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Old 01-29-2021, 12:52 PM   #1
NH.Solar
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Default NHEC utility rate going down on Feb 1

A little good news for all of you Co-op customers. The new combined rate per kWh on Feb 1 will be reduced to 14.5 cents.
I wish I could say the the savings was all due entirely to their large solar field on Moulotonboro Neck Road, but I suspect it is in truth due to the decreased demand for fossil fuels due to the effects of Covid and travel restrictions. Still good news!
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Old 01-30-2021, 11:46 AM   #2
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Considering that NHEC's breakdown of energy sources lists solar as 0.31% of what they supply so I'd say it's a big no that array did much of anything other than cost a whole lot of money.

So with nearly 60% of NHEC power coming from coal, oil and natural gas it stands to reason that shutting down these industries is a fantastic idea and will do wonders for electric rates in the near future.
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Old 01-30-2021, 11:56 AM   #3
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Coal has been dying a slow death for years now. There's no saving it and I don't think anyone should even try.
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Old 01-30-2021, 12:13 PM   #4
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Coal currently represents 3.09% of supply sources from NHEC.

Natural Gas really is the most plentiful and cheapest solution right now. It is currently providing 43% of supply. Of course that is subject to change radically here very soon. Green New Deal in some form is coming soon, that will do wonders for your electric rates, gas prices and everything else!

Good thing I guess is if gas hits $4+ bucks a gallon that will cut down on boat traffic big time.
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Old 01-30-2021, 12:27 PM   #5
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Default NHEC utility rate going down on Feb 1

I have no doubt that coal is very polluting, but if you think that electric rates are going down in the long run, you are drinking too much of the Lefts cool-aid. They are very open with their plan to drastically raise the electric rates so renewables can compete. Look at the carbon initiative which plans on continually raising the rates on fossil fuel as a way of putting them out of business.
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Old 01-30-2021, 12:32 PM   #6
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Coal currently represents 3.09% of supply sources from NHEC.

Natural Gas really is the most plentiful and cheapest solution right now. It is currently providing 43% of supply. Of course that is subject to change radically here very soon. Green New Deal in some form is coming soon, that will do wonders for your electric rates, gas prices and everything else!

Good thing I guess is if gas hits $4+ bucks a gallon that will cut down on boat traffic big time.
I have not heard about Biden initiatives that would increase fuel prices (although I would not be surprised or against them).

But it is easy to see Biden initiatives that can reduce everybody's cost of electricity, such as efficiency mandates and the recent extension of the 26% tax credit for solar. The economics of solar are great, as NH Solar has posted. The panels on my Mass house are saving me a bundle.

For people who might be interested in solar, your local installer can give you an estimate of how much you might save with just your address and a recent electric bill.
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Old 01-30-2021, 03:48 PM   #7
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Economics may be great because the government has to subsidize them with tax credits to start with and take a perfectly clean and plentiful energy source in natural gas, and outlaw it.

The solution, go buy solar panels whos very manufacturing process and composition is filled with toxic materials. Perfect!

No thanks I'll pass, probably do more just by being conservative with use versus seeking out these alternative solutions.
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Old 01-30-2021, 04:14 PM   #8
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Economics may be great because the government has to subsidize them with tax credits to start with and take a perfectly clean and plentiful energy source in natural gas, and outlaw it.

The solution, go buy solar panels whos very manufacturing process and composition is filled with toxic materials. Perfect!

No thanks I'll pass, probably do more just by being conservative with use versus seeking out these alternative solutions.
It's better to give out tax breaks to get them started than just handing over money to a dying coal industry to try and keep them afloat. That's like trying to keep an old rotted out wooden boat afloat!
I don't think they will be outlawing natural gas or oil in my lifetime. Just another scare tactic by big oil and gas companies and the politicians they have in their pockets.

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Old 01-30-2021, 08:48 PM   #9
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Annnnnnd once more people drive electric, and use less fossil fuel to tax and pay for roads,, guess what? Tax folks who use electricity... So you end up paying for it either way.

Use gas, lower electric bill by giving the $ at the pump.
Use electric, higher electric bill and they will tax us on the lack of fuel we buy to cover road maint.

Either way, we pay.
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Old 01-31-2021, 11:17 AM   #10
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Annnnnnd once more people drive electric, and use less fossil fuel to tax and pay for roads,, guess what? Tax folks who use electricity... So you end up paying for it either way.

