Wolfeboro Hit and Run

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Not sure we need to go down the speed limit rabbit hole again...A Sea Ray 500 can run approximately 35 knots WOT from what I saw on a test report from Boattest.

The guy was drunk and not paying attention. I'd say he probably wasn't going overly fast otherwise the damage would have been more severe, as well as the increased likelihood of passenger injuries.

Like it or not, he probably made the right choice for himself by disappearing that night. I am no expert but think that aggravated DWI along with a slew of other charges would carry a higher penalty than leaving the scene and failure to report the accident. Insurance will kick in and make restitution, and other than being the most hated guy on the lake presently he will be free to do this again.

Perhaps that upside down paradigm should change?

[John Mercier]

Changing the paradigm would take a dramatic shift in governance...

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

The Searay weighs in at approx 35,000 lbs. If it was traveling @ 10MPH, the force at impact was 175 US ton-mph... I am surprised the damage wasn't worse! (If I did the math right)

Woodsy

Even if the math is right... imagine how out of wack he had to be to hit it at 5mph. Obviously reversing engines wouldn't stop it on a dime... but that would make this captain dangerous at any speed. We wouldn't even be able to allow him to paddle a canoe without fear of something bad happening.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Not sure we need to go down the speed limit rabbit hole again...A Sea Ray 500 can run approximately 35 knots WOT from what I saw on a test report from Boattest. The guy was drunk and not paying attention. I'd say he probably wasn't going overly fast otherwise the damage would have been more severe, as well as the increased likelihood of passenger injuries. Like it or not, he probably made the right choice for himself by disappearing that night. I am no expert but think that aggravated DWI along with a slew of other charges would carry a higher penalty than leaving the scene and failure to report the accident. Insurance will kick in and make restitution, and other than being the most hated guy on the lake presently he will be free to do this again.

Explain why metal trim from the HackerCraft's deck are tangled in the Searay's prop. (And fabric--possibly the remains of PFDs from the HackerCraft).

I see it as the Searay launching itself off the permanent piling dock and shredding the Hackercraft on its way down. (Having angled itself off the keel to spare the other prop from equally severe damage: The HackerCraft acting like a floating cushion).

Subtracting 150' legal distance from each shore (to include boulders, wooden rafts, and that "permanent" bright red warning float), that "pinch-point" at Keewaydin Point is very tight for a 17-ton vessel to be traveling at such an inhumane speed--made even worse when two such craft are passing each other.

[pjard]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Moment is mass times velocity (directional speed); so for momentum to be a problem, then the speed was a variable.

If the operator was intoxicated or distracted... moving at 5 mpH instead of 10 mph would allow twice the time to react before the distance was closed.
If the operator was fully alert, 5 mph instead of 10 mph would still allow twice the time to react before the distance was closed.

So who is the guy that owned the boat? Many seem to know. What's his story?

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by ApS

Explain why metal trim from the HackerCraft's deck are tangled in the Searay's prop. (And fabric--possibly the remains of PFDs from the HackerCraft).

I see it as the Searay launching itself off the permanent piling dock and shredding the Hackercraft on its way down. (Having angled itself off the keel to spare the other prop from equally severe damage: The HackerCraft acting like a floating cushion).

Subtracting 150' legal distance from each shore (to include boulders, wooden rafts, and that "permanent" bright red warning float), that "pinch-point" at Keewaydin Point is very tight for a 17-ton vessel to be traveling at such an inhumane speed--made even worse when two such craft are passing each other.

It sounds to me like someone has been watching a few too many Dukes of Hazard re-runs…

I doubt highly that a 40k lb vessel launched over the dock with its death machine props shearing the top off the boat as it flew through the air…

[steve-on-mark]

Originally Posted by codeman671

It sounds to me like someone has been watching a few too many Dukes of Hazard re-runs…

I doubt highly that a 40k lb vessel launched over the dock with its death machine props shearing the top off the boat as it flew through the air…

Picturing the driver butt- sliding across the bow and into the waiting getaway boat..." Just a good ole boy..." . You know the rest!

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[Cobaltdeadhead]

Originally Posted by pjard

So who is the guy that owned the boat? Many seem to know. What's his story?

Only sharing because it will be public information anyway. Roger Ploof is the owner of the boat.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by steve-on-mark

Picturing the driver butt- sliding across the bow and into the waiting getaway boat..." Just a good ole boy..." . You know the rest!

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Judging by the size of the owner not a lot of sliding was going on…

[pondguy]

I think he will fit in jail just fine.

[steve-on-mark]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Judging by the size of the owner not a lot of sliding was going on…

Except for food sliding down his esophagus?

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[wentworthwhitbreadIII]

Bigger is better folks!

[ITD]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

In New Hampshire the open container law concerning alcoholic adult beverages in a motor vehicle does not include water vessels or a boat. Boating and drinking an adult beverage is legal. What's not legal is boating with a blood alcohol level higher than "0.08 higher by blood, breath or urine. Or between .03 and .08 along with other evidence."



