Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Lake Issues > Boating Issues > Speed Limits
Home Forums Gallery YouTube Channel Classifieds Links Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-29-2009, 03:16 AM   #101
Skipper of the Sea Que
Deceased Member
 
Skipper of the Sea Que's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: 1/2 way between Boston & Providence
Posts: 573
Thanks: 32
Thanked 55 Times in 22 Posts
Arrow Letter to LDS, Speed is not the enemy

Do the Math's post #62 in this thread appeared in the Laconia Daily Sun today, Tuesday September 29, 2009. Thanks DtM. Here's a copy/paste.

From Laconia Daily Sun page 5, Laconia Daily Sun Tuesday September 29, 2009

Face it people, boat speed is not the enemy & never has been

To the editor,
Throughout my adult life I have
had all kinds of boats, big, small, fast,
slow, etc. I literally grew up “summering”
on Lake Winnipesaukee; I am the
third generation of my family to do
so, and have watched it change quite
a bit over my 40 years, changes that
reflect not only improvements to the
lake and it’s surrounding areas but
some, admittedly, I don’t fully agree
with. For example, I miss Anderson’s
Bakery in Center Harbor, they had
the best donuts! And as a kid, walking
to Robbins General Store for candy
or an ice cream out of the cooler. And
most of all, EVERYONE waved at
each other — what ever happened to
the “original” wave when passing
your fellow boater? Anyway, I digress.
I honestly think the “most fun” boat
I/ we had growing up was a 13-foot
Whaler with a 40 hp 2S Merc on it. We
bought it new from Browns, and once
dialed-in correctly would run 42-44-
mph on it’s best day, in perfect conditions.
At WOT that boat felt like it was
going 80-mph — you were 12-inches
off the water and it was a blast! I
scared a lot of friends that
weren’t “boat people” in that thing
— great boat! Now, fast-forward —
jumping up to a 42-foot
Outerlimits with 1,700 hp, at 100-
mph — it feels like you are sitting in
an easy-chair with a big fan blowing
wind in your face. It’s all relative to
the size and conditions at the time
you are out. At 65-mph, that same
boat feels like it’s “loafing” along, the
engines are running smooth and easy
and you barely feel the waves you are
crossing, it is a very comfortable and
controlled ride.
As another WInnipesaukee Forum
member has mentioned numerous
times in previous posts, these boats are
DESIGNED to perform VERY well and
very controlled at the speeds that they
achieve. Imagine doing 65-mph in a
13-foot Whaler — as much as I would
love to try it, given an open body of
water with no boat traffic and flat and
calm conditions, I would never dream of
doing it on Winni, ever!
It’s funny how most speed Limit
proponents seem to forget something
very important — and I have said
this over and over — guns don’t kill
people, people kill people! We always
read about “Captain Bonehead” on the
forum — note, no one ever refers to
the boat itself, it is always the operator!
“This guy on a jet ski cut in front
of me yesterday, what a jerk” or “I
had this guy in a bowrider, with nine
people on board nail it coming out of
the channel, he was only 25-feet from
me”. Now, in any case of negligence or
“operator” error has it been the boats
fault that what happened, happened!?
Did “the boat” decide to go against
the operator and turn itself in front of
you, cutting you off and breaking the
150-foot rule!? Did “the boat” decide
to slow to a speed that let up a huge
wake and crash your boat against
your dock — damaging both — while
the operator yelled at it telling it not
to? To quote Forrest Gump: “stupid is
as stupid does”, and if you look at the
last (and ONLY)
two significant accidents to occur on
the lake over the previous 10+ years,
extenuating circumstances not withstanding,
both point to operator error,
period! (And at least one so far was
proven to have taken place UNDER
30-mph!).
Call it what you will, bad judgment,
driver impaired, weather conditions,
etc., at the end of the day, it is the
operator that is responsible, always.
I know plenty of people on this lake
who own boats that will run fast, very
fast, and not a SINGLE one of them
has been involved in an incident of
any kind that would be construed as
negative. I have seen over the period
that the speed limit has become an
issue, an exponential number of
“family boats”, cruisers and waverunners
involved in the most unbelievably
dumb, careless and unsafe incidents!
The speed limite has had nothing to
do with any perceived changes in the
way the lake was this summer, chalk
it up to the economy and sheer coincidence.
Incidentally, I still saw more
than my fair share of “captain boneheads”
on the lake this summer and
I was up less than all prior summers,
oh, and NONE were driving a performance
boat! None involved going
really fast either, it was mostly the
150-foot rule and the right of way
rule that were the culprit, and tubing/
skiing in the most foolish locations -
traffic-laden, etc., and just not paying
general attention.
Face it people, speed is not the
enemy here, and it never has been,
but some people like to think that
the performance boat crowd is — that
our “Golden Pond” has become a playground
for all they despise. Gone are
the birch-bark canoes, replaced with
loud and “unsafe” speed boats. How
about gone are the responsible owner/
operators ACTING responsibly! You
are responsible for your own actions;
man-up and act like you are!
There is plenty of water for all to
enjoy, but we need to be responsible
for your actions, on and off the water! I
can assure you, I can promise you and
prove to you that a 20-foot bowrider
at 50-mph can be far more dangerous
than a 38-foot performance boat at
the same speed.
Sure, there are times that I wish this
lake was the lake I knew when I was
a kid, less populated and developed,
but at the same time, I love the lake
today! My 4 1/2-year-old son also loves
the lake, being out on the boat, visiting
friends and playing in the water.
You know, “he-said, she-said, he-did,
she-did” is getting old and moving us
no where fast! Let’s figure it out and
make it work people, so future generations
to come can enjoy it all too.
name redacted
Acton, Mass.
__________________