Use gas, lower electric bill by giving the $ at the pump.
Use electric, higher electric bill and they will tax us on the lack of fuel we buy to cover road maint.

Either way, we pay.
Like Green Eggs and Ham, it seems opinions on electric cars are split.

There's a group of people who have EVs who love them for their performance, economics, and/or environmental benefits.

There's a group that has never had one, doesn't really know the specifics or numbers, and thinks of all sorts of problems.

The one group that does not exist in any significant number is people who have EVs and do not like them.

"Try them, try them, you will see..."
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Old 01-31-2021, 11:41 AM   #11
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Like Green Eggs and Ham, it seems opinions on electric cars are split.

There's a group of people who have EVs who love them for their performance, economics, and/or environmental benefits.

There's a group that has never had one, doesn't really know the specifics or numbers, and thinks of all sorts of problems.

The one group that does not exist in any significant number is people who have EVs and do not like them.

"Try them, try them, you will see..."
I'm open to an electric vehicle, but the access to, and logistics of, just keep me from looking. What could replace my 4Runner in terms of utility/comfort/reliability is unclear as are the costs and how I'd need to retrofit my garage and camp for power. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, is how it would fit into my life. I drive 20k+/year, often going back and forth to the lake and taking road trips, so where and how to charge is a real concern.

All of this is thrown out the window by simply pulling up to one of the thousands of gas stations.

That being said, a hybrid could potentially solve these, too, but with the increased complexity of two systems.

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Old 01-31-2021, 01:20 PM   #12
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I wonder how many years it will take for a majority of the gas stations to close or go out of business in light of the fact that most auto producing companies will have switched over to electric vehicle production by 2035.....

Will gasoline be hard to actually obtain 25 or 30 years from now in light of the speeding electric technology being implemented everywhere...... Who will need it and who will use it? I can see Boats, Airplanes, and Heavy road and construction equipment needing gasoline, but what else?
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Old 01-31-2021, 01:54 PM   #13
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Default The only thing constant is change

Its hard to find the neighborhood livery stable or harness maker anymore, and blacksmiths for your horses's shoes are also rare!

As the world changes / evolves, new businesses are created (EV charging stations, solar panels) and old disappear (wagon and harness makers, gasoline filling stations).
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Old 01-31-2021, 03:26 PM   #14
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I have not heard about Biden initiatives that would increase fuel prices (although I would not be surprised or against them).

But it is easy to see Biden initiatives that can reduce everybody's cost of electricity, such as efficiency mandates and the recent extension of the 26% tax credit for solar. The economics of solar are great, as NH Solar has posted. The panels on my Mass house are saving me a bundle.

For people who might be interested in solar, your local installer can give you an estimate of how much you might save with just your address and a recent electric bill.

