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Old 01-23-2019, 07:03 AM   #101
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Default New Story in the Laconia Sun

There is a new story about rentals though it does not shed much new light on the subject.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...58fe3951a.html
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Old 01-23-2019, 07:45 AM   #102
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Default

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There is a new story about rentals though it does not shed much new light on the subject.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...58fe3951a.html
Interesting to see Rusty’s perspective and numbers he presented.


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Old 01-23-2019, 08:25 AM   #103
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Default South Down/Long Bay Position

We received Long Bay's official position on short term rentals --

"Since the City Zoning Laws ban short term rentals in Long Bay, our Board has concluded that there are no additional considerations for Rules & Regulations needed at this time to address this subject. Simply stated, short term rentals are against the law in Long Bay, and anyone that continues to rent their home for less than 185 days are subject to City Laws that involve stiff fines."

I am pleased that our Board decided to follow the law. This is good news for our community.
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Old 01-23-2019, 08:56 AM   #104
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We received Long Bay's official position on short term rentals --

"Since the City Zoning Laws ban short term rentals in Long Bay, our Board has concluded that there are no additional considerations for Rules & Regulations needed at this time to address this subject. Simply stated, short term rentals are against the law in Long Bay, and anyone that continues to rent their home for less than 185 days are subject to City Laws that involve stiff fines."

I am pleased that our Board decided to follow the law. This is good news for our community.


I disagree with the law and LB. As I have stated my neighbor in LB rented weekly for years and never had an issue and I think short term rentals are good for the community and the economy. Big note as long as they follow the the rules at LBHOA and any other city ordinances.


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Old 01-23-2019, 09:11 AM   #105
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Default Sd/lb

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I disagree with the law and LB. As I have stated my neighbor in LB rented weekly for years and never had an issue and I think short term rentals are good for the community and the economy. Big note as long as they follow the the rules at LBHOA and any other city ordinances.


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As the great Sy Robertson said, "we can disagree to disagree!" I'm not sure how often you used the beach, but you can definitely identify the renters from the owners. Most times it's not an issue, but sometimes it is. I'd rather not deal with it at all.
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Old 01-23-2019, 09:20 AM   #106
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As the great Sy Robertson said, "we can disagree to disagree!" I'm not sure how often you used the beach, but you can definitely identify the renters from the owners. Most times it's not an issue, but sometimes it is. I'd rather not deal with it at all.
I used both the beach and the pool every visit in season and yes you can tell the renters and relatives staying for "free" but I never experienced any issues and I was in Long Bay for 10 years.

I understand and respect your position.
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:11 PM   #107
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Post Kicking the can down the road

The issue is that city ordinance over arches any association rules. As such, the city ordinances take priority. Both SD and LB are essentially deferring to the city for any enforcement (of city ordinance). LB is restating the city ordinance and it is probably a stronger position than in the past. However, the city has indicated that enforcement is based upon complaints only.

The issue for associations such as SD and LB is that when a property is rented, the owner is not around to deal with issues. All problems become the responsibility of the board and property manager. Essentially, the community bears the cost of the rental and the individual reaps the benefit.

Some renters are terrific, but others feel that they can do whatever they want as they have paid for their vacation. It is a difficult situation as some homeowners do rely on rental income.


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Old 01-24-2019, 06:16 AM   #108
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Default Laconia ZBA Rejects Rental Request

From the Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...5975c80d6.html
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Old 01-24-2019, 06:29 AM   #109
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The issue is that city ordinance over arches any association rules. As such, the city ordinances take priority. Both SD and LB are essentially deferring to the city for any enforcement (of city ordinance). LB is restating the city ordinance and it is probably a stronger position than in the past. However, the city has indicated that enforcement is based upon complaints only.



The issue for associations such as SD and LB is that when a property is rented, the owner is not around to deal with issues. All problems become the responsibility of the board and property manager. Essentially, the community bears the cost of the rental and the individual reaps the benefit.



Some renters are terrific, but others feel that they can do whatever they want as they have paid for their vacation. It is a difficult situation as some homeowners do rely on rental income.





Jetskier


I absolutely agree that all city ordnanceís and law supersede rules and regulations-of any HOA and that is the way it should be. I do not agree that the HOA bares any of the cost of renters and the problems do ultimately fall on the owner not the HOA. There are plenty of rules in place in LB and the sub HOAs in LB so if a tenant had a situation where there was any cost and been paid by the HOA the owner would have to reimburse the said costs. But as I have said in 10 years as a board members of an LB sub HOA we had renters and never had this situation.




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Old 01-24-2019, 08:36 AM   #110
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Ultimately.... the signal from Laconia (and probably most other towns) is pretty clear. You can fly under the radar and we don't care. If you pop up on our radar due to a complaint, the party is over.

What I would like to see is what the ZBA does in an area like the Weirs, as it is zoned CR not residential.


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Old 01-24-2019, 08:55 AM   #111
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https://www.laconianh.gov/255/Zoning-Maps : Click on the zoning map link at the top, and it shows bright yellow for the Weirs Beach residential waterfront area just to the north of The Pier, as well as to the south of the weirs channel.

Isn't the yellow for shore front residential, and the red is for commercial, so's most of the Weirs single family homes could have their Air-bnb shut down with a nosy neighbor's single phone call complaint about short term renters making too much whoopie or something?

Hellooooooo Laconia-911 ....... this is nosy neighbors John & Jane Doe over at 123 Serenity Ave ..... and the short term renters next door are way out of control ...... they are simply having tooooo much fun .....and we cannot stand it ...... any more ........ puh-lease ...... what can we do here?

.............. ......
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:54 AM   #112
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Post Self limiting situation

Hi Joey2665,

Some years back I was in the Gables and renters completely trashed the pool area (broken glass on the deck, smashed the chairs etc...). The home owner did not deal with the issue. Just an example.

There are great renters and poor renters. Some homeowners are great about vetting their renters and others are not. The other problem is many renters just don't know the rules or (in some cases, care). We have had renters show up to the beach with floatation devices that you can land an air craft carrier on...small beach, not cool.

