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Old 11-15-2020, 05:05 AM   #1
TheProfessor
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Default The Porsche Story

Friend purchased a new Porsche Cayenne SUV.
Somewhere around $85,000 as did not want base model.

Loves it.
BUT.
It has one issue. That so far has not been fixed.

The automatic tailgate. Neat feature. No key needed.

More then a few times - with tailgate opened - while bending down into rear - the tailgate closes all by itself. Randomly - not all of the time.
This could potentially hurt either husband or wife if not very careful.

Took back to Porsche dealership. They could not find any issue. The Porsche dealership explained HOW to use the real tailgate, how to stand, where to stand, etc.

Next, as issue continued. The Porsche dealership on 2nd visit - as issue continued - the Porsche dealership "flashed" the computer or reprogrammed the vehicles computer.

Still has issue. But it is very random. Maybe once per month.

At what point does technology go too far?

Last edited by TheProfessor; 11-15-2020 at 05:07 AM. Reason: Went to Georgia to help count ballots.
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:27 AM   #2
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Does your friend drive it by Lake Winnipesaukee every so often so this story has some lake "connection"?
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:33 AM   #3
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Wink 'Happy with My Old Truck...

This "high-tech" purchase needs a "low-tech" answer: Might I suggest a broomstick!

I've been reading about a lot of new expensive vehicles that one "drives from dealership-to-dealership". (Electric cars included).

No wonder that cars from twenty+ years ago are getting such fantastic prices at auction houses! Low-mileage trucks like mine, are selling for triple what I paid in 1997!
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:59 AM   #4
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Anyone who purchases a Porsche with an automatic transmission deserves this tail gate glitch! The car is punishing him!

Achtung!!! ...... all Porsches must have a 5-speed manual to be a REAL Porsche! Send this fake Porsche to the crusher and that will fix its tail gate problem.
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Old 11-15-2020, 08:52 AM   #5
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessor View Post
Friend purchased a new Porsche Cayenne SUV.
Somewhere around $85,000 as did not want base model.

Loves it.
BUT.
It has one issue. That so far has not been fixed.

The automatic tailgate. Neat feature. No key needed.

More then a few times - with tailgate opened - while bending down into rear - the tailgate closes all by itself. Randomly - not all of the time.
This could potentially hurt either husband or wife if not very careful.

Took back to Porsche dealership. They could not find any issue. The Porsche dealership explained HOW to use the real tailgate, how to stand, where to stand, etc.

Next, as issue continued. The Porsche dealership on 2nd visit - as issue continued - the Porsche dealership "flashed" the computer or reprogrammed the vehicles computer.

Still has issue. But it is very random. Maybe once per month.

At what point does technology go too far?
Yes, it has gone way too far...the ones that piss me off the most are the damned "tire pressure monitors" and the friggen "anti skid" feature that will not let you get power to your wheels (in snow going up a hill) even though it's "turned off" by a supposed switch.
Much better when you controlled 4WD by yourself and your driving skills.
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Old 11-15-2020, 09:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
Does your friend drive it by Lake Winnipesaukee every so often so this story has some lake "connection"?
Thank you for bringing this up.
This April (2020) he purchased an old camp on the big lake. 1.1 million dollars cash.
This July (2020) he sold that same camp for 1.45 million dollars.

So yes, there is a lake connection.

Neat profit, eh ?

Thanks for bringing up the lake connection.
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Old 11-15-2020, 10:02 AM   #7
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Now back to the hatch opening of the Porsche.

Owner has found out that if he uses the button on door to open hatch- no problems with the hatch closing unexpectedly.

If he uses the remote FOB - the issue can happen.

All may be coincidental as he/they do not use the hatch that often. And neither husband nor wife actually use the vehicle that often now. So maybe once this COVID thing goes away there may be more times that the hatch is used.

He/they only use button on door to open hatch presently.
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Old 11-15-2020, 10:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessor View Post
Friend purchased a new Porsche Cayenne SUV.
Somewhere around $85,000 as did not want base model.

Loves it.
BUT.
It has one issue. That so far has not been fixed.

The automatic tailgate. Neat feature. No key needed.

More then a few times - with tailgate opened - while bending down into rear - the tailgate closes all by itself. Randomly - not all of the time.
This could potentially hurt either husband or wife if not very careful.

Took back to Porsche dealership. They could not find any issue. The Porsche dealership explained HOW to use the real tailgate, how to stand, where to stand, etc.