Amateur HAM Radio What is it? You'll be surprised. When all else fails Ham Radio still works.
Shriners Hospitals providing specialized care for children regardless of ability to pay. Find out more or refer a patient.
Skipper of the Sea Que is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Skipper of the Sea Que For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (09-29-2009), Gilligan (10-01-2009), Just Sold (09-29-2009), OCDACTIVE (09-29-2009), Resident 2B (09-30-2009)
Old 09-29-2009, 10:13 AM   #102
Yosemite Sam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lakes Region
Posts: 395
Thanks: 81
Thanked 95 Times in 56 Posts
Default Past publications of the Laconia Daily Sun

If you want past publications of the Laconia Daily Sun, all you have to do is change the date of the address that you put in the address bar of you browser. Some people who post on forums will type in a different name for the address and then hyperlink it to the correct URL.
Example; http://www.laconiadailysun.com/Lacon...2009/9/29L.pdf will take you to the 2009/9/29 issue of the paper. If you change the date in the address to 2008/9/29L it will take you to the 2008 issue. Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/Lacon...2008/9/29L.pdf

Yosemite Sam is offline  
Old 09-29-2009, 10:54 AM   #103
Pineedles
Senior Member
 
Pineedles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Moultonborough & CT
Posts: 2,417
Thanks: 949
Thanked 593 Times in 331 Posts
Default Welcome Sam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
If you want past publications of the Laconia Daily Sun, all you have to do is change the date of the address that you put in the address bar of you browser. Some people who post on forums will type in a different name for the address and then hyperlink it to the correct URL.
Example; http://www.laconiadailysun.com/Lacon...2009/9/29L.pdf will take you to the 2009/9/29 issue of the paper. If you change the date in the address to 2008/9/29L it will take you to the 2008 issue. Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/Lacon...2008/9/29L.pdf

Do we have the pleasure of welcoming a representative of the LDS? If so, I love the fact that the online version reads in PDF scroll mode. It makes it seem like the real thing.
Pineedles is offline  
Old 09-29-2009, 11:43 AM   #104
Yosemite Sam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lakes Region
Posts: 395
Thanks: 81
Thanked 95 Times in 56 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineedles View Post
Do we have the pleasure of welcoming a representative of the LDS? If so, I love the fact that the online version reads in PDF scroll mode. It makes it seem like the real thing.

Nope, not affiliated with any Newspaper.

You can do the same thing to the Conway Daily Sun.
Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/pdf/2009/9/29.pdf

Now change the date to 2009/9/28. Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/pdf/2009/9/28.pdf

Notice that the address is almost like the LDS.

You can right click on any address and then click on properties to get the exact URL. Then you can copy that address to your browser address bar and go to that website.

If someone types in something other than the exact URL, you can right click the name and go to properties to copy the address.

Yosemite Sam is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Yosemite Sam For This Useful Post:
Pineedles (09-29-2009)
Old 09-30-2009, 07:33 PM   #105
Weekend Pundit
Senior Member
 
Weekend Pundit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gilford
Posts: 164
Thanks: 6
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default Enforce 150' rule and most 'speeding' problems will go away

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinkerfam View Post
Woodsy, when you mention "pre-existing laws" you summed up my argument since day one. I must have been on a different Winnipesaukee than all of the SL supporters this summer. When the weather was nice it was a mad-house out there. (By mad-house I don't mean the number of boats out there or the speeds that they were traveling). I'm sure I wasn't the only boat that had other vessels pass at distances far less than 150'. I'm sure that I wasn't the only boat that had to surrender to a "give-way vessel" numerous times. I'm also sure that I wasn't the only one to be horrified at all the boats traveling through the Governor's/Eagle NWZ just below planing speed creating monster wakes while the MP looked on without care. Maybe the SL supporters are among those who don't know what 150' means.
I'm with you on this one. Far too often my only problem with boats going too fast have been those violating the 150' rule.

Twice within a period of half an hour a Captain Bonehead passed too close, on the first occasion almost swamping my boat.

My father-in-law and I were on our way back to Smith Cove from Weirs Beach and as we were making our way (at headway speed) towards Governor's Island bridge, a boat passed between us and the shore at 'mush' speed. We were only 100' from the shoreline, so he was about 50-60' off the shore. His wake spilled over our transom and left almost a foot of water in the cockpit before it drained away into the bilge. (Thank goodness the bilge pump was able to get rid of it!)

The second incident took place after we had pumped the bilge dry and and made the turn towards the bridge but before we reached the No Wake zone. There was another boat about 80' ahead of us and the second Captain Bonehead was also heading towards the bridge and decided to 'thread the needle' between us while on plane.

