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Old 05-02-2021, 12:55 AM   #101
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On the main topic of this thread, the house at Hauser Estates appears to have closed at a price of $3M. Which still seems a few standard deviations above sane, even for this current climate. To be fair, Iíve never seen the property in person, but for $3M (vs. other things in that price range on the lake), it must show VERY well. Or else thereís something really unique about the site for future expansion or similar.

Shrug. As a recent lake owner, hereís hoping this is a new normal, I guessÖ


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Exactly what I said it would close at.
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:40 AM   #102
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Exactly what I said it would close at.
Yeah, good call. Your "1.6x assessed value" heuristic was a good call, gotta keep that one in mind.
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Old 05-02-2021, 07:45 PM   #103
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I know the waterfront prices on Winni look crazy but they are really not when you compare them to top lakes in other parts of the country. It's a bargain compared to Lake Tahoe.
Just got back from a week at Lake Coeur d'Alene ID and I'd say lake front properties are 15 - 20% higher there. It's a beautiful area but I'd take Lake Winni any day!!
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Old 05-27-2021, 11:49 AM   #104
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OK, so the place directly accross the street from me on Lake waukewan, an A frame built in the 60's, just went on the market for 1.5 million. The lady bought it last June for 550K and completely remodeled it, but it's still an A frame. I'm guessing she put 400K into it. I know when she first bought it she was getting estimates around 300K but 6 months in she told me the price jumped considerably. It was completely gutted and a new 3 bedroom septic installed. This market just keeps getting crazier!

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Old 05-27-2021, 12:29 PM   #105
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Just got back from a week at Lake Coeur d'Alene ID and I'd say lake front properties are 15 - 20% higher there. It's a beautiful area but I'd take Lake Winni any day!!
Ah but you have to look at the entire picture not just sale price. Property taxes out there are a fraction of what they are here so while the cost to get in may be higher the cost to carry is far lower. So long term a better value in my opinion even with a higher sale price. That is what keeps property prices here to some degree in check as they are very high comparatively speaking with a few exceptions. They (Idaho) also have the homestead exemption on primary residences which lowers the total assessed tax value. The calculation is 50% of assessed value capped at 100k in total reduction. Due to the increase in property values they are looking to increase the cap amount or have it adjust based on average market conditions year to year.

It is a beautiful area out there.
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Old 05-27-2021, 12:56 PM   #106
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I just read an article on Idaho that said there was a big influx of remote workers from California moving in making property prices sky rocket so it won't be long before property taxes follow suit.

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Old 05-27-2021, 01:09 PM   #107
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True but unlike places like Denver or Salt Lake City which also have experienced the same kind of growth, Idaho lacks industry outside of agriculture and mining. So once those remote jobs disappear folks are going to be holding very expensive property and a local economy that canít support the rising costs - it will have to adjust just like everywhere else. I mean the average income in Boise is 31k a year where average houses are fetching well into the 400s something has to give.
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Old 08-05-2021, 06:10 PM   #108
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Default Another fishing expedition?

So new listing just up, 46 Rum Point Rd, Alton. Asking $3M for 2 bed, 1 bath, 1100 sq. ft.

Has that feel of another cash grab while the market is hot...but maybe I'm missing something about the property's appeal, I don't know Alton bay super well.

Any predictions on this one, mswlogo?
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Old 08-05-2021, 06:24 PM   #109
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A large lot with a grandfathered footprint and 800 ft of waterfront on a point. That one is all about the lot.
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Old 08-05-2021, 09:09 PM   #110
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I was talking to a realtor last weekend and he said the market has started to show signs of peaking. He said people are still over pricing but buyers aren't over bidding anymore. He also said in all his years of selling property in the lakes region he has never seen so many cash sales.
I know a few places in my neighborhood that sold below asking but their asking prices were astronomically high to begin with.
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Old 08-05-2021, 09:30 PM   #111
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....just wait to see what happens to Real Estate prices when the stock market starts heading south.
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Old 08-05-2021, 10:25 PM   #112
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....just wait to see what happens to Real Estate prices when the stock market starts heading south.
In 2017, the DJIA was starting at ~17000. It is now almost at 36000. So it drops 15% to 26000. Temporarily. We're all still way ahead. People will likely still be fleeing NY,NJ, CT. Waterfront will still be valuable. Buy whatever you can on the smaller lakes now. Comparatively, Ossipee and Newfound are probably cheap.
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Old 08-05-2021, 11:46 PM   #113
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Housing actually leads the market.
It only seems the other way around because real estate is not valued minute to minute through the weekday.

