, how about this? ....... never seen one of these rail-pedal-carts before?

Today is January 21, 2021 and there is little to no snow on these train tracks right now, plus there has not been a train on the tracks for many months, like since June, 2020. If it were a 12'-wide, soft gravel rail trail, it could have been used by the public for walking and bicycling all these many months during the pandemic.

As it is now, it's a TOTALLY unused single railroad track! .....
.....................

Here's a similar rail-cart-pedal venue ..... http://www.essexsteamtrain.com/exper.../rail-bike-2/# ...... from Essex, Connecticut which has more information about these new-fangled pedal carts.

These carts remind me of that old Wile E Coyote cartoon where the coyote gets run over by a railroad utility cart, or something? So, what happens when you meet another pedal cart that's coming the other way, directly down the rails into your cart ...... ha-ha-ha? .....

So's ...... it's probably a very good thing there's no REAL freight or passenger trains on this track otherwise these rail-pedal-carts could have a very large problem ......... sneer-sneer-sneer--!
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 01-21-2021 at 10:40 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post:
subaruliving (01-21-2021)
Old 01-21-2021, 02:28 PM   #64
mishman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 131
Thanks: 44
Thanked 66 Times in 28 Posts
Smile wading into treacherous waters....

Hesitant to wade into these shark infested waters but how many of these commenters have been on a well maintained bicycle trail in a tourism hot spot like our lake?
I admit that I don't know the number of train riders but I would wager many, many times more people (locals and tourists) would use the trail for hiking and cycling than train riders. These bike trails generate lots of tourism dollars as people want healthy forms of recreation. You can see it all around the country.
I have ridden bike trails in FL, on the west coast and principally in New England. Almost without exception, businesses along rail trails love the business these trails generates. Cyclists and walkers stop for refreshments, meals, a beer (or two) and come back again and again. Cycling is easy on the joints and I know many cyclists in their 70s who easily do 20 miles daily (especially along rail trails with their modest grade changes).
I would like to see trail accommodate more people than the limited numbers of train riders - and I have nothing against trains. It is simply a matter of highest and best use of this corridor. Hands down it is for people powered transport.
Well, I guess there is blood in the water now
mishman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mishman For This Useful Post:
MRD (01-21-2021)
Old 01-21-2021, 02:50 PM   #65
jbolty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 565
Thanks: 243
Thanked 220 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mishman View Post
Hesitant to wade into these shark infested waters but how many of these commenters have been on a well maintained bicycle trail in a tourism hot spot like our lake?
I admit that I don't know the number of train riders but I would wager many, many times more people (locals and tourists) would use the trail for hiking and cycling than train riders. These bike trails generate lots of tourism dollars as people want healthy forms of recreation. You can see it all around the country.
I have ridden bike trails in FL, on the west coast and principally in New England. Almost without exception, businesses along rail trails love the business these trails generates. Cyclists and walkers stop for refreshments, meals, a beer (or two) and come back again and again. Cycling is easy on the joints and I know many cyclists in their 70s who easily do 20 miles daily (especially along rail trails with their modest grade changes).
I would like to see trail accommodate more people than the limited numbers of train riders - and I have nothing against trains. It is simply a matter of highest and best use of this corridor. Hands down it is for people powered transport.
Well, I guess there is blood in the water now
if people want to get worked up over it that's on them; we're just talking here. The argument in favor of keeping the rails seems to boil down to "it's always been there and thus it shall ever be"
jbolty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2021, 03:23 PM   #66
Cobalt 25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 195
Thanks: 183
Thanked 34 Times in 18 Posts
Default

I live fairly close to the bike trail here on the Cape and my wife tells me we did over 100 miles on the trails in 2020, even though our boats come first. We ate (carefully and socially-distanced) at several of the restaurants and would have done more if not for Covid. As mentioned in previous posts, the Cape bike trails get tons of use.

But we stay at a place in Paugus that has the train going 50 yards from the house and our grandkids love it when it goes by.

I really have no dog in this fight. I like the bike trail AND trains!

