Running light question

Ken B · 07-11-2008, 07:38 PM

My running lights aren't working. I think it's the bulb and will replace that tomorrow. My question is this...does anyone know of an emergency running light kit? I would've been in trouble if it was dark when I discovered it wasn't working. I saw some glow sticks on the West Marine site but they were green and white.

Ken

codeman671 · 07-11-2008, 08:30 PM

Atwood makes clamp-on lights that are basically flashlights with a red/green domed split lense and an all white domed lense. I have the red/green and have used it in a pinch.

brk-lnt · 07-11-2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman671

Atwood makes clamp-on lights that are basically flashlights with a red/green domed split lense and an all white domed lense. I have the red/green and have used it in a pinch.

Yup, was going to suggest the same thing. I think Parafunalia carries them locally.

ITD · 07-12-2008, 06:50 AM

I got caught out without a stern light, now I keep 4 or 5 bulbs in the boat glove box. If one burns out I can change it in less than 5 minutes....

Nauset · 07-12-2008, 06:53 AM

Those flashlight based running lights are great. We have a set with suction cups and they work good for small boats that don't have lights. We have also used them on the sunfish to sail at night. It's a lot of fun. I never thought of using them as a backup for the bigger boat. Great idea!

Irrigation Guy · 07-12-2008, 04:28 PM

I'm Selling a brand new battery powered suction cup mount one on ebay right now. Check it out. Item number is 280244675821

I'd let it go for $10.00 and end the action early if you or someone local is interested.

Rattlesnake Guy · 07-12-2008, 05:46 PM

The other day our stern light got lifted from our boat and we arrived at around 10:30 PM for our return to the island. I know we would have been stopped by the MPs and that was not our primary concern but my son took out his cell phone and took a black picture with the camera and then converted it to a negative image which was then white. He held the phone up on the back of the boat while we headed back to the island. Not legal but certainly just as visible as the stern light.

When I was his age I would have had to build a fire on the boat......

Next day we bought a new one.

NightWing · 07-12-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

The other day our stern light got lifted from our boat and we arrived at around 10:30 PM for our return to the island. I know we would have been stopped by the MPs and that was not our primary concern but my son took out his cell phone and took a black picture with the camera and then converted it to a negative image which was then white. He held the phone up on the back of the boat while we headed back to the island. Not legal but certainly just as visible as the stern light.

When I was his age I would have had to build a fire on the boat......

Next day we bought a new one.

But not visible 360 degrees around for a distance of 2 miles.

Mee-n-Mac · 07-12-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

But not visible 360 degrees around for a distance of 2 miles.

Depends on how big the fire was ...

OH, you mean the cell phone.

2Blackdogs · 07-13-2008, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nauset

Those flashlight based running lights are great. We have a set with suction cups and they work good for small boats that don't have lights. We have also used them on the sunfish to sail at night. It's a lot of fun. I never thought of using them as a backup for the bigger boat. Great idea!

Of all the boats NOT to use portable navlights on, it's the Sunfish at night! It may be the world's most popular boat, but most boaters stop canoing after just one capsize.

On a Sunfish, capsizes (and rightings) can happen 3-4 times per outing and think nothing of it. At night, with no opportunities to watch for the approach of sudden gusts or wakes, a capsized Sunfish will have *zero* lights showing until righted. And maybe not then!

Getting the Sunfish upright, with a suddenly wet and heavier sail, and lines afloat or coiling around you in the water, can be a challenge even in bright sun!

Night sailing by Sunfish is a Winni practice to discourage, definitely.

Island Girl · 07-13-2008, 07:50 AM

I bought mine at West Marine years ago and keep them in the boat. My old boat lights would stop working a lot so these kept me safe and legal. I think you can get battery operated ones.. and those that will have a DC plug.

Can I use them on my 3 seater SeaDoo which is classified as a boat?

IG

fatlazyless · 07-13-2008, 08:18 AM

[QUOTE

Can I use them on my 3 seater SeaDoo which is classified as a boat?

IG[/QUOTE]

Should be ok?
.......

