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Old 11-23-2020, 10:21 PM   #1
Winilyme
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Default $3,995,000 - Wow...

I've kept a close eye on Winni lakefront real estate listings for six years. At this point, in most cases, I can get a pretty good sense of when things are priced in the right ballpark (or at least I could pre-COVID). But every once in awhile I come across a listing that I totally don't get and this is one of them. I just can't imagine this home going for anywhere close to what's being asked. To me, knowing only what I read in the listing, this seems to be at least $1.0M more than what I'd guess it could sell for, even in this market and even with 1.5 acres and 200 feet waterfront.

Other than a fishing expedition and/or an overreaction to an obviously exuberant market, does it appear to you that this is a $4M dollar slice of heaven?

On the other hand, in this market, soon as I hit 'submit' it'll probably sell for $250K over asking.

https://nicolewatkins.com/listing/48...ough-nh-03254/
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Old 11-23-2020, 10:32 PM   #2
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That is a pretty terrific area, but that price does seem over the top. However, we have been chortling over the high prices, and just imagine what we could get if we put ours on the market, because it all seems just plain crazy! It will be interesting to see what the selling price is, and days on market.
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Old 11-23-2020, 10:32 PM   #3
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Current assessed value is $2,097,500
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Old 11-23-2020, 10:48 PM   #4
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Current assessed value for the property is $2,097,500. Compare it to 48 Catlin Estate Rd that is for sale as well. That property is for sale at $3,695,000 and assessed at $3,577,700 that has been on the market for 135 days.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:01 AM   #5
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You know there's no Walmart in that Moultonborough area, in that Moultonborough, Tuftonboro, Tamworth, Ossipee, Wolfeboro greater metropolitan area ....... therefore ...... the closest Walmart is either in Gilford of Plymouth. That makes 105 Hauser Estates Rd a long, long, long drive just to go to the store for something ...... is a long drive from anywhere to that area in Moultonborough.

...... is too much out-in-the-country ..... but, without those out-in-country, backwoods, "in current use" greatly reduced property taxes.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:47 AM   #6
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FLL: No worries! They have people to do their shopping for them and its a pretty good bet they don't go to Walmart.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:53 AM   #7
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I follow the Moultonborough real estate too. I know this area very well.
There was a house that sold on Bosn Way for $5 million in August. It had been listed for just under $6 million.

There was a house right around the corner that was for sale for $5 million. It did not sell and it was taken off the market. The house on Catlin Estate Road is just too big in my estimation.
If I had a choice, I would choose the house on Hauser Estates Road. Not every house will sell, but some people will get lucky.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:53 AM   #8
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There are some properties that come on in this frothy market that people put on at high prices trying to see if they can catch the BIG fish. It will be interesting to see what happens in the spring.

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Old 11-24-2020, 08:23 AM   #9
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Someone that pays $4mil for that has more money than brains....In any market.

If that's the case my island property is going on for $1.5mil!
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:33 AM   #10
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Ten thousand dollars is the limit for deducting your state and local taxes, i.e. property taxes, from your annual federal income tax. I always thought this would have a big effect on NH lake front homes as their property tax surpasses the $10,000-limit ($5000 if married filling seperately). It has been in effect since tax year 2017, which was due in 2018, so it is still relatively new to the scene.

Google 'IRS tax topic No. 503' to read all about it.
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
Someone that pays $4mil for that has more money than brains....In any market.

If that's the case my island property is going on for $1.5mil!
Agree. The question is if someone offered you 1.5 mill would you sell it? Always said if someone offered us 1mill we would sell. It appears by recent sales we can get it. But, now the number is 2 mill. Not greed, just small talk when the subject arises.

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Old 11-24-2020, 09:23 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Ten thousand dollars is the limit for deducting your state and local taxes, i.e. property taxes, from your annual federal income tax. I always thought this would have a big effect on NH lake front homes as their property tax surpasses the $10,000-limit ($5000 if married filling seperately). It has been in effect since tax year 2017, which was due in 2018, so it is still relatively new to the scene.

Google 'IRS tax topic No. 503' to read all about it.
You've repeated this message about a thousand times, I think we got it.
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Old 11-24-2020, 10:53 AM   #13
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Nothing is worth more than someone is willing to pay you for it. A property listed in Center Harbor this summer sold for over a million more than the asking price in less than 48 hours with numerous bidders. This listing has a great sandy beach, morning to late afternoon sun, probably no sunsets tucked in behind what is now Avery Point. Protected cove, not much for direct impact boat traffic. No need to apply for no wake zones. Occasional bass fisherman sitting at the end of the dock. No more than 15 minutes to Heath's without traffic or easier by boat. No rafting in the area. The only thing that would have real impact would be a next door neighbor that either rents to large groups all summer or an avid boat owner with straight pipes or a PA system stereo and a large family with multiple jet skis. Someone might either knock it down or build it up. Soft sand bottom would easily take a large mushroom anchor for a mooring and is protected from both strong south and northwest winds. What's it worth to leave your boat for 2 weeks and know it will still be okay where you left it? Looks like the old Craig property they used to ski about every day with their Evinrude Rogue.