As stated housing is very effected by location... so some will see softening prices long before others. And different sections of the housing market will act differently throughout the cycle.
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Old 08-06-2021, 09:25 AM   #114
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What's happening is because of extremely low interest rates and the run up in the stock market people are taking money out of their primary residences and buying second homes in cash at an alarming rate.
When we have a recession, and we will have one again, what will people do to save their primary residence from foreclosure if they can't keep up the payments? Do they sell their primary residence which could have a bigger mortgage than the sale would bring in or do they sell their second home with no mortgage for less than what they paid for it?
In past recessions vacation area's got hit the hardest and recovered the slowest but we are in a place where we've never been before in our economy so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Old 08-06-2021, 10:53 AM   #115
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What's happening is because of extremely low interest rates and the run up in the stock market people are taking money out of their primary residences and buying second homes in cash at an alarming rate.
When we have a recession, and we will have one again, what will people do to save their primary residence from foreclosure if they can't keep up the payments? Do they sell their primary residence which could have a bigger mortgage than the sale would bring in or do they sell their second home with no mortgage for less than what they paid for it?
In past recessions vacation area's got hit the hardest and recovered the slowest but we are in a place where we've never been before in our economy so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Great post.

Another thing to add to the unique situation is since the 2008 real estate crash is a lot of builders got out or went bankrupt. So there is a shortage of housing in general. Itís pretty hot in lots of places besides vacation areas. The low supply is a big part of rising prices.

A lot depends on ďPandemic 2.0Ē, and right now thatís not looking good at all.

I think a normal recession would not be so bad. But we could see the worst economic crisis ever a year from now if we see another COVID winter like the last. I think there is a 50-50 chance of that happening.
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Old 08-06-2021, 01:44 PM   #116
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Great post.

Another thing to add to the unique situation is since the 2008 real estate crash is a lot of builders got out or went bankrupt. So there is a shortage of housing in general. It’s pretty hot in lots of places besides vacation areas. The low supply is a big part of rising prices.

A lot depends on “Pandemic 2.0”, and right now that’s not looking good at all.

I think a normal recession would not be so bad. But we could see the worst economic crisis ever a year from now if we see another COVID winter like the last. I think there is a 50-50 chance of that happening.
A lot of these younger home buyers, under 35, haven't experienced a real down turn in their working careers. How prepared are they when they lose their job and no one is hiring, will they panic sell?
I think it is more likely people still try to unload their second homes to try and save their primary home. When that happens inventory sky rockets, no one can afford to buy, and prices fall.
Just how far they fall depends on the length of the down turn and how long people can hold on.
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Old 08-06-2021, 06:55 PM   #117
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Not sure that there are a lot of 35 year old people taking money out of their primary home to buy a second home - maybe pulling money from their retirement accounts.
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Old 08-06-2021, 07:11 PM   #118
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A lot of these younger home buyers, under 35, haven't experienced a real down turn in their working careers. How prepared are they when they lose their job and no one is hiring, will they panic sell?
I think it is more likely people still try to unload their second homes to try and save their primary home. When that happens inventory sky rockets, no one can afford to buy, and prices fall.
Just how far they fall depends on the length of the down turn and how long people can hold on.
There are also a whole lot of people who have already forgotten what things were like in '08-'xx. Case in point: friends of ours just pulled out a ton of money from their home equity that will probably put them under water when values level off AND extended their loan to 30 again, putting the payoff ten years or so AFTER retirement. Crazy stuff, and here I am trying to be debt-free by 50 (won't happen, but it'll be close!).

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Old 08-06-2021, 07:16 PM   #119
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My wife and I are fairly successful 37 and 36 year olds w three kids and I wouldn't have even close to enough money to pull out of my primary home to purchase a house on the lake haha! As a matter of fact it could be 100% paid off and I still would only be purchasing one of the vacant lots on Rattlesnake right now...