Both were speeding but not in violation of the speed limit. They were speeding because they broke the 150' rule. I'll bet a wide majority of the so-called speeding incidents are really 150' rule violations.
Weekend Pundit is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Weekend Pundit For This Useful Post:
Resident 2B (09-30-2009)
Sponsored Links
Old 09-30-2009, 07:54 PM   #106
Weekend Pundit
Senior Member
 
Weekend Pundit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gilford
Posts: 164
Thanks: 6
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default I don't agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
Mr. Weeks and Mr. Chase say that the speed limit has transformed Winnipesaukee from a chaotic and accident-plagued lake to one of peace and harmony. All of their friends and neighbors say this as well.

How many believe this to be true? Why?
I think the real reason 'peace and harmony' have appeared has little to do with the speed limit. Boat traffic in general is down. Ask anyone at the marinas, the gas docks, and the boat ramps, or ask the Marine Patrol. For the second season in a row boat traffic is down. This year there have been a large number of unrented slips, something I've never seen before. Quite a few of my friends ended up trailering their boats rather than renting slips. They didn't go out onto the lake nearly as often as they have in the past.
Weekend Pundit is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Weekend Pundit For This Useful Post:
DEJ (10-01-2009)
Old 10-01-2009, 03:59 AM   #107
Yosemite Sam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lakes Region
Posts: 395
Thanks: 81
Thanked 95 Times in 56 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineedles View Post
Do we have the pleasure of welcoming a representative of the LDS? If so, I love the fact that the online version reads in PDF scroll mode. It makes it seem like the real thing.

Actually the scrolling function can be setup to work with any Adobe file by changing how the default layout is setup.

To change the default layout in Adobe Reader, open Adobe Reader and go to the tool bar and do the following:

1. Choose Edit > Preferences.
2. Under Categories, select Page Display.
3. Open the Page Layout menu and choose either Automatic, Single Page, Single Page Continuous, Two-Up, or Two-Up Continuous. (I prefer Single Page Continuous)
4. Click OK after you have selected your page Layout.

These changes will become effective the next time you open an Adobe file.
Yosemite Sam is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Yosemite Sam For This Useful Post:
Pineedles (10-01-2009)
Old 10-01-2009, 05:26 AM   #108
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekend Pundit View Post
I think the real reason 'peace and harmony' have appeared has little to do with the speed limit. Boat traffic in general is down. Ask anyone at the marinas, the gas docks, and the boat ramps, or ask the Marine Patrol. For the second season in a row boat traffic is down. This year there have been a large number of unrented slips, something I've never seen before. Quite a few of my friends ended up trailering their boats rather than renting slips. They didn't go out onto the lake nearly as often as they have in the past.
You bet WP, most of us agree 100% with that. Hopefully, next year will provide a much better boating season.
VtSteve is offline  
Old 10-01-2009, 10:36 AM   #109
elchase
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE View Post
Ed Chase of Meredith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
Mr. Chase
Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
Ed Chase
Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
Mr. Chase
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE View Post
"he who must not be named" or may return.....
You guys really need to stop obsessing. Do you have pictures of me lining the walls of your bedrooms too? Do you Google my name first thing every morning when you turn on your computers? You both apparently spend all your waking hours on this "Anti-Speed Limit" forum, so when do you get time for the hi-speed boating that you supposedly enjoy so much? All this mention of me just tempts me back, and I know you don't want these "Anti-Speed Limit" threads tainted by people who believe in the rule of law.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekend Pundit View Post
'peace and harmony' have appeared
Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoTheMath View Post
chalk it up to the economy and sheer coincidence.
Could those really be the causes? Could "peace and harmony" really have reappeared because of some rain in June? Because of an economic recession? Nice theories, but I don't think so. Isn't it much more plausible that they returned because of the change in the law that forced a return to "peace and harmony"?

Here's a well-articulated story from the same paper that you guys conveniently missed that explains it better;
ftp://www.laconiadailysun.com/Laconiapdf/2009/9/29L.pdf

