Mooring weight question??

[Flyfisha]

After receiving the proper permits, I plan on installing a mooring for my 192 Oday sailboat out on Rattlesnake. Any thoughts on what I can use for weight?? I have been thinking of pouring concrete into a plastic barrel with large galvanized eyebolts. I am open for suggestions. Thanks and think spring!!

[LIforrelaxin]

When considering the wieght for a mooring you need to consider the following:

1) what is the wieght of the boat....
2) what are the prevailing conditions in the area....if your on the north side of Rattlesnake where the wind can pick up you will want a more substantial mooring then if you are in a protected area.
3) do you have any thoughts of getting a larger boat that will end up on the mooring.
4) how close are other boats docks etc. to where you plan to have the mooring, if it happens to get dragged a few feet in a bad storm will it cause a problem.
5) if the anchor where to get drag, will you be able to get it back inposition

if 4 and 5 are concern, you want to make sure that the anchor is large enough to eliminate this concern....

With those things in mind, moorings need to be quite substantial... to get it in the correct location you may want to contract someone to do the work for you, such as watermark marine construction. They will be able to give you some guidance on what you should consider for weight.

Now with that said, for my uncles sail boat, we made a wieght, utilizing 3 bags of quickrete, and bent a piece of reinforcing rod, and a form to make a roughly 3' X 2' X 1' block. my guess is its wieght is around 250 lbs when we where finished, and on the northside of Long Island in a somewhat protected area, has done just fine. However even with my uncles some what light boat, we have seen the anchor get pulled in real bad storms. fortunately it is only in about 15' of water in the fall and we have always been able to slide it back into position as the bottom of the lake in the area of anchor is just sandy with no obstacles....

[evelyn]

Our blocks are around 500 pounds. We put a plastis 3 inch pipe in the center to put the chain through. If you use an eye bolt when it rots you have a solid block that you cannot get a chain on.

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by Flyfisha

After receiving the proper permits, I plan on installing a mooring for my 192 Oday sailboat out on Rattlesnake. Any thoughts on what I can use for weight?? I have been thinking of pouring concrete into a plastic barrel with large galvanized eyebolts. I am open for suggestions. Thanks and think spring!!

I'm sure you will get all kinds of advice here. I have a 175lb mushroom for my 24 foot boat in a very windy location with at times, all kinds of waves and chop. Here is a website that will help you calculate what you need for what, to me, seems reasonable cost. Remember, concrete loses something like 30% or more (someone will correct me) of it's weight in water. Imagine trying to move a 200-300 pound hunk of concrete to where you want it. A mushroom moves very easliy when standing up and gets all of it's holding power laying down. JMHO

Blue Thunder

http://www.mushroommooring.com/

[Gatto Nero]

I built mine with 3 bags of concrete, which I poured into a duck tape reinforced cardboard box. Mine is in 25' of water, and I didn't want have to do it twice, so I sunk a stainless eye bolt into the middle of it. I built the whole thing on my raft at the shore then floated it out to its final location and pushed it overboard with chain attached. I have a 24' boat at a very windy location and it has never moved as far as I can tell.

[ITD]

Keep in mind that your concrete anchor will probably weigh about 60% in water of what it weighs on land depending on the porosity of the pour and type used. In other words a 100 pound anchor will weigh about 60 pounds in the water, this is a rough estimate.

[camp guy]

In addition to the actual weight of the mooring (more is bertter), you also want to remember to provide plenty of scope for your line between the mooring and the boat. I used a substantial length of heavy chain with swivels at either end, and then a heavy nylon line to the boat. The chain will act as a shock absorber mitigating the effect of heavy winds. I agree that having a professional install the mooring may be a very wise idea.

[Formula260SS]

I've been told Granite's density over concrete makes for a higher "wet" weight, that's what mine is on the broads. No issues so far but I oly put a 24' pontoon boat on it.

[Pineedles]

I believe in FLL method whenever possible. At 42.5 lbs. and $1.59 per concrete block. (That's 25 lbs. under water), about 7 of these blocks with a stainless steel chain looped through them would cost $11.00 plus the chain, shackles, etc, would wind up costing about $50.00 for the whole setup. getting a bigger boat? Add more blocks.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Gatto Nero

I built mine with 3 bags of concrete, which I poured into a duck tape reinforced cardboard box. Mine is in 25' of water, and I didn't want have to do it twice, so I sunk a stainless eye bolt into the middle of it. I built the whole thing on my raft at the shore then floated it out to its final location and pushed it overboard with chain attached. I have a 24' boat at a very windy location and it has never moved as far as I can tell.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but stainless steel was a bad choice and you should not trust the mooring. Google "crevice corrosion on stainless steel".

