Swim Raft Registration?

[Little Bear]

I don't know where else to put this thread, so here goes:

I got my annual "hello spring" letter from Island Real Estate in today's mail. Under the "Notes of Interest" section it states this: "The State has passed a new law that will require all swim rafts to be registered with Marine Patrol. At this point, it is our understanding that there will not be a fee."

This is the first I've heard of this. Has anyone else heard anything about this? I sent Marine Patrol an e-mail with the question, so I'll report back if I hear anything from them.

[Bear Island South]

you would think that Marine Patrol has enough to worry about with boaters, now they will be looking for unregistered rafts....what next?

[ishoot308]

Yup, got something in the mail today confirming this new requirement. I will be calling Marine Patrol tomorrow and will update on what I am told.

Dan

[Pineedles]

Oh, all we want to do is register your swim raft, there is no charge. Sound familar Dan? Once we have the list, then watch out. .

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Oh, all we want to do is register your swim raft, there is no charge. Sound familar Dan? Once we have the list, then watch out. .

Sure does Pineedles! I guarantee there will be a charge for this registration next year. The first year is free because they want your name, then your on "the list"!

[fatlazyless]

Hopefully, one of the legislators will sponsor an amendment to this new rule or law or whatever that requires all rafts to blend historically with the natural waterfront. By that I mean; encourage natural construction like wood boards and natural colors like brown, grey, beige that blend. Those bright yellow/blue giant trampolene rafts should be banned, outlawed, fined, and replaced with more natural looking rafts historically similar to what Amos Winnipesaukee had for a raft, back in 1888.

And for the next step, maybe impose a Vermont style sign law all across New Hampshire that eliminates all billboards and signs except for those smallish Vermont style signs! And then next maybe totally eliminate the name New Hampshire and start calling this state Vermont-East.....or New Vermont.....yeah....New Vermont sounds better.

Welcome to New Vermont.....Live Free and paint your raft a natural taupe color.......yeee-haw! New Vermont is definately way better than Massachusetts-North.....don't ya know! Maybe, Maine-West?

[Shedwannabe]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Hopefully, one of the legislators will sponsor an amendment to this new rule or law or whatever that requires all rafts to blend historically with the natural waterfront. By that I mean; encourage natural construction like wood boards and natural colors like brown, grey, beige that blend. Those bright yellow/blue giant trampolene rafts should be banned, outlawed, fined, and replaced with more natural looking rafts historically similar to what Amos Winnipesaukee had for a raft, back in 1888.

And for the next step, maybe impose a Vermont style sign law all across New Hampshire that eliminates all billboards and signs except for those smallish Vermont style signs! And then next maybe totally eliminate the name New Hampshire and start calling this state Vermont-East.....or New Vermont.....yeah....New Vermont sounds better.

Welcome to New Vermont.....Live Free and paint your raft a natural taupe color.......yeee-haw! New Vermont is definately way better than Massachusetts-North.....don't ya know! Maybe, Maine-West?

You have entirely too much time on your hands.....

[tummyman]

Sounds like next years new revenue stream for the Marine Patrol. I agree with some...those large yellow blow up rafts are very unsightly. I would not ant to look at one all season if my neighbor wanted to put one out. I wil be very interested in what you find out, as I searched the Marine Patrol database and found nothing this afternoon. So much for letting people know. Must be short of people....... Oh, maybe we can file for stimulus money!

[ITD]

This happened a few years ago and was rescinded by the legislature, don't tell me it's back again.

[Sunbeam lodge]

Originally Posted by Bear Island South

you would think that Marine Patrol has enough to worry about with boaters, now they will be looking for unregistered rafts....what next?

A new tax to fund more MP's to look for unregistered rafts.

[Bear Islander]

I just talked to the nice woman at Safety Services that is in charge of swim raft permits. The applications will not be available until about June. Therefore nobody is going to get in trouble for not having a swim raft permit this summer. But the summer of 2011 you have a permit or else.

The phone number is 603-293-0091. The permit forms will be on the state web sight at a later date.

[BlackCatIslander]

I just spoke to Marine Patrol. The gentleman answering the phone had no knowledge of such a regulation but I did ask others and found out that YES there is now a regulation for registration of swim rafts. They do not have any applications developed yet and anticipate that they will be available sometime in June and that there will NO ENFORCEMENT THIS YEAR.

[Little Bear]

Thanks for all the input and info.

[jrc]

I just searched the NH laws and the Department of Safety rules. There is no swim raft registration requirement YET.

