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Old 10-21-2021, 09:20 AM   #1
SailinAway
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Default Current Covid situation in New Hampshire

Based on the state data at https://www.covid19.nh.gov/dashboard/overview

In June 2021 there was a 7-day average of 20 new cases per day. Right now the 7-day average is 546 new cases per day---27 times more than in June! As I recall, there were about 350 active cases in June. Today there are 4,517 active cases.

We are clearly in an intense fourth wave that is increasing dramatically each week. At the height of the 2020 pandemic (May), there were 97 new cases per day in New Hampshire. Thus the current wave is about 6 times worse than the worst part of 2020. The increase is not all due to being indoors in the colder season---the uptick was very steep in July and August.

New Hampshire's Covid situation is currently worse than the former hotspots of Florida, Texas, and California.

Some observations that account for New Hampshire's poor performance in reducing infections:

(1) The vaccination rate is the lowest in New England and below the national average.

(2) Almost no one is wearing a mask in stores here in the Lakes Region.

(3) The NH Executive Council turned down $27 million in federal aid to support vaccination efforts.

(4) People appear convinced that the pandemic is over. They are going about their lives as before the pandemic, indicating a lack of education about where the pandemic really stands in New Hampshire.

Those are the facts. We are clearly headed into a 3rd year of the pandemic. There aren't many signs that people care about that fact, meaning they don't care about dying or people close to them dying, time lost from work if they get sick, or the huge economic impacts of the pandemic. They just don't care enough to use the means easily available to them to stop the pandemic---means that cost very little time or money and that impose no real hardship on people.

This is a sad situation that predicts a very bad outcome for the other huge existential problems we face, especially the climate crisis. In a word, not enough of the human race cares enough to take action to preserve our own species, as seen right here in New Hampshire.
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Old 10-21-2021, 11:22 AM   #2
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With that all said, the current housing market should yield you a nice profit.


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Old 10-21-2021, 02:20 PM   #3
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I appreciate SailinAway's concern and not letting our guard down.

But I don't think it's quite as bad as you say. Certainly could be better though.

1) It looks like NH might be peaking. See the chart below. We'll probably know better in a few weeks. COVID is known to have 2 month cycle. NH just might be lagging in that cycle. Note that UK is on the way up AGAIN. NH might get that wave come January or February. So even if we are peaking it doesn't mean it's the final wave.

2) Even though NH is not high on vaccinated scale across all ages. They are extremely high (98% have at least one dose that are over 65 years old !!). See the link below.

3) I have seen plenty of places in NH still using masks. Probably less than MA but still a significant chunk.

4) Be careful looking at just new cases. That has been a very misleading indicator. because if testing ramps up (say schools started mandatory testing). Detected cases goes up even if nothing changed. Look at death rates per capita to really know how we are doing. NH is still pretty low on that but still worse than July. Death rates also lag by 1-2 months.

Lot of data at this link. Interesting way up north is a problem. Most of the Lakes Region looks pretty good.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...vid-cases.html
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Old 10-21-2021, 05:43 PM   #4
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As a younger demographic becomes the majority of active cases, it is probably more determinant to look at hospitalizations rather than deaths.

Lost time has been an ongoing issue with most business, but the numbers aren't tracked.
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Old 10-21-2021, 08:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SailinAway View Post
Based on the state data at https://www.covid19.nh.gov/dashboard/overview

In June 2021 there was a 7-day average of 20 new cases per day. Right now the 7-day average is 546 new cases per day---27 times more than in June! As I recall, there were about 350 active cases in June. Today there are 4,517 active cases.

We are clearly in an intense fourth wave that is increasing dramatically each week. At the height of the 2020 pandemic (May), there were 97 new cases per day in New Hampshire. Thus the current wave is about 6 times worse than the worst part of 2020. The increase is not all due to being indoors in the colder season---the uptick was very steep in July and August.

New Hampshire's Covid situation is currently worse than the former hotspots of Florida, Texas, and California.

Some observations that account for New Hampshire's poor performance in reducing infections:

(1) The vaccination rate is the lowest in New England and below the national average.

(2) Almost no one is wearing a mask in stores here in the Lakes Region.

(3) The NH Executive Council turned down $27 million in federal aid to support vaccination efforts.

(4) People appear convinced that the pandemic is over. They are going about their lives as before the pandemic, indicating a lack of education about where the pandemic really stands in New Hampshire.

Those are the facts. We are clearly headed into a 3rd year of the pandemic. There aren't many signs that people care about that fact, meaning they don't care about dying or people close to them dying, time lost from work if they get sick, or the huge economic impacts of the pandemic. They just don't care enough to use the means easily available to them to stop the pandemic---means that cost very little time or money and that impose no real hardship on people.

This is a sad situation that predicts a very bad outcome for the other huge existential problems we face, especially the climate crisis. In a word, not enough of the human race cares enough to take action to preserve our own species, as seen right here in New Hampshire.
A perfect example of how numbers can be used to make 2 completely different arguments.

When you look at the data here: https://www.google.com/search?q=nh+c...client=gws-wiz

You will see the 7 day death average in NH is currently 4, telling me that NH is one of the safest places to be in the country!

Its right in line with where NH was in May 2020 (a date referenced from above) and leaves me with both a great sense of comfort and safety, but also causes me concern and to question why there is so much fear mongering that is destroying our country.

This obsession about infection rate is clearly fueled by the media and politicians for god only knows what reason, but with average citizens fanning the flames of fear one can only wonder why. Is it fear, maybe. I suspect its something deeper, an odd human compulsion to need a crisis to worry about.

Time and time again we hear the manipulated information x dead from COVID or COVID complications, and a perfect example is Colin Powell. Announced as died for complications of COVID, not died of complications of terminal cancer as would have been the case 2 years ago. Never ever in the past did you hear of a terminal cancer patient dying from complications of a head cold or the flu, it was always from cancer, then along comes COVID and murder/suicide's, car accidents victims, cancer patients, slip and fall deaths and everything else are listed as COVID deaths if they tested positive for COVID in the autopsy.

So is NH unsafe and in a COVID death spiral, well not from what I can see.

I walk through any space in the state and without any substantially greater fear of death than I had 5 years ago, 10 years ago, ever.

Live Free and leave your worries for actual high risk concerns.

At last check the national average risk of death from COVID was 1 in 500, almost exactly the same as hang gliding!

Not exactly something to cause me to stop living, or to live in fear from.

I'm sure another person can take the same data and make a completely different case, maybe this all aligns with an astrological event and we simply need to wait until Saturn goes Station Retrograde in Aquarius at Sat Jun 04 2022 17:47.

Yup then this will be over,,,
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Old 10-21-2021, 09:22 PM   #6
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Time and time again we hear the manipulated information x dead from COVID or COVID complications, and a perfect example is Colin Powell. Announced as died for complications of COVID, not died of complications of terminal cancer as would have been the case 2 years ago. Never ever in the past did you hear of a terminal cancer patient dying from complications of a head cold or the flu, it was always from cancer, then along comes COVID and murder/suicide's, car accidents victims, cancer patients, slip and fall deaths and everything else are listed as COVID deaths if they tested positive for COVID in the autopsy.
A sliver of truth with a large slice of baloney. Multiple Myeloma is a long slow process, many live with it for decades. Powell was immunocompromised by the cancer, but you have no basis other than paranoia to assert cancer killed him when an autopsy says otherwise. And of course, this slip and fall stuff has been completely debunked elsewhere
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Old 10-21-2021, 10:39 PM   #7
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A sliver of truth with a large slice of baloney. Multiple Myeloma is a long slow process, many live with it for decades. Powell was immunocompromised by the cancer, but you have no basis other than paranoia to assert cancer killed him when an autopsy says otherwise. And of course, this slip and fall stuff has been completely debunked elsewhere
The weird part is he is the one that keeps focusing on death, as if that is the only negative consequence to this whole event.
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Old 10-21-2021, 11:18 PM   #8
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Default COVID DATA - Lies and Manipulation or Jts 2 sides of a coin,,,

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A perfect example of how numbers can be used to make 2 completely different arguments.