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Old 11-24-2020, 11:13 AM   #14
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Default lacking (my) amenities

For $4MM, I'd want deeper water with a dock suitable for larger boats, not a temporary seasonal dock. Of course, if you just sold your house in the big city at $5MM to escape Covid, this could be a bargain.
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Old 11-24-2020, 01:18 PM   #15
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There are some properties that come on in this frothy market that people put on at high prices trying to see if they can catch the BIG fish.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the spring.
When the vaccine is readily available?
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Old 11-24-2020, 02:00 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ View Post
Agree. The question is if someone offered you 1.5 mill would you sell it? Always said if someone offered us 1mill we would sell. It appears by recent sales we can get it. But, now the number is 2 mill. Not greed, just small talk when the subject arises.

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Yes, I would take it and run in my case. Paid $445k this year but am putting well over $200k into it. It certainly will be desirable in the end, and worth more than my investment. But yes, I would take that money and run.
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Old 11-24-2020, 02:29 PM   #17
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Default replacement

As always, if you sell for a high price, when it comes to buying an equivalent replacement, you will buy at a high price and lose your sweat equity. And maybe you paid substantial capital gains tax? Or, you sit on the sidelines, wishing you still had a summer place, and wait for the next recession.
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Old 11-24-2020, 02:58 PM   #18
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I was thinking the same thing. We bought a fixer upper 6 years ago for 200K. I've put 100K into it but that's mostly just materials because I've done 90% of the work myself. I was told I could probably get around 500K but I don't think I could buy a better place for that so what's the point?
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As always, if you sell for a high price, when it comes to buying an equivalent replacement, you will buy at a high price and lose your sweat equity. And maybe you paid substantial capital gains tax? Or, you sit on the sidelines, wishing you still had a summer place, and wait for the next recession.
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Old 11-24-2020, 03:00 PM   #19
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I have seen many listing from that agent that are aggressively priced. Most times I think it is just people see if they can get someone to bite.....

However a quick look at this listing... it is boosting the following:

- 200 ft. of water front
-- with evaluation of land being about 6K per foot on the water, the land evaluates at 1.2M

1.6 Acres of land so there is plenty of room
A nice beach and apparently rock less looking water front
(note this is not a pearched beach)
A long dock

So it has a lot to offer, that today, would be hard to get permitted.

Now is it worth 4M???? Well If someone will pay that I am sure it is..... But maybe just maybe, only part of the family wants to sell, and holding on to it is the real goal....
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Old 11-24-2020, 10:45 PM   #20
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Default Bad water

@Lifeorelaxin
"A nice beach and apparently rock less looking water front
(note this is not a perched beach)
A long dock"
The dock, a temporary seasonal dock, requires little, if any, permit except perhaps "permit by notification". You need a "long dock" when the water depth is insufficient to moor a boat with any significant draft, e.g. a 24' deep vee hull with I/O in the down position, and unable to lower it to leave the dock in years like 2020 and 2016. With a western exposure, the dock is exposed to prevailing NW winds and would be unlikely to hold anything larger than 20-24 feet, if that. A pontoon would perhaps draw less water, but with a lot of canvas would move the dock in any significant wind.
Winnipesaukee waterfront, to me, is for boaters. This is not a boating site. It's an old camp with new addition at exorbitant price.
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Old 11-24-2020, 11:35 PM   #21
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@Lifeorelaxin

"A nice beach and apparently rock less looking water front

(note this is not a perched beach)

A long dock"

The dock, a temporary seasonal dock, requires little, if any, permit except perhaps "permit by notification". You need a "long dock" when the water depth is insufficient to moor a boat with any significant draft, e.g. a 24' deep vee hull with I/O in the down position, and unable to lower it to leave the dock in years like 2020 and 2016. With a western exposure, the dock is exposed to prevailing NW winds and would be unlikely to hold anything larger than 20-24 feet, if that. A pontoon would perhaps draw less water, but with a lot of canvas would move the dock in any significant wind.

Winnipesaukee waterfront, to me, is for boaters. This is not a boating site. It's an old camp with new addition at exorbitant price.
Have you looked at it on a map? Seems like a very protected location with regards to boat docking.

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Old 11-25-2020, 01:09 AM   #22
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Current assessed value is $2,097,500
Houses are selling for around 60% over town appraisal. My guess is it goes for around $3m.