Just yesterday, bought a 27' Skater Cat w/ twin Merc 300's at a Gilford yard sale, and guess what.......no running lights...because it's a Skater Cat......go figure...what was Skater Cat think'n?

Hi-ho.....it's off to Wal-Mart I go, searching for some suction cup, running lites.....plus a paddle for the sailboat!

jrc · 07-13-2008, 03:58 PM

do those battery powered lights meet this:

Saf-C 403.15 Lights on all Motorboats
...
(d) Every white light prescribed by this section shall be of such character as to be visible at a distance of at least 2 miles. Every colored light prescribed by this section shall be of such character as to be visible at a distance of at least one mile. The word "visible" in this subsection, when applied to lights, means visible on a dark night with clear atmosphere.

Even if not, they are still better then driving with no lights. I think I'm going to get some spare bulbs, can't hurt to have them.

coley · 07-13-2008, 06:54 PM

I had my rear light go out one time and was using one of those suction cup white lights as a backup and got pulled over by the marine patrol because the white light was not 18 inches (I think) above the working red and green light in the front--so if the white light goes out, make sure that someone is standing up with it!!!!!

NightWing · 07-13-2008, 07:15 PM

An issue with those portable lights is that they tend to be short. The white light needs to be visible 360° around the horizon. If the lightpole is shorter than the operator or passengers, it will be blocked from all around view and isn't in compliance, regardless of the candlepower.

Orion · 07-14-2008, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken B

My running lights aren't working. I think it's the bulb and will replace that tomorrow. My question is this...does anyone know of an emergency running light kit?

The best emergency running light kit is:

spare bulb ($1.00)
screwdriver ($1.00)

....and when you use the kit, the light is fixed!

Be sure to carry the bulb types for both bow and stern lights.

Misty Blue · 07-14-2008, 09:28 AM

Nauset:

Night sailing sounds like fun to me! We did it for years. I think that the clip/cup on lights are fine. They meet the requirements of the NHMP. But do keep in mind that the lights for a sailboat under sail are diffrent than for a powerboat.

A powerboat must show a 360 degree white light visible for 2 miles while underway between sunset and sunrise.

To identify a vessel as a sailing vessel (not under power) the lights are different.

A sailing vessel does not show a masthead light (360 deg). Instead a vessel under sail shows port and starboard running lights and a 135 deg. stern light. That way when a power vesel sees just the red and green lights with no white light he knows that he is coming on to a sailing vessel and hs is the give way vessel.

So when you mount your white light, I'm not sure how I would do it on a sunfish avoiding the tiller, make sure that you cover the front 225 deg. of the light with tape or something so that it only shows 135 deg. aft.

Check it out in the NH boating guide, get underway and have some fun!

Misty Blue.

Mee-n-Mac · 07-14-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

An issue with those portable lights is that they tend to be short. The white light needs to be visible 360° around the horizon. If the lightpole is shorter than the operator or passengers, it will be blocked from all around view and isn't in compliance, regardless of the candlepower.

A good point ! I notice a couple of kayakers in the bay during the fireworks show last Sat. The MPs went over to talk to them and after a few minutes they proceeded in their way. One had a white light on his (her) chest and another on the back. Didn't meet the 360 deg requirement and I'd have thought them too weak as well. The other had a head mounted light (I think) which made more sense if only for the reason you mention above.

Both were better off than the canoeist who had no lights what so ever.

I recall seeing a flotilla of kayaks at night in Wolfeboro bay a few years ago. They had lights on short poles which I think suction cupped to the hull. Perhaps bright enough (though they looked kind of greenish cast) but they'd become invisible as one kayaker passed in front of another. I"ve seen similar things with all arounds on boats with bimini's. They disappear depending on the angle to the boat and/or plow (speed) state. We got an extra long pole for just that reason. Whatever you run for an all around, check to be sure it'll stay visible under operating conditions.

upthesaukee · 07-14-2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

A good point ! I notice a couple of kayakers in the bay during the fireworks show last Sat. The MPs went over to talk to them and after a few minutes they proceeded in their way. One had a white light on his (her) chest and another on the back. Didn't meet the 360 deg requirement and I'd have thought them too weak as well. The other had a head mounted light (I think) which made more sense if only for the reason you mention above.