When there are issues or complaints, it ends up in a call to security, the management company or the board. I know that there are a lot of homeowners in LB very much against rentals because of issues and this has been a discussion at the board level. The other complexity is that it is extremely hard to know who should be in the community and who should not. This makes it difficult for security etc...

As I previously said, at some level the motivation of people renting and those owning in communities like LB and SD become at odds. There are only so many nice summer days to enjoy.

So, the way it stands now if someone is going to rent it is their responsibility to make sure that their renters don't cause an issue that is going to cause someone to complain to the city. The city is the only enforcement entity in this regard. So, this becomes a self correcting situation.

Just my 2 cents.
Bruce




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Old 01-25-2019, 09:00 AM   #113
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Default I've got an idea

Instead of short term rentals, maybe the owners should open boarding houses. Interesting articles in the Daily Sun.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...b33670d60.html

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...c0cb8e394.html

In all seriousness, as taxpayers, why are we investing in downtown Laconia when these types of "investments" are being encouraged by our City leaders and our media? The City is desperate for growth, and has encouraged Section 8 housing, drug rehab centers, and now boarding houses. This is okay, but why are we even considering investing in downtown, like the Colonial Theater or the WOW Trail?
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Old 01-27-2019, 02:33 PM   #114
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I have to pay my taxes. They can pay theirs. In this case though, it's the renters who are supposed to pay and the home-owner is simply a collecting agent.
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Old 01-27-2019, 04:34 PM   #115
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Maybe take down the weed flag for 5 minutes while you get your picture taken for the newspaper?

That picture does not advance their cause.




https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...c0cb8e394.html
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:01 PM   #116
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Post Latest and greatest from the city of Laconia

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...72f509f7c.html
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:40 AM   #117
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All of this attention because of an insignificant number of complaints.

The officials are once again talking about more regulation and expense to both the homeowner and the city. They suggest fire inspections and a local party to call if there is a parking or noise violation. Don't those parking and noise laws already exist? Isn't the police department capable of handling a noise or parking complaint?

We don't need more regulation in the "Live Free or Die" state.
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:53 AM   #118
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All of this attention because of an insignificant number of complaints.



The officials are once again talking about more regulation and expense to both the homeowner and the city. They suggest fire inspections and a local party to call if there is a parking or noise violation. Don't those parking and noise laws already exist? Isn't the police department capable of handling a noise or parking complaint?



We don't need more regulation in the "Live Free or Die" state.


Tilton is correct. We do not need more regulations the system is in place. In my experience I find long term renters in the area have caused more damage and more issues than the short term renters who tend to be more family oriented and there to enjoy the region.

Also isnít this an opportunity for the state to charge short term renters the occupancy tax that hotel/motel patrons pay, which means more revenue? I also do not think this will have a great effect on the local hotels and motels as short term renters like to have the efficiencies of a home with full kitchen amenities and privacy which in turn means more visitors and more revenue for businesses and the government


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Old 01-31-2019, 07:06 PM   #119
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Default Couldn't agree more with the comments above!

Spot on. A very high percentage of the short term rentals in the area are managed and run the right way. For folks who are responsible and vet their renters thoroughly, they should be allowed to continue renting their property. Good for them - they've invested in Laconia real estate and are bringing business into the area...and Laconia definitely needs it! Most guests are families, in many cases, multi-generational, who are looking to rent a home and have all the amenities of home on their family vacation - not a stay at an old/dated and crowded hotel in the summer. Hotel options are very limited. If however, there are repeat offenders who rent their homes out as 'party homes', or allow 20 people to stay in a 2 bedroom home causing parking, noise and trash issues for the neighborhood then there should be a way for the town to step in and impose a heavy fine. I'm really just not a fan of the current stance which seems to be one complaint equals a ban from renting. Seems a bit heavy handed and "un-New Hampshire -like". Final point - what does the mandatory inspection process accomplish? Not sure that solves for noise, trash and parking issues.
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:24 AM   #120
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Default Complain to the City Council

The Laconia Daily Sun:

Marc Burrell complained to the City Council last week about any efforts to regulate short-term Airbnb-type rentals:

ďIf you start regulating people and start wanting to charge to come in and inspect my house, Iím just going to stop doing it. If I feel that way, how many other people feel that way? This is a tourist town. Itís always had rentals. Now with the age of the Internet, people from all over the world come here. To start regulating it because of one or two people, you are just going to lose it. It brings a lot of revenue into this town.Ē
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:45 AM   #121
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AirBnb & VRBO are great business ideas... they just need to abide by the same rules as everyone else.

Operate in the proper zone... pay the room & meals tax... pay the income tax...

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Old 02-19-2019, 10:49 AM   #122
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AirBnb & VRBO are great business ideas... they just need to abide by the same rules as everyone else.

Operate in the proper zone... pay the room & meals tax... pay the income tax...

Woodsy
Best quote ever!! Love it that just because we have the internet everyone should be able to do what they want. Kinda like the same deal with Uber and Lyft, for years taxi companies have had to pay $$$ for the right to do business (esp at airports) and now anyone can do it without the regs? Was always don't meet strangers from the internet, it's not safe, never get into a strangers car, it's not safe...now just call from an APP and get into a car with a stranger!!
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:12 PM   #123
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Best quote ever!! Love it that just because we have the internet everyone should be able to do what they want. Kinda like the same deal with Uber and Lyft, for years taxi companies have had to pay $$$ for the right to do business (esp at airports) and now anyone can do it without the regs? Was always don't meet strangers from the internet, it's not safe, never get into a strangers car, it's not safe...now just call from an APP and get into a car with a stranger!!
I'm not sure a taxi is any safer. Bottom line, always be aware of your surroundings.
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:19 PM   #124
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Interesting take. NYC is def hostile to AirBnb....... Kind of takes the "tourist area" out of the argument.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/19/tech/...ity/index.html

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Old 03-13-2019, 06:51 AM   #125
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The Laconia Sun has an article with the Mayor's idea of someone needing the approval of neighbors before they can rent out their house.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...3484b125f.html

The City's thought process fails to take into account the financial contribution of short term visitors. From shopping and dining to boat rentals there is a lot of money spent in the area. And, many of those visitors enjoy the area enough that they come back year after year and some even move here and buy a house.