Now if I wasn't paying full time day care for three kids maybe I'd have a shot!
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Old 08-06-2021, 08:07 PM   #120
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What's happening is because of extremely low interest rates and the run up in the stock market people are taking money out of their primary residences and buying second homes in cash at an alarming rate.
When we have a recession, and we will have one again, what will people do to save their primary residence from foreclosure if they can't keep up the payments? Do they sell their primary residence which could have a bigger mortgage than the sale would bring in or do they sell their second home with no mortgage for less than what they paid for it?
In past recessions vacation area's got hit the hardest and recovered the slowest but we are in a place where we've never been before in our economy so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
I’m sorry but where exactly are you getting this statistic from? I find it extremely hard to believe people are pulling enough equity from there primary homes to buy a vacation home around the lake for cash. Maybe pulling equity out for a down payment I could easily see but enough to buy here in cash is highly unlikely for most.


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Old 08-06-2021, 10:46 PM   #121
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If you're buying, selling, financing real estate (or your boat) based on info on this Forum, you need to re-think your plans. Talk to YOUR OWN CPA, and investment advisor. If you have only ONE, you are probably under-advised. At the same time, you need some self-education so you're not paying these folks 1% each for overlapping advice. And note that Fisher investments and similar, who has a lot of convincing commercials, charges twice what you pay to many brokers who offer many more services through related banks.
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Old 08-07-2021, 06:40 AM   #122
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If you're buying, selling, financing real estate (or your boat) based on info on this Forum, you need to re-think your plans. Talk to YOUR OWN CPA, and investment advisor. If you have only ONE, you are probably under-advised. At the same time, you need some self-education so you're not paying these folks 1% each for overlapping advice. And note that Fisher investments and similar, who has a lot of convincing commercials, charges twice what you pay to many brokers who offer many more services through related banks.
Amen !!!! Very well said!


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Old 08-07-2021, 08:34 AM   #123
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I’m sorry but where exactly are you getting this statistic from? I find it extremely hard to believe people are pulling enough equity from there primary homes to buy a vacation home around the lake for cash. Maybe pulling equity out for a down payment I could easily see but enough to buy here in cash is highly unlikely for most.


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This whole house of cards will fall when the next recession hits. No one ever really knows what causes them until after they hit but it will happen. It's unfortunate but there are winners and losers when the dust settles.
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Old 08-07-2021, 09:05 AM   #124
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My wife and I are fairly successful 37 and 36 year olds w three kids and I wouldn't have even close to enough money to pull out of my primary home to purchase a house on the lake haha! As a matter of fact it could be 100% paid off and I still would only be purchasing one of the vacant lots on Rattlesnake right now...

Now if I wasn't paying full time day care for three kids maybe I'd have a shot!
I didn't say they are all buying multi million dollar lakefront homes. Not everyone can afford the vacation home of their dreams.
There are still modest affordable vacation homes in the mountains and around the smaller lakes of NH. Each family has to buy to their level of ability.
I know of a couple around your age with 3 small kids that just bought a 2br camp with beach rights on lake Ossipee with cash from their the refi of their primary residence.

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Old 08-07-2021, 10:43 AM   #125
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I’m sorry but where exactly are you getting this statistic from? I find it extremely hard to believe people are pulling enough equity from there primary homes to buy a vacation home around the lake for cash. Maybe pulling equity out for a down payment I could easily see but enough to buy here in cash is highly unlikely for most.


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I know this is a Lake Winnipesaukee forum but I don't believe I said everyone is buying vacation homes around Lake Winni with cash from their primary home.
A vacation home can be anywhere people go to vacation. The economy doesn't revolve around just NH.
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Old 08-07-2021, 11:55 AM   #126
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I know this is a Lake Winnipesaukee forum but I don't believe I said everyone is buying vacation homes around Lake Winni with cash from their primary home.
A vacation home can be anywhere people go to vacation. The economy doesn't revolve around just NH.
OK that’s fine it’s not New Hampshire it’s all over the country but you show me where you found the statistics that say most people are cashing out the equity in their primary residence to buy vacation homes for cash. I just don’t think it’s true. honestly I think it’s nonsense.

And we could all speculate on whether they’ll be a recession or a large correction and the prices of real estate will plummet none of us knows for sure and as we seen recently the government and businesses alike including banks will do everything they can to try to avoid going into an extended term recession.


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Old 08-07-2021, 12:17 PM   #127
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OK that’s fine it’s not New Hampshire it’s all over the country but you show me where you found the statistics that say most people are cashing out the equity in their primary residence to buy vacation homes for cash. I just don’t think it’s true. honestly I think it’s nonsense.

And we could all speculate on whether they’ll be a recession or a large correction and the prices of real estate will plummet none of us knows for sure and as we seen recently the government and businesses alike including banks will do everything they can to try to avoid going into an extended term recession.