[Gatto Nero]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but stainless steel was a bad choice and you should not trust the mooring. Google "crevice corrosion on stainless steel".

I Googled. Here is what I found.

"Crevice Corrosion

The corrosion resistance of a stainless steel is dependent on the presence of a protective oxide layer on its surface, but it is possible under certain conditions for this oxide layer to break down, for example in reducing acids, or in some types of combustion where the atmosphere is reducing. Areas where the oxide layer can break down can also sometimes be the result of the way components are designed, for example under gaskets, in sharp re-entrant corners or associated with incomplete weld penetration or overlapping surfaces. These can all form crevices which can promote corrosion. To function as a corrosion site, a crevice has to be of sufficient width to permit entry of the corrodent, but sufficiently narrow to ensure that the corrodent remains stagnant. Accordingly crevice corrosion usually occurs in gaps a few micrometres wide, and is not found in grooves or slots in which circulation of the corrodent is possible. This problem can often be overcome by paying attention to the design of the component, in particular to avoiding formation of crevices or at least keeping them as open as possible. Crevice corrosion is a very similar mechanism to pitting corrosion; alloys resistant to one are generally resistant to both. Crevice corrosion can be viewed as a more severe form of pitting corrosion as it will occur at significantly lower temperatures than does pitting."

Not sure I follow what the problem is. I figure my other choice was a galvanized eye and I don't see how that would be any better.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Gatto Nero

I Googled. Here is what I found.

"Crevice Corrosion

The corrosion resistance of a stainless steel is dependent on the presence of a protective oxide layer on its surface, but it is possible under certain conditions for this oxide layer to break down, for example in reducing acids, or in some types of combustion where the atmosphere is reducing. Areas where the oxide layer can break down can also sometimes be the result of the way components are designed, for example under gaskets, in sharp re-entrant corners or associated with incomplete weld penetration or overlapping surfaces. These can all form crevices which can promote corrosion. To function as a corrosion site, a crevice has to be of sufficient width to permit entry of the corrodent, but sufficiently narrow to ensure that the corrodent remains stagnant. Accordingly crevice corrosion usually occurs in gaps a few micrometres wide, and is not found in grooves or slots in which circulation of the corrodent is possible. This problem can often be overcome by paying attention to the design of the component, in particular to avoiding formation of crevices or at least keeping them as open as possible. Crevice corrosion is a very similar mechanism to pitting corrosion; alloys resistant to one are generally resistant to both. Crevice corrosion can be viewed as a more severe form of pitting corrosion as it will occur at significantly lower temperatures than does pitting."

Not sure I follow what the problem is. I figure my other choice was a galvanized eye and I don't see how that would be any better.

"To function as a corrosion site, a crevice has to be of sufficient width to permit entry of the corrodent, but sufficiently narrow to ensure that the corrodent remains stagnant."

In this situation, the water is the corrodent and the concrete allows water in but not to flow, so it remains stagnant. This makes the SS corrode very quickly and invisibly (it's invisible because the corrosion can only occur within the tight confines of the crevice, if it's plainly visible, there will be no corrosion).

Here's a nice example of a stainless bolt compared to bronze bolt:

[SIKSUKR]

Sounds like evelyn has the best set-up.I can see where more wear on the chain can occur but at least it can be seen and corrected unlike eyebolt that breaks off.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by camp guy

In addition to the actual weight of the mooring (more is bertter), you also want to remember to provide plenty of scope for your line between the mooring and the boat.

Scope is definately an important consideration. However if you are in an area where every home owner has a morning out, and docks etc. All of which have there own unique scope, it is difficult to provide proper scope with out presenting the danger of collisions.

Being able to use truely optimal scope only really works in a laid out morning field.

The issue we have with my uncles situation, is that to prevent interfearing with nieghbors moorings, and dock access, and of course our own dock access, we are not able to provide proper scope. Hence we have the issue with the block getting dragged in very severe storms.... it never drags far but we do notice it has moved.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but stainless steel was a bad choice and you should not trust the mooring. Google "crevice corrosion on stainless steel".

