Boat and trailer weight?

[Aguamenti]

Sorry, this is not Winni-specific, but I don't belong to a boating forum yet. Can anyone give me an idea of what an 18' bow rider and trailer might weigh?

We are currently shopping for a new vehicle and plan to buy a boat this summer. I just want to make sure that I purchase an SUV with enough towing capacity to handle hauling the boat.

Towing needs would be from MA to NH and back at the start and end of the season, and during the summer we'd just be launching locally.

Thanks for any advice.

[robmac]

First what brand of bowrider? Manufacturers weight and construction varies,I would figure 4500 lbs. for a rough number.When choosing a tow vehicle I oversize the vehicle because depending on fuel and gear the load weight changes. By oversizing you are less concerned when towing with extra items in the boat. Good luck.

[Slickcraft]

I agree with robmac, overbuy on towing capacity.

First, IMHO you never want to be towing at or near the rated capacity. You simply give up the margin that may save your skin in an emergency maneuver or stop.

Second, you may buy a bigger boat in a year or two. Not at all unlikely.

So if that 18' boat plus trailer and gear looks like 4,500 lbs, I would look for a half ton 4wd truck rated to pull 9,000 lbs. Any full size truck can be configured to do that. Your will appreciate the 4wd when pulling the boat up a wet ramp. Also, none of the trucks are worth much in snow with only 2wd.

My 2 cents.

[Lakepilot]

I agree with all of the above. Also my experience is that if you want an 18' boat now you may end up with a 20' boat or larger. And after you buy a new boat you'll soon get the urge for something bigger.

[ursa minor]

I thought I'd share our somewhat similar experience for information, obviously others may have a different take on this:

We currently have a 2006 Ford Explorer V6 4X4 that is rated by Ford at 5,000 lbs towing capacity. I upgraded to a 2" drawbar style hitch as the factory mounted hitch uses the smaller 1" style drawbar. We have 22 foot cuddy cabin with a sterndrive; the weight with engine and some fuel is about 4,200 lbs. We also tow seasonally (Spring and Fall) between the Lake and Massachusetts, about 150 miles one way. When towing, we try to avoid the heavier traffic times (leave early) and I generally tow between 55 and 60 mph on the highway. With overdrive locked out, the engine stays right in the middle of it's torque band at these speeds and will generally stay in 4th gear unless climbing a long grade. Also, with the 4X4, pulling the boat out even on dirt ramps has not been a problem.

What I want to emphasize is the importance of good trailer brakes. We have tandem axle trailer that uses so called "surge" brakes on the front trailer axle. The trailer coupler has a hinged connection and a hydraulic master cylinder. When the truck brakes are applied, the trailer "pushes" forward. As this happens, the master cylinder pistion compresses and starts to apply the trailer brakes. I've found that once you feel the trailer "push", keeping light but steady pressure on the tow vehicle brakes will allow the trailer brakes to do most of the stopping. We've had one panic stop situation on a side road where someone cut us off and were able to stop without incident. Because they don't get used a lot and then get dunked when they are being used, there's more maintenance required for the trailer brakes than on the truck. I usually check and repack the wheel bearings once a year and go over the brake components at that time to be on the safe side.

We've been doing this now for many seasons and this is the third Explorer we've had; no issues with any of them. When not towing, we average 23 mpg on the highway. When towing it seems to be more like 13. Again, this is a seasonal thing for us. If I were towing every weekend a larger truck / SUV might be a consideration but for seasonal towing, the better overall fuel economy and size of the Explorer has been a better fit for us. Boat and vehicle manufacturer's web sites will generally have the weights and towing capacities listed. Good luck with your search!

[ursa minor]

I thought I'd share our somewhat similar experience for information, obviously others may have a different take on this:

We currently have a 2006 Ford Explorer V6 4X4 that is rated by Ford at 5,000 lbs towing capacity. I upgraded to a 2" drawbar style hitch as the factory mounted hitch uses the smaller 1" style drawbar. We have 22 foot cuddy cabin with a sterndrive; the weight with engine and some fuel is about 4,200 lbs. We also tow seasonally (Spring and Fall) between the Lake and Massachusetts, about 150 miles one way. When towing, we try to avoid the heavier traffic times (leave early) and I generally tow between 55 and 60 mph on the highway. With overdrive, the engine stays right in the middle of it's torque band at these speeds and will generally stay in 4th gear unless climbing a long grade. Also, with the 4X4, pulling the boat out even on dirt ramps has not been a problem.