Would that we could somehow have both.
Cobalt 25 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cobalt 25 For This Useful Post:
jbolty (01-21-2021)
Old 01-21-2021, 04:02 PM   #67
Woodsy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Weirs Beach
Posts: 1,730
Thanks: 57
Thanked 776 Times in 336 Posts
Default

The WOW trail co-exists with the RR for its entire (current) length. If they want to extend it to the Weirs, then pay the $$$ during construction to co-exist with the RR.

IMHO, It is not in the State/Public best interest to kill a tax paying existing business that is by all accounts doing well even during Covid. Sets a dangerous precedent.

I won't get into the homeless encampments that exist just off the WOW trail now! Just what the Weirs needs.... homeless encampments! Especially along all that very expensive Paugus Bay property!

This is all moot anyway..... pretty sure the RR has a 10yr option to renew coming up and then there will be the STB to deal with.

Woodsy
__________________
The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.
Woodsy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Woodsy For This Useful Post:
Biggd (01-21-2021), Descant (01-21-2021)
Old 01-21-2021, 04:35 PM   #68
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hooksett, NH & Bear Island, NH
Posts: 2,594
Thanks: 240
Thanked 1,763 Times in 731 Posts
Default

Rip up the rails and turn that trail into an OHRV trail do it all the way up through Franconia Notch and hook it into the Presidential Rec Trail on the back side of Twin Mtn.

That would be awesome! Especially if there was plenty of dual use roads for OHRV use along the way for gas and food stops.

Perfect!
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2021, 05:04 PM   #69
Trail Goer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: New Durham
Posts: 127
Thanks: 99
Thanked 81 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbolty View Post
The argument in favor of keeping the rails seems to boil down to "it's always been there and thus it shall ever be"
That's not true at all, the state has converted many railroad lines to trails, one was just recently (or is in the process of being), converted to a trail from Littleton to Whitefield. The difference between that line and this line is very clear though. The line in Littleton had no online shippers, the operator leasing the line gave up its common carrier rights (approved by the STB) and with no operators and shippers showing interest, the state petitioned and was approved by the STB to abandon the line. With two operators leasing the line along Winnipesaukee, there's not much the state can do, even if they wanted to close the line.
Trail Goer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Trail Goer For This Useful Post:
Biggd (01-21-2021)
Old 01-21-2021, 05:37 PM   #70
Trail Goer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: New Durham
Posts: 127
Thanks: 99
Thanked 81 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mishman View Post
Hesitant to wade into these shark infested waters but how many of these commenters have been on a well maintained bicycle trail in a tourism hot spot like our lake?
I admit that I don't know the number of train riders but I would wager many, many times more people (locals and tourists) would use the trail for hiking and cycling than train riders. These bike trails generate lots of tourism dollars as people want healthy forms of recreation. You can see it all around the country.
I have ridden bike trails in FL, on the west coast and principally in New England. Almost without exception, businesses along rail trails love the business these trails generates. Cyclists and walkers stop for refreshments, meals, a beer (or two) and come back again and again. Cycling is easy on the joints and I know many cyclists in their 70s who easily do 20 miles daily (especially along rail trails with their modest grade changes).
I would like to see trail accommodate more people than the limited numbers of train riders - and I have nothing against trains. It is simply a matter of highest and best use of this corridor. Hands down it is for people powered transport.
Well, I guess there is blood in the water now
In 2019 two different reports were release for 2 different studies done.
One clearly omitted info to try and sell the trail as the better option but the numbers never added up, the other study painted a clearer picture. At first they tried to brush the 2nd study under the rug, until every body and their mother, showed up to the city council meeting in November 2019. At that time the report for the other study was brought to the city counsels attention and the new mayor to be, asked for some time to look over that report. A couple of months later and going off off both reports, the city counsel reversed direction and decided to stop pushing the issue. Instead a Blue Ribbon Committee was formed, made of individuals from the city, the wow trail, SD & LB and one or both railroads. Nobody is denying the WOW Trail to build phase 3 and 4 but what has been denied is the option to remove the railroad tracks. Lake phase 1 and 2, if they want phase 3 and 4, it will have to be done in the same manner. It is the responsibility of that Blue Ribbon Committee, to figure out how is done. Unfortunately there has been little (if any) updates since early 2020.
Trail Goer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Trail Goer For This Useful Post:
stingray (01-21-2021)
Old 01-21-2021, 06:01 PM   #71
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 2,627
Thanks: 768
Thanked 969 Times in 605 Posts
Default My front yard?