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I'm sorry I can't give you statistical proof. I get my information from my best friends son who is one of the top 50 residential mortgage brokers in the country, he works through Leader Bank in Needham Ma. He tells me where the money is going and I believe him.

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Old 08-07-2021, 12:20 PM   #128
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I'm sorry I can't give you statistical proof. I get my information from my best friends son who is one of the top 50 mortgage brokers in the country, he works through Leader Bank in Needham Ma. He made almost 3 million dollars writing mortgages in 2020. He tells me where the money is going and I believe him.
Your source is one person really? I put no faith in that whatsoever. When you come back with some real statistics then we can continue the conversation


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Old 08-07-2021, 12:26 PM   #129
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Your source is one person really? I put no faith in that whatsoever. When you come back with some real statistics then we can continue the conversation


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We don't need to continue this conversation. We really don't see eye to eye on many things.
You're free to believe what and who you want as am I.
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Old 08-07-2021, 12:47 PM   #130
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I know this is a Lake Winnipesaukee forum but I don't believe I said everyone is buying vacation homes around Lake Winni with cash from their primary home.
A vacation home can be anywhere people go to vacation. The economy doesn't revolve around just NH.
One other thing folks keep forgetting.

A "Cash" offer does NOT mean the buyer has the cash sitting in their checking account.

All it means they are willing to write the contract with no contingency for a bank loan approval. With high demand it was often a necessity if you wanted a property to make a "cash" offer. I've done "cash" offers with every intention of getting a loan and I was confident I'd qualify for the loan and had more than enough down payment that would cover a low appraisel.

In the past you could save money making a "cash" offer because that was a more secure offer to the seller than a higher financed offer.

Although some sellers now demand that you have "proof of funds". But that does not mean you have to use those funds you used as proof. You could show them your retirement account and then go get a loan.

So nobody knows how all these homes were actually financed. Only what was written on the contract, which is totally irrelevant.

But I will say, there are a lot of people with a lot of cash.

I've "financed" every way imaginable Including have a bank loan approval on the contract when I intended to pay cash.

The only thing really required is you show up with a check on closing day. Where the money comes from and what was on the contract could be any thing.

My guess is 1/3 of the "cash" purchases were true cash purchases. They could have sold another property (possible with a bridge loan), refinance another property or did a standard mortgage. My guess is they surely had hefty down payments on hand though.

Also with the Septic Assessment requirement for water front, you can walk away from any contract if you just don't like the assessment. Most buyers don't know that though. So there is little risk in making a cash offer initially. And the assessment is technically not due until closing !!

For our last purchase I had money from a sale (that had no mortgage), but not enough to cover the new home. But I made cash offers well over what I had in cash. We had a good sized equity loan on our primary with no balance (great advice someone once gave me). So I just used that. But the seller demanded showing we had the cash so I showed them our IRA, which I never used. It's all fun and games.
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Old 08-07-2021, 01:16 PM   #131
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One other thing folks keep forgetting.

A "Cash" offer does NOT mean the buyer has the cash sitting in their checking account.

All it means they are willing to write the contract with no contingency for a bank loan approval. With high demand it was often a necessity if you wanted a property to make a "cash" offer. I've done "cash" offers with every intention of getting a loan and I was confident I'd qualify for the loan and had more than enough down payment that would cover a low appraisel.

In the past you could save money making a "cash" offer because that was a more secure offer to the seller than a higher financed offer.

Although some sellers now demand that you have "proof of funds". But that does not mean you have to use those funds you used as proof. You could show them your retirement account and then go get a loan.

So nobody knows how all these homes were actually financed. Only what was written on the contract, which is totally irrelevant.

But I will say, there are a lot of people with a lot of cash.

I've "financed" every way imaginable Including have a bank loan approval on the contract when I intended to pay cash.

The only thing really required is you show up with a check on closing day. Where the money comes from and what was on the contract could be any thing.

My guess is 1/3 of the "cash" purchases were true cash purchases. They could have sold another property (possible with a bridge loan), refinance another property or did a standard mortgage. My guess is they surely had hefty down payments on hand though.

Also with the Septic Assessment requirement for water front, you can walk away from any contract if you just don't like the assessment. Most buyers don't know that though. So there is little risk in making a cash offer initially. And the assessment is technically not due until closing !!