So it is legal to be driving a motorboat, or paddling a canoe with an alcoholic beverage in one hand and the steering wheel or canoe paddle in the other hand, as long as your blood alcohol level is lower than 0.08, or eight percent.

Not a doc, but i don't think you can possibly hit 8% unless maybe while being embalmed.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by ITD

Not a doc, but i don't think you can possibly hit 8% unless maybe while being embalmed.

It is confusing and illogical but a blood alcohol of .08 does really mean .08% as the term is used medicolegally.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

It is confusing and illogical but a blood alcohol of .08 does really mean .08% as the term is used medicolegally.

Yup, but .08% is not 8%.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by ITD

Yup, but .08% is not 8%.

You are correct and FLL was not correct. OTOH blood alcohol levels medicolegally are not designated as percentages by custom. I just didn’t wish to make an issue of it.

[fatlazyless]

Yes ....... well ...... legally speaking ...... what really matters here is that in this great State of N.H. ....... one can legally paddle a canoe with a paddle in one hand and an open beer in the the other hand ....... is named the beer stroke!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by codeman671

It sounds to me like someone has been watching a few too many Dukes of Hazard re-runs…I doubt highly that a 40k lb vessel launched over the dock with its death machine props shearing the top off the boat as it flew through the air…

Take another look at the HackerCraft and the dock:

https://indepthnh.org/2023/08/13/wol...investigation/

The dock's wooden 2x8's are crushed directly downwards (unlike ice damage). The bench seat is depressed towards the splintered dock.

This crime scene is where the Searay traversed the dock at a deadly speed, continued across the secured HackerCraft--depressing the hull downwards--and shredding the forward cockpit/helm. The Searay continued across the HackerCraft wrapping the pumpkin-colored boat cover around the propeller. (Note the cover's elastic edges).

Prove me wrong.

[tis]

Now that you mention it, the boat did have a pumpkin colored cover.

[Sweet spot]

Not sure how many people named Roger Ploof live in Windham, NH, but a Roger Ploof was arrested in 2018 for Second Degree Assault.
Also interesting is that there is a Roger Ploof, Jr. who is listed as a Contractor in Pelham, NH which is where the escape boat is registered.
Interesting coincidences…

[Mr_Marty]

Originally Posted by Sweet spot

Not sure how many people named Roger Ploof live in Windham, NH, but a Roger Ploof was arrested in 2018 for Second Degree Assault.
Also interesting is that there is a Roger Ploof, Jr. who is listed as a Contractor in Pelham, NH which is where the escape boat is registered.
Interesting coincidences…

The boater is indeed a Roger Ploof Jr. He is one of the cofounders of S&R Corp. out of Lowell, MA.
https://sandrcorp.com/about/our-team/

Rumor has it that he's affiliated with the mob so I wouldn't be surprised if he has a somewhat extensive rap sheet.

Last I heard he had fled the state and was on the run. Not sure if he has been apprehended yet.

[Pricestavern]

If Roger R Ploof was his father, then Junior didn't fall far from the tree.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal.../851/7/320335/

Defendant was indicted for conspiracy to make false statements on a mortgage loan application, 18 U.S.C. §§ 1014, 656; making false statements to a national bank, 18 U.S.C. § 1014; wilful misapplication of bank funds, 18 U.S.C. § 656; and bank fraud, 18 U.S.C. § 1344. Three criminal complaints charging a narcotics offense, interstate transportation of stolen property, and unlawful structuring of a financial transaction were also filed. On the government's motion, a detention hearing was held. Based on the evidence, the magistrate concluded that while conditions of release could reasonably assure defendant's presence at trial, there was no condition or combination of conditions of release which would reasonably assure the safety of other persons and the community if the defendant were released. The magistrate stated that the government had proven by clear and convincing evidence that during the period August to October 1987, defendant had plotted at length first to injure and then to kill his girlfriend's husband. The girlfriend and her husband at that time were involved in divorce proceedings. The magistrate concluded from this that defendant was a dangerous person who "appears to have no qualms about planning criminal acts and taking steps to protect himself from being associated with the crimes afterwards." In view of defendant's apparent ruthlessness, the magistrate could not find any conditions which would reasonably assure that defendant would not be a danger to persons who had crossed him. The magistrate rejected counsel's suggestion that anyone who had had anything damaging to say about defendant to law enforcement officials had already said it and that hence there was no longer anyone defendant would want to harm. The magistrate pointed out that defendant had plotted against his girlfriend's husband after the husband had already talked to law enforcement officials. Consequently, the magistrate ordered defendant detained.

[upthesaukee]

Why to I feel this thread is going to go "bye bye"?!?!

Dave

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Why to I feel this thread is going to go "bye bye"?!?!