2x town appraisal does happen, but unlikely in off season.
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Old 11-25-2020, 08:19 AM   #23
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On average you may be correct on the sale vs assessment but this one is way off the mark. Someone taking a shot at the moon or a realtor who tried to buy the listing by convincing the owners he would get them more than others. The beach is nice but not at the expense of good docking and deep water. Maybe you find a newcomer who doesn't realize that or has other priorities than boating. Low 2's would be my guess if it sells at all but since I already own waterfront I would be happy to be proven wrong.
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Old 11-25-2020, 08:56 AM   #24
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Houses are selling for around 60% over town appraisal. My guess is it goes for around $3m.

2x town appraisal does happen, but unlikely in off season.
When I bought my house 6 years ago the real estate agent said that property was selling right around town assessed value. Of course it was still a buyers market back then.
My assessed value has gone up 30% so 60% now sounds about right in this sellers market.
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Old 11-25-2020, 09:34 AM   #25
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Default ..... for just $15,000,000 ..... think about it!

With the Moultonborough property assessments likely to increase, here's hoping the town can agree to build a 15-million dollar community center. It needs to have a 5-million dollar indoor swimming pool, a 5-million dollar indoor ice arena, and a 5-million dollar indoor tennis and pickleball facility.

So, that's 5-mil each for swimming, ice, and tennis/pickleball which multiplied by three adds up to 15-mil. .......

Here's to building that new 15-million dollar Moultonborough Community Center ...... way-to-go ...... M-0-U-L-T-O-N-B-O-R-O-U-G-H !!! ..... ugh, ugh, ugh
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Old 11-25-2020, 09:45 AM   #26
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With the Moultonborough property assessments likely to increase, here's hoping the town can agree to build a 15-million dollar community center. It needs to have a 5-million dollar indoor swimming pool, a 5-million dollar indoor ice arena, and a 5-million dollar indoor tennis and pickleball facility.

So, that's 5-mil each for swimming, ice, and tennis/pickleball which multiplied by three adds up to 15-mil. .......

Here's to building that new 15-million dollar Moultonborough Community Center ...... way-to-go ...... M-0-U-L-T-O-N-B-O-R-O-U-G-H !!! ..... ugh, ugh, ugh
So Moultonborough can get inline with all the other towns around the lake with high property taxes.
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:48 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
With the Moultonborough property assessments likely to increase, here's hoping the town can agree to build a 15-million dollar community center. It needs to have a 5-million dollar indoor swimming pool, a 5-million dollar indoor ice arena, and a 5-million dollar indoor tennis and pickleball facility.

So, that's 5-mil each for swimming, ice, and tennis/pickleball which multiplied by three adds up to 15-mil. .......

Here's to building that new 15-million dollar Moultonborough Community Center ...... way-to-go ...... M-0-U-L-T-O-N-B-O-R-O-U-G-H !!! ..... ugh, ugh, ugh
I thought this was voted down...again...just recently?
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Old 11-25-2020, 12:20 PM   #28
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I thought this was voted down...again...just recently?
Oh yes! Itís an annual event.....having it put on the docket as a warrant article. Itís the ďI want, I want, I need, I gotta have it!Ē crowd vs. the frugal property owners who would have the privilege of funding it. It never ends...
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Old 11-25-2020, 12:50 PM   #29
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That price tag and no air conditioning!? I guess if you have that kind of money to blow on a property like that, you can pay people to fan and spritz you with cool water mist!


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Old 11-25-2020, 02:48 PM   #30
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I have not paid much attention to what they were trying to do in Moultonboro as I am not a resident but is that what it was? 15 million! An ice rink, tennis and community center! Thats a big ask for a small town. If an ice rink or tennis or fitness even remotely made financial sense then I would guess someone in the private sector would step up. It does not make sense so they must have the tax payers pick it up.
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Old 11-25-2020, 03:42 PM   #31
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I have not paid much attention to what they were trying to do in Moultonboro as I am not a resident but is that what it was? 15 million! An ice rink, tennis and community center! Thats a big ask for a small town. If an ice rink or tennis or fitness even remotely made financial sense then I would guess someone in the private sector would step up. It does not make sense so they must have the tax payers pick it up.
Winter, FLL is just having a little fun....$15 million is not the figure, but who knows? Maybe theyíll up it to that figure. 🤨 The waterfront taxpayers are not in favor of needless spending.
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Old 11-26-2020, 09:30 AM   #32
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On average you may be correct on the sale vs assessment but this one is way off the mark. Someone taking a shot at the moon or a realtor who tried to buy the listing by convincing the owners he would get them more than others. The beach is nice but not at the expense of good docking and deep water. Maybe you find a newcomer who doesn't realize that or has other priorities than boating. Low 2's would be my guess if it sells at all but since I already own waterfront I would be happy to be proven wrong.
Well thatís the thing. Newcomers have no idea of all the pros and cons of deep water access, water quality, exposure, dust, wind, exposure to the broads , septic limits etc.