I hadn't heard of this before.... indeed not good....

Now the concrete block we made, with rebar has been at the bottom for ummmmm I think about 25 years now.... the chain has been replaced several times, but the rebar is still in great shape.

now someone else mentioned granite..... I have heard this is much better then concrete, and I know on Lake Champlain, is very popular for moorings....

[Pineedles]

didn't the same site being copied and pasted also say....

Crevice corrosion occurs in stainless steel and other metals when the metal is covered, but immersed in a corrosive liquid such as seawater.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

didn't the same site being copied and pasted also say....

Crevice corrosion occurs in stainless steel and other metals when the metal is covered, but immersed in a corrosive liquid such as seawater.

Trust me, rain water and lake water will do it too. Most crevice corrosion takes place well above the waterline on boats due to rain water leaking past SS fasteners and into the core of the deck or superstructure. There's very little stainless steel crevice corrosion with underwater parts because builders know not to use it wherever it would be a problem.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Scope is definately an important consideration. However if you are in an area where every home owner has a morning out, and docks etc. All of which have there own unique scope, it is difficult to provide proper scope with out presenting the danger of collisions.

Being able to use truely optimal scope only really works in a laid out morning field.

The issue we have with my uncles situation, is that to prevent interfearing with nieghbors moorings, and dock access, and of course our own dock access, we are not able to provide proper scope. Hence we have the issue with the block getting dragged in very severe storms.... it never drags far but we do notice it has moved.

If you are just using weight, not a mushroom, you can overcome some scope issues with a bigger mooring ball. The buoyancy of a bigger ball will dramatically reduce side loads on the mooring by transferring the load to a more vertical plane. It also reduces shock loads my absorbing increased tension from wave motion affecting the boat.

[Steveo]

Originally Posted by evelyn

Our blocks are around 500 pounds. We put a plastis 3 inch pipe in the center to put the chain through. If you use an eye bolt when it rots you have a solid block that you cannot get a chain on.

Since everything corrodes eventually a better way to go is put a 1" pipe in the block (when made) and put a long eyebolt through it that you secure with washer, nut and heavy brass cotter pin to keep nut from running off. Attach chain to shackle and then to the eye. This accomplishes a few thing; the corrosion will appear on the eye itself first due to the rubbing of the shackle. The eyebolt will rotate in the pipe keeping the chain from kinking. Replacement is easy when it does wear out

[Flyfisha]

I have two huge hot dipped galvanized eye bolts from a utility company. Sounds like a couple of granite blocks with drill holes for the eye bolts could do the trick. I never thought of the density factor between concrete and granite. Only too bad I couldn't make better use of some of those Rattlesnake Island NUGGETS!!!!!: Thanks again!!

[NoBozo]

Crevice corrosion is REAL. Back in the seventies, yacht builders were experimenting with Solid Rod Rigging for staying the masts on large racing yachts. Some of the rods were even elliptical in shape to be more aerodynamic. The Terminals at the ends of the rods were threaded directly onto the rods.

Picture a very expensive custom built 73' racing yacht sitting at the dock in sunny Miami....and the mast suddenly just falls over the side for no apparent reason.

Crevice Corrosion. It's actually caused by a Lack Of Oxygen in a crevice...combined with a mildly corrosive solution such as water, between the threads in the fittings. It took awhile for the exact cause to be determined.

Finally a guy who started his own rigging company, started experimenting with a Cold Heading process for attaching terminals to ROD rigging that would not be susceptible to Crevice Corrosion. The company was called NavTec. Problem solved.

BTW: ALL Galvanized chain, shackles, and fittings are far superior to Stainless Steel....on a mooring or any other ground tackle. NB

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

BTW: ALL Galvanized chain, shackles, and fittings are far superior to Stainless Steel....on a mooring or any other ground tackle. NB

My SS plow anchor looks so pretty on the roller though. I got a smokin' deal on it (cheaper than the galvanized one that was smaller) so I bought it. It's oversized for my boat, but I NEVER worry about dragging it.

[evelyn]

You can make two blocks it might be easier to handle. We like square and a few inches thick.If you put a hose over the chain that goes through and around the block it will prevent chafing. Also put a floater tied on the chain 6 ft or so up to keep the chain from draging.Your chain will wear out from draging on the bottom.

[Airwaves]

Scope and the lake bottom at your mooring site are the biggest considerations.

