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Old 05-04-2021, 11:27 PM   #1
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Default Heck of a Mini Split Deal

I've been trying to figure out a cheaper way to heat my 3 season cottage. Didn't want to spend too much because we may rebuild it soon.

Was going to put in a gas direct vent stove but it got expensive and we were not sure how easy it was gonna be to move to the new house. The right size, color, type etc.

Then we were going for just a cheap direct vented wall heater.

Then I realized it might get real hot for a few weeks where we are now. We got away with no AC on the lake before but the house was in the shade by 4-5PM. This new house will be in the sun until almost sun down.

So then I started thinking about AC. Then I thought I should just get a mini split to do both. Not as great for heating but cheaper than baseboard electric we run now.
Correction: New Mini Splits are one of the cheapest forms of heating.

So after some research I found a heck of deal.

NH is giving rebates of $400.00 per ton for high efficiency mini splits. This (link below) is a 2 ton 24K BTU Mini Split (1 Zone). And Federal is giving a $300.00 rebate.

That's $1100.00 BACK on a $1400.00 mini Split.

What is cool is these can be DIY installed (assuming you are handy). They come PRECHARGED. You just hook them up, cross your fingers you have no leaks and you are done.

There is a catch, this unit claims no warranty if not installed by a Pro. I don't care. For $300.00 I'll take my chances.

Also Home Depot claims in must be installed by a Pro to get the NH rebate. But if you follow the link for the rebate, there is nothing about a Professional Install required that I could find. Also the unit below DOES qualify but home depot does not list this unit as qualifying (do your own homework if interested). It has to be a high SEER unit.

There is another brand called MRCool that does honor the DIY install warranty but they are not as high enough efficiency and they are priced higher to begin with. They might still qualify for rebates. See Amazon for these units.

You can see it gets great reviews on Home Depot.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ductless...1-H2/300696785

This is the same unit but 1.5 Ton and does show the $900 rebate on Home Depot (but you must set Zip Code to NH to see it). This is the one I actually got. I wanted it small enough so I can just use an existing baseboard 20 Amp 220 circuit to run it. The above unit is 25 or 30 amp. Same out of pocket price $300.00

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ductless...1-H2/300696557

I ordered it like last Friday and ready for pickup in Tilton now

This is the NH rebate site

https://frontdoor.portal.poweredbyef...program/nhehvc

Check out this link for the cost of various fuels.

https://www.efficiencymaine.com/at-h...st-comparison/

Last edited by mswlogo; 05-05-2021 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 05-05-2021, 05:19 AM   #2
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That IS a steal, especially since you can install it yourself (given the current state of contractor accessibility). Perhaps I should research heat pumps and swap out my AC only unit...

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Old 05-05-2021, 06:22 AM   #3
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Yes, very good deal. Big fan of mini splits. I have removed all of my electric baseboard heat and replaced with minis. Careful with the install yourself. Each unit does require its own watertight cutoff electrical box. Anywhere between 20amp and 40 amp.


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Old 05-05-2021, 06:33 AM   #4
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I did this last year. The rebate was not quite as generous as your numbers but still decent. There definitely was a place on the form to provide the name address and phone number of installer. If you haven’t spoken directly to the person who handles the rebates you may want to doubled check that number. I got back $750. Still a decent deal. Mine is Mitsubishi condenser and head. $2,200 for equipment.
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Old 05-05-2021, 06:55 AM   #5
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I recently renovated an old home. Looked into all the various options. Going in I was very much against the splits as I just didn't like the way they look on the wall. I found a few spots that would work where they did not look bad and I could not be happier. The price saved me a lot over other options. They are super efficient and I don't even notice them being there. Highly recommend. I never knew about the rebate though. Maybe I should look into that.
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Old 05-05-2021, 08:54 AM   #6
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Default Rebates

Quote:
Originally Posted by winterh View Post
I recently renovated an old home. Looked into all the various options. Going in I was very much against the splits as I just didn't like the way they look on the wall. I found a few spots that would work where they did not look bad and I could not be happier. The price saved me a lot over other options. They are super efficient and I don't even notice them being there. Highly recommend. I never knew about the rebate though. Maybe I should look into that.
Varies from year to year. A decade ago they were lucrative, about $1500 from NHSaves and $1500 from energy.gov. There was a spending cap so you need to apply early in the govt. fiscal year.
When talking to a number of owners who had install, many were not aware of the rebates and it was too late to apply. Some were taken advantage by the installers, they would apply and pocket the money!

It pays to do your homework when doing any install or upgrade involving energy appliances such as HVAC. Switching to split systems or NG gives you the best savings. I've seen builders/developers who would rather stick in a cheap oil furnace rather than hook up to NG when it's available or a split system. In today's market buyers have no say in the matter if they need a home.
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Old 05-05-2021, 08:55 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
I've been trying to figure out a cheaper way to heat my 3 season cottage. Didn't want to spend too much because we may rebuild it soon.

Was going to put in a gas direct vent stove but it got expensive and we were not sure how easy it was gonna be to move to the new house. The right size, color, type etc.

Then we were going for just a cheap direct vented wall heater.

Then I realized it might get real hot for a few weeks where we are now. We got away with no AC on the lake before but the house was in the shade by 4-5PM. This new house will be in the sun until almost sun down.

So then I started thinking about AC. Then I thought I should just get a mini split to do both. Not as great for heating but cheaper than baseboard electric we run now.

So after some research I found a heck of deal.

NH is giving rebates of $400.00 per ton for high efficiency mini splits. This (link below) is a 2 ton 24K BTU Mini Split (1 Zone). And Federal is giving a $300.00 rebate.

