Paddle boarder struck by pontoon boat

[TiltonBB]

There is not much information in the article on WMUR. Neither the town where it occurred or the hospital she was taken is listed.

https://www.wmur.com/article/lake-wi...board/37137516

[AC2717]

i dont have a link but was on marine patrol's site.
no substances/booze were involved. those on boat rendered assistance, Don't understand how something like this could happen in a no wake zone, either one or both were not paying attention

[fatlazyless]

NH State Police-Marine Patrol twitter has a press release on it which says it happened on Monday, July 26 at about 2-pm off of Church Landing in Meredith. The paddleboarder is a 51-year old woman from Chappaqua NY, and the pontoon boat driver is a 51-year old woman from Franklin, Mass.

Marine Patrol, Meredith Police, and Stewart's Ambulance responded and the paddleboarder was transported to Concord Hospital in Laconia for evaluation.

Experience Winnipesaukee: www.ekalactivitycenter.com is a paddleboard rental business that is very very close to this location so maybe it was a rental Pelican paddleboard, not that it makes any too big a difference with regard to anything? .....

Like ..... who knows ...... but maybe both the pontoon and the paddleboard were rentals ..... is possible?

[ITD]

The boat driver is screwed, doesn't matter who was not paying attention.

[LikeLakes]

Hit while the pontoon boat was trying to dock. Could be she reversed and hit her going backwards, I see a fair number of people reverse and not look behind them.

[Flotnjr]

Sounds like the boat driver went up over the dock- if I had to guess, panic mode, hit the throttle too fast.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by Flotnjr

Sounds like the boat driver went up over the dock- if I had to guess, panic mode, hit the throttle too fast.

If anyone has a link to more details than that WMUR bit, please share. I paddle board quite a bit and am very interested in learning what happened.

[XCR-700]

WOW, that sounds like chaos and tragedy.

I see so many unsafe actions on the water its actually surprising we dont have so many more accidents.

On the rise of late are people playing with cell phones while driving boats. No idea what on earth could be so important that you need to look at your phone while piloting a boat,,,

[winniwannabe]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

WOW, that sounds like chaos and tragedy.

I see so many unsafe actions on the water its actually surprising we dont have so many more accidents.

On the rise of late are people playing with cell phones while driving boats. No idea what on earth could be so important that you need to look at your phone while piloting a boat,,,

Why would it be any different for some visitors to abandon their phones? They drive anything with a motor and don't care. New rules need to be put in place for the lakes... not restricting rights, but just common sense regulations that need to be enforced. just my opinion.

[BroadHopper]

Don't know how to link the Instagram video here. It's not too hard to find.

Clearly shows both victims are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Both are not showing good judgment. Can't tell if either is renters but shows inexperience.

My 2 cents.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Don't know how to link the Instagram video here. It's not too hard to find.

Clearly shows both victims are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Both are not showing good judgment. Can't tell if either is renters but shows inexperience.

My 2 cents.

Kinda wondered if that would end up being the case.

Either way it very unfortunate for all involved.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Don't know how to link the Instagram video here. It's not too hard to find.

Clearly shows both victims are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Both are not showing good judgment. Can't tell if either is renters but shows inexperience.

My 2 cents.

I'm searching instagram and not seeing it. Could you or anyone else give me a link or what to use for a search string?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

I'm searching instagram and not seeing it. Could you or anyone else give me a link or what to use for a search string?

Same here,,,

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Same here,,,

XCR, if only we had someone below the age of 20 to search for us, I'm guessing they would find it in 7 seconds!

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

XCR, if only we had someone below the age of 20 to search for us, I'm guessing they would find it in 7 seconds!

You are soooo right!

I dont have an instagram account so maybe thats part of the problem, but in truth I will never have one as I usually have little use for their nonsense,,,

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by winniwannabe

Why would it be any different for some visitors to abandon their phones? They drive anything with a motor and don't care. New rules need to be put in place for the lakes... not restricting rights, but just common sense regulations that need to be enforced. just my opinion.

Agreed!

If you need to check you phone or want to take a picture, then stop the boat or have someone else take the helm. Its not rocket science,,,

Now what all that said, I have also see other people (not the boat operator) doing really dangerous things and they need to be held just as responsible for their actions. Best intentions I have seen complete strangers attempting to help boaters dock and in doing so place themselves at great risk of harm, I personally do not believe the boat operator should be held responsible for someone sticking their foot/leg out to stop a boat at the dock and then suffering an injury. I have seen boat operators saying no and attempting to stop the docking procedure, but in some cases it may be too late,,, I have also seen people swimming and paddle-boarding around active docks and thats just stupid and an accident waiting to happen. Its also frightening seeing people attempting to retrieve items dropped between boats and docks,,,

Common sense must be practiced by all who use boat dock areas.

[gillygirl]

Third failure to find on the IG page.


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[Descant]

Paddle boarding is only a (mis)step away from swimming. I remeber coming into the Meredith docks and a group of PB renters went in a line across the docks. Boats entering could see them, perhpas, but difficult for someone backing a boat out. The same town rules that prohibit swimming from public docks should apply to those on PB too. In many towns the authority is already in place for Selectmen to add or modify rules; this is a much better process in terms of speed and addressing local issues than trying to craft a state law to address many many different situations. Unfortunately, towns would normally post signs on land where PB's can't see them, but at least PB renters and dealers would know. Nothing is easy when you try to legislate what, to you and me, might be common sense and never occurs to the uninitiated.

