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Old 07-27-2021, 09:44 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler View Post
I wonder if 19 Mile Bay is actually a smokescreen? Maybe the Town will tell him to pay for and build a dock at 20 Mile Bay instead. This way no one can complain about altering or using the existing dock.

Plenty of parking available on the north bound side of Route 109.

I wonder if this could be the perfect solution?
Same issue--just different people involved. 20 Mile Bay is a public beach. Giving away a public beach to a business is no different than giving away dock space.
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Old 07-28-2021, 07:04 AM   #402
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New seaplane service just announced between Boston and New York. No problem with seaplanes in either of these locations, but of course 19 Mike Bay in Tuftonboro, NH is a lot busier than Boston Harbor and New York’s East River….

https://onemileatatime.com/news/tail...ts-boston-nyc/
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Old 07-28-2021, 08:41 AM   #403
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New seaplane service just announced between Boston and New York. No problem with seaplanes in either of these locations, but of course 19 Mike Bay in Tuftonboro, NH is a lot busier than Boston Harbor and New York’s East River….

https://onemileatatime.com/news/tail...ts-boston-nyc/
You are correct--19 Mile Bay is a lot busier than either--on the weekend there are many more boats and people per acre of water surface. If you doubt this, take a flight to visit all three this Saturday, and let us know which location is easiest to find open water for your landing
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Old 07-28-2021, 10:06 AM   #404
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You are correct--19 Mile Bay is a lot busier than either--on the weekend there are many more boats and people per acre of water surface. If you doubt this, take a flight to visit all three this Saturday, and let us know which location is easiest to find open water for your landing
Want to come with me? I can assure you that 19 Mile is not a problem even on the busiest days. As I've said before, Lakes Region Seaplane Tours operated out of Paugus Bay for several years (as did their predecessors), and again there was never a problem. Just another case of NIMBY against some guy trying to make an effort to open a business on State / Public waters.
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Old 07-28-2021, 10:21 AM   #405
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Want to come with me? I can assure you that 19 Mile is not a problem even on the busiest days. As I've said before, Lakes Region Seaplane Tours operated out of Paugus Bay for several years (as did their predecessors), and again there was never a problem. Just another case of NIMBY against some guy trying to make an effort to open a business on State / Public waters.
Just a question, did Lakes Region Sea Plane Tours use public or private docks to pick up and drop off their customers?
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Old 07-28-2021, 10:48 AM   #406
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Just a question, did Lakes Region Sea Plane Tours use public or private docks to pick up and drop off their customers?
Private, as far as I know. I have no dog in the fight, and have no interest in the dock usage at 19 mile. My interest is in the (bogus) argument that 19 mile bay is too busy for seaplane ops.
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Old 07-28-2021, 11:06 AM   #407
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There was constant noise almost every half hour recently at dinner time from a seaplane taking off/landing this past week in the Mirror Lake community- if that's what will happen at 19 Mile Bay, people will be mighty upset.

If people wanted to live near an airport, it probably wouldn't bother them- otherwise, I imagine there will be some pushback.

To my recollection, the original premise from the owner was to build his business up because of Covid concerns in case his main job dissolved. We haven't heard whether his original concerns have vanished, but I have seen a common thread/response by him to anyone who opposes his plans.

If the Forum Admin was able to research the sign-in names of several that are 'pro-Epic', it appears that the same person is behind them.

I believe that Tuftonboro residents are willing to go to bat against the proposal.
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Old 07-28-2021, 11:38 AM   #408
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Private, as far as I know. I have no dog in the fight, and have no interest in the dock usage at 19 mile. My interest is in the (bogus) argument that 19 mile bay is too busy for seaplane ops.
I have no dog in the fight either. I rent a dock on the other side of the lake, though we do drop a hook in both 19 and 20 mile bays for lunch.

I don't believe the people that are against it, think there isn't enough space for both boat and plane out on the water. It's at the dock that is an issue. Of course I could be totally wrong.

Maybe he should buy or rent a slip and run a launch between dock and boat.... just an idea.
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Old 07-28-2021, 12:04 PM   #409
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There was constant noise almost every half hour recently at dinner time from a seaplane taking off/landing this past week in the Mirror Lake community- if that's what will happen at 19 Mile Bay, people will be mighty upset.

If people wanted to live near an airport, it probably wouldn't bother them- otherwise, I imagine there will be some pushback.

To my recollection, the original premise from the owner was to build his business up because of Covid concerns in case his main job dissolved. We haven't heard whether his original concerns have vanished, but I have seen a common thread/response by him to anyone who opposes his plans.

