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11-27-2016, 10:20 AM | #1 |
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Issue with local contractor - guidance sought
Hello all,
We’re transplanted NHerites who moved to the mid-atlantic a number of years ago for work and still have a small second home in the lakes region that we try to frequent as much as possible. We’re having an issue with a local contractor and would like some thoughts on the situation and any suggestions on how we might proceed. I have no desire at this point to share the person’s name because I am honestly still hoping he can finish the work and we can amiably wrap this thing up – but I’m starting to doubt that will ever happen. Please note that since the deposit was provided, almost all conversations have occurred via email. The person prefers to rely exclusively on email for communication. I honestly do not have a problem with that if my emails were responded to within a day or so, but that is usually not the case. Here’s the history: 7/10/16 - Provided a $6,000 deposit on vinyl siding/insulation/door work to start on 7/25 7/29/16 - Told via email he will start on 8/8 (not a problem for us) 8/8/16 - Told via email the siding is in 8/9/16 - Told via email he will start on 8/15 (not a problem for us) 8/19/16 - Told via email he will start on 8/22 (not a problem for us) 8/23/16 - Told via email he will start on 8/25-6 8/29/16 - Told via email he has removed the old insulation 9/11/16 - Told via email he will start siding on 9/19 (frustration has started) 9/23/16 - Told via email he will be on project full-time now 9/28/16 - Told via email the house is half wrapped with vapor barrier 10/7/16 - Told via email that the new insulation install is finished and all work will be done in 2 weeks 11/4/16 - After weeks of no updates, I insisted on a call rather than email, we spoke, apologies were made for lack of progress, and I was told that he was now on it full time now will be done by 11/24 (Thanksgiving). We agreed to change our family Thanksgiving plans and drive 8hrs to NH to meet in NH on 11/25 or 26 for final review and payment 11/23/16 - He confirmed via email to meet with us on the afternoon of 11/26 11/24/16 - Rather than spending Thanksgiving with our family, we drove 8hrs to NH to see progress and meet with the contractor. There was no siding on site other than a few starter strips installed, and a few loose on the deck. 11/26/16 - The contractor did not show for afternoon meeting as planned. 11/27/16 - We have decided stay one more day in NH to try to meet again. This means I need to take Monday off of work to drive 8hrs home. He just told me he may not be able to meet with me today. I feel like we have given him more than enough leeway on this and we’re starting to wonder if this work will ever actually be completed. The fact that we gave up our Thanksgiving plans to drive to NH just to meet with him and he blew us off twice feels like the last straw. Thoughts? -don
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11-27-2016, 10:34 AM | #2 |
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What's the total cost of the job? Do you know who he is ordering the siding from? Was it actually ordered? If so, was it paid for? Was it delivered?
Personally, I would start legal action immediately. No amount of waiting or promises is going to get this dead beat moving and he clearly has no respect for you, your time or your property. |
11-27-2016, 10:49 AM | #3 |
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Welcome to the club!
Local contractors appear to be on permanent vacation. Good luck finding one under budget and on time!
So called premier builders is just a marketing gimmick. After retirement I help provide project management for two building projects. First project, I fired two builders and the third was slooooow! And numerous subcontractors on which I ended up finishing their work myself! Took me three years to build a 2500 sq ft home. Last project was a godsend! Hired Benson Woods out of Walpole. After a year getting wetland permits, two months of site work, poured the foundation and Benson Woods had the house up in two weeks! Sure it was a prefab, but my humble opinion the quality of the build was far better than any stick built I have seen! And on time and under budget! I feel you pain! Perhaps you should try and calling the attorney general for remediation. Even that is futile and the local subcontractors know it!
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11-27-2016, 11:17 AM | #4 |
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Total lack of respect for you and your time. What a slap in the face not to meet you after all you've been through. Good luck.
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11-27-2016, 11:47 AM | #5 |
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Here's something I woud do... Now...
Call the bastard and tell him if he doesn't finish the job ASAP, you'll post his name here and file a lawsuit against him...
Do you have a contract? I'd hold up any further payments. Is there a licensing board that investigates complaints? I think that not posting his ID at this point protects only him and not the rest of us who are looking to have work done to our places. Post his name...I think he has earned that amount of "free advertisement".