The town appraisals donít factor in a lot of those details either.

Took me 3 properties and 30 years to figure it all out

There are $5m properties that I wouldnít buy if I could get it for $1m because of compromises I would not make at the $1m Mark. I want gorgeous sunsets without being exposed to ďthe broadsĒ. Among 20 other things. Not easy to find.
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Old 11-26-2020, 10:39 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winilyme View Post
I've kept a close eye on Winni lakefront real estate listings for six years. At this point, in most cases, I can get a pretty good sense of when things are priced in the right ballpark (or at least I could pre-COVID). But every once in awhile I come across a listing that I totally don't get and this is one of them. I just can't imagine this home going for anywhere close to what's being asked. To me, knowing only what I read in the listing, this seems to be at least $1.0M more than what I'd guess it could sell for, even in this market and even with 1.5 acres and 200 feet waterfront.

Other than a fishing expedition and/or an overreaction to an obviously exuberant market, does it appear to you that this is a $4M dollar slice of heaven?

On the other hand, in this market, soon as I hit 'submit' it'll probably sell for $250K over asking.

https://nicolewatkins.com/listing/48...ough-nh-03254/
It’s the location. Nice and close to Braun Bay.

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Old 11-26-2020, 04:15 PM   #34
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Default New name?

Covid Cove? Hot Springs Sands?
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Old 11-26-2020, 08:26 PM   #35
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Admittedly I might be a bit of a stickler for details but I canít imagine paying 4 million dollars for a property when the owner, realtor, or stager couldnít be bothered to tidy up for the pictures.

The first picture shows plastic Adirondack chairs thrown about.

The front and back exterior pictures of the home show lawns that were not raked and steps and decks that were not swept.

And then one of the bedrooms has the mattress just sitting on a box spring on the floor.

If I was trying to sell something for that much money Iíd want to prospective buyers to think I care more than those pictures show. The person who canít be bothered to buy a $79 dollar bed frame is not the person I would trust to have properly maintained the ď4 million dollarĒ home Iím purchasing.

And (possibly even more importantly) if I was a realtor standing to make a sizable commission on the sale of a place like this, Iíd want to present a much better image.
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Old 11-26-2020, 10:08 PM   #36
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Admittedly I might be a bit of a stickler for details but I canít imagine paying 4 million dollars for a property when the owner, realtor, or stager couldnít be bothered to tidy up for the pictures.

The first picture shows plastic Adirondack chairs thrown about.

The front and back exterior pictures of the home show lawns that were not raked and steps and decks that were not swept.

And then one of the bedrooms has the mattress just sitting on a box spring on the floor.

If I was trying to sell something for that much money Iíd want to prospective buyers to think I care more than those pictures show. The person who canít be bothered to buy a $79 dollar bed frame is not the person I would trust to have properly maintained the ď4 million dollarĒ home Iím purchasing.

And (possibly even more importantly) if I was a realtor standing to make a sizable commission on the sale of a place like this, Iíd want to present a much better image.
Great points - all of them. Even though those things didn't fully sink in when I opened the thread, I think your observations are a big part of why I shook my head in puzzlement over this listing. Also note the roof which is covered in pine needles. Blowing that off would have taken all of 30 minutes. The messy beach when looking out toward the water could have been cleaned up too. Look at comparatively priced listings and they are clean - if not pristine. Now of course, that may not be the everyday reality but staging the listing is an important part of selling it.
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Old 11-29-2020, 10:49 AM   #37
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Admittedly I might be a bit of a stickler for details but I canít imagine paying 4 million dollars for a property when the owner, realtor, or stager couldnít be bothered to tidy up for the pictures.

The first picture shows plastic Adirondack chairs thrown about.

The front and back exterior pictures of the home show lawns that were not raked and steps and decks that were not swept.

And then one of the bedrooms has the mattress just sitting on a box spring on the floor.

If I was trying to sell something for that much money Iíd want to prospective buyers to think I care more than those pictures show. The person who canít be bothered to buy a $79 dollar bed frame is not the person I would trust to have properly maintained the ď4 million dollarĒ home Iím purchasing.

And (possibly even more importantly) if I was a realtor standing to make a sizable commission on the sale of a place like this, Iíd want to present a much better image.
Couldnít agree more! Professional pics are a must! I wouldnít hire a realtor that doesnít use a professional photographer to take property pics.

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Old 11-29-2020, 12:27 PM   #38
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I was looking at a new listing that just came on in Wolfeboro. Granted its not at 4 million but the pictures that accompany it made me laugh. Stained mattresses with no covers, closeups of toilets, rooms with a solitary chair..... A realtor who lists something like that might as well hang a sign that says " Don't hire me, I am a moron"
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Old 11-29-2020, 12:38 PM   #39
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Question, what is the current % rate for a listing?