What I want to emphasize is the importance of good trailer brakes. We have tandem axle trailer that uses so called "surge" brakes on the front trailer axle. The trailer coupler has a hinged connection and a hydraulic master cylinder. When the truck brakes are applied, the trailer "pushes" forward. As this happens, the master cylinder pistion compresses and starts to apply the trailer brakes. I've found that once you feel the trailer "push", keeping light but steady pressure on the tow vehicle brakes will allow the trailer brakes to do most of the stopping. We've had one panic stop situation on a side road where someone cut us off and were able to stop without incident. Because they don't get used a lot and then get dunked when they are being used, there's more maintenance required for the trailer brakes than on the truck. I usually check and repack the wheel bearings once a year and go over the brake components at that time to be on the safe side.

We've been doing this now for many seasons and this is the third Explorer we've had; no issues with any of them. When not towing, we average 23 mpg on the highway. When towing it seems to be more like 13. Again, this is a seasonal thing for us. If I were towing every weekend a larger truck / SUV might be a consideration but for seasonal towing, the better overall fuel economy and size of the Explorer has been a better fit for us. Boat and vehicle manufacturer's web sites will generally have the weights and towing capacities listed. Good luck with your search!

[rick35]

We went through the same thing a few years back. We wanted to get a IO that was small enough to pull behind a 6 cylinder suv. After shopping around through most the 18 footers we decided on a 2008 Bayliner 175. Its a low end boat feature-wise but its also the lightest at 2300 pounds boat and trailer. With gas and gear its under 3000 pounds which is towable with the the six cylinder and doesn't require trailer brakes. There are other 18 footers that weigh over 3000 pounds (Sea Ray, for one) that will require more towing capacity.

[robmac]

If I may add something,when I choose a tow vehicle I also make sure it can stop the trailer without trailer brakes. Brakes fail,and you won't know it until you need them the most. JMHO

[KDL]

In addition to the tow rating, also be aware of the combined gross vehicle weight rating, the weight of towed trailer, tow vehicle, and weight of people and gear in the tow vehicle. If you pack up the family and all you gear for a week away, it's easy to exceed the rating. Towing a 24' bowrider with a 3/4 ton truck, I can exceed my CGVWR without trying too hard.

[Belmont Resident]

Another consideration is the wheelbase of the tow vehicle. Many small-medium SUV vehicles have a significantly shorter wheelbase. When you encounter wind they tend to get pushed all over the road by what they are towing as well as by the wind.
We travel a lot and see a lot of people towing things with vehicles that should not be towing that big or long a trailer. The bottom line is the manufacturers can state anything they want as far as what the vehicle will move in a straight line over flat roads on a calm day. Common sense should be used on the owner’s part to determine what is truly safe. Unfortunately if you have not spent much time towing with different vehicles you don’t have anything to base a decision on except for the vehicles sticker.
Personally I wouldn’t tow any boat over 17’ with anything less than a full size PU or SUV. Remember if you do get involved in an accident they will look into weather the tow vehicles is qualified to be towing a load of that size. They will also look at the length as well as the weight and weather it has stabilizer bars. In most cases you be ok towing just about anything unless you using a vehicle with a business name on it and as long as you don’t have a problem on the road.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

Another consideration is the wheelbase of the tow vehicle. Many small-medium SUV vehicles have a significantly shorter wheelbase. When you encounter wind they tend to get pushed all over the road by what they are towing as well as by the wind.
We travel a lot and see a lot of people towing things with vehicles that should not be towing that big or long a trailer. The bottom line is the manufacturers can state anything they want as far as what the vehicle will move in a straight line over flat roads on a calm day. Common sense should be used on the owner’s part to determine what is truly safe. Unfortunately if you have not spent much time towing with different vehicles you don’t have anything to base a decision on except for the vehicles sticker.
Personally I wouldn’t tow any boat over 17’ with anything less than a full size PU or SUV. Remember if you do get involved in an accident they will look into weather the tow vehicles is qualified to be towing a load of that size. They will also look at the length as well as the weight and weather it has stabilizer bars. In most cases you be ok towing just about anything unless you using a vehicle with a business name on it and as long as you don’t have a problem on the road.