That's $1100.00 BACK on a $1400.00 mini Split.

What is cool is these can be DIY installed (assuming you are handy). They come PRECHARGED. You just hook them up, cross your fingers you have no leaks and you are done.

There is a catch, this unit claims no warranty if not installed by a Pro. I don't care. For $300.00 I'll take my chances.

Also Home Depot claims in must be installed by a Pro to get the NH rebate. But if you follow the link for the rebate, there is nothing about a Professional Install required that I could find. Also the unit below DOES qualify but home depot does not list this unit as qualifying (do your own homework if interested). It has to be a high SEER unit.

There is another brand called MRCool that does honor the DIY install warranty but they are not high enough efficiency for the rebates. And they are priced higher to begin with.

You can see it gets great reviews on Home Depot.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ductless...1-H2/300696785

This is the same unit but 1.5 Ton and does show the $900 rebate on Home Depot (but you must set Zip Code to NH to see it). This is the one I actually got. I wanted it small enough so I can just use an existing baseboard 20 Amp 220 circuit to run it. The above unit is 25 or 30 amp. Same out of pocket price $300.00

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ductless...1-H2/300696557

I ordered it like last Friday and ready for pickup in Tilton now

This is the NH rebate site

https://frontdoor.portal.poweredbyef...program/nhehvc
just keep in mind and many folks dont know this it cost more to run those units for heat than it does for ac. so if your main purpose it solely to heat your cottage the electric bills could be staggering.
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Old 05-05-2021, 09:12 AM   #8
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just keep in mind and many folks dont know this it cost more to run those units for heat than it does for ac. so if your main purpose it solely to heat your cottage the electric bills could be staggering.
I’m not sure how to compare cost to heat vs cool as they are very different, but the mini splits are generally much more efficient heating than electric heat or oil, which is why there is the push with rebates, etc. The a/c technology hasn’t changed all that much in decades; it is the advancements in the heat pump technology that is the real advancement and, in my view, the biggest advantage of the mini splits.

That said, my experience is limited to the Mitsubishi and Fujitsu mini splits with the “hyper heat” (ie low outside temperature) models, and am not familiar with this brand.
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Old 05-05-2021, 09:50 AM   #9
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just keep in mind and many folks dont know this it cost more to run those units for heat than it does for ac. so if your main purpose it solely to heat your cottage the electric bills could be staggering.
It won't be as staggering as electric baseboard heat I have now. According to my calculations for heating it will be about half what I'm paying now. Agreed, it will still be high. Just not as bad. But it might be ok to get by for now.

I may still add a propane heater.
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Old 05-05-2021, 10:18 AM   #10
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Default Wolfeboro electric

I had mini's installed last year and at that time was told by the installer that rebates were not available through Wolfeboro electric because they don't partner with any of the PUC members. I checked with W.E. and they confirmed that. They supply over Eversource lines but get the power generation from another source that they wouldn't disclose. Hmm.
Unfortunately, I missed out.
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Old 05-05-2021, 01:21 PM   #11
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There is an awesome Contractor located in Moultonborough - New England Climate Control. https://newenglandclimatecontrol.com/

Regarding DIY- look into Mr Cool DIY
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Old 05-05-2021, 02:17 PM   #12
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There is an awesome Contractor located in Moultonborough - New England Climate Control. https://newenglandclimatecontrol.com/

Regarding DIY- look into Mr Cool DIY
I had the MRCool in my "Amazon" cart ready to buy and the price jumped up. That's when I looked at Home Depot and then noticed the rebates on the Ductless Air.

MRCool might qualify, I didn't check. But they are slightly lower in efficiency.

MRCool 1.5 ton was $1900.00 and the the Ductless Air 1.5 ton is $1200.00.
Ductless air is higher efficiency and I know qualifies for rebates.
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Old 05-05-2021, 02:23 PM   #13
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I’m not sure how to compare cost to heat vs cool as they are very different, but the mini splits are generally much more efficient heating than electric heat or oil, which is why there is the push with rebates, etc. The a/c technology hasn’t changed all that much in decades; it is the advancements in the heat pump technology that is the real advancement and, in my view, the biggest advantage of the mini splits.

That said, my experience is limited to the Mitsubishi and Fujitsu mini splits with the “hyper heat” (ie low outside temperature) models, and am not familiar with this brand.
Mini Splits are good, for electric. But Oil and Propane is still cheaper to run.

Order of cost to run

Wood
Oil
Propane
HeatPump
Electric BaseBoard

But I may end up with Solar eventually. Then that puts HeatPump back up on top.
Or if you have electricity way cheaper than Eversource.
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Old 05-05-2021, 04:51 PM   #14
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Mini Splits are good, for electric. But Oil and Propane is still cheaper to run.
Have to disagree from experience on the heat pump vs. oil. We have oil hydronic baseboards in our house, and put the mini splits in mainly for the A/C, which was lacking. But we use them almost exclusively in the winter for heat and leave the oil baseboards off, unless it gets really cold (around 10 degrees or lower). We save well over a hundred dollars a month (more in the coldest months) compared to oil, after factoring in the additional electric. We also find them more comfortable than the baseboards that turn on and off, as they keep the temperature much more constant.

The “hyper heat” heat pumps they have out now go down to about 20 or 25 degrees outside at 100% efficiency, and only start to drop from there (to about 75% at 15 below zero).
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Old 05-05-2021, 05:50 PM   #15
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Have to disagree from experience on the heat pump vs. oil. We have oil hydronic baseboards in our house, and put the mini splits in mainly for the A/C, which was lacking. But we use them almost exclusively in the winter for heat and leave the oil baseboards off, unless it gets really cold (around 10 degrees or lower). We save well over a hundred dollars a month (more in the coldest months) compared to oil, after factoring in the additional electric. We also find them more comfortable than the baseboards that turn on and off, as they keep the temperature much more constant.

