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Old 05-31-2020, 06:13 AM   #1
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Default The Dive Braun Bay Lawsuit

A Moultonborough couple have filed a civil suit against the Dive and its owners, Elizabeth Sullivan and Jamison Merriam. East Coast Flightcraft Inc. is also named as a defendant in the legal action, which was filed in Carroll Superior Court on May 20.

The suit asks the court to order the Dive to cease their activities in Braun Bay that are alleged to be violations of New Hampshire’s water management and protection laws. All this attention may prompt the Marine Patrol to be more present in Braun Bay this season and put more focus on rafting violations.

I bet East Coast Flightcraft is not thrilled about getting drawn in on this lawsuit.

This will just make it more burdensome financially for the Dive to succeed. The owners of the Dive are using Attorney William Woodbury of Laconia to represent them. I have used him several times in the past and he is an excellent and very intelligent lawyer. This case should be interesting to follow.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...bacc4de64.html
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Old 05-31-2020, 06:59 AM   #2
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This seems like a thin case—I was expecting to see something about pollution, spills, etc.

Though I've been vocal about not liking the Dive, it's not responsible for the crowds or broken rules over there, for sure, and I'd need to know more about the spuds to know if that's even an issue.

I will say I'm surprised it took this long for a landowner to bring a suit—I thought for sure the people at WAM sandbar would've been the ones to.

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Old 05-31-2020, 07:35 AM   #3
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I’ve never been to Braun Bay and after seeing the photo from the Sun there isn’t a chance in a billion that I ever will. That is utterly insane. Has it always been like that? I feel bad for the people who live there.
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:38 AM   #4
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I think it started back in the 80s after many boaters were dropping anchor in front of private property in the Kona Farm area . It’s just gotten worse and worse. I don’t know how it has been allowed to get this out of control, to be honest. I understand that people that do not own lakefront are looking for someplace to go. I don’t know what the answer is but I certainly would not want that in front of my home.
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:04 AM   #5
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I think it started back in the 80s after many boaters were dropping anchor in front of private property in the Kona Farm area . It’s just gotten worse and worse. I don’t know how it has been allowed to get this out of control, to be honest. I understand that people that do not own lakefront are looking for someplace to go. I don’t know what the answer is but I certainly would not want that in front of my home.
I get upset when one boat anchors off our place. I can’t imagine what I’d do if that flotilla showed up. I’d probably sell although I imagine that would be difficult. I think the property owners are suing the wrong party. I’d go after the state (if that’s even possible). The Dive is doing what it is allowed to do. They need to fix that.
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:18 AM   #6
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I’ve never been to Braun Bay and after seeing the photo from the Sun there isn’t a chance in a billion that I ever will. That is utterly insane. Has it always been like that? I feel bad for the people who live there.
I don't know about always but it has been this way for at least 15 years or so. good luck in enforcing a change.
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:22 AM   #7
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I’ve never been to Braun Bay and after seeing the photo from the Sun there isn’t a chance in a billion that I ever will. That is utterly insane. Has it always been like that? I feel bad for the people who live there.
It's the "me" generation and their assumption that it's their god given, right to party wherever and whenever they choose. Look at the demographic of the majority of the Braun Bay partiers and you'll find that 75% is of the late teen through the 20's age group.
Are there older generations there as well? Of course, as the idea of anchoring in a quiet, sandy area is very appealing to most everyone.
Do the younger ones take advantage? of course they do because that's what they do. Just take a look at any "spring break" crowd...
I went there once (in my 60's) and that was enough for me.
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Old 05-31-2020, 01:02 PM   #8
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If the article accurately portrays the lawsuit issues.... then it is a frivolous lawsuit at best!

Braun Bay has been the 'hotspot" sandbar forever... Its a great place to hang out! These people are clearly NIMBY property owners!

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Old 05-31-2020, 02:19 PM   #9
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I get upset when one boat anchors off our place. I can’t imagine what I’d do if that flotilla showed up. I’d probably sell although I imagine that would be difficult. I think the property owners are suing the wrong party. I’d go after the state (if that’s even possible). The Dive is doing what it is allowed to do. They need to fix that.
I'm in complete agreement with you but if they aren't breaking any laws there's not much you can do. Some people think a business enterprise should over step private property owners. When you buy on Winni you take that risk of being over run by weekend boaters.