If the Forum Admin was able to research the sign-in names of several that are 'pro-Epic', it appears that the same person is behind them.

I believe that Tuftonboro residents are willing to go to bat against the proposal.
I can't speak for any others that are "pro-Epic", but I can tell you for sure, that I have one sign-in name only. I don't know Epic, but what gets me upset is the NIMBY crowd trying to stop appropriate use of State waters. I don't care about the dock issue - that's Epic's problem. As far as the noise is concerned, where's the outrage over all the wake boats blasting hideous music at all hours of the day?
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Old 07-28-2021, 12:43 PM   #410
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I can't speak for any others that are "pro-Epic", but I can tell you for sure, that I have one sign-in name only. I don't know Epic, but what gets me upset is the NIMBY crowd trying to stop appropriate use of State waters. I don't care about the dock issue - that's Epic's problem. As far as the noise is concerned, where's the outrage over all the wake boats blasting hideous music at all hours of the day?
Although a number of people have expressed concern about traffic and safety, nobody has said he shouldn't be able to use the lake.

There have been dozens of posters on other threads complaining about wake boats' wakes and noise. I'm surprised you don't remember.
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Old 07-28-2021, 01:00 PM   #411
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Although a number of people have expressed concern about traffic and safety, nobody has said he shouldn't be able to use the lake.

There have been dozens of posters on other threads complaining about wake boats' wakes and noise. I'm surprised you don't remember.
Come on, FS. All the ranting and raving on this about boat traffic, dangerous conditions, noise etc., is specific to the seaplane operations in 19 Mile Bay. The efforts are to prohibit him from operating in that area, which is public access owned by the State. Therefore, they don't want him to use the lake in this specific area.

Regarding wake boats, noise, wakes etc.: OK, there have been numerous threads on here about it, but that's where it ends. No organized efforts to combat loud music and rid 19 Mile Bay of these boats and their associated noise.
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Old 07-28-2021, 02:56 PM   #412
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Come on, FS. All the ranting and raving on this about boat traffic, dangerous conditions, noise etc., is specific to the seaplane operations in 19 Mile Bay. The efforts are to prohibit him from operating in that area, which is public access owned by the State. Therefore, they don't want him to use the lake in this specific area.

Regarding wake boats, noise, wakes etc.: OK, there have been numerous threads on here about it, but that's where it ends. No organized efforts to combat loud music and rid 19 Mile Bay of these boats and their associated noise.
Yes, there are a number of people in 19 Mile Bay who do not want planes up and down hourly in their back yards. I don't find that unreasonable or infringing on normal plane use of the lake. Just as I don't find it unreasonable to object to circling wake boats.

There has been organized opposition to wake boats. It was beaten back, as these things often are, by industry lobbying that stacked the deck against real action. You might Google NH wake boat commission or something like that. Look at the composition of the committee. Try not to laugh/cry at the idea of that particular group of people representing the general public's view on wake boats.
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Old 07-28-2021, 09:57 PM   #413
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I can't speak for any others that are "pro-Epic", but I can tell you for sure, that I have one sign-in name only. I don't know Epic, but what gets me upset is the NIMBY crowd trying to stop appropriate use of State waters. I don't care about the dock issue - that's Epic's problem. As far as the noise is concerned, where's the outrage over all the wake boats blasting hideous music at all hours of the day?

Nobody here has any issue with his access to state waters....seaplanes have been here many years. The issue is using a public dock to operate a commercial business from and the liability exposure the town and its taxpayers have from accidents, incidents or injuries. If he wants to use his own dock or the store owner wants to use hers...they can..
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Old 07-29-2021, 06:06 AM   #414
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Additionally, a dock with limited boat access as it stands at present.
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Old 07-29-2021, 10:16 AM   #415
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Nobody here has any issue with his access to state waters....seaplanes have been here many years. The issue is using a public dock to operate a commercial business from and the liability exposure the town and its taxpayers have from accidents, incidents or injuries. If he wants to use his own dock or the store owner wants to use hers...they can..
Post #385: Your post said "Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run."

If your only issue is "using a public dock to operate a commercial business....", then what does a decibel reading have to do with Epic using the Tuftonboro Town Dock?
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Old 07-29-2021, 11:44 AM   #416
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Post #385: Your post said "Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run."

If your only issue is "using a public dock to operate a commercial business....", then what does a decibel reading have to do with Epic using the Tuftonboro Town Dock?
Could it have been simply for informational purposes for those interested in how loud it was?
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Old 07-29-2021, 02:56 PM   #417
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Post #385: Your post said "Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run."