[LikeLakes]

I don't agree. It's simple, and has always been the way it works .... powered boats have to yield to non-powered. Yield to sail boats, yield to kayaks and canoes and rowboats and pedal boats and .... paddle boards. No rules needed to keep them away from public docks, power boats at public docks have to be aware enough and not distracted. It is not hard to see a kayak, or paddle board, or canoe, or rowboat behind you or in front of you when entering or leaving a slip. And I don't equate a swimmer with any of the above non powered craft.

Just my take, and I'm an avid power boater and paddle boarder and kayaker.

[Descant]

A paddle boarder who falls is a swimmer and may be distanced from the PB. At that point s/he may be swimming near docks, where, beyond common sense, it is just not allowed. It's like going hiking on a NH mountain; if ill-prepared, you are libel to the state for rescue expenses. Right of way for non-powered vessels notwithstanding, if you're stupid and get hurt, it doesn't matter who is paying the hospital bills, you were still stupid.
Years after the accident, while you are still waiting for the court settlement I hope you will be saying to yourself. "Boy, was I stupid. Bad place to be paddle boarding."

[LikeLakes]

Should kayaks be banned from docking areas as well? People fall in from them quite often, I saw one 2 weeks ago. Canoes?

I realize people fall off paddle boards. Rarely are you separated from the board by more than one swimming stroke. A kayak is much harder to get back into, with a paddle board you simply climb on.

Is it possible for me to have an opinion, and disagree with you, without being stupid?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

Should kayaks be banned from docking areas as well? People fall in from them quite often, I saw one 2 weeks ago. Canoes?

I realize people fall off paddle boards. Rarely are you separated from the board by more than one swimming stroke. A kayak is much harder to get back into, with a paddle board you simply climb on.

Is it possible for me to have an opinion, and disagree with you, without being stupid?

Yes I totally support banning paddle boards from public docks, it is a common sense recipe for disaster. I see no reason to intentionally intermix the two activities of paddle boarding and powerboating in the close and very difficult confines of a public dock area. NOTHING good can come from this interaction, only potential tragedy.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Yes I totally support banning paddle boards from public docks, it is a common sense recipe for disaster. I see no reason to intentionally intermix the two activities of paddle boarding and powerboating in the close and very difficult confines of a public dock area. NOTHING good can come from this interaction, only potential tragedy.

So if we used Meredith as the example. Say I pull my truck up to the public launch ramp, drop the paddle boards on the side, go park the truck, and then we head out on the boards. If we are heading south, how far out do we need to paddle before we are clear of the proposed "no paddle board zone" surrounding the docks?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

So if we used Meredith as the example. Say I pull my truck up to the public launch ramp, drop the paddle boards on the side, go park the truck, and then we head out on the boards. If we are heading south, how far out do we need to paddle before we are clear of the proposed "no paddle board zone" surrounding the docks?

By necessity you will need to start there but I would think common sense would tell you to head out away from a busy boating area.

Using a paddle board or a kayak in a busy area does not make sense to me. I think of that every time I see a kayak or paddle board go through the Weirs Channel on a busy day.

It makes about as much sense as going out for exercise and walking down the breakdown lane on Route 93. Why? There are much better places, for both activities.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

By necessity you will need to start there but I would think common sense would tell you to head out away from a busy boating area.

Using a paddle board or a kayak in a busy area does not make sense to me. I think of that every time I see a kayak or paddle board go through the Weirs Channel on a busy day.

It makes about as much sense as going out for exercise and walking down the breakdown lane on Route 93. Why? There are much better places, for both activities.

I agree that I don't really want to be close to the docks. But in the case I mentioned I can either stay maybe 50 ft. clear of them, head past on my way to get further south, do the same on the way back, but I'd certainly be in a high boat traffic area with people lining up to dock. Or, I can go a few hundred yards out, which is a relatively long detour on a paddle board.

I chose Meredith because the docks are right next to the launch, and are substantial in length, so it's not like I can just avoid them without a big alteration of course. No, my intended goal is not to spend a lot of time paddling around the docks, but I don't think it's unreasonable or unsafe to paddle through the area.

Descant, so a person standing on a paddle board with a life jacket on is no safer than a swimmer in the water with an above-water profile of like 8 inches, without a flotation device? Strange logic to me.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

I agree that I don't really want to be close to the docks. But in the case I mentioned I can either stay maybe 50 ft. clear of them, head past on my way to get further south, do the same on the way back, but I'd certainly be in a high boat traffic area with people lining up to dock. Or, I can go a few hundred yards out, which is a relatively long detour on a paddle board.

I chose Meredith because the docks are right next to the launch, and are substantial in length, so it's not like I can just avoid them without a big alteration of course. No, my intended goal is not to spend a lot of time paddling around the docks, but I don't think it's unreasonable or unsafe to paddle through the area.

Descant, so a person standing on a paddle board with a life jacket on is no safer than a swimmer in the water with an above-water profile of like 8 inches, without a flotation device? Strange logic to me.

You raise a very legitimate point and at the same time reinforce a great concern.

Why launch a paddle board at a boat ramp? This makes no sense to me at all, its dangerous and challenging place and activity for boaters, and for paddle boarders it looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Now the answer to my first questions is, because where else will you launch them, and the answer to that is, the town should be assessing this matter to ensure the safety of all, and adding an additional and different paddle board launch site. Such a site would not cost a fortune as you should not need ramps, a dock, etc.

