Safety certificates to buy gas?

[Kamper]

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...wreply&p=78748

The above post is from the recent (and still active) "Major Bonehead" thread, which I did not want to hi-jack. It mentions a display of an obvious lack of competence on a boat operator at a fuel dock.

I wonder if it might be useful to the boating community, if fuel docks required a "Safe Boating Certificate" to be shown when fueling a boat that requires one for operation.

This suggestion is not targetted at any particular boat category just those people who feel they will get the card after they get caught. Would it be effective as a law? Do you think businesses would support it as a suggested procedure?

[chipj29]

On the surface, not a bad idea. However, I doubt any business would want the responsibility of enforcing a law. Let me give you a scenario.
Non-certified boater gets gas at a marina. Gas attendant checks certificate, but doesn't realize the certificate is not for the person driving the boat, it is someone elses that he stole. Boater goes out and rams another boat (at 44 mph), and kills someone. Dead persons family sues boater, as well as the marina who was supposed to check the validity of the certificate.

My assumption would be that no business would want to be in the law enforcement business, one reason being liability.

As I am typing this, I am thinking of all the bars and restaurants across the state who have to check ID's in order to sell booze....not that they want to, but they have to.

[Airwaves]

Civilians shouldn't be in the law enforcement business, period.

That said if NHMP wanted to take it a step further they, with the business owners permission, could have an officer or two go from gas dock to gas dock checking certificates.
They may have to make an announcement prior to doing it along the lines of the SP announcing sobriety checkpoints in advance.

But unless the NHMP has found a large number of boaters operating without a certificate then what's the point? Not being able to dock a boat, while expensive, is not illegal.

If a business owner notices sales are off he/she might approach the state and see if they would partner with a promotion to give gas discounts to boaters on a limited basis between the hours of X and Y that produce a boating certificate, or maybe a safety inspection decal. That would certainly be a more tourist friendly way to do it.

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by Kamper

I wonder if it might be useful to the boating community, if fuel docks required a "Safe Boating Certificate" to be shown when fueling a boat that requires one for operation.

A card reader could be used to read the certificate and electronically start the pump.

Better yet, the MPs could ticket-punch the certificate when a stop is made. Multiple punches would point to a problem boater. At some point, the card would not start the pump.

A well-meaning concept, but there would be too much resistance from problem boaters. I don't see it happening.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Kamper

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...wreply&p=78748

The above post is from the recent (and still active) "Major Bonehead" thread, which I did not want to hi-jack. It mentions a display of an obvious lack of competence on a boat operator at a fuel dock.

I wonder if it might be useful to the boating community, if fuel docks required a "Safe Boating Certificate" to be shown when fueling a boat that requires one for operation.

This suggestion is not targetted at any particular boat category just those people who feel they will get the card after they get caught. Would it be effective as a law? Do you think businesses would support it as a suggested procedure?

Unfortunately, there are plenty and people with certificates that can't boat well and vice versa! I prefer to see the MP stopping poor boaters than checking certificates.

[RLW]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Civilians shouldn't be in the law enforcement business, period.

If that were the case then why are the liquor stores checking drivers license. Isn't that a civilian being a law enforcer???

[DC Pointer]

Do we really need more laws, more rules and more regulations?

[Lakepilot]

I don't believe you learn how to dock a boat in the NH boating classes. I didn't. The classes focus primarily on rules and regulations as well as some practical knowledge. When you get a drivers license you have to demonstrate the ability to actually drive a car. Same with a motorcycle, but not so with a boat.

And then what kind of boat would you be tested on? I bet many small boat operators don't know what scope is. If you're going to anchor a boat though you should know what it is.

[Airwaves]

RLW wrote:

If that were the case then why are the liquor stores checking drivers license. Isn't that a civilian being a law enforcer???

Actually that has more to do with the protection of the liquor store's very expensive license to sell alcohol since law enforcement conducts fairly routine sting operations against them, and you can't forget litigation. They aren't doing law enforcement, they are protecting their investment.

[RLW]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Actually that has more to do with the protection of the liquor store's very expensive license to sell alcohol since law enforcement conducts fairly routine sting operations against them, and you can't forget litigation. They aren't doing law enforcement, they are protecting their investment.

That is very true as that IS THE LAW. If you make it a law to check boating certificates wouldn't that come under the same thing "protecting other boaters and knowing the rules of safe boating." The MP could come and put a sting on the gas attendants couldn't they? One could go around and around on this. You can say one thing and someone else will come right back and rebuttal you

[NoBozo]

Actually, there was a time when you could take your SCUBA bottles to a dive shop and just get them refilled. For some time now ..maybe decades..you need a Dive Certificate to get this done.

Automobiles..for the sake of getting a licence.. are pretty much the same..some are a little bigger than otheres..but all "handle" about the same.

Boats on the other hand are..handling wise..are all over the ball park. A "Captain" canidate would have to show up for the test in his own boat and demonstrate his competency. SO: Lets say he passes. Next year he gets a new bigger..different boat..would he be required to pass the "behind the wheel test" with every new boat? Probably not very practicle or realistic.