Am I correct that many lakeside camp owners own land on both sides of the tracks? It's one thing to have a train roll through on a predictable schedule, no stops. It's quite another to have hikers and bikers rolling/strolling though my front yard.
Descant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2021, 11:05 AM   #72
lagoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 53
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mishman View Post
Hesitant to wade into these shark infested waters but how many of these commenters have been on a well maintained bicycle trail in a tourism hot spot like our lake?
I admit that I don't know the number of train riders but I would wager many, many times more people (locals and tourists) would use the trail for hiking and cycling than train riders. These bike trails generate lots of tourism dollars as people want healthy forms of recreation. You can see it all around the country.
I have ridden bike trails in FL, on the west coast and principally in New England. Almost without exception, businesses along rail trails love the business these trails generates. Cyclists and walkers stop for refreshments, meals, a beer (or two) and come back again and again. Cycling is easy on the joints and I know many cyclists in their 70s who easily do 20 miles daily (especially along rail trails with their modest grade changes).
I would like to see trail accommodate more people than the limited numbers of train riders - and I have nothing against trains. It is simply a matter of highest and best use of this corridor. Hands down it is for people powered transport.
Well, I guess there is blood in the water now
I happen to agree that this needs to be looked into. I like the train but it's use is so infrequent as to be non existent. If this was used as a general use trail I know it would find a large increase in use with a social benefit in terms of health and connectivity to others in the community. It also could correspond with the other rail trails in the lakes area to create a substantial hiking, biking system for the lakes area not unlike the mountain trails that exist throughout New Hampshire.
lagoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2021, 11:08 AM   #73
lagoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 53
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descant View Post
Am I correct that many lakeside camp owners own land on both sides of the tracks? It's one thing to have a train roll through on a predictable schedule, no stops. It's quite another to have hikers and bikers rolling/strolling though my front yard.
Technically it is not your front yard. The right of way exists and there is no way to change that now. I would rather have the walkers, runners and bikers than a loud fuming train, but that is just me.
lagoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2021, 01:02 PM   #74
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 2,627
Thanks: 768
Thanked 969 Times in 605 Posts
Default real question

Quote:
Originally Posted by lagoon View Post
Technically it is not your front yard. The right of way exists and there is no way to change that now. I would rather have the walkers, runners and bikers than a loud fuming train, but that is just me.
Not thew info I was looking for. The question is/was "Do people actually own both sides of the right of way?" Technically, to coin a phrase, the land between my house and the right of way is my yard, same as if I abutted a street.
Descant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2021, 01:16 PM   #75
lagoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 53
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descant View Post
Not thew info I was looking for. The question is/was "Do people actually own both sides of the right of way?" Technically, to coin a phrase, the land between my house and the right of way is my yard, same as if I abutted a street.
Most railways in New Hampshire actually have a 66' wide right of way. If someone has walked that path at all it becomes a right of way and can't be extinguished. Historically most if not all railroad beds have been used by the public to walk as they are quite flat and direct means of travel. In answer to your question the property may be owned by an adjacent property owner but that in no way affects it as a right of way.

Last edited by lagoon; 02-02-2021 at 09:42 PM.
lagoon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to lagoon For This Useful Post:
subaruliving (01-24-2021)
Old 01-24-2021, 10:44 PM   #76
Trail Goer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: New Durham
Posts: 127
Thanks: 99
Thanked 81 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lagoon View Post
I happen to agree that this needs to be looked into. I like the train but it's use is so infrequent as to be non existent.
Look into what?
Trail Goer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2021, 09:43 PM   #77
lagoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 53
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Look into using the railroad as a multiple use trail.
lagoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2021, 05:15 PM   #78
Trail Goer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: New Durham
Posts: 127
Thanks: 99
Thanked 81 Times in 46 Posts
Default

That's already been done and a decision was rendered.
Trail Goer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Trail Goer For This Useful Post:
jetskier (02-04-2021)
Old 02-05-2021, 09:50 AM   #79
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,305
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 233
Thanked 705 Times in 522 Posts
Default

Well, it looks like the Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad is bringing either two-person or four-person pedal carts with four railroad wheels ..... Rail Bike Adventures .... www.hoborr.com/rail-bike-adventures/ in the spring of this year, 2021.