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Old 05-31-2020, 03:38 PM   #10
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I think two hundred of us should go to Woodsy's house and have a party in front of his house.
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Old 05-31-2020, 04:40 PM   #11
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I think two hundred of us should go to Woodsy's house and have a party in front of his house.
Every summer weekend...

But for real, I agree more with Woodsy than the person above who said he gets mad if one person anchors in front of his place.

The water is owned by everyone and homeowners need to accept that when buying—especially those who buy in front of a sandbar or other popular place.

That being said, there's a balance to be had both ways in terms of respect.

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Old 05-31-2020, 07:12 PM   #12
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Every summer weekend...

But for real, I agree more with Woodsy than the person above who said he gets mad if one person anchors in front of his place.

The water is owned by everyone and homeowners need to accept that when buying—especially those who buy in front of a sandbar or other popular place.

That being said, there's a balance to be had both ways in terms of respect.

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I think it depends on the person. If the boat is well-mannered, I agree that they should be welcomed with a smile.

But personal sentiments aside, I'm surprised that you think it's in any way OK for the scene in that photo--it's completely out of balance.
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Old 05-31-2020, 07:21 PM   #13
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I think it depends on the person. If the boat is well-mannered, I agree that they should be welcomed with a smile.

But personal sentiments aside, I'm surprised that you think it's in any way OK for the scene in that photo--it's completely out of balance.
I didn't say I was ok with that scene. I said there's a balance to be had in terms of respect—people who anchor in front of homes and people who own those homes.

Like anything, there's a saturation point—one of my consistent complaints about the Dive was that they stretched that point...especially in regards to using WAM sandbar almost exclusively. As someone who enjoyed going there, I was annoyed at how often my experience was tainted by its presence and can totally understand how others, including the homeowners there, were too.

A question about Braun Bay, though—where are the houses on that side?! I can't see any when anchored out over there.

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Old 05-31-2020, 07:55 PM   #14
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Every summer weekend...

But for real, I agree more with Woodsy than the person above who said he gets mad if one person anchors in front of his place.

The water is owned by everyone and homeowners need to accept that when buying—especially those who buy in front of a sandbar or other popular place.

That being said, there's a balance to be had both ways in terms of respect.

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You mean like the guy who anchored in front of my place and then wizzed off the transom. That kind of sets the tone for my attitude.
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:04 PM   #15
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You mean like the guy who anchored in front of my place and then wizzed off the transom. That kind of sets the tone for my attitude.
A guy let his dog crap in my yard at home the other day. I don't get angry at every dog walker. I get angry with guys who let their dogs crap in my yard.

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Old 06-01-2020, 05:56 AM   #16
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You mean like the guy who anchored in front of my place and then wizzed off the transom. That kind of sets the tone for my attitude.
It happens all the time.
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:05 AM   #17
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Every summer weekend...

But for real, I agree more with Woodsy than the person above who said he gets mad if one person anchors in front of his place.

The water is owned by everyone and homeowners need to accept that when buying—especially those who buy in front of a sandbar or other popular place.

That being said, there's a balance to be had both ways in terms of respect.

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I remember back in the 1960s when no one knew about that Sandbar in Braun Bay. It seems to me that people just found it by accident and started going there as people were looking for a place to anchor that was not in front of someone else’s house. It started out with just a handful of boats and I don’t think anyone could have anticipated that it would get so huge.
At some point, was this designated as a public sandbar? I don’t remember anything ever being said about it.

I’m sure that at least some of the homes that have to put up with this congestion have been there long before this became a destination.
I certainly agree that anyone purchasing a home on the lake now needs to do their due diligence. But many of those homeowners have been there for a long time.
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:14 AM   #18
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Are the only homes across the way?

Name:  Screenshot_20200601-080941_Maps.jpg
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:20 AM   #19
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Are the only homes across the way?Attachment 16071

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Yes. The land behind the sandbar is state park land and cannot be developed, so the homes are on the other side.
I think some of the original homeowners thought that they would be extremely private because of the state park being there.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:07 AM   #20
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For those of you who aren't in the know...

That picture was taken on a Saturday during July 4th weekend. Arguably the busiest weekend on the lake.