When you look at the data here: https://www.google.com/search?q=nh+c...client=gws-wiz

You will see the 7 day death average in NH is currently 4, telling me that NH is one of the safest places to be in the country!

Its right in line with where NH was in May 2020 (a date referenced from above) and leaves me with both a great sense of comfort and safety, but also causes me concern and to question why there is so much fear mongering that is destroying our country.

This obsession about infection rate is clearly fueled by the media and politicians for god only knows what reason, but with average citizens fanning the flames of fear one can only wonder why. Is it fear, maybe. I suspect its something deeper, an odd human compulsion to need a crisis to worry about.

Time and time again we hear the manipulated information x dead from COVID or COVID complications, and a perfect example is Colin Powell. Announced as died for complications of COVID, not died of complications of terminal cancer as would have been the case 2 years ago. Never ever in the past did you hear of a terminal cancer patient dying from complications of a head cold or the flu, it was always from cancer, then along comes COVID and murder/suicide's, car accidents victims, cancer patients, slip and fall deaths and everything else are listed as COVID deaths if they tested positive for COVID in the autopsy.

So is NH unsafe and in a COVID death spiral, well not from what I can see.

I walk through any space in the state and without any substantially greater fear of death than I had 5 years ago, 10 years ago, ever.

Live Free and leave your worries for actual high risk concerns.

At last check the national average risk of death from COVID was 1 in 500, almost exactly the same as hang gliding!

Not exactly something to cause me to stop living, or to live in fear from.

I'm sure another person can take the same data and make a completely different case, maybe this all aligns with an astrological event and we simply need to wait until Saturn goes Station Retrograde in Aquarius at Sat Jun 04 2022 17:47.

Yup then this will be over,,,
Just some background

Coroner: State included a murder-suicide in Grand’s COVID deaths:

https://www.skyhinews.com/news/coron...-covid-deaths/



Bob Woodward Says Colin Powell Opened Up About Cancer Diagnosis Prior to Death

"In a July 12 phone interview — recorded by Woodward, 68, for his book, Peril and obtained by CNN — Powell told the veteran journalist that he had been battling multiple myeloma for almost two years. Further, Powell told Woodward he also had Parkinson's."

https://people.com/politics/colin-po...reer-and-life/



The median overall survival of an elderly (≥80 years) cohort of myeloma patients was 22 months, with an early mortality rate (at 2 months) of 14%



confusion continues over whether people die of COVID-19 or with COVID-19.

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/h...-s-complicated

Then clearly there all the media publications saying the COVID deaths are being under-reported.

So as stated previously, the same numbers can be used to tell 2 completely different stories and are often used exactly. Is the tank half full and you are ok, or is it half empty and you better start planning for a refill before you run out.

For me the only COVID number of significant interest is the 7 day death average. Thats how I gauge safety. From my seat, getting colds and flu and viruses are all part of existing, and no vaccine or practice can 100% protect you from that.

The rest is just living, so live with it, not in fear of it.

So use common sense, and worry about something that is a legitimate and serious risk to your life. Like undue stress over COVID. Thats probably more harmful to our country as a whole than the virus, but there is no study or measurement of how much people are getting stressed out over all this.

Others opinions will vary, so be it.
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Old 10-22-2021, 12:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XCR-700 View Post
Just some background

Coroner: State included a murder-suicide in Grand’s COVID deaths:

https://www.skyhinews.com/news/coron...-covid-deaths/



Bob Woodward Says Colin Powell Opened Up About Cancer Diagnosis Prior to Death

"In a July 12 phone interview — recorded by Woodward, 68, for his book, Peril and obtained by CNN — Powell told the veteran journalist that he had been battling multiple myeloma for almost two years. Further, Powell told Woodward he also had Parkinson's."

https://people.com/politics/colin-po...reer-and-life/



The median overall survival of an elderly (≥80 years) cohort of myeloma patients was 22 months, with an early mortality rate (at 2 months) of 14%



confusion continues over whether people die of COVID-19 or with COVID-19.

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/h...-s-complicated

Then clearly there all the media publications saying the COVID deaths are being under-reported.

So as stated previously, the same numbers can be used to tell 2 completely different stories and are often used exactly. Is the tank half full and you are ok, or is it half empty and you better start planning for a refill before you run out.

For me the only COVID number of significant interest is the 7 day death average. Thats how I gauge safety. From my seat, getting colds and flu and viruses are all part of existing, and no vaccine or practice can 100% protect you from that.

The rest is just living, so live with it, not in fear of it.

So use common sense, and worry about something that is a legitimate and serious risk to your life. Like undue stress over COVID. Thats probably more harmful to our country as a whole than the virus, but there is no study or measurement of how much people are getting stressed out over all this.

Others opinions will vary, so be it.
We are all dying from the moment we are born. So you could argue COVID has not killed anyone. Collin was on the fast track to his death and COVID put him on the express train. It’s that simple.

It’s why COVID hits elderly hard. You can have a decent quality of life 65 and up. But even a flu or fall can kill you. COVID is 10x worse than the flu. And that’s a big difference. It’s extremely contagious and that’s why it’s dangerous.

What they also don’t track is how many people that have survived COVID and what their post COVID quality of life is. I know a few people that got it and none of them recovered like the flu.

It is far more likely deaths due to COVID are under counted than over counter.
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Old 10-22-2021, 03:26 AM   #10
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COVID is 10x worse than the flu.

What they also don’t track is how many people that have survived COVID and what their post COVID quality of life is. I know a few people that got it and none of them recovered like the flu.
10x worse even after taking substantial steps to reduce its impacts. What would that 700k+ body count be if we never masked/quarantined/shut down/vaccinated?

Your second point is important, too: the message has been death, but I've had a lot of students—read: young people who "aren't affected"—who have struggled for weeks with lethargy, advanced cold symptoms, eating/smelling/tasting issues, etc.

While I am at the point where I think we need to move forward—we know how to personally minimize our risks while also having widespread vaccination access—it's silly to minimize the virus and its impacts.

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Old 10-22-2021, 07:12 AM   #11
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RE: "COVID is 10x worse than the flu"

100% agreed, but only for for some people, and they are very small group of the population.

And for those who survive and continue to suffer problems, they (including myself) are very few in number. After several discussions with my primary, I have been repeatedly told that "long haul COVID" is not well studied, there are no official guidelines or treatment, and few programs to study this.

As for the overwhelming percent of COVID infected, most dont even know they have/had it and only knew because they were tested.

So while some have died (.2% of our population, accepting/using the official numbers) the cold and hard fact is that this is not the apocalypse they said it would be, and with current treatments and knowledge, there really is no justification for keeping the pandemic machine running and any mandates in place.

We are simply throwing untold tax payer dollars away accomplishing almost nothing by keeping the pandemic machine in the on mode.

Well except for lining some peoples pockets and giving the media and politicians something to broadcast.

On the negative side, they are still crushing small businesses with the restrictions, and promoting unfounded fear mongering such as we continue to see here on this forum.

This is now mostly a social matter (or more correctly a social media matter), not a medical crises.

Those of you who wish to continue living in fear are certainly able to do so, as there are countless mechanisms to support you. Its like the backyard fallout shelter madness of the 1950's. But the fear mongering should stop and the country move on and back to some sense of restored normal.

If we can fill sports stadiums with 10's of thousands of people, fly them across the country in airplanes, and have our most prominent political officials all interacting without any social distancing and without masks, I think this matter is mostly done and no further discussion needed by the masses.

ATB to those of you who exercise common sense in this matter.

My sincere and heartfelt sorrow for those of you who still live in fear and cannot find a way to move forward. I hope you folks can find some sense of relief from what the media and politicians continue to subject you to.

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Old 10-22-2021, 04:31 PM   #12
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And for those who survive and continue to suffer problems, they (including myself) are very few in number. After several discussions with my primary, I have been repeatedly told that "long haul COVID" is not well studied, there are no official guidelines or treatment, and few programs to study this.

So while some have died (.2% of our population, accepting/using the official numbers) the cold and hard fact is that this is not the apocalypse they said it would be, and with current treatments and knowledge, there really is no justification for keeping the pandemic machine running and any mandates in place.
So although you have long haul covid, you have still written more than the rest of us (combined?) about covid, and all of it telling us not to worry. I hope you feel better, and that you share your experiences/symptoms so the rest of us can understand.