Dave

Overall it's been a good source of information. Like other threads, things have gone a little sideways which I don't find helpful or informative.

[pondguy]

Forgetaboutit he's on the lam..

[thinkxingu]

How is this not a story all over the news?!

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[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

How is this not a story all over the news?!

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No arrest warrants have been issued by the NH SP. just looking to talk


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[dmjr]

I am just so surprised it’s not being talked about more. I am sure both him and his friends are either on the run or hiding. Hopefully when they apprehend everyone - hopefully the will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.


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[WinterHarborGuy]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

How is this not a story all over the news?!

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Clearly, the police have shared his name with some of the victims. Plus, he was fairly well known for that boat, so other people have so surmised his identity.

Not sure why police have not shared his identity with the media. I don’t understand why they wouldnt if they are looking for him.

[dmjr]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

No arrest warrants have been issued by the NH SP. just looking to talk


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I am also wondering if they have made contact with all parties and they are keeping everything hush until their investigation is completed.


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[dmjr]

Originally Posted by WinterHarborGuy

Clearly, the police have shared his name with some of the victims. Plus, he was fairly well known for that boat, so other people have so surmised his identity.

Not sure why police have not shared his identity with the media. I don’t understand why they wouldnt if they are looking for him.

At least there’s one thing that’s clear - it will be a good while before that boat is back in the water.


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

How is this not a story all over the news?!

Yeah, you'd think all NH print media were controlled by The New York Times!

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Why to I feel this thread is going to go "bye bye"?!?!
Dave

There's personal information here that doesn't lead to resolving important details. It is unknown if the alleged operator has yet been interviewed or charged with anything related to the circumstances.

Possible charges so far:
Failure to keep a proper watch,
Failure to observe the 150' rule,
Failure to report an accident within 10 days,
Leaving the scene of an accident (without injuries),
Entering a designated swimming area while under power,

Are any of these felonies? (BWI/"Operating under the influence" remains unproven

ETA:

On occasion, my Smartphone surprises me with "Google Photos", where they play relaxing music and print photos with: "Look at what you were enjoying in 2017"...

So...the latest Google display shows a bright red float, a float-outlined swimming area, a dock, a pumpkin-colored boat cover atop a long wooden boat.

If I'd been paying more attention to the view--than to lunch--I would have witnessed (maybe even heard) this collision.

If the HackerCraft had been docked on the same side as pictured on "Google Photos", the 50-foot Searay would've entered the float-outlined swimming area first!

[John Mercier]

No. Mostly fines. With a possible misdemeanor for damages over $2000 should the accident go unreported for 15 days.
But the accident may have already been reported. Since it can be reported by the operator, the boat owner, or representative of either.

They could charge the operator with negligent operation, which would be a misdemeanor. Probably resolved with a fine up to $2000

Jail time is a possibility... but not a likely outcome.

Based on the comment about the NYT, we should be asking why Rep Bordes is not screaming and proposing stricter punishment for those that cause injury or loss in a boating accident. It would help his perennial attempt to change the speed limit if he were seen as trying to be tougher on instances of moral flaw.

[dmjr]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

No. Mostly fines. With a possible misdemeanor for damages over $2000 should the accident go unreported for 15 days.

But the accident may have already been reported. Since it can be reported by the operator, the boat owner, or representative of either.

They could charge the operator with negligent operation, which would be a misdemeanor. Probably resolved with a fine up to $2000

Jail time is a possibility... but not a likely outcome.

Based on the comment about the NYT, we should be asking why Rep Bordes is not screaming and proposing stricter punishment for those that cause injury or loss in a boating accident. It would help his perennial attempt to change the speed limit if he were seen as trying to be tougher on instances of moral flaw.

Absolutely! I wonder what his take is on the matter of this accident? I think that the state should look into having a stricter regulations on how a boat certificate is obtained and holding to the same standard as a motor vehicle driver’s license which has to be renewed.


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[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

No. Mostly fines. With a possible misdemeanor for damages over $2000 should the accident go unreported for 15 days.

But the accident may have already been reported. Since it can be reported by the operator, the boat owner, or representative of either.

They could charge the operator with negligent operation, which would be a misdemeanor. Probably resolved with a fine up to $2000

Jail time is a possibility... but not a likely outcome.

Based on the comment about the NYT, we should be asking why Rep Bordes is not screaming and proposing stricter punishment for those that cause injury or loss in a boating accident. It would help his perennial attempt to change the speed limit if he were seen as trying to be tougher on instances of moral flaw.

Great take on where is Rep Bordes on this issue.


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by dmjr

I am just so surprised it’s not being talked about more. I am sure both him and his friends are either on the run or hiding. Hopefully when they apprehend everyone - hopefully the will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.


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Tough to run when you own a business with $18MM/year in revenue

(On the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard when the weight is lead...)

[Islandbum]

Love the GD reference , just as hard to run with the weight of lead.

