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Old 04-04-2019, 07:49 AM   #1
ishoot308
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Default Fishing Survey

All;

As many of you may or may not be aware, a number of us dedicated Winnipesaukee anglers have been meeting with and working behind the scenes with NHF&G to help with some of the issues regarding missing age classes of salmon in Lake Winnipesaukee.

Without getting into all the particulars, one of the questions we raised to Fish and Game is what we as anglers can do to help them and help the lake regain these missing age classes…

In meeting with and speaking to their biologist, the biggest help we can do is supply them with information on our daily catch. In an effort to help with this, attached please find a very simple log sheet we have come up with to help F&G biologist determine the health of the fishery. The information requested on the log sheet is the only information they need for help. Also attached is an example of how the log should be filled out.

For those wishing to take part and help out with this important endeavor, please note the following…

#1. Only harvested fish are to be measured. Please do not attempt to measure any fish you plan on releasing.

#2. For those fish harvested and being measured, it is very critical to the biologist that proper measurements are taken as follows… with closed snout against “0” mark and longest caudal lobe (tail fin edge) being the total length – no “fisherman’s ruler” or “guesstimates”. Any measurements not done this way will be counterproductive.

#3. Please do not attempt to age class any salmon by fin clip. This information is not needed.

#4. If you would like further updates on this issue after the season is closed, please print your name and email address on the bottom of the log sheet. Please note that this is completely optional and not required for the survey.

Please email your completed sheets at the end of the season to winniangler1@gmail.com

Feel free to PM me through this board with any questions you may have.

Thanks!

Dan

Edited to add...if anyone is fishing on the lake with a VHF radio and would like a log sheet, simply request one on channel 12 as many fishermen will have them handy and some of these fishermen actually fish 7 days a week!
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File Type: pdf Winni Fish Log Example.pdf (17.9 KB, 246 views)
File Type: pdf Winnipesaukee Fishing Log.pdf (53.8 KB, 217 views)
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Old 04-04-2019, 08:06 AM   #2
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Great job Dan. A big thank you to you and the rest of the anglers for your behind the scene work to preserve and improve our salmon population


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
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Old 04-04-2019, 03:27 PM   #3
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Thank you for kicking this off Dan! This is a great example of sportsmen giving back to this great fishery. I'm hoping everyone who wets a line joins in. Good luck all this season and get those surveys back!
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Old 04-04-2019, 04:46 PM   #4
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Default Bass?

How about the bass fishery? IMO it has declined significantly over the past 20+ years. Does NHF&G plan to do a similar study for these fish?
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Old 04-04-2019, 05:19 PM   #5
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How about the bass fishery? IMO it has declined significantly over the past 20+ years. Does NHF&G plan to do a similar study for these fish?
Iím not a bass fishermen so I honestly do not know. Concerned bass fishermen should get together and attend meetings at NHF&G and raise your concerns and ask questions.

Good Luck!

Dan
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Old 04-05-2019, 05:44 AM   #6
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Thanks for the info. Looking forward to the season and dragging flies! Planning to participate.
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Old 04-05-2019, 09:11 AM   #7
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So is this about the entire fisheries or just salmon?
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Old 04-05-2019, 09:50 AM   #8
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So is this about the entire fisheries or just salmon?
Check with the wife Steve....since she catches all the fish anyway....
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Old 04-05-2019, 01:47 PM   #9
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Default Bass Fishery

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How about the bass fishery? IMO it has declined significantly over the past 20+ years. Does NHF&G plan to do a similar study for these fish?
NH Fish & Game has fishing tournament records dating back to at least 1996 that I am aware of of all fishing tournaments in the State. Gabe Griess, who used to be a Fisheries Biologist for NH F&G would use these records to monitor the health of the bass fishery in different lakes across the State. He published a report back in 2005 which gave us an idea of how healthy a bass fishery was. It would be interesting to have an updated report and be able to compare data year over year.

https://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/fis...ament-data.pdf
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Old 04-05-2019, 01:57 PM   #10
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Old 04-05-2019, 02:46 PM   #11
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Default How long?

Great project, Dan. Thanks for being a leader. Is this one season, or multi-year?
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:39 PM   #12
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Participating!
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:55 PM   #13
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Great project, Dan. Thanks for being a leader. Is this one season, or multi-year?
For now we are doing it on a year to year basis until the salmon population recovers. In discussions with F&G, we expect recovery in 2-3 years...