There should be a reasonable solution to this that works for everyone and minimizes actual to both groups so we can all use the lake and enjoy a reasonable level of safety from actual risk.

Its not rocket science and its not that hard, we make it all unnecessarily difficult. Why, god only knows, human nature,,,

ATB

[LikeLakes]

You are right XCR, if there was an alternative place for paddle boards and kayaks to launch it would be better for all.

We have launched them on a variety of lakes and ponds in NH, on Champlain, on Lake Placid, among others. Most of the time it is at a public boat launch because there is parking and it is allowed. Ironically, most places with public swimming access will not allow you to launch, they tell you it's for swimmers only and you need to go to a boat launch.

We are competent boarders and very low impact at a launch. I realize not everyone fits those categories. We put the boards on the side somewhere so it doesn't prevent anyone from launching a boat, we get on them and are gone, literally doesn't affect the boat ramp in any way beyond the 90 seconds it takes me to take them out of the truck bed and put them on the ground.

I'm guessing every person on this thread can boat their entire lifetime without hitting, or even endangering, a paddle board or kayak. Unfortunately stuff happens, as did to the person who was hit. But, I'm not sure an incident requires a need to put rules in place. I'd rather see some thoughtful people take a look at the incident and the situation and decide if action is needed or if it's just a case of stuff happening. You can add 20 pages of rules to boating and swimming and paddling on the lake and somehow stuff will still happen occasionally.

[Woodsy]

I find it amazing that every time an accident happens there are those that immediately call for new rules....

It doesn't matter how many rules you add, accidents will happen! This event is a rarity... no need to go down the path of more rules & regulations.

Woodsy

[8gv]

Are there any more details available?

All I have so far is a pontoon and a paddle boarder collided and the paddle boarder went to a hospital.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I find it amazing that every time an accident happens there are those that immediately call for new rules....

It doesn't matter how many rules you add, accidents will happen! This event is a rarity... no need to go down the path of more rules & regulations.

Woodsy

As a general rule I agree, but in this case we are talking about more than the one accident, we are talking about a change in use that was not conceived of when the docks were built. At that time no one could have imagined 30'+ power boats would be fighting for space on those docks and that anyone would be using something like a paddle board in the same exact space at the same exact time. Its not a well considered plan. I suspect town tax dollars could be diverted from some pet project that only benefits the few insiders could be diverted to providing a safer location for the paddle boarders to launch, AND not some obscure place that they dont want to be. Meredith Bay looks like an almost perfect location to paddle board (as said by someone who has never been on one) BUT NOT in and directly around the boat docks. It looks frightening, especially with all the new and unskilled boaters I see struggling at the docks. I cringe to see paddle boarders in that space.

[ITD]

People need to know how to drive their boats. If this person ended up on a dock, it is even more their fault. The paddle board has the right of way, period. The boater should have stopped and waited. If the boater is unable to do so, they shouldn't be at a public dock.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

People need to know how to drive their boats. If this person ended up on a dock, it is even more their fault. The paddle board has the right of way, period. The boater should have stopped and waited. If the boater is unable to do so, they shouldn't be at a public dock.

People need to know how to drive their cars, but scenic walks on interstate highways are prohibited.

And so it should be around docks, just way too much risk. It may not be the paddle boarders fault they got run over, but they will suffer the impact.

Its not about responsibility its about likelihood of a problem and risk if it were to occur, and both are high for impacts between paddle boards and boats in the confines and conditions of boat docks.

Or do you believe you should be able to just walk down the interstate highway and then hold drivers responsible should they run you over,,,

[ApS]

Originally Posted by ITD

People need to know how to drive their boats. If this person ended up on a dock, it is even more their fault. The paddle board has the right of way, period. The boater should have stopped and waited. If the boater is unable to do so, they shouldn't be at a public dock.

Lake Winnipesaukee won't be safe until canoes, kayaks, sailboats, and SUPs are legally swept from the lake!

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

You are right XCR, if there was an alternative place for paddle boards and kayaks to launch it would be better for all.

We have launched them on a variety of lakes and ponds in NH, on Champlain, on Lake Placid, among others. Most of the time it is at a public boat launch because there is parking and it is allowed. Ironically, most places with public swimming access will not allow you to launch, they tell you it's for swimmers only and you need to go to a boat launch.

We are competent boarders and very low impact at a launch. I realize not everyone fits those categories. We put the boards on the side somewhere so it doesn't prevent anyone from launching a boat, we get on them and are gone, literally doesn't affect the boat ramp in any way beyond the 90 seconds it takes me to take them out of the truck bed and put them on the ground.

I'm guessing every person on this thread can boat their entire lifetime without hitting, or even endangering, a paddle board or kayak. Unfortunately stuff happens, as did to the person who was hit. But, I'm not sure an incident requires a need to put rules in place. I'd rather see some thoughtful people take a look at the incident and the situation and decide if action is needed or if it's just a case of stuff happening. You can add 20 pages of rules to boating and swimming and paddling on the lake and somehow stuff will still happen occasionally.

Very well said, nothing more I can add and no disputes here. Thanks.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Yes I totally support banning paddle boards from public docks, it is a common sense recipe for disaster. I see no reason to intentionally intermix the two activities of paddle boarding and powerboating in the close and very difficult confines of a public dock area. NOTHING good can come from this interaction, only potential tragedy.