[mofn]

For the lawyers out there:
If the boat is not reported stolen
Not reported missing/lost
Can it be sold at auction as abandoned property?
And can a 3rd party step forward to claim it in the name of the owner, or can only the owner do that?

[lagoon]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

What is amazing to me is not one person on that Sea Ray has come forward. If my own son did something that dumb and criminal while I was on his boat, I'd turn him in.

Crap morals and values with every one of those people

I looked at the picture of the boat from a [post that was taken a few years back and it seems to be some of the same folks to me. I really doubt the kids took this boat but, that's his story and I bet he sticks to it.

[lagoon]

Originally Posted by Pricestavern

If Roger R Ploof was his father, then Junior didn't fall far from the tree.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal.../851/7/320335/

From what I can find he also had tax liens issues from both New Hampshire and Massachusetts. I think his boating days are over, at least legal boating days....

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by mofn

For the lawyers out there:
If the boat is not reported stolen
Not reported missing/lost
Can it be sold at auction as abandoned property?
And can a 3rd party step forward to claim it in the name of the owner, or can only the owner do that?

Third party representative can claim it in the name of the owner... but it doesn't have to be reported as lost or stolen. Those claims would only be made if it was lost/stolen, or in an attempt to cover the identity of the operator.
Making a false statement would move the criminal charges up.

Based on what we know, we can only infer that the operator had other issues... even more than BAC to be concerned about. That BAC level would have dropped within a 12/24 hr period to be of no legal issue.

The reporting timeline being up to 15 days means that BAC level when leaving the scene is of little to no consequence.

Operating without a valid boating certificate, or having narcotics in your system, could trigger secondary issues if you already had legal troubles from other events.

More than likely insurance will pay, heavy fines will be negotiated, and the boat returned to the owner. Boating operation certificate, if it exists, may be revoked/suspended.

The same thing actually happens in ATV/Snowmobile/Trail Bikes with some minor variation.

[KDL]

Maybe the law should be change to make the penalty for leaving the scene of an accident the same as the penalty for causing personal injury or property damage while boating intoxicated.

[Juiced06GTO]

This whole story is eerily similar to the one that happened in Boston Harbor about two years ago, with the owner of another demo company in Mass and his 36' Pursuit. Unfortunately, a girl was killed in that incident. As far as I know there were never any charges filed and it dropped out of the media quickly.

There seems to be a similar coincidence with these big demo companies, maybe some of the elected officials should look into that....

**Edit** They did end up charging the guy from Boston with manslaughter and a whole bunch of other charges. Doesn't look like it has been heard yet that I could find.

[Riviera]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

This whole story is eerily similar to the one that happened in Boston Harbor about two years ago, with the owner of another demo company in Mass and his 36' Pursuit. Unfortunately, a girl was killed in that incident. As far as I know there were never any charges filed and it dropped out of the media quickly.

There seems to be a similar coincidence with these big demo companies, maybe some of the elected officials should look into that....

**Edit** They did end up charging the guy from Boston with manslaughter and a whole bunch of other charges. Doesn't look like it has been heard yet that I could find.

Similar, but:

1. A girl died.
2. The authorities let the guy go home after everybody was rescued, with no drug or alcohol testing, and…
3. The boat was stored in a secure yard, where it burned one night, many months later.

[Juiced06GTO]

How long until the Sea Ray burns??

I didn't know that until today. An unfortunate reality is that I am in the construction industry and we do business with both of these horrible companies, and trust me they are horrible. I wish I was in a position to change that, but I'm not quite there yet...

[John Mercier]

It won't.
There are no felony charges at risk here.

[Slickcraft]

Today's Sun.

Alan

WOLFEBORO — Just shy of two weeks ago, a 50-foot SeaRay motorboat crashed into and heavily damaged both a large dock and the wooden boat tied to it in Winter Harbor.

The State Police press release that described this incident on Aug. 13, the day after the 11 p.m. crash, noted the New Hampshire towns where both the abandoned and pickup vessel are registered — Windham and Pelham, respectively — and that no injuries were reported.

Citing an ongoing investigation, State Police have declined to share any updates since and declined to allow photographs taken of the vessel.

The SeaRay was abandoned on rocks just past the dock where it crashed and the operator and passengers were picked up and fled the scene in a third vessel. Law enforcement located the pick-up boat docked at a Tuftonboro residence the following morning.

The SeaRay remains impounded at Silver Sands Marina in Gilford, donning a halo of yellow tape.

Marine Patrol is asking anyone who witnessed the crash or has additional details to contact Sgt. Nicholas Haroutunian at 603-227-2112 or Nicholas.M.Haroutunian@dos.nh.gov, or call State Police dispatch at 603-846-3333.

[steve-on-mark]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

How long until the Sea Ray burns??

I didn't know that until today. An unfortunate reality is that I am in the construction industry and we do business with both of these horrible companies, and trust me they are horrible. I wish I was in a position to change that, but I'm not quite there yet...