I have a rental house on the lake and about 50% of the summer is taken every year by repeat visitors. I live next door and I notice how often they go shopping and come back with bags of groceries, clothing, or water toys for their kids. Many times they tell me about local restaurants they have found. Their shopping and spending helps keep local businesses going and local people working.

I have one neighbor who complains about everything, and it has nothing to do with renting or tenants. The people I bought that house from many years ago also had years of problems with the same neighbor and they never rented the house. I would hate to think that one person with a bad attitude could determine whether the renting could continue.

The city is making a big deal about isolated problems. We have noise regulations, parking regulations, and many other laws that help to enable people to live peacefully. If there are violations of current laws then address those violations. We don't need more rules and regulations and we don't need government increasing their reach into our lives.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:24 AM   #126
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So will the neighbor that rejects a rental have to be identified? Appears to open up a case of harassment


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Old 03-13-2019, 08:31 AM   #127
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The Laconia Sun has an article with the Mayor's idea of someone needing the approval of neighbors before they can rent out their house.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...3484b125f.html

The City's thought process fails to take into account the financial contribution of short term visitors. From shopping and dining to boat rentals there is a lot of money spent in the area. And, many of those visitors enjoy the area enough that they come back year after year and some even move here and buy a house.

I have a rental house on the lake and about 50% of the summer is taken every year by repeat visitors. I live next door and I notice how often they go shopping and come back with bags of groceries, clothing, or water toys for their kids. Many times they tell me about local restaurants they have found. Their shopping and spending helps keep local businesses going and local people working.

I have one neighbor who complains about everything, and it has nothing to do with renting or tenants. The people I bought that house from many years ago also had years of problems with the same neighbor and they never rented the house. I would hate to think that one person with a bad attitude could determine whether the renting could continue.

The city is making a big deal about isolated problems. We have noise regulations, parking regulations, and many other laws that help to enable people to live peacefully. If there are violations of current laws then address those violations. We don't need more rules and regulations and we don't need government increasing their reach into our lives.
There always one grumpy old man that hates everyone and everything in a neighborhood. We also have one in ours. I was warned ahead of time. I'm new to my neighborhood, 5 years now, and I've already caught his attention. Some people are just born to be miserable.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:52 AM   #128
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Agree, however, they also have the right to enjoy their space without being harassed by others. In my opinion If the city decides to identify these individuals they are making a mistake by putting neighbors vs neighbors


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Old 03-13-2019, 03:43 PM   #129
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Iíve totally forgotten what itís like to ďlive freeĒ in NH in this last decade..
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:32 AM   #130
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Iíve totally forgotten what itís like to ďlive freeĒ in NH in this last decade..
There is no such thing as "live free", never has been.
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:00 AM   #131
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Unfortunately, Biggd, you are right!!
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:05 AM   #132
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Unfortunately, Biggd, you are right!!
If you are getting something for free it may be free to you but it's being paid for by someone else.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:58 AM   #133
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LOL, Bigg, you are right! But I think in this case, he is talking about FREEDOM not free things. As in the freedom to do what you want with your own property... WE don't own our property anymore. If we ever did.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:44 AM   #134
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LOL, Bigg, you are right! But I think in this case, he is talking about FREEDOM not free things. As in the freedom to do what you want with your own property... WE don't own our property anymore. If we ever did.
We are all free to live in the USA as long as we pay all our bills. Even when you die someone has to pay the tab that you left behind!
Of course, if you don't pay your bills you go to jail and get free room and board. Then the rest of us have to pay the tab. Someone always pays, that's FREEDOM!
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:53 AM   #135
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Yep and in this case if you want to rent your property out you might or might not be able to!!!
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:56 AM   #136
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Oh you can rent it out....Until one person complains and yes they can do this anonymously and then you get a letter from Laconia saying to to cease and desist all rentals or you will be charged $250.00 per day. Actually not bad if your getting $10k a week! Then you can apply to go in front of the zoning board but good luck with them as they have shown there is no way to show a hardship for them to allow a rezoning. Its only a matter of time before someone with deep pockets hires the right attorney and finds a loophole to make this work. As far as state and local room taxes yes these should and need to be in forced. But now who is cheeking the home for safety items, bed bugs and everything else that hotel and motels get checked for?
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:27 PM   #137
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I have no problem with short term rentals in places like the Weirs, where families have rented out their properties 2-3 weeks a year to help pay the taxes. it is 1-2 weeks a year and has been going on forever...

But....

The AirBNB/VRBO model is a business model. People (sorry TiltonBB) should not be buying houses in residential areas and running them like unlicensed no tell motels. This has a very adverse effect on the neighborhood... higher rents as commercial landlords take long-term housing off the market to cash in on more lucrative short-term rental opportunities, loss of revenue for legitimate, regulated hotels/motels. Loss of tax income (both room & meals & business) for the state & city etc etc....

The the AirBnb/VRBO landlords cite existing laws regarding noise, parking etc as adequate protection for neighborhood. But we also have existing laws regulating short term rentals on the books... that is the law that the AirBNB/VRBO folks want to forget exists. This law is just as important as the noise & parking ordinances and also exists to protect the neighborhood.

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Old 03-14-2019, 12:59 PM   #138
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Woodsy: No apology necessary, we can still be friends!

The problem with leaving most of it to the hotels and motels is that may not be the type of place families are looking for. Many families want the home experience from the kids sleeping in their "own" bedrooms to grilling and family dinners at the kitchen table.

In some situations, the atmosphere from a shared beach at a motel may not be what a family is looking for and by afternoon, with a lot of alcohol involved, it may present an unhealthy situation for children.

Many families get together and rent a home that will fit all of them and it would be cost prohibitive, and not provide the family experience they are looking for, at a motel. They can rent a house that sleeps the whole family for less than the cost of several motel rooms.

The contention that it has a very adverse effect on the neighborhood has not been my experience. On my street alone I am aware of several summer weekly rentals. Both from the street, and from the water, you would have no idea the property was not occupied by the owners.

I know of three local agencies that together rent over 300 waterfront homes as weekly rentals. I have used them. They take a commission and collect and pay the rooms and meals tax to the state.

One physician that rented my home called me after his vacation. It was his family's first time on the lake and they liked it so much they asked for a realtor recommendation to help them find a house. They bought a waterfront in Meredith.