If your only issue is "using a public dock to operate a commercial business....", then what does a decibel reading have to do with Epic using the Tuftonboro Town Dock?
So what Sherlock.... it’s also noisy.
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Old 07-29-2021, 03:56 PM   #418
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So what Sherlock.... it’s also noisy.
So there is another agenda. And by the way, pound sand on the Sherlock name calling.
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Old 07-29-2021, 05:39 PM   #419
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Default Help me understand.......

if you have taken a party up for a ride and the public dock fills with boats having lunch, buying ice cream, launching boats, etc.......what do you do when you land and you have another party waiting to go up?

Do you just idle around the no wake buoy until something opens up? That seems dangerous if that prop is spinning around. Not to mention loud and creating lots of exhaust. If you choose to float around further out in the bay, you will be certain to get passed over by other boats sneaking into the dock in front of you.

If and when a spot does open up.....it maybe something inbound and difficult for you to get into safely.

You could literally get stuck out there for quite a while. I have gone there many times on the weekend and not been able to dock......and waited 30 plus minutes or just turned around and left. That's with an easily maneuverable boat, not a plane.

Thoughts?
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Old 07-29-2021, 06:03 PM   #420
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if you have taken a party up for a ride and the public dock fills with boats having lunch, buying ice cream, launching boats, etc.......what do you do when you land and you have another party waiting to go up?

Do you just idle around the no wake buoy until something opens up? That seems dangerous if that prop is spinning around. Not to mention loud and creating lots of exhaust. If you choose to float around further out in the bay, you will be certain to get passed over by other boats sneaking into the dock in front of you.

If and when a spot does open up.....it maybe something inbound and difficult for you to get into safely.

You could literally get stuck out there for quite a while. I have gone there many times on the weekend and not been able to dock......and waited 30 plus minutes or just turned around and left. That's with an easily maneuverable boat, not a plane.

Thoughts?
I asked all these questions much earlier in the thread and never received an answer.

I believe that is because the only answer is holding space.

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Old 07-29-2021, 07:46 PM   #421
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The only smoke screen here is being put out by Epic himself. He says he does not plan to”run his business here”, but in reality he really can not tell us how frequently he will be using the dock because he has no idea how much business he will get. If he say anything else he is simple lying. He has no idea but if we allow him to use the public dock for “occasional “ use then the precedent is set and there is nothing stopping him from using it more and more. This is the real danger here and this is what everyone should be concerned with. Plain and simple, if you want to operate a business here do it from the store’s private dock. Otherwise you are not welcome here and I for one will do whatever it takes to block it.
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Old 07-29-2021, 08:43 PM   #422
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The only smoke screen here is being put out by Epic himself. He says he does not plan to”run his business here”, but in reality he really can not tell us how frequently he will be using the dock because he has no idea how much business he will get. If he say anything else he is simple lying. He has no idea but if we allow him to use the public dock for “occasional “ use then the precedent is set and there is nothing stopping him from using it more and more. This is the real danger here and this is what everyone should be concerned with. Plain and simple, if you want to operate a business here do it from the store’s private dock. Otherwise you are not welcome here and I for one will do whatever it takes to block it.
I actually stopped @ Pier 19 to examine their "new" dock the other day. It does look very nice, and appeared to be freshly rebuilt for the purpose of selling their boat gasoline retail business. Because their actual dock is located directly next to land (on two sides) then I would say it is impossible for a plane to ever tie up there. It's hard enough to get a 30' boat safely in and out of there, so I would say a small aircraft would not have a safe place to maneuver in and out of there.

This boat gasoline business is a bit different @ Pier 19 as it is not located at the outer end of a typical dock, rather it is located at the inner land side end of a separate, privately owned condominium space dock (with a locked access gate). In fact, some boaters unfamiliar with the area may not even know that gasoline is even available for purchase there due to lack of visibility approaching from 19 Mile Bay.

With that said, the only option is the Town owned dock and that dock would need some minor alteration in order to accommodate an aircraft...... and it doesn't appear that the Town is too anxious to allow that. Therefore I believe it is highly unlikely for any of this to actually happen.
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Old 07-30-2021, 10:18 AM   #423
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As I read some of these posts I ahve to wonder how familar some of your are with unison wharf...... There is a large part of the north side of the dock, that isn't usable for boats except those with almost no draft, like a pontoon boat, or ha ha a float plane.