700,000 dead in the US is apocalyptic, as least by modern standards. It's way worse than predicted a year and a half ago. Even worse than predicted a few months ago
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Old 10-22-2021, 04:57 PM   #13
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XCR is very sensical.


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Old 10-22-2021, 05:09 PM   #14
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So although you have long haul covid, you have still written more than the rest of us (combined?) about covid, and all of it telling us not to worry. I hope you feel better, and that you share your experiences/symptoms so the rest of us can understand.

700,000 dead in the US is apocalyptic, as least by modern standards. It's way worse than predicted a year and a half ago. Even worse than predicted a few months ago
Apocalyptic? Really???


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Old 10-22-2021, 06:02 PM   #15
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Clearly there is a bottomless pit here for fear mongering,,,

Seems to me we were told countless times 2 million would be dead by summer 2020 if drastic measures were not taken, that might have been apocalyptic in less than 6 months. But .2% of the population dying not of COVID, but with COVID almost 2 years in, nope not quite an apocalypse to me.

Some of the nonsense might be forgivable because at the time we didnt know what we were dealing with, but today, this madness is just filling some strange desire or fetish people have for a crisis.

As for sharing my experience, probably what saved me was not going to the hospital, at the time I had COVID they would have put me on a ventilator and I doubt I would have survived. Too many mistakes were made early on, things are much better now and death rates clearly not warranting the inexcusable mandates going on.

Single most important thing to remember about COVID, most people have almost no symptoms and no problems. And the second most important thing to remember, if you do get it and have problems, they now have a clue about how to treat you.

Can you die from COVID, absolutely. Can you get really messed up from COVID absolutely. Should you live in fear of COVID, ABSOLUTELY NOT. As a survivor that is THE message I spread, and I had it bad. and with my list of previous health problems, if I survived, it can be done!

Latest information says 1 in 2 will get cancer, 1 in 3 will get shingles, 1 in 500 will die "WITH" COVID.

Risk of reasonable healthy people dying from COVID, really low. But every one is at risk of dying from something EVERY day!

Live life, and ENJOY. But dont live in fear of COVID says the survivor.

ATB
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Old 10-22-2021, 06:33 PM   #16
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Shingles has a vaccine for those of a certain age; and I have no clue what the mortality rate for it is. But I expect it to be very rare to create the need for hospitalization or lost time from work in the younger set.

And it isn't the death, it is the lost time.
Businesses are dealing heavily with lost time issues.

If a mandate does become regulation, what the work around is may be even less palatable... just a matter of waiting to see.
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Old 10-22-2021, 08:14 PM   #17
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Shingles has a vaccine for those of a certain age; and I have no clue what the mortality rate for it is. But I expect it to be very rare to create the need for hospitalization or lost time from work in the younger set.

And it isn't the death, it is the lost time.
Businesses are dealing heavily with lost time issues.

If a mandate does become regulation, what the work around is may be even less palatable... just a matter of waiting to see.
I couldn't wait to get my Shingles vaccine. Several friends got Shingles and it was nasty. Took a long time to recover too, like a year.
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Old 10-22-2021, 08:59 PM   #18
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Dont live in fear of COVID says the survivor.

ATB
I'm really curious:

(1) Why does it bother you so much how other people "feel" about the pandemic such that you would write thousands of words telling them not to be afraid?

(2) "Says the survivor": What do you suppose the 5 million nonsurvivors around the world are saying, from the grave?
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Old 10-22-2021, 09:55 PM   #19
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Apocalyptic? Really???


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Yes. I wrote "apocalyptic, at least by modern standards", which is a bit of a metaphor.

We're at close to 5,000,000 dead worldwide, over 700,000 in the US. I think the last time that many people died of anything, it was WWII. Plus this cuts across all demographics, and impacts all of our social, educational, and economic systems. I was not old enough to understand Vietnam's impact, but this has had more negative impact than anything in the past 50 years. So I'm OK with calling it apocalyptic by modern standards.
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Old 10-22-2021, 11:19 PM   #20
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Interesting graphic comparing the death toll of past pandemics.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/his...ics-deadliest/
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Old 10-23-2021, 12:38 AM   #21
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Exclamation Deaths in U.S. 737,703

Fact Check = https://www.bing.com/search?q=Fact+C...ANNTA1&PC=HCTS
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Old 10-23-2021, 05:58 AM   #22
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Yes. I wrote "apocalyptic, at least by modern standards", which is a bit of a metaphor.

We're at close to 5,000,000 dead worldwide, over 700,000 in the US. I think the last time that many people died of anything, it was WWII. Plus this cuts across all demographics, and impacts all of our social, educational, and economic systems. I was not old enough to understand Vietnam's impact, but this has had more negative impact than anything in the past 50 years. So I'm OK with calling it apocalyptic by modern standards.
So would you consider cancer heart disease or diabetes apocalyptic also? And yes many many many people have died from Covid but also the numbers are extremely skewed with many many people that died with Covid but not of Covid. Also the numbers need to be compared with flu deaths because as you know those deaths have dropped precipitously


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Old 10-23-2021, 08:54 AM   #23
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Interesting that the the fact check business has become such a huge industry that for some organizations it a full time business. Thats you first tip off that misinformation in the media is horrifyingly prevalent.

What I find most interesting is that people believe the fact checkers as if they are some infallible resource or that they embody a far greater level of integrity than their fellow media hacks or the politicians.

So what exactly makes them any authority? Who certifies that they are any more honest than anyone else making money on all this?? What on earth would make you think anything they say is any more accurate than anyone else???

Thats the beauty of the interweb, anyone can become an "influencer" simply by self-presenting as having any knowledge of anything.

Facts are no longer stubborn things, they are now simply words with altered meanings for whatever purpose you wish to promote.

And the truth is something not widely known by most people about almost any matter, as information becomes constantly manipulated for whatever purpose the communicator desires.

All most people are left with is common sense to help them decipher any situation they may assess. And since the invention of the interweb, even common sense is in decline.

So believe what you want, if some feel better believing 700,000 died of COVID (as opposed to "with" COVID) then I hope it serves your purpose and fulfills your needs whatever they are.

I chose to believe COVID is a serious matter and an infection you do not want, but it is not an apocalypse and not something to live in constant fear of, and certainly does not warrant the actions and mandates being imposed.

Most of this is a manipulation to shift huge quantities of money into others pockets, and to seize power over the masses.

Your opinions will vary.
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Old 10-23-2021, 09:36 AM   #24
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Interesting that the the fact check business has become such a huge industry that for some organizations it a full time business. Thats you first tip off that misinformation in the media is horrifyingly prevalent.

What I find most interesting is that people believe the fact checkers as if they are some infallible resource or that they embody a far greater level of integrity than their fellow media hacks or the politicians.

So what exactly makes them any authority? Who certifies that they are any more honest than anyone else making money on all this?? What on earth would make you think anything they say is any more accurate than anyone else???

Thats the beauty of the interweb, anyone can become an "influencer" simply by self-presenting as having any knowledge of anything.

Facts are no longer stubborn things, they are now simply words with altered meanings for whatever purpose you wish to promote.

And the truth is something not widely known by most people about almost any matter, as information becomes constantly manipulated for whatever purpose the communicator desires.

All most people are left with is common sense to help them decipher any situation they may assess. And since the invention of the interweb, even common sense is in decline.

So believe what you want, if some feel better believing 700,000 died of COVID (as opposed to "with" COVID) then I hope it serves your purpose and fulfills your needs whatever they are.

I chose to believe COVID is a serious matter and an infection you do not want, but it is not an apocalypse and not something to live in constant fear of, and certainly does not warrant the actions and mandates being imposed.

Most of this is a manipulation to shift huge quantities of money into others pockets, and to seize power over the masses.

Your opinions will vary.

I concur.

The difficulty today is partisan media.

We cannot be there to witness events so we must rely on what we are presented.

What gets presented and how it gets presented matters.