Now this could be a rule by another department, like DES or it may be that the data on the website is stale.

Whoever told people about this should be able to point to an RSA or rule.

[John A. Birdsall]

It seems to me that the fee should be the same as a mooring. You put an object out there and put an anchor out. What is the difference? I have a good raft now. I can put the pontoon boat out at the mooring and use it as a raft. I am sure the birds would like a place to rest, and them ducks. Wow can they make a mess.

[XCR-700]

So much for "Live Free or Die"

You guys are looking more and more like New Massachusetts,,,

Whats next, lawn chair standards and registration, or maybe a scenic view tax,,,

My condolences on your loss (of freedom) sadly its a cancer that will kill if left untreated! Just look at MA and you will see the results of unchecked Government regulation.

No good will come from it,,,

GH

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Whats next, lawn chair standards and registration, or maybe a scenic view tax,,,

GH

snipped the quote.

We already have a view tax, that was implemented a few years ago. Should have heard a friend of mine, (that has a hillside farm with huge views) tell the story of the town tax official, trying to explain why he needs to pay a tax on a working farm that has been in his family for over 150 years.

A friend of my parents owns a large vegitable farm and stand in Loudon on the ridge road and has plans of putting up a large barrier to prevent anyone else from enjoying his view, since he has to pay a tax on it. We will see, think he was just blowing off steam, but I cannot blame him if he did. We would be talking about a 1/4 mile of road frontage.

[eyenotall777]

They should do this for "bob houses" as well since some owners are not considered responsible enough, meaning removing them from bodies of water before ice out!

[AC2717]

I Believe that next year there would be a fee which is ridiculous
WHy would the meat heads in power want to have these registered unless they are going to charge for it.

Honestly someone in NH, cause I cannot, needs to step in and stop all this crazyness. Next they are going to have toll collectors at your own private beaches to not allow you to touch the water unless you pay a toll everytime

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by jmen24

snipped the quote.

We already have a view tax, that was implemented a few years ago. Should have heard a friend of mine, (that has a hillside farm with huge views) tell the story of the town tax official, trying to explain why he needs to pay a tax on a working farm that has been in his family for over 150 years.

A friend of my parents owns a large vegitable farm and stand in Loudon on the ridge road and has plans of putting up a large barrier to prevent anyone else from enjoying his view, since he has to pay a tax on it. We will see, think he was just blowing off steam, but I cannot blame him if he did. We would be talking about a 1/4 mile of road frontage.

You cant be serious,,,, I was obviously kidding about a view tax. How do you fairly assess such a tax??? That cant be right,,,

So if I take this on a wild leap of faith as legit, can you match this madness with equal madness and apply your parents friends plan with a twist where you put the barrier between you and the view and avoid the tax???

God help us all if this is correct,,, we are really coming unglued as a country,,,,

[MeEscape]

Will swim rafts be subject to the speed limits?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by MeEscape

Will swim rafts be subject to the speed limits?

I'll bet a whole bunch of standards will eventually be enforced if this sticks!

And then specified liability for all the moonbats with their hands out who want to collect when their life-altering injury occurs when they get a splinter on someone else’s raft,,,

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

You cant be serious,,,, I was obviously kidding about a view tax. How do you fairly assess such a tax??? That cant be right,,,

So if I take this on a wild leap of faith as legit, can you match this madness with equal madness and apply your parents friends plan with a twist where you put the barrier between you and the view and avoid the tax???

God help us all if this is correct,,, we are really coming unglued as a country,,,,

He's totally serious: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174077,00.html NB

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

You cant be serious,,,, I was obviously kidding about a view tax. How do you fairly assess such a tax??? That cant be right,,,

So if I take this on a wild leap of faith as legit, can you match this madness with equal madness and apply your parents friends plan with a twist where you put the barrier between you and the view and avoid the tax???

God help us all if this is correct,,, we are really coming unglued as a country,,,,

There is no "view tax" in NH. Peoples property values were assessed higher, due to people willing to pay more for property with a view. The property assessed values were adjusted to be more in line with real estate appraisals.

[caloway]

1)If the raft has a little house with a bunk, electricity, bath, etc. is it still legit? I'll promise to keep the slide.

2)Can I dock my boat?

3)Any reason I can't drop that sucker off the back side of Governor's

[John A. Birdsall]

Originally Posted by MeEscape

Will swim rafts be subject to the speed limits?

Only the one in Peggy's cove goes faster than the ducks. by the way you got the dock in yet?