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Old 11-29-2020, 12:51 PM   #40
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I think it's 5% but someone with more knowledge may want to chime in.
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Question, what is the current % rate for a listing?

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Old 11-29-2020, 07:59 PM   #41
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Generally 5% but many realtors will cut that to 4% if they sell it without another realtor involved.

If you are listing a property you don't really want to go below the 5% because many realtors will not show a co-broke property to a client if their half of the deal is not at least 2 1/2%.
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Old 11-29-2020, 09:05 PM   #42
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Generally 5% but many realtors will cut that to 4% if they sell it without another realtor involved.

If you are listing a property you don't really want to go below the 5% because many realtors will not show a co-broke property to a client if their half of the deal is not at least 2 1/2%.
I think demand was so I high I couldn't get much response (as a buyer) from non listing agents. But when I called the listing agents they they were much more responsive.
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Old 12-01-2020, 11:04 AM   #43
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Admittedly I might be a bit of a stickler for details but I canít imagine paying 4 million dollars for a property when the owner, realtor, or stager couldnít be bothered to tidy up for the pictures.

The first picture shows plastic Adirondack chairs thrown about.

The front and back exterior pictures of the home show lawns that were not raked and steps and decks that were not swept.

And then one of the bedrooms has the mattress just sitting on a box spring on the floor.

If I was trying to sell something for that much money Iíd want to prospective buyers to think I care more than those pictures show. The person who canít be bothered to buy a $79 dollar bed frame is not the person I would trust to have properly maintained the ď4 million dollarĒ home Iím purchasing.

And (possibly even more importantly) if I was a realtor standing to make a sizable commission on the sale of a place like this, Iíd want to present a much better image.
Are you fricken kidding me? You would let those things get in your way of considering a property?

The entire process of "staging" a property is over rated. Because if it is staged in a different way then a potential buyer would want to see it, it can actually work against you....

What if the owner prefers not to use a bed frame some people don't.... Just because you think they are necessary doesn't mean they are....

So a couple of Adirondack chairs are blown over.... what if the person looking at the photos doesn't even like Adirondack chairs....

Perception is important don't get me wrong. But the things mentioned here are frivolous... If I was able to afford to look at property for 4M$.... I am likely also planning to come in and spend an additional 500K - 1M$ to make updates to the property to make it mine...

Last if I was buying a 4M$ piece of property, I would also be investing some money, in a thorough inspection of the home including heating and hot water systems as well as the structure itself to insure I knew what I was buying.

In the end the pictures are fine... only nit picky people would be offended by them.
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Old 12-01-2020, 12:15 PM   #44
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Are you fricken kidding me? You would let those things get in your way of considering a property?

The entire process of "staging" a property is over rated. Because if it is staged in a different way then a potential buyer would want to see it, it can actually work against you....

What if the owner prefers not to use a bed frame some people don't.... Just because you think they are necessary doesn't mean they are....

So a couple of Adirondack chairs are blown over.... what if the person looking at the photos doesn't even like Adirondack chairs....

Perception is important don't get me wrong. But the things mentioned here are frivolous... If I was able to afford to look at property for 4M$.... I am likely also planning to come in and spend an additional 500K - 1M$ to make updates to the property to make it mine...

Last if I was buying a 4M$ piece of property, I would also be investing some money, in a thorough inspection of the home including heating and hot water systems as well as the structure itself to insure I knew what I was buying.

In the end the pictures are fine... only nit picky people would be offended by them.
Likewise folks spending $4million could care less if it needs a new furnace.

I waived inspections to make my offers look stronger on several properties.

Inspections are mostly an escape clause or a plan to re-negotiate price and generally weaken your offer. You either really want the property or you don’t. You really gonna reject a $4m home over a leaky water heater? Or renegotiate for a $1000 off, when they have 2 cash backup offers waiting in wings? I don’t think so.

One place I made an offer on with no contingencies and site unseen.

That’s what you need to do in today’s market.

If you hesitate or put down any more contingencies than someone else, you’re out.
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Old 12-01-2020, 12:25 PM   #45
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It looks to me like someone just went with a "make me move" price on this. Shoot for the stars and if someone is dumb enough to pay it, pack up and go. There are far better properties on the lake for less money, even in todays market. The inside is clean but in need of updating. Outside the deck and roof looks ratty, it could certainly use maintenance and landscaping, and the driveway isn't even paved.

Maybe my freshly renovated island property should be $2mil now!
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Old 12-01-2020, 01:55 PM   #46
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Likewise folks spending $4million could care less if it needs a new furnace.