We have all probably had difficult and noisy neighbors at one time or another. You have a good chance of having a neighbor whose conduct and noise you don't approve of. You have to live with it or make complaints to whatever local authority has jurisdiction and that neighbor may be there 52 weeks a year. In the event someone in your neighborhood rents to a problem tenant, they are gone in a week.

My situation may be different but I do not use AirBnB or similar sites, and I will not rent to anyone that I have not talked to first.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:52 PM   #139
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Woodsy: No apology necessary, we can still be friends!

The problem with leaving most of it to the hotels and motels is that may not be the type of place families are looking for. Many families want the home experience from the kids sleeping in their "own" bedrooms to grilling and family dinners at the kitchen table.

In some situations, the atmosphere from a shared beach at a motel may not be what a family is looking for and by afternoon, with a lot of alcohol involved, it may present an unhealthy situation for children.

Many families get together and rent a home that will fit all of them and it would be cost prohibitive, and not provide the family experience they are looking for, at a motel. They can rent a house that sleeps the whole family for less than the cost of several motel rooms.

The contention that it has a very adverse effect on the neighborhood has not been my experience. On my street alone I am aware of several summer weekly rentals. Both from the street, and from the water, you would have no idea the property was not occupied by the owners.

I know of three local agencies that together rent over 300 waterfront homes as weekly rentals. I have used them. They take a commission and collect and pay the rooms and meals tax to the state.

One physician that rented my home called me after his vacation. It was his family's first time on the lake and they liked it so much they asked for a realtor recommendation to help them find a house. They bought a waterfront in Meredith.

We have all probably had difficult and noisy neighbors at one time or another. You have a good chance of having a neighbor whose conduct and noise you don't approve of. You have to live with it or make complaints to whatever local authority has jurisdiction and that neighbor may be there 52 weeks a year. In the event someone in your neighborhood rents to a problem tenant, they are gone in a week.

My situation may be different but I do not use AirBnB or similar sites, and I will not rent to anyone that I have not talked to first.
I have both rented my vacation home, in the past, and rented vacation homes in several different parts of the country over the years, that said if I was asked to vote on it at a town meeting, I'd vote it down for residential neighborhoods. Just my $.02.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:36 PM   #140
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Looks like they are cracking down on rental homes in Laconia.
There are many arguments to this debate. You have to look at some of the old/new assumptions:

1. Zoning. Zoning was established to assure that reasonably compatible land uses were/are located in contiguous geographic locations. As an extreme example, the goal was to avoid having a commercial junk yard located next to a permanent single family residence. As zoning evolved, the land uses were further segregated, such that uses akin to apartment buildings, or resort buildings, were/are not allowed next to single family residences.

2. Single Family Zoning. Many years ago, most communities developed a zone (or zones) that allow for "single family residential" zoning. Historically, the properties in these zones were utilized as "single family - owner occupied", or less commonly, "single family - monthly/yearly lease". Prior to such technology as AirBNB, it was rare that a property in a single family zoning district would be rented on a short term weekly or daily basis.

3. Zoning Purpose. The purpose of zoning was to allow property owners to purchase property in a location where they could have a reasonable expectation as to the neighboring uses. Very few people would want to establish permanent residency next to a junkyard. Zoning is a mechanism that allows a property buyer a reasonable expectation as to what sort of neighboring use they might expect. (Remember, nobody can pick their neighbor!)

4. Zoning Argument. At one extreme, there is, and always will be, a % of the population that will argue that their individual property rights should not be encumbered by zoning. That said, most people have a fundamental belief in zoning, even if they don't believe in the specific zoning ordinances that might encumber their own property.

5. Current Technology. The advent of websites such as AirBnB allows for the relatively simple marketing/purchasing of short term (weekly/daily) rentals in areas that previously saw few, if any, short term rentals. In some instances, these short term rentals are occurring in "single family" zoning districts that have not seen any short term rental (and little long term rental) use in years past.

6. A "Neighborhood" Perspective. People that live in most residentially zoned neighborhoods look at it from the perspective of their own personal home. Most of us (not all of us) live in an area that has, historically, been occupied by long term owners, or long term rentals. Most people are not accustomed to having their neighbors change on a weekly basis. For many people, the stability of neighboring properties allows for a certain degree of presumptive quiet enjoyment.

7. A "Property/Investment" Perspective. In the last couple of years, people are purchasing what has has historically been owner occupied property with a full/partial financial objective. The goal is to recognize a certain return on investment, through short term rental.

8. The Conundrum. A small, but rising, percentage of historically permanent residences in single family zones are being rented/occupied on a shorter term basis. If you buy your dream home in a "single family" zone, should you expect that your neighboring property might be rented to ever changing owners on a weekly/weekend basis? Conversely, if you buy a property in a single family zoned district, that does not have an zoning established minimum rental period, should you be limited in your financial right to rent the property on a short term basis?

There is no perfect answer to the conundrum, but I believe the City of Laconia is going to have a contend with a difficult task. The "it's only a problem if we hear a problem" approach is not going to work. There are too many personalities at stake to fairly implement this interpretation to the current zoning ordinance.

I am of the opinion that Laconia (and every other City with resort type appeal) is going to have to take a harder look at their ordinances, and set definitive allowable rental periods in the various zones. They may even need to expand their zones, allowing for the fact that certain "single family" neighborhoods (ie, Paugus Park .... with tight density single family waterfront) have been more prone to short term rentals in the past, and therefore may be more appropriate for short term rentals in the future. Conversely, I think that there should be other single family residential areas with tight restrictions on short term rentals, such that those buyers seeking a more stable occupied neighborhood, can buy in such a neighborhood, without the expectation that an adjacent home might be operated on a more commercial, short term basis.

Note that I know there are exceptions to every rule. I am certain that there are well intentioned/proactive owners of AirBnB type residences that can/will assure that their renters will be good neighbors. That said, there are those owners that will not be so proactive, and will create the occasional nuisance to the adjacent permanent residences.

The bottom line is that zoning can't regulate the people/personalities, they can only regulate the use. Communities are going to have to come to grips with the fact that they need to further define their use regulations, allowing for all of the economic and quiet enjoyment variables that go along with zoning ordinances.