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11-27-2016, 11:51 AM | #6 | |
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Long distance is a problem. In one instance I solved that by using a major chain (Lowes). I went to the local, picked out my materials in NH and they ordered for delivery and installation in Pompano Beach, FL. Paid with a credit card so I had that as a second recourse if there were problems. No problems whatsoever. See other threads: many here who live away "have a guy" who watches things, especially in the off season. Your guy should be able to recommend or discourage various contractors for stuff he doesn't do himself. |
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11-27-2016, 11:57 AM | #7 |
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License?
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11-27-2016, 11:59 AM | #8 |
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I had an issue with a local plumber...
A very recognized name in the Lakes Region, at the time. Always the #1, highly recommended one in the area. They were a reliable company that my father used for years. His son took over the business after the original owner retired. He agreed to plumb an addition I was in the process of doing. Although no money changed hands, I chased this guy for many weeks to do the job we had agreed to. I finally gave up and hired someone else who did a great job. Many months later, while shopping, I ran in to the son...i.e. the "new" owner. He looked emaciated and his teeth were rotting terribly. Soon thereafter all the company's trucks were no longer seen in the area. The company was out-of-business.
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11-27-2016, 12:19 PM | #9 |
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Do you have this persons telephone number and address? Are you certain they are real? From your description he called you back in response to an email, that makes me think you do not have his telephone number.
To me it seems like you have been had. He got your deposit. Now her will string you along as long as possible before you go to the police. I hope I am wrong. |
11-27-2016, 12:29 PM | #10 |
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Beyond the money, even if he finally did the work I would have ZERO confidence he did the job right. Expensive problems could pop up years later.
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11-27-2016, 12:36 PM | #11 |
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11-27-2016, 01:06 PM | #12 |
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You need to post his name on this board. Boy oh boy this just isn't right.
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11-27-2016, 01:52 PM | #13 | |
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While I completely agree what has happened here is wrong. You might be giving this person an advantage by alerting them in advance of potential legal actions. Best to seek some (real) professional advice at this point beyond the pages of this forum. |
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11-27-2016, 02:04 PM | #14 |
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This may be the time to take the legal route. He my file bankruptcy.
We have been extremely satisfied with people we found on HomeAdvisor. Quick response, reasonable prices, work performed neatly, quickly with good materials. We got them after we were told by some the locals didn't want to work and thus our work was finished before theirs. homeadvisor.com I am a retired workaholic an continuing aquaholic. |
11-27-2016, 02:34 PM | #15 |
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It is sad that this has happened.
I know of many competent contractors that do quality work and on time. 1. Should have not given any money up front. 2. Pay a deposit equal to the amount of materials placed on site. 3. Make sure to see the invoice for materials. 4. A written contract is required if you do not know the contractor. 6. The written contract would spell out times of payment with progress. 7. At least 20% is held back until the job is completed and inspected. 8, A one year written warranty should be included. Granted - those that live here and know many of the contractors don't do all of the above as a verbal agreement is all that is needed for those known contractors. Here is another story a few decades old. But relevant to said situation. This nice elderly couple wanted a single door garage built on their lakefront property. Names of quality contractors were provided to them but they chose one that they found on their own. Those days it was newspaper ads. They paid the $6,000 up front to a contractor they found themselves. No work done. Call after call. Then an article shows up in the Laconia Citizen newspaper. This contractor had stiffed multiple people and the courts/police were after him. He had left the state. This nice elderly couple paid another $6,000 or more to get the garage built. At that time $6,000 or thereabouts for a one door garage was roughly the going price. So they paid double or more for this one car garage. They lived out of state during off season and were not here. |
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11-27-2016, 05:14 PM | #16 |
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Hate to read stories like this and sorry for your trouble.
At this point I think the most important thing is that you need to get this job finished up before winter really sets in. Likely this will need to be done by another contractor. I agree with the other post in that you should talk with an attorney on how to best proceed. They will most likely tell you to send out some form of a demand letter and go from there. The good thing for you is that you have a complete time line of your communications vial email and that will help you a lot. Unfortunately, those of us who don't live up the Lake full time are easy prey for contractors like this. Good luck with getting the job done. |
11-27-2016, 09:08 PM | #17 |
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Wow, what a response.