All pretty much all of the boats to the right of the Dive in that picture are anchored in deep water outside of the NRZ and not subject to the NRZ rules.

Braun Bay is usually crowded on a nice Saturday... but this day was an exception not the rule.

The Spuds the Dive uses to position itself are just heavy steel beams that drop vertically onto the lake bottom... they do no damage.

Property owners do not own the waterfront... Lake Winni is essentially a State Park and the State owns to the high water mark. As long as a person doesn't block access to your dock, there is nothing a property owner can do if people start congregating. If people complain enough, the State may do something about Braun... but be careful what you wish for! The unintended consequence could be a pile of boats off of your property!

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Old 06-01-2020, 09:17 AM   #21
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Funny thing about that pic.
Most of Those boats are not there because of The Dive being there.
The Dive is there because those boats are there.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:25 AM   #22
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Funny thing about that pic.
Most of Those boats are not there because of The Dive being there.
The Dive is there because those boats are there.
Yup! Here's Braun Bay before the dive was even on the water....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBWUdoVP-W8

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Old 06-01-2020, 09:31 AM   #23
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Yup! Here's Braun Bay before the dive was even on the water....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBWUdoVP-W8

Dan
Nice video - thanks Dan.

I can't believe the horror that these people are creating by having fun. Everyone looks well behaved, no sign of any trash in the water, etc. Also no sign of anyone looting anything, burning anything, stealing anything, beating anyone or throwing rocks, bottles and trash cans at anyone.... Amazing.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:33 AM   #24
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It seems to me that this is always going to be a struggle between the boaters who want to be there and the homeowners who don’t want them to be.

I wonder if the state should buy those homes and the affected homeowners could then move someplace else. This has gone from just a few boats to hundreds of boats on the busiest day and I anticipate that it will continue to increase.

And I mentioned this one time before, it seems that the state could do something to develop that state park land and maybe even have access from Moultonborough Neck Road(by car). Some picnic tables and some toilets and places to get rid of all your trash would make it a welcome change.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:38 AM   #25
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Nice video - thanks Dan.

I can't believe the horror that these people are creating by having fun. Everyone looks well behaved, no sign of any trash in the water, etc. Also no sign of anyone looting anything, burning anything, stealing anything, beating anyone or throwing rocks, bottles and trash cans at anyone.... Amazing.
We don't go to Braun Bay all that much—maybe 3-4 times a summer—but we've never had an issue with behavior or trash, etc. and I have two kids that make me a bit more...critical of that stuff.

We usually choose WAM over BB because it traditionally has been a bit less rowdy, but no big deal. Really, if being honest about it, we choose WAM almost always when it's also a perfect day for Pop's.

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Old 06-01-2020, 09:42 AM   #26
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It seems to me that this is always going to be a struggle between the boaters who want to be there and the homeowners who don’t want them to be.
Just curious...who said the homeowners there were even complaining? Braun Bay has been a gathering spot for boaters for years and years. I don't know of any homeowner in that area who is complaining....

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Old 06-01-2020, 09:45 AM   #27
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ishoot...

It appears to be a Braun Bay homeowner suing the Dive in the LASun article...

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Old 06-01-2020, 09:47 AM   #28
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ishoot...

It appears to be a Braun Bay homeowner suing the Dive in the LASun article...

Woodsy
Ahhh!....OK gotchya! I stand corrected!...

Didn't realize it was someone from Braun Bay!

Thanks for the clarification!

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Old 06-01-2020, 10:46 AM   #29
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Our family likes to go to Braun Bay because the water is very warm to swim in! My grandkids tell me it reminds them of their community pool - like swimming in a bathtub!
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:52 AM   #30
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Boaters all over the country love to congregate on sandbars. We never hear of significant problems. There will always be folks who begrudge others enjoying themselves. In the mean time, are there other Dives out there? Think of the Dive down south, operating year round. Another FITN for NH when there is a Dive franchise and our NH entrepreneurs own 200 Dives. I think converting one of those 80 foot houseboats would be a quick way to expand.
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Old 06-01-2020, 01:06 PM   #31
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This will be interesting to watch as there are adverse implications to this lawsuit. In particular the use of spuds to "anchor" a barge which many of the island service businesses and waterfront construction companies use. This method of anchoring has been employed for many years and not exclusive to the Dive's operation.