If it does burn, I'll need some long sticks for the marshmallows and hotdogs!



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[ApS]

A friend took pictures of the struck dock yesterday.

It's been badly crushed--as has the fencing. My friend says it was a metal fence. I thought it looked (from afar) like a long bicycle rack. Not much left of it, either.

[tis]

It's funny we haven't heard a word about it.

[Alton Bay]

Originally Posted by tis

It's funny we haven't heard a word about it.

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[ishoot308]

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...oHgKT2H-2__GV8

Dan

[ApS]

I'll go ahead and speculate (some more).

At ~11:00PM, the operator of left a residence in Tuftonboro (a town only a hundred watery yards from Wolfeboro), headed SE, passing a flashing-red marker 19, failed to turn South, continued a hundred yards until crushing the victim's dock with its 20 tons, flew over the HackerCraft (Dukes of Hazzard style--hat-tip to Codeman671), depressing the HackerCraft into the water--yet damaging the helm severely*, ripping through the pumpkin-colored boat cover (collecting part of it in the Searay's crushed starboard propeller), fleeing until running aground nearby, telephoning the party of the Tuftonboro home they'd just left, got a return lift to the same residence, thereby escaping authorities' scrutiny of the operator's condition. (Whether affected by alcohol or drugs).

The Searay could have piles of "empties" abandoned inside it.

*my recollection (and one old photograph) has the HackerCraft docked on the northern (other) side of the dock, wrapped in a pumpkin-colored boat cover.

Those Tuftonboro residences bordering noisy highway 109 are a haven for local (and visiting) noisy oversized boats.

[granitehead]

Wish he'd snapped off that SeaRay rudder though... then I'd have bookends! Found this one south of 40 Islands.

[ApS]

I've learned a little bit more:

1) The 50' Searay traveled less than 100' before grounding on shore. (Some of that distance was "in flight"). There would have been a sudden stop--without airbags. (So expect injuries).

2) I was shown a photo of the getaway boat. It was photographed by flashlight, but three occupants can be seen: one especially clearly.

Because of the "on going" investigation, I shouldn't disclose anything further.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ApS

I've learned a little bit more:

1) The 50' Searay traveled less than 100' before grounding on shore. (Some of that distance was "in flight"). There would have been a sudden stop--without airbags. (So expect injuries).

2) I was shown a photo of the getaway boat. It was photographed by flashlight, but three occupants can be seen: one especially clearly.

Because of the "on going" investigation, I shouldn't disclose anything further.

I am not sure what you believe you have learned that wasn't already know, and public knowledge.....

I for one am just glad, that we haven't found out about any deaths, or serious injuries, related to this..... Don't however let that make you think, I don't have thoughts about what went on, and what should happen to the people involved.... Maybe the details of the case will come out, maybe they won't.....

[mofn]

The Carroll County grand jury sits tomorrow, then on 10/20, 11/17, 12/20.
Given the date of the accident and tomorrow, can anybody with experience tell us how long this type of investigation would take to be ready to proceed to a jury?

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by mofn

The Carroll County grand jury sits tomorrow, then on 10/20, 11/17, 12/20.
Given the date of the accident and tomorrow, can anybody with experience tell us how long this type of investigation would take to be ready to proceed to a jury?

The Grand Jury at this point and time is not relevant to this case. Assuming the investigation is not concluded, it is indeterminate as to weather or not there are charges that can be brought by the DA, or questionable charges that the DA would bring to the Grand Jury for evaluation of weather there was any wrong doing.

Grand Jury, doesn't equal a Jury Trial....

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by ApS

I've learned a little bit more:

1) The 50' Searay traveled less than 100' before grounding on shore. (Some of that distance was "in flight"). There would have been a sudden stop--without airbags. (So expect injuries).

2) I was shown a photo of the getaway boat. It was photographed by flashlight, but three occupants can be seen: one especially clearly.

Because of the "on going" investigation, I shouldn't disclose anything further.

Chances are we have ALL seen the picture you are referring to. The one showing the port side of the boat with the bow numbers clearly depicted, the back of the guy that owns the Sea Ray with a gray shirt on, the guy in the blue tank top covering his face, and the woman in pink...

It still amazes me that you think the 50' Sea Ray was airborne, landed and ended up grounded, but has such minimal damage to itself?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Chances are we have ALL seen the picture you are referring to. The one showing the port side of the boat with the bow numbers clearly depicted, the back of the guy that owns the Sea Ray with a gray shirt on, the guy in the blue tank top covering his face, and the woman in pink...

It still amazes me that you think the 50' Sea Ray was airborne, landed and ended up grounded, but has such minimal damage to itself?