Thanks for confirming that I was not over reacting. In this contractor's defense, I do not believe he is a bad guy. I've met him several times, have seen recommendations, have seen his prior work, etc. I will report back on how this all turns out. Thanks for the feedback
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11-28-2016, 02:57 AM | #18 |
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Get a lawyer & get him into court, or kiss your money goodbye. It's most likely gone anyway, but the longer you put up with this nonsense the worse it's going to get.
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11-28-2016, 06:08 AM | #19 |
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Take him to court
Start the court process now. You have been patient enough. If your contractor really intends to do the work he will have it done before the court date. My guess is that he already spent the money to buy the vinyl on something else.
The good new is that you do not need a lawyer, you can take him to small claims court yourself. A lawyer would probably bill about half of what you have lost just to handle this case. The bad news is that Laconia District Court is very friendly to defendants and sometimes not real helpful to plaintiffs. |
11-28-2016, 07:34 AM | #20 |
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I agree with Tilton. The Carroll County Court has a soft spot for the defendants too. They give them every last chance. I don't even bother anymore, I send it to a collection agency when I can't collect the money. They are far better than the courts.
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11-28-2016, 08:21 AM | #21 |
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Had similar issue
I had the same issue on a project (not at lake). I knew the contractor, had done work for me before so there was no reason to mistrust? My mistake!!!!!!
After similar delays and problems I finally put my foot down and said finish the job or I will have to sue. Contractor just laughed and said sue me all you want since I do not have a penny to my name. I ended up hiring a new contractor, lost about $20K on the project. Oh almost forgot to mention he did do about 65% of the work but guess what? Never paid his subs. They never filed mechanics liens so I was not responsible for the money owed to them but I did have a regular parade of people knocking on my door asking for money. My advice? Cut your loses and move on otherwise this story will only bet worse. |
11-28-2016, 08:38 AM | #22 | |
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There are good, trustworthy contractors at the lake, this guy isn't one of them from your description. Also, I never give a contractor more down payment than I am willing to lose. Most will ask that I make partial payments when materials come in. |
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11-28-2016, 09:55 AM | #23 |
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Our story was a missing painting contractor. Gave him deposit for paint only to do whole house and garage. He said paint was delivered and was starting work. When a neighbor reported to us that they had seen no one show up for weeks after job was supposedly started we tried to call, but no answer repeatedly. Took a drive up and ZERO progress, no paint on site, and no contractor. Once again, we had gotten references, seen his work but obviously he must have fallen on hard times and decided our deposit for paint was worth the risk of a fraud/theft charge. We hired a new contractor, had the work done while we were in residence, and although it was not fun having to try and enjoy a vacation while painters were showing up at the crack of dawn everyday, I don't think we will ever plan on having work done while we are not present to monitor the situation. BTW, I will never give any contractor a deposit for anything again! I will pay when materials are delivered. Fool me once.....
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11-28-2016, 02:49 PM | #24 |
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I had a similar situation with a roofing contractor. Gave him 50% deposit up front, which is normal. Same crap, he showed up once with just ice and water shield, he stripped the front of the house and covered it with ice and water shield. Said he would be back but made excuse upon excuse until the check cleared. Going to court on Monday and the chase is on. It may be years before I see any money even if I win a judgement on Monday.
I ended up having a roofing contractor from Mass do the job, same price and it was done in one day. I don't like to generalize but NH contractors are notorious for putting things off. I've heard many of stories about sketchy contractors at the local watering holes. If it's hunting season you can't get them to do anything. |
11-28-2016, 03:18 PM | #25 | |
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just curious
What town is this contractor from?
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11-28-2016, 04:13 PM | #26 | |
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11-28-2016, 04:20 PM | #27 | |
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11-28-2016, 04:31 PM | #28 |
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I can't see him declaring bankruptcy for such a small amount but if he's done this many times and I'm in a long line of creditors then, yes, I could see it. My court date is Monday so we'll see.
