Investment Options ?

[bigdog]

I'm looking for investment options in today's crazy times....

Stock market - Forget It !
Bonds - Nope !
Gold & Precious Metals - Can't take a gold bar to Wal-Mart or Hannaford
Annuities - Long term, and big penalties if withdrawn before maturity

Which leaves real estate ! Not interested in residential housing or commercial.
I'm thinking of residential land, because God's not making anymore
I realize that land is not really liquid asset, but in today's market, it could turn-over in a reasonable time-frame if I needed to cash-out. By reasonable time-frame, I mean within 6-12 months.

My money is losing money just sitting in the bank, and with the expectation that inflation will most likely be with us for the next several years, I figure real estate is my best bet to hedge against the eroding dollar and interest rates.

No plans to rush into purchasing, but if the opportunity rises you have to strike when the iron is hot !

This said, what towns' around the lake are most appealing for investment opportunities ?

[winterh]

Bitcoin.
Ethereum.
Assorted alt coins

[FlyingScot]

I won't presume to tell you how to invest, but one gigantic difference between real estate as you describe it, and a typical buy and hold portfolio of equity and debt index funds from someplace like Vanguard or Fidelity, is that the real estate requires a huge amount of work. It's as much a hobby or part time job as it is an investment. This could be a plus or a minus, depending on your interests

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I won't presume to tell you how to invest, but one gigantic difference between real estate as you describe it, and a typical buy and hold portfolio of equity and debt index funds from someplace like Vanguard or Fidelity, is that the real estate requires a huge amount of work. It's as much a hobby or part time job as it is an investment. This could be a plus or a minus, depending on your interests

Quite a bit worse. Unlike a REIT that has a portfolio with some diversified risk, a single property - raw land - has heavy acquisition costs, liquidation costs, and heavy carrying costs.

[Descant]

Unless you have enough land to hunt, snowmobile, or harvest, land is pretty boring. I think I'd rather see something that lets me have fun with my grandchildren. A collection of pinball machines, for example. Or maybe a nice triple cockpit antique speedboat? Antique or classic cars can be fun and profitable.
There are real estate projects that give better leverage than vacant land and generate some cash flow too. I have a friend who has done well with self storage--No tenant has ever called with a plumbing problem on a weekend or holiday. Same with boat slips--prices and rents are still climbing, and tenants don't call with problems. Rents are paid annually, (at least at MVYC) so no problem with late payers.

Have fun.

Old standbys: collectible art, oriental rugs, jewelry, Race/stud horses.

[mswlogo]

Land is probably one if the riskiest things.
Stock market, investing conservatively, is a pretty good bet.

Descant, good point about self storage. Big money in that.

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Quite a bit worse. Unlike a REIT that has a portfolio with some diversified risk, a single property - raw land - has heavy acquisition costs, liquidation costs, and heavy carrying costs.

IMHO, land is a terrible choice. carrying costs and lack of liquidity make it a nonstarter. you discount stocks out of hand and I don't know why. over the long run, stock index funds are tough to beat and completely liquid with essentially zero cost as vanguard has index funds with mgmt fees under .1%. SWTSX is vanguard's total market index and is a good place to start. obviously no assurances can be made but given the choices it's probably the most logical.

oh and crypto is a complete casino. good luck with that in ten years.

[baygo]

Don’t put all your eggs in one basket. It’s also very important to recognize cycles when making a decision. Real estate values are at a peak right now, And like you said about gold you cannot take a piece of real estate to Walmart.

Cryptocurrency is extremely volatile and with so many new ones coming up on a daily basis very risky. It’s Fiat currency!!! There has never been a fiat currency survive through time.

Do you hope to make money with your investment or hope to preserve capital? I like silver. 10oz bullion bars. It’s a tangible asset, and an industrial metal, so there will always be demand. I will always accept them in exchange for A bottle of booze or a bar tab

[garysanfran]

Land creates no cash flow...And you'll have to pay a yearly tax.