My hope is that the officials will see fit to find a way to amend the ordinances, such that they allow some degree of economic benefit from the AirBnB type phenomenon, coupled with a strong commitment to creating stable quiet neighborhoods for long term residents.

No matter what they do, they are going to irritate a lot of people. They just need to look at it with a practical eye, and make the best possible business/political decision for the community.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:58 AM   #141
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I understand both sides of this debate. I know many young people in the investment business that buy homes all around the country just to rent out. To these people it's just an investment. All they care about is ROI at the end of the year. These are the kind of neighbors you don't want.

I have an acquaintance that rents a large waterfront home on Winni every year with 2 other families with teen age children. They have to rent something big because there is usually about 12 to 15 people staying there and at times they could have as many as 25. They pay big bucks, around 10K a week, and they are usually asked not to come back because of neighbor complaints. But they still seem to find a new place to rent every year. He told me there are quite a few places on the water that have been bought by groups of investers just looking to rent out.
This is the sad part of property value appreciation. You have a lot of people that are buying just as an investment. There is no pride of ownership with these purchases.

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Old 03-15-2019, 07:18 AM   #142
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There are also companies like Inspirato that own luxury homes all over the world and rent them out. It requires a membership in Inspirato. I know someone who rented a house on Nantucket last summer and a week was $56,000. Not in my world!

https://www.inspirato.com/

I know every situation is different. I live next door to my rental house so if there are unruly or problem tenants I know right away. Since 2003 I have only had two groups that I would not rent to again because of their conduct. And, as soon as I knew it was a problem I was there addressing it. I know not every rental house situation is like that.

One thing that does filter out the problem tenants is the price of admission. It is not cheap to rent a house on the lake. I have had rental property (mostly not on the lake) since 1978 and my experience is that the higher the rent, the better caliber of the tenant.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:10 AM   #143
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Default Just a few passing thoughts

If the current Laconia laws prohibit short term rentals in areas zoned residential then one would assume that only "residential" uses are permitted in those areas.

1. If you store your boat on a trailer on your property I would assume that it is permissible in a residential zone. What about when a couple of people leave their boats on trailers at your house for the off season and pay you a few dollars. I would assume that makes it a commercial use of the property. Is that a violation and will the city enforce it?

2. If you have extra dock space at your house and you rent a slip or two to people you found on Craigslist will DES call that a marina? Does DES have any zoning laws? My understanding is the Laconia regulations, and all of the town regulations around the lake, only apply to the shoreline and anything on the water is up to the state.

3. If it is not permissible for private parties to rent out boat slips at the homes that they own in residential areas how does that impact the weekly renters who bring boats to the property that they rented and use the docks at that property?

So many questions. I wish I was smarter!
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:07 AM   #144
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This is an issue all over the country and the rest of the lakes/mountains in NH. With all of Laconia's issues and they have a lot. Also the fact Laconia never seems to get anything right. Why are they trying to lead? No city has really come up with a good solution for this, Laconia should try and keep there head down so to speak. There is no way they are going to come up with the perfect solution that every city in the world is looking for, they are just going to either piss off a lot of people and/or devalue a bunch of properties. They are making the issue bigger than it is IMHO and should have just stayed out of the debate.

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Old 03-18-2019, 11:54 AM   #145
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I have both rented my vacation home, in the past, and rented vacation homes in several different parts of the country over the years, that said if I was asked to vote on it at a town meeting, I'd vote it down for residential neighborhoods. Just my $.02.
There's another angle to this excellent discussion I would like to bring up.

I live all year round in a lakeside development. I have small children and I am as sensitive as anyone to neighbor quality.

I have never experienced an issue with short-term summer renters of my neighbors' properties. Maybe I've been lucky, maybe the $$ barrier helps with tenant quality.

On the other hand, rental of these properties for September-May (off season) tenancies has caused problems, some of them big problems, at least half the time. Maybe you get a teacher who is trying out the job and the area, but maybe you get small-time or not-so-small time drug operations or other noxious and potentially dangerous activities.
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:59 PM   #146
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If the current Laconia laws prohibit short term rentals in areas zoned residential then one would assume that only "residential" uses are permitted in those areas.

1. If you store your boat on a trailer on your property I would assume that it is permissible in a residential zone. What about when a couple of people leave their boats on trailers at your house for the off season and pay you a few dollars. I would assume that makes it a commercial use of the property. Is that a violation and will the city enforce it?

2. If you have extra dock space at your house and you rent a slip or two to people you found on Craigslist will DES call that a marina? Does DES have any zoning laws? My understanding is the Laconia regulations, and all of the town regulations around the lake, only apply to the shoreline and anything on the water is up to the state.

3. If it is not permissible for private parties to rent out boat slips at the homes that they own in residential areas how does that impact the weekly renters who bring boats to the property that they rented and use the docks at that property?

So many questions. I wish I was smarter!
I think the key word here is "season". Whether you put a boat in your yard or at your dock for the season, that can easily be translated to 6 months or more, not short term, not subject to Room and Meals tax.

If you rent your house and dock by the week in the summer, or for winter skiers, you have to live in a zone where that is permitted. Residential rental is still residential, not commercial. Laconia, and most towns, has a variety of zones. For example, you can have a one person hairdresser shop, CPA office, etc. in some places, not i n others. Sometimes subject to a public hearing and permission of the Planning Board or ZBA. As I understand this thread, most of Laconia shorefront is resort/residential and you can do short term rentals. The fly in the ointment came with some short term rentals in non-permitted zones that had been ignored for some years were discovered and complaints were brought to the city.
Due diligence when buying a house used to be "Is it a good school?" and Where's the bus stop?" Now, you have to learn what your neighbors are up to, what rules the HOA has, can I have a garage sale, can I cut my grass before 9:00 am? Best one is, can a Bike Week vendor rent my front yard?
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:16 AM   #147
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I think the key word here is "season". Whether you put a boat in your yard or at your dock for the season, that can easily be translated to 6 months or more, not short term, not subject to Room and Meals tax.