Salmon rearing has been moved from the Powder Mill hatchery to the Nashua hatchery which will immediately help in raising larger smolt. The larger smolt will survive better and eventually the missing age classes will return.

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Old 04-06-2019, 05:58 AM   #14
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Check with the wife Steve....since she catches all the fish anyway....
I was asking for her... ;-)
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:50 PM   #15
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Default 7-dollar senior fishing licenses for those poor, oldies!

Here's what you probably did not know ...... at least, I was unaware ..... what goes from $45 down to $7, when you turn age-68 ..... you didn't know it did you .... you qualify for a senior fishing license, starting at age-68, and the price goes from 45, down to seven ...... something to look forward to!

Just coughed up $47, 45 + 2, at Walmart for a license, yesterday, and that's the last time I will supposedly ever be paying the big-45. Next year, it's $7 ..... something to look forward to ...... weeeeeeoooooooo!

I always like to buy my license at Walmart with a credit card because I figure there is a much better chance the money will actually end up, where it's supposed to be going, to the NH F&G.
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Old 04-11-2019, 09:48 AM   #16
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I pay nothing... I bought a life time combination license in 1986! It cost me $400 then so I guess I got a deal...
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Old 04-11-2019, 04:58 PM   #17
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Default Salmon help

Hi;
My family and I have been comming to the lake for over 55 years. I now own a condo at WEIRS BEACH. I started snorkling, then scuba diving the entire lake for all those 55 years.

I always got my own bait(crawfish) for bass by snorkling and picking up rocks in the shallows, and buying bait at AJ's for the salmon, lakers, etc. I would catch over 40-50 crayfish in a couple of hours, but, I had to stop even trying over 7 years ago, because there was NO MORE CRAYFISH under the same rocks that supplied me for over 40 years. I, also, do a fair amount of trolling with lures, live shinners and smelt. I have had days just a few years ago where just 2 anglers boated 28 salmon in 5 hours in Center Harbor. I have fished every "SALMON DERBY" since it's inception, taking 6th place one year with a 5.5 pound salmon near Governors Island.

I want to tell everyone I can, that I have seen some of the fastest, and the worse depletion of bait, gamefish, and water quality in my history. Over the past 3-4 years I have seen my catching numbers of Salmon, trout and bass decline to next to nothing. I, now, average about 1 per day on salmon. I blame the quality of the water and the absence of bait. If you dive anywhere in the lake nowadays, you will find a slimey, gucky algae growth covering everything...weeds, rocks, everything! I think this slime has killed off the crayfish which live on the bottom, under rocks. I think the other bugs, newts, salamanders, and all sorts of marine invertabrates are, likewise, being killed off by this algae....the animals, their eggs and young used to feed the predators (Salmon, etc). Now, without the natural prey, the prime fish are disappearing too. Intelligent and, frequent stocking is a band-aid. the problem is "WATER QUALITY". As a matter of example to my arguement. When I used to catch my own crayfish, it was real easy....I would snorkle over the rocks in about 3-10' of water,looking for "Clean" sand or gravel surrounding the rocks. That was a "tele-tale" sign that a crayfish was actively living under that rock, as they keep a "clean house" where they live by carrying the sand out from under that rock to make room for their living quarters. That sand builds up just outside their home(nice and clean from the movement). NOT ANY MORE>> every once an a while I check 30-50 rocks near my condo....ZERO CRAYFISH for the past 7-8 years. We are in deep do-do folks. I don't have a solution.

If anyone has seen the same or additional travesties, please let me know

bobcoff1940@gmail.com
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:34 PM   #18
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Despite what fishing derby, marinas and other tourist promoting organizations may try to sell us. The lake is dying a not so slow death !
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:48 PM   #19
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Default Not Quite True...

So much misinformation I did not wish to reply to... but I will...tomorrow...

Dan
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WINNI BOB View Post
Hi;
My family and I have been comming to the lake for over 55 years. I now own a condo at WEIRS BEACH. I started snorkling, then scuba diving the entire lake for all those 55 years.