Both were better off than the canoeist who had no lights what so ever.

We were anchored over by the two markers off the back bay bridge, and watched the Marine Patrol escort the two kayakers across the bay from your side to the west side, and watched them get out of their kayaks and put them away for the night! Don't know if any citations were issued.

EricP · 07-15-2008, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Girl

Can I use them on my 3 seater SeaDoo which is classified as a boat?

IG

I am wondering the same thing. If I install lights can I use it at night? Mine to are 3 seaters and register as boats. Where can we go to determine if this is legal?

NightWing · 07-15-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricP

I am wondering the same thing. If I install lights can I use it at night? Mine to are 3 seaters and register as boats. Where can we go to determine if this is legal?

Legal questions aside, did you ever wonder why the manufacturers of the 3 seaters choose not to install lights or even offer them as an option?

2Blackdogs · 07-15-2008, 11:13 AM

Or for a Sunfish?

brk-lnt · 07-15-2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

Legal questions aside, did you ever wonder why the manufacturers of the 3 seaters choose not to install lights or even offer them as an option?

A couple of thoughts/questions:

Are the 3 seaters universally recognized as boats, or only in NH and other select states?

While I see the value to using a PWC at night, all in all I think it is a bit too risky for wide-spread adoption. The craft is very small and hard to see, you generally get wet (and it's colder at night), and the water spray in your face can make it hard to see (and night navigation isn't always the best visibility to begin with).

Excalibur · 07-15-2008, 11:47 AM

I picked up a handy LED red/green and white light and strobe combo light in Newton,MA at a Charles River kayak center. I keep it attached to my life jacket by the helm station for emergency lighting. I just took a look on the web and found the device I have available online. I have had it over a year and its still going strong for something in storage all winter.

http://www.casanovasadventures.com/c...ern_LED_Light_

EricP · 07-15-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

A couple of thoughts/questions:

Are the 3 seaters universally recognized as boats, or only in NH and other select states?

While I see the value to using a PWC at night, all in all I think it is a bit too risky for wide-spread adoption. The craft is very small and hard to see, you generally get wet (and it's colder at night), and the water spray in your face can make it hard to see (and night navigation isn't always the best visibility to begin with).

I don't think they are widely recognized as boat, and I don't think it matters. NH recognizes them as boats and so I think that should be enough. It's not risky, they are very stable and I would rather be on my SeaDoo than in a canoe at night. They aren't small and would be very visible if lighting was properly installed per legal requirements. I don't intend on riding them like a lunatic at night so spray should not be a factor either. I know what you are getting at, but like any other activity on the lake at night it's the driver's responsibility to be safe and drive safely. I am capable, I am just wondering if the law would allow it.

brk-lnt · 07-15-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricP

I don't think they are widely recognized as boat, and I don't think it matters. NH recognizes them as boats and so I think that should be enough. It's not risky, they are very stable and I would rather be on my SeaDoo than in a canoe at night. They aren't small and would be very visible if lighting was properly installed per legal requirements. I don't intend on riding them like a lunatic at night so spray should not be a factor either. I know what you are getting at, but like any other activity on the lake at night it's the driver's responsibility to be safe and drive safely. I am capable, I am just wondering if the law would allow it.

Actually, all I was getting at is that there is probably not enough of a net market demand to even make offering the lights as a $$$ upgrade option viable for the manufacturers. It would probably also take a mild bit of creativity to setup a 360degree light that didn't interfere with the drivers nightvision OR boarding from the rear of the craft.

Just because one state recognizes them as a boat does not justify much to the manufacturers (IMO).

EricP · 07-15-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Actually, all I was getting at is that there is probably not enough of a net market demand to even make offering the lights as a $$$ upgrade option viable for the manufacturers. It would probably also take a mild bit of creativity to setup a 360degree light that didn't interfere with the drivers nightvision OR boarding from the rear of the craft.

Just because one state recognizes them as a boat does not justify much to the manufacturers (IMO).