And that nobody was SERIOUSLY injured--that about how fast a boat would be traveling to get airborne

[ApS]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Chances are we have ALL seen the picture you are referring to. The one showing the port side of the boat with the bow numbers clearly depicted, the back of the guy that owns the Sea Ray with a gray shirt on, the guy in the blue tank top covering his face, and the woman in pink... It still amazes me that you think the 50' Sea Ray was airborne, landed and ended up grounded, but has such minimal damage to itself?

The image I saw may have been greatly enlarged. It displayed a boat amidship with three people. I'll ask to see it again.

Two things we DON'T know:

1) How much damage did the Searay take?

The Searay has a major structural keel of about 8 inches of depth. (Protecting its stern-thruster among other things).

2) What injuries may have been suffered?

The getaway boat apparently showed up promptly and transported some number of people away. That boat should have been impounded. The impounded Searay has yellow crime scene tape wrapped very carefully around the foredeck stanchions. MPs protecting blood evidence for DNA-matching?

One thing can be deduced from the crime scene:

The Searay hit a piling dock, possibly collecting small wood splinters in its propeller and keel--and fiberglass within the dock's planking. That dock stands "proud" of the water by about 16 inches. The Searay would have been clear of the water by the same measure--or more:

I'd call that "airborne", but some might call it something else.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by ApS

The image I saw may have been greatly enlarged. It displayed a boat amidship with three people. I'll ask to see it again.

Two things we DON'T know:

1) How much damage did the Searay take?

The Searay has a major structural keel of about 8 inches of depth. (Protecting its stern-thruster among other things).

2) What injuries may have been suffered?

The getaway boat apparently showed up promptly and transported some number of people away. That boat should have been impounded. The impounded Searay has yellow crime scene tape wrapped very carefully around the foredeck stanchions. MPs protecting blood evidence for DNA-matching?

One thing can be deduced from the crime scene:

The Searay hit a piling dock, possibly collecting small wood splinters in its propeller and keel--and fiberglass within the dock's planking. That dock stands "proud" of the water by about 16 inches. The Searay would have been clear of the water by the same measure--or more:

I'd call that "airborne", but some might call it something else.

I have been to the dock in question…the Searay didn’t go over the dock, it went through it never leaving the water.

Dan

[LIforrelaxin]

What we have here is a play on words.... "airborne" to some means on thing well to others it means something totally different.

Had the searay been traveling fast enough to get Airborne by my definition, it wouldn't have come to rest where it did, it would also likely not have sustained so little damage... the inertia involved would have made for a complete different accident scene...

At a speed of 10-15 mph, that boat would have had enough inertia, to plow through the dock, shove the hacker craft underneath it, and eventually beach itself like it did...

Could it have come up out of the water as it did so before crushing the dock underneath it... Likely a little.... but that isn't airborne....

There is nothing about this accident that indicates speed or power had anything to do with it. It is likely in my opinion, that the boat was traveling at a reasonable speed, given the conditions.....

What is also obvious to me, is that the captain of the vessel, didn't keep a proper look out, or pay attention to his heading.... What lead to that well, we can speculate... but is it going to be provable... time will tell....

[TheTimeTraveler]

One thing to remember about this accident: It happened at night and boating conditions were likely pitch black..........

[sunset on the dock]

Ok folks, two plus months since the accident and I'm getting impatient How much longer do we wait for answers and follow up consequences for this crash in Winter Harbor? And it would appear that this is not the family's first brush with the law.

Do they get off scott free? Will insurance cover the damages given the hit and run circumstances?

[mofn]

The Carroll County grand jury sits on Friday 10/20, then 11/17, 12/20. For nipple rock accident it was 2 months +/- to charges filed?

[Descant]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

...Do they get off scott free? Will insurance cover the damages given the hit and run circumstances?

No, and yes.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

And that nobody was SERIOUSLY injured--that about how fast a boat would be traveling to get airborne.

Timely law enforcement interviews will determine if nobody was SERIOUSLY injured. (Or "merely" knocked unconscious). Had the perpetrators departed the state that night, they could have been willingly hiding injuries.

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I have been to the dock in question…the Searay didn’t go over the dock, it went through it never leaving the water.

Dan

View the drone photos here: https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...7&postcount=37

While the drone almost misses a direct overhead shot, the drone still shows all of the intact joists (stringers) directly depressed under water. Enough intact planking remains to almost reassemble the dock! Was every splintered plank removed before the drone took to the air?

The drone's overhead video also shows how close the Searay came to also striking the neighboring dock and boat.

I think I'll take my collection of reflectors and secure them to my dock next Spring!

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

One thing to remember about this accident: It happened at night and boating conditions were likely pitch black..........

Darkness, nor any weather condition, doesn't affect the rules of navigation to "Always Keep a Proper Watch".

[ApS]

If insurance covers this Hackercraft, will the insurance company offer a new Hackercraft?

From the Hackercraft factory in NY, their cheapest model starts at $235,000.

https://robbreport.com/motors/marine.../hacker-craft/

Or a replacement "previously-owned" Hackercraft--at $215,000?

https://hackerboat.com/boat/hull-519...YlN9Q10qzdoTxj

Or tow it to the nearest restoration shop for a local repair? (My guess).