If you rent your house and dock by the week in the summer, or for winter skiers, you have to live in a zone where that is permitted. Residential rental is still residential, not commercial. Laconia, and most towns, has a variety of zones. For example, you can have a one person hairdresser shop, CPA office, etc. in some places, not i n others. Sometimes subject to a public hearing and permission of the Planning Board or ZBA. As I understand this thread, most of Laconia shorefront is resort/residential and you can do short term rentals. The fly in the ointment came with some short term rentals in non-permitted zones that had been ignored for some years were discovered and complaints were brought to the city.
Due diligence when buying a house used to be "Is it a good school?" and Where's the bus stop?" Now, you have to learn what your neighbors are up to, what rules the HOA has, can I have a garage sale, can I cut my grass before 9:00 am? Best one is, can a Bike Week vendor rent my front yard?
Off topic but a year back I went electric leaf blower, weed whacker and lawnmower for my smallish yard. I mow at 6 am now if I want, its almost silent! No more waking up the neighbors aha
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:26 AM   #148
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Default Taking this a step further...

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If the current Laconia laws prohibit short term rentals in areas zoned residential then one would assume that only "residential" uses are permitted in those areas.

1. If you store your boat on a trailer on your property I would assume that it is permissible in a residential zone. What about when a couple of people leave their boats on trailers at your house for the off season and pay you a few dollars. I would assume that makes it a commercial use of the property. Is that a violation and will the city enforce it?

2. If you have extra dock space at your house and you rent a slip or two to people you found on Craigslist will DES call that a marina? Does DES have any zoning laws? My understanding is the Laconia regulations, and all of the town regulations around the lake, only apply to the shoreline and anything on the water is up to the state.

3. If it is not permissible for private parties to rent out boat slips at the homes that they own in residential areas how does that impact the weekly renters who bring boats to the property that they rented and use the docks at that property?

So many questions. I wish I was smarter!
What if someone, say a landscape contractor, runs their business out of their home? Is that allowed in single family residential area? What if they keep their commercial truck in their driveway or on the street with their logo displayed on the side? What if someone operates a small machine repair shop out of their garage, would that be allowed. How about a person teaching piano or guitar lessons out of their house? What if it were an electric guitar and they played with their windows open? All of these seem like legitimate business enterprises that folks would run out of their house - would these activities also be banned because of zoning laws?
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:28 AM   #149
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If the current Laconia laws prohibit short term rentals in areas zoned residential then one would assume that only "residential" uses are permitted in those areas.


So many questions. I wish I was smarter!
With the City of Laconia I would definitely not make that assumption. Especially since this is relatively new. I do know that many HOA's in the area do not allow business of any type to be run out of homes but the city itself does allow certain types of business to be run from the home. I inquired several years ago and I know I am allowing to run my CPA practice out of my home in Laconia but later found out my HOA does not allow it.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:16 AM   #150
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https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...9503ee281.html

The fourth time was the charm for people seeking city approval to operate a short-term rental in a residential neighborhood.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:37 AM   #151
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https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...9503ee281.html

The fourth time was the charm for people seeking city approval to operate a short-term rental in a residential neighborhood.
Not a fan of the new proposal that would allow rentals in certain areas but would "require approval on neighbors". It should be its allowed or not. You cannot leave it up to neighbors to decide if someone can or can't rent. It's like opening Pandora's box. If someone is disgruntled for unrelated issues they can just vote no
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:01 AM   #152
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https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...9503ee281.html

The fourth time was the charm for people seeking city approval to operate a short-term rental in a residential neighborhood.
OK so how did the City see this as a "Hardship"? The others told the city basically the same thing..They were very clear in the first three hearings that needing the extra money to keep your house was not a hardship. City has issues and still waiting for someone with deep pockets to sue them on this.
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:11 AM   #153
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OK so how did the City see this as a "Hardship"? The others told the city basically the same thing..They were very clear in the first three hearings that needing the extra money to keep your house was not a hardship. City has issues and still waiting for someone with deep pockets to sue them on this.
And the end result we will all lose. I believe you are correct, someone with deep pockets will sue and the Laconia's legal fees to defend will be astronomical.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:24 AM   #154
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Default Update from the Laconia Sun

A committee has forwarded their proposal for rules that would allow rentals anywhere in Laconia.

The proposed rules apply to a dwelling offered for rent for up to 184 consecutive nights. Owners would be required to apply to the city to operate a short-term rental and pay a fee, still to be determined, that would cover the costs of reviewing the property and notifying neighbors.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...b9547f675.html
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:11 AM   #155
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A committee has forwarded their proposal for rules that would allow rentals anywhere in Laconia.



The proposed rules apply to a dwelling offered for rent for up to 184 consecutive nights. Owners would be required to apply to the city to operate a short-term rental and pay a fee, still to be determined, that would cover the costs of reviewing the property and notifying neighbors.



https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...b9547f675.html


Seems to be a fair resolution. This is very similar to short term rentals is Florida. The landlord is charged a short term rental tax that is passed along to the tenant.


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Old 06-19-2019, 07:14 AM   #156
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Seems to be a fair resolution. This is very similar to short term rentals is Florida. The landlord is charged a short term rental tax that is passed along to the tenant.


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NH already has the Meals and Rentals Tax of 9%. So this would be more similar to Key West where you pay the state tax and the local tax.

The huge difference is a renter just needs to go to another town the lake to avoid the Laconia Tax. Remember this is a town that already has property taxes out of control so owners are already passing on what the market will bare of those property Taxes.


Just so we all understand what a renter pays now in fees (I can tell you first hand the market is having a hard time bearing it).

A HomeAway/VRBO fee to the home owner, is $500 per year, plus fees on every rental that vary.

The renter pays, up to $499 in home away fees plus 9% NH rentals tax, plus most places have a cleaning fee, possible other fees.

The total fees being charged to an owner and renter on a property that is ~$4500+ rental (pretty typical for a week on the lake) is an extra $1000 being shared between the owner and renter.

The result is many homeowners have has to reduce pricing slightly. Now, let us add another local tax, why would anyone rent in Laconia when they can go one town over and avoid that fee.

The result will be a potential property buyer will weight this in their decision-making process even if they don't plan to rent but like the option. They will either pay less for the property in Laconia or just elsewhere.

This applies to the entire city.