The “hyper heat” heat pumps they have out now go down to about 20 or 25 degrees outside at 100% efficiency, and only start to drop from there (to about 75% at 15 below zero).
I stand corrected. Heat pumps (variable speed mini splits) are better than I thought.

I did a calculation based on how many BTU's per watt my baseboard produces and how many the HeatPump should produce per watt and I came up with cost to run as being half.

My sister has a Heat Pump in MA (not a ductless mini split). She pays a fortune for fuel for a small Condo. Electric rates are much higher MA ($0.26 kWh).

But the claims for the Mini Splits cost to run are 1/3 cost of electric baseboard. But they said things like "up to 1/3". Problem is as temps go down they do get less efficient. So I rounded it to costing 1/2.

But according to this data from Maine (see link below), they are close to 1/4 over electric baseboard for an entire season. And oil is more expensive than I thought.

We used 200 gallons of oil a year in NH (new 2x6 construction very well insulated). That is heated through winter. But we didn't use it too much in Winter.

We have natural gas in MA and pay $645 for the entire year. Super insulated and 96% efficient system. That's kept at 70F all winter.

I paid $500.00 for 2 weeks of electric baseboard in our new place in NH. Very Small and poorly insulated.

This table is nice. The default electric rates are close to NH which is $0.17/kWh

So based on the above experience I really didn't expect to see ductless mini splits so cheap to operate vs almost anything. Even with above average electric rates in NH.
In MA, Electricity is so expensive that Natural Gas is cheaper than a Mini Split and about equal with a Oil Furnace.

https://www.efficiencymaine.com/at-h...st-comparison/

Thanks for the correction. Glad I went with the mini split.

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Old 05-05-2021, 06:02 PM   #16
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I did this last year. The rebate was not quite as generous as your numbers but still decent. There definitely was a place on the form to provide the name address and phone number of installer. If you haven’t spoken directly to the person who handles the rebates you may want to doubled check that number. I got back $750. Still a decent deal. Mine is Mitsubishi condenser and head. $2,200 for equipment.
Actually it was $500 per ton in 2019. Not sure on 2020.

If you could point out where it said to state installer I'd appreciate it.
I'd still go for it even if I didn't get the rebate. Or I might find an installer willing to sign off for an "inspection fee".

I just don't see it on this form. In fact it asks you to choose "Individual or Company". In the very first section. I'll just choose individual and see what happens. I think it's a generic form for more than just mini splits.

https://frontdoor.portal.poweredbyef...program/nhehvc
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Old 05-05-2021, 08:15 PM   #17
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I have oil/forced hot water and it cost me about $500 a winter to heat my 1700 sq ft home. I keep the heat at 50 all winter and when we go up I burn wood. I find when oil was below $200 a gallon there's not much out there that's cheaper but above that other fuels get competitive. I'm paying $2.35 right now but it was up to $2.65 this past winter.

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Old 05-05-2021, 08:57 PM   #18
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Coincidentally, I just did the math on my electric bill for the past 12 months, and I fell off the chair at how much I'm saving with mini splits, solar and an electric car combo. Over the past year, I have spent only $1,100 to heat and light a 3000 sq ft house, and power the car. This stuff is like an ATM
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Old 05-05-2021, 09:25 PM   #19
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Might be a good idea to seek a known brand.
Maybe a dealer that has been around for awhile.
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Old 05-06-2021, 05:34 AM   #20
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Actually it was $500 per ton in 2019. Not sure on 2020.

If you could point out where it said to state installer I'd appreciate it.
I'd still go for it even if I didn't get the rebate. Or I might find an installer willing to sign off for an "inspection fee".

I just don't see it on this form. In fact it asks you to choose "Individual or Company". In the very first section. I'll just choose individual and see what happens. I think it's a generic form for more than just mini splits.

https://frontdoor.portal.poweredbyef...program/nhehvc
That is a different form for sure. must have changed.
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Old 05-06-2021, 07:54 AM   #21
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Have to disagree from experience on the heat pump vs. oil. We have oil hydronic baseboards in our house, and put the mini splits in mainly for the A/C, which was lacking. But we use them almost exclusively in the winter for heat and leave the oil baseboards off, unless it gets really cold (around 10 degrees or lower). We save well over a hundred dollars a month (more in the coldest months) compared to oil, after factoring in the additional electric. We also find them more comfortable than the baseboards that turn on and off, as they keep the temperature much more constant.

The “hyper heat” heat pumps they have out now go down to about 20 or 25 degrees outside at 100% efficiency, and only start to drop from there (to about 75% at 15 below zero).
Oil hydronic baseboards are electric heat using the oil to balance and hold the heat generated from electricity. The “oil” heat people are talking about here is heat from an oil fired boiler or furnace.

I am a mini split owner in MA (unfortunately purchased prior to “hyper heat”). I use them for a majority of heat during spring/late winter, fall/early winter and shut them down in the real cold months. Over the past 5 years we have saved several hundred $ a year when comparing oil + electric costs to previous years.


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Old 05-06-2021, 08:20 AM   #22
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Oil hydronic baseboards are electric heat using the oil to balance and hold the heat generated from electricity. The “oil” heat people are talking about here is heat from an oil fired boiler or furnace.
Oil fired hydronic baseboard heat refers to an oil-fired boiler that heats water, and the water is circulated to baseboard style radiators. Not sure what type of oil/electric heat this refers to, but “hydronic” means circulated water.
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Old 05-06-2021, 09:43 AM   #23
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Oil fired hydronic baseboard heat refers to an oil-fired boiler that heats water, and the water is circulated to baseboard style radiators. Not sure what type of oil/electric heat this refers to, but “hydronic” means circulated water.
It actually covers both, but I knew what you meant.