Striving for clicks rather than a reputation of integrity is diminishing what was once a watch dog of how we are governed.
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Old 10-23-2021, 01:14 PM   #25
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If one dies from a disease/health issue “with Covid”, and Covid is a contributor to one’s death because it caused additional problems, and one may have survived if not for the additional problems brought on by Covid, is that really different than dying “from Covid”? Seems like you are really searching hard for a rationalization.


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Old 10-23-2021, 01:43 PM   #26
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If one dies from a disease/health issue “with Covid”, and Covid is a contributor to one’s death because it caused additional problems, and one may have survived if not for the additional problems brought on by Covid, is that really different than dying “from Covid”? Seems like you are really searching hard for a rationalization.


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There is a lot of “if’s” in your statement changing the narrative of the original post


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Old 10-23-2021, 01:59 PM   #27
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If one dies from a disease/health issue “with Covid”, and Covid is a contributor to one’s death because it caused additional problems, and one may have survived if not for the additional problems brought on by Covid, is that really different than dying “from Covid”? Seems like you are really searching hard for a rationalization.


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Not searching at all, and no question in my mind whatsoever.

Way too many deaths are being formally recorded as COVID deaths using a standard not previously used.

Terminal cancer patients who were end-stage and caught a cold in their last days were never in the past listed as having died from head colds. Murder - suicide victims who had the flu, were never listed in the past as having died from the flu. Someone run over by a bus was never in the past listed as dying from anything other than being run over by a bus.

But today, if during the autopsy they determine you test positive for COVID, nothing else matters, you will be recorded as a COVID death.

So in my mind it is an inexcusable tragedy and an injustice that anyone who is end-stage with terminal cancer should be listed as a COVID death. Cancer patients endure so much that in is unthinkable you would simply chalk up their death to COVID, only because they caught COVID in their last days.

Dont they at least deserve to have us say they put up a hard fought battle against cancer and fought it until they were weakend by COVID allowing the cancer to overtake them. No clearly that would not serve the current need to make COVID the most horrid medical event since the black plague. Sorry as a COVID survivor I will be the first to say it was awful, but my suffering cannot compare with what I have seen any average cancer patient suffer.

I will fully acknowledge that there are many COVID patients who were even worse off than me (and I was in a really bad way when I had it) but compared to what I have seen every cancer patient I have even known suffer, COVID is not comparable.

I hope that is reasonably clear,,,

This subject is really growing annoying to the point of being really dysfunctional. Its a bit like the celebrity worship and obsession we have in America, but where real life matters are now being overshadowed by fantasy and infatuation with the morbid.
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Old 10-23-2021, 04:30 PM   #28
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So would you consider cancer heart disease or diabetes apocalyptic also? And yes many many many people have died from Covid but also the numbers are extremely skewed with many many people that died with Covid but not of Covid. Also the numbers need to be compared with flu deaths because as you know those deaths have dropped precipitously


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Let’s do that

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Old 10-23-2021, 04:48 PM   #29
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So would you consider cancer heart disease or diabetes apocalyptic also? And yes many many many people have died from Covid but also the numbers are extremely skewed with many many people that died with Covid but not of Covid. Also the numbers need to be compared with flu deaths because as you know those deaths have dropped precipitously


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It's kind of silly that when someone you generally agree with spills thousands of words, you thank him repeatedly, even when many of those words are obviously wrong, and when I borrow one of his words in response, all of a sudden you're Merriam Webster.

XCR wrote the predicted "apocalypse" did not happen. This was obviously wrong--what happened is much worse than predicted based on number of deaths. Go back and look at 2020 predictions or even predictions from June of this year.

Cancer, heart disease, and diabetes have all taken a terrible death toll on this country and most of our families. If I had to chose, I'd rather covid than any of those. But this is a false choice, we can't choose.

Also funny that you mention flu deaths. COVID's killed something like 10X of a really bad flu year. I'm pretty sure you told us last year, or at least thanked someone who did, that COVID is no worse than the flu. You might want to move off of this now that the data are in
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Old 10-23-2021, 06:01 PM   #30
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Let’s do that

Now compare to previous years flu deaths prior to Covid


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Old 10-23-2021, 06:53 PM   #31
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Now compare to previous years flu deaths prior to Covid
ok - listed below from the CDC (a total of 28,000 deaths in 2018/2019 flu season)

and as far as I know, doctors or medical examiners list the cause of death, not all the other ailments the person may have had... If someone is on their last days with Parkinson's... and gets run over by a car... that is the cause of death, not the Parkinson's... same with Covid... just because someone has stage 4 cancer with maybe months to live... if they get Covid and are being treated for it, and they die from the associated respiratory complications... Covid is the cause of death... they didn't die "with it"... they died "from it"

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Old 10-23-2021, 08:57 PM   #32
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Now compare to previous years flu deaths prior to Covid


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Read the chart carefully.

It is saying,
If you get the Flu and you are over 65 the odds of dying is about 1 in 120.
If you get COVID and you are over 65 the odds of dying is about 1 in 10.
If you get COVID and you are over 75 the odds of dying is about 1 in 5.
If you get COVID and you are over 85 the odds of dying is about 1 in 3.

Yeah, it's just like the Flu.

Note: This is before vaccines.

Yes, people die of complications from COVID because your body can't cope with it's current issues and COVID.
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Old 10-23-2021, 11:05 PM   #33
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It's kind of silly that when someone you generally agree with spills thousands of words, you thank him repeatedly, even when many of those words are obviously wrong, and when I borrow one of his words in response, all of a sudden you're Merriam Webster.

XCR wrote the predicted "apocalypse" did not happen. This was obviously wrong--what happened is much worse than predicted based on number of deaths. Go back and look at 2020 predictions or even predictions from June of this year.

Cancer, heart disease, and diabetes have all taken a terrible death toll on this country and most of our families. If I had to chose, I'd rather covid than any of those. But this is a false choice, we can't choose.

Also funny that you mention flu deaths. COVID's killed something like 10X of a really bad flu year. I'm pretty sure you told us last year, or at least thanked someone who did, that COVID is no worse than the flu. You might want to move off of this now that the data are in
Most people that are listed as dying from the flu are really dying prematurely from complications caused by it... pretty much the same as covid. Because covid is new, the population doesn't have a lifetime of built in resistance to it. The early predictions was as stated. The concept was that if all 330 millions of Americans were to be infected, we would lose roughly 2 million. That would place it at about a 6/10ths mortality rate... something current infection rates bear out.
With a very high R Naught, the lack of mitigation would also result in more deaths due to the strained health care system, something that also became reality in certain areas of the country.

It is really a waste of time for them to discuss because any mandate will not be voted on by the population, and most of the population has immunized and will not feel compelled to concern themselves with those that choose not to.

Lost time is real, hospitalization isn't free. Even when it comes to flu these are big ticket items.

Getting a flu shot cost a couple bucks, lying in an ICU bed for a couple days cost thousands. Lost time results in overtime to the employer. Between overtime and rising insurance premiums... employers will need to balance out the cost to their companies, so it really is a mute discussion.
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Old 10-24-2021, 08:09 AM   #34
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This forum have anything else to discuss besides for this way overplayed topic? We get it, some of you are petrified to leave the house as you’re going to 1000% die if you get it according to some, and the other half don’t care are all…ok so we’ve established that. Check mark.

Let’s go back to enjoying the lake. Heck I’d even take some miserable NIMBY posts over Covid at this point.
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Old 10-24-2021, 10:49 AM   #35
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Now lets compare flu deaths to deaths FROM COVID, not the the CDC numbers of deaths of people WITH COVID. Then you will see a startling difference.

I do not intend to debate why they are listing people who died with COVID in the way we normally list deaths from other causes, but we must acknowledge that the current COVID death count is not the same as we use for other types of deaths we track.

And when we look at the numbers (when you can find them) of actual deaths FROM COVID, they are much lower than deaths of people WITH COVID.

In the end, most of this is pointless and for average citizen, then numbers serve NO legitimate purpose except to scare you. (someones goal)

This COVID conversation need to stop, and people need to move on.

Practice common sense in all you do, get vaccines if its right for you, and stop all the stress over everything that will kill you as there are countless ways to die. Drinking too much water will kill you, drinking contaminated water will kill you, and the list is literally endless.