Sorry for my terrible grammer.

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Old 06-19-2019, 07:26 AM   #157
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What if someone, say a landscape contractor, runs their business out of their home? Is that allowed in single family residential area? What if they keep their commercial truck in their driveway or on the street with their logo displayed on the side? What if someone operates a small machine repair shop out of their garage, would that be allowed. How about a person teaching piano or guitar lessons out of their house? What if it were an electric guitar and they played with their windows open? All of these seem like legitimate business enterprises that folks would run out of their house - would these activities also be banned because of zoning laws?
FOUR ( 4 ) What if's....... Typical Liberal ****. Try speaking the truths not the WHAT IF'S. You voted these liberals in, You know how they work. Tax Tax tax, and now you are complaining about it. LOL. Don't like it, Move back to the state you came from. Oops, sorry , forgot, it's even worse in your home state.
Love Love Love to see this happening. You vote these Democrats in, you get to deal with their Rath. Within a few years, NH will be as bad or worse as Mass, RI, Conn and NY. Guess you guys will fit right in then huh.

Please carry on now to RUIN NEW HAMPSHIRE even more.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:47 AM   #158
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Default Fair Resolution

I think this is a fair resolution to a difficult problem....

YES, it cuts into the Landlords profit margin, but it also levels the playing field between the short term rentals & existing hotels/motels in the area.

AIRBNB/VRBO/HOMEAWAY etc.. should also be collecting the 9% Meals & Rentals tax.


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Old 06-19-2019, 08:03 AM   #159
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I think this is a fair resolution to a difficult problem....

YES, it cuts into the Landlords profit margin, but it also levels the playing field between the short term rentals & existing hotels/motels in the area.

AIRBNB/VRBO/HOMEAWAY etc.. should also be collecting the 9% Meals & Rentals tax.


Woodsy
I get what they are trying to do but how does this solve any rental issues this just adds fees and government over cite. How does it stop noise complaints, trash etc. Checking smoke detectors etc is great but doesn't solve the neighborhood complaints.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:14 AM   #160
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I get what they are trying to do but how does this solve any rental issues this just adds fees and government over cite. How does it stop noise complaints, trash etc. Checking smoke detectors etc is great but doesn't solve the neighborhood complaints.
Well if I read it correctly if you as the "landlord" have three complaints against you or any of your renters you loose the right to rent. This is GREAT like I said from the start of this thread the city is leaving it up to your neighbors to decide if you can rent of not.. Look at Lake Opechee as there have been two cases if not more that have gone to the city for VRBO and have loss due to neighbors complaining and both of them have sold there homes. Have also heard of of more cases or Air B&B in the area going down the same road as neighbors are fed up with them also. So at the end of the day the City of Laconia will make some extra money in fees and the neighbors will have the final say if you rent of not. Start paying off your neighbors if you want to rent!!!
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:37 AM   #161
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I don't see the 3 strikes in the article, where did you read that? Or do you have inside info?
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:42 AM   #162
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I don't see the 3 strikes in the article, where did you read that? Or do you have inside info?
I will look back but read that last week in two different places. Also when was at the city meeting they told they person that got approved to rent this.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:51 AM   #163
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I will look back but read that last week in two different places. Also when was at the city meeting they told they person that got approved to rent this.
Improbably erroneously assumed since it was not in the article that they were taking that portion out. As I stated in posts above you cannot let neighbors decide if a homeowner can or cannot short term rent their home or the obvious reasons like disgruntled neighbors ect.... Also I believe the short term renters are much more behaved than long term renters which would not be subject to this proposal at all.
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:34 AM   #164
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I get what they are trying to do but how does this solve any rental issues this just adds fees and government over cite. How does it stop noise complaints, trash etc. Checking smoke detectors etc is great but doesn't solve the neighborhood complaints.
There are 2 options here.... ban it completely (likely to end up in court) or regulate it.

This is a start.... They are addressing the parking issue. They are requiring a Fire Dept inspection. The KEY quote from the article...

"Approved applications must be renewed yearly and can be revoked for failure to follow the regulations. Fines can also be levied if someone operates a short-term rental in violation of the rules.

There will also be procedures for neighbors to complain about noise, trash, or parking problems associated with these rentals."

So there will be procedures in place for the neighbors if they have complaints.

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Old 06-19-2019, 10:50 AM   #165
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There are 2 options here.... ban it completely (likely to end up in court) or regulate it.

This is a start.... They are addressing the parking issue. They are requiring a Fire Dept inspection. The KEY quote from the article...

"Approved applications must be renewed yearly and can be revoked for failure to follow the regulations. Fines can also be levied if someone operates a short-term rental in violation of the rules.

There will also be procedures for neighbors to complain about noise, trash, or parking problems associated with these rentals."

So there will be procedures in place for the neighbors if they have complaints.

Woodsy
Understood. But why is doing nothing and enforce current trash, noise and building code laws, not an option?

HomeAway, Airbnb have been around a long time at this point and before that, you always had rental services. The short term rental problem is not nearly as big an issue in Laconia as it is said in NY or San Fran. Neither of those places has been able to solve the issue, why Laconia is trying to crack the Airbnb problem before the rest of the world is kinda crazy to me. When Laconia historically gets things wrong. Remember the article cited one complaint last year. So one complaint leads to every rental in Laconia getting new laws. Rental Places that have been rented for decades may no longer be allowed to due to a disgruntled neighbor. Seems they are solving a small problem that does not need solving, and they could just use existing laws and codes to get a fair outcome for all.
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:54 AM   #166
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The arm of government that is to big. Way to many laws.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:11 AM   #167
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The short term rental problem is not nearly as big an issue in Laconia as it is said in NY or San Fran. Neither of those places has been able to solve the issue, why Laconia is trying to crack the Airbnb problem before the rest of the world is kinda crazy to me. When Laconia historically gets things wrong.


LOL And what party runs NY and San Fran and Laconia? Are ya seeing a pattern here? Hence the DOWNFALL of The once great state of New Hampshire.
Carry on now, see what else you can ruin.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:23 AM   #168
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Understood. But why is doing nothing and enforce current trash, noise and building code laws, not an option?