I always got my own bait(crawfish) for bass by snorkling and picking up rocks in the shallows, and buying bait at AJ's for the salmon, lakers, etc. I would catch over 40-50 crayfish in a couple of hours, but, I had to stop even trying over 7 years ago, because there was NO MORE CRAYFISH under the same rocks that supplied me for over 40 years. I, also, do a fair amount of trolling with lures, live shinners and smelt. I have had days just a few years ago where just 2 anglers boated 28 salmon in 5 hours in Center Harbor. I have fished every "SALMON DERBY" since it's inception, taking 6th place one year with a 5.5 pound salmon near Governors Island.

I want to tell everyone I can, that I have seen some of the fastest, and the worse depletion of bait, gamefish, and water quality in my history. Over the past 3-4 years I have seen my catching numbers of Salmon, trout and bass decline to next to nothing. I, now, average about 1 per day on salmon. I blame the quality of the water and the absence of bait. If you dive anywhere in the lake nowadays, you will find a slimey, gucky algae growth covering everything...weeds, rocks, everything! I think this slime has killed off the crayfish which live on the bottom, under rocks. I think the other bugs, newts, salamanders, and all sorts of marine invertabrates are, likewise, being killed off by this algae....the animals, their eggs and young used to feed the predators (Salmon, etc). Now, without the natural prey, the prime fish are disappearing too. Intelligent and, frequent stocking is a band-aid. the problem is "WATER QUALITY". As a matter of example to my arguement. When I used to catch my own crayfish, it was real easy....I would snorkle over the rocks in about 3-10' of water,looking for "Clean" sand or gravel surrounding the rocks. That was a "tele-tale" sign that a crayfish was actively living under that rock, as they keep a "clean house" where they live by carrying the sand out from under that rock to make room for their living quarters. That sand builds up just outside their home(nice and clean from the movement). NOT ANY MORE>> every once an a while I check 30-50 rocks near my condo....ZERO CRAYFISH for the past 7-8 years. We are in deep do-do folks. I don't have a solution.

If anyone has seen the same or additional travesties, please let me know

bobcoff1940@gmail.com
I thought you said the problem was algae? The water quality changed the first day a camp was built on the shore front of the lake... the rest is history. Then we can also throw in boaters who have unknowingly released aquatic animals and plants into the lake via their trailers, bilges, and live wells. There is no going back from progress...
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Old 04-12-2019, 01:29 PM   #21
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Default Salmon Issues

Let me clarify a few things before this thread spirals out of control with misinformation... I apologize in advance for the length of this post...

First off the missing age classes of salmon have absolutely nothing to do with water quality, algae, crayfish, camps, boats or lack of baitfish...that’s all just a bunch of malarkey! As a matter of fact trawl netting and hydro acoustic surveys of smelt (primary food for salmon and trout) are done on a regular basis by the states biologist and have shown that winnipesaukee has an abundance of smelt and has been this way for a number of years so food is not an issue. Also the water quality in Winni is excellent for salmon and smelt to thrive in so again another non issue.

Salmon are not native to the lake and are stocked each year by the state. Every year winnipesaukee gets stocked with a certain number of POUNDS of salmon. It does not stock based on quantity but by weight.

Unfortunately due to “issues” at the Powder Mill Hatchery, for the past few years, the state has had to stop using heated water and nutrients which would help the salmon grow larger before stocking. Prior to this and In years past, 8-10 smolt per pound was the average when stocking and approximately 30,000 salmon were stocked each year at different locations in the lake.

In 2017 the state stocked 55,816 salmon in Winnipesaukee all in one location. Most people think wow that’s good they stocked almost twice as many fish as previous years...unfortunately that 55,816 represented the same weight as the 30,000 previously stocked in years past...the smolts were that much smaller and Most of them became baitfish for larger predatory fish and birds (loons,ducks, etc, etc.) and not many survived. THis is the reason we have missing age classes of salmon. The reason for stocking all in one location is the state thought they would have a better chance of survival being all together as it is natural instinct for baitfish to school up when being attacked.

By far in 2018, the predominant salmon age class caught was 3 years old. On average the catch ratio for most of us involved with this study was between 75-80% of our catch was the 3 year old salmon. We were catching very few if any any 1 or 2 year old fish and myself personally never caught a single stocked fingerling after they were stocked which is highly unusual.

Beginning this year all salmon rearing has been moved from the Powder Mill Hatchery to the Nashua, NH facility where warm water and proper nutrients will allow the smolts to grow larger before being stocked in the lake and survivability will be much better. The salmon will eventually rebound but it’s going to take a couple years.