You are the first to throw down the political "Biden" card. Give it a rest already.
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Old 01-31-2021, 07:33 PM   #15
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I have a Chevy Volt that I bought just over a year ago and I could not be more pleased by it. Formerly I needed to drive my Duramax in winter and it was costly! The truck was expensive to buy, expensive to maintain, and expensive to fuel. Don't get me wrong, I love the beast and it is a true luxury workhorse. The solar business is naturally a bit slower during the winter months, but still Im an avid skier and would rack up 150-200 miles a week running to Cannon or Demoulas. Now I do that in my fully loaded Volt and it saves me well over $200 a month in fuel cost and zeros my carbon footprint because it is fueled by more small roof solar array. Yes, as Maxum points out there is some carbon cost in manufacturing solar panels, but they are warrantied for twenty five years and will no doubt outl live me. Without the Solar array and the Volt I would have been refueling the GMC with diesel at least one a week, what is the carbon cost on that?
In response to Flying Scott's original post, the average payback on a simple roof mounted the net cost of a solar installation runs between 8-10 years right now, but there are two very important elements that are missed in the simple math (net system cost x utility rate x anticipated solar production). First the funds that formerly were being spent on the monthly expense of a utility bill are now diverted to the purchase of the asset of the solar system, and there is no doubt that the solar system has added significant value to the home you own. Second, from that point forward no fossil fuel will be consumed, nor will any pollutants be issued for the power you enjoy.
With the forecast I'll no doubt be making the drive from New Hampton to Cannon at least 4 times this week, and all told I might use up 5 gallons of gas in the Volt (it runs a generator when the battery runs out). Was the solar and Volt a bit expensive? yes, but I no longer think about my energy consumption nor do I worry about any future fuel crisis. Still I do generally have a small Co-op bill during some of the later winter months so hearing that they have dropped the rate, even if it is actually just a blip, is great news!
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Old 01-31-2021, 09:04 PM   #16
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I have a Chevy Volt that I bought just over a year ago and I could not be more pleased by it. Formerly I needed to drive my Duramax in winter and it was costly! The truck was expensive to buy, expensive to maintain, and expensive to fuel. Don't get me wrong, I love the beast and it is a true luxury workhorse. The solar business is naturally a bit slower during the winter months, but still Im an avid skier and would rack up 150-200 miles a week running to Cannon or Demoulas. Now I do that in my fully loaded Volt and it saves me well over $200 a month in fuel cost and zeros my carbon footprint because it is fueled by more small roof solar array. Yes, as Maxum points out there is some carbon cost in manufacturing solar panels, but they are warrantied for twenty five years and will no doubt outl live me. Without the Solar array and the Volt I would have been refueling the GMC with diesel at least one a week, what is the carbon cost on that?
In response to Flying Scott's original post, the average payback on a simple roof mounted the net cost of a solar installation runs between 8-10 years right now, but there are two very important elements that are missed in the simple math (net system cost x utility rate x anticipated solar production). First the funds that formerly were being spent on the monthly expense of a utility bill are now diverted to the purchase of the asset of the solar system, and there is no doubt that the solar system has added significant value to the home you own. Second, from that point forward no fossil fuel will be consumed, nor will any pollutants be issued for the power you enjoy.
With the forecast I'll no doubt be making the drive from New Hampton to Cannon at least 4 times this week, and all told I might use up 5 gallons of gas in the Volt (it runs a generator when the battery runs out). Was the solar and Volt a bit expensive? yes, but I no longer think about my energy consumption nor do I worry about any future fuel crisis. Still I do generally have a small Co-op bill during some of the later winter months so hearing that they have dropped the rate, even if it is actually just a blip, is great news!
Ok, but WHY were you driving a Duramax if a Volt would suffice?!

And how would a similar gas car that gets 35-40 MPG compare overall in costs?

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Old 01-31-2021, 09:48 PM   #17
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When I need to move my mini-excavator or haul some materials in my 14,000 pound capacity dump trailer the Duramax is the perfect vehicle,
but when I just need to haul my butt and some skis or groceries, the EV is the right choice. Best part about the Volt is that normally it is fueled freely and cleanly off my roof and I don't care about mpg. during shorter trips I enjoy using the ample power of acceleration whenever the road is open simply because I can cost free. But if I want to go to Sunday River for a few days I'll be at the Maine border before I run out of charge and the backup gas generator motor starts. Once the Gen motor has taken over I still average better than 40+ mpg. I bought the car coming in off a lease with 23,000 on it and it had a combined average of 76 mpg on it. I have nearly doubled that mileage over the past year, and because I frequently force start the gen motor for quicker heat during the winter I have since dropped the average to nearer to 72 ...but that average will no doubt climb again come Spring because I won't be using the generator motor for quick heat, plus the battery range is a little longer during the warmer months. Don't forget that due to my solar array I don't pay for the electric part of that combined mileage.
Some will quite correctly say, "well , how much did that solar array cost?" and that is a very good point. I don't however look at the cost of my solar array as an expense, but rather as a very productive asset that I have added to the value of my house. If the Co-op rate never changes, the ~$13K net that I put into the solar array will justify its cost through utility bill savings in about 9nine years, and from that point forward the power coming off the roof will be entirely free of cost ...and the asset value of the array will still be a part of my home's value.
Running the Duramax is pure frequent and unrelenting expense, but when it comes to hauling the occasional heavy loads, it is a superb machine. For daily commuting purposes I would much rather incur the lifespan cost of relatively inexpensive Volt to the very costly Duramax. I am not driven by the need to have a shiny late model truck and thus hope to be able to keep that very capable work monster for the rest of my life (it gets oil undercoated every other year). Both vehicles have a very appropriate use and place.
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Old 01-31-2021, 09:50 PM   #18
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I'm open to an electric vehicle, but the access to, and logistics of, just keep me from looking. What could replace my 4Runner in terms of utility/comfort/reliability is unclear as are the costs and how I'd need to retrofit my garage and camp for power. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, is how it would fit into my life. I drive 20k+/year, often going back and forth to the lake and taking road trips, so where and how to charge is a real concern.