You could put a 1000 lbs of concrete or granite down there, but without the right scope the boat will pick it up and move it during heavy wave action (your boat can carry more than 1000lbs right?)

If you have a mud or sand bottom then I would recommend a mushroom anchor with at least 3 to 1 (more is better) ratio of scope. I used this system with a 75lb mushroom for years and never had a problem even through a couple of hurricanes. Just make sure the mushroom is lying on its side so it can dig into the bottom. (I got mine from a diver on the coast who "rescued" them off the bottom for about 45 cents a pound, they are a lot more expensive new)

I did not use stainless steel, I used galvanized but I still recommend taking it out at the end of every season for inspection and save it from ice damage.

A pickup bouy attached to your main bouy will help you tie up to the mooring.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Some math from the peanut gallery.

A hundred pound block of standard concrete would weigh about 56.5 pounds under water. (Density 2.3)

A hundred pound block of Granite would weigh about 63.6 pounds under water. (Density 2.75)

A hundred pound block or chain of stainless steel would weigh about 87.2 pounds under water. (Density 7.8)

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Dave R

My SS plow anchor looks so pretty on the roller though. I got a smokin' deal on it (cheaper than the galvanized one that was smaller) so I bought it. It's oversized for my boat, but I NEVER worry about dragging it.

I hear you Dave. Down here in Newport I see Mega Yachts all the time. They ALL have SS plow ...or Danforth type anchors. They are pretty..no doubt about it. The Mega yachts don't anchor out much.

I think the galvanized anchors have a crude..rough surface and maybe Hold better in the bottom. The SS anchors are polished and smoother, and maybe more slippery....don't really know as my experience has been with galvanized. CQR and Danforth..depending on the bottom Plenty of galvanized chain..then nylon works good. ALL chain is best if you can carry the weight foreward when cruising in salt water. NB

[fatlazyless]

For 40-bucks, www.faysboatyard.com sells a 200-lb block of nicely finished concrete with a 3/4" id pvc tube set inside for an el cheapo 3/8 or 1/2" yellow floating polyethylene mooring line to pass through. Boaters pick em up from Fay's by boat and roll the mooring block overboard onto spot-x.

X marks the spot!

No nothing to corrode, four 90-degree side long corners to catch & hold; and the concrete/pvc is warranteed good-to-go in Lake Winnipesaukee till the year 2525 by Merrill Fay, himself!

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Some math from the peanut gallery.

A hundred pound block of standard concrete would weigh about 56.5 pounds under water. (Density 2.3)

A hundred pound block of Granite would weigh about 63.6 pounds under water. (Density 2.75)

A hundred pound block or chain of stainless steel would weigh about 87.2 pounds under water. (Density 7.8)

which is exactly why a steel mushroom is the way to go....

BT

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

I hear you Dave. Down here in Newport I see Mega Yachts all the time. They ALL have SS plow ...or Danforth type anchors. They are pretty..no doubt about it. The Mega yachts don't anchor out much.

I think the galvanized anchors have a crude..rough surface and maybe Hold better in the bottom. The SS anchors are polished and smoother, and maybe more slippery....don't really know as my experience has been with galvanized. CQR and Danforth..depending on the bottom Plenty of galvanized chain..then nylon works good. ALL chain is best if you can carry the weight foreward when cruising in salt water. NB

I use 15 feet of G4 1/4" chain (it's what my windlass requires) and the rest is nylon three strand. The anchor is a 22 pounder, which would be considered a storm anchor for my 25 foot boat. It's been tested in a couple of nasty squalls and has never dragged at all.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

"...ALL Galvanized chain, shackles, and fittings are far superior to Stainless Steel..."

Not all galvanized steel (or stainless) is of high quality, so I wouldn't make that generalization: for example, I gave my BIL a one-inch solid diameter galvanized eye bolt for use in his concrete mooring block. After only about eight years in the lake, it got very ugly, and we're not trusting it another four or five years in this lake.

A ½-inch diameter galvanized U-bolt used on our original mooring block has disappeared entirely after 54 years. (Well, there are two brown spots remaining. )

As to narrow anchorages, a new Chapman NIB text—marked "100" at a yard sale, which turned out to be just $1 —suggests three mooring blocks. Two should be placed to the strongest wind direction and all three attached together with chain with a central shackle pickup point.

Chapman advises "hot-galvanized" steel, which may be that process that wrinkles the galvanized finish to a thicker coating.