Your first step is to do a self-analysis on your tolerance for risk. What is your time frame? Time is extremely important.

Look at the historical return of any investment over time.

Diversity and time are key.

When I first moved to San Fran, I went to an open house in Pacific Heights...An incredible mansion for sale for $125,000. I was making $600/month and thought I'd never be able to buy real estate there....Every real estate "bubble" has historically fell by the wayside (factoring time) as values continue to rise. Today that house would sell for around $10 million.

Is there an R.E. bubble today? Probably, but what about the factor of time?

Stock market?...Look at a time table...

On December 1, 1984 the S&P 500 was 181.14. Today it's at 4,363.33.

I tend to be a contrarian when I invest. I don't buy stock when everyone else is buying, I buy when it's being sold off.

I bought an apartment building in San Fran when interest rates were "floating" at 18% in 1981 and no one was buying. Best investment I could have made at age 30.

[MAXUM]

A good well diversified portfolio, a steady hand in not making rash or large moves based on market conditions, plus time is the key to success. Simple as that. Disciplined investors are rewarded. Everyone else that does exotic investments and chase trends take huge risks. Sometimes it works, often times it doesn't.

[LikeLakes]

As so many above have echoed, land would be a really poor choice for what you described. You quickly say you don't want residential or commercial real estate, but they are the best long term bet IMO if you wanted to put money into RE. I include boat slips or self storage or car washes in the commercial category, all are interesting investments.

Otherwise, like Broadhopper suggested, I'd recommend getting a well regarded investment adviser. They will listen to your needs, risk tolerance, look at your current asset mix, and advise accordingly.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

As so many above have echoed, land would be a really poor choice for what you described. You quickly say you don't want residential or commercial real estate, but they are the best long term bet IMO if you wanted to put money into RE. I include boat slips or self storage or car washes in the commercial category, all are interesting investments.

Otherwise, like Broadhopper suggested, I'd recommend getting a well regarded investment adviser. They will listen to your needs, risk tolerance, look at your current asset mix, and advise accordingly.

I absolutely agree with a well graded investment advisor. However I will try to stay away from the advisers employed by banks or credit unions as they tend to be very transient. I would recommend instead of going to a particular brokerage retaining in money manager. Money manager fees tend to be higher than brokerages but your returns are usually exponentially better


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[Descant]

Did I miss the answers? The OP asked about which towns might have good opportunities, and we all went off about why we don't like real estate. : suspect, without doing my own research, that if you get a town or two away from Winnipesaukee, there are some good opportunities to buy a parcel of say, 50-100 acres, take it through the sub division approval process and then sell to a developer. Still a lot of up front costs, but you don't pay the land use change tax until actually sold. You might be able to harvest. I'd look at the Barnsteads, which have, I think, nine lakes.

Realtor.com lists 25 acrss in Barnstead fore $165K and 127 acres in Belmont for $250K.

[Mr. V]

Why not "think locally" and invest in local projects, assuming you can find them?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

IMHO, land is a terrible choice. carrying costs and lack of liquidity make it a nonstarter. you discount stocks out of hand and I don't know why. over the long run, stock index funds are tough to beat and completely liquid with essentially zero cost as vanguard has index funds with mgmt fees under .1%. SWTSX is vanguard's total market index and is a good place to start. obviously no assurances can be made but given the choices it's probably the most logical.

oh and crypto is a complete casino. good luck with that in ten years.

Because the OP stated they were not looking in those directions.
They stated they were looking to real estate. REIT is the closest you can come in real estate to investing in a comparable stock or bond fund.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Because the OP stated they were not looking in those directions.
They stated they were looking to real estate. REIT is the closest you can come in real estate to investing in a comparable stock or bond fund.

Buying a PIECE of land is like buying a SINGLE Stock.

Google luck with that.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Buying a PIECE of land is like buying a SINGLE Stock.

Google luck with that.