I usually call it Force Hot Water or Forced Hot Air (oil or gas) furnace.
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Old 05-07-2021, 08:08 AM   #24
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Default Hydronic baseboard heat

I converted my old gas boiler and separate hot water heater to a condensing on-demand combination boiler. Gas usage was cut almost in half! Of course there are rebates on condensing boilers if it is on the energy.gov list.
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Old 05-22-2021, 08:38 AM   #25
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Mswlogo I was wondering how the install went? With the rebates it is very tempting, we are pretty handy diyers and are considering either purchasing and getting help installing or doing it ourselves.
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Old 05-22-2021, 10:09 AM   #26
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Many of my solar customers will follow up our work with the addition of air sourced heat pumps and as Flying Scot has pointed out it is a perfect combination. Most of my clients had their systems professionally installed but a few decided to DYI and their results were mixed. One did get his system working after quite a bit of fussing, and the other had to call in a professional to get his working. Installing the fixtures and running the linesets between the pump and handlers can be a bit of a challenge but is usually do-able if you have the time, handyman abilities, and patience. Getting them totally pressure tight and being able to draw the necessary vacuum however can be a real challenge that requires the kind of knowledge and specialized tools that only specialized installers have. My recommendation based on what I have seen would be to have always a professional like Austin Maher in Moultonboro install your mini-split.
There are now however totally self contained and sealed heat pump units that look very much like a rollaround air conditioner and they work very well. I'm sure that the SEER rating isn't anywhere near as impressive as a top of the line full on mini-split but all you need to do is take them out of the shipping box and plug them in ...Done!
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Old 05-23-2021, 09:51 AM   #27
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It won't be as staggering as electric baseboard heat I have now. According to my calculations for heating it will be about half what I'm paying now. Agreed, it will still be high. Just not as bad. But it might be ok to get by for now.

I may still add a propane heater.
yes i should clarify both of mine have the Hyper heat in the Mitsubishi brand and to heat my game is off the chart Ac is much less in cost and the entire room is spray foamed. i was getting 4-500 a month in electric bills. much higher in heating cost than ac. as far as electric baseboard cant help you analyze that cost. good luck .
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Old 05-25-2021, 12:42 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by uschisk View Post
Mswlogo I was wondering how the install went? With the rebates it is very tempting, we are pretty handy diyers and are considering either purchasing and getting help installing or doing it ourselves.
It's installed but not fired up yet. I'll post a bit more detail when it's running. But there is one last step I didn't have the right tool for (adapter). So it should be running this weekend I hope.

Basically you have to pump the lines dry. The MrCool mini splits come (optionally) with lines that are prepurged with quick connects. And MrCool charges an extra $300 for them. They are the only company that sell it that way. Without the prepurged lines you have a few choices. There is a cheap solution called Kwik-e-vac. It's basically a small can of nitrogen (kind of like fix-a-flat) for $30.00. Or you can buy a cheap pump $70 and a vac gauge. You pump it down and just let it sit. Still cheaper than buying the purged lines set. And if you have a leak you can fix it. I ordered BOTH to be extra sure (that's what some pro's would routinely do, flush with nitrogen then pump).

I take any project like this as an opportunity it learn something even if I break even on doing it myself vs paying someone.

What you have to be careful is, it will probably "work" no matter what you do. The question is how long will it "work" If you screw up, the system is contaminated and will deteriorate quickly.

So money wise. It was $1200.00 with $900 rebate for 18K BTU (or $1400 with $1100 rebate for 24K BTU). Plus you either spend $300 on the upgraded MrCool version or buy the tools to purge it ($50 to $300 depending on how picky you want to be). Note also all these non "Big name" units are all the SAME unit. The DuctlessAire unit I got is EXACTLY the same as the MrCool.

I have a wrap around covered porch and under the deck is open and covered with lattice. I decided to put the outdoor unit under that deck. It was either a brilliant idea or a really stupid one, not sure which yet. You can't stand up under that deck (approx 4ft).

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Old 05-25-2021, 02:39 PM   #29
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It's installed but not fired up yet. I'll post a bit more detail when it's running. But there is one last step I didn't have the right tool for (adapter). So it should be running this weekend I hope.

Basically you have to pump the lines dry. The MrCool mini splits come (optionally) with lines that are prepurged with quick connects. And MrCool charges an extra $300 for them. They are the only company that sell it that way. Without the prepurged lines you have a few choices. There is a cheap solution called Kwik-e-vac. It's basically a small can of nitrogen (kind of like fix-a-flat) for $30.00. Or you can buy a cheap pump $70 and a vac gauge. You pump it down and just let it sit. Still cheaper than buying the purged lines set. And if you have a leak you can fix it. I ordered BOTH to be extra sure (that's what some pro's would routinely do, flush with nitrogen then pump).

I take any project like this as an opportunity it learn something even if I break even on doing it myself vs paying someone.

What you have to be careful is, it will probably "work" no matter what you do. The question is how long will it "work" If you screw up, the system is contaminated and will deteriorate quickly.

So money wise. It was $1200.00 with $900 rebate for 18K BTU (or $1400 with $1100 rebate for 24K BTU). Plus you either spend $300 on the upgraded MrCool version or buy the tools to purge it ($50 to $300 depending on how picky you want to be). Note also all these non "Big name" units are all the SAME unit. The Ductless Air unit I got is EXACTLY the same as the MrCool.