"For those who need to pilot a boat at 90 MPH, the ocean is nearby
To the editor,
The letters from Mr. Verdonk and
Mr. Stewart exemplify the problems
the high speed boating crowd faces
trying to find fault with a speed limit.
They just don’t know how to find a
problem with such a sensible law, so
they make things up.
While I appreciate that Mr. Stewart
at least had the fortitude to admit
that boaters slowed down because of
the speed limit, saying that the only
thing that did was erode her shoreline
is just plain silly. Why would a “ginormous”
boat going 45 erode her shoreline
and the same boat going 85 not?
If “ginormous” boats are going anything
over headway speed that close
to his shoreline, then he has other
causes to complain besides a speed
limit. If “ginormous” boats were going
that close to my shoreline, I certainly
wouldn’t want them to be going 85
MPH.
And as to Mr. Verdonk’s letter, it is
a common debating trick to start off
with a mischaracterization of your
opponent’s position, then disprove the
mischaracterization. But if one reads
Mr. Verdonk’s letter with my actual
statements in mind, it all falls apart.
I never “attribute the reduced boating
activity to the success of the new
speed limits” as he asserts to set up
his whole letter. In fact, as I said, I was
referring to the times I was seeing as
many if not more boats out there. Several
weekends in August the lake was
as crowded as I’ve ever seen it, but it
just FELT LIKE it was less crowded
because almost everyone was going
slower, as Ms. Stewart also saw. How
did the economy do that? More civility
during sunny days when the lake
is just as crowded has nothing to do
with the economy or bad weather. The
economy and rain might have affected
the boating numbers this year (at
times), but it could only have been the
speed limit that slowed them down, as
Mr. Stewart himself admits.
The typical Granite Stater new to
this whole discussion will ask how
anyone could rationalize opposition to
a reasonable limit of boating speeds
on a lake so crowded with such big
boats. But of course, those who make
a lot of money over-crowding our
lake with over-fast boats and those
who boast about the “need for speed”
are not your typical Granite Staters.
They don’t think rationally. Their selfish
interests and “needs” cloud their
common sense. And they are not interested
in the activities that most Granite
Staters enjoy or that NH wants to
offer tourists to attract them to come
here.
The brochures one picks up at our
rest stops show the natural beauty of
our state. Photos depict our beautiful
lakes and mountains as safe and
open to family recreational activities.
You see canoes and sailboats. You see
families water skiing and fishing. You
see loons and sunsets. Imagine how
many tourists we’d attract if those
brochures instead showed 6-ton boats
flying around at 80-90 mph amongst
the canoes and kayaks? That is not the
NH I grew up in, or that my summer
neighbors want to come to. For every
one tourist such an image attracts to
NH, it will send 100 somewhere else.
See what that does to our economy,
Mr. Verdonk.
Forty-five MPH is a very reasonable
top speed for a boat on Lake Winnipesaukee.
It’s the typical speed limit
on lakes like Winnipesaukee around
the country and has proven effective
over and over. There is not a single
lake-appropriate boating activity that
one cannot enjoy at 45 MPH. And for
those with “the need” to go 90 MPH,
the ocean is just 50 miles down the
road. Anyone who argues that 45 is
too slow for this lake, whether blaming
it on shore erosion, the economy,
the weather, or some other nonsensical
reason, is just not being honest.
As Mr. Chase’s letter said, the bottom
line is that NH’s citizens asked for the
law and seem to love its effects, while
the offenders are obviously unhappy
with it. How many laws can we say
that about? And doesn’t that prove it’s
working?
Jack Weeks
Meredith"


PS; I bet it will take less than one hundred and twenty seconds for OCD to respond.
 
The Following User Says Thank You to For This Useful Post:
sunset on the dock (10-01-2009)
Old 10-01-2009, 11:09 AM   #110
jmen24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,139
Thanks: 223
Thanked 318 Times in 181 Posts
Default

Elchase is apparently the type of person that truely enjoys having people talk about him. I would recommend that we do not continue to temp him back, discuss the subject of his posts and pretend that it came out of thin air, he will eventually get frustrated with not having anyone talk about him or his ideals.
jmen24 is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to jmen24 For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (10-01-2009), DEJ (10-01-2009), DoTheMath (10-01-2009), OCDACTIVE (10-01-2009)
Old 10-01-2009, 11:14 AM   #111
DEJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 289
Thanks: 225
Thanked 162 Times in 67 Posts
Default

Actually we need to have elchase keep posting, IMO it clearly makes the case of the opposers to the speed limit.
DEJ is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DEJ For This Useful Post:
hazelnut (10-01-2009), OCDACTIVE (10-01-2009)
Old 10-01-2009, 11:21 AM   #112
gtagrip
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 301
Thanks: 115
Thanked 75 Times in 52 Posts
Default Fat Jack???

I've got to wonder if these letters submitted by Jack Weeks is also the same infamous "Fat Jack" from the prior speed limit debates back in 06' & 07'? and what possible screen name is he going by now???
gtagrip is offline  
Old 10-01-2009, 11:47 AM   #113
Kracken
Senior Member
 
Kracken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alton
Posts: 223
Thanks: 46
Thanked 130 Times in 50 Posts
Default Farve

Mr. Chase / Mr. Favre

I have to admire your resiliency. We all understand your position on the speed limit. You wrote your editorials and you have a right to do that. Some speed limit opponents wrote their editorials and they had the right to as well.

I actually think you believe every word you have written. It’s not a lie if one believes its truth. Please give those who oppose you the same consideration.

Last edited by Kracken; 10-01-2009 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Deleted question to elchase
Kracken is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Kracken For This Useful Post:
DEJ (10-01-2009)
Old 10-01-2009, 01:02 PM   #114
Resident 2B
Senior Member
 
Resident 2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bradenton, FL and North Shore, MA
Posts: 1,331
Thanks: 922
Thanked 295 Times in 150 Posts
Default Use the Ignore Feature

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmen24 View Post
Elchase is apparently the type of person that truely enjoys having people talk about him. I would recommend that we do not continue to temp him back, discuss the subject of his posts and pretend that it came out of thin air, he will eventually get frustrated with not having anyone talk about him or his ideals.
I have elchase on ignore.

Reading his posts became something I decided I no longer needed to do. If we all had him on ignore, the silence would be golden.

R2B

Last edited by Resident 2B; 10-01-2009 at 03:06 PM. Reason: Spelling
Resident 2B is offline  
Old 10-01-2009, 01:06 PM   #115
OCDACTIVE
Senior Member
 
OCDACTIVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro
Posts: 1,045
Thanks: 444
Thanked 573 Times in 178 Posts
Default

Kracken, Take everyone else's advice and don't bother engaging.. Nothing can come out of it.... No need getting down to that level.

Farve fades back to pass... pressure and is sacked...........
__________________
Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?