I find it interesting that open carry is a right, never to be infringed on, but paddle boarders should be banned at a public dock because they get in the way of motorboats.

Really not looking to spark debate, just find it interesting.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I find it interesting that open carry is a right, never to be infringed on, but paddle boarders should be banned at a public dock because they get in the way of motorboats.

Really not looking to spark debate, just find it interesting.

Why, a gun in a holster has no impact on anyone, but an unpowered vessel trying to navigate in close quarters sharing the same space with much larger powered vessels presents a very real danger of being unable to avoid a potential impact when you throw in the challenges of other boats wakes, wind, current, etc.

These are simple mechanical matters, not personal fears.

Its not a matter of preference, its hard facts, which is what we should be basing risk on.

Now if you are taking about so reasonable standards that should be applied to open carry, such as the need for the gun to have a retention strap if it is carried in any other position than upright, or when not in a fitted holster, we might have a middle ground here. I'll be the first to say we cannot have guns falling our of holsters hitting the ground. We can also discuss handling of firearms in crowded areas, clearly racking a slide or rotating a cylinder in Market Basket is bad for everyone! Factual details are where we need to focus, not on fantasy or fear mongering.

Does that help to change your perspective on either matter at all?

If not, all I can say is you are entitled to your opinion, you will get no personal attack from me.

ATB

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Why, a gun in a holster has no impact on anyone, but an unpowered vessel trying to navigate in close quarters sharing the same space with much larger powered vessels presents a very real danger of being unable to avoid a potential impact when you throw in the challenges of other boats wakes, wind, current, etc.

These are simple mechanical matters, not personal fears.

Its not a matter of preference, its hard facts, which is what we should be basing risk on.

Now if you are taking about so reasonable standards that should be applied to open carry, such as the need for the gun to have a retention strap if it is carried in any other position than upright, or when not in a fitted holster, we might have a middle ground here. I'll be the first to say we cannot have guns falling our of holsters hitting the ground. We can also discuss handling of firearms in crowded areas, clearly racking a slide or rotating a cylinder in Market Basket is bad for everyone! Factual details are where we need to focus, not on fantasy or fear mongering.

Does that help to change your perspective on either matter at all?

If not, all I can say is you are entitled to your opinion, you will get no personal attack from me.

ATB

There are a couple of cases of open carry incidents in the link below that might make you reassess your perspective.

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com...of-open-carry/


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[CK5 Truck]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

Should kayaks be banned from docking areas as well? People fall in from them quite often, I saw one 2 weeks ago. Canoes?

I realize people fall off paddle boards. Rarely are you separated from the board by more than one swimming stroke. A kayak is much harder to get back into, with a paddle board you simply climb on.

Is it possible for me to have an opinion, and disagree with you, without being stupid?

Canoes and kayaks are easier to control than a paddle board, people (even inexperienced ones) rarely fall out. Paddle boarding is not so much this way, it takes practice, you say you are into all 3 so you know this. Now put a new inexperienced person on one say a renter and put them in an already congested area like the Town Docks in Meredith and YES no good can come from that. They have no business being there. Im not saying they have no business on the lake, because EVERYONE has the right to enjoy doing what they do its my opinion and im sure others that its a bad idea. Personally IDK why anyone would want to canoe, kayak or paddle board on Winnipesaukee its crowded and the water is rough on weekends, how is that enjoyable? I live on Hermit Lake in Sanbornon, this is a perfect lake for those activities, 10hp pontoons only, no other boats allowed, its quiet its peaceful and enjoyable for sure.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

A paddle boarder who falls is a swimmer and may be distanced from the PB. At that point s/he may be swimming near docks, where, beyond common sense, it is just not allowed. It's like going hiking on a NH mountain; if ill-prepared, you are libel to the state for rescue expenses. Right of way for non-powered vessels notwithstanding, if you're stupid and get hurt, it doesn't matter who is paying the hospital bills, you were still stupid.
Years after the accident, while you are still waiting for the court settlement I hope you will be saying to yourself. "Boy, was I stupid. Bad place to be paddle boarding."

I think you mean liable... and not quite.
You have to be grossly negligent, and only are subject to billing for the State portion of the rescue.

In your comparison, the PBer would need to be ill equipped, and require state expenditure due to their actions.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I think you mean liable... and not quite.
You have to be grossly negligent, and only are subject to billing for the State portion of the rescue.

In your comparison, the PBer would need to be ill equipped, and require state expenditure due to their actions.

Yes, liable. Thank you. Autocorrect beat me.
I agree with your clarification. The main point was that new RSA's are not necessarily needed when towns have the ability to control local swim areas. Paddle boards, to me are not any safer around public docks than swimming.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Descant

Years after the accident, while you are still waiting for the court settlement I hope you will be saying to yourself. "Boy, was I stupid. Bad place to be paddle boarding."

I really dont think so with todays society, I honestly think they will be saying I cant wait to get my settlement, I'm going to be on "My Lottery Dream Home" show. And I have seen it, there was a guy who got a huge settlement in FLA that was on the show after he had been in a horrible jet ski accident.

Its not the world we grew up in, people live for today and if a horrible accident elevates your financial status to higher level than you could have ever earned by working, its worth a lifetime of pain and suffering (to most,,,)

I would rather be dirt poor than suffer one broken bone, or take a risk knowing there was a potential significant danger. Not todays generations, they fear no impact, they simply have faith that there will be a BIG payout for their sufferings.

