Boat with camcorder

[jrc]

On Sunday afternoon, 6/19, there was a small boat anchored off Eagle Island. It looked like a private boat, no obvious government markings. On board, someone had a camcorder and was videotaping the boats going through the channel between Eagle and Governors Island. So be on your best behavior, you don't want to be the example of what not to do.

[Cal]

Have to wait for the HB162 hearings and see who shows up with a tape.

[Woodsy]

I don't see any issue with camcorders.... especially at those pins! People routinely violate the 150' rule there, among other rules. The down side is on film you like like your going 60, even if your doing 30... LOL!

The MP's could make alot of money writing out violations at that spot. Maybe it should be a NWZ? People always have the option of passing between Eagle and Pitchwood to get in and out of the Weirs.

I was on the Lake all day yesterday, I traveled from Weirs to Alton to pick up my father, took him to lunch at Garwoods in Wolfeboro, watched the beginning of a sailboat race, back to Weirs to drop off a friend, over to Meredith, then dropped dad off back at Alton, then put the boat away back at Weirs. The lake was dead calm, slight breeze, I seriously doubt I saw more than 30 boats running around the lake. The only boat I took exception to was the Doris... What a wake she throws.... gotta watch for that next time!

Instead of a speed limit, maybe a few more no wake zones? Perhaps fund a few more full time MP officers? There was absolutely no need for a speed limit yesterday... There was no one on the lake!

Woodsy

[NHBUOY]

Hey Woodsy...Your NO WAKE option(s) sounds like an EXCELLENT compromise to a "blanket" speed limit...BUT...are all parties (pro & con) WILLING to compromise???... BTW...The lake was absolutely beautiful yesterday!!!...not too shabby out there today either...

[CEP]

I try to avoid that area at all times!
When I do have to go that way, I always slow down and keep to the right!
I guess that's an invitation for someone to go down the middle full speed!
I maintain slow speed and keep edging over to the right to get out of the way!
When I get pass the area, I take a deep breath and thank God I made it through!
I try to get through there early before the traffic builds up!
I think that is the most scarry place for me!

Whoever is taking pictures, I Hope it works!!!
One patrol boat there would stop that mess! Especially on busy weekends!

CEP

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

.

I seriously doubt I saw more than 30 boats running around the lake.

Woodsy

Winnis best kept secret...weekdays I love them

[Dave R]

Rather than a no wake zone, why not do as someone suggested last year, make Eagle Island the center (well roughly) of an on-the-water traffic circle. If all traffic has to go counter-clockwise, it would make that area so much safer. I do this there as a rule anyway (on the rare occasions I venture into that part of the lake). I don't think it would be hard to do as there are plenty of rocks to mount signs to.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Dave R

"...why not do as someone suggested last year, make Eagle Island the center (well roughly) of an on-the-water traffic circle. If all traffic has to go counter-clockwise, it would make that area so much safer..."

That was Mee'n'Mac's suggestion.

While I don't have a dog in this fight (never go there), it seems a traffic circle without a NWZ would be worse: Trying to keep 150' away morning (mass exits), and again evening (mass entries).

[Woodsy]

its really much easier to whip around and go between Eagle & Pitchwood. Especially once you get to know the markers off of Eagle.

I don't think I like the idea of a traffic circle on the water. That means if I am going from Glendale to Meredith, I would have to go between Eagle & Govenors... Thats ALOT of boat traffic thru those pins, especially on weekends, even if it was "One Way". I would rather just go straight between Eagle & Pitchwood.

Woodsy

[PROPELLER]

I have traveled between Eagle & Govenors Island many times during busy weekends when there are several boats in the area. Yes, it can be busy but I have never witnessed or been the victim of a dangerous situation. Sure I've seen boats violate the 150' regulation there & in other areas but was there imminent danger of a collision, no. I think many of the complaints from boaters regarding scary situations, close calls or complaints about this particular area or any other area stem from over reacting to a boat that they felt came too close. Maybe the alleged offending boater was more than 150' but the alleged victim did not think so & blew it out of proportion.

Many boaters do not boat very often like they do driving their car & may not feel comfortable in certain situations. These same boaters may feel very safe driving an interstate highway at 75 mph passing another vehicle with 5 feet between them but they feel very unsafe when a boat traveling 30 mph passes with as much has 100', 150' or whatever the situation may be.

When your out on the lake & there are several boats traveling in all different directions some people may find that unnerving or they are not comfortable with that situation but that does not mean its dangerous or that there are close calls. If there are boats around where your boating & they are traveling at reasonable speeds for the situation, are obeying the 150', are not driving erratically but you just feel unsafe because there are a few boats around, maybe you shouldn't be boating.

[Dave R]

I got to thinking about a speed limit and that spot. It would be great to see a video of heavy boat traffic through that area and everyone going 45 MPH. That would really highlight how silly a speed limit is on this lake.

[PROPELLER]

When ever traveling in that area I have not witnessed boaters exceeding 30-35 mph let alone exceeding the proposed 45 mph limit. The congestion does not allow it. The specific problem in this area seems to be congestion not speed. However, that does not mean that there are potential collisions when ever boats pass through that area.