There is a LOT more going on behind the scenes but this post is long enough and gives everyone the basic idea of what the issue really is.

In the meantime there is over abundance of lake trout and plenty of rainbow trout in the lake just waiting to be caught! Also the 4 year old salmon that will be caught this year should be real beauties! So get out there when and if the ice ever leaves!

Tight lines!

Dan
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:11 PM   #22
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Betty the small mouth bass is a bass who lives under my dock ..... she's been there for years and years ..... and while she has a small mouth, she also has some sharp teeth .... and anyone gets too close to her nest on the bottom in the rocks ..... she attacks ..... she will bite..... usually on the calf, sometimes on the thigh!

Anyway, Betty the small mouth bass tells me the lake bottom has become covered with some type of yucky stuff ..... and first chance she gets ..... she wants to swim the underground waterway back to the much cleaner waters in Squam Lake.

Betty know what she knows , and she knows what she wants ...... and Betty the small mouth bass says ...... it's goodbye Winnipesaukee ...... and, helloooooo Squam!
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Old 04-13-2019, 07:00 AM   #23
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Hey Dan, just to clarify on the instructions you sent...you mentioned that only fish that are kept should be measured.....I'm guessing this means "record ALL fish caught but only measure those that are kept". This is correct?
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Old 04-13-2019, 07:39 AM   #24
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Hey Dan, just to clarify on the instructions you sent...you mentioned that only fish that are kept should be measured.....I'm guessing this means "record ALL fish caught but only measure those that are kept". This is correct?
I think That if you are RELEASING salmon, don’t jeopardize their survival by keeping them out of the water any longer than you need to, thus NO MEASURING.
It might also skew the survey results by measuring released fish if the next angler that keeps that released fish also measures it for the survey.
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Old 04-13-2019, 08:07 AM   #25
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Hey Dan, just to clarify on the instructions you sent...you mentioned that only fish that are kept should be measured.....I'm guessing this means "record ALL fish caught but only measure those that are kept". This is correct?
That is correct Mike...

Thanks for taking part!

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Old 04-13-2019, 08:09 AM   #26
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I think That if you are RELEASING salmon, donít jeopardize their survival by keeping them out of the water any longer than you need to, thus NO MEASURING.
That is quite correct Hill!

Thanks for taking part!

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Old 04-13-2019, 08:12 AM   #27
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That is correct Mike...

Thanks for taking part!

Dan
Okay, I didn’t realize that released salmon should be recorded on the survey sheet as well.
I looked at the example again and I understand what should be recorded now. Thanks again Dan!
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:00 PM   #28
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Default Rock bass

No one is talking about Rock Bass, maybe they are getting all the crawfish and baby bass.
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Old 04-14-2019, 10:33 AM   #29
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No one is talking about Rock Bass, maybe they are getting all the crawfish and baby bass.
Iím not a biologist but that would certainly be my guess!

Dan
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:00 AM   #30
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Unfortunately due to ďissuesĒ at the Powder Mill Hatchery, for the past few years, the state has had to stop using heated water and nutrients which would help the salmon grow larger before stocking.
For those who may be wondering, the "issues" are the Catch-22 of the fish hatchery business. Everyone wants the lakes stocked with sport fish, but the consequence is that these fish hatcheries are also fertilizer plants. The nutrients and fish excrement combined to create phosphorous levels in the Merrymeeting River that are off the charts. A river that flows directly into Alton Bay.

This will not be fixed without some very expensive filtration and treatment systems at the hatchery, funds which will most likely need to come from increased license fees.
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:13 AM   #31
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Been monitoring the Winni Derby that is going on now and have seen some facebook postings where "someone" is saying they are "12 for 18" and another said "26 for 34"
All I can think is THAT is a lot of hookups and landed fish! That's only 2 boats!
Then I wonder how many "floaters" we'll encounter this week when the lake returns to normal.
I do not participate in derbies.
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Old 05-20-2019, 04:59 AM   #32
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HC, the numbers of Derby fish caught seem similar to what I see in a typical derby in a single day(mid-30s per DAY not uncommon). However this year, mid-teens is my total catch for the entire derby. Saturday was nearly a skunk with the winds.