Or tow it to the factory for a factory repair? (What the owner would probably want).

[Descant]

ApS

As noted in your post, all speculation. You'd have to read the policy.

In the meantime, it really isn't the Hacker owner's policy that matters. The "guilty" party's liability insurance will be the settling payment. The owner's company may pay, but they will subrogate against the other party. No reason they can't be "generous" if that's the coverage i.e. replacement vs Actual Cash Value.

In most of these posts, I continue to be amazed at the hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars people pay for insurance and there is very little understanding of how insurance and liability really plays out.

Do you really know what you bought for insurance on your boat? Or if you damage somebody else's boat? Maybe you didn't do the damage, but you're the accused party? What does your insurance cover then?

[tis]

Originally Posted by ApS

If insurance covers this Hackercraft, will the insurance company offer a new Hackercraft?

From the Hackercraft factory in NY, their cheapest model starts at $235,000.

https://robbreport.com/motors/marine.../hacker-craft/

Or a replacement "previously-owned" Hackercraft--at $215,000?

https://hackerboat.com/boat/hull-519...YlN9Q10qzdoTxj

Or tow it to the nearest restoration shop for a local repair? (My guess).

Or tow it to the factory for a factory repair? (What the owner would probably want).

The boat was hauled back to the factory for repair. It was taken to the old boat repair shop on 28 first and then Hackercraft came and got it.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

What ever happened to the guy who caused the wreckage, then disappeared? Was he ever caught and charged?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

What ever happened to the guy who caused the wreckage, then disappeared? Was he ever caught and charged?

That entire thing got squashed pretty good...doubt anyone will ever hear anything...

Dan

[Dad207]

Unlikely it was squashed, more likely there was no evidence of the actual captain piloting the boat. Criminal liability depends proving facts established by witnesses and documents, proven "beyond a reasonable doubt." Here: collision at night, no witnesses, passengers and captain phone helpful friend who assist them in leaving the scene shortly thereafter. Captain tells investigators that the boat was stolen, or nothing at all, he is not required to talk to the police or authorities in any way. Friends on the boat are unknown and/or won't talk.

Proof: a boat wreck, with no evidence of who was at the helm. We can all speculate, and I speculate that that speculation is correct. Absent a witness positively identifying the captain at the moment of impact, all you have is an insurance matter, nothing close to a case "beyond a reasonable doubt." In the insurance case, the Searay's owner tells his insurance carrier that the boat was stolen, and he knew nothing of it until the next morning. No proof to the contrary. Of course he left the keys in the boat, doesn't everyone in this safe place?

[8gv]

What about leaving the scene of an accident?

If the owner were to tell the insurance company that it was stolen would they not require a police report?

If the boat "theft" were reported, would that potentially lead to a charge of filing a false report?

[dickiej]

How are people convinced by circumstantial evidence? A murder case, for example, with no witnesses, no self incrimination, no direct evidence, but damning circumstantial evidence? It happens all the time.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Dad207

Unlikely it was squashed, more likely there was no evidence of the actual captain piloting the boat. Criminal liability depends proving facts established by witnesses and documents, proven "beyond a reasonable doubt." Here: collision at night, no witnesses, passengers and captain phone helpful friend who assist them in leaving the scene shortly thereafter. Captain tells investigators that the boat was stolen, or nothing at all, he is not required to talk to the police or authorities in any way. Friends on the boat are unknown and/or won't talk.

Proof: a boat wreck, with no evidence of who was at the helm. We can all speculate, and I speculate that that speculation is correct. Absent a witness positively identifying the captain at the moment of impact, all you have is an insurance matter, nothing close to a case "beyond a reasonable doubt." In the insurance case, the Searay's owner tells his insurance carrier that the boat was stolen, and he knew nothing of it until the next morning. No proof to the contrary. Of course he left the keys in the boat, doesn't everyone in this safe place?

No witnesses??....I saw pics online of everyone up close in the getaway boat taken that night at the accident scene! People witnessed the crash!

Look deeper into this guys background...you will see why nothing will come of it...

Dan

[The Real BigGuy]

Dad207, I agree with your summation. Unfortunately, people watch crime/court dramas on TV and in the movies and think that is actually how things happen. It is fantasy vs. reality as you explained it.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by 8gv

What about leaving the scene of an accident?

If the owner were to tell the insurance company that it was stolen would they not require a police report?

If the boat "theft" were reported, would that potentially lead to a charge of filing a false report?

Lying on an insurance claim would be criminal. By there's no requirement to file a claim

[Dad207]

Yup, the witnesses were the people on the boat (family and friends) who are not going to turn the guy in, unless they can be pressured to do so. Since some may not be known, and there is no crime that the passengers committed, no way for prosecutors to pressure them.