[Mink Islander]

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

When ever traveling in that area I have not witnessed boaters exceeding 30-35 mph let alone exceeding the proposed 45 mph limit. The congestion does not allow it. The specific problem in this area seems to be congestion not speed. However, that does not mean that there are potential collisions when ever boats pass through that area.

Propeller, I too have boated on the lake for 20+ years and I have to tell you that I for one disagree strongly that there's not much collision risk there. Boats going in many directions, often big cruisers operating at "max wake" velocity showing complete disregard for any other boats they are passing. I've seen boats forced to take evasive action to avoid taking big cruiser waves over the bow. I've had boats pass me not 10 feet away simply because they don't want to be inconvenienced to queue up through there. Small wonder Marine Patrol has to practically anchor over there on busy weekends to help slow everyone down.

Agreed that the 45MPH speed limit isn't usually the issue there. It's the combination of violating the 150 ft rule (meaning passing far too close to other boats at way above headway speed) and the congestion. A no wake zone there would help immensely to solve that issue. Make it a lot easier for the MPs to identify and ticket offenders too! The NWZ between Pine and Bear is the proof that this approach works and works well.

And BTW, the ones who should stay off the lake are those who don't know or won't follow the boating laws. They make boating for everyone else more hazardous.

[Woodsy]

Mink...

This morning, I couldn't remember what Island had the no wake zone by the post office and include that as an example in my post. I didn't have my map at the office! Thanks for the names!

I think a NWZ right by those pins would be great... You still have 3 access points to get into Weirs, the Govenor's Island Bridge, Eagle & Governor's, and you could have the area between Eagle & Pitchwood be the "On Plane" route!

I have no problem with a NWZ there at all.....

Woodsy

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

That was Mee'n'Mac's suggestion.

While I don't have a dog in this fight (never go there), it seems a traffic circle without a NWZ would be worse: Trying to keep 150' away morning (mass exits), and again evening (mass entries).

I hate to toot my own horn but actually that was my suggestion.I believe M&M followed up on that thought.I just tried finding my post in the archives and and forgot how personal and long the posts got.Its no wonder Don shut down those threads.
While I'm not a big proponent of large no-wake zones(Merideth),I see the Eagle/Governors Island channel a prime spot for one.JMO SS

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I hate to toot my own horn but actually that was my suggestion.I believe M&M followed up on that thought.I just tried finding my post in the archives and and forgot how personal and long the posts got.Its no wonder Don shut down those threads.
While I'm not a big proponent of large no-wake zones(Merideth),I see the Eagle/Governors Island channel a prime spot for one.JMO SS

Just got back to the forum today and you are correct, I was not the originator of the idea but merely reminding people that some creative, if unorthodox, ideas might well help. Biggest issue I have with that area is that people won't queue up properly and wait their turn to go through and instead treat it like a merge on the interstate, "Me first, you whenever", instead of "zipping it" together like reasonable people. While a NWZ would no doubt help I'm not sure I like it (for purely selfish reasons ) When there's traffic present I always do the little zig-zag btw Stonedam, Eagle & Pitchwood. If there's a NWZ at the Gov-Eagle channel then there will be more traffic on my normal route And of course they then won't bother to swing wide enough to allow for other boats to pass, but will instead take the direct, straight line, buoy to buoy course. How about removing the few rocks by the last black tipped marker (btw Eagle and Pitchwood) and widen the "channel".


Added: I recalled SIKSUKRs idea here
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...12943#poststop
but also remember I had heard it on the olde forum from somebody ?? Turns out it was Steve C here
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=56270
Great minds think alike or one-in-the-same ?

[PROPELLER]

Mink, your entitled to your opinion as I am & I respectfully disagree. In the 25 years I have boated on Winnipesaukee I have not witnessed any situation in that area that came close to a collision even though there may have been violations. If you read my post I never said that it has never happened. Its just that in the 25 years with close to 2 thousand hours logged, I have not witnessed anything like that.

If you also read my posts in regard to this matter, I never said boaters who disregard the boating laws are welcomed. If you read between the lines what I am saying is that those who tell stories of close calls, near collisions & say it is scary to be out on the lake expect everyone to except their version as fact. I do not. For all we know the one complaining is the one who committed the violation. Or maybe the alleged offender was well beyond the 150' or was at 150' but the one complaining does not even know how far 150' is. Maybe the one complaining should have given away to another boat but did not because he/she did not know the rules governing safe passage.

I will stand by my statement that there are boaters who feel unsafe just because there are several boats in an area like Eagle Island & they are overwhelmed even when those other boats are not violating any boating laws. I actually have met & know some. What I am saying is these are the boaters that maybe over exaggerating a situation. If you read my post those are the boaters I said should not be boating. Simply being congested does not automatically translate into dangerous. I have also had boats pass well within 150' of my boat. While that is a violation & wrong it does not mean there was any danger of a collision. I have said several times in other posts that the most common violation is the 150' rule & there are other violations. That is where the Marine Patrol should focus their safety campaign. I also agree that those who do not know the boating laws or disregard them should not be boating.