Last edited by OCDACTIVE; 10-01-2009 at 02:57 PM.
OCDACTIVE is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to OCDACTIVE For This Useful Post:
DEJ (10-01-2009), DoTheMath (10-01-2009)
Old 10-01-2009, 01:07 PM   #116
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default Just a few comments

Questions remain.

And will remain unasked

El, I can only direct you to this thread I started, and pretty much spoke my peace. Feel free to contribute.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8617
VtSteve is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to VtSteve For This Useful Post:
OCDACTIVE (10-04-2009)
Old 10-01-2009, 02:40 PM   #117
Kracken
Senior Member
 
Kracken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alton
Posts: 223
Thanks: 46
Thanked 130 Times in 50 Posts
Default

You are correct OCDACTIVE, I have detracted the question to elchase.

Last edited by Kracken; 10-01-2009 at 03:25 PM.
Kracken is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Kracken For This Useful Post:
DEJ (10-01-2009), DoTheMath (10-01-2009), Ryan (10-01-2009)
Old 10-01-2009, 04:24 PM   #118
Gilligan
Senior Member
 
Gilligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The Bay State
Posts: 119
Thanks: 8
Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts
Lightbulb I don't need speed or speed limits

I won't quote the entire letter but will highlight a few items. I'll also add a few comments in blue

Quote:
Originally Posted by elchase View Post
Here's a well-articulated story from the same paper that you guys conveniently missed that explains it better;
ftp://www.laconiadailysun.com/Laconiapdf/2009/9/29L.pdf

"For those who need to pilot a boat at 90 MPH, the ocean is nearby what about 60 mph?
To the editor,
The letters from Mr. Verdonk and
Mr. Stewart exemplify the problems
the high speed boating crowd faces
trying to find fault with a speed limit. Not A speed limit, THIS 45/25 mph limit
They just don’t know how to find a
problem with such a sensible law, so
they make things up. who decreed that this 45/25 mph is a sensible law?
While I appreciate that Mr. Stewart
at least had the fortitude to admit
that boaters slowed down because of
the speed limit, saying that the only
thing that did was erode her shoreline
is just plain silly. Why would a “ginormous”
boat going 45 erode her shoreline
and the same boat going 85 not? "ginormous" boat is a very prejudicial term. Fast boats come in all sizes. 16-21 feet is not "ginormous" and we know that slow going boats can PLOW leaving huge wakes that travel more than 150 feet while faster boats, on plane, can leave much smaller wakes.
If “ginormous” boats are going anything
over headway speed that close
to his shoreline, then he has other
causes to complain besides a speed
limit. If “ginormous” boats were going
that close to my shoreline, I certainly
wouldn’t want them to be going 85
MPH. Of course, laws other than "speed limits" are being broken and what if they were going 55 or 60 mph 300 feet from your shore?...

Several weekends in August the lake was
as crowded as I’ve ever seen it, but it
just FELT LIKE it was less crowded slower boats made what was a crowded lake be perceived as a less crowded lake to the writer, interesting.
because almost everyone was going
slower, as Ms. Stewart also saw. How
did the economy do that? More civility
during sunny days when the lake
is just as crowded has nothing to do
with the economy or bad weather. The
economy and rain might have affected
the boating numbers this year (at
times), but it could only have been the
speed limit that slowed them down, as
Mr. Stewart himself admits.

The typical Granite Stater new to
this whole discussion will ask how
anyone could rationalize opposition to
a reasonable limit of boating speeds Who declared that 45/25mph was a reasonable limit. Why not 55/35 or 65/35 or some other speeds?
on a lake so crowded with such big
boats. Oh there are so many big boats you claim why not a size limit instead of a speed limit? Are we being logical?
But of course, those who make
a lot of money over-crowding our
lake with over-fast boats and those
who boast about the “need for speed”
are not your typical Granite Staters.
They don’t think rationally. Their selfish
interests and “needs” cloud their
common sense. I don't make any money from boats, fast or slow. I have no need for speed. My boat can not reach 45 mph and there are MANY of us like that who oppose the 45/25 limit. And we are rational thinkers.
And they are not interested
in the activities that most Granite
Staters enjoy or that NH wants to
offer tourists to attract them to come
here. Says who? How does the writer know this? It's made up.

The brochures one picks up at our
rest stops show the natural beauty of
our state. Photos depict our beautiful
lakes and mountains as safe and
open to family recreational activities.
You see canoes and sailboats. You see
families water skiing and fishing. You
see loons and sunsets. Imagine how
many tourists we’d attract if those
brochures instead showed 6-ton boats
flying around at 80-90 mph amongst
the canoes and kayaks? This makes me laugh. Lets show boats going only 55 or 60 mph, OK? Better yet, how can we tell speed from STILL PICTURES?
That is not the NH I grew up in, Not much is the way it was when I was growing up. The world is growing up or that my summer
neighbors want to come to. For every
one tourist such an image attracts to
NH, it will send 100 somewhere else. I'd tell you what kind of images attract me and many other men, but this thread is not a bikini topic although those have been known get boat operators to slow down
See what that does to our economy,
Mr. Verdonk.
Forty-five MPH is a very reasonable
top speed for a boat on Lake Winnipesaukee.
It’s the typical speed limit
on lakes like Winnipesaukee around
the country and has proven effective
over and over. There is not a single
lake-appropriate boating activity that
one cannot enjoy at 45 MPH. And for
those with “the need” to go 90 MPH,
the ocean is just 50 miles down the
road. Anyone who argues that 45 is
too slow for this lake, It's not to slow for the lake. It's to slow to be a top limit.
whether blaming it on shore erosion, the economy,
the weather, or some other nonsensical
reason, is just not being honest. The writer assusmes that anyone who disagrees with 45/25 is DISHONEST, ouch!
As Mr. Chase’s letter said, the bottom
line is that NH’s citizens asked for the
law and seem to love its effects, while
the offenders are obviously unhappy
with it. How many laws can we say
that about? And doesn’t that prove it’s
working? No it does nott prove it is working. Many of us NONoffenders are unhappy about the 45/25 speed limit law. The writer is simply promulgating propaganda and making false assumptions.
Jack Weeks
Meredith"