Well thats what I am seeing,,,

[gillygirl]

EKAL isn’t that close to the busiest part of the docks. I don’t think the majority of people realize there are two public docks on that side. Guess I shouldn’t have been launching my kayak next to the jet ski launch in Glendale.


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

EKAL isn’t that close to the busiest part of the docks. I don’t think the majority of people realize there are two public docks on that side. Guess I shouldn’t have been launching my kayak next to the jet ski launch in Glendale.


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They didn't note specifically where the accident occurred. But as the economy begins to back off... less expensive pursuits tend to be the grounds we build our local business on. So we protect those less expensive pursuits.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

They didn't note specifically where the accident occurred. But as the economy begins to back off... less expensive pursuits tend to be the grounds we build our local business on. So we protect those less expensive pursuits.

From the pictures I’ve seen on the I boat… Facebook page, it was at the end of the dock on the right.




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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

From the pictures I’ve seen on the I boat… Facebook page, it was at the end of the dock on the right.Attachment 17153


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I believe that would be Church Landing, right next to the Lakehouse... basically right were EKAL is located.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I believe that would be Church Landing, right next to the Lakehouse... basically right were EKAL is located.

Yes, you can see EKAL labeled in the image. This is where they launch. It’s typically quiet. Not sure what the brouhaha is about them moving where they launch. They don’t launch at the main docks.


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[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Yes, you can see EKAL labeled in the image. This is where they launch. It’s typically quiet. Not sure what the brouhaha is about them moving where they launch. They don’t launch at the main docks.


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The discussion about moving were they launch was about people launching at the boat ramp, not EKAL.

Some part of the overall discussion was about the risks of all paddle boarders paddling around the boat docks, but not specifically EKAL.

[John Mercier]

EKAL was where it happened.
They inhabit that little cover area along with the other operations at Church Landing.

[mswlogo]

Mixing 30ft boats and paddle boards (and the like) are bound to cause problems.

Do we allow skate boards on the highway?

I don’t think paddle boards, kayaks, canoes or swimmers should be in and around docks built for large vessels.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Mixing 30ft boats and paddle boards (and the like) are bound to cause problems.

Do we allow skate boards on the highway?

I don’t think paddle boards, kayaks, canoes or swimmers should be in and around docks built for large vessels.

Discussion about banning paddle boards around docks aside, clearly there risks for everyone in and around docks, but its quite different for 2 25' boats to bump into each other than a 25' boat bumping into a paddle boarder. That just just frightening to me. Hope I never see it let along be involved in such,,,

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Discussion about banning paddle boards around docks aside, clearly there risks for everyone in and around docks, but its quite different for 2 25' boats to bump into each other than a 25' boat bumping into a paddle boarder. That just just frightening to me. Hope I never see it let along be involved in such,,,

How about an 8' RIB with a 2 HP outboard, or a 10' jon boat with only a trolling motor for propulsion. Should those be allowed around public docks that larger boats use?

Just asking in terms of trying to understand where the limit is that people feel adds risk. My paddle board is 12'6", and I'm over 6' tall. I have a tandem kayak that is 16' long. A 10' jon boat is smaller than either, and similar profile to the kayak. And with a trolling motor is quite a bit less responsive than either of the paddle powered craft.

Listen, I get it that mixed use can add risk. Going across NY Harbor in an 18' runabout with 600 ft. freighters in both directions has potential for bad things to happen. I just have a hard time, after a lifetime of "power boats yield to non-powered boats", accepting the idea that kayaks have to stay away because boats with 600 HP can't maneuver around them without risking their lives.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

How about an 8' RIB with a 2 HP outboard, or a 10' jon boat with only a trolling motor for propulsion. Should those be allowed around public docks that larger boats use?

Just asking in terms of trying to understand where the limit is that people feel adds risk. My paddle board is 12'6", and I'm over 6' tall. I have a tandem kayak that is 16' long. A 10' jon boat is smaller than either, and similar profile to the kayak. And with a trolling motor is quite a bit less responsive than either of the paddle powered craft.

Listen, I get it that mixed use can add risk. Going across NY Harbor in an 18' runabout with 600 ft. freighters in both directions has potential for bad things to happen. I just have a hard time, after a lifetime of "power boats yield to non-powered boats", accepting the idea that kayaks have to stay away because boats with 600 HP can't maneuver around them without risking their lives.

As the operator of paddle board, kayak, or jon boat you tell me???

If I am in a 30' power boat 4' off the water and leaving a dock on one side with just enough throttle to keep control with some wave and some wind, what are your expectations for me to see you AND be able to stop if you are traversing in a direction that will cross my exit path but you are not viable to me because you are to low or hidden behind another boat and I dont see you until you are right in front of me.

In a jon boat you will not be happy by the 2 - 5 MPH collision that will likely occur, but you may not be harmed. In a kayak, you will likely get knocked over, but again at that speed I would not expect serious injury. On a paddle board, I would have great fear you could suffer significant injury.

So assuming conditions such as I describe, where a power boat is leaving a dock at a reasonable speed, but a jon boat operator or a kayaker or a paddle boarder is traversing very close to the end of the dock ready to pass in front of the power boat but is not in any way viable to the power boat operator, how do we prevent a collision?