[HUH]

Uhhmm.. what about rocks.. shouldnt they be "Registered"? Islands too, as long as where at it.. I dont see an end to this short of ousting the nincompoops that seem to have infested every political position from here to DC!

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by chipj29

There is no "view tax" in NH. Peoples property values were assessed higher, due to people willing to pay more for property with a view. The property assessed values were adjusted to be more in line with real estate appraisals.

While you are correct in that it is not a "tax" on the books in writing. But when you property is accessed they apply a value to your view and use that to increase the land value, not the building. It is the same process used for waterfront, but the multiplier is slightly smaller.

The person in my story saw an increase in his land value of $267,000 on a property that was originally valued at around $124,000 over the course of two years. These are numbers that he shared with us and in his rage could very well be exagerated, I have never taken the time to verify, as why call out a friend. The selectman at the time Ray Cummings, blaitently noted how nice the view was when he stopped to grab some vegies on his way through, that then started an entire mess as outlined above.

Most of the properties that have been hit hard by this are existing farms that have been in place, well probably since the town was incorporated or longer.

So basically, the owners of waterfront do not have to feel as though they are not the only ones fitting the bill for all our "services", the folks that are sitting on a side hill are paying as well.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by caloway

2)Can I dock my boat?

Now I have no official evidence but then it would be a mooring.... so if you have a swim raft that you some times leave your boat tied too.... must you get a mooring permit and a raft registration????

[Little Bear]

I received this message from Marine Patrol:

I have been advised the administrative rule which addresses the requirements for the application and permit process for swim rafts has not yet been adopted. Once that process has been completed, the application form will be available on the Marine Patrol website for applicants to download. I understand that will occur most likely in mid to late June. This registration process is applicable to all bodies of water in the state. There is no fee at this time to apply for and receive a yearly permit for placement of a swim raft. Due to the delays associated with the availability of application forms, the Marine Patrol will not enforce the permit requirement during the 2010 boating season. If you previously had a permit for a swim raft, you will be sent a new application form during June. If this will be a new permit, you will be able to download the application form or request that it be mailed when they become available. Completed applications will be sent to the Division Headquarters in Gilford for review and approval. If you have further questions regarding swim raft permitting, please contact Regina Carman, Administrative Assistant at 603 293-0091.

[alsadad]

Rumor has it that the LaDaSun will publish a three-part exposé of a recently-formed organization known as the SWim Equipment Annual Registration (And Tax) for Winnipesaukee (Or SWEARATWINNI). According to a well-placed source, the paper’s crack investigative reporter hacked into the computer of the organization’s secretary and discovered its manifesto while hanging out in the school library between gym class and 7th grade English.

Shockingly, swim raft registration is only the first step in the organization’s audacious plan. If successful with this step, the members plan to propose legislation calling for the registration and taxation of noodles, inflatable rafts and ‘swimmies’ and requiring permanently-attached brass identification plates on all such items. The legislation will take effect 1/1/2012 and initially contain a two-year sunset provision to allow an opportunity to study the law’s impact. The next 5 pages of the manifesto consist of a public relations package, suitable for distribution to news outlets across the state, containing statistics for the period 2010 through 2012. These statistics will prove the effectiveness of the law, citing decreased beach erosion, increased civility and courtesy in the region, and double-digit economic improvement. This information will be used to support the group’s call to make the law permanent one year into the two year study period.

The last chapter of the manifesto details their final plan to require users of Braun Bay and other popular gathering spots to register their DNA so that Marine Patrol can identify those responsible for leaving certain ‘deposits’ behind.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by jmen24

Most of the properties that have been hit hard by this are existing farms that have been in place, well probably since the town was incorporated or longer.

You are correct. Some towns do not have a seperate tax base land zoned for agricultural use. Even the state don't see a difference. the family's 350 acre sheep farm with a view of Winnipesaukee, Ossipee and White Mountains was taxed into nonexistent. Because developers will pay top dollars for the land! The farmer has to pay taxes on the current land value.

The biggest reason why we are losing our agricultural base today is TAXES!

[wadden]

A different question: someone just put a swim raft in our cove that is so far out it will restrict ours and others use of the cove for wakeboarding and waterskiing. Is there a regulation that restricts distance from shore or interference with other property owners' use and enjoyment of the lake?

[jrc]

You should visit this person and remind them about the NH good neighbor policy. Then ask them nicely to move it.

This is when you find out if the raft was placed as a message to you about too much wake boarding and watersking or a more innocent reason.