With the missing age classes, I think EVERY FISH that is not returned to the lake will be missed over the next few years. Most fish are very nice and healthy 4 year olds and I see almost everyone it seems keeping them. Sure the derby may have killed 100-200 but I'm seeing pictures on several trolling related forums from both rec fishermen and guides and all these beautiful fish are being kept it seems. The minority seems to be the catch and release guys.

Bottom line is this fishery will continue to suffer until the missing age classes are replaced but IMHO it is not the derby but those who do not realize the state of the fishery and continue to keep (legally) every fish they catch during this recovery period.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:29 PM   #33
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Default Salmon Derby - MY comments

Hi;

I have been fishing for all species for over 55 years, from Wolfboro to Lakeport, Center harbor, Weirs and Alton Bay. I have fished in over 25 Derbys. Placed 6th back 15 years ago with a 5.5 pound salmon caught just off Governor's Island. By the way, that salmon would have won the derby the year before, and the following year.

I am pretty good at what I do. I spend a lot of time fishing. I have, actually, caught over 28 salmon in 4 hours one day inside Center Harbor(with a buddy). We could only use 1 rod each as the action was so hot. We had several double "hook-ups" that day....we released all the fish!

However, over the past 3-5 years, the salmon fishing has been awful.
I have been averaging only 1 fish per day. During this past derby, I had 8 buddy's in 3 boats, and, all together, we only averaged 1 fish per day ...each. Yes, on some days one or two of us would get a couple, and others would get none. That's horrible!!!
We did , also, get a couple of nice Rainbow trout, and about 6-8 Lakers, but we're not concerned about those fish.

We were out, fishing, at 5:00 am , and we , also fished the twilight hours from 6:00 pm to 9:00 pm (prime time). We tried everything, and the smelt from AJ's was great till they ran out. We fished from Meridith to Welsh Island. Downriggering, "slo-trolling", and drift fishing with no weight .... we tried everything !!! The main thing I noticed was; we were not marking many "REAL" fish(nice traditional upside-down u's) , and I use a $ 3000 12" HDS LOWRANCE that will pinpoint a damn shiner under my boat at 50'. I really think that there is, simply very few fish left in the lake.
I also, make it a point to ask the other guys fishing, that we pass...how they are doing, and I got a lot of Zeros , using their fingers as we passed.

I hope somebody figures out what's going on, because I'm looking to sell my condo and move to another lake, and I hate doing this as I have had a great time on this lake for so long.

By the way, I am ,"NOW" ,one of the few guys that release all the salmon I catch. The pictures that are attached, were caught years ago when there was less pressure....I use the "red" plastic "hook dis-gorger" that many guys don't even know how to use, so 90% or more of the fish I release, probably live.

To those guys that are doing the survey,,,"THANKS"
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:23 PM   #34
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Hi;I hope somebody figures out what's going on, because I'm looking to sell my condo and move to another lake, and I hate doing this as I have had a great time on this lake for so long.
Bob;

Post # 21 in this thread tells you "whats going on". Plan on a 3 year recovery minimum! In my opinion, the derby should have been reconfigured to exclude salmon as a prize fish. No reason to cancel it, just reconfigure it. If you have been fishing the derby since the beginning then you would remember that the derby was originally started to REDUCE the amount of salmon in the lake during a period when overstocking had depleted the smelt population. How the state now figures its not doing the same has me scratching my head!...

Catch and proper release is always good!

Nice pics!!

FYI...Three dead salmon washed up on my beach on Welch Island in yesterdays wind.

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Old 05-22-2019, 03:50 PM   #35
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We went out 2 times so far and caught one laker each time (which I am happy about and both recorded on the survey)
Hopefully, the survey results will allow the biologists to restore the salmon to yester-years numbers but until then Lakers and bows will be happily caught!
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:38 AM   #36
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Default Fishing Survey

To those who took part in the fishing survey this year, please email your completed sheets to winniangler1@gmail.com

If you are unable to email sheets and would prefer to snail mail them, please private message me through this board for a mailing address.

Once all sheets have been collected and no later than November 1st, all survey sheets will be forwarded to NH Fish and Game biologist for their interpretation of the findings.

Any information shared by NHF&G will be shared with all survey participants who have included an email address on their survey sheet.

Thank you for taking part in this important survey!

Till next year....