If I am missing something about this scenario as a boat operator, I welcome any tips anyone is willing to share, BUT I have ZERO interest in hearing its just your responsibility. That will not avoid a collision in the situation I am describing, nor will changing the scenario. This is specific to situations where the paddle board, kayak, or jon boat is NOT visible to the boat operator and will be crossing their path of exit with no advance warning possible.

Doesnt happen often, but it is something no one ever wants to experience.

So how do we prevent it, or not,,,

[MAXUM]

Just a general observation but ya know, there are "crosswalks" painted on the road for a reason. So you don't have individuals running across a busy road or intersection trying to dodge traffic.

I would thing the same sort of logic applies here. Paddleboards have no business being anywhere near areas of boat traffic\congestion. Anyone, especially anyone inexperienced that decides this is a good idea is deserving of a Darwin award.

[chachee52]

Here's a suggestion. People keep talking about boats getting bigger, 30' boats are mentioned. Why don't we go back to old school, the people powered boats (canoes/kayaks) have been part of the lake WAY before big power boats.
SOOOOOO, if you look at it that way, the bigger power boats that "don't have control to have control" should be banned.
Why should the boats that were on the lake from the start of boat transportation on the lake be banned from anywhere on the lake?
Just another way of looking at a crazy idea of what people are saying. Just reverse what you are saying.
And just in case you are wondering, I do captain a 24' bow rider, have multiple kayaks, and a canoe.
Honestly will any of these ideas actually happen, no. But at some point always have to look at other ways of thinking.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Discussion about banning paddle boards around docks aside, clearly there risks for everyone in and around docks, but its quite different for 2 25' boats to bump into each other than a 25' boat bumping into a paddle boarder. That just just frightening to me. Hope I never see it let along be involved in such,,,

Exactly. Or two paddle boarders bumping into each other.

The mix of scale is just asking for trouble in such close quarters and it's the big vessel that will be in big trouble even if the small vessel did something dumb.

[John Mercier]

It doesn't work that way.
Town docks mean that town residents, and business owners, will have the greatest say in what the policy will be.

Since this was private docks, they will determine what the policy will be.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

It doesn't work that way.

Town docks mean that town residents, and business owners, will have the greatest say in what the policy will be.

Since this was private docks, they will determine what the policy will be.

The dock on the right in the image I posted is a public dock.


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

The dock on the right in the image I posted is a public dock.


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I am being informed by the people that should know, that both those docks are owned by Hampshire Hospitality Holdings, a subsidiary of Procaccianti.

Public access, privately owned.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

EKAL was where it happened.
They inhabit that little cover area along with the other operations at Church Landing.

Understood, but the conversation turned to others experiences about launching at the public ramp and the risks of operating paddle boards in that same space as the boats.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

The discussion about moving were they launch was about people launching at the boat ramp, not EKAL.

Some part of the overall discussion was about the risks of all paddle boarders paddling around the boat docks, but not specifically EKAL.

Then why post about bad press for EKAL in post #45?


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[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Then why post about bad press for EKAL in post #45?


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As the incident in question happened when a paddle boarder came into close proximity to a boat dock, an always dangerous place.

So many situations where such an accident could happen where the boat operator would have little ability to prevent it, but that if the paddle board was not operating so closely to the dock it could have been avoided.

Not saying this was one of those situations, but there are conceivable situations where a boater could not see a paddle board in motion but hugging the end of a dock passing in front of a moving boat where the operator will not be able to stop the boat in time. So in those cases and impact is virtually inevitable unless you keep paddle boarders some distance from the docks.

And once there is any accident, ANY accident, it will cause some people to be afraid for renting/using paddle boards and thats truly a shame. It looks like a really reasonable and fun and usually safe activity, but not around active boat docks.

Just a few feet could be a huge difference.

Of as said before remove all the boats, or all the paddle boards, or invent deflector shields, etc ;-)

ATB

[ITD]

Learn how to drive your boat. If you can't handle a 30 foot boat in close quarters with out hitting a paddle boarder and running up on a dock, then you are the problem. This is a boat driver problem, not a paddle board problem.

I have a 27 foot boat, I've had paddle boarders come close to me many times. My boat did not hit the paddle boarder, nor did it end up running up on a dock. Here's a hint, if the thought of this makes you nervous, you need more work and practice on handling your boat. If you think your boat needs to be traveling at a certain speed to be controllable, then you need practice, lots of it.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

Learn how to drive your boat. If you can't handle a 30 foot boat in close quarters with out hitting a paddle boarder and running up on a dock, then you are the problem. This is a boat driver problem, not a paddle board problem.

I have a 27 foot boat, I've had paddle boarders come close to me many times. My boat did not hit the paddle boarder, nor did it end up running up on a dock. Here's a hint, if the thought of this makes you nervous, you need more work and practice on handling your boat. If you think your boat needs to be traveling at a certain speed to be controllable, then you need practice, lots of it.

The world seems to be just brimming full with self-proclaimed perfect human specimens.

I cant wait until the little green men come down and ask to see our role models, I'll know just where to point them for perfect boat operator.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

The world seems to be just brimming full with self-proclaimed perfect human specimens.

I cant wait until the little green men come down and ask to see our role models, I'll know just where to point them for perfect boat operator.

No one is perfect, but if a captain is afraid of people near the boat while underway, that captain is not safe.

I see it all the time when I'm near a dock, people afraid of hitting something, gunning their boat so they won't hit it. An absolutely wrong, but prevalent reaction.... a dangerous reaction.