Chapman also suggests switching mooring chains end-for-end each season. (Although a heavy nylon line should be fine for a 19' sailboat mooring). A friend just ½-mile from me has been using a stainless steel mooring cable—for 40 years! (For a 19' Cape Dory Typhoon sailboat).

For confirmation of the suggestion found in Chapman, check out this chain: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...06&postcount=5

Originally Posted by Dave R

"...Most crevice corrosion takes place well above the waterline on boats..."

Crevice corrosion was covered in a recent copy of Sail magazine.

Since I seek-out new (and used) stainless steel objects at every opportunity, I discovered some deep crevice corrosion on a very important object that hasn't been covered in this thread.

That piece was a boat's 2nd-hand bow eye!

[Seeker]

Where I have my mooring is a soft muddy bottom so this works well. I purchased a 4' diameter well cover about 20+ years ago from a local hardware store. After attaching a shackle, length of heavy chain to the rerod handle, swivel shackle and lighter chain and bouy I rolled it into the lake to a depth of 5' and let it go. After about 10 years the rerod was showing substantial wear so I levered up one side to break the suction and simply rolled it back to shore. I bored a hole through the cover and installed a large eyebolt and it's been fine ever since. The soft bottom is the key here and the boats are either a 3000# deep v center console or 20' pontoon boat. Has held in 60Kt winds but where I am I don't have the fetch to get large waves.
My favorites are those that use 5 gallon buckets filled with concrete and yellow poly line for their rode, then something resembling clothesline for their painter.

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

I’ve been doing commercial diving for 25 years. As part of my job is to service 50 moorings per year (37 here on the lake), do underwater investigations for insurance clams and consult on proper mooring techniques. Each mooring locals differ wildly from one to another, for the sake of keeping this brief, I’ll only comment about the Lake’s particularizes.

Lake conditions:
1) High acid concentration (tannic acid and acid rain) on the bottom of the lake due to little or no sub-currant.
2) Hard bottom (rocks, gravel, sand and clay) cover by silt.
3) Seasonal water level fluctuations (2ft. or more).
4) Seasonal idle time (chain laying on the bottom during the winter)

What works best for the Lake:
• Wide flat granite blocks with two holes drill through it (500 lbs. minimum)
• Stainless steel (8’ to 12’) looped through the holes.
• S/S swivel with S/S shackle to the nylon rode with S/S thimble (braided in and whipped).
• The rode length 1.5 times the depth with eye splice in the end of rode with proper length & size mooring bridle.
• Moring ball that is state approved with appropriate sized & length pennant with eye spliced to the rode and service shackle on ball side.

This method is by far the most expensive, but it stands the test of time. I guess you could say, “pay me now or pay me later…” How much is you boat worth??? Here’s another one for you; “Isn’t it funny how, temporary always turns to permanent.” We can go into great detail on each point made here if you like.

No, I’m not looking to do this job… I’ve got enough to do as it is, I’m just offering advice from an expert point of view.

[ApS]

In the "attached image"—at the very bottom—are this family's three D-I-Y moorings.

The center mooring is about 54 years old. Judging by the protruding rocks, it's lost part of its original concrete surface to dissolution by the lake. (Not to mention the totally-missing galvanized steel part! ).

The mooring to the left is just ten years old and had a large new galvanized eye-bolt embedded in it: It's pretty ugly today, and wouldn't go another ten years, IMHO. The galvanized chain—bought at the same time—was featured earlier and is no longer usable. (Note the difference in diameters within the same chain-length).



Both of these concrete moorings (below) are being retained today by chipping away around the center and swaging a stainless steel cable around both. The "bitter end" of the cable has been embedded in the right hand mooring, which was constructed this Autumn.

While a single mooring of the same weight as the combined weight of these three moorings would be best, the cable connects all three moorings together, which will be used in tandem).

An engineer friend suggested that iron and steel are far denser than granite and that I should embed the concrete with iron—so-o-o-o—included within the concrete matrix are dozens of iron and steel automobile discarded parts: brake discs, connecting rods, brake drums, bent bolts—even heavy fencing and broken steel tools are included.

That newest block on the right is still of concrete construction; however, to reduce any wear on our new (and expensive) stainless-steel chain, I bolted two discarded stainless-steel sinks together to form the concrete-and-iron mix.

At opposite ends of this new mooring, I bolted two bow-eyes to embedded steel connecting rods (inside the concrete pour). One bow-eye is visible at the upper right.