PS; I bet it will take less than one hundred and twenty seconds for OCD to respond.
__________________
Gilligan is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Gilligan For This Useful Post:
DoTheMath (10-04-2009), hazelnut (10-02-2009), NoRegrets (10-05-2009), Resident 2B (10-02-2009), Ryan (10-02-2009), Sandy Beach (10-04-2009), VtSteve (10-03-2009)
Old 10-01-2009, 07:32 PM   #119
DoTheMath
Senior Member
 
DoTheMath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: MA / Black Cat Island
Posts: 131
Thanks: 35
Thanked 41 Times in 17 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE View Post
Kracken, Take everyone else's advice and don't bother engaging.. Nothing can come out of it.... No need getting down to that level.

Farve fades back to pass... pressure and is sacked...........
Bingo! Don't feed the trolls...
DoTheMath is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to DoTheMath For This Useful Post:
OCDACTIVE (10-04-2009)
Old 10-02-2009, 02:10 PM   #120
hazelnut
Senior Member
 
hazelnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,348
Thanks: 503
Thanked 461 Times in 161 Posts
Default Gilligan!

GREAT JOB GILLIGAN!!!

You hit the nail so hard on the head it 'aint even funny!

I couldn't have said it better.
hazelnut is offline  
Old 10-04-2009, 09:43 AM   #121
Sandy Beach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 71
Thanks: 9
Thanked 9 Times in 3 Posts
Arrow Gilligan, why ruin good propaganda?

Gilligan,

What are you doing? Pointing out the fallacies of speed limit proponents might ruin their credibility. The general non-boating public might recognize that these pro speed limit arguments are designed to illicit fear and portray the lake as a scary and unsafe place. They make it sound like it was only fit for dare-devils and did not have a nice family friendly atmosphere. They want the public to believe that the 45-25 mph speed limit has made the lake safe and civil as if it was not like that before the 2 year speed limit experiment.

If you and some of the other irrational thinkers (as some call opponents of the 25 - 45 limit) keep questioning their illogical premises it might sink in to those who are unfamiliar with boating just what kind of scare tactics the pro speed limit crowd is using to elicit their support and appeal to their sensibilities.

Why do you want to ruin their pro-speed limit fantasies? They will out talk you and keep making the same false allegations of a wild lake over and over again until the public gives up and accepts their rhetoric without regard to reality and the truth.

I didn't know the lake was unsafe and uncivil until I started reading what the pro-speed limit minority had to say . And to think I exposed my wife and children to this lake and enjoyed it without absolute speed limits all these years.

disclaimer: I have no connection with the boating or tourist industry and I do not have a boat capable of speeds over 40 mph and I DO NOT support the 45 - 25 mph speed limit.

P.S. Thanks Gilligan
Sandy Beach is offline  
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Sandy Beach For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (10-04-2009), DEJ (10-04-2009), hazelnut (10-05-2009), OCDACTIVE (10-04-2009), Resident 2B (10-04-2009)
Old 10-04-2009, 11:05 AM   #122
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy Beach View Post
I didn't know the lake was unsafe and uncivil until I started reading what the pro-speed limit minority had to say . And to think I exposed my wife and children to this lake and enjoyed it without absolute speed limits all these years.

disclaimer: I have no connection with the boating or tourist industry and I do not have a boat capable of speeds over 40 mph and I DO NOT support the 45 - 25 mph speed limit.

P.S. Thanks Gilligan
Amazing what one accident caused by an intoxicated boater can do isn't it? A televised debate would be a very, very welcome situation. Once you got past the lies and innuendo, what would be left is crickets chirping.

Some of us tried in earnest to have real discussions, not debates, about safety. The SL supporters wanted nothing to do with any of that. For many life long boaters, safety and enjoyment is what it's all about. The SL supporters have shown they are only interested in their own interests. We have APS, that once said it was great to have motorists blocking the left lane on highways in what he called "rolling roadblocks" or some such thing.

I understand extreme noise and chaos is not popular, I don't like it either and would stop it. Try to engage in rational discussion with these folks and it becomes readily apparent that they don't share your thoughts at all. They want one or more groups of boaters off the lake, pretty much Period.
VtSteve is offline  
Old 10-04-2009, 04:10 PM   #123
OCDACTIVE
Senior Member
 
OCDACTIVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro
Posts: 1,045
Thanks: 444
Thanked 573 Times in 178 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elchase View Post
PS; I bet it will take less than one hundred and twenty seconds for OCD to respond.
Lost that bet.... not worth it anymore anyway.
__________________
Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?
OCDACTIVE is offline  
Old 10-05-2009, 09:23 AM   #124
elchase
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE View Post
Lost that bet.... not worth it anymore anyway.
Poor boy. That challenge must have been so painful for you to resist. You must have thought "how long do I need to wait to respond without looking like a nerd?". I notice you were "thankyouing" the other posters right off the bat. Are you ever not logged into these threads?
Now try to get outside for a bit today so Mom can pick up your room.
 