Seriously, if anyone is afraid or worried about hitting a paddle boarder near their boat, they need some training on how to operate the boat. Give the coast guard auxiliary a call, or a local marina, or someone who knows how to operate a boat to give lessons. It's not that hard, but it just doesn't happen, you need to practice it.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

No one is perfect, but if a captain is afraid of people near the boat while underway, that captain is not safe.

I see it all the time when I'm near a dock, people afraid of hitting something, gunning their boat so they won't hit it. An absolutely wrong, but prevalent reaction.... a dangerous reaction.

Seriously, if anyone is afraid or worried about hitting a paddle boarder near their boat, they need some training on how to operate the boat. Give the coast guard auxiliary a call, or a local marina, or someone who knows how to operate a boat to give lessons. It's not that hard, but it just doesn't happen, you need to practice it.

Totally ridiculous statements, no point in responding, I simply hope you never find yourself in "that" position.

ATB

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by ITD

No one is perfect, but if a captain is afraid of people near the boat while underway, that captain is not safe.

I see it all the time when I'm near a dock, people afraid of hitting something, gunning their boat so they won't hit it. An absolutely wrong, but prevalent reaction.... a dangerous reaction.

Seriously, if anyone is afraid or worried about hitting a paddle boarder near their boat, they need some training on how to operate the boat. Give the coast guard auxiliary a call, or a local marina, or someone who knows how to operate a boat to give lessons. It's not that hard, but it just doesn't happen, you need to practice it.

I do like this. Just like driving a car. The ones that are afraid of driving are the ones that are usually in situation that might cause a car accident.
The Boating license in NH gives NO training on how to actually operate a boat. I remember a guy that insisted he knew how to operate his boat, he took the old Burger King docks out twice!! He always blamed the waves moving the dock.

[winniwannabe]

[XCR-700]

Sorry ANYONE who operates any powerful motorized vehicle and says they have no fear of running over a paddle boarder/bicyclist/pedestrian/ect should not be behind the wheel. Operating boats and cars on public roads and waterways is not NASCAR you need to keep a healthy dose of concern front an center. There is no place for arrogant operators that believe they can do no wrong. This is just foolish and irresponsible soapbox grandstanding.

Its no wonder we dont have far more accidents with attitudes like that.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Sorry ANYONE who operates any powerful motorized vehicle and says they have no fear of running over a paddle boarder/bicyclist/pedestrian/ect should not be behind the wheel. Operating boats and cars on public roads and waterways is not NASCAR you need to keep a healthy dose of concern front an center. There is no place for arrogant operators that believe they can do no wrong. This is just foolish and irresponsible soapbox grandstanding.

Its no wonder we dont have far more accidents with attitudes like that.

You've twisted my words. I don't worry about about a paddle boarder near my boat because if I am close enough and in a position to run a boarder over I am fully stopped until they move on.

If I'm in a spot where I can't see what is around the corner, I'm barely moving until I can see and I can stop if a paddle boarder pops out from behind some mythical object he was hiding behind.

Paddle boarders do not appear out of nowhere. They are easy to see. They move slowly. I pay attention while my boat is moving, it's that simple. But beyond that, I understand that the boat does not need to be moving a certain speed to be under control. I can hold the boat in one place if I need to. Even if.... gasp... it is breezy or there is a current. If it is real windy I'm very careful in tight spots and near people. If it is so windy I can't hold the boat in one spot, I stay home, which is very rare.

You want to ban people from enjoying themselves because you are afraid of your boat. The last thing this lady wanted to do was run someone over and run her boat up on a dock. But she did, she didn't know what she was doing. She was afraid of her boat, she thought she needed to be moving a certain speed to control it, and she reacted badly by adding so much power to avoid the boarder that she ran her over AND ran her boat up on a dock.

I never move near things any faster than I would want to hit that thing. This means very slowly, and near people (swimmers, boarders, canoes, paddle boats, kayaks), either very slowly, or not at all until the person moves far enough away and it is safe to move again.

Your problem is that you think you need to attain some magic speed before your boat is controllable. That is not true, if you can't "nudge" your boat in a direction, or hold your boat stationary in a breeze, then you need to find someone to show you how to do so. You are the problem, not me.

The danger is not a random paddle boarder near a dock for a few minutes, the danger is boaters who do not know how to drive their boats. If you are in fear, or worried about driving your boat or operating your boat in close quarters, find someone to help you learn, read a book on how to handle a boat and get out and practice.

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Sorry ANYONE who operates any powerful motorized vehicle and says they have no fear of running over a paddle boarder/bicyclist/pedestrian/ect should not be behind the wheel. Operating boats and cars on public roads and waterways is not NASCAR you need to keep a healthy dose of concern front an center. There is no place for arrogant operators that believe they can do no wrong. This is just foolish and irresponsible soapbox grandstanding.

Its no wonder we dont have far more accidents with attitudes like that.

I agree with this as well. I was just going by people using the word fear. Either way. There are always multiple sides of looking at things. I always find that people have to look at both sides.
I am a type of person that will usually bring the second side of things to look at. So I believe in everything that wrote about banning 30' boats? no, but there is no way Paddlers should also be banned.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

The world seems to be just brimming full with self-proclaimed perfect human specimens.

I cant wait until the little green men come down and ask to see our role models, I'll know just where to point them for perfect boat operator.