One would think if this practice was detrimental to the lake in anyway that is significant this would have been addressed long ago.

While I can understand the abutters not liking what goes on in Braun Bay, this area has been a long time attraction for ALL boaters on the lake, not just day boaters or weekend warriors, but folks that own waterfront as well. This is not the first or last time complaints will occur that's for sure. Seems to me filing a lawsuit against the business is not intended to address the "congregation" issue, but rather to affect the business itself negatively. If the Dive is in fact causing a massive congregation of boats and as such infers the current laws are being broken this is an enforcement problem that needs to be addressed by the MP.

The business itself is not responsible for what it has no control over. Rafting, number of boats, boat spacing, crowds, noise from boats etc.... are not the responsibility of the Dive. They have neither the right nor authority to enforce any of this thus cannot be held liable or responsible for it IMHO. That would be no different than somebody suing the Harley dealership in Meredith for illegal behavior that occurs during motorcycle weekend.

Unfortunately in today's litigious society a person with deep enough pockets can stick it to another - in this case possibly put the Dive out of business just by forcing them to defend themselves against a bogus lawsuit. Judging by the size and scope of many of these private waterfront residences it seems that many have the wherewithal to possibly sue somebody into oblivion irrespective of the lawsuit's merit.

I am not particularly a fan of the Dive, however they have every right to operate their business so long as they are operating within the confines of the law to which they must adhere to.

As the lake is used more and more there will continue to be conflicts in the way people perceive it's use to be regulated. Those with the deepest pockets will likely get their way in the end. Sad but true.
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Old 06-01-2020, 01:26 PM   #32
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This will be interesting to watch as there are adverse implications to this lawsuit. In particular the use of spuds to "anchor" a barge which many of the island service businesses and waterfront construction companies use. This method of anchoring has been employed for many years and not exclusive to the Dive's operation.

One would think if this practice was detrimental to the lake in anyway that is significant this would have been addressed long ago.

While I can understand the abutters not liking what goes on in Braun Bay, this area has been a long time attraction for ALL boaters on the lake, not just day boaters or weekend warriors, but folks that own waterfront as well. This is not the first or last time complaints will occur that's for sure. Seems to me filing a lawsuit against the business is not intended to address the "congregation" issue, but rather to affect the business itself negatively. If the Dive is in fact causing a massive congregation of boats and as such infers the current laws are being broken this is an enforcement problem that needs to be addressed by the MP.

The business itself is not responsible for what it has no control over. Rafting, number of boats, boat spacing, crowds, noise from boats etc.... are not the responsibility of the Dive. They have neither the right nor authority to enforce any of this thus cannot be held liable or responsible for it IMHO. That would be no different than somebody suing the Harley dealership in Meredith for illegal behavior that occurs during motorcycle weekend.

Unfortunately in today's litigious society a person with deep enough pockets can stick it to another - in this case possibly put the Dive out of business just by forcing them to defend themselves against a bogus lawsuit. Judging by the size and scope of many of these private waterfront residences it seems that many have the wherewithal to possibly sue somebody into oblivion irrespective of the lawsuit's merit.

I am not particularly a fan of the Dive, however they have every right to operate their business so long as they are operating within the confines of the law to which they must adhere to.

As the lake is used more and more there will continue to be conflicts in the way people perceive it's use to be regulated. Those with the deepest pockets will likely get their way in the end. Sad but true.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the "lawsuit to put the Dive out of business," which is why I said above I'm surprised it took so long.

I once used the comparison of a hot dog stand in a state park and how people wouldn't take to it kindly—a look at local hiking Facebook pages these last few months will show just how protective hikers are of natural spaces—and the Dive is no different. Instead of coming in with a "we're gonna move around to reduce our impact" attitude, they came in with a "we have the right to be here" and "look how many people like us" one.

People who own homes in places like that are clearly willing to fight...with $$$.

I don't agree with the lawsuit, but I get it.

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Old 06-01-2020, 01:31 PM   #33
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I can posit two ways to discourage rafting within the seeming bounds of the law.

1) Have water quality tests done from samples on busy summer days: if e coli or other nasty things exceed permissible amounts seek to forbid rafting there as a health hazard.