I absolutely agree, I'm am wondering if I fashioned a light system would I be legal to put around and view the fireworks at the Weirs on a Friday night? I have no problem building myself something, I just want to make sure I am not wasting my time first

brk-lnt · 07-15-2008, 08:38 PM

Well, you would certainly have a defensible position if you were stopped. I guess it would depend on how much time and effort (if any) you would need to put into your defense to test your theory.

Let us know how it turns out, I'll PM you my phone number in case you need bail. LOL.

2Blackdogs · 07-17-2008, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Are the 3 seaters universally recognized as boats, or only in NH and other select states?

A New Hampshire Representative, paid $100 a year to represent his constituents, revised NH law to make 3-seaters "a boat". Fewer stringent NH regulations apply to them today.

That Representative also SOLD them, is since deceased, but his "legacy" lives on in New Hampshire law.

The only other alternative reference to PWCs is to the State of Hawaii, whose laws group PWCs as "THRILL CRAFT".
http://hawaii.gov/dlnr/dbor/rules/am...3240_13256.htm

There may be other states that treat PWCs differently.

Powerboats NOT being factory-equipped with normal navlights may be explained by this regrettable night-use PWC behavior.

http://starbulletin.com/2002/06/27/news/story8.html

Sunset Bob · 07-17-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricP

I am wondering the same thing. If I install lights can I use it at night? Mine to are 3 seaters and register as boats. Where can we go to determine if this is legal?

Check out this photo.It's a jet ski with running lights.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...hp?photo=13138

EricP · 07-19-2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunset Bob

Check out this photo.It's a jet ski with running lights.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...hp?photo=13138

Pretty cool.

EricP · 07-19-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Blackdogs

Powerboats NOT being factory-equipped with normal navlights may be explained by this regrettable night-use PWC behavior.

http://starbulletin.com/2002/06/27/news/story8.html

Huh? Talk about being out in left field. That incident had zip to do with running lights.

07-11-2008, 07:38 PM	#1
Ken B Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Running light question My running lights aren't working. I think it's the bulb and will replace that tomorrow. My question is this...does anyone know of an emergency running light kit? I would've been in trouble if it was dark when I discovered it wasn't working. I saw some glow sticks on the West Marine site but they were green and white. Ken

07-12-2008, 04:28 PM	#6
Irrigation Guy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 484 Thanks: 89 Thanked 138 Times in 72 Posts	Suction Cup Light I'm Selling a brand new battery powered suction cup mount one on ebay right now. Check it out. Item number is 280244675821 I'd let it go for $10.00 and end the action early if you or someone local is interested.

07-13-2008, 07:50 AM	#11
Island Girl Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Central MA Posts: 2,352 Thanks: 18 Thanked 535 Times in 179 Posts	Portable lights are great I bought mine at West Marine years ago and keep them in the boat. My old boat lights would stop working a lot so these kept me safe and legal. I think you can get battery operated ones.. and those that will have a DC plug. Can I use them on my 3 seater SeaDoo which is classified as a boat? IG __________________ Island Girl ....... Make Lemonade

07-13-2008, 08:18 AM	#12
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,526 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	[QUOTE Can I use them on my 3 seater SeaDoo which is classified as a boat? IG[/QUOTE] Should be ok? ....... Just yesterday, bought a 27' Skater Cat w/ twin Merc 300's at a Gilford yard sale, and guess what.......no running lights...because it's a Skater Cat......go figure...what was Skater Cat think'n? Hi-ho.....it's off to Wal-Mart I go, searching for some suction cup, running lites.....plus a paddle for the sailboat! __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

07-13-2008, 06:54 PM	#14
coley Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Danvers,MA and 1 wk/yr Wolfeboro Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 7 Posts	White running light I had my rear light go out one time and was using one of those suction cup white lights as a backup and got pulled over by the marine patrol because the white light was not 18 inches (I think) above the working red and green light in the front--so if the white light goes out, make sure that someone is standing up with it!!!!!