I have a wrap around covered porch and under the deck is open and covered with lattice. I decided to put the outdoor unit under that deck. It was either a brilliant idea or a really stupid one, not sure which yet. You can't stand up under that deck (approx 4ft).
Any chance you have the height and width dimensions handy? I can't seem to locate them on HD's website. I currently have an old wall mounted A/C that could use an upgrade...along with offsetting my electric baseboard heat. Seems like a perfect opportunity here. Also looks like the price has come down on the 24k version. Thanks!
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Old 05-25-2021, 03:55 PM   #30
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Any chance you have the height and width dimensions handy? I can't seem to locate them on HD's website. I currently have an old wall mounted A/C that could use an upgrade...along with offsetting my electric baseboard heat. Seems like a perfect opportunity here. Also looks like the price has come down on the 24k version. Thanks!
Yeah, it looks like they all came down like 10%. Crazy. I'm gonna check if Home Depot will do a price guarantee thing. $135 cheaper !! That brings the cost of the unit to $165 !! after rebates. PLUS Evac Tools as mentioned above !!

Here is the link direct to the 24K Ductlessaire and it shows dimensions. I have the 18K unit.

https://ductlessaire.com/catalog/240...t-pump-system/
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Old 05-31-2021, 06:14 PM   #31
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Update:

Overall it's working fantastic. Super quiet and I can tell it's super efficient already. It's been pulling a measly 500 watts. And very even heat.

Called Home Depot and they instantly credited the Price difference, so the unit cost me $165.00 (after rebates, NH rebate already submitted). They are out of stock on the 18K unit.

Unit is working perfect. Weeks ago, I thought it was gonna be in a race to get A/C going because it was getting pretty hot. But I've had the heat running all this weekend with it and it's been flawless.

Wireless works great, can control from anywhere and it even has a Freeze Protect mode that will keep the house above 40F.

I still need to dress the outside with a "Hide" kit for lines coming down. I mounted the outdoor unit on 4 patio blocks.

Now, if I had a fancy house, I'm not sure I'd get this unit. It's no Mitsubishi. But I'm not sure I'd even get any mini split if I had a fancy nice house. Even though the unit is exceptionally quiet, it's not silent. It is quieter than my old Force Hot Air system in MA. But it not as quiet as my super efficient Force Hot Air (and AC) that I replaced it with. But for a 3 season cottage it's perfect.

I'm a detailed person that likes to share what I learned. Don't freak out over the length or the dumb mistakes. You get to learn from my goof ups which were not that bad. I have no regrets doing this myself. I bought a few more things than needed and not used that I plan to return.

Some tips for installing:

Directions were pretty horrible.

1) Warning, the wall unit is PRESSURIZED (probably nitrogen). You could see this special white cap with a red button on the line that hinted at it. Kind of like the Pop out Turkey Thermometers. I pressed the end expecting it might release it and it didn't. So I started to unscrew it. I could hear gas coming out slowly. I was thinking it was not that much pressure (and probably wasn't). But rather than let it leak out slow I unscrewed it all the way. Big mistake. What a loud pop. My ears were literally ringing. That was a dumb move. Nothing about it in manual, no warning tag and no mention in Videos I watched.

2) They don't give a template for the wall unit. Just measurements in a itty bitty diagram. Probably 2-3" in size. And really poor references of where to measure off where you are gonna drill the 2.5" hole. So I mounted the unit temporary on the wall (not fully snapped in). I was way off where I marked the wall. I made a stupid math error adding instead of subtracting measurements off the diagram. I re-taped the louver and cover on before I lifted the unit off the wall bracket and as I did the unit "snapped in" to place. No problem I'll just unsnap it. It would not budge. Look in the manual on how to release, nothing. Look for videos nothing. I pull and pull thinking it's just a friction thing. Ok, now I'm starting to lose it. One side released the other side bent the wall bracket. After that I see how to release it, there are two holes on the bottom and you have to hook the plastic and pull down while pulling unit away. I took a picture. It was easy bending bracket back.

3) Remarked the 2.5" hole and drilled it (no test mount this time). I used foil tape (love this stuff) to tape the flange to the tube and the tube to the inside wall. So it was all real tight and firm. Snap the unit on while feeding lines through wall. It was snug where the hole was relative to where lines came out.

4) Now to run copper "twin line". The hole through the exterior wall comes out to a wrap around covered porch. Under the porch is dirt and stone and sloping up to where the line has to go through the porch floor. I get it all in place and the line connections from wall unit are staggered by like 2". But the Twin line connections are side by side. So I put a big gentle S in one twin line to take up the slack. A pro would cut the line and re-flare it. No way I could match the machined flares. So I roll the other end out and I have about 2 rotations left and I see the connections are staggered by 2". Smack on the forehead. Nothing is marked or tagged or mentioned in the manual. Pull the whole thing out (on my belly in musty dirt mind you). I get it out and unroll the last two turns. Guess what, the fittings were even again (they were staggered because of the coiling). Double smack on the head.

5) Get it all laid out and wrench tight all the lines. On the web they recommend Nylog. I think many folks use it wrong. The idea is you want the flare nut to slide on the back of the copper flare so that lines don't twist as you tighten them. I think that's where you should lube it. Many folks put it on the mating surface. That can cause the line to twist when you tighten it down. I saw one line twist some out of the 4 and I took my chances dry. I didn't have the NyLog when I cranked them down.

6) Now ready for the pump down. I bought a pump kit that stated Refrigerant 410A compatible. The fitting you needed was the wrong thread. Had to order another one.