I waived inspections to make my offers look stronger on several properties.

Inspections are mostly an escape clause or a plan to re-negotiate price and generally weaken your offer. You either really want the property or you don’t. You really gonna reject a $4m home over a leaky water heater? Or renegotiate for a $1000 off, when they have 2 cash backup offers waiting in wings? I don’t think so.

One place I made an offer on with no contingencies and site unseen.

That’s what you need to do in today’s market.

If you hesitate or put down any more contingencies than someone else, you’re out.
You are definitely underestimating inspections. You have only highlighted small issues and left out major expensive issues such as structural integrity of framing, HVAC, roof replacement, foundation issues, mold, termites, dry rot etc. many buyers use inspections to justify they are paying for what they think they are getting and not as a negotiation tool.

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Old 12-01-2020, 02:02 PM   #47
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You are definitely underestimating inspections. You have only highlighted small issues and left out major expensive issues such as structural integrity of framing, HVAC, roof replacement, foundation issues, mold, termites, dry rot etc. many buyers use inspections to justify they are paying for what they think they are getting and not as a negotiation tool.


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Agreed, esp in this market where you are possibly paying over listing to get the property.
If it was a buyers market and you are making an offer well below listing then sometimes waving the inspection is a great tool knowing that you are going to go in and rehab the property anyway.

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Old 12-01-2020, 03:16 PM   #48
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Likewise folks spending $4million could care less if it needs a new furnace.

I waived inspections to make my offers look stronger on several properties.

Inspections are mostly an escape clause or a plan to re-negotiate price and generally weaken your offer. You either really want the property or you donít. You really gonna reject a $4m home over a leaky water heater? Or renegotiate for a $1000 off, when they have 2 cash backup offers waiting in wings? I donít think so.

One place I made an offer on with no contingencies and site unseen.

Thatís what you need to do in todayís market.

If you hesitate or put down any more contingencies than someone else, youíre out.
I agree people use inspections for re-negotiations, it's unbelievable what's happening to a friend. They are picking apart every little nit picky thing on what is clearly a perfect condition house. It's causing him a lot of unnecessary pain as he finally said sorry no deal and moved onto the next offer he had. I have a good friend who owns a real estate business in Mass with 6 offices - she HATES what it's all turned into.

I also agree on a 4M property that the owners are dumping another $$$ into it and most likely only care about the big ticket stuff which is not the furnace.
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Old 12-01-2020, 03:42 PM   #49
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Default Agreed?

I think by now, we're all agreed that this is not a $4MM property.
I'm not generally enthusiastic about home inspections, but last house, I took my HVAC guy with me for the walk through. (No charge) He said the furnace was no good and the seller knocked $5K off without hesitation. He apparently had more credibility than a home inspector. Ironic to me however, is that wouldn't buy a boat without a survey. My experience is that boat surveys, at least on larger boats are more detailed than home inspections--multi: engines, heads, AC systems, electric systems, generator etc, etc. I had one home inspector turn on a furnace, it fired and he turned it off, gave a good report. In reality, the furnace would only run about 5 minutes and then shut itself off because the system was perforated and it would pump CO into the house. His fee was a waste. Yes, I know banks require it, if that's how you're buying.
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Old 12-01-2020, 03:50 PM   #50
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I think there are some broad generalizations being made. A lot of people that have accumulated the wealth needed to afford a $4mm house got that way because they invested wisely and didn't squander money. I agree that people that drop that kind of coin on a house will likely want to make improvements to make the house fit their tastes. I don't consider replacing a furnace, a roof, etc. an improvement. It's deferred maintenance the prior owner should have done and reduces the budget for putting in flooring, kitchens, etc. If someone is looking at that house and seeing plastic adirondack chairs all over the back yard, a roof covered in pine needles, etc. I think a pretty fair question to ask is what kind of care of the house did the owner take.

Regarding the price tag, that neighborhood is around the corner from me and is really nice but that house isn't a $4mm house.
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Old 12-01-2020, 04:32 PM   #51
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As far as inspections go. If itís a 30 year old house and the original HVAC. It doesnít matter if it works or not. Itís essentially worthless. Similar on a roof, if itís 20 years old it needs replacing ďsoonĒ if it leaks or not. If itís a 10 year older house and the HVAC is broken, just fix it.

If the house is $250K these things matter. At $4M they are a minor nuisance.

Structural issues that are not obvious, in expensive homes are not that common.

Fir the most part, my experience with building inspectors on both sides has been a joke. But they can be handy for other reasons (for the buyer).

Septic inspection and site assessment are way more important.
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Old 12-01-2020, 05:02 PM   #52
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Are you fricken kidding me? You would let those things get in your way of considering a property?

The entire process of "staging" a property is over rated. Because if it is staged in a different way then a potential buyer would want to see it, it can actually work against you....