Whoa--he has simply underlined that a captain is responsible for his craft. This is fundamental to boats...cars...guns (as you point out on the other thread re: "responsible")

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Whoa--he has simply underlined that a captain is responsible for his craft. This is fundamental to boats...cars...guns (as you point out on the other thread re: "responsible")

There is no such thing as 100% responsible for operation of a boat, gun, car.

CRAZY things happen all the time that are beyond the reasonable limits of the operators control.

People constantly ignore dont walk signs and step out in front of cars that are properly moving and will not be able stop and so pedestrians get hit all the time, NOT the car operators fault.

Someone was recently shot while screwing around and not where they were supposed to be at the end of a rifle range when it was actively being used and got hit by a ricochet, NOT the fault of the shooter.

A novice or day renter kayaker/paddle boarder who does something they should not do like cutting in front of a moving boat exiting a dock by hugging the end of the dock and ends up harmed by another boater, has created a situation you cannot blame the boater for. If you have me on that jury you are going to find me stuck on not responsible to be able to prevent such an accident.

In cases where someone has been injured and was doing something common sense says in dangerous and created the situation, I will not point the finger of blame at the party that under other circumstances is normally the responsible individual.

If you sit on the same jury with me, you can vote however you like and it will deadlock if necessary. Such is life.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

There is no such thing as 100% responsible for operation of a boat, gun, car.

We can all run out of luck at some point, but don't cloud the issue with extreme cases like "100%". There have been several deaths on the lake over the past several years, I'm pretty sure there was pilot error, including taking too much risk, in each. (correct me if I'm wrong)

If you are not prepared to accept responsibility for something that can be lethal; don't captain a boat, drive a car, or buy a gun.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

We can all run out of luck at some point, but don't cloud the issue with extreme cases like "100%". There have been several deaths on the lake over the past several years, I'm pretty sure there was pilot error, including taking too much risk, in each. (correct me if I'm wrong)

I agree with you that in some of the cases there probably were clear problems with operator error, and in other cases no not "at fault" ;-)

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

If you are not prepared to accept responsibility for something that can be lethal; don't captain a boat, drive a car, or buy a gun.

And absolutely not if you were not in the wrong. Just because you were the operator you are not always responsible. Each case MUST be evaluated honestly and a determination what happened an who caused it. And when no clear cause can be determined you cannot place blame. Its a cornerstone of our faith in the American legal system; "innocent until proven guilt" NOT guilty until proven innocent. Its that reverse logic you are applying that too often costs innocent people everything they own to prove their innocence.

We must be responsible for "OUR" actions, we are not just responsible because we were there or just because we were the operator. Does anyone remember all the cars where the throttle accelerated the car or would not release (Audi - Toyota - etc) or the Firestone tires that exploded??? These drivers were NOT at fault for a failure their cars and tires got recalled over after several serious events.

Personal responsibility for personal actions, not for things beyond your control. Thats a game for ambulance chasing lawyers looking for cash.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by ITD

Learn how to drive your boat. If you can't handle a 30 foot boat in close quarters with out hitting a paddle boarder and running up on a dock, then you are the problem. This is a boat driver problem, not a paddle board problem.

OK so when I am driving down the road and somebody not looking steps out in front of me and I plow them over it is my fault?

Paddle boards are fundamentally unstable platforms - even more so with rookie users on them. You can be very careful around them but in the end you have no idea if, when, or what direction they could go or operator fall into the water. Unlike a car, a boat ain't got brakes either so to any captain even a seasoned one, a quick over reaction to an unexpected set of circumstances could cause even more havok in a domino effect (think chain reaction car crash).

Now compound that with a rookie boat captain and the situation is that much worse. You'd think this is common sense but apparently not.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

OK so when I am driving down the road and somebody not looking steps out in front of me and I plow them over it is my fault?

Paddle boards are fundamentally unstable platforms - even more so with rookie users on them. You can be very careful around them but in the end you have no idea if, when, or what direction they could go or operator fall into the water. Unlike a car, a boat ain't got brakes either so to any captain even a seasoned one, a quick over reaction to an unexpected set of circumstances could cause even more havok in a domino effect (think chain reaction car crash).

Now compound that with a rookie boat captain and the situation is that much worse. You'd think this is common sense but apparently not.

Look, this was a paddle board, near a dock, and a lady who lost her wits, ran over the boarder and ended up on top of a dock.

The car equivalent would be a shopper walking out of Walmart and you running him over. You would be responsible because you were going too fast to stop in time, or you were distracted where you should have been paying attention. Or maybe you hit the gas when you wanted to hit the brakes, still your fault.

Boats can stop, the key is to be at a reasonable speed for the situation. Going any faster than a very slow walking speed in close to a dock is asking for trouble.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Paddle boards are fundamentally unstable platforms - even more so with rookie users on them. You can be very careful around them but in the end you have no idea if, when, or what direction they could go or operator fall into the water.

Definitely a valid point.

[thinkxingu]

Call me old school, crazy, whatever, but kayaks, canoes, paddleboards, etc. should take MORE care than larger vessels. This doesn't mean that operators of larger vessels are off the hook in any way from paying attention, but the possibility of extreme damage on zero-protection toys requires more proactive safety decisions.

This approach kept me and my cycling riding group safe(r) for thousands of miles over the years, as the routes, times, and behaviors were chosen carefully to minimize potential damage from automobile driving mistakes, etc.

For this reason, other than launching/retrieving, I wouldn't be anywhere near public docks, crossing busy areas, paddling at night, etc.

Anyone have the Instagram video yet?!

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