Next, as issue continued. The Porsche dealership on 2nd visit - as issue continued - the Porsche dealership "flashed" the computer or reprogrammed the vehicles computer.

Still has issue. But it is very random. Maybe once per month.

At what point does technology go too far?
To me it is very surprising that these automatic closing tailgates do not have safety features built in such as what is found on an elevator door; i.e. if any part of your body is in the doorway then the door will not close (or start to close and quickly revert back to the open position).

It's amazing that they can get an air bag to explode upon impact yet they can't yet nail the correct and safe operation of a tailgate......
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:07 AM   #9
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Default I believe TiltonBB wrote his note partially tongue-in-cheek...however:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
Does your friend drive it by Lake Winnipesaukee every so often so this story has some lake "connection"?
For me, it's enough that the OP is a regular participant in this forum and is obviously very much engaged with and interested in the Lakes Region. I know we want to keep focus around the 'lakes' and I get that the ridiculously acrimonious political conversation that was so prevalent earlier this year doesn't belong here. But, there's lots of middle-of-the-road type of conversation that may not start out as directly lake's region related, but often leads to conversation that is. Why then would we want to discourage this?

The Professor is asking a simple question because he knows there's good advice to be found here and, after all, there is an automotive section. How exactly is his post any different than many others we see - even just over the last week? For example, who doesn't love to hear about Biggd's 'New Family Member'?

I understand the need for controls to ensure appropriate subject matter and to avoid caustic topics but if the last couple of months are any indication, most members of this forum have done a terrific job keeping the conversation around issues of interest to many of us - whether they are directly lakes-related or not (most are by the way).

I hate that we could be missing great conversation or advice just because an OP didn't start a random post by saying "I was driving by the lake the other day and it got me thinking about my friend's Porsche issue". At the end of the day:

1. We are all capable of self-policing and most members are doing a great job of it
2. If you object to posts that are not precisely lakes-related, then don't read or comment on them. Over time, low participation in certain types of posts will in and of itself discourage future similar ones
3. I hope that we don't close the circle so tightly around the 'lake connection' that we run out of relevant subject matter, resort to constantly re-hashing previous topics, or feel we must launch new threads under less than honest pretenses

I submit this with the best of intentions in the hope that the Webmaster is open to such viewpoints.
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:51 AM   #10
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessor View Post
Now back to the hatch opening of the Porsche.

Owner has found out that if he uses the button on door to open hatch- no problems with the hatch closing unexpectedly.

If he uses the remote FOB - the issue can happen.

All may be coincidental as he/they do not use the hatch that often. And neither husband nor wife actually use the vehicle that often now. So maybe once this COVID thing goes away there may be more times that the hatch is used.

He/they only use button on door to open hatch presently.
Maybe the fob is in his pocket with the button inadvertently pressing against his wallet when he bends over? Also, without having owned a Porsche, this is just speculation, but I would guess the hatch has a safety mechanism so that the door will reverse course if it meets significant resistance, such as your friend's head or hand.
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillcountry View Post
Yes, it has gone way too far...the ones that piss me off the most are the damned "tire pressure monitors" and the friggen "anti skid" feature that will not let you get power to your wheels (in snow going up a hill) even though it's "turned off" by a supposed switch.
Much better when you controlled 4WD by yourself and your driving skills.
Agreed they can be irritating. But you should be able to set the tire pressure monitors to whatever pressure you'd like so that they're only warning you when you need a bit more air. This is a good thing, especially since modern tires do not show out ward signs of low pressure until they are super low. Full disclosure--mine have been flashing at me for a week, I really need to add some air. Damn things
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Old 11-20-2020, 06:33 AM   #12
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Default Under Pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
Agreed they can be irritating. But you should be able to set the tire pressure monitors to whatever pressure you'd like so that they're only warning you when you need a bit more air. This is a good thing, especially since modern tires do not show out ward signs of low pressure until they are super low. Full disclosure--mine have been flashing at me for a week, I really need to add some air. Damn things
Tire pressure monitoring systems were mandated by the federal government...wasn't the manufacturer's idea to add them. The properties of air change with temperature...1 pound of air pressure for every 10 degree temperature change. If you set your tires pressures on a 60 degree day, when the temps drop to 20, the tire pressure goes down 4 pounds, and sometimes it's enough to turn the light on. This is why some places advertise nitrogen filling of tires...it has different properties and pressure stays the same. I advise people to set their tire pressure a little high in the colder months...the pressure will still drop, but not low enough to make the tpms light come on. Some manufacturers also disable the ability to turn off traction control systems ( Honda for one ) whenever the tpms light is on. That's a pain when you need to get some wheel speed in the snow...when I keep a 12volt inflator in my trunk...just in case I need to inflate..while on my way to the lake!
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Old 11-20-2020, 07:58 AM   #13
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Default Human error? (Not the owner)

Here's a consideration. The tailgate is probably tied into the cars locking system. Most cars starting out locked, when unlocked with the FOB (it will NOT happen if you use the unlock buttons in the car), will, if no one opens a door in a period of time, relock themselves.