7) They wanted you to crimp on lugs on the wires between wall and base unit. I tried two types and just could not get them to fit. So just ended up using the bare wire. I think it's fine. There is only 3A max on the wall unit.

7a) The twin copper line is 25ft. And the wall unit has like 3ft lead copper tubing so you have 28ft. But the wire is only 24ft !!

8) The electrical cover on the outdoor unit is TWO pieces and they installed the self sticky gasket across the two pieces. Morons. The gasket belongs stuck to the main unit and you install half the bracket to the unit, attach water proof connectors to that, then the final cover (i.e. one half at a time). I shredded the gasket trying to salvage it. I know they screwed up. Thinking they saved time in assembly in factory but not understanding the order things have to go together. Good thing my unit is out of the weather. Easy fix if it needs to be water tight.

9) After looking at the gauges I received with the pump and the wrong thread adapter. I watched a couple more Videos. And realized the manifold gauges were useless for evacuation (although some people use them, incorrectly). So I bought a really nice vacuum gauge (Testo, used on Amazon Warehouse). The correct adapter. Nylog (just in case) and a KWik-E-VAc (partly as backup). And a leak detector. I never used these last 3 pieces.

So I start the pump down with the nice gauge and correct adapter. The correct adapter has a thumb screw on it to control the Schrader valve on the main unit. You turn that in so it's open (two way). And start pumping. It was below 500 microns in 20 minutes. Manual states below 500 for 30 min. It was down to 172 microns in 40 minutes and plateaued so I let it pump for 20 minutes at that level.

Now I want to leak check. Oh Crap. I don't have a valve between the pump and the vacuum gauge. If you shut the pump off it will let air back in. Then I tried closing the Schrader, disconnect pump, cap meter and open Schrader. Even if I lost some vacuum I thought I could still check if it's rising. Didn't work. I was at 10,000 micron when I opened the Schrader back up (depressed pin with knob). Pumped it down for 1 hr again. Then it hit me why that didn't work, because the Schrader will let high pressure IN. But then I realized a simple trick, all I have to do is close the Schrader (pin not depressed) with pump running, wait 10 minutes or so and then open it up (push Schrader pin in). If there is a leak in the system the gauge will rise (because air could get sucked in through a leak in the system, higher pressure). There was no leak !! Not found in any videos or in the manual. I used to program controlling very high vacuum systems.

Also note, I probably would never have reached 172 microns in the first place if I had any leak.

I was so confident that the system was tight and evacuated I decided to not use the KWIK-E-VAC because that required opening a connection (the one that I saw twist when I wrench it down). It was risky untwisting and then potentially twisting it again. If I had it to do over again I might have used KWIK-E-VAC first. I'd never want to use KWIK-E-VAC alone (Which is what it claims you can do).

Now here is another clever part. Not in the manual nor in any videos. You leave the pump RUNNING. If you shut the pump off you'll let air in. Even if you close the Schrader (not depress the pin) and remove the pump you will still let air in. The Schrader let's higher pressure in NOT out when the pin is not pushed. When the pin is pushed it's two way open. So you leave pump running (after pump down) and close the Schrader valve (pin NOT depressed). Both sides are equal pressure (assuming no leaks). This is the same state as the leak test above. Now the moment of truth. You open the refrigerant valve. That puts POSITIVE pressure on the system side. But positive pressure can't get through the Schrader (that's the whole reason the Schrader valve is there). Now you can turn off the pump and remove lines. Never let any air in or refrigerant out.

One mistake I might have made, and I bet many pros do too. Many of these systems have small heaters in them to keep the compressor oil warm. Warm enough to "boil off" the refrigerant that can condense in the oil. That can ruin the compressor. I should have powered up, but NOT RUN it for 24 hr's to be safe. But I forgot. There is no mention of this in the manual. But they do hint to KEEP THE UNIT POWERED if you plan to use it in the winter, which is a hint that it has a "safety" heater in it. It has nothing to do with keeping oil viscous or anything. It's to stop refrigerant from condensing in the oil. I figured this out by examining all watts being used in my home and noticed my A/C was using fair amount of watts when idle, in the winter. Most modern A/C's have this.

It's kind of neat having it under the porch.





This is the valve you need with the thumb wheel to control the Schrader valve. You do not need a Schrader removal tool.
Do not get a straight adapter, you either will leak air in or refrigerant out if you use a straight adapter (which pushes Schrader as you screw it on).



This is all you need, a pump, a vacuum meter (this is a rather fancy one) and that valve. You can leak check too.
But how do you find a leak? Here is a trick I learned at work. If you have a leak mist water on each connection. If pressure shoots up, that's where your leak is





This is where they messed up the gasket. Half the cover is mounted holding the lines. Then you put on the final cover. But the two pieces were "glued" together with the gasket. Gasket should have been put on the unit (which I tried to piece onto it and failed).



You can see the far side has foil tape on the inside. I also foil taped it to the wall (picture is before I did that).


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Old 05-31-2021, 07:30 PM   #32
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Congratulations on your success. I have had to turn my mini split heat on over the past few days. No baseboard or wood stove as they have been summarized. Clean and quiet.


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Old 05-31-2021, 08:54 PM   #33
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I just looked up the 24K BTU unit.

Home Depot now shows $1300.00 in rebates
The unit cost $1250.00 right now, they pay you $50.00 to buy it !!

The NH rebates just went up to $500/ton.
EDIT: Just checked NHSAVES and it still shows $400/ton but Home Depot shows $500/ton

I hope we get the new rebate amount The deal is better every time I look.