False police report/ false insurance claim? Only false if there is evidence (again, witnesses and documents) showing that the owner (or someone else) was in fact piloting the boat that night at the time of the crash. So long as the people who were on the boat that night do not step up and do the right thing, there is no case.

[Descant]

There's a lot of speculation here, and it's a great game with no apparent rules, so here goes:

Hackercraft is insured by company A. Sea Ray is insured by Company B. Company A pays for repairs to the Hacker and subrogates against B. There is a bailment situation, so Hacker owner will get his deductible back. The Sea Ray, company B, is insured and there is nothing in the policy that requires a specific person to be driving, so the Sea Ray damage is covered by company B.
Now, follow this. The Sea Ray was purchased with a loan, say for $1,000,000, with 20% down. The boat is totaled, and the bank gets paid their $800,000 as the mortgagee/additional insured. They're happyy--they m,ade money on the loan. The owner bought his lakefront McMansion just before the pandemic for $750,000 and used a HELOC for the down payment on the boat. He can now sell the house (after all, he's done boating) for $2,000,000, pays off all the debt and has funds available to buy elsewhere. Nobody was hurt, nobody loses money, nobody gets a ticket. Ain't this a great country?

[Dad207]

Absent an honest person or two coming forward, this is just about right. And we complain about insurance rates, and this is how it happens.

[SAB1]

The beautiful world of non accountability we live in…..

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Dad207

Absent an honest person or two coming forward, this is just about right. And we complain about insurance rates, and this is how it happens.

Pretty sure the Sea Ray insurance would cover the damage regardless of a crime conviction or charge.

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Pretty sure the Sea Ray insurance would cover the damage regardless of a crime conviction or charge.

Agree. Especially if an attorney involved.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

“No consequences for bad behavior”. It’s a sad commentary, starting from childhood and continuing through adulthood.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

There's a lot of speculation here, and it's a great game with no apparent rules, so here goes:

Hackercraft is insured by company A. Sea Ray is insured by Company B. Company A pays for repairs to the Hacker and subrogates against B. There is a bailment situation, so Hacker owner will get his deductible back. The Sea Ray, company B, is insured and there is nothing in the policy that requires a specific person to be driving, so the Sea Ray damage is covered by company B.
Now, follow this. The Sea Ray was purchased with a loan, say for $1,000,000, with 20% down. The boat is totaled, and the bank gets paid their $800,000 as the mortgagee/additional insured. They're happyy--they m,ade money on the loan. The owner bought his lakefront McMansion just before the pandemic for $750,000 and used a HELOC for the down payment on the boat. He can now sell the house (after all, he's done boating) for $2,000,000, pays off all the debt and has funds available to buy elsewhere. Nobody was hurt, nobody loses money, nobody gets a ticket. Ain't this a great country?

Does the boat owner lose any devaluation?
If he bought the house for $750,000 and sells for $2,000,000 but has to repay the HELOC, and the boat has devalued with the insurer paying the lower valuation... doesn't the boat owner come out short of full profit?
Or am I missing something?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

“No consequences for bad behavior”. It’s a sad commentary, starting from childhood and continuing through adulthood.

Depends. Without knowing the facts... we do not know what laws may have been broken.

Was the operator going too fast? Too fast relative to the shoreline/etc? Was the operator under the influence? Or was the operator just not paying attention -''failing to keep watch''?

A BWI, depending on other factors, would be the most devastating... but even then it might only be a first offense and the operator would live with it.

In the past, accidents that had the loss of life didn't significantly affect the operators, so this accident with no known injuries would mostly fall to the insurance claim; that should have been expected.

[CrownRay]

Not sure if this is related, but just saw a 2004 SeaRay 500 pop up on Facebook marketplace. Location was "laconia"

The name is "WheelSea"

Looks just like it

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by CrownRay

Not sure if this is related, but just saw a 2004 SeaRay 500 pop up on Facebook marketplace. Location was "laconia"

The name is "WheelSea"

Looks just like it

Its not the same boat. That one is down in Portsmouth. The one up here doesn't have a name on it in the picture I have, and doesn't have the sat dome on the roof.

[Cobaltdeadhead]

Arrest made

https://www.wmur.com/article/man-arr...sh-nh/60620407

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Cobaltdeadhead

Arrest made

https://www.wmur.com/article/man-arr...sh-nh/60620407

While this is interesting, it isn't really the operator that caused the incident, it is the "Rescue Boat" driver.... that got the culprit away from the scene. However hopefully it is a sign, that there are more arrests to be made....

[tis]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

While this is interesting, it isn't really the operator that caused the incident, it is the "Rescue Boat" driver.... that got the culprit away from the scene. However hopefully it is a sign, that there are more arrests to be made....

I was surprised too. I expected the article would be about the operator being arrested, although maybe they can't prove anything because he did leave the scene. Maybe this is the only thing they can prove?