All of this is thrown out the window by simply pulling up to one of the thousands of gas stations.

That being said, a hybrid could potentially solve these, too, but with the increased complexity of two systems.

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Yes--you would need to add a charger or two. Any electrician can go this, indoors or out, cost is about $2K.

One thing that is not well known is that Tesla has a huge Supercharger Network--these chargers add >300 miles of range to your car per hour. Obviously, this is slower than gas, but you need to stop for gas weekly, and you'll only to charge on the road a few times a year. I use them when I drive to NY. Check out the map--they are plentiful along any highway trip.

https://www.tesla.com/findus?bounds=...tion%20charger
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Old 01-31-2021, 10:07 PM   #19
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Yes--you would need to add a charger or two. Any electrician can go this, indoors or out, cost is about $2K.

One thing that is not well known is that Tesla has a huge Supercharger Network--these chargers add >300 miles of range to your car per hour. Obviously, this is slower than gas, but you need to stop for gas weekly, and you'll only to charge on the road a few times a year. I use them when I drive to NY. Check out the map--they are plentiful along any highway trip.

https://www.tesla.com/findus?bounds=...tion%20charger
I don't always use the 3rd row, but with kids we need to have it. The only Tesla with a 3rd row is the X? At $80k plus the charging stuff for my house, I can buy two 4Runners and have $10k to waste on fuel and maintenance over, what's the lifetime of two 4Runners, 25 years?

I mean, I'd be willing to go a little over for the initial investment if I made much/most of it back over the lifetime of the vehicle, but it's just not there yet.

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Old 01-31-2021, 10:08 PM   #20
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You are the first to throw down the political "Biden" card. Give it a rest already.
If I respond to another poster's reference to Democratic policies by citing Biden, I am not the first, I am just responding. Furthermore, I was asking him for more info. You should give it a rest
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Old 01-31-2021, 10:14 PM   #21
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I don't always use the 3rd row, but with kids we need to have it. The only Tesla with a 3rd row is the X? At $80k plus the charging stuff for my house, I can buy two 4Runners and have $10k to waste on fuel and maintenance over, what's the lifetime of two 4Runners, 25 years?

I mean, I'd be willing to go a little over for the initial investment if I made much/most of it back over the lifetime of the vehicle, but it's just not there yet.

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Yes, agreed that Tesla X is wicked expensive, as is the S. The models with economics comparable to gas engines are the 3 and Y. But I recognize that does not help if you need a truck.

Let's hope Tesla (and GM!) are able to bring the prices down even further
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Old 02-01-2021, 01:29 AM   #22
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I would like to have an electric car. However at this point it would need to be an "extra" for driving around town. Even with the taxpayer subsidies on the purchase price, I'm not wanting to spend that kind of money. Certainly, as time goes on, electric vehicles of all kinds will become cheaper, faster to charge, and much more numerous. I saw an AP article just today indicating that moving to electric vehicles would eliminate many autoworker jobs, as electric cars are much simple to construct with many fewer parts. Also, the batteries are largely built by robots.

One question is: Will the electric grid support the extra load of charging 100 million cars every day? I believe the answer is: Not even close. California can't even run their air conditioners on a hot day and they refuse the environmental cost of more power lines. Since you can't truck in electricity, does NH want to double the number of power lines running through the state?

Once the gas stations are gone, gasoline will be sold in hardware stores, probably around $20+ / gallon. It will eventually become as hard to find as kerosene.

The big question in the Northeast will be how to survive during a major power outage without any transportation? A propane generator won't put much of a charge in a battery. And of course, all the emergency and maintenance vehicles will be electric too.
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:46 PM   #23
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Default More good news from the Co-op!

In addition to last month's rate drop, the NHEC has just announced in the February member newsletter that they will be holding steady on both their transmission charges and the membership fee (aka meter fee) for the coming year. This is significant because increases in the meter fees and/or transmission fees are a method often used by the utility companies in lieu of rate increases. Utility costs increase by roughly 2-3% a year on average but are sometimes reflected by the meter fees rather than rate increases and thus go unnoticed. To get the last two months news from the Co-op is truly a treat.
The internet rates shown in the newsletter look good too and I'll be looking forward to the day they run service my way...
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