So we would still have a problem.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Lakepilot

I don't believe you learn how to dock a boat in the NH boating classes.

As a friend of ours says, never approach a dock faster than you want to hit it.

[Airwaves]

You're right we can play this all night. However in the case of a liquor store owner, law enforcement is targetting the store, not the patrons and the store owner has his/her investment and income at stake. What will the NHMP do to a marina? Shut them down like a liquor store?

In the case of a liquior store owner, in the vast majority of cases they just turn folks away when they are underage....they don't do the enforcement part of law enforcement and hold them for the police to incarcerate.

So are you really suggesting that you want the NHMP to conduct sting operations on gas docks?...this goes back to my comments about the differing attitudes between one state that relies on summer tourism and the attitudes of another.

[RLW]

Originally Posted by RLW

That is very true as that IS THE LAW. If you make it a law to check boating certificates wouldn't that come under the same thing "protecting other boaters and knowing the rules of safe boating." The MP could come and put a sting on the gas attendants couldn't they? One could go around and around on this. You can say one thing and someone else will come right back and rebuttal you

It appears that this part of the thread is doing just that, going down that crazy path.

[RLW]

Originally Posted by Lakepilot
I don't believe you learn how to dock a boat in the NH boating classes.

Originally Posted by Rose

As a friend of ours says, never approach a dock faster than you want to hit it.

You may be right, BUT it does give one many ideas that one can try and help them getting started. That's more than having nothing and trying to dock a boat.

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

... A "Captain" canidate would have to show up for the test in his own boat and demonstrate his competency. ...

I'm not suggesting "licensure." Just a requirement to display the currently mandated certificate. I can imagine several service issues that might arise for the vendors but if I threw in every scenario and counter-scenario I could think of, I would still be typing my orignal post.

In the long run, this may not be a viable strategy or it might be better to expand it to other service providers like commercial ramps and launch services. I see this could become a "camel's nose" sort of thing but it might cut down on the folks who dont even know the Rules-Of-the-Road.

You can't outlaw stupid but you can try to limit ignorance.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Kamper

I'm not suggesting "licensure." Just a requirement to display the currently mandated certificate. I can imagine several service issues that might arise for the vendors but if I threw in every scenario and counter-scenario I could think of, I would still be typing my orignal post.

In the long run, this may not be a viable strategy or it might be better to expand it to other service providers like commercial ramps and launch services. I see this could become a "camel's nose" sort of thing but it might cut down on the folks who dont even know the Rules-Of-the-Road.

You can't outlaw stupid but you can try to limit ignorance.

Maybe we should all wear them on our hats like the fishermen do !! LOL

Like I said above, I would rather see rules such as the 150' rule being enforced as well as give way etc. It is my opinion now that all boaters supposedly hold certificates (except for a ridiclous loophole that allows a 2 week temporary certificate (given by rental shops, etc who have a vested interested in those boaters passing)) that this process is as useful as a screen door on a submarine. I have seen no increase in the level of competence on this lake. This is not the fault of the MP- it is the fault of those that put their fun ahead of all of our safety!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Kamper

"...I wonder if it might be useful to the boating community, if fuel docks required a "Safe Boating Certificate" to be shown when fueling a boat that requires one for operation..."

In my humble opinion, the boating certificate projects nothing about the competency of the skipper—only that he has a piece of plastic that indicates he may have passed a test by himself. (Or, tested on-line, may not have).

It would make more sense to attach a Breathalyzer™ to the pump, but that's not going to happen either.

Originally Posted by Airwaves

"...So are you really suggesting that you want the NHMP to conduct sting operations on gas docks...?"

...and...

Originally Posted by Airwaves

"...Civilians shouldn't be in the law enforcement business, period..."

If you were the citizen pump attendant, would you not report a skipper who staggers, has slurred speech, and alcohol on his breath?

Originally Posted by DC Pointer

Do we really need more laws, more rules and more regulations?

We need more citizens who will observe boating regulations and report to authorities those not in compliance.

What we have instead are "civilians", if you get my drift.

[snowbird]

Makes as much sense as requiring a driver's license to fill up one's car.

[Airwaves]

APS...welcome back! You wrote:

Quote:

In my humble opinion, the boating certificate projects nothing about the competency of the skipper—only that he has a piece of plastic that indicates he may have passed a test by himself. (Or, tested on-line, may not have).

It would make more sense to attach a Breathalyzer™ to the pump, but that's not going to happen either.

...and...

If you were the citizen pump attendant, would you not report a skipper who staggers, has slurred speech, and alcohol on his breath?

We need more citizens who will observe boating regulations and report to authorities those not in compliance.

What we have instead are "civilians", if you get my drift.

What you are describing is a citizen/civilian making a complaint to the police, not a citizen/civilian ENFORCING a law. Big difference. If you want to enforce a law put a blue light on your boat and head on out there...see what happens and let us know when you get out of jail.

Of course I haven't heard that the NHMP has found non-compliance with the boating certificate law has been a problem. Another solution in search of a problem?

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

...
I haven't heard that the NHMP has found non-compliance with the boating certificate law has been a problem. Another solution in search of a problem?

Quite possibly something to be tabled until the situation deteriorates.