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Old 10-09-2007, 02:10 PM   #1
Big D
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Default WOW Trail

Does anyone know if the WOW trail will allow snowmobiles? It doesn't mention it on their website.

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Old 10-09-2007, 05:21 PM   #2
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Default WOW Trails????

Big D

Here is the link to their website.

http://www.wowtrail.org/Html/Index.html

This is their Mission Statement.

The Laconia Rails with Trails Exploratory Committee's Mission :
To promote, design, build and maintain a paved multi-use recreational trail through the city of Laconia, along side the active railroad bed. The WOW Trail will connect the Laconia communities of Weirs Beach and Lakeport with the Downtown via a safe and convenient passageway, while providing outstanding scenic and recreation opportunities
Trail Info and FAQs.

http://www.wowtrail.org/Html/TrailInfo.html


Benefits of the WOW Trail
________________________________________
Provides a safe place for walking, jogging, bicycling, in-line skating, and cross-country skiing.

I do not see Snowmobiling listed?


From what is on their site it does not sound like Snowmobiles are included.

Maybe one of the local clubs may have more info?

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Old 10-09-2007, 06:17 PM   #3
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Default Ok, sensitive subject,

I will try and be constructive and nice. The WOW trail I believe will run along side the RR tracks. In the winter when there is enough coverage the railroad tracks themselves become the "snowmobile trail". Therefore, I believe that they will run alongside each other. But mark my ballot not WOW'd by this proposed trail.
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Old 10-09-2007, 07:32 PM   #4
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From what I've seen of the current WOW trails, you end up with a poorly maintained chainlink fence next to the tracks, which makes for a nice barrier for trash to collect against.

It looks to be the most ambitious project I've seen to install a continuous eyesore along the waterfront.
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:56 PM   #5
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It would be a shame to spend three million dollars and exclude snowmobiles from the trail. With grooming capabilities and support from local club's it seems like it would be a win win for everyone.

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Old 10-10-2007, 07:37 PM   #6
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"Provides a safe place for walking, jogging, bicycling, in-line skating and cross country skiing." is what the WOW trail is intended to be.

Is snowmobiling compatable with the above activities on the narrow corridor of the Winnisquam-Opechee-Winnipesaukee, www.wowtrail.org?

While you as a snowmobiler call it a win-win situation, methinks that people who want to walk, jog, bike, skate, or xc ski would call sharing the narrow trail with snowmobiles very much a lose-lose situation.

Snowmobiles have nothing in common with walking, jogging, biking or xc skiing. As many know, snowmobiles can go very fast with speeds up to 80mph and higher and the two-stroke machines have a very loud high pitched noise, and place lots of two-stroke oil fumes into the air which stinks and lingers.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless
"Provides a safe place for walking, jogging, bicycling, in-line skating and cross country skiing." is what the WOW trail is intended to be.

Is snowmobiling compatable with the above activities on the narrow corridor of the Winnisquam-Opechee-Winnipesaukee, www.wowtrail.org?

While you as a snowmobiler call it a win-win situation, methinks that people who want to walk, jog, bike, skate, or xc ski would call sharing the narrow trail with snowmobiles very much a lose-lose situation.

Snowmobiles have nothing in common with walking, jogging, biking or xc skiing. As many know, snowmobiles can go very fast with speeds up to 80mph and higher and the two-stroke machines have a very loud high pitched noise, and place lots of two-stroke oil fumes into the air which stinks and lingers.
Yeah, it must really suck to have a groomed flat trail to walk or ski on, provided for FREE by the local snowmobile club.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:55 PM   #8
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Default Well here is the pandoras box

Now that someone else opened it, I will join in the fun. FLL, spare me the fast snowmobile speech. All I can tell you is the geniuses that came up with this WOW trail idea, decided to put it alongside the State Corridor Snowmobile trail. So I guess you could say snowmobilers were there first. Put your peaceful trail somewhere else, I am sure there will be a bigger fight, once the landowners along the lake realize their view will soon be obscured by a fence and people taking a break from their exercise, on their front lawns......
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:53 PM   #9
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This WOW trail as shown on the map in the website would create a walking, jogging, biking, in-line skating, xc skiing, paved trail running along Lake Winnisquam-Lake Opechee-Paugus Bay & Meredith Bay, next to where a single railroad track that's active in the summer now exists. As I understand, the snowmobiles have been using the railroad track, when covered by natural snow, as a trail for years.