For our last purchase I had money from a sale (that had no mortgage), but not enough to cover the new home. But I made cash offers well over what I had in cash. We had a good sized equity loan on our primary with no balance (great advice someone once gave me). So I just used that. But the seller demanded showing we had the cash so I showed them our IRA, which I never used. It's all fun and games.
Exactly, many cash offers are financed after the sale is made. No one really knows where all the money comes from other than the person writing the check.
When I said people are taking money out of their primary homes to buy vacation homes in cash it doesn't mean that all the money is coming from there but people have been tapping their home equity to the max because of these low rates that we may never see again. Many people are in debt to the max with the rates this low. Is it wise, only time will tell.
I'm just happy I don't have to worry about debt any more. I do have to admit though, that if I was younger I would be taking advantage of these low rates also because they will only go up from here.
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Old 08-07-2021, 01:41 PM   #132
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We don't need to continue this conversation. We really don't see eye to eye on many things.
You're free to believe what and who you want as am I.
Yes you are free to believe what you want but I do find it hypocritical when somebody post something you don’t believe you always ask for back up statistics and then the one time I ask for back up statistics and you can’t produce them. Have a great day


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Old 08-07-2021, 01:57 PM   #133
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Yes you are free to believe what you want but I do find it hypocritical when somebody post something you don’t believe you always ask for back up statistics and then the one time I ask for back up statistics and you can’t produce them. Have a great day


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I don't ask for statistics because I don't have faith in where they come from. I'm old school and believe in people I've had business relationships with through the years.
I think we're done here.
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Old 08-07-2021, 02:04 PM   #134
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Maybe this has already been mentioned in this thread, according to www.zillow.com this 105 Hauser Estates Rd, 1.66-acres with 200 feet waterfront, $3,995,000-asking price in Moultonborough was sold on April 23, 2021 for three million dollars. Was maybe listed in November, 2020?

Does Hauser Estates Rd get snow plowed by the town?

Does it get town trash pick-up?

Is there town water and sewer service?

Is there internet/tv service available?

How long a drive to the Market Basket and Walmart in Pymouth, NH? ...... 25-miles and 41-minutes drive ......probably driving Rt 25-B in Center Harbor and Rt 175 in Holderness/Ashland to get to Plymouth.

One thing is for sure about MoultonboroUGH .......MoultonboroUGH is a looooong waaaaaay from everywhere ....... is why MoultonboroUGH is spelled with an UGH! You ever notice that there's no UGH in Tuftonboro or Wolfeboro ...... so, why is that!
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Old 08-07-2021, 05:24 PM   #135
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I'm sorry I can't give you statistical proof. I get my information from my best friends son who is one of the top 50 residential mortgage brokers in the country, he works through Leader Bank in Needham Ma. He made almost 3 million dollars writing mortgages in 2020. He tells me where the money is going and I believe him.
If I were paying cash for something, my broker might know, but I would have no reason to be in contact with a mortgage banker. If I'm using a HELOC for any purpose, I don't have to specify intended use when I open up the line of credit. When I bought a property this spring, I was (almost) able to do a wire transfer from Fidelity to the title company's escrow account. (The transaction was over the online limit, so I had to confirm with "the next representative" who happened to be in Dallas. 2 minutes. No mortgage officer would have any way of knowing about this transaction. He could get anecdotal, second hand information from a title company.
Leader Bank, only founded in 2002, lists three MA locations on their website and no reference to being licensed in other locales. That makes your young friend immeasurably impressive to be one of the top 50 in the country.
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Old 08-07-2021, 08:27 PM   #136
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If I were paying cash for something, my broker might know, but I would have no reason to be in contact with a mortgage banker. If I'm using a HELOC for any purpose, I don't have to specify intended use when I open up the line of credit. When I bought a property this spring, I was (almost) able to do a wire transfer from Fidelity to the title company's escrow account. (The transaction was over the online limit, so I had to confirm with "the next representative" who happened to be in Dallas. 2 minutes. No mortgage officer would have any way of knowing about this transaction. He could get anecdotal, second hand information from a title company.
Leader Bank, only founded in 2002, lists three MA locations on their website and no reference to being licensed in other locales. That makes your young friend immeasurably impressive to be one of the top 50 in the country.
Look him up, Keith Hapenney. His resume is impressive.

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Old 08-08-2021, 12:28 AM   #137
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Maybe this has already been mentioned in this thread, according to www.zillow.com this 105 Hauser Estates Rd, 1.66-acres with 200 feet waterfront, $3,995,000-asking price in Moultonborough was sold on April 23, 2021 for three million dollars. Was maybe listed in November, 2020?