Both "pours" of concrete are linked together by a heavy-duty steel fire grate (within). With some effort, its tips were bent over to fit inside its stainless steel "clam shell". Now that it's finished, my BIL and I can barely lift that mooring off the dock! (My BIL, who carries refrigerators up and down stairs for a living).

One additional suggestion for all moorings is to see that they are deeply buried—if possible. In a sandy area, a water hose can be used to tunnel out and settle the mooring deeply in the sand.

Seeing that stainless steel may not be sufficiently immune to this lake's corrosive actions, I should have investigated putting a PVC "thimble" through the block. (Curved PVC, using two holes). What might prove even better against corrosion is the use of a synthetic line such as that used on sailboats: Kevlar, Spectra, Dyneema or Technora. (If not as a primary place for the mooring line—then as a passive backup).

This stuff dulls the knives that start out barely cutting it!

Oh well...the search for the perfect Lake Winnipesaukee mooring lurches ever-onward!

[NoBozo]

Other than Crevice Corrosion problems, Stainless Steel is pretty bulletproof. The problems arise when you MIX Dissimilar metals in an electrolyte..water in this case. Doesn't need to be salt water.

Lets take ONE square inch of surface area of carbon steel (ordinary metal parts that most metal stuff is made of)... with ONE square inch (area) of Stainless Steel, and bolt them together and immerse them in an electrolyte (water) over a period of time. The carbon steel will corrode/disolve at a Certain rate. The SS will remain perfectly intact.

If you Increase the AREA of the stainless steel relative to the area of the carbon steel....to ..lets say TEN times the area of the carbon steel....The SS will still remain perfectly intact..BUT..The Carbon Steel will corrode/dissolve at a MASSIVELY Increased rate

This is NOT GOOD when you consider that a chain is only as good as its weakest link.

All Carbon Steel....Galvanized....is the BEST material for a mooring...Salt OR Fresh. This is not my opinion, this is engineering fact.

APS: I admire your ingenuity and perseverance. NB

[BroadHopper]

My Dad filled an old refrigerator with concrete and sank it in 30' of water back in the '50's. Tough to take out and show it to you.

The chain been replace several times as it gets pretty rough on The Broads. The hook was a bent concrete rebar. Although it looks pretty nasty today, it had never broke through.

I'm sure the EPA will not allow refrigerators as an anchor today.

[SIKSUKR]

Always thought that you could find anything except the kitchen sink in Winni but I guess APS has that one covered.Love the Yankee ingenuity but I think it would work even better if you left the cast soil pipe attched at the house.

[Flyfisha]

So after giving it much thought I have put together 5 --200# blocks of granite. Using the individual blocks makes it more flexible for me to take them out to the island using my little work boat. I am having holes drilled into each block but no where have I seen what size chain to use.

Also how much chain should I use for scope??

Thanks in advance!!

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

Use just enough chain to allow you to have some separation between the blocks to increase the surface contact and to come far enough away to prevent chafe. Use a swivel as a connector between the chain and the rode with length 1.5 times the depth. The more chain you use the more weight you will have and therefore the bigger mooring ball to support it.

Farris metals don't last long in the lake due to the high acid content; I suggest you use S/S components. With common steel chain and hardware you'll be revisiting this problem in five years.

A thousand lbs. of granite will easily hold a 25' boat.

[Flyfisha]

Thanks for answering my scope question but now how large diameter of chain should I use??

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

The minimum I'd use is 5/16” bout prefer 3/8". If you're going with S/S 5/16” is fine, carbon steel then use the biggest that fits through the holes.

[Flyfisha]

The hole size is 1 1/2 inches--Thanks so much for all of your info and patience as I undertake this project!!!

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

I believe in FLL method whenever possible. At 42.5 lbs. and $1.59 per concrete block. (That's 25 lbs. under water), about 7 of these blocks with a stainless steel chain looped through them would cost $11.00 plus the chain, shackles, etc, would wind up costing about $50.00 for the whole setup. getting a bigger boat? Add more blocks.

This works for about 2 seasons until the chain cuts through the blocks like a saw with all the movement. One thing that is very important. INSPECT your mooring completely on a regular schedule.


Or you may end up like me having my neighbors calling saying your boat drifted away. I was lucky, when the boat got close to shore the mast hung up in a tree branch and held the boat there for a few days away from the rocks.