Old 10-05-2009, 09:30 AM   #125
OCDACTIVE
Senior Member
 
OCDACTIVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro
Posts: 1,045
Thanks: 444
Thanked 573 Times in 178 Posts
Default

didn't you say your good byes? Obviously you are trying to make things personal and I am not taking the bait.

This is why these threads get a bad name and I am not bringing them down as you have shown all along to be your intention.

Have fun on the water.... See you out there.


Farve is playing tonight..
__________________
Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?
OCDACTIVE is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to OCDACTIVE For This Useful Post:
DEJ (10-05-2009)
Old 10-05-2009, 10:01 AM   #126
SIKSUKR
Senior Member
 
SIKSUKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,052
Thanks: 215
Thanked 892 Times in 504 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elchase View Post
Poor boy. That challenge must have been so painful for you to resist. You must have thought "how long do I need to wait to respond without looking like a nerd?". I notice you were "thankyouing" the other posters right off the bat. Are you ever not logged into these threads?
Now try to get outside for a bit today so Mom can pick up your room.
Elchase is now officially a TROLL after this uncalled for post.Why do you stoop so low?You've lost what little credibility you had now.
__________________
SIKSUKR
SIKSUKR is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to SIKSUKR For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (10-05-2009), chipj29 (10-05-2009), DEJ (10-05-2009), gtagrip (10-05-2009), NoRegrets (10-05-2009), OCDACTIVE (10-05-2009), Resident 2B (10-05-2009), Winnigirl (10-05-2009)
Old 10-05-2009, 10:32 AM   #127
Kracken
Senior Member
 
Kracken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alton
Posts: 223
Thanks: 46
Thanked 130 Times in 50 Posts
Default

I thought Brett Farve retired?

Then he came back....
Then he retired again
Then he came back....

Now he is saying this is not about revenge????

Looks like revenge to me.
Kracken is offline  
Old 10-05-2009, 02:37 PM   #128
sunset on the dock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 254
Thanks: 91
Thanked 61 Times in 41 Posts
Default

Hey...aren't we getting all getting a little touchy here about El's last post? Seems as if we've seen more than a couple posts "razzing" him , comments like the the one about him chasing felons, etc., etc., etc. Why all of a sudden this new higher standard for posting? Is it because he's one of the few SL supporters left on the forum who hasn't been badgered into oblivion? There's a few of you who can sure dish it out, but when it comes to taking it in return, well....
sunset on the dock is offline  
Old 10-05-2009, 03:06 PM   #129
OCDACTIVE
Senior Member
 
OCDACTIVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro
Posts: 1,045
Thanks: 444
Thanked 573 Times in 178 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunset on the dock View Post
Hey...aren't we getting all getting a little touchy here about El's last post? Seems as if we've seen more than a couple posts "razzing" him , comments like the the one about him chasing felons, etc., etc., etc. Why all of a sudden this new higher standard for posting? Is it because he's one of the few SL supporters left on the forum who hasn't been badgered into oblivion? There's a few of you who can sure dish it out, but when it comes to taking it in return, well....
Sunset... Come on... I have been one of your biggest supporters. We have agreed to disagree on the SL issue and have kept things very cordial in many situations that could have been easily taken the wrong way...

There are many SL supporters that have been on here since day one and still are. They, like yourself, have been involved in some very heated discussions but it never got to the point of any personal attacks. And if it was construed that way it was immediately followed up with an apology.

El has in 68 posts driven his own reputation down. And no one has forced him to do so or to continue to stir the pot.

You have been one of the leading SL supporter and contributer to your cause. Although I don't agree with your views you do put them out there in a very dignified manner and again I applaud you for those actions. Don't get dragged along for the ride leading to no good.
__________________
Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?
OCDACTIVE is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to OCDACTIVE For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (10-05-2009), DEJ (10-05-2009), hazelnut (10-05-2009), Winnigirl (10-05-2009)
Old 10-05-2009, 04:46 PM   #130
onlywinni
Senior Member
 
onlywinni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Laconia
Posts: 108
Thanks: 6
Thanked 39 Times in 16 Posts
Default

I wish Mr. Weeks and his cronies would just admit, their real agenda is to:

Eliminate Performance Boats from Winnipesaukee

If they truly cared about Safety a Safe Passage Law is all that is needed. If a performance boat or any vessel is traveling at an unsafe speed for the conditions then the MP have the ability to cite someone.

In any event I have news for Mr. Weeks and his cronies...