I'm not convinced on the wheelbase thing. Tractor trailers disprove it. I think most trailer instability problems are caused by too little tongue weight for the trailer, too much tongue weight for the tow vehicle, lack of a weight distributing hitch and or stabilizer when required, defective equipment, and and poor driving. I've also read my insurance policy and there's nothing in it about tow capacity.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I'm not convinced on the wheelbase thing. Tractor trailers disprove it. I think most trailer instability problems are caused by too little tongue weight for the trailer, too much tongue weight for the tow vehicle, lack of a weight distributing hitch and or stabilizer when required, defective equipment, and and poor driving. I've also read my insurance policy and there's nothing in it about tow capacity.

But from what I've been told it's not your insurance company you need to worry about in an accident, it's what the DOT and State police determine.
Any investigation will determine weather your insurance company will even be required to settle on a claim.
One thing I've learned over the years, more is better when towing. Longer wheel base, bigger engine, heavier tow vehicle all add up to a more stable tow.

[Lakepilot]

I regularly read another forum specific to towing. I've seen both sides of the length issue and it never gets resolved. I am on the side that worry's about real short wheelbase vehicles towing long single axle trailers. This requires more expertise and experience on the part of the driver.

The issue of being overweight comes up frequently. Every time someone asks if anyone has ever been either cited (non-commercial) or denied insurance coverage for being over weight the answer has always been no.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Lakepilot

I regularly read another forum specific to towing. I've seen both sides of the length issue and it never gets resolved. I am on the side that worry's about real short wheelbase vehicles towing long single axle trailers. This requires more expertise and experience on the part of the driver.

The issue of being overweight comes up frequently. Every time someone asks if anyone has ever been either cited (non-commercial) or denied insurance coverage for being over weight the answer has always been no.

I think long wheelbase vehicles are inherently more stable, but there are things you can should do to fix instability issues. I would rather drive a well setup Jeep CJ towing a long trailer than an F250 crew cab long bed towing a short trailer with inadequate tongue weight.


There are no laws in NH regarding truck/car/SUV manufacturer's rated towing capacity. The only laws we have dictate the maximum weight an axle can carry, the trailer weight limit for trailer brake requirements, and that tire capacities can not be exceeded.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I think long wheelbase vehicles are inherently more stable, but there are things you can should do to fix instability issues. I would rather drive a well setup Jeep CJ towing a long trailer than an F250 crew cab long bed towing a short trailer with inadequate tongue weight.


There are no laws in NH regarding truck/car/SUV manufacturer's rated towing capacity. The only laws we have dictate the maximum weight an axle can carry, the trailer weight limit for trailer brake requirements, and that tire capacities can not be exceeded.

Dave, not matter what you tow with, inadequate tongue weight has the same effect, trailer wanders. And there is no way ANY jeep is going to hold a candle to a full size truck, be it Ford, GM or Dodge. The short wheelbase is always going to make handling over the road harder. Especially in windy conditions, snow, ice or water. Bigger is just more stable.

[NoBozo]

I tow a 20' ...2700# runabout (w350 V8) on a single axle trailer with a 2007 Tacoma V6. 4X4. ..(245 HP) The tongue weight is 235 pounds. I know this because I put a bathroom scale under the "V" wedge under the tounge It tows fine. You can adjust this tongue weight by moving the boat fore or aft on the trailer by mere inches. NB

[BroadHopper]

I'm not so sure about the wheelbase thing either. I have towed with several trucks. short bed, long beds, extended cabs, crews etc. I find the Dodge Dakota extended cab with 2000 lbs capacity pulls very well. There is nothing like a small V8 for pulling capacity. It's the torque not the horsepower. I pulled a 5,000 lbs boat and trailer from Maryland with ease. I also delivered a 6500 lbs boat and trailer to Lake Norman in NC. Pulled like a charm. I love that Dakota with a 318 and 4x4.