Dan
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:58 PM   #37
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Dan, Iíll have my wife make a PDF of my list and get it to you. I have no clue how to make a PDF.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:23 AM   #38
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thanks Dan. i'll get mine scanned and sent out soon.
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Old 10-19-2019, 12:58 PM   #39
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Default Final Reminder

Just bumping this up as a final reminder. All survey sheets will be sent in next week...


To those who took part in the fishing survey this year, please email your completed sheets to winniangler1@gmail.com

If you are unable to email sheets and would prefer to snail mail them, please private message me through this board for a mailing address.

Once all sheets have been collected and no later than November 1st, all survey sheets will be forwarded to NH Fish and Game biologist for their interpretation of the findings.

Any information shared by NHF&G will be shared with all survey participants who have included an email address on their survey sheet.

Thank you for taking part in this important survey!

Till next year....

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Old 10-19-2019, 03:18 PM   #40
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Just bumping this up as a final reminder. All survey sheets will be sent in next week...


To those who took part in the fishing survey this year, please email your completed sheets to winniangler1@gmail.com

If you are unable to email sheets and would prefer to snail mail them, please private message me through this board for a mailing address.

Once all sheets have been collected and no later than November 1st, all survey sheets will be forwarded to NH Fish and Game biologist for their interpretation of the findings.

Any information shared by NHF&G will be shared with all survey participants who have included an email address on their survey sheet.

Thank you for taking part in this important survey!

Till next year....

Dan
Thanks Dan! I was curious how many were distributed and turned in to you?
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Old 10-19-2019, 03:35 PM   #41
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Thanks Dan! I was curious how many were distributed and turned in to you?
Itís hard to say how many got distributed, we posted the printable link on a couple fishing web sites as well as here. My friend Bob Galeckas also sent it in a mass email to all the RFP people. I also had them available at the Glendale docks. Really no way to tell how many got distributed.

As far as what was turned in so far is not nearly what I was hoping for and Iím not sure how many Bob has received from the RFP people. I am going to guess at this point it will be less than 20......

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Old 10-22-2019, 08:28 AM   #42
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mine is still inside the boat, but i plan to tarp it up for winter this weekend so i'll grab it then. if i don't forget..
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Old 10-30-2019, 02:35 PM   #43
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emailed it to ya dan.
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Old 11-04-2019, 04:18 PM   #44
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Default Hatchery Update

I had the opportunity to get a tour of the Nashua fish hatchery today. I saw the 75,000 + or - Salmonoids that will be stocked in our NH lakes next spring.

According to the F&G director in charge of the facility, they are hoping and his goal is that stock size will be 6-8 smolt per pound. This number is based on how they have grown thus far which is fantastic! We have not seen salmon stocked that large in a number of years!

While we still have a few years to go for a complete turn around in missing age classes, this would certainly be a great start! So keep your fingers crossed that the hatchery directorís goal holds true.

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Old 11-04-2019, 04:33 PM   #45
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Sounds good Dan! Thank you for your dedication to the Winni fishery!
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:11 AM   #46
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Best thing to do is to leave the fish alone.What it amounts to is harming other beings for your own pleasure. I know, I know. Catch and release isn't really hurting them, right?
But what if you trolled down the street in your pickup dragging a hunk of meat on a giant hook and caught dogs and cats, dragged them out of their yards into your truck then let them go. Would you consider that not harming another being?

Everything has a right to live a happy and healthy life, free from pain and suffering, not just the humans. And its very bad Karma to hurt others for your own fun, excitement and entertainment, don't you think?
Or do other being share this planet just for the human species to wound, kill, slaughter, and cause pain and suffering to?

Dont get me wrong, I was an Avid! Avid! Avid! fly fisherman and hunter for many years. But I was also doing just about everything without thinking about it, just doing it because everyone else was "just doing it."

We are not here to harm others and doing so will lead to a bad next life. Maybe even to live as a fish or deer our self the next time around. Or even worst.
Please think before you hurt and cause pain and suffering for your own entertainment.
Wrong. "Best thing to do" is to mind your own business and stop trying to convert others to your way of thinking. Everything DIES...some by the rule of survival of the fittest, some by violent, natural means, some by purely, natural means, some by predator/prey.
If you "were" a hunter/fisherman, you know that what we kill and eat was dispatched in the most humane way possible...that's if you were a responsible sportsman. If you weren't a responsible, ethical sportsman, good luck in your "next life" as I have nothing to worry about.
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:43 AM   #47
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Best thing to do is to leave the fish alone.What it amounts to is harming other beings for your own pleasure. I know, I know. Catch and release isn't really hurting them, right?
But what if you trolled down the street in your pickup dragging a hunk of meat on a giant hook and caught dogs and cats, dragged them out of their yards into your truck then let them go. Would you consider that not harming another being?