It's a State of New Hampshire owned right of way, and an excellent use for a bicycle path because it is very flat, and very scenic being right along the waterfront of three different lakes. The bicycle season potentially lasts from March to December, depending on the snow coverage.

Bicycling is a great way to get in shape, loose weight, increase strength and endurance, is quiet, non-polluting, uses no gasoline, and makes the waterfront available to many who otherwise would not get out to see it.

Plus, it is a cheap way to see the lakes. For just five dollars, I have an old English three-speed bike that I found at a yard sale which would be excellent for the paved level WOW bike trail. If anyone is looking for a cheap usable bike, try the Saint Vincent DePaul store on Union Ave next to McDonald's in Laconia.

Three cheers for everyone involved in making the WOW, Winnisquam-Opechee-Winnipesaukee multi-use, NON-MOTORIZED trail a happening trail, sometime soon!
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Old 10-11-2007, 12:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Three cheers for everyone involved in making the WOW, Winnisquam-Opechee-Winnipesaukee multi-use, NON-MOTORIZED trail a happening trail, sometime soon!
Biking and snowmobiling rarely happen concurrently. The weather to permit one activity pretty much excludes the other from taking place.

Your comments seem to speak to the pipe-dream of the trail, and don't address the reality of being, to-date, rather poorly executed. You also made no acknowledgment of the pre-existing snowmobile usage.

I'm not a snowmobiler (but would like to try it), I do enjoy an occasional bike ride. I don't, however, think the WOW trail is a very realistic venture.
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Old 10-11-2007, 03:59 PM   #11
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With snowmobiling, the snow is the boss. Depending on the snow, the snomos run on top of the railroad tracks and when the snow gets beat up, they run between the rails on the worn out, compacted snow.....what's left of it until the local snowmo club decides to close the trail...due to lack of snow. A snowmobile trail that travels on tops of the railroad tracks has existed for 25 years or so.

As I understand, the WOW trail would parallel the railroad tracks, and be a paved blacktop asphalt surface.

What I don't know is how many feet: 5, 10, 15, or 25' distance the paved trail would be from the tracks, and if a fence separating the tracks from the trail is planned for a part or the whole trail, or what?

Cross country skiing, a non-motorized use, would begin when winter and snow makes bicycling a no-go. As always, the weather is the big boss.

The number one main criteria is that the WOW trail is a NON-MOTORIZED trail! Got that?

The Winnipesaukee Rail Road runs in the warmer weather and you can always take the train ride, but the nearby WOW trail is for walkers, bikers, skaters, xc skiers....all people powered and therefore non-motorized.
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Old 10-11-2007, 09:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless
This WOW trail as shown on the map in the website would create a walking, jogging, biking, in-line skating, xc skiing, paved trail running along Lake Winnisquam-Lake Opechee-Paugus Bay & Meredith Bay, next to where a single railroad track that's active in the summer now exists. As I understand, the snowmobiles have been using the railroad track, when covered by natural snow, as a trail for years.

It's a State of New Hampshire owned right of way, and an excellent use for a bicycle path because it is very flat, and very scenic being right along the waterfront of three different lakes. The bicycle season potentially lasts from March to December, depending on the snow coverage.

Bicycling is a great way to get in shape, loose weight, increase strength and endurance, is quiet, non-polluting, uses no gasoline, and makes the waterfront available to many who otherwise would not get out to see it.

Plus, it is a cheap way to see the lakes. For just five dollars, I have an old English three-speed bike that I found at a yard sale which would be excellent for the paved level WOW bike trail. If anyone is looking for a cheap usable bike, try the Saint Vincent DePaul store on Union Ave next to McDonald's in Laconia.