REIT isn't a single stock. It is a portfolio of properties... like buying a stock fund.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

REIT isn't a single stock. It is a portfolio of properties... like buying a stock fund.

I wasn’t referring to REIT’s, sorry my post wasn’t directed at the later part of your post.

REIT’s is a good suggestion.

[Shreddy]

I have a gorgeous piece of land in Moultonborough. Everything is for sale for the right price

[fatlazyless]

With your savings held in a .... https://www.mvsb.com/personal/deposit-rates/ .... personal deposit savings account your money is safe but you basically make little to NO INTEREST on your deposited savings money.

So, is best to keep the money in the bank and drive your car to 300,000-miles or longer, and buy all your clothes for $3.20/shirt at the https://www.stvdplaconia.org ...... Tuesday opening at 10-am is 30%-off for seniors, day! Plus, stay away from restaurants!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

With your savings held in a .... https://www.mvsb.com/personal/deposit-rates/ .... personal deposit savings account your money is safe but you basically make little to NO INTEREST on your deposited savings money.

So, is best to keep the money in the bank and drive your car to 300,000-miles or longer, and buy all your clothes for $3.20/shirt at the https://www.stvdplaconia.org ...... Tuesday opening at 10-am is 30%-off for seniors, day! Plus, stay away from restaurants!

Walmart stock pays a nice dividend.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Walmart stock pays a nice dividend.

If you look at a one year chart for WMT, it looks like it has done a double top and could be heading down from it's current price, so now is the time to go SHORT on WMT.

On the other hand, if it goes back up you can get stopped out and loose big ..... and be left with nothing except your old foam swim noodles ..... !!!

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Because the OP stated they were not looking in those directions.
They stated they were looking to real estate. REIT is the closest you can come in real estate to investing in a comparable stock or bond fund.

Nobody has discussed whether the land will be financed or bought out right. Typically, banks don’t like to finance land and if they do the LTV is low, maybe 50% to a well qualified buyer. As others have noted there is no cash flow but there are expenses such as real estate taxes and P&I payments. What is your desire OP?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Nobody has discussed whether the land will be financed or bought out right. Typically, banks don’t like to finance land and if they do the LTV is low, maybe 50% to a well qualified buyer. As others have noted there is no cash flow but there are expenses such as real estate taxes and P&I payments. What is your desire OP?

I would think that a loan's interest would negate ROI unless keeping it for a lonnng time, especially given the currently elevated prices.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Nobody has discussed whether the land will be financed or bought out right. Typically, banks don’t like to finance land and if they do the LTV is low, maybe 50% to a well qualified buyer. As others have noted there is no cash flow but there are expenses such as real estate taxes and P&I payments. What is your desire OP?

The REIT would still be better. More diversified, lower carry costs, and lower acquisition costs.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The REIT would still be better. More diversified, lower carry costs, and lower acquisition costs.

Only if you pay very close attention to the composition of the REIT. Anything that is heavily invested in "commercial" property I would be very scared of. Office and retail property is probably not a winner long term with online shopping and hybrid or full on remote working becoming more prevalent.

Holdings in that space are everything when assessing the overall risk vs reward.

[dickiej]

Foam noodle stock is always a wise investment.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The REIT would still be better. More diversified, lower carry costs, and lower acquisition costs.

REIT's are required to pay out 90% of income in dividends. In a bull market, this leaves little extra for investing in new properties and organic growth, so the per share value may suffer. The dividends may be a good part of a diversified portfolio, but an REIT overweight portfolio may not be a good idea. Actually as an aggressive but diversified investor, I can't think of anyplace I would put a majority of my money in a single type of investment, especially as the lead component. BUT, no risk, no reward. My father always told me to take risks early in life "because you can always make it back".