Beware when traveling interstate. States varies as to actual maximum capacity for a certain size truck. States also varies as to the size and weight of the trailer and brake requirements when not pulling for hire. Don't think that they are not going to pull you over because you are hauling 'redneck'. They will!

[NoBozo]

My 2007 Tacoma V6 4X4 Auto transmission.. The Owners manual recomends that I TOW in 4th gear....NOT Overdrive 5th. This drops my gas mileage to about 16+ highway mpg.

Normal MPG for me on this truck is 22 Highway.

I wish I still had the Tacoma STICK. I used to get 22mpg going over the mountains to Rutland with this same boat, towing with a 1995 Tacoma V6 4X4 (190HP) ....STICK Shift. Just Sayin.. NB

[trfour]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I'm not convinced on the wheelbase thing. Tractor trailers disprove it. I think most trailer instability problems are caused by too little tongue weight for the trailer, too much tongue weight for the tow vehicle, lack of a weight distributing hitch and or stabilizer when required, defective equipment, and and poor driving. I've also read my insurance policy and there's nothing in it about tow capacity.

The tractor's weight and tire foot print allow them to haul more weight, in a towing situation.
I think that we are talking about boat and trailer towing and I would recommend an longer wheel based vehicle, ( not that a shorter wheel based vehicle couldn't do the job as well ). It would depend on how far you intend to tow it, and also in what weather...

Also, no matter what you decide to tow with, an automatic transmission automatically requires more horse power to operate than an stick shift, and you will see that in your fuel mileage. ( Automatically less, and stick shift more ).

In these times, grabbing another gear helps as well!

Terry
_____________________________________

[John A. Birdsall]

You know I had a Dodge Dakota, 4 cylinder, std trans. Nothing much too it but it had a radio. I pulled my 16'6" Sea Sprite, IO (had a bigger engine than the truck) from Norwich to Alton Bay and back on just about a weekly trip. Never had a problem. My mechanic thought it looked funny cause the boat and trailer was much bigger than the truck. My dad asked me one week why do you take the boat home? To keep it out of your way. It was the last time I took it home unless I was doing some repairs, or as in the case of the last trip I was gonna put it up for sale.

[Winnisquamguy]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I would rather drive a well setup Jeep CJ towing a long trailer than an F250 crew cab long bed towing a short trailer with inadequate tongue weight.

I am still trying to wrap my head around this statement. Any weight distribution hitch is going to tow better than a regular hitch. To say you would rather tow with a Jeep CJ I am assuming you don't own anything else to tow with, or its really very comfortable.Most people tow things with pickups and the reason is they just tow better. All this talk about inadequate tongue weight can usually be fixed my moving your load back or forward.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by trfour

The tractor's weight and tire foot print allow them to haul more weight, in a towing situation.
I think that we are talking about boat and trailer towing and I would recommend an longer wheel based vehicle, ( not that a shorter wheel based vehicle couldn't do the job as well ). It would depend on how far you intend to tow it, and also in what weather...

Also, no matter what you decide to tow with, an automatic transmission automatically requires more horse power to operate than an stick shift, and you will see that in your fuel mileage. ( Automatically less, and stick shift more ).

In these times, grabbing another gear helps as well!

Terry
_____________________________________

Automatic transmissions also offer a higher towing capacity than a stick shift. Not much more but more....

Dan

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Winnisquamguy

I am still trying to wrap my head around this statement. Any weight distribution hitch is going to tow better than a regular hitch. To say you would rather tow with a Jeep CJ I am assuming you don't own anything else to tow with, or its really very comfortable.Most people tow things with pickups and the reason is they just tow better. All this talk about inadequate tongue weight can usually be fixed my moving your load back or forward.

My point was that I'd rather tow with a short wheelbase vehicle that is set up properly than a long wheelbase vehicle that has an unstable trailer attached. That's all.

[gf2020]

Whole lot of misinformation in this thread.

Suffice to say there are very few new mid-size SUVs that still make decent tow vehicles. The new Durango and Grand Cherokee and the venerable 4Runner are about it.

You may want to consider a 1/2 ton crew cab pickup for your next vehicle. Most of these trucks will match your current SUV for fuel economy and give you far greater capacity for future towing or hauling.