Does Hauser Estates Rd get snow plowed by the town?

Does it get town trash pick-up?

Is there town water and sewer service?

Is there internet/tv service available?

How long a drive to the Market Basket and Walmart in Pymouth, NH? ...... 25-miles and 41-minutes drive ......probably driving Rt 25-B in Center Harbor and Rt 175 in Holderness/Ashland to get to Plymouth.

One thing is for sure about MoultonboroUGH .......MoultonboroUGH is a looooong waaaaaay from everywhere ....... is why MoultonboroUGH is spelled with an UGH! You ever notice that there's no UGH in Tuftonboro or Wolfeboro ...... so, why is that!
Youíre right about Moultonborough being far from everything, especially some parts. We looked at a few properties and ruled it out for some of the reasons you listed.

But as far as Water and Sewerage. I prefer a Well and Septic. Towns rip you off on that service. I have Septic in MA with a sewer line going right by. It would cost a fortune just for the permit, never mind the actual work. And once hooked up they double your water bill.
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Old 08-08-2021, 05:34 AM   #138
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Youíre right about Moultonborough being far from everything, especially some parts. We looked at a few properties and ruled it out for some of the reasons you listed.

But as far as Water and Sewerage. I prefer a Well and Septic. Towns rip you off on that service. I have Septic in MA with a sewer line going right by. It would cost a fortune just for the permit, never mind the actual work. And once hooked up they double your water bill.
IIRC, you bought lakefront on New Hampshire's most pristine large lake.

Why saddle oneself with rust stains, chemical shocking, Radon and arsenic content, when especially good water is available with minimal treatment? (If any).

I don't expect Town Sewerage to be available in our lifetimes, but they can't double your lakewater bill. (Though I expect they'll find a way).
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Old 08-08-2021, 07:03 AM   #139
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Youíre right about Moultonborough being far from everything, especially some parts. We looked at a few properties and ruled it out for some of the reasons you listed.

But as far as Water and Sewerage. I prefer a Well and Septic. Towns rip you off on that service. I have Septic in MA with a sewer line going right by. It would cost a fortune just for the permit, never mind the actual work. And once hooked up they double your water bill.
I grew up in a town that had no town sewer. Every house was on their own septic system. If they ran sewer by my house and offered a free hookup I would have said no. Pumping the tank every 5 years or so at a cost of about $200 was way cheaper.

In Gilford we have town sewer and I use water from the lake. The quarterly sewer bills are only in the $90 range. Free water and low sewer bills are a great deal.
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Old 08-08-2021, 10:42 AM   #140
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You do not have a choice on sewer hook-up. It is at the discretion of the municipality under a waiver.

https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files...ents/web-1.pdf
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Old 08-08-2021, 11:29 AM   #141
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Most communities will give you an initial hook up deal, special price and let you pay it over time interest free. I doubt they would force you to hook up unless your septic wasn't up to snuff, which would be on you to prove. So if you have an old system it would wise for you to hook up. I some cases it will make your property more valuable. If you only have a 2 bedroom septic system and you hook up to a sewer system now when you go to sell that restriction is lifted.
If you don't take the initial deal and you want to hook up at a later date then you're going to pay though the nose.
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Old 08-08-2021, 11:39 AM   #142
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IIRC, you bought lakefront on New Hampshire's most pristine large lake.

Why saddle oneself with rust stains, chemical shocking, Radon and arsenic content, when especially good water is available with minimal treatment? (If any).

I don't expect Town Sewerage to be available in our lifetimes, but they can't double your lakewater bill. (Though I expect they'll find a way).
I’ve had Well water at 3 locations. Only issue at all 3 was iron which is easily removed. Just had a well put in an it’s great. Town water around here (not available where I’m at) is ok. Most town systems need some sort of “treatment”.

I have a gareden and lawn I water back in MA with a fairly good size water bill and most of it is not going down the drain. But sewer would double the bill. I think it would cost $10k or more just to be allowed to hook up. Price keeps going up. And then $10-20k to actually hook in. So it could cost $20-$40k and double my water bill. Vs $200 to pump every few years.

You are not required to hook up. Probably if building new or septic needed replacement yes. But they don’t force you to disconnect from a working septic. I doubt any town does that. But possibly in very problematic area they do.
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Old 08-08-2021, 11:46 AM   #143
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The ''deal'' is usually based on the road to lay the pipes and the equipment to dig, etc is already there. If you do it later, you entail the entire cost.