Different perspective: ~45 years ago my sister and BIL bought 600 acres. ASAP, they sold 400 and had minimal $$ exposure on the remaining 200 acres. Tree farmers. They moved onto the land from away 25 years ago. In future, my niece will inherit and plans to move here. To them, this was a great "investment". Maybe we all need to re-think "investment" and think about our grandchildren instead of ourselves.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Descant

Different perspective: ~45 years ago my sister and BIL bought 600 acres. ASAP, they sold 400 and had minimal $$ exposure on the remaining 200 acres. Tree farmers. They moved onto the land from away 25 years ago. In future, my niece will inherit and plans to move here. To them, this was a great "investment". Maybe we all need to re-think "investment" and think about our grandchildren instead of ourselves.

If this property is in NH, one thing to be careful of is the long term holding of the property in question. Since NH lacks any broad based tax and relies solely on property taxes, this eventually will become a big problem for realestate investors. Especially those that are holding property in a reduced or tax deferred status, such as a tree farm or current use. It is no surprise that the pressure to develop and need to feed the insatiable appetite for local and state spending will put pressure on these programs to either reduce their advantage or simply get rid of them. It seems that there is a always something about these being discussed which if you read the tea leaves probably means it is not a matter of if but when that advantage is gone.

So from my point of view NH is for the most part a toxic place to invest in realestate due to the unpredictable carrying costs of property taxes. Not that it doesn't exist elsewhere but it is far more acute here that any oscillation in spending directly hits property owners and without regard to the impact of the person's ability to pay. Therefore many properties such as the one described even if owned outright may be lost for no other reason than the tax burden becomes to great. Of course nobody really cares that multigenerational properties are lost in this manner, only that there is somebody ready and willing to buy and take over the increased tax burden willingly. It is a sad but vicious cycle, but as they say, that is what they call "progress".

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

So from my point of view NH is for the most part a toxic place to invest in realestate due to the unpredictable carrying costs of property taxes. Not that it doesn't exist elsewhere but it is far more acute here that any oscillation in spending directly hits property owners and without regard to the impact of the person's ability to pay. Therefore many properties such as the one described even if owned outright may be lost for no other reason than the tax burden becomes to great. Of course nobody really cares that multigenerational properties are lost in this manner, only that there is somebody ready and willing to buy and take over the increased tax burden willingly. It is a sad but vicious cycle, but as they say, that is what they call "progress".

Bingo! Why the Walmart side of the lake will become another 'Miami'.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

If this property is in NH, one thing to be careful of is the long term holding of the property in question. Since NH lacks any broad based tax and relies solely on property taxes, this eventually will become a big problem for realestate investors. Especially those that are holding property in a reduced or tax deferred status, such as a tree farm or current use. It is no surprise that the pressure to develop and need to feed the insatiable appetite for local and state spending will put pressure on these programs to either reduce their advantage or simply get rid of them. It seems that there is a always something about these being discussed which if you read the tea leaves probably means it is not a matter of if but when that advantage is gone.

So from my point of view NH is for the most part a toxic place to invest in realestate due to the unpredictable carrying costs of property taxes. Not that it doesn't exist elsewhere but it is far more acute here that any oscillation in spending directly hits property owners and without regard to the impact of the person's ability to pay. Therefore many properties such as the one described even if owned outright may be lost for no other reason than the tax burden becomes to great. Of course nobody really cares that multigenerational properties are lost in this manner, only that there is somebody ready and willing to buy and take over the increased tax burden willingly. It is a sad but vicious cycle, but as they say, that is what they call "progress".

Being taxed out of your home applies to any owned real estate, not just woodlots. Towns benefit from timber tax as well as property tax. The owner of a single family home in a neighborhood is more susceptible than the wood lot owner whose property produces some sustainable level of income. Many woodlots are part of various conservation easements, giving additional protection.

[longislander]

In NH, 10 acres and more, can be taxed at a reduced rate, if declared "current Use"; Google it.

An additional reduction, if declared recreational use, in current use; e.g., letting snowmobilers go thru the property, etc.