2) This is a stretch: somehow convince the powers that be to dredge or allow abutting landowners to dredge BB to remove the sandbar, thus ending the attraction.
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Old 06-01-2020, 01:59 PM   #34
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I think it started back in the 80s after many boaters were dropping anchor in front of private property in the Kona Farm area . It’s just gotten worse and worse. I don’t know how it has been allowed to get this out of control, to be honest. I understand that people that do not own lakefront are looking for someplace to go. I don’t know what the answer is but I certainly would not want that in front of my home.
To be fair, its not in front of anyone's home. The homes are on the opposite side of the bay. The sandbar is adjacent to vacant land.
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Old 06-01-2020, 01:59 PM   #35
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Our family likes to go to Braun Bay because the water is very warm to swim in! My grandkids tell me it reminds them of their community pool - like swimming in a bathtub!
And we all know why it appears “warmer” then other parts of the lake. Same here on Winnisquam, the sand bar is the only salt water area on the lake!


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Old 06-01-2020, 02:10 PM   #36
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I anchor alot, with friends. There are 2 different coves we have anchored where we were complimented by shore front homeowners for being respectful and we were welcome back anytime. Just last weekend we were welcomed anytime. There are shore front homeowners who are ok with it if you are respectful. We have also run into some who are not even though no noise, no trash, no loud music, leave plenty of space. When we get that attitude we just tell them to pound sand. One owner was angry enough to do donuts around our boats in his boat then threatened to call marine patrol, we said bring it and offered to call ourselves. Marine patrol showed and set the homeowner straight.
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:26 PM   #37
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I always laugh when people complain about anchoring and rafting on Winni. its paradise compared to other areas around the country. Take a look at Lake of the Ozarks for one. It was just in the news because of the partying and COVID -19.
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:47 PM   #38
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Default History of the lake

During the '50s, 60's, 70's, boaters and shorefront owners have lived in harmony. This was before the status quo decides to build McMansions and call the lake their property. At the same time, the boat population exploded the Southies took over the land. So the story goes.

My family has been on The Broads since 1892. We never had issues with neighbors and boaters. Sure they raft or anchor out front. It is their privilege. Never had an issue as it is a way of life on the lake.

Now the cottages in my 'hood are torn down for McMansions. The owners decided the annual 'hood get together is a pita and call the cops. They even call the MP when we want to waterski out front! We can't even kayak along the shore we have to go out several hundred feet! The 'hood turned to trash.

I'm happy to move to Lake Winnisquam where everything is back to normal less stressful. The good old days. It's too bad Winnepesaukee became a status symbol.

I still have a big boat on 'pesaukee. Only cruise during the week and off-season when the seasonal folks are gone.
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Old 06-01-2020, 03:47 PM   #39
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Well, it is only 500-600 feet from the sandbar to the populated side of the bay, but I can't see a case as long as the rafting laws are followed. People have heavily used BB for many years. Luckily when I was looking for a house the real estate agent made sure to tell me about the West Alton sandbar when I asked about a house on Sleepers directly across from it. I didn't even look at the house after that. I don't mind people near my house until they play music loud enough to interrupt my peace. Screaming kids too I guess. I'm old and a little grumpy.
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Old 06-01-2020, 04:09 PM   #40
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I have mixed feelings about the lawsuit. It's not right that one person should be able to beat another into submission simply based on size of pocketbook to fund lawyers.

But if you believe the Dive is bad for the lake, and you believe that current laws are being broken, such as limits on rafting, this is a way to force the issue. I'm pretty sure that the Dive, or any plaintiff, can ask the judge to toss the suit immediately if it truly has no basis in law.
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Old 06-01-2020, 05:54 PM   #41
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Because of the activity around the Dive, Peters and Consales allege that their property has lost $64,000 in value, according to the suit.

Hmm that'll be a little difficult to prove in court when you figure on their property the.....

Town assessment 2017 = $583,300
Town assessment 2018 = $597,900 +$14,000
Town assessment 2019 = $634,100 +$36,200

Oops! not a strong argument to have.