[Grandpa Redneck]

We had a 2007 Explorer, it towed fine EXCEPT in cross winds, then it was very hard to keep it in your lane, we averaged 16.5-17 mpg with it when not towing.(5500 lbs tow rating) Because of the issues with cross winds we traded it in on a 2009 Expedition, it tows great, no problems with cross winds and we average 19-19.5 mpg with it when not towing.(9000 lbs tow rating).

Also I wouldn't recommend towing anything over 1000-1500 lbs without trailer brakes, in a panic stop/emergency it could make all the difference.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Automatic transmissions also offer a higher towing capacity than a stick shift. Not much more but more....

Dan

How sure are you of that statement?

The reason I ask is when I bought my 2001 F250 4X4, it had the same tow rating whether I chose the auto or manual trannie. I was told by the dealer that the only thing that would affect the tow rating was the choice of engine and choice of axle ratios. I ordered 3.73's, giving me a tow rating of 7800 lbs with the 5.4L V8. When delivered, the truck arrived with 4.10's, which upped the tow rating to 8900 lbs. I kept the 4.10's but boy, the mileage sure does suck lemons! I ordered the manual trans and I love it (it's a truck, it's SUPPOSED to have a manual!)!!

Now that I have to replace this truck, it's next to impossible to find a used F250 with a manual trans (they stopped making them after the 2010 model and not many were ordered that way) and there's not a half-ton manufactured in the world these days with a manual trans! It's also next to impossible to find an F150 that will tow 8000 lbs without a weight-distributing hitch.

[Slickcraft]

My 2004 Dodge 2500 with manual 5 speed has the same towing rating as the automatic version. The trans and clutch are heavy duty to match the rest of the drive-train.

The same was not true for half ton trucks where manual transmission models had considerably lower towing ratings that the automatics. The light duty clutch and tranny were the limitation.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

How sure are you of that statement?

Very sure... You are correct however very few manufacturers even offer standard transmissions anymore.

In the 2012 Chevy line it looks like only the "Colorado" model is even offered with a standard transmission. In this case with all other factors being the same, engine, axle ratio, etc, etc, there is a 1000 lb less towing capacity with the standard transmission. http://www.chevrolet.com/assets/pdf/...trailering.pdf

Currently in the Ford Super duty line of trucks a standard is not even an option anymore I believe. However from 1999 until 2007 a 5 speed manual was available for gas engines or a 4 speed automatic, but like the above Chevy Colorado, it also had a reduction of 1000 lbs when equipped with a standard transmission. You can go here and read all about it if you want... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Super_Duty

Here is some more good info. Look at the "transmission" section... http://www.trailerlife.com/Towing-Gu...t-Tow-Vehicle/

I am by no means an expert on the subject, just bought a lot of vehicles (mainly pickups) over the years for my business and until recently tow ratings was always something I had to look at.

Just an fyi...In many instances a four wheel drive pickup also offers a little less towing capacity than a two wheel drive with everything else being the same. Probably due to the extra weight of the added axle for 4wd.

Dan

[Belmont Resident]

To me it just doesn’t make sense to take chances. IMHO towing anything over an 18’ boat with anything less than either a full size SUV such as a Tahoe or Expedition or a full size truck is asking for trouble to eventually happen. A few of us we talking about it and even a GOOD mechanic will tell you that the ratings are basically what is suggested for towing for short distances on flat roads with no winds. Or good conditions. If what you are towing weighs more than what is towing it your taking a risk with a short wheel based vehicle. That is like the earlier post about towing a 24 Sundeck with a ford explorer. Dry weight is just under 5K and with it on a trailer your looking at close to what 28 feet long. Just not a safe or smart choice.
I’ve towed over 12K with my Super Duty rated for 12.5K. That truck was working hard to tow that load. Putting 1.5 tons in the back of it when I load it for sanding and it moves just fine even though it is only rated for 1 ton.

[8gv]

My little Escape tows 3500# and my boat weighs 3499.99# I only haul it a short distance twice a year. Having the right tow vehicle can burn a lot of gas when driven every day. Having a spare truck for towing, home center and dump runs can work if you can deal with the expenses it brings. Whatever you do, don't start adding all this up. You may decide not to do it!