You can restrict motorized vehicles and still claim current use with the low tax rate.

Actual Example for "current use":
Bought three years ago, 34 acres in Moultonborough that was in "current use" and annual town property tax was $24; not a typo ... twenty four dollars per year for 34 acres on land.

Took out of current use, a little under 2 acres for new-build house and driveway from the 34 acres. Was Taxed 10% of the assessed value of the just under 2 acres, and the rest on the property was still current use with very low tax rate.

On-going tax rate reflects just under 2 acres at regular assessed tax rate and balance of the 34 acres tax at the low current use rate.

Anyone with ten or more acres of vacant land should be looking at "current use", to pay a very reduced annual town tax.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by longislander

In NH, 10 acres and more, can be taxed at a reduced rate, if declared "current Use"; Google it.

An additional reduction, if declared recreational use, in current use; e.g., letting snowmobilers go thru the property, etc.

You can restrict motorized vehicles and still claim current use with the low tax rate.

Actual Example for "current use":
Bought three years ago, 34 acres in Moultonborough that was in "current use" and annual town property tax was $24; not a typo ... twenty four dollars per year for 34 acres on land.

Took out of current use, a little under 2 acres for new-build house and driveway from the 34 acres. Was Taxed 10% of the assessed value of the just under 2 acres, and the rest on the property was still current use with very low tax rate.

On-going tax rate reflects just under 2 acres at regular assessed tax rate and balance of the 34 acres tax at the low current use rate.

Anyone with ten or more acres of vacant land should be looking at "current use", to pay a very reduced annual town tax.

Maxum's point is those generous programs may disappear.

I know half a dozen families that were "taxed" out of their home in NH over the years. And I know several planning on it. They know they can't afford to stay after they retire. I don't know of any in MA.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

I know half a dozen families that were "taxed" out of their home in NH over the years. And I know several planning on it. They know they can't afford to stay after they retire. I don't know of any in MA.

This phenomenon is often misunderstood or overstated. First, many communities have programs designed to let strapped seniors slide on taxes until their house is sold in the future. Second, although many reverse mortgages have been shown to be predatory, today there are reasonable and fair reverse mortgages that allow people to pull equity out of their homes.

Individuals need to do their own homework here, not rely on rando posters (like me). But if an older person's real goal is to stay in their beloved home, there are options available. Of course, if folks are looking at a massive run up in value, and they want the cash, that's cool too. But it's not being taxed out of one's nest.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Individuals need to do their own homework here, not rely on rando posters (like me). But if an older person's real goal is to stay in their beloved home, there are options available. Of course, if folks are looking at a massive run up in value, and they want the cash, that's cool too. But it's not being taxed out of one's nest.

Partly right. The family estate on the lake was 'taxed out' in the late '90s when the state took over evaluations using the 'view' tax. Neither the state or town had options back then other than veteran status. This happens to a lot of locals.
Estate has been part of the family since 1892. Beautiful 'On Golden Pond' fishing cottage overlooking the Broads. Unfortunately, the late '90s was not the time to maximize profits as it was in a recession.

As for woodlots/farms, we made the decision to set up our farm as a non-profit trust. This saves us a lot of money. When we were hounded by developers to sell and become rich, we put the trust under the Belknap Conservatory umbrella. To us this is the best investment, preserving land for the future generations!

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Partly right. The family estate on the lake was 'taxed out' in the late '90s when the state took over evaluations using the 'view' tax. Neither the state or town had options back then other than veteran status. This happens to a lot of locals.
Estate has been part of the family since 1892. Beautiful 'On Golden Pond' fishing cottage overlooking the Broads. Unfortunately, the late '90s was not the time to maximize profits as it was in a recession.

As for woodlots/farms, we made the decision to set up our farm as a non-profit trust. This saves us a lot of money. When we were hounded by developers to sell and become rich, we put the trust under the Belknap Conservatory umbrella. To us this is the best investment, preserving land for the future generations!