If that doesn't work, this might apply:

270:26 Injuring Buoys, Placing Obstructions. –
...
II. Any person who knowingly places an obstruction dangerous to navigation in any of the public waters of the state without reasonable precaution to protect the public from such obstruction shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by wadden

A different question: someone just put a swim raft in our cove that is so far out it will restrict ours and others use of the cove for wakeboarding and waterskiing. Is there a regulation that restricts distance from shore or interference with other property owners' use and enjoyment of the lake?

If it's a New Mooring, maybe it dragged out of position already. NB

[ApS]

Originally Posted by jrc

"...You should visit this person and remind them about the NH good neighbor policy. Then ask them nicely to move it..."

Its location may be dependent on the depth in the area. You need about 7-feet of depth for safe diving from a swim raft. The nature of the bottom (boulders, sand, sunken logs) needs a look-see, too.

Originally Posted by NoBozo

If it's a New Mooring, maybe it dragged out of position already. NB

1) The WNW wind is so strong today, it may have returned to where it originally was.

2) My own boats are being "clattered about"—and they're on solid ground! Eighteen knots of wind at the Weirs—r-i-g-h-t.

3) A "tie-off" piling just floated by—dragging one end along the bottom... ...PM me if you're missing one.

[Bear Islander]

I just checked with the nice lady at the Dept. of Safety and the Swim Raft Permit system is still not in operation.

No Swim Raft Permits will be required in 2011.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by wadden

A different question: someone just put a swim raft in our cove that is so far out it will restrict ours and others use of the cove for wakeboarding and waterskiing. Is there a regulation that restricts distance from shore or interference with other property owners' use and enjoyment of the lake?

Sadly we have some who abuse such. We have a new neighbor with a ton of money. He went out and purchased one of the largest available inflatable rafts with a high slide. This thing is a monster I mean huge. It sticks out like a sore thumb. Granted, the neighbor is a nice guy and offered all along shore to use it. But it is truly an eyesore. AND he has no children that use it And he does not use it himself. So what was the point?

I am against all government regulations for such. But how does one stop some person from doing such?

And onto another point mentioned. How far out is one allowed to place a raft? I have seen some way way out there and the only reason I can think of is to prevent boaters from coming too close to his waterfront home. Not used as a raft as such but boat traffic control.

And I know of one waterfront homeowner who "obtained" a red lake marker and somehow it ened up out front - way out - in front of his lake front home. There are no rocks or shallow areas where this marker was placed.

What is the answer to all of this?

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by songkrai

Sadly we have some who abuse such. We have a new neighbor with a ton of money. He went out and purchased one of the largest available inflatable rafts with a high slide. This thing is a monster I mean huge. It sticks out like a sore thumb. Granted, the neighbor is a nice guy and offered all along shore to use it. But it is truly an eyesore. AND he has no children that use it And he does not use it himself. So what was the point?

I am against all government regulations for such. But how does one stop some person from doing such?

And onto another point mentioned. How far out is one allowed to place a raft? I have seen some way way out there and the only reason I can think of is to prevent boaters from coming too close to his waterfront home. Not used as a raft as such but boat traffic control.

And I know of one waterfront homeowner who "obtained" a red lake marker and somehow it ened up out front - way out - in front of his lake front home. There are no rocks or shallow areas where this marker was placed.

What is the answer to all of this?

If someone has a marker not placed by the Marine Patrol you can call the Marine Patrol and have them take a look.

They will allow you to use bleach bottles or some other kind of float, to mark rocks or other hazards that are not far from shore. If they think it is unnecessary they will remove it.

There is no specific maximum distance you can put out a swim raft or mooring. However 150 feet seems to be the rule of thumb. The most important thing is that you are not a hazard to navigation. If you live in Sally's Gut you might be limited to 25 feet.

There is a red tip marker near Pine Island that mysteriously keeps moving out from shore, and then the MP move it back. Even Bizer has noted that it seems to move.

[Mink Islander]

Originally Posted by wadden

A different question: someone just put a swim raft in our cove that is so far out it will restrict ours and others use of the cove for wakeboarding and waterskiing. Is there a regulation that restricts distance from shore or interference with other property owners' use and enjoyment of the lake?

How far out from shore is the new raft? If it's less than 150 ft, then your statement that it's placement restricts using the cove for wake boarding makes me wonder whether that activity was ever appropriate there. Hard to know from the scant facts presented.