As for the posts, as a member of the boating public, of over 40 years, and in more area's of the country that I care to count.... The argument here over the dock post height is absolutely ridiculous. Do you realize this isn't even a conversation on most lakes, rivers and the ocean where dock structures don't even include posts ? OMG what do they tie their boats to.....

As I have seen with most debates on this forum, many of you show your novice boating knowledge, and lack of experience of boating anywhere but Winnipesaukee. For some reason people have decided posts are mandatory for safe dockage of a boat..... They aren't... The whole design of union wharf is ridiculous. And honestly it should be taken out and replaced.... But after seeing the debate here, I can't imagine the noise that would be caused by totaling taking out the wharf and installing something that was more practical.

Folks the world is changing, you can fight the change, and end up miserable because you in the end don't end up with what you deem as the perfect environment, or you can embrace change, and move on with light.

As for the assertion from someone that I am ESA mouth piece, nothing could be farther from the truth. But what I am is someone that listens to all sides of the story.... Much like the speed limit debate, the debate here is become emotional, people are loosing sight of the facts.... A sea plane might not be your couple of tea, neither may a performance boat...... but you know what they have every much a right of to the lake as everyone else.....

I always thought the moto for New Hampshire was "Live Free or Die".... The older I get, the more I realize the moto is "Live Free our way, or get the hell out"......

The reason for the FAA approval and designation does nothing more that get a waypoint set for the location, so that it shows up on Maps, and can be used when filing a flight plan.

Cutting down the posts does nothing to effect the use model of the wharf. In fact I am willing to bet some of the barge businesses etc. will enjoy it as well.....

With all the noise over this, honestly it is know wonder, that business at that site continues to struggle.... any thought to expanding current services is met with hostility, and an unwillingness to discuss and compromise.
The Live free or DIE moto was before all the Mass and New York moved IN...
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Old 07-30-2021, 11:05 AM   #424
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The only smoke screen here is being put out by Epic himself. He says he does not plan to”run his business here”, but in reality he really can not tell us how frequently he will be using the dock because he has no idea how much business he will get. If he say anything else he is simple lying. He has no idea but if we allow him to use the public dock for “occasional “ use then the precedent is set and there is nothing stopping him from using it more and more. This is the real danger here and this is what everyone should be concerned with. Plain and simple, if you want to operate a business here do it from the store’s private dock. Otherwise you are not welcome here and I for one will do whatever it takes to block it.
The store does not have a “private dock” that can accommodate a seaplane. It’s only dock is the gas dock


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Old 07-30-2021, 11:10 AM   #425
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Well isn’t that a shame?
So how then does it become the town’s issue simply because she doesn’t have the infrastructure?

Plain and simply, it doesn’t.
No commercial planes at the town dock.
When this goes to the town vote this will be dead.
Unfortunately we need to listen to Epic’s rants until then.
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Old 08-11-2021, 03:14 PM   #426
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Been hearing a lot of seaplane trips for the past month and wondered if there was a new ad somewhere-

Today, at the Pier 19 store, there's an ad on the window- it has Epic's plane photos, a phone number, email, and how to book online.

Maybe all he needed was advertising there and he doesn't need the dock anymore...
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Old 08-17-2021, 12:05 PM   #427
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Default Mirror lake

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I see on the website that the seaplane or in reality Float Plane is based on mirror lake. I’m curious as to what the residents think of having this based there. I see them and others come into our area a lot now and like seeing them but rolling up next to us and departing close by I may think differently.
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Old 08-17-2021, 12:56 PM   #428
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Epic will tell ya everyone on Mirror Lake loves him and has no issues with him taking off multiple times a day. Talk to many of his neighbors and you will get a completely different story. A few vocal people who support him will say on social media all is fine however many Mirror Lake residents are fed up but do not want to publicly state their displeasure and are voicing their concerns behind the scenes.
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Old 08-18-2021, 07:31 AM   #429
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How is this any different than the Mount Washington, Winnipesaukee Belle, Millie B, Lake Life, and who knows who else use the Wolfeboro town docks to generate revenue. As far as I know those are public docks owned by the town to generate revenue for a private business. I'm sure they might pay for that right to use the docks but, I don't see anyone getting all worked up over it. What's the difference?
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Old 08-18-2021, 07:57 AM   #430
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How is this any different than the Mount Washington, Winnipesaukee Belle, Millie B, Lake Life, and who knows who else use the Wolfeboro town docks to generate revenue. As far as I know those are public docks owned by the town to generate revenue for a private business. I'm sure they might pay for that right to use the docks but, I don't see anyone getting all worked up over it. What's the difference?
Those docks are either private or specifically designed for use by those businesses, not the public. As such, they do not tie up publicly designated areas.