Its time for the COVID mandates to end, the media coverage to end, and fear to end, and its time for people to live and not in fear.

ATB
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Old 10-24-2021, 12:11 PM   #36
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The mandates are not going to go away.
We will all just have to adjust to whatever the mandates cover in some way or another.
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Old 10-25-2021, 06:24 AM   #37
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The mandates are not going to go away.

We will all just have to adjust to whatever the mandates cover in some way or another.
Or we don’t. This isn’t Russia (or is it?).
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Old 10-25-2021, 09:40 AM   #38
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Or we don’t. This isn’t Russia (or is it?).
In the Lakes Region, the restrictions are few, but that dirty old mask at the bottom of your pocket still comes in handy once in a while. Until the threat is passed, you DO have to comply with certain mandates. You won't be going into a medical facility or airliners without a mask. Some schools and employers mandate masks and/or vaccines as a condition of attendance or employment. Some businesses close for a while after an outbreak. The freedom to be a potential health risk to others is higher in the US that in most countries, but exercising that freedom comes with restrictions based on the freedom of others. Is this Russia? Not at all. Russian influence has been pretty successful in using misinformation to manipulate public discussion, but vaccine and mask mandates are as American as apple pie.
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Old 10-25-2021, 12:25 PM   #39
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I have a huge problem with the Feds mandating a medical procedure... this is such a slippery slope!

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Old 10-25-2021, 12:41 PM   #40
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I have a huge problem with the Feds mandating a medical procedure... this is such a slippery slope!

Woodsy
Schools have long required vaccinations. Is this any different? If states were issuing the mandates, would that make it acceptable? Also, if a business requires its employees to be vaccinated, is this ok?
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Old 10-25-2021, 05:54 PM   #41
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Or we don’t. This isn’t Russia (or is it?).
We have had mandates before Russia ever became communist.

If your employer requires it, you make the choice to no longer be employed by them.
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Old 10-25-2021, 06:00 PM   #42
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Schools have long required vaccinations. Is this any different? If states were issuing the mandates, would that make it acceptable? Also, if a business requires its employees to be vaccinated, is this ok?
To be truthful... I think this is all a very slippery slope. I firmly believe it should be up to the individual or in the case of children the parents when it comes to medical decisions and especially getting this particular vaccine. This is not a vax in the traditional sense where they use a live/dead virus. While the research into MRNA technology has been going on for awhile, this is still a brand new technology when it comes to actual use in humans. This is a vax that was developed/"tested"/released in under a year... that is crazy fast when it comes to medical approval for ANYTHING! IMHO, the law of unintended consequences will eventually rear its ugly head.

I am very skeptical when a government uses the excuse "common good" when it comes to anything... especially something as critical as a vax. I am even more skeptical when the government had the Covid DNA mapped in January 2020... IMHO, this is a man made "gain of function" virus, hence the rapid mutations. Up next Delta+

I can dive way deeper, but I will just say that if the vax was that effective we would not be seeing an almost 30% so called breakthrough infections.

I don't think a persons employer has ANY right to offer an opinion on an individuals medical decisions, for the same reasons stated above.

If a government can mandate this vax, they can soon start mandating/forcing lots of other health decisions in the name of "common good".

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Old 10-25-2021, 06:09 PM   #43
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The employer does not offer an opinion.
They set the terms of the employment agreement.

It is never ''opinion''; you either meet the standard or you don't.

In NH, we call it ''Employed-At-Will''.
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Old 10-25-2021, 07:10 PM   #44
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To be truthful... I think this is all a very slippery slope. I firmly believe it should be up to the individual or in the case of children the parents when it comes to medical decisions and especially getting this particular vaccine. This is not a vax in the traditional sense where they use a live/dead virus. While the research into MRNA technology has been going on for awhile, this is still a brand new technology when it comes to actual use in humans. This is a vax that was developed/"tested"/released in under a year... that is crazy fast when it comes to medical approval for ANYTHING! IMHO, the law of unintended consequences will eventually rear its ugly head.

I am very skeptical when a government uses the excuse "common good" when it comes to anything... especially something as critical as a vax. I am even more skeptical when the government had the Covid DNA mapped in January 2020... IMHO, this is a man made "gain of function" virus, hence the rapid mutations. Up next Delta+

I can dive way deeper, but I will just say that if the vax was that effective we would not be seeing an almost 30% so called breakthrough infections.

I don't think a persons employer has ANY right to offer an opinion on an individuals medical decisions, for the same reasons stated above.

If a government can mandate this vax, they can soon start mandating/forcing lots of other health decisions in the name of "common good".

Woodsy
The J&J COVID vaccine is a traditional vaccine. Old technology, just like generations of us have been required to get to go to school, camp, etc. So unless you're also asserting that Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Tetanus, etc are also a risk to our freedom; it would seem that you'd be good with J&J
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Old 10-25-2021, 07:24 PM   #45
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The J&J COVID vaccine is a traditional vaccine. Old technology, just like generations of us have been required to get to go to school, camp, etc. So unless you're also asserting that Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Tetanus, etc are also a risk to our freedom; it would seem that you'd be good with J&J
You should do your research.... instead of buying into the ad campaign. The J&J vax is a "viral vector" vax. It is another new and relatively unproven technology. To date there is only 1 viral vector vax approved here in the US.... J&J! Only 6 total approved worldwide, 4 for Covid, 2 for Ebola.

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Old 10-25-2021, 07:52 PM   #46
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We have had mandates before Russia ever became communist.

If your employer requires it, you make the choice to no longer be employed by them.
Since I am the employer, it makes it simple I guess. . I’ll mandate there are no mandates and not continue this insanity towards socialism.

Wonder what would the left would be saying if a Trump administration mandated all this- think it would received the same welcome response ? You all know the answer whether it would be admitted nor not.
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Old 10-25-2021, 07:54 PM   #47
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The employer does not offer an opinion.
They set the terms of the employment agreement.

It is never ''opinion''; you either meet the standard or you don't.

In NH, we call it ''Employed-At-Will''.
In Russia they call it "taking a week off with pay", Oct 30 to Nov 7, 2021, a Vladimir Putin method to stop the corona virus from spreading any worse in Russia.

How's about that, comrade! ..... ...... Wonder how much Russian rubles the Russians will actually be getting to stay home and not be working? .....

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Business/w...dered-80681257

This linked ABC report says that four of these days are already federal holidays which include Ground Forces Day, the Day for the Russian Army, on November 1.
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Old 10-25-2021, 08:52 PM   #48
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Were I in a job that mandated vaccination to go along with the desires of our federal government and I din't want the vaccination I would absolutely let them fire me.

Quitting one's job might take away standing in subsequent litigation.

I chose to get vaccinated because at 63 I figured that getting covid might be rough for me.

I support those who choose not get vaccinated.

My pregnant daughter in law was advised to get the shot.

She declined.

I am concerned for my daughter who was vaccinated and is in her child bearing years.

These vaccines may help against covid but whatever else they do to SOME people has yet to be discovered.

Google "Thalidomide" if you are interested in how bad it can go.
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Old 10-25-2021, 09:26 PM   #49
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TKD is right. And it is not freedom to potentially risk the health of others. It’s freedom to have autonomy over your own body.


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Old 10-25-2021, 09:49 PM   #50
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Since I am the employer, it makes it simple I guess. . I’ll mandate there are no mandates and not continue this insanity towards socialism.

Wonder what would the left would be saying if a Trump administration mandated all this- think it would received the same welcome response ? You all know the answer whether it would be admitted nor not.
My guess is the Trump supporters would go along and the Biden would be protesting.

But it isn't the ends of the political spectrum that make decisions.

As an employer, if you are even large enough to fall under the mandates, then you have to make a decision as to what costs to your company.
Employers risk OSHA fines all the time; they also get pretty upset when the fines get imposed. They run the risk/reward ratio every day on dozens of decisions.
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Old 10-26-2021, 04:49 PM   #51
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You should do your research.... instead of buying into the ad campaign. The J&J vax is a "viral vector" vax. It is another new and relatively unproven technology. To date there is only 1 viral vector vax approved here in the US.... J&J! Only 6 total approved worldwide, 4 for Covid, 2 for Ebola.