There is no ''view tax''. The ''view'' is simply part of the market value of a property like any other feature that potential purchasers are willing to pay more for.

Assessors look toward what similar properties are selling for and try to determine what the market value of any property is.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Maxum's point is those generous programs may disappear.

I know half a dozen families that were "taxed" out of their home in NH over the years. And I know several planning on it. They know they can't afford to stay after they retire. I don't know of any in MA.

They failed to save and invest properly.
The numbers show this is the case with roughly 83 percent of all NH residents.
Even after paying off the mortgage, and lowering monthly costs, they have failed to save enough to reach replacement income through their investments.
A live for the moment and suffer the consequences of such later.

[longislander]

Current Use II - Recreational only requires access for hunting, fishing, and scouting. It does not require access for any other reason... nor does it require all three items to be met on an open access basis.

For an investment property with a quick turn for maximum ROI, it doesn't make much sense. The math simply does not add up.

My comment about current use was meant to address the tax factor of property. Some folks may not be aware of the savings. Our town tax collector once mentioned to me that she could not believe how much money could be saved by some residents if they went current use.

... the unpredictable carrying costs of property taxes ...

RE: current use.
Just Google it read for yourself.

https://www.revenue.nh.gov/current-u...-2021-2022.pdf


Short term investment advice on this website ... !!!
Surely you jest.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by longislander

My comment about current use was meant to address the tax factor of property. Some folks may not be aware of the savings. Our town tax collector once mentioned to me that she could not believe how much money could be saved by some residents if they went current use.



RE: current use.
Just Google it read for yourself.

https://www.revenue.nh.gov/current-u...-2021-2022.pdf


Short term investment advice on this website ... !!!
Surely you jest.

Then you should know that Current Use II only provides a minimal augmentation to the tax advantage... and that Current Use does not require 10 acres. It can be any size parcel that provides $2500 annually in agricultural or horticultural revenue.

Not to mention all of this is likely to change very quickly in the next few years. Much of it being unmanaged forest.

[swnoel]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Maxum's point is those generous programs may disappear.

I know half a dozen families that were "taxed" out of their home in NH over the years. And I know several planning on it. They know they can't afford to stay after they retire. I don't know of any in MA.

I highly doubt that will ever be eliminated in our lifetime. The purpose of current use was to reduce sprawl. Then again I believe many owners of nice homes around the lake would welcome low income housing across the street from them.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by swnoel

I highly doubt that will ever be eliminated in our lifetime. The purpose of current use was to reduce sprawl. Then again I believe many owners of nice homes around the lake would welcome low income housing across the street from them.

It was not the purpose of current use.
Farmers were losing their property due to valuations that agriculture could not cover.
CU will most likely be amended to require each property to have a management plan.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by longislander

In NH, 10 acres and more, can be taxed at a reduced rate, if declared "current Use"; Google it.

An additional reduction, if declared recreational use, in current use; e.g., letting snowmobilers go thru the property, etc.

You can restrict motorized vehicles and still claim current use with the low tax rate.

Actual Example for "current use":
Bought three years ago, 34 acres in Moultonborough that was in "current use" and annual town property tax was $24; not a typo ... twenty four dollars per year for 34 acres on land.

Took out of current use, a little under 2 acres for new-build house and driveway from the 34 acres. Was Taxed 10% of the assessed value of the just under 2 acres, and the rest on the property was still current use with very low tax rate.

On-going tax rate reflects just under 2 acres at regular assessed tax rate and balance of the 34 acres tax at the low current use rate.

Anyone with ten or more acres of vacant land should be looking at "current use", to pay a very reduced annual town tax.

Current Use II - Recreational only requires access for hunting, fishing, and scouting. It does not require access for any other reason... nor does it require all three items to be met on an open access basis.

For an investment property with a quick turn for maximum ROI, it doesn't make much sense. The math simply does not add up.