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Old 05-31-2021, 10:31 PM   #34
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MSWlogo: This is great info. Thanks for the detailed posts. There was mention of MrCool (Home Depot brand?) vs Mitsubishi. Is there a difference in efficiency or other? Years ago I was more handy than now. At this point, I would hire out the installation. It seems like HD has teams that will install most anything they sell. Correct? Did you investigate this vs an independent plumber? Or electrician? Some other trade?
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Old 05-31-2021, 11:12 PM   #35
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MSWlogo: This is great info. Thanks for the detailed posts. There was mention of MrCool (Home Depot brand?) vs Mitsubishi. Is there a difference in efficiency or other? Years ago I was more handy than now. At this point, I would hire out the installation. It seems like HD has teams that will install most anything they sell. Correct? Did you investigate this vs an independent plumber? Or electrician? Some other trade?
Warning. I'm very opinionated on this sort of thing

I didn't look at Mitsubishi. I know they would be thousand's and must be installed by a dealer. Efficiency wise I suspect they are close. Long term reliability my guess is Mitsubishi would probably way out last these units, more serviceable, easy to get parts etc. But you never know. If I were building a new house and wanted mini splits, that's probably what I'd do. You'd still of course qualify for all the rebates. But it's not gonna cover 100%

Only difference with MRCool is they sell pre-evacuated lines for $300.00 extra so you don't need a pump, vacuum gauge, and valve and learn how to use them. You plug them in like you do your propane tank on your grill.

I just took a peek. A comparable single zone 24K BTU 21 SEER Heat/Cool Mitsubishi is $2600.00. Plus installation. My guess is they would charge min $1000 to install (wild guess). Technically you'd need an Electrician and an HVAC dealer. Not sure if many HVAC installers are qualified to install the circuit, they might be.

I'm sure the Mitsubishi would be higher quality. But keep in mind. What lot of reputable companies do, to compete, is the buy the same low end non branded stuff from China and slap their label on it. Like if you buy a John Deer riding lawn mower at Home Depot. That's not a "Deere". It's the exact same unit as the MTD, Crasftman, Yardman painted different colors. But they will get the job done. Mitsubishi might be doing that on their "low end" models. Not sure. Just be aware of that, often you'll see different warranties on the low end vs high end.

One way to tell is, Mitsubishi can now handle really extreme low temps, like -20F. The unit I got can go down to 5F. If it's rated to -20F or similar, it's probably the real deal and worth the extra cost in the long run. I'm out of here when it drops into the low 20's.

Also keep in mind that Home Depot just finds local guys to install stuff. It's not like they have a certified team. Didn't see mention of installs. But it's a bit of crap shoot of Big Box store installers. But I'm sure they would back it if you go that route (get the extended warranty ) You probably won't over pay though if you went through Home Depot vs if you go to someone directly they might rob you blind.

For example, I just had a well installed. It was quoted $8-$12k. It ended up costing me more like $20k+ (with some MINOR upgrades). A neighbor (next lot over) saw them and asked for a quote. $30k !!! And $15K for water filtration system. That is robbery. They are one of the most popular well drillers in the area. Oh and they also didn't know what they were doing and I had to reconfigure the controller to match what they actually installed.
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Old 06-01-2021, 11:57 PM   #36
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Just got the rebate check from NHSAVES.

It was mailed from the next town over where I live in MA.
From Southborough, MA
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Old 06-02-2021, 08:37 AM   #37
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Warning. I'm very opinionated on this sort of thing

I didn't look at Mitsubishi. I know they would be thousand's and must be installed by a dealer. Efficiency wise I suspect they are close. Long term reliability my guess is Mitsubishi would probably way out last these units, more serviceable, easy to get parts etc. But you never know. If I were building a new house and wanted mini splits, that's probably what I'd do. You'd still of course qualify for all the rebates. But it's not gonna cover 100%

Only difference with MRCool is they sell pre-evacuated lines for $300.00 extra so you don't need a pump, vacuum gauge, and valve and learn how to use them. You plug them in like you do your propane tank on your grill.

I just took a peek. A comparable single zone 24K BTU 21 SEER Heat/Cool Mitsubishi is $2600.00. Plus installation. My guess is they would charge min $1000 to install (wild guess). Technically you'd need an Electrician and an HVAC dealer. Not sure if many HVAC installers are qualified to install the circuit, they might be.

I'm sure the Mitsubishi would be higher quality. But keep in mind. What lot of reputable companies do, to compete, is the buy the same low end non branded stuff from China and slap their label on it. Like if you buy a John Deer riding lawn mower at Home Depot. That's not a "Deere". It's the exact same unit as the MTD, Crasftman, Yardman painted different colors. But they will get the job done. Mitsubishi might be doing that on their "low end" models. Not sure. Just be aware of that, often you'll see different warranties on the low end vs high end.

One way to tell is, Mitsubishi can now handle really extreme low temps, like -20F. The unit I got can go down to 5F. If it's rated to -20F or similar, it's probably the real deal and worth the extra cost in the long run. I'm out of here when it drops into the low 20's.

Also keep in mind that Home Depot just finds local guys to install stuff. It's not like they have a certified team. Didn't see mention of installs. But it's a bit of crap shoot of Big Box store installers. But I'm sure they would back it if you go that route (get the extended warranty ) You probably won't over pay though if you went through Home Depot vs if you go to someone directly they might rob you blind.

For example, I just had a well installed. It was quoted $8-$12k. It ended up costing me more like $20k+ (with some MINOR upgrades). A neighbor (next lot over) saw them and asked for a quote. $30k !!! And $15K for water filtration system. That is robbery. They are one of the most popular well drillers in the area. Oh and they also didn't know what they were doing and I had to reconfigure the controller to match what they actually installed.
I went the Mitsubishi route. It did cost more, the installation was flawless, & I got the rebate check in the mail. The unit is amazing and doesn’t hurt my NHEC bill in both winter & summer. You do get what you pay for in some instances.