Woodsy
It's old enough for me. (Of course, mRNA was old enough for me, too, haha)

Here's more on viral vector vaccines, dating back to the 1970s

https://www.houstonmethodist.org/blo...hings-to-know/
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Old 10-26-2021, 04:52 PM   #52
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My guess is the Trump supporters would go along and the Biden would be protesting.

But it isn't the ends of the political spectrum that make decisions.

As an employer, if you are even large enough to fall under the mandates, then you have to make a decision as to what costs to your company.
Employers risk OSHA fines all the time; they also get pretty upset when the fines get imposed. They run the risk/reward ratio every day on dozens of decisions.
This Biden supporter cheered Trump's initiative on the vaccines.

This employer thought it was a no brainer to require vaccines for all
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Old 10-27-2021, 03:13 PM   #53
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Yes. I wrote "apocalyptic, at least by modern standards", which is a bit of a metaphor.

We're at close to 5,000,000 dead worldwide, over 700,000 in the US. I think the last time that many people died of anything, it was WWII. Plus this cuts across all demographics, and impacts all of our social, educational, and economic systems. I was not old enough to understand Vietnam's impact, but this has had more negative impact than anything in the past 50 years. So I'm OK with calling it apocalyptic by modern standards.
If you put together everything that happened in this country in 2020, you would have to go back more than 50 years to find anything this traumatic in this country. In fact, I don't think the U.S. has ever had a more "apocalyptic" year than 2020 since its inception. There were 5 or 6 major crises happening simultaneously. It definitely felt apocalyptic to me personally and, I think, to people who took the time to understand what was happening, who got Covid-19 and feared dying, who lost loved ones to the virus, who lived in major hot spots like New York and heard ambulances 24 hours a day while bodies piled up in storage trucks, who witnessed the race riots, who listened to false accusations of a "stolen election" and watched our democracy melting down, who lost a job or a home, whose home burned to the ground during the wildfires, and who realized that we could do nothing about the climate crisis during that period of national paralysis and shock. Many people felt that there was no protection for them anywhere, not from the government, not from the police, not from the military in a time of government-sanctioned violence, abuse of power, and misinformation (formerly called "lies"). It was a feeling of horror and helplessness that I will never forget to my dying day. Apocalyptic, certainly.
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Old 10-28-2021, 08:04 AM   #54
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Masks and indoor NH-lakes region pickleball?

Having been vaxxed three times, the last one in September, with the Pfizer vax at the Plymouth CVS pharmacy I have a sense on invincibility against the virus! Who me ...... no way ..... will never-ever happen what with three shots of Pfizer plus a flu shot as well?

So, the local indoor pickleball season has started up as of October 25 with pickleball venues typically happening at local town indoor gymnasiums and pickleballers, are aged about 55-82.

Should pickleballers be wearing masks while playing indoor pickleball? A good question? Nobody does wear a mask, so far, that I have seen, and the issue hasn't been discussed. If anyone wants to wear a mask at pickleball, it is their decision ......... so far?

Oh well, someone will probably need to actually catch the corona virus before pickleballers will start wearing masks ....... live pickleball or die! .....

Been vaxxed three times by the very efficient and professional pharmacy team at the CVS in Plymouth with no waiting around in a waiting line ....... so, What Me Worry ..... according to the old Mad Magazine! ..... I've been vaxxed ........ three times! .....

By the way, and not that it matters as far as catching the corona virus while playing pickleball here in New Hampshire...... I am like the greatest pickleball player that ever lived since pickleball was first invented ...... the Novak Djokovic, Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Andy Murray of pickleball ....... ha-ha-ha! .....

Maybe the answer for improving the indoor air quality is to simply open a door at the back of the pickleball gym and let some fresh air flow inside the large indoor gym playing area. Hey ...... take a deep breath ...... that feels like fresh air!
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Old 10-28-2021, 01:31 PM   #55
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“Climate crisis”. Lol.


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Old 10-28-2021, 02:16 PM   #56
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If you put together everything that happened in this country in 2020, you would have to go back more than 50 years to find anything this traumatic in this country. In fact, I don't think the U.S. has ever had a more "apocalyptic" year than 2020 since its inception. There were 5 or 6 major crises happening simultaneously. It definitely felt apocalyptic to me personally and, I think, to people who took the time to understand what was happening, who got Covid-19 and feared dying, who lost loved ones to the virus, who lived in major hot spots like New York and heard ambulances 24 hours a day while bodies piled up in storage trucks, who witnessed the race riots, who listened to false accusations of a "stolen election" and watched our democracy melting down, who lost a job or a home, whose home burned to the ground during the wildfires, and who realized that we could do nothing about the climate crisis during that period of national paralysis and shock. Many people felt that there was no protection for them anywhere, not from the government, not from the police, not from the military in a time of government-sanctioned violence, abuse of power, and misinformation (formerly called "lies"). It was a feeling of horror and helplessness that I will never forget to my dying day. Apocalyptic, certainly.


Wow this is overly dramatic and exaggerated .

Please don’t believe those stories about New York. I’m from there and have many friends that work in several hospitals. There was never bodies stacked up and overcrowding in limited circumstances. They have sent up the USS Hospitality and the Javits Center to handle overflow and not one patient was transferred to either facility.


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Old 10-28-2021, 02:28 PM   #57
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Interesting.

Which U.S. state has the lowest COVID-19 rate right now?

It’s not California, home of America’s strictest mask and vaccine requirements. Nor is it Vermont, even though 71 percent of residents there have been fully inoculated — the most in the country.

No, the state with the fewest daily COVID cases per capita is Florida.

Florida’s turnaround vindicates the hands-off policies of Republican Gov. (and likely 2024 presidential hopeful) Ron DeSantis, who spent his summer prohibiting local schools, businesses and governments from requiring masks or vaccination while emphasizing costly post-infection treatments such as monoclonal antibodies instead.

“DeSantis critics and the mainstream media remain quiet as Florida's COVID numbers drop,” read a recent headline on Newsmax.
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Old 10-29-2021, 07:52 AM   #58
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NH is one of 5 states not to have a COVID-19 death under 17!
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Old 10-29-2021, 01:04 PM   #59
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...preading-delta


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Old 10-29-2021, 04:35 PM   #60
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Old 10-29-2021, 09:17 PM   #61
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trfour, thank you for that last post. Being on this planet is a privilege, and we owe much in return.
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Old 10-30-2021, 10:23 AM   #62
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Wait, the planet is female now? lol

If you “think” you’re born with rights? The Declaration of Independence weighs in on this one.

Indigenous? All who were born her are indigenous. I think the Cherokees were Indians.


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Old 10-30-2021, 01:04 PM   #63
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The planet has always had a feminine standing among the many cultures.

The Declaration of Independence tended to describe the hope and not the reality. It really didn't find any truth in the AoC or in the US Constitution. You could be born into slavery, so you really didn't have a right to life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness.

''Indian'' was an adopted term because Columbus was looking for a western route to India. Citizens of India are actually Indians.
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Old 10-30-2021, 02:09 PM   #64
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Default .... open the doors, & open the windows!

Open the doors, open the windows, and let the fresh air flow inside the room.

With some towns in N.H. requiring masks for indoor activities like public meetings, public school class rooms, and public community athletic games, it don't hurt none to open the doors.

Just let that fresh outdoor air flow inside the room to help alleviate the risk for catching the virus. Just take a breath, and it's spring time, cough-cough-cough, gaag .....awg ...... must be another case for contracting the virus. ..... .... cough-cough!

www.nhpr.org/coronavirus-updates ...... October 29, 2021
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Old 10-30-2021, 10:10 PM   #65
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You’re right about citizens of India being Indians, hence the often used, more descriptive term American Indian.

People are endowed with rights at birth as described in the Declaration, but yes, more than 150 years ago some groups’ rights were abridged (liberty, not life). Thankfully the founding fathers provided the amendment process in the Constitution.

I’ve heard Mother Earth before, but not Mother Planet. I take your point though.