If they open the tailgate with the FOB, and do not open any other door, the locking system might decide that, in a minute, it should relock the car, INCLUDING closing the tailgate.

The issue about systems like this is that the programmer of the cars electronics must anticipate EVERY possible situation and build a proper response. In sophisticated programming environments, engineers grab various, predesigned software modules without fully understanding exactly HOW those modules work, in detail. An example in this case. Suppose a general locking software module for a CAR is extended by the engineer. He ADDS on the ability to deal with the tailgate, opening and closing it. But buried in the original module is the timeout relock feature. In the original CAR application, all that happens is the doors relock. No big deal. In the SUV, it ALSO closes the tailgate, a physical, possibly dangerous action. The software designer did not add this functionality when he added the tailgate capability. It was buried in the original code which he did not build and did not think about. If the previous designer of the CAR code was good, he documented this but minor features might not be documented. Then the new programmer needs to read the existing documentation. Maybe he does or doesn't and again, a minor function like this could be overlooked.

Confirmation tests for this would be:

1. When the problem does happen, is the SUV always locked when they open the tailgate with the FOB? A likely scenario is coming back from shopping and putting packages away.

2. With the car locked, unlock it with the FOB, open a door, and open the tailgate with the FOB. Does the automatic close ever happen?

The funny thing is, the software is trying to be "helpful" by a one touch, close all the doors and lock the car. It becomes a problem when the auto relock is triggered. Unintended consequences because the passenger doors can't be automatically closed. The tailgate is a similar, but not EXACTLY the same kind of door. The locking button on the FOB is a similar but not EXACTLY the same locking mechanism as the buttons in the car because only the FOB triggers the auto relock. The software needs to recognize and manage all these subtleties and the programmer needs to anticipate them all.
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Old 11-20-2020, 08:19 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by steve-on-mark View Post
Tire pressure monitoring systems were mandated by the federal government...wasn't the manufacturer's idea to add them. The properties of air change with temperature...1 pound of air pressure for every 10 degree temperature change. If you set your tires pressures on a 60 degree day, when the temps drop to 20, the tire pressure goes down 4 pounds, and sometimes it's enough to turn the light on. This is why some places advertise nitrogen filling of tires...it has different properties and pressure stays the same. I advise people to set their tire pressure a little high in the colder months...the pressure will still drop, but not low enough to make the tpms light come on. Some manufacturers also disable the ability to turn off traction control systems ( Honda for one ) whenever the tpms light is on. That's a pain when you need to get some wheel speed in the snow...when I keep a 12volt inflator in my trunk...just in case I need to inflate..while on my way to the lake!
Thatís what I did when my pressure light came on recently. I set my pressure higher than normal (only one tire was the culprit). Iím due for new tires in December and will check out the prices for the nitrogen fill. Thanks for the info!
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Old 11-20-2020, 08:50 AM   #15
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That’s what I did when my pressure light came on recently. I set my pressure higher than normal (only one tire was the culprit). I’m due for new tires in December and will check out the prices for the nitrogen fill. Thanks for the info!
If you buy your tires from Costco not only will you save money, but all they use is nitrogen to fill the tires!

Unfortunately their only store in New Hampshire is in Nashua, but the savings are well worth it. Their warranty is excellent also (road hazards included).
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Old 11-20-2020, 08:59 AM   #16
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Too much automobile technology here:

You are better off driving a manual transmission with a clutch pedal, and using a $15 floor style bicycle pump w/ air gauge to maintain the tire air pressure. It takes about 40 pumps to raise a car tire up from 25 to 30-psi, and pumping it manually gives you a much better appreciation on tire traction than an inflation system.

Tapping the inflated tire tread hard with a hammer is also a good test for tire inflation without using a gauge and is easier to do in the rain or in the dark.

And, a manual transmission gives it a better grip on the snow.
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Old 11-20-2020, 12:58 PM   #17
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Default human failure

@JeffK
Great explanation of the development process.
I always recall the axiom the "No human can build a machine so smart that some other human will be able to operate it improperly.
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