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Old 01-06-2020, 01:50 PM   #101
chachee52
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Originally Posted by joey2665 View Post
Question: Are unpowered sail boats such as Sunfish types required to be registered?

If so then kayaks should be subject to the same rules
Technically a sun fish is supposed to be registered, as I read the law. Any sailboat over 12" (if I remember correctly) and a sunfish is 13'9". This is down from 16ft back in the day that my buddy and I used to race a Hobie 16 and that did not need to be registered.
My 2 cents with this, Why can't they do a card like hikers do? If you get rescued and have the card you are taken care of, if you didn't pay for the card, you have to pay for the rescue efforts. (I understand its not as simple as that and there are other things that go on)
I do understand that there are places that kayakers are putting in and taking parking spots from boaters that are paying for registration fees. This way people that actually use ramps and such have to pay, people that just have kayaks for in front of their house and never transport them don't have to pay. And for someone like myself and my father-in-law who have multiple kayaks (he builds wooden ones) we don't have to pay $200 dollars for boats that we are only using one at a time anyway.
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Old 01-06-2020, 02:09 PM   #102
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Default Contact your State Rep about proposed Kayak Fee NH HB-640

For those registered voters who live in Gilford who wish to voice your opposition or approval to the proposed Kayak fee (HB 640), your State representative is:
Senator Harold French
District 7
Phone: 603.271.4063
email:Harold.French@leg.state.nh.us

FYI, State District 7 includes the following towns:
Andover, Belmont, Boscawen, Canterbury, Franklin, Gilford, Northfield, Salisbury, Webster and Laconia

This Bill is still in the NH 'House', so it would more sense to contact your House Rep for your town.
FYI House District 2 covers Gilford and Meredith, your House Reps are:
Glen C. Aldrich: 343 Old Lakeshore Road Lot 43 Gilford, NH 03249-6598
Harry H. Bean: 234 Saltmarsh Pond Road Gilford, 03249-7567
Deanna E. Jurius: 49 Stoney Brook Road Meredith, NH 03253-4707
Jonathan D. Mackie: 20 Campground Road Meredith, NH 03253

If I have inaccurately mis-stated anything here, please feel free to chime in.......
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Old 01-06-2020, 02:16 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by chachee52 View Post
My 2 cents with this, Why can't they do a card like hikers do? If you get rescued and have the card you are taken care of, if you didn't pay for the card, you have to pay for the rescue efforts.
This sounds remarkably similar to what thinkxingu suggested in post #79.

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Old 01-06-2020, 04:25 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog View Post
For those registered voters who live in Gilford who wish to voice your opposition or approval to the proposed Kayak fee (HB 640), your State representative is:
Senator Harold French
District 7
Phone: 603.271.4063
email:Harold.French@leg.state.nh.us

FYI, State District 7 includes the following towns:
Andover, Belmont, Boscawen, Canterbury, Franklin, Gilford, Northfield, Salisbury, Webster and Laconia

This Bill is still in the NH 'House', so it would more sense to contact your House Rep for your town.
FYI House District 2 covers Gilford and Meredith, your House Reps are:
Glen C. Aldrich: 343 Old Lakeshore Road Lot 43 Gilford, NH 03249-6598
Harry H. Bean: 234 Saltmarsh Pond Road Gilford, 03249-7567
Deanna E. Jurius: 49 Stoney Brook Road Meredith, NH 03253-4707
Jonathan D. Mackie: 20 Campground Road Meredith, NH 03253

If I have inaccurately mis-stated anything here, please feel free to chime in.......
Just be aware the current language of the bill as it sits amended is this is NOT a mandatory fee, it is establishing a voluntary "donation".

The original language of the bill did wish to establish a mandatory fee.
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Old 01-06-2020, 04:52 PM   #105
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Just be aware the current language of the bill as it sits amended is this is NOT a mandatory fee, it is establishing a voluntary "donation".

The original language of the bill did wish to establish a mandatory fee.
It may be a 'voluntary donation", as written, if the bill passes, but that allows a foot in the door, which could be changed at a later date to 'mandatory'.
Do you honestly want to take that chance? Squash the bill in it's current state.

I'm not cynical, but I don't don't believe everything the govt .tells me......
When it comes to looking for new sources of revenue, the govt will come knocking and look under every rock, this is just one of those potential rocks !
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Old 01-06-2020, 05:01 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog View Post
It may be a 'voluntary donation", as written, if the bill passes, but that allows a foot in the door, which could be changed at a later date to 'mandatory'.
Do you honestly want to take that chance? Squash the bill in it's current state.

I'm not cynical, but I don't don't believe everything the govt .tells me......
When it comes to looking for new sources of revenue, the govt will come knocking and look under every rock, this is just one of those potential rocks !
I completely agree and said as much earlier in this discussion but if you're going to engage your representative it's probably good to know the current language as amended.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:46 PM   #107
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I completely agree and said as much earlier in this discussion but if you're going to engage your representative it's probably good to know the current language as amended.
It could be weeks before the committee reports, with or without the amendment, or some other amendment. Better at this point to advocate for or against something more generic. Should yakkers participate in the costs of ramps or not? How the committee gets there is a secondary issue. Or should the original bill pass and support milfoil control and MP?