Good luck holding the Dive responsible for the what happens there regarding boating laws. Unless they have been deputized by the MP - they have zero authority or culpability.
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Old 06-02-2020, 10:21 AM   #42
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It's the "me" generation
While there are certainly young people hanging out there, last time we were in BB (admittedly 4 years ago), the average age of the boat owners appeared to be about 50.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:06 AM   #43
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Boaters all over the country love to congregate on sandbars. We never hear of significant problems. There will always be folks who begrudge others enjoying themselves. In the mean time, are there other Dives out there? Think of the Dive down south, operating year round. Another FITN for NH when there is a Dive franchise and our NH entrepreneurs own 200 Dives. I think converting one of those 80 foot houseboats would be a quick way to expand.
Check out the WILLY T in BVI. Its a pirate looking sailing vessel that serves drinks in a bay off one of the islands. It used to be Norman Is. I don't remember if they had food. The original burned or sunk and a new one was built. The first time I went you could jump off the top deck into the water naked and females only would get a free T-shirt. That stopped for awhile after some one was injured. The second time I went back a couple people jumped off the top deck naked but no T-shirts are given out anymore. I don't know if there are any other DIVE like barges in the US. I would be surprised if there wasn't at least one other somewhere.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:24 AM   #44
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While there are certainly young people hanging out there, last time we were in BB (admittedly 4 years ago), the average age of the boat owners appeared to be about 50.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this—I was there the other day, and the place was monopolized by midlife crisis dudes flanked by college girls.

In fact, as I was idling out, I stopped to talk to a father and his son about it and the son's answer was, "I can't compete with a wake boat"!

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Old 06-02-2020, 01:09 PM   #45
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Check out the WILLY T in BVI. Its a pirate looking sailing vessel that serves drinks in a bay off one of the islands. It used to be Norman Is. I don't remember if they had food. The original burned or sunk and a new one was built. The first time I went you could jump off the top deck into the water naked and females only would get a free T-shirt. That stopped for awhile after some one was injured. The second time I went back a couple people jumped off the top deck naked but no T-shirts are given out anymore. I don't know if there are any other DIVE like barges in the US. I would be surprised if there wasn't at least one other somewhere.
The Willy T. does serve food. Fun place. We usually end up at the Soggy though.
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:13 PM   #46
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I am not even going to read the article about the lawsuit with the Dive. Why ECFC is even mentioned in bogling, and I am sure they will get out of it very quickly as the Dive is their own independent entity, and ECFC only tie, is that they rent them dock space.... With that said.

Braun Bay has been the spot to go since the 80s, probably even the 70s. It got extremely crowded in the 90s and laws where put into place to stop the large rafts that where being formed. (BTW I don't agree with this) By far the biggest crowds at Braun Bay over the 4th of July holiday. I never go over there on the weekends because it is generally a younger rowdier crowd. But on a week day I have several times, it is a nice place to anchor get in the water and relax.

Since the 80s the home owners across for the sand bar, have been vocally against all the use it sees. The Dive isn't the first business they have tried to drive out of there. There was another smaller operation a few years ago, and there have been several attempts at floating ice-cream stands.... the same land owners complained to the MP about them as well.

So why is the Dive being dragged into court? Its obvious that there is money behind the venture. The people bring about the lawsuit are after two things, seeing if they can get some compensation (likely the lawyers will make out better)... and to see how much money can be dragged out of the Dive, to hopefully get them to fold.

In the end this is a BS lawsuit, that will set a horrible precedence...I given what I have seen this year, I really think that the Dive, is trying to set itself up to be less mobile, and become a fixture at the Weirs, and only go out selectively, and for private parties.....

Time will tell, but this one business has certainly ruffled many feather along the way.
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:22 PM   #47
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I have no skin in the game. This issue reminds me of the 10 year battle off of cape cod to add windmills. The well to do fought long and hard against it and prevailed. Believe uncle Ted and Mitt R were on the winning side.


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Old 06-02-2020, 01:26 PM   #48
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It seems to me that this is always going to be a struggle between the boaters who want to be there and the homeowners who don’t want them to be.

I wonder if the state should buy those homes and the affected homeowners could then move someplace else. This has gone from just a few boats to hundreds of boats on the busiest day and I anticipate that it will continue to increase.