[NoBozo]

I am finding it difficult to remain silent with this discussion. I recommend that ALL those who have posted here (and listened here) to go to your local LIBRARY and find "Chapman's.. Seamanship and Small Boat Handling".

Look up Moorings.

Those who are promoting Stainless Steel for a mooring are likely Selling Stainless Steel. Stainless Steel is not cheap and is completely UNNECESSARY for a mooring. NB

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

I am finding it difficult to remain silent with this discussion. I recommend that ALL those who have posted here (and listened here) to go to your local LIBRARY and find "Chapman's.. Seamanship and Small Boat Handling".

Look up Moorings.

Those who are promoting Stainless Steel for a mooring are likely Selling Stainless Steel. Stainless Steel is not cheap and is completely UNNECESSARY for a mooring. NB

Hello Mr. Bozo.

Looks like you missed something here in the conversation... We're talking about moorings here on Lake Winnipesaukee not Manhasset Bay, NY. I'll say it again I service 50 moorings per year; some are in Kittery, ME some are in Portsmouth, NH some are in Newbury Port, MA but most are here on the lake. I get to see firsthand what works best for each location. The lake has a high acid content which eats up steel components at an accelerated rate. I highly recommend the use of S/S or like it says in Chapman you need to pull it for inspection every year or so.

BTW: Did you also miss the part where I said I do underwater investigations for insurance companies. Guess why they want a detailed evaluation of the failed ground tackle?

One last comment: I'm not in the business selling stainless steel, I sell diving services. This old expression applies here: You can pay me now or pay me later...

[NoBozo]

Howdy Mr. Diver. I try to stay away from confrontations on this board because they usually result in a Cat Fight. Your response to my post is well taken and you have some points to be considered.

You ARE in the Mooring Business so you do have a financial interest...NO..?? You make recommendations to mooring owners who know nothing about moorings.... So they have no choice but to rely on your good advice.

I have NO Financial Interest in moorings or anything else I may comment on on this board. I just speak from my own perspective and personal/professional experience... with perhaps some knowledge about boating that I have gained during my 69 years.

Best regards Diver. NB

[trfour]

Let alone in the Lake, And you need hardware, stainless steel is the way to go.

Early sixties, I worked two part time jobs while going to school and decided to pay my way and learn how to weld.
Got my certificate and landed a full time job at Taunton Engineering Works and subsequently learned about steel through a great Swedish teacher in [ Knute Zarr ] whom was shop foreman there at the time. Together we built everything from huge industrial mixers, storage tanks to Stop & Shop's all stainless steel potato chip line that cleaned, peeled, sliced, cooked and packaged them. From Baker Chocolates in Boston, to Bird & Sons roofing in Walpole Ma. and beyond.

Nuts & bolts, stainless are not that much more expensive. Pay a little more and relax knowing that they will outlast their expense!



Terry
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[ApS]

Thank you, Terry. I agree.

Originally Posted by NoBozo

"...Those who are promoting Stainless Steel for a mooring are likely Selling Stainless Steel. Stainless Steel is not cheap and is completely UNNECESSARY for a mooring..."

As WD mentioned, you don't need to make your mooring "all-chain". A nylon rode connected to several feet of chain is sufficient.

My SS chain was bought at an outdoor retailer's—off a near-empty reel of the stuff. I estimated what remained to be about 30', and told the employee I needed 25' . Rather than laborously cut the remaining 5' (losing one link and having only 5-feet left to sell) at my request he threw-in the extra footage at the 25' price!

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Always thought that you could find anything except the kitchen sink in Winni but I guess APS has that one covered.Love the Yankee ingenuity but I think it would work even better if you left the cast soil pipe attached at the house.

1) SS can't be economically recycled, so the SS sinks were headed for a landfill—somewhere.

2) When SS rubs against SS (as it will—endlessly—at a mooring), wear is greatly reduced.

3) Concrete cures best when it is covered. Pictured is a carefully sealed tin can sealing the only opening—and not a soil pipe.

[NoBozo]

I did some research the other day after my last post, into the cost of Stainlass Steel chain Vs. Galvanzed chain. When I got all done..... I said to myself.....NB.......LET IT GO. So I did. Well here we are again.