That will turn the rails into a self-propelled ride with pedal carts which would be a new use for something like $50 or $95, price/cart not by rider .... www.essexsteamtrain.com/experience/rail-bike/.

It should be nice sight to see people coming down the tracks, pedaling it forward, and moving it down along the Weirs Beach boardwalk! Here they come ....... there they go ...... just, look at that ...... four people power ...... all pedaling it forward! Wonder if it will have a bell to ring, to ring, to ring ..... ding-ding-ding ..... ring that bell! .....
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2021, 10:26 AM   #80
exlakesregioner
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 43
Thanks: 2
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Looks like it is going to be used from the station in Laconia going to Winnisquam, not using the tracks from Meredith to Lakeport.
exlakesregioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2021, 11:24 AM   #81
XCR-700
Senior Member
 
XCR-700's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Andover, MA
Posts: 715
Thanks: 371
Thanked 239 Times in 134 Posts
Question

Sorry reading through this confusing thread, I cant tell whats going on but I can only hope there is no impact to the Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad between Lakeport and Meredith.

Its as iconic as the Mt Washington.

Converting that to a walking or bike trail or some other usage would be a horrific travesty.

I cant imagine a Weirs Beach without the Boardwalk, the Mt Washington, the arcades, and the Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad. I bring visitors to Weirs specifically for these features.

The state is covered in hundreds of miles of bike and walking trails and we can argue endlessly about the questionable amount of use they actually get overall, but the visual imagery value that the Boardwalk, the Mt Washington, the arcades, and the Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad bring to the Weirs is in incalculable.

I hope I am misinterpreting what appears is being advocated by some here.
XCR-700 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to XCR-700 For This Useful Post:
Trail Goer (02-07-2021)
Old 02-07-2021, 09:30 AM   #82
Trail Goer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: New Durham
Posts: 127
Thanks: 99
Thanked 81 Times in 46 Posts
Default

XCR-700 - the trains and tracks are not being removed. The former mayor of Laconia, the city council and the board of directors for the WOW Trail, pushed real hard to try and make that happen. After about 3 to 4 years of tension build up, things were brought to the forefront at a jampacked Laconia City Council meeting in November 2019. At that meeting, a report from a 2nd study (done at the same time as the WOW Trail's study), was presented to the city council. The 2nd report painted a much different picture than the one paid for by the city and WOW Tail. After going over both reports the city council, changed their tune rather quickly. The Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad, has a much larger economic impact to the area, than what they were aware of or what they wanted to believe in. Case in point the econmic loss of the railroad, would be greater than that of what the rail-trail could generate.
Trail Goer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Trail Goer For This Useful Post:
Biggd (02-07-2021), Descant (02-12-2021), HAMPTONS (02-17-2021), map (02-14-2021), Top-Water (02-07-2021), XCR-700 (02-12-2021)
Old 02-12-2021, 08:58 AM   #83
XCR-700
Senior Member
 
XCR-700's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Andover, MA
Posts: 715
Thanks: 371
Thanked 239 Times in 134 Posts
Thumbs up Thanks for the response and clarity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail Goer View Post
XCR-700 - the trains and tracks are not being removed. The former mayor of Laconia, the city council and the board of directors for the WOW Trail, pushed real hard to try and make that happen. After about 3 to 4 years of tension build up, things were brought to the forefront at a jampacked Laconia City Council meeting in November 2019. At that meeting, a report from a 2nd study (done at the same time as the WOW Trail's study), was presented to the city council. The 2nd report painted a much different picture than the one paid for by the city and WOW Tail. After going over both reports the city council, changed their tune rather quickly. The Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad, has a much larger economic impact to the area, than what they were aware of or what they wanted to believe in. Case in point the econmic loss of the railroad, would be greater than that of what the rail-trail could generate.
Many Thanks for that very clear untangling of this thread.

Personally I am happy with this outcome, but I do understand why some would desire the change. These matters are always difficult and someone is always unhappy with the outcome. In a perfect world someone would have built both a train track and a seperate walking path, but cost of labor and land being always a factor, we usually dont get everything we want,,,

ATB
XCR-700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 01:23 PM   #84
4 for Boating
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Thanks: 1
Thanked 18 Times in 11 Posts
Default Future

To me, the train is iconic and a regional treasure.