If you read the attachment, you will find that we amended the statutes about thirty years ago, and further corrected about twenty-five years ago, to allow for the waiver.

A building with a ''new'' septic system would be waived if not in a critical environmental area. They would not be forced to hook-up until the waived system failed and needed replacement or major repair. At that time, the hook-up would cost about as much as the replacement/repair.
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Old 08-08-2021, 11:47 AM   #144
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Most communities will give you an initial hook up deal, special price and let you pay it over time interest free. I doubt they would force you to hook up unless your septic wasn't up to snuff, which would be on you to prove. So if you have an old system it would wise for you to hook up. I some cases it will make your property more valuable. If you only have a 2 bedroom septic system and you hook up to a sewer system now when you go to sell that restriction is lifted.
If you don't take the initial deal and you want to hook up at a later date then you're going to pay though the nose.
Exactly. Iím long past the good deal phase in MA.
If they allowed hook up for free and the town itself could hook in for a good price I might do it. Say if total was under $10k I probably would.
But the early ďincentiveĒ is now working against them.
My system was installed in the 70ís. Itís only my wife and I on a 3 bedroom system for the last 20 years.
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Old 08-08-2021, 12:03 PM   #145
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Iíve had Well water at 3 locations. Only issue at all 3 was iron which is easily removed. Just had a well put in an itís great. Town water around here (not available where Iím at) is ok. Most town systems need some sort of ďtreatmentĒ.

I have gareden and lawn I water back in MA with a fairly good size water bill and most of it is not going down the drain. But sewer would double the bill. I think it would cost $10k or more just to be allowed to hook up. Price keeps going up. And then $10-20k to actually hook in. So it could cost $20-$40k and double my water bill. Vs $200 to pump every few years.

You are not required to hook up. Probably if building new or septic needed replacement yes. But they donít force you to disconnect from a working septic. I doubt any town does that. But possibly in very problematic area they do.
Water treatment in this area is generally reverse osmosis with UV treatment. It is the most cost effective system with Laconia having the building and system built so that it could easily double or triple current output. The lake water is removed from Paugus and treated.

Our well systems generally put out iron (staining) and calcium (water spots)... hard water... but some location have organic matter and can experience soft water conditions that need to be resolved. Simple test kits exist for each.

We can get doses of arsenic or leaching of various distillate derivatives, but that is rather rare. Radon is generally only a situation with an artisan well, as the granite can embedded the water with it... but other than on the map (https://www.dhhs.nh.gov/dphs/radon/d...don-map-nh.pdf) would be rare... with odds increasing on whether the home is really tight (low air exchange) and has a basement/cellar or a crawl space.

It would be doubtful to be able to purchase a home in a low density area, not on a water body, that had the option of municipal water and sewer.
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Old 08-08-2021, 12:07 PM   #146
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Exactly. I’m long past the good deal phase in MA.
If they allowed hook up for free and the town itself could hook in for a good price I might do it. Say if total was under $10k I probably would.
But the early “incentive” is now working against them.
My system was installed in the 70’s. It’s only my wife and I on a 3 bedroom system for the last 20 years.
I'm on Waukewan, which is Meredith's drinking water. They have done studies on extending the sewer to my neighborhood. I doubt I will be around to see it but my 2 bedroom system is over 30 years old and even though it's working fine I would jump at the chance to hook up. The road in is a half mile dirt road so if they put sewer in they would most likely pave it also and then I would pave my driveway, a win/win.
The value would go up dramatically as I have 4 sleeping areas so now it becomes a 4 bedroom home.
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Old 08-08-2021, 01:23 PM   #147
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A lot of it will depend on the sewage plants down the line.
Waukewan and Winona, along with smaller tributaries, are part of a watershed protection area... so they are very careful.
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Old 08-08-2021, 05:51 PM   #148
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Water treatment in this area is generally reverse osmosis with UV treatment. It is the most cost effective system with Laconia having the building and system built so that it could easily double or triple current output. The lake water is removed from Paugus and treated.

Our well systems generally put out iron (staining) and calcium (water spots)... hard water... but some location have organic matter and can experience soft water conditions that need to be resolved. Simple test kits exist for each.