GO to West Marine.com and look it up. Just in round numbers. 3/8 SS Chain costs about $36 per foot compared to $4 per foot for galvanized. It's your money. NB

[trfour]

Galvanized? Just go to you're nearest Dunkin Donuts, and they will link some of those puppies together for you and make a stronger chain than galvanized!... Galvanized coated steel is low end and very cheap. Most of us that buy a chain for anything, want it to last for, and secure what we are buying it for, in the first place!...

Everyone needs to know and understand what is called the [ tensile strength, will give most an idea of how long it will last and endure for any given situation.] [ Mild steel and some others ]... Now, and if you are looking for cheap, by all means, get the galvanized. If you want it to last longer, pay some more and do look at both tensile strength and also consider that Stainless Steel in the waters of Lake Winnipesaukee, or in our Atlantic Ocean will outlast and endure ANY Galvanized Apparatus...


Terry
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[Winnipesaukee Divers]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

I did some research the other day after my last post, into the cost of Stainlass Steel chain Vs. Galvanzed chain. When I got all done..... I said to myself.....NB.......LET IT GO. So I did. Well here we are again.

GO to West Marine.com and look it up. Just in round numbers. 3/8 SS Chain costs about $36 per foot compared to $4 per foot for galvanized. It's your money. NB

You'll get no argument from me about the cost of S/S hardware. I struggle with price also, since I need so much of it. However, what I don't get is why you would be advocating, "Take the cheap way out". It's one thing, when it's your own boat and ground tackle at stake, but totally different when someone (who doesn’t know) ask for advice. I didn't tell him "this is the way it has to be done", but rather explained what works best in Lake Winnipesaukee based on my years of experience servicing moorings.

The key thing here is: How long do you need to mooring to be dependable and safe? If it a year, two years or even five years then good galvanize is fine. But here's one last point: "temporary most often turn to permanent". How much is your boat worth?

[NoBozo]

Stainless Steel, like every material, has applications best suited to the characteristics inherent that material. One excellent application for SS is in sailboat rigging. It's use in that application is universal.

There are times when a material may be ideal in a special application where that material is not normally used. A mooring may be one of those applications.

Carbon Fiber is one such material that is used in special applications where safety, strength and light weight is the main requirement...such as in structural members and body parts in Formula One race cars. We don't usually use carbon fiber in the family sedan, although the extra strength and light weight would certainly be Nice.
We are now using Carbon Fiber in custom built racing sailboats for masts, which are normally made of aluminum in production boats. Anyway, the list can go on and on where certain materials are suited to certain applications and cost is not a factor.

There is probably nothing wrong with using SS for moorings but I just feel that there are much more practical alternatives. For example, I wouldn't use Kevlar for docklines.


BTW: If you are buying marine related supplies, such as chain and fittings in bulk....or even in small quantities, have you tried Jamestown Distributors, in Bristol, RI. Their prices have always been competitive and their service excellent. NB

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...675960.ajp13w1

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee Divers

"...How long do you need a mooring to be dependable and safe? If it's a year, two years or even five years then good galvanize is fine. But here's one last point: "temporary most often turn to permanent". How much is your boat worth?

A serious saltwater friend says there are differences in galvanized chain quality. He advised,

"Don't buy galvanized chain at a hardware store ".

(So I haven't—I buy Stainless Steel instead).

Originally Posted by trfour

"...Let alone in the Lake, And you need hardware, stainless steel is the way to go...Nuts & bolts, stainless are not that much more expensive. Pay a little more and relax knowing that they will outlast their expense...!"

Heck, you can pass stainless steel down through the family!

[Island Girl]

Originally Posted by Flyfisha

Thanks for answering my scope question but now how large diameter of chain should I use??

Did the 5 granite blocks work for you? Where did you get them and get the hole drilled? What hardward did you finally use?

Thanks

[codeman671]

I am surprised at some of the light weights people have mentioned in this thread. We have two moorings, both are 2k lb concrete blocks with a PVC pipe through the middle. Even our swim raft uses a 500lb concrete disk and stainless chain.

[Flyfisha]

Originally Posted by Island Girl

Did the 5 granite blocks work for you? Where did you get them and get the hole drilled? What hardward did you finally use?

Thanks

The granite blocks worked great!! Used 3/8 chain with hardware that I bought at Watermark.

The granite came from a family quarry in Sunapee. Scrap blocks with holes cost me a total of 50 Bucks!!

The key in my opinion is to make sure you have proper scope as well as swivels in the chain.

My Oday 192 has stayed put with those Rattlesnake Island winds!!