Everything has a right to live a happy and healthy life, free from pain and suffering, not just the humans. And its very bad Karma to hurt others for your own fun, excitement and entertainment, don't you think?
Or do other being share this planet just for the human species to wound, kill, slaughter, and cause pain and suffering to?

Dont get me wrong, I was an Avid! Avid! Avid! fly fisherman and hunter for many years. But I was also doing just about everything without thinking about it, just doing it because everyone else was "just doing it."

We are not here to harm others and doing so will lead to a bad next life. Maybe even to live as a fish or deer our self the next time around. Or even worst.
Please think before you hurt and cause pain and suffering for your own entertainment.


Wow are you serious? Have you ever heard of the food chain? Should all living creatures become vegetarian? I love to see that out on the Serengeti when a lion is eating a nice patch of grass instead of an impala. Donít get we started on the fishing and hunting aspect either. Fish and animals would die of starvation and over population.


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Old 11-17-2019, 12:01 PM   #48
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No, you dont have to be vegetarian. But if you didnt harm the animal you wont suffer from bad merit for killing another being. The dead being at that point is just meat. If you're the one that killed tho, thats a different story.

Even the Bible say's "Thou Shall Not Kill."

As far as "My way of thinking." Did you go to school? Maybe you should have told the teachers not to try to teach you about their way of thinking. And as far as dying goes, you're right! We will all die. Have you given that any thought? I mean as to why you are here in the first place. Or are you here just to be here?
That certainly is one way of distorting the Bible. So as long as you didn’t kill it yourself it is Ok to eat it? That’s what your saying. I hope you are a vegetarian because no matter how you put it that chicken, fish, burger or steak you ate for dinner suffered one way or another no matter how you slice it.

Wow I’m getting hungry now. Think I’ll go to T Bones


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Old 11-17-2019, 05:13 PM   #49
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No, you dont have to be vegetarian. But if you didnt harm the animal you wont suffer from bad merit for killing another being. The dead being at that point is just meat. If you're the one that killed tho, thats a different story.
Even the Bible say's "Thou Shall Not Kill."

As far as "My way of thinking." Did you go to school? Maybe you should have told the teachers not to try to teach you about their way of thinking. And as far as dying goes, you're right! We will all die. Have you given that any thought? I mean as to why you are here in the first place. Or are you here just to be here?
Wow. Teachers are NOT supposed to be teaching their way of thinking (like what’s happening now in our schools and universities that are suppressing free speech and teaching moldable minds to hate things they nothing about.)
Teachers are supposed to teach subjects like the usual “readin’ writin’ and ‘rithmatic” as well as our world and nations history. The free exchange of thoughts that should be taking place in many of our educational, institutions has become a one sided (biased to the teacher’s political leanings) example of brainwashing.
As far as meat eating goes I’m firing up the grill for some bacon wrapped venison on a skewer for half time...
I didn’t kill the bacon but I did kill the deer. ;o)
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Old 11-17-2019, 06:18 PM   #50
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It aint "My Way" of thinking. It goes back 2800 years before TV, radio and outright distractions from real life and is well recorded.
As far as history, the winners write the history books. You may not be being taught correct information.
Buddha said: Believe nothing you hear, not by others, not by rumor's, not even written in your religious books. Unless it can be proven without a doubt by yourself."
He said that 2800 years ago, is it not still true today?
Why donít you and Buddha go start your own post and stop messing this one up! This post was started by me about an important fishing issue and would appreciate keeping it on topic!!

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Old 11-17-2019, 07:11 PM   #51
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How does quoting the Bibles "Thou Shall Not Kill" distort the bible? It doesnt say, "Thou Shall Not Kill another Human." Or, "Thou Shall Not Murder another Human." It Simply say's "Thou Shall Not Kill." (Period) Any belief otherwise would be speculation and personal opinion. Right?