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Old 10-30-2021, 11:05 PM   #66
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They are called American Indians because it was discovered that Columbus did not land in India; hence it is still an inaccurate term.

And if a right was truly endowed by a creator, it could not be set aside for more than a century.
Any thing prescribed in the Constitution is simply the will of the super-majority. And yes, they could lose their life... a slave owner would not be charged with killing a slave.
In fact, if someone else killed them, the greater concern was not the murder, it was the loss of property and the service it provided - less a criminal problem, and more a civil one.

The Constitution's purpose was to replace the AoC providing more power to the federal government.
A lot of the changes have to do with one party or the other either trying to get into office or maintain their office.

Take for instance Social Security. No judicial review ever came before the Court, because FDR would simply pack the Court to get his way.
Legal, but unethical.
Same instance occurred when President Obama was denied a Senate hearing and vote on his nomination.
Legal, but unethical.

Same thing has been suggested by the Biden Administration... and it would be legal, but unethical.

I think that is why Franklin made his comment on the Republic; he knew it was more about the ethics of the citizenry than an unseen creator or words on paper.
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Old 10-31-2021, 10:37 AM   #67
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Whether you need a Creator to be seen to believe He exists is a whole other conversation.

Of course it could be unrealized for more than a century, as it was and had been for millennia on five continents. Endowment does not equate with guarantee. Free will gets in the way. Here we are now, though, 155 years later, with most people living in the present.

FDR didn’t pack the Court. (I’m guessing you’re defining packing as adding additional members, which could only be done by an Act of Congress). He floated the idea but the pushback prevented it for obvious reasons.

I think Franklin’s comments were true and prescient but the words on paper remain as bedrock founding principles with a mechanism for improvement.


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Old 10-31-2021, 01:47 PM   #68
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There was no pushback. The Court decided not to take up cases related to SS benefit payments.
You can pack the Court without expanding its numbers; FDR just didn't have the option other than that.

The AoC was considered bedrock founding principles... it was the actual document that founded the United States of America. It also had the ability to be improved... but they chose to scrap it.

It provided too much liberty to the individual members.


Nothing in the fight against covid had been done without the underlying question of the economy. It really doesn't matter which party is in power... or for that matter... anything else.
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Old 10-31-2021, 05:36 PM   #69
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You can’t “pack” the Court by replacing a justice who has died or retired. No where is it written that the Court must be balanced in their judicial philosophy or even political leanings. If there were to be six presidents in a row all of the same party, then the Court appointments would reflect that and by extension would be the will of the people.

The AoC was replaced because the states decided that more federal power was needed. The delegates from the states created the federal government, so it was their prerogative to refine it.

You’re right, the economy was and should have been a factor in the decisions surrounding the virus. I believe the tension there is where the great divide in public opinion lives.


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Old 10-31-2021, 09:02 PM   #70
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You can’t “pack” the Court by replacing a justice who has died or retired. No where is it written that the Court must be balanced in their judicial philosophy or even political leanings. If there were to be six presidents in a row all of the same party, then the Court appointments would reflect that and by extension would be the will of the people.

The AoC was replaced because the states decided that more federal power was needed. The delegates from the states created the federal government, so it was their prerogative to refine it.

You’re right, the economy was and should have been a factor in the decisions surrounding the virus. I believe the tension there is where the great divide in public opinion lives.


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You pack the Court by using legislative means.
Whether you are expanding the number of seats, or denying a Senate vote until you have a nomination from a President of your own party... really the same thing.

The AoC was not refined, it was scrapped. And the States were not happy at first, which is why we had the first thirteen proposed amendments to the new document - ten of which became ratified.
To this day, most people don't realize the depth of the ties.
NH is going to discuss leaving, but all that would do is start the run on the banks, the foreclosure of mortgages, and a whole host of items that no one too the time to work through.

The economy was always the decision surrounding the virus.
The outside players couldn't see it, because the businesses wanted it that way. But anyone on the inside could put all the pieces together and realize just how bad things had gotten... and how bad things still are.
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Old 10-31-2021, 09:50 PM   #71
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I meant the federal government was refined by the replacement of the AoC.

What do you mean by NH going to discuss leaving?

Also to whatever do you refer when you say how bad things had gotten . . . the economy or the virus?


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Old 10-31-2021, 11:16 PM   #72
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CACR 2022-2243

The economy and virus are tied together.
We have plenty of demand, just not enough labor.
And what is left of the labor force is feeling the strain.
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Old 11-01-2021, 02:50 PM   #73
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I see what you mean now. Agreed.


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Old 11-04-2021, 09:39 AM   #74
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Exclamation Keep an eye on this

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/scie...tries-rcna4450
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Old 11-08-2021, 09:20 AM   #75
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Just more media drama, 2 years change is not worth noting, and for the vast majority of people, your quality of life past 75 drops drastically, and thats assuming you are lucky enough to make it that far.

Life span numbers should never be what we are focusing on, quality of life is whats most important.

And working yourself up over this is going to kill you faster than any pandemic.

Enjoy life and ignore the news, they have nothing to offer except drama and opinion, there has no legitimate news without drama since Huntley & Brinkley.

You can blame Walter Cronkite for the transition to all drama news, he invented it!
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Old 11-08-2021, 10:15 AM   #76
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Old 11-08-2021, 10:44 AM   #77
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/researc..._copyURL_share


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Old 11-08-2021, 07:22 PM   #78
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I've forgotten what the original topic of this thread was. In any case, the New York Times is reporting today that Republicans are dying of Covid at a rate 3 times higher than Democrats because 40% of Republicans aren't vaccinated whereas only 10% of Democrats aren't vaccinated.
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:13 PM   #79
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I can't imagine that any doctor is going to ask party affiliation or how they voted last and enter it into the medical records.

Also the death rate is relatively low, while the lost time rate is extremely high.
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Old 11-09-2021, 06:45 AM   #80
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In any case, the New York Times is reporting today that Republicans are dying of Covid at a rate 3 times higher than Democrats because 40% of Republicans aren't vaccinated whereas only 10% of Democrats aren't vaccinated.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/b...d-america.html ..... the morning newsletter

NY Times, Nov 8, 2021: U.S. Covid Deaths Get Even Redder

Subscription probably needed to see it but maybe not?
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Old 11-09-2021, 09:57 AM   #81
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I've forgotten what the original topic of this thread was. In any case, the New York Times is reporting today that Republicans are dying of Covid at a rate 3 times higher than Democrats because 40% of Republicans aren't vaccinated whereas only 10% of Democrats aren't vaccinated.
Where are the "DEBUNKERS" when we really need them?
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:01 AM   #82
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Old 11-09-2021, 10:28 AM   #83
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Exclamation 758,186 Deaths in U.S.

And very possibly many more that never were recorded, or haven't become YET.
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Old 11-09-2021, 11:09 AM   #84
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I can't imagine that any doctor is going to ask party affiliation or how they voted last and enter it into the medical records.

Also the death rate is relatively low, while the lost time rate is extremely high.
Right, doctors don't ask. This most recent analysis was based on geography--comparing areas that are Red vs Blue in terms of voting. Like numerous other analyses, they showed Republicans with lower vaccination rates and higher impacts from COVID. All of this is easily Googled.

I'm not sure why this would be a surprise to anyone. Even though we debate the costs vs benefits of vaccines, I'm pretty sure we all believe that Republicans are vaccinated at lower rates, and that we all believe that the vaccines have at least some level of effectiveness. If you believe that a group of people with fewer vaccinations will be less protected than a group with more vaccinations, then obviously Republicans are going to have more negative impacts from COVID.
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Old 11-09-2021, 11:58 PM   #85
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But it is still really a guess.
Not conclusive.
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Old 11-10-2021, 06:20 AM   #86
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Exclamation 759,838 Deaths in U.S.

NO guessing for me.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
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Old 11-10-2021, 03:44 PM   #87
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New U. S. Death count by Covid-19 Pandemic.
SO sad.