07-11-2008, 08:30 PM	#2
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,360 Thanks: 210 Thanked 764 Times in 448 Posts	Atwood makes clamp-on lights that are basically flashlights with a red/green domed split lense and an all white domed lense. I have the red/green and have used it in a pinch.

07-12-2008, 06:50 AM	#4
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,860 Thanks: 461 Thanked 666 Times in 366 Posts	I got caught out without a stern light, now I keep 4 or 5 bulbs in the boat glove box. If one burns out I can change it in less than 5 minutes....

07-12-2008, 06:53 AM	#5
Nauset Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 95 Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts	Those flashlight based running lights are great. We have a set with suction cups and they work good for small boats that don't have lights. We have also used them on the sunfish to sail at night. It's a lot of fun. I never thought of using them as a backup for the bigger boat. Great idea!

07-12-2008, 05:46 PM	#7
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	The other day our stern light got lifted from our boat and we arrived at around 10:30 PM for our return to the island. I know we would have been stopped by the MPs and that was not our primary concern but my son took out his cell phone and took a black picture with the camera and then converted it to a negative image which was then white. He held the phone up on the back of the boat while we headed back to the island. Not legal but certainly just as visible as the stern light. When I was his age I would have had to build a fire on the boat...... Next day we bought a new one.

07-13-2008, 03:58 PM	#13
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	do those battery powered lights meet this: Saf-C 403.15 Lights on all Motorboats ... (d) Every white light prescribed by this section shall be of such character as to be visible at a distance of at least 2 miles. Every colored light prescribed by this section shall be of such character as to be visible at a distance of at least one mile. The word "visible" in this subsection, when applied to lights, means visible on a dark night with clear atmosphere. Even if not, they are still better then driving with no lights. I think I'm going to get some spare bulbs, can't hurt to have them.

07-13-2008, 07:15 PM	#15
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	An issue with those portable lights is that they tend to be short. The white light needs to be visible 360° around the horizon. If the lightpole is shorter than the operator or passengers, it will be blocked from all around view and isn't in compliance, regardless of the candlepower.

07-14-2008, 09:28 AM	#17
Misty Blue Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 658 Thanks: 121 Thanked 283 Times in 98 Posts	Vessel under sail... Nauset: Night sailing sounds like fun to me! We did it for years. I think that the clip/cup on lights are fine. They meet the requirements of the NHMP. But do keep in mind that the lights for a sailboat under sail are diffrent than for a powerboat. A powerboat must show a 360 degree white light visible for 2 miles while underway between sunset and sunrise. To identify a vessel as a sailing vessel (not under power) the lights are different. A sailing vessel does not show a masthead light (360 deg). Instead a vessel under sail shows port and starboard running lights and a 135 deg. stern light. That way when a power vesel sees just the red and green lights with no white light he knows that he is coming on to a sailing vessel and hs is the give way vessel. So when you mount your white light, I'm not sure how I would do it on a sunfish avoiding the tiller, make sure that you cover the front 225 deg. of the light with tape or something so that it only shows 135 deg. aft. Check it out in the NH boating guide, get underway and have some fun! Misty Blue.

07-15-2008, 11:13 AM	#22
2Blackdogs Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 115 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Or for a Sunfish?

07-15-2008, 11:47 AM	#24
Excalibur Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Gilford,NH is where I would like to be and Southborough, MA is where I have to be Posts: 85 Thanks: 14 Thanked 10 Times in 3 Posts	LED backup light I picked up a handy LED red/green and white light and strobe combo light in Newton,MA at a Charles River kayak center. I keep it attached to my life jacket by the helm station for emergency lighting. I just took a look on the web and found the device I have available online. I have had it over a year and its still going strong for something in storage all winter. http://www.casanovasadventures.com/c...ern_LED_Light_

07-15-2008, 08:38 PM	#28
brk-lnt Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Down Shores Posts: 1,937 Thanks: 532 Thanked 568 Times in 334 Posts	Well, you would certainly have a defensible position if you were stopped. I guess it would depend on how much time and effort (if any) you would need to put into your defense to test your theory. Let us know how it turns out, I'll PM you my phone number in case you need bail. LOL.