Performance Boats and their captains are not going anywhere...this is our lake too


In case people forget..performance boats have been a part of Winni since the early days...

http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/R...story-1926.htm
onlywinni is offline  
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to onlywinni For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (10-05-2009), chipj29 (10-06-2009), DoTheMath (10-06-2009), hazelnut (10-05-2009), OCDACTIVE (10-05-2009), Resident 2B (10-06-2009), Wolfeboro_Baja (10-06-2009)
Old 10-05-2009, 04:56 PM   #131
OCDACTIVE
Senior Member
 
OCDACTIVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro
Posts: 1,045
Thanks: 444
Thanked 573 Times in 178 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlywinni View Post
I wish Mr. Weeks and his cronies would just admit, their real agenda is to:

Eliminate Performance Boats from Winnipesaukee

If they truly cared about Safety a Safe Passage Law is all that is needed. If a performance boat or any vessel is traveling at an unsafe speed for the conditions then the MP have the ability to cite someone.

In any event I have news for Mr. Weeks and his cronies...

Performance Boats and their captains are not going anywhere...this is our lake too


In case people forget..performance boats have been a part of Winni since the early days...

http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/R...story-1926.htm

I couldn't agree more.

It is clear and has even been stated by some SL supporters that they do not have an actual problem with speed but with other issues such as noise.

They are using this as a front to move their agenda. It is only matter of time before they start on limits on Horsepower, then "size" of the boat all together. This way to target not only performance boats but cruisers as well.

A shame to say the least.
__________________
Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?
OCDACTIVE is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to OCDACTIVE For This Useful Post:
NoRegrets (10-06-2009), Resident 2B (10-06-2009)
Old 10-05-2009, 05:35 PM   #132
Yosemite Sam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lakes Region
Posts: 395
Thanks: 81
Thanked 95 Times in 56 Posts
Default

CHAPTER 270-D, “BOATING AND WATER SAFETY ON NEW HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC WATERS” http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...-D/270-D-2.htm already has a section (Section 270-D:2 X a) that talks about "Safe Passage".
To me that is good enough and they can remove sub paragraphs b, c, and d of that section.

Section 270-D:2
X. (a) No person shall operate a vessel on Lake Winnipesaukee at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the existing conditions and without regard for the actual and potential hazards then existing. In all cases, speed shall be controlled so that the operator will be able to avoid endangering or colliding with any person, vessel, object, or shore.
(b) Where no hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subparagraph (a), the speed of any vessel in excess of the limit specified in this subparagraph shall be prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable or prudent and that it is unlawful:
(1) 25 miles per hour during the period from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise; and
(2) 45 miles per hour at any other time.
(c) The speed limitations set forth in subparagraph (b) shall not apply to vessels when operated with due regard for safety under the direction of the peace officers in the chase or apprehension of violators of the law or of persons charged with, or suspected of, any such violation, nor to fire department or fire patrol vessels, nor to private emergency vessels when traveling to emergencies. This exemption shall not, however, protect the operator of any such vessel from the consequences of a reckless disregard of the safety of others.
(d) The speed limitations set forth in subparagraph (b) shall not apply to boat racing permitted under RSA 270:27.
Yosemite Sam is offline  
Old 10-05-2009, 09:49 PM   #133
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default

It should be noted that El Chase scoffed at the Safe Passage rule. I believe that was the same time Codeman's boat problem story was being scoffed at as well.

This is fine

"Section 270-D:2
X. (a) No person shall operate a vessel on Lake Winnipesaukee at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the existing conditions and without regard for the actual and potential hazards then existing. In all cases, speed shall be controlled so that the operator will be able to avoid endangering or colliding with any person, vessel, object, or shore. "
VtSteve is offline  
Old 10-06-2009, 10:36 AM   #134
Wolfeboro_Baja
Senior Member
 
Wolfeboro_Baja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hopkinton NH
Posts: 395
Thanks: 88
Thanked 80 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onlywinni View Post
Performance Boats and their captains are not going anywhere...this is our lake too
True, I'm not going anywhere; as far as I'm concerned, this lake is still the best place to go boating, speed limits or no speed limits. I'll apologize now to anyone who is disturbed by the noise of my boat but remember, my Baja is legal.

Of course, if they're just disturbed, that's they're problem!

Sam, I agree; the first paragraph is all that's needed for the Marine Patrol. I wonder, if the MP could speak their mind publicly, what their position would be?
__________________
Cancer SUCKS!
Wolfeboro_Baja is offline  
Old 10-06-2009, 03:11 PM   #135
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default I wonder

if anyone's read through the buildup of this issue from way back in 2002. You would think that with all the media articles written since then, that the Littlefield accident would have left some fresh memories for people. Perhaps not, since the vast majority of facts from that case are never spoken about, yet it continues to be the fuel for the fire even now.

Facts that are not spoken of.

1) Littlefield was seen by many witnesses at The Meredith Town Docks
He was seen dancing around, by himself, eyes closed.

2) Littlefield was seen at the docks in his boat, fumbling around before leaving.

3) Several witnesses testified at trial that Littlefield had slurred his speech, and was visibly impaired.

4) There were even questions about the victim's stern light, something he had sought to replace according to a marina employee.

5) Littlefield was not convicted of BUI, since he was AWOL for about 48 hours, rendering a blood test useless.

6) The bar that Littlefield was drunk dancing in, and left from, that fateful night, has a direct link to That organization that promotes the SL passage.

7) Littlefield's insurance company disallowed the claims, because "The company said its coverage is barred, however, because it excludes criminal acts. The policy excludes coverage for "any loss, damage or liability willfully, intentionally or criminally caused or incurred by an insured person.''"
VtSteve is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.24198 seconds