And I mentioned this one time before, it seems that the state could do something to develop that state park land and maybe even have access from Moultonborough Neck Road(by car). Some picnic tables and some toilets and places to get rid of all your trash would make it a welcome change.
There is access from the Neck Rd to King's Court where the state maintains a parking lot. It is a fairly long walk from there to the water at Braun.
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:48 PM   #49
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Gotta love the NIMBY folks.

Never been to Braun Bay, and probably never will but I do have a funny, to me at least, Braun Bay story.

We were anchored at a quite little spot with the kids.

A couple guys with 4 ladies pulled up to us and asked if this was Braun Bay. Based on the ladies attire and looks I said “I’m pretty sure it is”.

Knowing all well and good we were not in Braun Bay my wife immediately called me out on it for being a typical man.

Wasn’t long before they realized it want Braun Bay.


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Old 06-02-2020, 03:10 PM   #50
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While there are certainly young people hanging out there, last time we were in BB (admittedly 4 years ago), the average age of the boat owners appeared to be about 50.
I was thinking that at peak times like holidays and weekends, the younger crowd is more prevalent. I have only been once on a weekday and there was a mixed crowd but have seen many pictures where the youngsters were the majority.
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Old 06-02-2020, 03:27 PM   #51
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IMHO.... we are seeing a "shift change" in the Braun Bay demographics. The The Gen-Xers (who have ruled the Bay for a long time) are going less & less & the Millennial's are stepping it up! Its been fun to see the changes!

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Old 06-02-2020, 04:56 PM   #52
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The water belongs to the State and is open for all to use. The couple can complain but the questions are then 1) why did you buy or 2) if you inherited then why haven't you sold already? Plenty of buyers out there right now.

We've not been to BB for a while but used to go there a lot when the girls were smaller -- great place for them to play frisbee or toss the ball and shallow enough to keep an eye on them. As they grew up they had less interest in being there - too many other places to check out. So we stopped going.

I believe the burden of proof is on the couple to prove the boats are there because of the DIVE. Plenty of photos over the years before the DIVE existed that show the high number of boats most weekends.

Good luck to them but I don't see a case here.
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Old 06-02-2020, 06:14 PM   #53
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And we all know why it appears “warmer” then other parts of the lake. Same here on Winnisquam, the sand bar is the only salt water area on the lake!


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Lmao I was thinking exactly the same thing.
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:28 AM   #54
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The Willy T. does serve food. Fun place. We usually end up at the Soggy though.
yea, figured they did but I wasn't there for food, LOL! Great painkillers. The 1st time there was much more fun than the 2nd time I was there. I think it was subdued after whatever incident there was that they stopped encouraging the naked jumping.

The Soggy Dollar was the best beach bar I have been to. Great painkillers as well but they have a banana bender that is my go to drink. The 1st time to BVI I went to Foxy's also and that was also a blast. The 2nd time to BVI not so much. I've been to several great beach bars all around the carribbean. Thats the place for something like the Dive IMO, not the lake.
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Old 06-03-2020, 05:36 PM   #55
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Default 1 solution for all lake "problems"?

1 solution for all lake "problems"? Cover the Witches with enough sand to cover all the rocks creating a giant sandbar. Permanently place The Dive in the middle of the sandbar. Mount a Light House on top of The Dive. Done, done, & done.
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Old 06-03-2020, 07:17 PM   #56
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1 solution for all lake "problems"? Cover the Witches with enough sand to cover all the rocks creating a giant sandbar. Permanently place The Dive in the middle of the sandbar. Mount a Light House on top of The Dive. Done, done, & done.


Awesome!