We used Home Energy Products in Belmont. They were able to snake the wires/tubes through the walls and basement so I don’t have that off-color plastic pipe DIY look all of the exterior of my home.

To me, it’s an eye sore when you have bright white plastic pipe cover for the mini-split pipes & wires running at funky angles all over your houses exterior. You tell yourself that you’ll match the color with paint one day, but you never do.

The 12 year “bumper to bumper” warranty was also a selling point.

My 2 ¢
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Old 06-02-2021, 09:54 AM   #38
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A buddy of mine in Rumney had HEP install a Mitsubishi in his ranch. He said they did a great job and it works flawlessly in summer and winter.

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Old 06-02-2021, 12:00 PM   #39
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Thanks everybody for a lot of great info. I've had one estimate from Al Terry Plumbing & Heating. They do Mitsubishi. I like the long term warranty and efficiency to -20F. Waiting for another estimate. Anybody have experience with Al Terry?
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Old 06-02-2021, 02:07 PM   #40
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Thanks everybody for a lot of great info. I've had one estimate from Al Terry Plumbing & Heating. They do Mitsubishi. I like the long term warranty and efficiency to -20F. Waiting for another estimate. Anybody have experience with Al Terry?
Curious what you are getting for quotes.
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Old 06-02-2021, 04:30 PM   #41
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I went the Mitsubishi route. It did cost more, the installation was flawless, & I got the rebate check in the mail. The unit is amazing and doesn’t hurt my NHEC bill in both winter & summer. You do get what you pay for in some instances.

We used Home Energy Products in Belmont. They were able to snake the wires/tubes through the walls and basement so I don’t have that off-color plastic pipe DIY look all of the exterior of my home.

To me, it’s an eye sore when you have bright white plastic pipe cover for the mini-split pipes & wires running at funky angles all over your houses exterior. You tell yourself that you’ll match the color with paint one day, but you never do.

The 12 year “bumper to bumper” warranty was also a selling point.

My 2 ¢
I think the outdoor unit is an "eye sore" you can't even see mine

I don't have that suburb residential look of an A/C unit around the "lake house"

With all the money I saved, I can afford to pay the real estate tax bill
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Old 06-02-2021, 05:24 PM   #42
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I think the outdoor unit is an "eye sore" you can't even see mine

I don't have that suburb residential look of an A/C unit around the "lake house"

With all the money I saved, I can afford to pay the real estate tax bill
My condenser is out of the way; you’d never know we had one….. and my lake house is missing a lake. I just like the clean look of the installation.. that’s the point I was making. Sorry it’s not up to par with your rustic shanty town motif.
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Old 06-02-2021, 08:30 PM   #43
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Thanks everybody for a lot of great info. I've had one estimate from Al Terry Plumbing & Heating. They do Mitsubishi. I like the long term warranty and efficiency to -20F. Waiting for another estimate. Anybody have experience with Al Terry?
Al Terry installed a Mitsubishi system for us last spring and did a great job. The run to one of the units was long and complex and they worked out a good approach. Three interior units in total. Installation took about 2 1/2 days, but again one run was pretty long and involved. They coordinated electrical work.

Our primary use was for the A/C and we’ve been very happy with the system. I’m still surprised at how quiet both interior and the exterior base unit are.
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Old 06-02-2021, 09:06 PM   #44
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My condenser is out of the way; you’d never know we had one….. and my lake house is missing a lake. I just like the clean look of the installation.. that’s the point I was making. Sorry it’s not up to par with your rustic shanty town motif.
Just had to pull your leg after the DIY dig . I'm pretty happy with my choice for this appliccation as you are with yours.

Like I said, if I had a nice house AND wanted mini splits, I'd probably go with Mitsubishi and pay the highway robbery prices companies charge to install them.

Anyone getting quotes. Have them itemize the cost of the hardware and the labor. Bet you they won't give it to you. That's, because it would show how they are over charging you on both the hardware and the labor.
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Old 06-02-2021, 09:06 PM   #45
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Al Terry installed a Mitsubishi system for us last spring and did a great job. The run to one of the units was long and complex and they worked out a good approach. Three interior units in total. Installation took about 2 1/2 days, but again one run was pretty long and involved. They coordinated electrical work.

Our primary use was for the A/C and we’ve been very happy with the system. I’m still surprised at how quiet both interior and the exterior base unit are.
That's good to hear. Tank you very much. What happened with rebates?
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Old 06-03-2021, 08:24 PM   #46
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That's good to hear. Tank you very much. What happened with rebates?
The system was eligible (can’t recall the $$) but the application was initially rejected saying the units didn’t qualify. Contacted the salesman who was just as surprised. He contacted whatever organization oversees them and got it squared away.
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Old 06-08-2021, 02:57 PM   #47
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I really didn't expect to fully test the new mini split for heating and cooling in the matter of a little over a week. But here we are.

But man, I sure was glad to have the A/C the past couple days, especially when doing work from home. Man it sure is tight on the watts.

Surprising how cool the nights still were with such hot days and we only ran the A/C in the peak heat of the day. The breeze off the water pretty nice the past few days. As long as you were relaxing in the shade it wasn't to bad.

Hope we get back to a bit of rain in the pattern so we don't end up like last year.
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Old 06-08-2021, 04:44 PM   #48
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Must say we do get mini spilt spoiled. Drops the bedroom down to 66 for sleeping while the second floor hallway remains in the 80’s


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