Three cheers for everyone involved in making the WOW, Winnisquam-Opechee-Winnipesaukee multi-use, NON-MOTORIZED trail a happening trail, sometime soon!
You're correct, it is a New Hampshire state owned right of way. That means we the people own it, not any one user group. I applaud the efforts of those who helped raise money and had the vision to create a trail of this magnitude, but to spend 3 million dollars to locate a nine mile, non motorized trail next to a major snowmobile corrider with no apparent collaborative effort with the snowmobile community makes no sense to me.

Careful what you wish for FLL, exclusionary projects like this may some day limit your access to a sport or to an activity that you enjoy.

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Old 10-12-2007, 04:55 AM   #13
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So, what happens when a snowmobile, atv, or motorcycle decides to drive along a sidewalk? If the police department sees it, they get a ticket because it's a violation.

Ever go hikng in the nearby White Mountain National Forest. Hiking trails all have signs at the trail head that says in the fine print below the picture graphics "For non-motorized use only. Motorized use punishable by a $250. fine."

All across the 50 states, there's pedestrian use, and there's motorized use, and the two, just like oil and water, do not mix.
.................................................. ....

Hey, I would like to take a dirt motorcycle up and down the seven mile long Livermore Rd that runs from Waterville Valley to the Kangcamangus Hgwy. It would be fun, and it's doable, but I don't do it because the Forest Service has a sign that says it's a $250. violation. Plus, your car insurance bill takes a major hit. That's the rules....
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Old 10-12-2007, 05:22 AM   #14
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Default Snowmobile multi-use trail systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless
...So, what happens when a snowmobile, atv, or motorcycle decides to drive along a sidewalk? If the police department sees it, they get a ticket because it's a violation.

Ever go hikng in the nearby White Mountain National Forest. Hiking trails all have signs at the trail head that says in the fine print below the picture graphics "For non-motorized use only. Motorized use punishable by a $250. fine."

All across the 50 states, there's pedestrian use, and there's motorized use, and the two, just like oil and water, do not mix.
....
Actually, this is not always true.

Example? In nearby North Conway by the McDonalds (you should be familiar with that establishment) up to the new Home Depot the paved sidewalks, in the winter, are a shared resource utilized safely by both pedestrians & snowmobiles.

And anyone even remotely familiar with the myriad of snowmobile trail systems in this State is aware that there are many miles of trails that are multi use in the winter. These trails allow mixed snowmobile, snowshoe, cross country ski and dog sledding at the same time.

Snowmobiles have coexisted safely and efficiently on multi-use trails across the State for many years now. That being said, it is a fair question being raised here as to why that same approach is not being utilized in this particular instance.
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Old 10-12-2007, 12:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless
So, what happens when a snowmobile, atv, or motorcycle decides to drive along a sidewalk? If the police department sees it, they get a ticket because it's a violation.

Ever go hikng in the nearby White Mountain National Forest. Hiking trails all have signs at the trail head that says in the fine print below the picture graphics "For non-motorized use only. Motorized use punishable by a $250. fine."

All across the 50 states, there's pedestrian use, and there's motorized use, and the two, just like oil and water, do not mix.
.................................................. ....

Hey, I would like to take a dirt motorcycle up and down the seven mile long Livermore Rd that runs from Waterville Valley to the Kangcamangus Hgwy. It would be fun, and it's doable, but I don't do it because the Forest Service has a sign that says it's a $250. violation. Plus, your car insurance bill takes a major hit. That's the rules....

See, you already lost access to the Livermore Rd. What's next....more no rafting area's, or maybe a ban on 3 speed bikes...lousy brakes, they're dangerous!