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by winterh

Bitcoin.
Ethereum.
Assorted alt coins

This guy/gal gets it…. Tons of money to be made

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Winnisquamer

This guy/gal gets it…. Tons of money to be made

Not according to Jamie Dimon:

"Say what you want about JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon, but he's consistent about his disdain for bitcoin.

Dimon once again attacked the top cryptocurrency, calling it "worthless" during a virtual summit Monday.
"I personally think bitcoin is worthless, but I don't want to be a spokesperson," he said during a virtual appearance at the Institute of International Finance Meeting before adding, "I don't care, it makes no difference to me. I don't think people should smoke cigarettes."

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Not according to Jamie Dimon:

"Say what you want about JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon, but he's consistent about his disdain for bitcoin.

Dimon once again attacked the top cryptocurrency, calling it "worthless" during a virtual summit Monday.
"I personally think bitcoin is worthless, but I don't want to be a spokesperson," he said during a virtual appearance at the Institute of International Finance Meeting before adding, "I don't care, it makes no difference to me. I don't think people should smoke cigarettes."

I would say that if I was their biggest competitor also with the intent of Bitcoin to put them out of business… one thing that’s undeniable is that people have made money off of it. alot of money. My self included. Invest how you feel is safe but don’t overlook this space to park some cash.

[BroadHopper]

That's a loaded question. I good financial advisor that is independent of any investment firm is a good start. Try your bank or credit union.

Check to see if there is a local investment club. Usually, a bunch of people pool together their resources and form a nice portfolio that changes as the market indicates. There has been a lot of success!

As for me, I have been extremely lucky to invest in defense contracts stocks. Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Boeing, etc. Great dividend yield as well as long-term growth.

For the short term, the last niche was cannabis stocks. That was a wild but fun ride. I switch all stocks to cannabis ETF until I find another growth opportunity.

As for land, high upfront cost, unless you sit on it for a loooong time. Consider REIT, but it is risky.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by Winnisquamer

I would say that if I was their biggest competitor also with the intent of Bitcoin to put them out of business… one thing that’s undeniable is that people have made money off of it. alot of money. My self included. Invest how you feel is safe but don’t overlook this space to park some cash.

Note, there is no sound

https://youtu.be/E7KQwBWJ7i0

[klopdog]

Originally Posted by Winnisquamer

This guy/gal gets it…. Tons of money to be made

This post aged like a carton of milk outside on a hot summer day.

[John Mercier]

Most investments went down.
And others seem to be rising... but a very good chance of severe bubble.

We've seen individuals in the largest part of the collective wealth curve - Boomers - switch from intangible appreciating assets to physical assets.
And they seem to be focused on quantity over quality when taken collectively.

[klopdog]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Most investments went down.
And others seem to be rising... but a very good chance of severe bubble.

We've seen individuals in the largest part of the collective wealth curve - Boomers - switch from intangible appreciating assets to physical assets.
And they seem to be focused on quantity over quality when taken collectively.

I can see that it wasn't clear unless you read through the comments, but the person I was quoting was giving praise to someone that was praising Bitcoin and Ethereum. Both down over 50% since his post.

I-Bonds returns are fantastic right now, but depending on your personal situation, the $10k limit may or may not be impactful to your portfolio.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by klopdog

I can see that it wasn't clear unless you read through the comments, but the person I was quoting was giving praise to someone that was praising Bitcoin and Ethereum. Both down over 50% since his post.

Don't be surprised if they drop another 50% from here...

[Descant]

Like everything else, part of a diversified portfolio.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by klopdog

I can see that it wasn't clear unless you read through the comments, but the person I was quoting was giving praise to someone that was praising Bitcoin and Ethereum. Both down over 50% since his post.

I-Bonds returns are fantastic right now, but depending on your personal situation, the $10k limit may or may not be impactful to your portfolio.

I understood the focus was the crypto - but with everything going down due to fiscal/monetary conservative positioning offsetting the last decade... it should be expected.