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11-28-2016, 06:43 PM | #29 |
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I refer to this as "New Hampshire Time" and, unfortunately, you are spot on.
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11-29-2016, 02:31 AM | #32 | |
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Sadly, Courts Won't Get Your Money Back...
I like the idea of using a collection agency; sure, they take a big cut, but you'll get some satisfaction one way or the other.
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I also agree with your other suggestion...to post his name. But I'd use his first name only. Might as well have other contractors with the same first name working on him. .
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11-29-2016, 07:29 AM | #33 | |
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I doubt if that guy used the money for his teeth. I am sure he used it for a lot less worthwhile things. You should always check with the locals before hiring someone. There is a well known big contractor who has recently cut and run so be careful. |
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11-29-2016, 08:48 AM | #34 |
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Pissed Off Consumer
I went through this exact same issue 1 1/2 years ago for some work I needed on my island camp.
I used the power of the internet to resolve it. I put a post up on "Pissed Off Consumer" and made mention of the company name. I stated only actual facts that could be easily backed up. What basically happens then is whenever you google his company name my pissed off consumer post would be right there at the top of the search staring him or anybody who searched for his company name right in the face. He called, after avoiding me for months and begged me to remove my post said it was seriously hurting his business and a big job he had quoted was now being questioned by the owner who saw my post. I made him meet me face to face (that was the best part!), he showed up all apologetic with 100% of my deposit money in hand. One thing, once you make a post on Pissed Off Consumer it's almost impossible to take down so make sure you only state the facts and do not embellish anything! Honestly, this forum has a lot of power that I think you should use. Many, many people come here looking for contractor recommendations. Not only would you be doing a service to other forum members so no one else is stung by this guy but you also would have the ability to edit your post if it got resolved and give the guy another chance. If I had to do it all over again I would of started here. Edited to add: As an example if you cut an paste this thread topic title in a google search, "Issue with local contractor - guidance sought" watch what comes up #1 at the top of the search... Good luck with whatever you decide! Dan
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11-29-2016, 03:21 PM | #35 |
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As a rule I strongly prefer to read and not post about topics such as this but the problem described by donmac is without question not hopeless yet and I feel compelled to offer one approach I have used quite successfully. Sometimes you just have to go into the trenches to get justice.
I did some work for a guy who then owed me a sizable sum worth suing for. He refused to pay me so I sued in Small Claims court in Laconia. - Sue under the NH Consumer Protection statutes covering these affairs including Unfair & Deceptive Practices; These laws also provide for up to triple damages; See NH RSA 358-A:10 for “enhanced damages” and 359-B:16 for “Civil Liability for Willful Non-compliance”; Willful is a KEY word; - Be certain you have the name of his operation exactly right including the address-if all you have ever seen is the name on his letterhead, use that to name the Defendant; However you still need to go to the Sec. of State’s website for some more info.; It is vital you sue the correct entity; - Go to the NH Sec. of State website: https://www.sos.nh.gov/corporate/soskb/csearch.asp and see HOW this guy is actually doing business by typing in the name of his operation (i.e., how he is held) meaning a C-corp, S-Corp, LLC, Sole Proprietorship etc.; you could be pleasantly surprised to find out he is a Sole Proprietor which then makes him personally liable as opposed to corporate liability only; but even if he is doing business as something other than a Sole Proprietor, the company may have assets to purse; - Contrary to common belief, Attorney Fees in N.H. can be reimbursed in Small Claims under certain circumstances; See this for some interesting reading: http://www.courts.state.nh.us/suprem...6/simps045.pdf - At the Hearing/Trial the guy I sued failed to show up so I won by default; The guy then tried 3 times to complain to the Court that he simply couldn’t make it to Court and asked for another shot at showing up; the Court flatly denied it but I did file a response stating that the Defendant could have in fact shown up (he chose not to), could have had a designated Employee show up (he chose not to), and could have retained a lawyer to show up (he chose not to); He had 30 days after the ruling to appeal but he had already passed the 30 day mark so his 1st appeal was already in deep trouble; - This guy then failed to make payments so I filed for a contempt Hearing; the guy failed to show for that