Stop supporting exclusionary groups; If at all possible, multi use trails are the answer.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:53 PM   #16
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Default WOW Trail

Nice view,thanks Kiku. I miss my hometown. yeah,you should post that in World forum.Btw,you are back to bkk for good?
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Old 11-07-2009, 08:45 AM   #17
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Default Economic Value of Snowmobiling

Snowmobiling Major Revenue Generator For Local Economies
View All Articles and Press Releases FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Ed Klim


Annual Expenditure on Sport
in North America More Than $20 billion


Snowmobiling is the most popular winter activity for more than 4 million enthusiasts worldwide. It also is the single most important revenue generator for a number of businesses and snowbelt communities in the United States and Canada.

Last year in North America, snowmobilers spent more than $20 billion on equipment, clothing, accessories and vacations. "Snowmobiling means jobs for tens of thousands of people," said Ed Klim, president of the International Snowmobile Manufacturers Association (ISMA) in Haslett, Mich. "These jobs which further stimulate the economy and reduce unemployment and welfare payments. Every year, millions of dollars in tax revenue are generated from snowmobile-related business and tourism spending. Snowmobiling by itself has rejuvenated the economies of many communities."

State Growth

Snowmobiling is an integral part of Michigan's winter recreation and overall economy. In the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, winter revenues from snowmobiling often equal or even exceed dollars spent on summer recreational activities.

According to a study conducted by the Michigan Department of Park, Recreation and Tourism Resources and Michigan State University, the state's economy generates more than $1 billion annually in economic activity with 390,000 registered snowmobiles. On average, Michigan snowmobilers spend $5,700 each year on snowmobile recreation, tourism and products.

More than 100,000 Michigan households use the state's 6,200-mile trail network. Snowmobiling alone sustains more than 6,455 full-time jobs throughout the state.

During the winter season, Michigan resident snowmobilers traveled an estimated 114.3 million miles. An estimated $321 million in sales and $187 million in income resulted from these snowmobile trips throughout the state.

Michigan has also become a winter tourist mecca for out-of-state snowmobilers. Approximately 37 percent of all snowmobile trip spending comes from out of state.

The Wyoming Recreation Commission, working with the University of Wyoming, researched the economic impact of snowmobiling in the state. Their research discovered that over $200 million annually is generated through snowmobile-related activity.

Research conducted by the State University of New York (SUNY) showed that snowmobiling generates an estimated $476.2 million in direct and indirect revenue for New York state.

The SUNY study revealed that there are more than 150,000 registered snowmobiles and 59,000 snowmobile households in New York state. These same households spent an estimated $118 million on the life-style activity during 1996-97.

"Snowmobiling has the potential to ultimately become one of the most successful recreational activities in New York state," said Dave Perkins, past president of the New York State Snowmobile Association (NYSSA).

Other colleges and universities in several other snowbelt states also conducted snowmobile economic impact studies. Here's what they found:

New Hampshire: $1.2 billion generated annually (University of New Hampshire)

Maine: $460 million generated annually (University of Maine)

Vermont: $600 million generated annually (Johnson State College)

Pennsylvania: $95 million generated annually (Lebanon Valley College of Pennsylvania)
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:52 AM   #18
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What I don't understand is why (most) everyone is acting as if having a non-motorized trail is somehow against snowmobilers if they can't use it.

It seems pretty clear that there is an existing snowmobile trail along the tracks...why would snowmobilers want to also claim access to the WOW trail a few feet away? I would think snowmobilers would be relieved that there is an access for people on foot that won't get in their way.

I know as a cross-country skier I am looking forward to a trail where I won't have snowmobilers coming along fast and me worrying about getting out of the way in time. Having separate trails for each seems a bonus, not a discrimination against snowmobilers.
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Old 11-15-2009, 04:31 PM   #19
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Default No room in many places

Shed,

I'll give you my point of view. We are concerned because at MANY locations between Laconia and Meredith, there is no room for both trails. We know because we ride it. With the big money being spent by the WOW people, I am concerned that we'll just be booted off the trail. There are many bridges and causeways where there is absolutely no room for the WOW trail and the railroad to co-exist. I have looked at the WOW web site and I haven't seen anything that addresses the impossible locations.

At least now, in its current state, we both get to use the trail in the winter.
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Old 11-15-2009, 04:54 PM   #20
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I'll do some research and get back to you.
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