760,979

Deaths in U.S.
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Old 11-10-2021, 07:43 PM   #88
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It would still be guessing.
Even if an area had 80 percent of voters in one party, we could not determine those voters are the ones dying. We could not even with precision determine the the ratio was equivalent to the voting pattern.
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Old 11-10-2021, 09:08 PM   #89
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It would still be guessing.
Even if an area had 80 percent of voters in one party, we could not determine those voters are the ones dying. We could not even with precision determine the the ratio was equivalent to the voting pattern.
You seem to be insisting on analytical perfection where none is possible, and simultaneously ignoring a huge amount of data that all point in the same direction. Here's a similar article with more cuts at at it. The most powerful things are that it also shows at the county level, it's ramping up over time, and it's entirely consistent with behavior and politics we all acknowledge. In this one, even Breitbart is recognizing the trend

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/b...cinations.html
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Old 11-11-2021, 06:22 AM   #90
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http://www.wmur.com/article/new-hamp...-2021-38212073 ..... 'Fixed Covid-19 Vaccination Sites Returning to New Hampshire' ..... including a site somewhere in Plymouth, NH although it does not say where.

You know that Plymouth NH already has the CVS-Pharmacy which has been a vaccination site since the vaccinations began last March or February so if you wish to get vaccinated the CVS is right there. I've been in there for all three of my vaccinations and each time there was no waiting, and I was like the only person getting vaccinated. It made me feel like a vaccination rock & roll, super-star celebrity .... rock-on! .... .... HOO-YAH! .... and jab me one, again!

Say-hey ...... can barely wait up for the fourth trip back to CVS and my heavy paper vaccination record card does, in fact, have a fourth unused information line for recording a fourth vaccination so's whoever designed these vaccination cards at the CDC knew what they were doing.
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Old 11-11-2021, 01:32 PM   #91
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Germany is experiencing an intense 4th wave of infections and deaths---yesterday saw the highest numbers since the beginning of the pandemic! Germans are going back to their nightmare of 2020. Reason: vaccination resistance in all three of the German-speaking countries (Germany, Austria, Switzerland), associated with right-wing politics.

https://www.ft.com/content/f04ac67b-...3-817cc0483df5

While I feel bad for those victims and their families, this seems to be a case of survival of the fittest. People who are intelligent enough to seek scientific information about the virus and take all available means to avoid it are the ones who are going to survive. Those who cling to falsehoods about the virus, refuse vaccination for political or other ideological or religious reasons, don't wear masks, and don't practice social distancing are the ones who are going to die at this point.

"Survival of the fittest" involves adaptation to current conditions, which includes availability of scientific knowledge, vaccinations, and proven protective strategies. If you're stuck in nonadaptive thinking, you're not going to make it. Problem: your thinking doesn't change, but the world does change. (Same problem with the climate crisis.)

This is about simple cause and effect. You protect yourself, you live. You don't protect yourself, you die. That's a universal principle that doesn't care what your political or religious beliefs are.

Ultimately it comes down to whether people WANT to live or not. If you want to live, you protect yourself.
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Old 11-11-2021, 01:39 PM   #92
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It made me feel like a vaccination rock & roll, super-star celebrity .... rock-on! .... .... HOO-YAH! .... and jab me one, again!
Sir, sometimes I think you're crazy. No, I USUALLY think you're crazy. Then suddenly you say something that makes sense and I think, "What?? I thought he was nuts." So which is it? I have to know before I take my snowblower to that guy you recommended.
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Old 11-11-2021, 02:14 PM   #93
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Exclamation Guess Work?

The Only, https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...inals-rcna5124
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Old 11-11-2021, 02:26 PM   #94
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Exclamation Not Over Yet.

Be Safe; https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-isnt-rcna4976

Truth Works: https://www.nbcnews.com/data-graphic...-re-w-rcna4895

762,705

Deaths in U.S.
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Old 11-11-2021, 07:03 PM   #95
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You seem to be insisting on analytical perfection where none is possible, and simultaneously ignoring a huge amount of data that all point in the same direction. Here's a similar article with more cuts at at it. The most powerful things are that it also shows at the county level, it's ramping up over time, and it's entirely consistent with behavior and politics we all acknowledge. In this one, even Breitbart is recognizing the trend

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/b...cinations.html
Then it is simply a guess.
I did not get a vaccine because how I voted. I got one because the analysis was that the risk of the vaccine was far less than the risk of covid, and the financial impact was zero versus possible disaster.

I think the analysis is largely worthless. It seems that death is more likely to occur when a rise in infection occurs, and that is most likely to happen people are cattled together.
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Old 11-11-2021, 07:26 PM   #96
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Then it is simply a guess.

I did not get a vaccine because how I voted. I got one because the analysis was that the risk of the vaccine was far less than the risk of covid, and the financial impact was zero versus possible disaster.

I think the analysis is largely worthless. It seems that death is more likely to occur when a rise in infection occurs, and that is most likely to happen people are cattled together.
Hogwash.

"Red" states are red because the majority of the residents share similar philosophies, among them the principals of freedom, government distrust/limits, and a hesitance to choose science over religion/traditional beliefs—all predictors of behavior revolving around Covid masking, vaccination, and physical distancing.

There's absolutely nothing surprising, then, that people in red states have a higher likelihood of getting harmed/dying from Covid...for the short term.

There is evidence, that follows the same principals as above, to show that natural immunity is increasing and the gap between red and blue will decrease to whatever the difference is between antibody and vaccine protection.

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Old 11-11-2021, 08:05 PM   #97
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The excitement of shopping at the Walmart in Plymouth has recently been enhanced with loud speaker announcements that welcome their customers to get Covid vaccinations at the Walmart Pharmacy.

Save money. Live better. Shop at Walmart and NOW get vaccinated at the Walmart in Plymouth, NH. .... ..... HOO-YAH!

.............

"I will not reveal my status whether I have been vaccinated or not." ...... Novak Djokovic , #1 tennis player and worth about 220-million dollars, talking to a Serbian newspaper interview ..... Oct 20, 2021

Something tells me he really has been vaccinated but does not want to offend those in Serbia who chose not to be vaccinated.


.............
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Old 11-11-2021, 08:54 PM   #98
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The excitement of shopping at the Walmart in Plymouth has recently been enhanced with loud speaker announcements that welcome their customers to get Covid vaccinations at the Walmart Pharmacy.

Save money. Live better. Shop at Walmart and NOW get vaccinated at the Walmart in Plymouth, NH. .... ..... HOO-YAH!

.............

"I will not reveal my status whether I have been vaccinated or not." ...... Novak Djokovic , #1 tennis player and worth about 220-million dollars, talking to a Serbian newspaper interview ..... Oct 20, 2021

Something tells me he really has been vaccinated but does not want to offend those in Serbia who chose not to be vaccinated.


.............
No Worries! just wait by Customer Service and they call the Store Greeter over to give you the jab.

What could possibly go wrong?
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Old 11-11-2021, 10:54 PM   #99
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Hogwash.

"Red" states are red because the majority of the residents share similar philosophies, among them the principals of freedom, government distrust/limits, and a hesitance to choose science over religion/traditional beliefs—all predictors of behavior revolving around Covid masking, vaccination, and physical distancing.

There's absolutely nothing surprising, then, that people in red states have a higher likelihood of getting harmed/dying from Covid...for the short term.

There is evidence, that follows the same principals as above, to show that natural immunity is increasing and the gap between red and blue will decrease to whatever the difference is between antibody and vaccine protection.

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But not everyone in a ''red'' State is Republican.

Take the recent local elections for example.
Laconia has an all Republican delegation to the Legislature... local chosen.
But Dawn Johnson, one of those legislators, was soundly beaten by Andrew Hosmer.
In most States and regions, the parties are winning by narrow margins. So ''red'' or ''blue'' sometimes represents on very small number of voters compared to the total... and that does not even take into account the rather large number of qualified voters that do not vote.

Without firm statistics, we are just guessing. The next wave could hit New England very hard... and New England... except for one Senate seat is ''blue''.

We also know that cities tend to be more Democrat supportive than rural areas... we see that in every election.

So even though more people in the cities might be vaccinated, if they herd together they increase the chances of breakthroughs. Where a very rural person might never come into contact with the virus.

Very hard to paint a whole population with a brush without definitive data.
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Old 11-12-2021, 08:21 AM   #100
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Ouch; https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-ne...detox-rcna4859
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