Hearing too so a bench warrant for his arrest was issued on the spot; I gave the guy’s home address to the Belknap County Sheriff who then arrested him and off to jail he went; his bail was $500 and after his release the Sheriff sent me the $500; the Sheriff’s Dept. was terrific and easy to do business with; All of a sudden I start getting checks in the mail for various amounts that within about 6 months covered the debt; - As the guy paid, I still went looking for property to attach using what is called an Ex Parte Attachment; here the Court allows you to seize property the entity you sued has and to do so with no warning to the Defendant; Read more here and at this juncture an Attorney can be priceless to have to help guide this aspect of collection: http://www.courts.state.nh.us/forms/nhjb-2181-dps.pdf - With the Attachment order in hand get a copy of the check(s) you wrote and see whose Account it was deposited to; if it is in the name of the entity you are suing all monies in the account will be drained to pay you on the spot or soon thereafter once the Sheriff takes the lead; it is my understanding that the Sheriff will go to the bank with the Attachment order in hand but don’t quote me on this; - Build a simple website and buy a domain name patterned after something like www.johndoecontractingsucks.com; if he does any business using the web when searches are made the domain you own should come up with the details of your situation; I like the word sucks-do NOT use words such as…”scams” or “steals”-I believe they could be taken for slander or liable; and whatever you post make certain it is 100% factual; Scammers cannot as a rule, stand the light of day and the Internet is a powerful way to shed light on the problem; - Keep excellent records and dates of events from start to finish; Bear in mind that dirtbags like the guy you hired bank on you not pursuing them-it’s highly likely this is not the first time he has stolen money from someone and furthermore he believes he knows the con game better than you and that there really is little or no downside to what he has done. It is your job to change his mind. When I got through with the guy who stole my money I am confident he thought twice about doing it again to anyone, especially while he was in a jail cell at 11 o’clock at night. I am NOT an Attorney so this is personal advice not legal advice. However if you are looking for an attorney I will suggest Bill Philpot in Laconia. I started the Small Claims case myself and saved some money doing so but when I saw the Judgement in my favor I was determined to collect on it so I hired an Attorney. It is rare indeed I end up in Court but as I said, sometimes these matters have to escalate in order to get justice. I rarely hire an attorney when I am forced into Small Claims Court but Bill’s reasonable fee was clearly worthwhile; here’s another thing I learned-local legal help CAN change how a Court sees you-I couldn’t help but think that because I had actually spent money to hire an Attorney the Judge viewed the merits of my case far more seriously than had I appeared alone. Of this I am convinced. And when technical and not-so-technical arguments of law need to be made in front of a Judge, an Attorney experienced in your specific matter and on your side can be a huge advantage. Furthermore don’t feel badly at all about driving him into bankruptcy if need be. His legal fees alone to do so will be an incentive to pay you what he owes. |
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11-29-2016, 03:43 PM | #36 |
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Diver, I have had that happen in the past. When we finally reached the contempt of court part, the judge ordered the person arrested and after he was arrested several times, we got all the money he owed. However, the last time I went to court with this last person, the judge told me that we don't have Debtor's prison's anymore and we didn't arrest people who owed money. He said we would come back in 6 months and review the case. Well, this case had been going on for about 5 years and the guy wouldn't even pay as much as $10. a month which he had agreed to. So I wrote a letter to the court and told him (essentially) I was not going to go back to court in 6 months that if he felt someone could buy something and get away with not paying for it then I was wasting both my time and the court's time. The judge did order him to pay $10 a month after those 6 months which the judge hadn't in that past hearing, but of course the guy never paid. So I just dropped the whole thing. I had had enough. I kept spending money to collect money that i was never going to get. So after that last experience I decided to give up on the court system. I felt the judges have become too liberal. Now this WAS a different judge than the first case. And I might add I know both of them personally.
So I am curious if your case happened a long time ago or recently? |
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11-30-2016, 07:45 AM | #37 |
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I would email or call and tell him that if he doesn't solve the problem immediately that you will post a complaint on this forum, Angies List, Homeadvisor and complaints division of the attorney generals office for starters
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11-30-2016, 09:28 AM | #38 | |
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