And what if he'd installed a registered mooring out 150 ft and put a sailboat on it? Are you saying you would object to that too? Unless that mooring interferes with navigation or is a safety hazard, it would be approved.

I'm not going to ascribe any motive to why the raft is there this year. It's possible the just wanted a swim raft! Which they are permitted to have. No good neighbor violation seems in order here. Go ski elsewhere. It's a big lake.

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by Mink Islander

... Go ski elsewhere. It's a big lake.

The problem with that advice is that eventually there will be no where left to go.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by Mink Islander

How far out from shore is the new raft? If it's less than 150 ft, then your statement that it's placement restricts using the cove for wake boarding makes me wonder whether that activity was ever appropriate there. Hard to know from the scant facts presented.

Don't jump to this conclusion...

If there was no raft there, they would be limited to 150 feet. If the raft is out 150 feet from shore, the wakeboarder should now be 300 feet out (to stay 150 feet away from the new raft). In a small cove, this can be very restricting. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mink Islander]

I agree. Raft out to a max 150 ft plus 150 ft safe passage plus at least another 150 feet to the opposite shore. And then you need to add something as a buffer for the boat to operate in, right? If taking a max 300 feet away from the operating area in the cove makes skiing impossible now, then the cove was awfully narrow to start with. IMO. Your's may differ.

And Kamper, the lake IS very big and you really shouldn't expect that all areas are suitable for all activities. Skiing in small coves sounds sketchy at best. The homeowner is completely within his rights to have a raft and if that impacts the skier, so be it. And as I stated earlier, if the raft were a sailboat moored how do you feel? Would you tell the homeowner he's being a jerk and not a "good neighbor" because he bought a sailboat and dared to moor it off his property? I'd also tell you that a ski boat doing laps in a small cove sounds like the inconsiderate one to me.

Doesn't apprear the raft is blocking safe passage or obstructing access. Sorry, under current law, the ski boat loses this argument -- and has a reasonable alternative to go use his boat somewhere else.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by Mink Islander

I agree. Raft out to a max 150 ft plus 150 ft safe passage plus at least another 150 feet to the opposite shore. And then you need to add something as a buffer for the boat to operate in, right? If taking a max 300 feet away from the operating area in the cove makes skiing impossible now, then the cove was awfully narrow to start with. IMO. Your's may differ.

And Kamper, the lake IS very big and you really shouldn't expect that all areas are suitable for all activities. Skiing in small coves sounds sketchy at best. The homeowner is completely within his rights to have a raft and if that impacts the skier, so be it. And as I stated earlier, if the raft were a sailboat moored how do you feel? Would you tell the homeowner he's being a jerk and not a "good neighbor" because he bought a sailboat and dared to moor it off his property? I'd also tell you that a ski boat doing laps in a small cove sounds like the inconsiderate one to me.

Doesn't apprear the raft is blocking safe passage or obstructing access. Sorry, under current law, the ski boat loses this argument -- and has a reasonable alternative to go use his boat somewhere else.

You're not overly familiar with the WHOLE lake then as their are several coves that are small and acceptable for skiing/wakeboarding. One of the coves I ride in, is very small. In all honesty, there is less than 150ft to shore on both sides. It's not a no wake zone, and marine patrol has sat in or just outside the cove before with no issues. This particular cove is commonly used for skiing/wakeboard as it's calm. If you ski/wakeboard, you know that it's only enjoyable to do so under calm conditions, which on a weekend are rare to find. So, us riders often try to find these calm coves. Now, if a landowner were to stick a raft out in this particular cove, all skiing/riding would be completely shutoff for the most part.

All I'm saying is that you are basing your judgement off of opinion as you've stated above. I'm just trying to paint a practical scenario, and assuming that this is what the original poster is fighting unfortunately.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

I would like to suggest that you put your telephone number and lake address on any water toys, especially the big ones like swim rafts and trampolines. Chairs that you like that might get blown away too.

Last year it was great knowing where to bring the escaped trampoline we found. It also was nice to be able to call the owner to let them know what had happened.

Years ago, we rescued a swim raft and had it for several weeks before the owners came for it. We would have brought it back if we had known where to bring it.
(I have always wondered if they thought that we stole it. They just showed up and took it away, without speaking with our son's who happened to be at the camp when it happened.)

If you find or lose something big, be sure to contact Marine Patrol: 603-293-2037 or 1-877-642-9700 (toll free)

Thanks!

RG

[Bluesman]

I am sure this is old news for most folks, but registration of swim platforms is not required as I was just informed by NH safety Services