I think preserving it/not forcing it out of exsitance is the way to go even with limited seasonal service - however I think the question is if the Railroad goes out of business or ceases operations for any reason - what happens then to the path if no trains use it?

I'm not sure having it sit vacant thus prohibiting public sightseeing of the lake that the Train allowed is a ideal idea either.
4 for Boating is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 4 for Boating For This Useful Post:
Biggd (02-12-2021)
Old 02-16-2021, 09:05 AM   #85
Trail Goer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: New Durham
Posts: 127
Thanks: 99
Thanked 81 Times in 46 Posts
Default

If the railroad goes out of business or ceases operations, then the state would be obligated to try and find another operator. If that fails and there's no interest in the railroad line, then the state can either leave it as is or can file a petition with Surface Transportation Board to abandon it but there must be at least 2 years in between the last train and the petition. Once abandoned the state could still leave it as is or remove the rail and build a rail trail.

Last edited by Trail Goer; 02-16-2021 at 09:52 AM.
Trail Goer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2021, 03:20 PM   #86
lagoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 53
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Well, it looks like the Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad is bringing either two-person or four-person pedal carts with four railroad wheels ..... Rail Bike Adventures .... www.hoborr.com/rail-bike-adventures/ in the spring of this year, 2021.

That will turn the rails into a self-propelled ride with pedal carts which would be a new use for something like $50 or $95, price/cart not by rider .... www.essexsteamtrain.com/experience/rail-bike/.

It should be nice sight to see people coming down the tracks, pedaling it forward, and moving it down along the Weirs Beach boardwalk! Here they come ....... there they go ...... just, look at that ...... four people power ...... all pedaling it forward! Wonder if it will have a bell to ring, to ring, to ring ..... ding-ding-ding ..... ring that bell! .....
That will be interesting when someone gets run into by one of those self propelled rides. Lawsuits galore. I do understand the pure argument here for the railroad and its income which you can't compare to the free use of a walking, hiking, bike trail. Neither can you compare the health benefits of riding the rail to exercise and good general health while enjoying the lake views.
lagoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2021, 03:53 PM   #87
upthesaukee
Senior Member
 
upthesaukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 5,221
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 1,976
Thanked 1,707 Times in 949 Posts
Default Maybe not a problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by lagoon View Post
That will be interesting when someone gets run into by one of those self propelled rides. Lawsuits galore. I do understand the pure argument here for the railroad and its income which you can't compare to the free use of a walking, hiking, bike trail. Neither can you compare the health benefits of riding the rail to exercise and good general health while enjoying the lake views.
Maybe not a problem. There is an existing ride that operates from Sewall Falls Rd, next to the Merrimack Sewall Falls bridge in Concord. They go in both directions from the start point. There is an employee in the lead car and an employee in the rear unit.

They go so far, stop and turn the units around and head back to the start point. They then head out the other way to a point, turn around and back to the start point. At any crossing they stop and cross with crossing guards deployed. It seems like a very safe operation. We're hope to get out on it this summer with another couple.

Dave
__________________
I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!
upthesaukee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2021, 09:28 AM   #88
Woodsy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Weirs Beach
Posts: 1,730
Thanks: 57
Thanked 776 Times in 336 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lagoon View Post
That will be interesting when someone gets run into by one of those self propelled rides. Lawsuits galore. I do understand the pure argument here for the railroad and its income which you can't compare to the free use of a walking, hiking, bike trail. Neither can you compare the health benefits of riding the rail to exercise and good general health while enjoying the lake views.
You can get hurt walking the existing WOW trail....

Those railbike operations are very popular all over the country, they make $$, pay taxes and don't require the expense of tearing up the rails.

If the WOW trail wants to extend to Weirs, they need to raise the $$$ and co-exist with the RR.