There are comments above about the Pier 19 store/Epic creating new docks for their businesses, which I think is a fine idea.

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Old 08-24-2021, 10:30 AM   #431
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Those docks are either private or specifically designed for use by those businesses, not the public. As such, they do not tie up publicly designated areas.

There are comments above about the Pier 19 store/Epic creating new docks for their businesses, which I think is a fine idea.

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building docks on what land? It would have to be on state land or in front of private waterfront. If you aren't familiar with 19 mile bay, left of the union wharf is private waterfront and right of the gas pumps is state land. The gas docks go right up next to the states land and cannot be expanded.
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Old 09-19-2021, 09:40 AM   #432
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The seaplane pilot decided to land right in the middle of the Wolfeboro Bay boat race coarse on Saturday. Thankfully, it was during a break in the racing. He tried to park at the public docks which were reserved for the race boats. He was told that he could not, so he beached the plane on the private beach next to the docks and tied it to a tree. He was told he could not take off until the race was over (4 hours), but sure enough, 2 hours later he was on the move. I saw Marine Patrol taking to him but I don't know what was done. I guess rules don't apply to seaplanes.
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Old 09-20-2021, 07:25 PM   #433
Randy Owen
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Default Camp Belknap has joined the with yet another attorney...

At the board of selectman's meeting Monday September 13 Chip Albee identified Camp Belknap's intention to enter this issue with yet another lawsuit and with more legal bills for the town, the store and the owner of the sea plane.
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Old 09-21-2021, 06:57 AM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Barndoor Guy View Post
The seaplane pilot
Can you be more specific? Did you get the pilot's name? Did you get the tail number? Did you get an aircraft type? Because it wasn't me. What I am finding out is that most people who dislike seaplanes (like Chip) don't know the difference between one seaplane and another. Everywhere a seaplane shows up people think it's me. It's good advertising for sure, and I appreciate it!

It is nice to see that the community is opening their eyes to the fact that there are a lot of seaplanes around and that they can operate safely, and coexist even in a crazy environment like a boat race. I'm assuming the seaplane didn't have an accident or get ticketed for doing anything illegal? Glad everything worked out fine. Glad he had the sense to not land during the race (good decision) and glad he didn't destroy his airplane by coming into the docks with the high dock posts, but chose the beach instead!
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Old 09-21-2021, 08:29 AM   #435
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I live near Logan airport most of the year, so I understand the noise factor.
However, I love being outside on the deck looking up at planes of all sizes flying overhead. When I'm at the lake for my 2 weeks in the summer, I love seeing
a seaplane. Once a helicopter flew by our dock about 25 ft. altitude. I
thought it was kinda cool. Also made sure nothing was wrong.(found out
later that there's a private heliport in Gilford or somewhere else nearby).
It amazes me that when the Green Mountain Boys are up there doing drills
no one has a problem w/ the noise. Yes, it's comforting that the civil air
patrol is up there, and I see (and hear) alot of B52 flyovers at my house.
I believe there are sightseeing tours now, but I think the pilot's based out of Laconia. I'll get down from my soapbox now... good luck. Hope an outcome is happy for all.
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Old 09-21-2021, 11:13 AM   #436
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This is awesome. Thank you Camp Belknap!
It definitely was not Epic at the races. I ran the tail number.
Epic , you have balls calling out Chip. Not much brains, but balls.
Randy, you will never peacefully coexist with the camp. Just sell them your half of the island and move on. Tired of seeing your posts slamming them .
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Old 09-21-2021, 08:40 PM   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Owen View Post
At the board of selectman's meeting Monday September 13 Chip Albee identified Camp Belknap's intention to enter this issue with yet another lawsuit and with more legal bills for the town, the store and the owner of the sea plane.
I don’t believe the prospect of any lawsuit was raised. Camp Belknap’s attorney made a submission to the selectmen that apparently identified many of the existing legal impediments with running a seaplane tour business out of 19 mile bay. What was mentioned at the meeting is that the Pier 19 store would need to obtain a variance since the store is in a residential (not commercial) zone and the existing variance and site plan review did not include running a seaplane tour business from the property (recall that the store is on the permit application for the runway). This is not a new issue, and has been raised previously on this forum and with the selectmen.

The camp’s attorney also noted that they are raising safety issues with a runway in 19-mile bay with the appropriate state officials.
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