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Old 06-03-2020, 07:35 PM   #57
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1 solution for all lake "problems"? Cover the Witches with enough sand to cover all the rocks creating a giant sandbar. Permanently place The Dive in the middle of the sandbar. Mount a Light House on top of The Dive. Done, done, & done.
That's what I've been saying all along! Then we can call it "witches come true".
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:32 PM   #58
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This is one of the reason I stay away from the waterfront. I would not want people blasting music and hanging out in my backyard all the time. Admittedly though, the main reason being that it is instantly expensive and not at all affordable. Any water front property big enough with acreage to give you the privacy and location, ie: along the broads, where rafting isn't necessarily easy. Realistically you are well into the 7 figures.
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Old 06-05-2020, 10:39 AM   #59
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This is one of the reason I stay away from the waterfront. I would not want people blasting music and hanging out in my backyard all the time. Admittedly though, the main reason being that it is instantly expensive and not at all affordable. Any water front property big enough with acreage to give you the privacy and location, ie: along the broads, where rafting isn't necessarily easy. Realistically you are well into the 7 figures.
As a shore front owner, I can tell you that for the most part people don't intrude. And most of the load music ends up coming from you neighbors, and when you explain to them howdisruptful blasting their music is they turn the volume down......
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Old 06-05-2020, 11:53 AM   #60
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This is one of the reason I stay away from the waterfront. I would not want people blasting music and hanging out in my backyard all the time. Admittedly though, the main reason being that it is instantly expensive and not at all affordable. Any water front property big enough with acreage to give you the privacy and location, ie: along the broads, where rafting isn't necessarily easy. Realistically you are well into the 7 figures.
AAAAHHH the beauty of island property checks all those boxes... but one. The 7 figure price tag (for now anyways).

Where else do the birds serve as an alarm clock because it is so quiet otherwise they are LOUD in the morning!
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Old 06-05-2020, 12:34 PM   #61
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We've been lucky with our neighbors. Never any loud music or noise. It all comes from the boats. And for the most part they are ok too. It's just those few.
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Old 06-05-2020, 01:29 PM   #62
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AAAAHHH the beauty of island property checks all those boxes... but one. The 7 figure price tag (for now anyways).

Where else do the birds serve as an alarm clock because it is so quiet otherwise they are LOUD in the morning!
Sorry about this--Yesterday, I got an email from Nancy DePorter listing for 26 Mark Island. $1.5MM. No A/C.

https://theislandagent.kwrealty.com/...ign=emlstalert
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Old 06-05-2020, 01:49 PM   #63
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Sorry about this--Yesterday, I got an email from Nancy DePorter listing for 26 Mark Island. $1.5MM. No A/C.

https://theislandagent.kwrealty.com/...ign=emlstalert
Yeah but that is a one off, not the norm.

That is a nice place. BTW Nancy is awesome if you ever need an agent.
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Old 06-05-2020, 02:50 PM   #64
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BTW Nancy is awesome if you ever need an agent.
Ditto that. She works her butt off for her clients.
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Old 06-05-2020, 03:36 PM   #65
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Sorry about this--Yesterday, I got an email from Nancy DePorter listing for 26 Mark Island. $1.5MM. No A/C.

https://theislandagent.kwrealty.com/...ign=emlstalert
Nice place on it’s own little point! Love the building too! Now to win powerball!
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Old 06-05-2020, 03:47 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Descant View Post
Sorry about this--Yesterday, I got an email from Nancy DePorter listing for 26 Mark Island. $1.5MM. No A/C.

https://theislandagent.kwrealty.com/...ign=emlstalert
I will take a wild guess that if you can come up with the $1.5 million you can probably afford to add the AC, should you desire!
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Old 06-05-2020, 03:55 PM   #67
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Yeah but that is a one off, not the norm.

That is a nice place. BTW Nancy is awesome if you ever need an agent.
One Off leads to two and three. I recall the milestone when the first $1MM "bulldozer" was sold on Governor's Island.
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Old 06-05-2020, 04:19 PM   #68
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I will take a wild guess that if you can come up with the $1.5 million you can probably afford to add the AC, should you desire!
Damn...who needs AC on an island?? Must be a nice breeze most of the time!
And yes, I agree...if you can afford the place...
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:28 PM   #69
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One Off leads to two and three. I recall the milestone when the first $1MM "bulldozer" was sold on Governor's Island.
True the day is coming, but for now 7 figures is not the norm.

There are some beautiful places that have been put up on the islands lately and with the logistics available to do whatever you want to do the only limiting factor is your pocketbook.

I am quite grateful I got what I did when I did for the price I did. I could not even consider buying at today's prices. It's crazy.
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Old 06-05-2020, 08:32 PM   #70
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Damn...who needs AC on an island?? Must be a nice breeze most of the time!
And yes, I agree...if you can afford the place...
Trust me...you need A/C...

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Old 06-09-2020, 01:24 PM   #71
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Default Island A/C

We installed a heat pump last fall — really to replace a 20 year old direct vent kerosene heater — but I now have a/c too! There are days when this will be really nice!
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