What if the owner prefers not to use a bed frame some people don't.... Just because you think they are necessary doesn't mean they are....

So a couple of Adirondack chairs are blown over.... what if the person looking at the photos doesn't even like Adirondack chairs....

Perception is important don't get me wrong. But the things mentioned here are frivolous... If I was able to afford to look at property for 4M$.... I am likely also planning to come in and spend an additional 500K - 1M$ to make updates to the property to make it mine...

Last if I was buying a 4M$ piece of property, I would also be investing some money, in a thorough inspection of the home including heating and hot water systems as well as the structure itself to insure I knew what I was buying.

In the end the pictures are fine... only nit picky people would be offended by them.
Staging is not overrated. Nearly all real estate agents focus on this because first impressions are lasting ones and it gives them a competitive edge. They aren't doing it for fun. They will also tell you to paint the walls, get rid of personal photos, clean up the basement, re-carpet the dining room and maybe rearrange some furniture. Simply stated, a place that looks clean and well-cared for is more attractive than one that isn't. It gets folks in the door who might otherwise walk by. Especially these days when people make quick decisions over the Internet. If they see pictures of unkempt properties, then a perfectly qualified buyer just might just move on to the next listing. I would likely approach just such a property with, at a minimum, elevated suspicion.

Especially a property like this where they are trying to get $4M for a $2.5M+. Why wouldn't you take the simple extra steps to clean it up? Yes, a lot of it's smoke and mirrors, but if it gets more people in the door then why not? Take two properties, exactly the same, except one is clean and the other is not. The clean one is going to get more interest and better offers.

Of course, in a very narrow slice of some very rare market, such as Winni lakefront during this Pandemic, people are stumbling over one another to buy those properties, all the while practicing less due diligence than they would in normal times. Staging is probably less critical in these situations. However, this is the exception rather than the rule. Still, to get a bit of advantage, why wouldn't you just do the simple things at least? It doesn't take a huge amount of effort to turn the chairs over.

A good thing with all this is that there still are people, like the owner/realtor of this property, that apparently don't give a hoot about staging. That does create opportunities for folks like you, LIfor, that place little emphasis on these things and will always investigate further. Maybe you can get a better deal because of that. But in that case we're talking about an advantage for buyers/still a disadvantage for sellers.
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Old 12-01-2020, 05:22 PM   #53
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From my personal experience over the last decade, I can give you a few comments on the marketing/photography of home sales from both the selling and buying perspective. Just my opinion...

Selling: In 2014, wife and I decided we were moving within Westchester County NY. We used a "friend" who was a well thought-of realtor. Well, we pulled the listing after 3 months and I believe we had less than 10 showings. There didn't seem to be too much interest. We paused to regroup.

We decided to try again, after a 6 month break. We thought about it and decided to research, ask questions, etc. We found the top realtor (by sales and reputation) in the area and decided to interview her. Turns out she interviewed us, as she was that in demand. She accepted us, put us through our paces...made us stage our house, remove things, etc. She brought in a professional photographer (on her dime). We had 40 realtors at the realtor open house. We had 2 offers on the day it was officially listed. Sold it for the same amount that the first realtor couldn't get a nibble at...

Buying: We purchased a home in Wolfeboro last year. I don't want to name names, but it was not marketed well, and because of that, it sat for 3-4 months and it should have sold quickly. The pictures were done with a cell phone. Because of that...even though we found the house late, we lucked out. Had it been marketed better, we'd not have been able to get it. Don't let lousy photos keep you away. As a buyer, poor marketing can be an ally, as you might have a diamond in the rough.
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Old 12-01-2020, 06:19 PM   #54
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I agree people use inspections for re-negotiations, it's unbelievable what's happening to a friend. They are picking apart every little nit picky thing on what is clearly a perfect condition house. It's causing him a lot of unnecessary pain as he finally said sorry no deal and moved onto the next offer he had. I have a good friend who owns a real estate business in Mass with 6 offices - she HATES what it's all turned into.

I also agree on a 4M property that the owners are dumping another $$$ into it and most likely only care about the big ticket stuff which is not the furnace.
Sellers need to tell buyers during the offer and accept phase not to bother trying to nickel and dime after the inspection process. That they will fix fundamental problems but not normal wear and tear.
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:58 PM   #55
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After reading all of the comments and looking at the listing, I just had to look up the owner.

He is a recent widower, and his wife of 63 years was a big contributor and volunteer to the M. Library for many years, as well as a Minister in Meredith. She passed 3 years ago.

At his age, I'm thinking he is less concerned with the chairs being down outside and just wants to downsize into a smaller home that doesn't hold so many memories.