[CEP]

I'm sorry if I used the word scarry! I guess it has an adverse reaction to some members of the forum.
Perhaps I should have used, uncomforable!
I don't know how many hours I have logged for I never kept track. All I know is that I have been boating on Winni for 41 years.
Whenever I enter that area, I slow down and keep as far right as possible and as close to the makers that I can. I will most likely be in a 20' or 25' Pontoon boat and nine time out of ten there will be someone come up on my stern, with a much bigger boat and pass to the left of me at a much higher rate of speed down the middle. They have the expression on their face, I have a bigger boat, I don't care about that 150' rule and I own this lake!
I will wave in good friendly gesture and all they do is put their noses in the air, look forward, ignore me and plow through!
They never look back to see what their wake is doing to me or anyone else in the area for that matter.
If you've ever riden in a pontoon boat, broadside wakes are not fun!
A roller coaster ride and very hard to keep on course.
Oh! btw they do pass within 50 to 75'!
I find those people selfish and uncomfortable!
People I have had in the boat with me always make some comment like,
Well! Excuse Me!!

This has been my experiences with that area, time and time again.
I hope I haven't offended anyone!

CEP

[codeman671]

What 150' rule are you talking about? The one that 50% of the boaters on Winni seem to break??? I have stated in the past and will do so again that the 150' rule is a serious and dangerous infraction for boaters to break, more so than speed. I would be willing to bet that on any given weekend day there are many more close calls due to distance of passing boats and poor handling/awareness or surroundings than speed. Every time I go out on the lake I see more people in family boats (small cruisers and bowriders) breaking the 150' rule, not following proper passing distances, ignoring directional markers, and paying heed to the rules of the road of passing and intercepting courses with other boats.

I do not see it in the GFBL crew, if anything I have seen them definitely minding their manners this year. If MP got more serious about nailing people for breaking the simple rules that every boater should be held to things like HB162 wold not be necessary. Lets get back to basics!

[ITD]

Should be interesting footage, especially as depth perception is lost when using a camcorder at maximum zoom. Would probably make boats that are a quarter mile apart look as though they are about to collide. In my opinion footage like this is useless for anything except documenting a summer vacation. The only way to really figure out if there is a consistent problem is with an overhead shot where you can determine distances reasonably,but that would cost a lot of money and prove a NWZ is not necessary, we won't see it.

I have to agree with Propellers assessment, its kind of like when you first start driving and you go on a busy highway for the first time, some people never are comfortable. The only time I have ever been concerned about having a collision there was when a guy kept lining up for a head on with me while passing through heading for the Weirs. I slowed to headway and the guy passed me at about 25 feet and 15mph with a big smile and wave. The boat had Anchor Marine Rental on the side. Other than that I've never felt in danger there, certainly when many boats are in the area you have to be on your toes and pay attention, but 99% of the time people obey the rules and its not a problem. The other 1% of the time, well those people are always out there and the rules don't matter.

[fatlazyless]

That area has some of the best waves for wake crawln' or surfn' anywhere, and a nwz would be their demise. One of my best haunts for surfin' around on my 16' alumacraft-40hp little fishing boat. It's like being out on the ocean, almost, what with all the crisscross wave action. You know the bottom structure between the spar marker and the corner G.I. mansion, home of the Summa Humma, is all smooth sand, no rock what-so-ever, and ten feet deep, so cruisn' through on the inside when it's crowded is a no-brainer! And don't forget to give a friendly wave. (: coolism)

[Woodsy]

At least we have a 150' rule! Although the rule is extremely difficult to enforce, given the difficult nature of judging actual distance on water. It is still a pretty handy law. It does tend to keep boats a safe distance apart.

Lake George doesn't have this rule. Last time I boated on Lake George, I was drifting by the big sheer rock face on Lake George when a small runabout startled me by driving by on plane approximately 10' off my gunwale... Can you imagine if Winni didn't have the 150" rule? Then there would be chaos!

At least with the 150' rule there is usually a safe separation of boats. the boats might come closer than 150' but usually they are far enough apart to insure safe passage.


Woodsy

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by ITD

{snip}I have to agree with Propellers assessment, its kind of like when you first start driving and you go on a busy highway for the first time, some people never are comfortable. {snip}

I was going to say the same thing ! While Capt B routinely cruises this area, I see more rude, inconsiderate and thougthless boating than I see truely dangerous boating. It's more of a PITA which is why I take the alternate route (sssshh). It's intriguing (to quote Mr Spock) to watch "Mee's" reaction (boating newbie) to other boat's when she's at the helm vs my own. It's just like when you started driving a car and were nervous about everything. However this is much preffered over the alternative, wherein the newbie goes about unaware of anything, blithely assuming everything will always be OK.

WRT the videotape, it can show the traffic volume and you can estimate miss distances by timing when the boat crosses (if it does) another's wake. If on plane and less than 3 secs pass then it's probably a 150' violation.