We can get doses of arsenic or leaching of various distillate derivatives, but that is rather rare. Radon is generally only a situation with an artisan well, as the granite can embedded the water with it... but other than on the map (https://www.dhhs.nh.gov/dphs/radon/d...don-map-nh.pdf) would be rare... with odds increasing on whether the home is really tight (low air exchange) and has a basement/cellar or a crawl space.

It would be doubtful to be able to purchase a home in a low density area, not on a water body, that had the option of municipal water and sewer.
I would only use reverse osmosis as a last resort (something bad that can't be filtered out) there a quite a few negatives with it that I didn't want to deal with.

PH is great, Hardness is great and the Iron is all undissolved Iron (a lot easier to remove). I currently have a 1 micron sediment (removes most of the iron takes it from 3 ppm to about 0.3 ppm), Pentair Iron Filter (brings iron to 0 ppm good for 80K gallons), Pentair 0.5 Micro Carbon for the whole house (all 4.5" x 20" big mothers). And a Water Drop 0.01 Micron Carbon combo at the Kitchen sink for cooking and drinking.

Oh and I had to swap my anode in the hot water heater from a passive rod to an "active" one, otherwise hot water smelled like rotten eggs. Very common issue with well water.

In MA I have a 1 micron sediment filter for whole house and just the Water Drop 0.01 micro under the kitchen sink in MA on town water.

No Reverse Osmosis, No Softener and no UV needed.
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Old 08-08-2021, 05:58 PM   #149
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I'm on Waukewan, which is Meredith's drinking water. They have done studies on extending the sewer to my neighborhood. I doubt I will be around to see it but my 2 bedroom system is over 30 years old and even though it's working fine I would jump at the chance to hook up. The road in is a half mile dirt road so if they put sewer in they would most likely pave it also and then I would pave my driveway, a win/win.
The value would go up dramatically as I have 4 sleeping areas so now it becomes a 4 bedroom home.
Our last lake home was like that (tons of lake homes are) and I would jump at the chance to hook that up too and would raise it's value. It's part of the reason I sold it.

New lake house is not septic limited but is 0.4 miles in on a private dirt road. As much as I hate the dirt road at times, I would miss the campy / non residential feeling the dirt road gives.
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Old 08-08-2021, 06:08 PM   #150
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Municipal water treatment.

Homeowners in general, to my knowledge, have never gone that far.
I think I have only ever sold one RO undercounter system for drinking water.
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Old 08-08-2021, 09:13 PM   #151
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Municipal water treatment.

Homeowners in general, to my knowledge, have never gone that far.
I think I have only ever sold one RO undercounter system for drinking water.
Then what did you mean by "Water treatment in this area is generally reverse osmosis with UV treatment"

And who/what are you responding to with "Homeowners in general, to my knowledge, have never gone that far"?
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Old 08-08-2021, 09:23 PM   #152
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Municipal water treatment.

Homeowners in general, to my knowledge, have never gone that far.
I think I have only ever sold one RO undercounter system for drinking water.
We have RO in both homes--it is excellent. But I am not surprised you have sold only one. RO is very expensive compared to other filters (but very cheap compared to Poland Springs!)
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Old 08-08-2021, 10:54 PM   #153
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Then what did you mean by "Water treatment in this area is generally reverse osmosis with UV treatment"

And who/what are you responding to with "Homeowners in general, to my knowledge, have never gone that far"?
I should have stated that municipal water treatment is generally RO with UV.
Many people that are ''political'' seem to think that our local municipalities use the old tech of the places they come from.

And the second would be you... homeowners general do not go that route.

When people state direct from the lake is best, they don't realize that the municipalities draw from the lakes and then ''treat'' the water even further removing impurities. Municipal systems also have very stringent testing protocols, while as a well user... mine has only been tested three times in the last 24 years.
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Old 08-14-2021, 08:00 AM   #154
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A lot of these younger home buyers, under 35, haven't experienced a real down turn in their working careers. How prepared are they when they lose their job and no one is hiring, will they panic sell?
I think it is more likely people still try to unload their second homes to try and save their primary home. When that happens inventory sky rockets, no one can afford to buy, and prices fall.
Just how far they fall depends on the length of the down turn and how long people can hold on.
LaDaSun article regarding inventory-history and prices among older shorefront communities--examples at Patrician Shores:
https://www.laconiadailysun.com/real...f29784ad5.html

I note boat size is limited to a reasonable (for Lake Winnipesaukee) 24-feet.
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Old 08-14-2021, 05:59 PM   #155
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Most of what Frank Roche writes feels like an advertisement.
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