Bill as proposed: Yakkers pay for Milfoil control and MP?
Bill as amendment: Yakkers pay for more ramp access/maintenance.
third option: Kill everything and yakkers let power boats pay for everything.
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Old 01-07-2020, 04:05 AM   #108
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A gallon of gas now goes for about 2.33/gal here in NH.

The federal tax/gal is 18.4 cents.

New Hampshire state gas tax is 23.8 cents/gal.

Vermont state gas tax is 31.8 cents/gal.

Maine state gas tax is 30.0 cents/gal.

Massachusetts state gas tax is 26.5 cents/gal.

With many cars getting better gas mileage, say 30-miles/gal, a gallon goes further than it used to go, so maybe New Hampshire could raise the state gas tax from 23.8 up to 25.0 as a serious good way to help pay for roads, bridges, sidewalks, state police, local police, snow removal, and boat ramps.

And, eliminate the boat gas tax refund.
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Old 01-07-2020, 08:40 AM   #109
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A gallon of gas now goes for about 2.33/gal here in NH

And, eliminate the boat gas tax refund.
The gas tax is classified as a road use tax. It also applies to any off road equipment such as bulldozers and cranes. The law would have to be changed for that to happen and there would be substantial opposition to that change.

It would also have to take into consideration the laws regarding dyed fuel. Fuel high in sulfur and sold for uses off the road is blue; fuel low in sulfur and sold largely for tax-exempt off highway uses is red. You could expect substantial opposition from the construction industry and their lobbyists.

There was one company that got state approval (not NH) to run two fuel tanks with different fuels. When the air brake parking button was popped it automatically switched to the non-taxed fuel tank. When the brakes were released it switched back to the taxed fuel. Interesting concept.
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Old 01-07-2020, 01:44 PM   #110
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Red fuel is also home heating oil. Big issues 10 years ago with heating oil companies bringing the hose around to fill their delivery trucks.


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Old 01-07-2020, 03:29 PM   #111
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Posted on my town's Facebook page:

Update on that proposed bill to require a 4 foot flag on kayaks from my committee chair.

"I am pleased to report that HB1593 has been withdrawn by the sponsor. No bill to require flags on kayaks will be introduced into the House this session."

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Old 01-07-2020, 07:33 PM   #112
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This thread made my head spin. While I understand the two sides to all the arguments, so of the excuses, and some of statements made here are not fully evolved.

As it appears the flag Bill has been withdrawn, I am not going to discuss that issue.....

But I do want to talk a bit about the canoe / Kayak decal which has come up numerous times in the past. And it never seems to happen, much like the plan a few years back to make people get a decal for swim rafts. Most times bill like these are put in the docket to appease someone... They stir up a little controversy and then disappear. They would disappear quicker and more permanently if people argued correctly, but most often they do not. As is the case in this thread, boat registrations are brought up, the comparison is not apples to apples.

Yes at one time, NH didn't recognize out of state boat registration. Then NH got told if you don't fall inline with the Federal Government, you are going to loose federal monies. The federal government wanted full reciprocity between states on boating registration, just as had been done on other vehicles. However boats carry an unique stipulation, that you have to register them in the location where they are most often used. This was done to protect states like NH from loosing to much revenue. So with that bit of history aside lets talk about the registering of paddle craft.

Why does this get brought up. Well generally it is because the subset of lake users that paddle on the water ways, generally are not paying anything to do so, right wrong or indifferent. However if a kayak goes missing or ends up in trouble in the middle of the lake, the expect and rightfully so services from Fish and Game, or the MP. Many times when this subject comes up you find power boaters yelling and screaming that they have to pay to play, so why shouldn't others. What the state has to determine, is how much revenue do they gain vs. how much will the loose if they enact a fee on paddlers. The last time I saw this debated, it was a quick decision, that they would likely loose more room and meals tax money they they would gain fee money, because of such as use fee. At something like 9.5% meals and room tax it doesn't take long to get to 10 dollars......

Do the math think it through it just doesn't make sense...... If people would stop screaming about how unfair it is that paddlers don't have to pay anything, this would probably never come up again.
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Old 01-07-2020, 08:31 PM   #113
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If I had 10 kayaks and had to pay $10 to register each one, I would probably sell 8 or 9 of them.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:51 AM   #114
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This sounds remarkably similar to what thinkxingu suggested in post #79.

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Sorry, didn't read all the posts, just skimmed through them to try to catch up. But yes, that is exactly what I was talking about. It just makes sense for what is being suggested.
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Old 01-08-2020, 11:21 AM   #115
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Under 12' a sailboat without a motor doesn't get registered.

I have a C&L Echo sailboat that is 11' 11 3/4" length so it does not have to get registered because it is less than 12' and has no motor. The rudder is not added when measuring the length, it is just the hull.

Between 12' and 20' and without a motor, a sailboat is required to get an annual NH registration that costs about $40/year and displaying either the yearly sticker or the sticker and the bow numbers is okay.

Seemingly, this proposed kayak law would lower the registration fee for sailboats 12' to 20' without a motor from $40 down to $10 per year.

In actual practice, it is not too unusual for NH sailboats, size 12'-16' without a motor to go without an annual registration sticker for years and never ever get stopped? ...
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