I hope he gets though the winter in an easier place to manage.
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Old 12-02-2020, 07:19 AM   #56
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As a fellow waterfront property owner I truly hope the owner of this place gets over the asking price. I think any negative comments are directed at the realtor rather than the owner. They either mislead the man into what could be expected in order to get the listing (very common) or all involved understand they are just taking a wild shot at the moon with nothing to lose. Either way given what the realtor would make on this deal a few of the pics could have been done a bit better.
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Old 12-02-2020, 08:37 AM   #57
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As a fellow waterfront property owner I truly hope the owner of this place gets over the asking price. I think any negative comments are directed at the realtor rather than the owner. They either mislead the man into what could be expected in order to get the listing (very common) or all involved understand they are just taking a wild shot at the moon with nothing to lose. Either way given what the realtor would make on this deal a few of the pics could have been done a bit better.
A 4 million dollar property would pay a hefty commission. The reality should have taken it upon herself/himself to higher someone to clean the place up and take professional pictures.
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:44 PM   #58
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I obviously meant the current owner no ill will and I wish him nothing but the best as he moves on from his home. And if someone pays him 4 million dollars for his home more power to him. At the end of the day he owns the place and I'm commenting on a message board in the middle of the work day to avoid the stacks of work on my desk.

However, I do agree with others that I think this reflects poorly on the realtor. If we assume a split of the 5% commission between the buying and selling realtors, and then also assume that the realtor splits half of the commission with their broker as I know many do: 5% of 4 million is 200,000, half of that is 100,000 and half of that is 50,000. So we're looking a possible 50k dollar payday for the realtor and they didn't put the effort in to tidying up the place a little. Sweeping, raking, and stacking chairs doesn't cost any money.

And LIforrelaxing, while you might argue that staging is pointless because rich people will spend money anyhow, I don't think you turn anyone off by having the place look well kempt. In other words, no one looks at a clean porch on the listing and says "Nope, not for me, I don't see pine needles all over the place and how dare they neatly arrange their chairs around the fire pit." Yet, posting it the way they did turned me and at least a few others off.

Also, how far does the "rich people are gonna spend money anyways" theory go? If you bought a new Bentley Continental GT should you expect the car to be clean when you pick it up at the dealer? Or is it assumed since you have the money to buy the Bentley you have the money to take it through the car wash too?
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:54 PM   #59
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I think that house had to be at least partially staged. I can't imagine a single 83 year old man keeping his house like that.
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Old 12-02-2020, 01:52 PM   #60
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I obviously meant the current owner no ill will and I wish him nothing but the best as he moves on from his home. And if someone pays him 4 million dollars for his home more power to him. At the end of the day he owns the place and I'm commenting on a message board in the middle of the work day to avoid the stacks of work on my desk.

However, I do agree with others that I think this reflects poorly on the realtor. If we assume a split of the 5% commission between the buying and selling realtors, and then also assume that the realtor splits half of the commission with their broker as I know many do: 5% of 4 million is 200,000, half of that is 100,000 and half of that is 50,000. So we're looking a possible 50k dollar payday for the realtor and they didn't put the effort in to tidying up the place a little. Sweeping, raking, and stacking chairs doesn't cost any money.

And LIforrelaxing, while you might argue that staging is pointless because rich people will spend money anyhow, I don't think you turn anyone off by having the place look well kempt. In other words, no one looks at a clean porch on the listing and says "Nope, not for me, I don't see pine needles all over the place and how dare they neatly arrange their chairs around the fire pit." Yet, posting it the way they did turned me and at least a few others off.

Also, how far does the "rich people are gonna spend money anyways" theory go? If you bought a new Bentley Continental GT should you expect the car to be clean when you pick it up at the dealer? Or is it assumed since you have the money to buy the Bentley you have the money to take it through the car wash too?
Agents typically don't split 50/50 with their broker unless they cut a really bad deal when they signed on. Sometimes listing agents will favor the split towards themselves, like a 3% to listing agent/ 2% to buyers agent. This usually pisses off buyers agents, but money is money.
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Old 12-02-2020, 05:59 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
Agents typically don't split 50/50 with their broker unless they cut a really bad deal when they signed on. Sometimes listing agents will favor the split towards themselves, like a 3% to listing agent/ 2% to buyers agent. This usually pisses off buyers agents, but money is money.
The listing office gets a cut also so that's usually why the listing agent gets more.
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Old 12-02-2020, 07:20 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
Agents typically don't split 50/50 with their broker unless they cut a really bad deal when they signed on. Sometimes listing agents will favor the split towards themselves, like a 3% to listing agent/ 2% to buyers agent. This usually pisses off buyers agents, but money is money.
I absolutely stand corrected then. If anything I was trying to put together the most conservative estimate of what the listing agent stood to gain. And again, no insult intended to anyone involved, just some constructive criticism from the cheap seats.
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