That being said. Dead meat is just matter. I have read there is little or no merit lost by consuming it as long as you didn't kill it or cause its suffering. Some Buddhist believe that and eat meat while others are strict vegetarians. But I certainly wouldn't cheer, laugh, or celebrate over eating another beings ground up, cut up, burnt, body on a plate in front of me. (Kinda gross when you think about it) Eating meat to me is a sad occasion, as it should be. I prefer a vegetarian diet.
Hmm so explain this:

Genesis 9:2-3

2 The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

However let's not be lost on the fact that God over the course of time required animal sacrifices throughout both the old and new testament. Funny GOD would require man to break his own commandments. I mean where did all that blood come from during the Passover?

Now let's fast forward, for anyone who claims to be Christian would certainly look to Jesus for inspiration. Yes Jesus the fisherman who regularly fished with his disciples. In fact at the sermon on the mount Jesus fed the entire crowd with bread and FISH. How dare he! You really suggesting Jesus is a murderer? REALLY?!?

Finally - Thou Shalt not MURDER which is the accurate translation of the actual commandment was clarified by Jesus in distinguishing that man was created in GOD's image, animals were NOT. Non justified killing of another human is murder thus a sin in violation of that commandment.

You want to be a vegetarian that's fine but don't sit there and inaccurately pontificate about what the bible says which you clearly have zero understanding of considering in the world according to you Jesus is a murderer.

Dan- great news on the success of the salmon raising in Nashua and the increase in stocking numbers. Looking forward to the results in a few years! Reading stuff like this needs to get out because this is a direct return on the fees paid for licenses many may not be aware of. In fact this should be featured in some fashion on North Woods Law.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:18 PM   #52
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Hmm so explain this:

Genesis 9:2-3

2 The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

However let's not be lost on the fact that God over the course of time required animal sacrifices throughout both the old and new testament. Funny GOD would require man to break his own commandments. I mean where did all that blood come from during the Passover?

Now let's fast forward, for anyone who claims to be Christian would certainly look to Jesus for inspiration. Yes Jesus the fisherman who regularly fished with his disciples. In fact at the sermon on the mount Jesus fed the entire crowd with bread and FISH. How dare he! You really suggesting Jesus is a murderer? REALLY?!?

Finally - Thou Shalt not MURDER which is the accurate translation of the actual commandment was clarified by Jesus in distinguishing that man was created in GOD's image, animals were NOT. Non justified killing of another human is murder thus a sin in violation of that commandment.

You want to be a vegetarian that's fine but don't sit there and inaccurately pontificate about what the bible says which you clearly have zero understanding of considering in the world according to you Jesus is a murderer.

Dan- great news on the success of the salmon raising in Nashua and the increase in stocking numbers. Looking forward to the results in a few years! Reading stuff like this needs to get out because this is a direct return on the fees paid for licenses many may not be aware of. In fact this should be featured in some fashion on North Woods Law.
Please Dhamma & MAXUM,
Take your arguments about whose imaginary friend is the best to some other place.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:46 PM   #53
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Why donít you and Buddha go start your own post and stop messing this one up! This post was started by me about an important fishing issue and would appreciate keeping it on topic!!

Dan
My apologies. My cup runneth over.
I have deleted all of my post and ask that anyone who replied to me in this thread please do the same to clean it up.
Thank you.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:10 AM   #54
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My apologies. My cup runneth over.
I have deleted all of my post and ask that anyone who replied to me in this thread please do the same to clean it up.
Thank you.
Too late...your posts are embedded forever in the replies with quotes.
Howís dat for karma, dhamma. Not so easy to undo things in writing when ďyour keyboard runneth overĒ
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:49 AM   #55
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Old saying: "Say it, forget it, write it (post it), regret it." 😕

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Old 11-18-2019, 12:12 PM   #56
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Too late...your posts are embedded forever in the replies with quotes.
How’s dat for karma, dhamma. Not so easy to undo things in writing when “your keyboard runneth over”
Karma? I said nothing wrong and in fact everything right. And! I just asked my comments to be erased in respect to the thread owners request.
Whats the problem that you see, or think you see?
The only regret I have is that I spoke out of subject. Hardly bad Karma there. And, your reply tells me that you enjoy other peoples suffering. Thats Bad Karma there!

Forget it, dont reply here. Maybe we will talk again in another thread.
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