Woodsy
__________________
The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.
Woodsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2021, 12:11 PM   #89
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 1,193
Thanks: 677
Thanked 531 Times in 316 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
Those railbike operations are very popular all over the country,

Woodsy
I don't doubt there are others, but I do doubt they are popular. Almost by definition, these are very low volume operations. Keep in mind that every car needs space between it and other cars on a single track, and no car can go faster than the car in front of it. This last piece is especially important--if there are 10 cars then the tenth car must be slower than the ninth, which must be slower than the eighth, which must be slower than the seventh...Otherwise it's a frustrating traffic jam. This is very different than bikes or walkers who can pass each other
FlyingScot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2021, 03:33 PM   #90
upthesaukee
Senior Member
 
upthesaukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 5,221
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 1,976
Thanked 1,707 Times in 949 Posts
Default Jmo

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
I don't doubt there are others, but I do doubt they are popular. Almost by definition, these are very low volume operations. Keep in mind that every car needs space between it and other cars on a single track, and no car can go faster than the car in front of it. This last piece is especially important--if there are 10 cars then the tenth car must be slower than the ninth, which must be slower than the eighth, which must be slower than the seventh...Otherwise it's a frustrating traffic jam. This is very different than bikes or walkers who can pass each other
JMO, but we play quite a bit of golf at Beaver Meadow and go by the trail head going to and from the course. Most days we go by, if the open flag is out, which it usually is, the parking is usually full. The ride is around 6.5 miles and I think it is about 1.5 hrs total time. It is a little expensive, just under $150 for a 4 person car. Compare it to golf, it's about the same as green fees on a special. It runs along the Merrimack.

One along the WOW trail would have similar views and a pretty good customer base. With the large # of tourists, I think it it would be successful. And I would give it a go.

Dave
__________________
I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!
upthesaukee is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to upthesaukee For This Useful Post:
FlyingScot (02-18-2021)
Old 02-19-2021, 10:00 AM   #91
Trail Goer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: New Durham
Posts: 127
Thanks: 99
Thanked 81 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
I don't doubt there are others, but I do doubt they are popular. Almost by definition, these are very low volume operations. Keep in mind that every car needs space between it and other cars on a single track, and no car can go faster than the car in front of it. This last piece is especially important--if there are 10 cars then the tenth car must be slower than the ninth, which must be slower than the eighth, which must be slower than the seventh...Otherwise it's a frustrating traffic jam. This is very different than bikes or walkers who can pass each other
They are becoming popular, that is why they are starting to spring up all over the place.
Trail Goer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2021, 10:52 AM   #92
AC2717
Senior Member
 
AC2717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Maynard, MA & Paugus Bay
Posts: 2,327
Thanks: 665
Thanked 296 Times in 221 Posts
Default

there is one in RI, that starts in Middletown/Portsmouth area and goes into Newport Right along the Newport Sound. 2 and 4 person sit on rail cars like that look like bikes/4 person bikes
__________________
Capt. of the "No Worries"
AC2717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2021, 11:41 AM   #93
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,279
Thanks: 566
Thanked 1,069 Times in 735 Posts
Default

There is a group in Wolfeboro I think it is called Rails and Trails and they ride little cars on the tracks. I think they stand up more though than the ones pictured here. i have seen them but just can't remember.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2021, 11:43 AM   #94
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 1,193
Thanks: 677
Thanked 531 Times in 316 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail Goer View Post
They are becoming popular, that is why they are starting to spring up all over the place.
Just to be clear--I meant on a number of users/day basis, and I'm not saying they would not be fun. It's that the capacity of these cars has to be WAY less than a trail for bikes, walking, etc. This is a similar point to that raised bu others about trains vs bikes/walking. If our goal is number of happy people per day, the tracks cannot compete with a path.
FlyingScot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2021, 01:44 PM   #95
mcdude
Senior Member
 
mcdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rock Haven Lake - West Newfield, ME
Posts: 5,207
Thanks: 334
Thanked 861 Times in 421 Posts
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by tis View Post
There is a group in Wolfeboro I think it is called Rails and Trails and they ride little cars on the tracks. I think they stand up more though than the ones pictured here. i have seen them but just can't remember.

It's the Cotton Valley Rail Trail Club http://www.cottonvalley.org/index.php
They are headquartered at the Fernald Station (near Lake Wentworth) and have an open house every year (maybe in the Spring?) if you want to hitch a ride
Attached Images
 
__________________

mcdude is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to mcdude For This Useful Post:
TheTimeTraveler (02-20-2021), tis (02-19-2021), upthesaukee (02-19-2021), XCR-700 (02-20-2021)
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 1.41991 seconds