HomeAway, Airbnb have been around a long time at this point and before that, you always had rental services. The short term rental problem is not nearly as big an issue in Laconia as it is said in NY or San Fran. Neither of those places has been able to solve the issue, why Laconia is trying to crack the Airbnb problem before the rest of the world is kinda crazy to me. When Laconia historically gets things wrong. Remember the article cited one complaint last year. So one complaint leads to every rental in Laconia getting new laws. Rental Places that have been rented for decades may no longer be allowed to due to a disgruntled neighbor. Seems they are solving a small problem that does not need solving, and they could just use existing laws and codes to get a fair outcome for all.
If you enforce the current codes... Short term rentals are not allowed at all! So if a neighbor complains, the city has no choice but to shut it down. The city cannot just turn a blind eye to people who blatantly disregard the zoning laws.

With these new rules & regulations, it seems to me they take the "neighbor shutting you down option off the table". In order to do that, they are requiring people who do the short term rentals to follow some rules to make it a safe/better experience for both the renters and the neighborhood.

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Old 06-19-2019, 12:31 PM   #169
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If you enforce the current codes... Short term rentals are not allowed at all! So if a neighbor complains, the city has no choice but to shut it down. The city cannot just turn a blind eye to people who blatantly disregard the zoning laws.

With these new rules & regulations, it seems to me they take the "neighbor shutting you down option off the table". In order to do that, they are requiring people who do the short term rentals to follow some rules to make it a safe/better experience for both the renters and the neighborhood.

Woodsy
As I have said before, I don't see in the current zoning where it says it is not allowed, I have even asked the town. This is why it is commonly believed the new rule they are currently enforcing would losing in court. Like I said they should just stick to the rules on the books.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:35 PM   #170
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As I have said before, I don't see in the current zoning where it says it is not allowed, I have even asked the town. This is why it is commonly believed the new rule they are currently enforcing would losing in court. Like I said they should just stick to the rules on the books.
Redbarn....

It took me all of 5 minutes to find it on the Laconia City website. Currently in the RS districts (Residential Single family) of Laconia...

Hotel/Motel/Inn = Not Permitted
Boarding/Rooming/Lodging = Not Permitted
Bed & Breakfast = Conditional Use Permitted

The City has and should enforce the existing rules! Under the existing rules the short term rentals are not allowed. The City is trying to reach a compromise that is fair to all....

I have attached the Zoning doc so you can see for yourself!

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Old 06-19-2019, 01:41 PM   #171
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Redbarn....

It took me all of 5 minutes to find it on the Laconia City website. Currently in the RS districts (Residential Single family) of Laconia...

Hotel/Motel/Inn = Not Permitted
Boarding/Rooming/Lodging = Not Permitted
Bed & Breakfast = Conditional Use Permitted

The City has and should enforce the existing rules! Under the existing rules the short term rentals are not allowed. The City is trying to reach a compromise that is fair to all....

I have attached the Zoning doc so you can see for yourself!

Woodsy
Short term rentals do not meet the definition of everything you just cited. We have gone through this before in this thread. I am out we are just rehashing the same things.

You keep pulling me back in haha. I don't care to comment anymore but you below post references boarding/rooming/lodging and then cites the hotel definition. All well and good but again you are mixing the current argument about the need for a variance in downtown and the need for this new thing in the current article. Hotels etc are permitted in for example the weirs. I also disagree with your view on the definition and There are work arounds. There is going be a lot of issues created from this in the weirs that did not existed before due to this. They should have left it alone.

Last edited by Redbarn; 06-19-2019 at 04:50 PM. Reason: Comment on below post
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:08 PM   #172
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Short term rentals do not meet the definition of everything you just cited. We have gone through this before in this thread. I am out we are just rehashing the same things.
Sorry RedBarn.....

I get that you don't like it... However, Short Term Rentals is ABSOLUTELY the same as Boarding/Rooming/Lodging category used by the City.

NH RSA on the matter....

78-A:3 Definitions
III. "Hotel" means an establishment which holds itself out to the public by offering sleeping accommodations for rent, whether or not the major portion of its operating receipts is derived from sleeping accommodations. The term includes, but is not limited to, inns, motels, tourist homes and cabins, ski dormitories, ski lodges, lodging homes, rooming houses, furnished room houses, boarding houses, private clubs, hostels, cottages, camps, chalets, barracks, dormitories, and apartments.VII. "Permanent resident" means any occupant who has occupied any room in a hotel for at least 185 consecutive days. (i.e. short term = 184 or less) (motor vehicles are 180 days or less)

Here the proposal going to the full City Council & Planning board...

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Old 06-19-2019, 03:22 PM   #173
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I'm not sure a taxi is any safer. Bottom line, always be aware of your surroundings.
I am and do. LOL, that's why I'm leaving. KA-BOOM !!! Carry on, Please complete you task of Ruining NH.
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Old 07-09-2019, 06:01 AM   #174
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Default Another unenforceable law

I have had properties In Both Southdown and Long Bay and for a time both. July 4th week I saw many renters in Long Bay and SDS from what a friend told me South Down still has many renters. One was my neighbors house, I Said hello and it took me a few minutes and the man told me they were renting for the week. Nice folks no issues they are quieter then some of my full time neighbors. I am guessing they were relatives of the owners. Wink wink..How do you enforce or investigate that? So we now pit neighbor against neighbor in The Im Going to rat you out for renting saga.
With high taxes I’m sure the owner is trying to cover part of his taxes or Hoa’s fees. I do not rent my property out, = this is another unenforceable law and don’t we have bigger fish to fry with all the issues plaguing our cities and towns? The city of Laconia should spend a more time coming up with a Master plan for the Weirs Beach area which has languished for decades without any clear vision or direction of what it could be.

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Old 07-09-2019, 06:23 AM   #175
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Default July 4th neighbors...

My neighbor (full-time resident) had 24 guests in a two bedroom house for four days. Well behaved and quieter than I was expecting. But, I would not want it all summer (or for another four days). You may be able to enforce control on short-term renters if they violate their agreement. However, I have no control, nor agreement, with my full-time neighbors, unless it gets really out-of-control... Then my relationship with them would be ruined forever.

I would imagine there are no rules regarding over night guests in one's home.
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