[baygo]

Originally Posted by winterh

Bitcoin.
Ethereum.
Assorted alt coins

10/12/21 Bitcoin closed @ $56,007. It is currently trading @ $38k +/- and loosing confidence fundamentally and charting bearish technically.

[winterh]

Look at the charts since inception. I never said the stuff was not crazy volatile. I guess you could worry that its down from 60k+ or be happy that its up to 38k from the pennies it started at a few years back. Either way it is not for the faint of heart. Never invest more than you can afford to lose. I recommend you dollar cost average in while its down and HODL.(look it up) Crypto of some kind will eventually replace fiat. Will it be Bitcoin or something else? Will we live to see it? Who knows?

[garysanfran]

Stock equities are also going through a bit of a correction...Volatile times!

Put your money in a mattress and pray you don't have a house fire!!!

[baygo]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

Stock equities are also going through a bit of a correction...Volatile times!

Put your money in a mattress and pray you don't have a house fire!!!

Yes… in times of uncertainties (of which there are many now) equities will struggle.

The fact that money continues to move into gold (where it has always gone through times of uncertainty and inflation) tells me that Bitcoin is not replacing it as forecasted by the BTC exuberant.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by baygo

Yes… in times of uncertainties (of which there are many now) equities will struggle.

The fact that money continues to move into gold (where it has always gone through times of uncertainty and inflation) tells me that Bitcoin is not replacing it as forecasted by the BTC exuberant.

Because the term ''fiat'' is misunderstood. Technically the USD was fiat when on the Gold Standard. The Congress decreed that an ounce of gold was worth X amount of USD and could change that ratio at will. Once the US left the Gold Standard the USD trades at market value based on what those selling/purchasing the USD value it at... so it is now market-based like BTC.

The difference argued by the BTC crowd was that BTC had a known limited amount that could be brought to market. But because it is digital... each ''coin'' can be infinitely deluted... not much different than dilution of the USD.

I think the best inflation hedge would likely be the I-Bond. Strength of the USD, but with the inflationary hedge built in.

[mbr]

It's wise to keep in mind the old adage "buy low, sell high".
Right now real estate is at all time highs, and when it comes time to liquidate, which could take time and has high costs, the value may very well be lower. This bubble won't last. Remember 2008?
Money market funds have taken a dive this month, so it's a good time to buy in. I may even put some more into my S&P index fund. Every time it dives, I move some cash into it, while others panic and sell. After a few weeks or months, it goes back up.
I use Vanguard, which has very low costs and easy liquidity.

[John Mercier]

I don't know if real estate has reached its peak. Maybe some sectors, but it seems like we are still building at a rate that I have never seen before... even before 2008.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I don't know if real estate has reached its peak. Maybe some sectors, but it seems like we are still building at a rate that I have never seen before... even before 2008.

John I agree. There is virtually zero rental inventory in more populated areas, so rents are sky high. The flow of people from MA/CT/NY to northern New England has slowed a bit but is still continuing, which fuels home and land values. Still some time left before this real estate market cools off.

[John Mercier]

I know.

When I was watching the Laconia Mayor race... even though Dawn lost to Andrew... when she got on the subject of rents, it wasn't looking too pretty for Andrew.

A lot of things she brought up resonated with a small group... but that one seemed to have a much broader audience.

[dickiej]

I’m 69…pulled every penny out of the stock market last month and put it into an IRA savings account. Too old to ride out another crash.

[baygo]

Originally Posted by dickiej

I’m 69…pulled every penny out of the stock market last month and put it into an IRA savings account. Too old to ride out another crash.

Not too old, too wise. All the writing on the wall has me interpreting the bear market is upon us. My crystal ball speculates in lives for the next 36 months or so.

Warning: I am not a qualified financial advisor or market consultant. Do not trade based on my crystal ball. I post such views simply to be able to reference them when in conversation at a future date with my brother in law.

[LikeLakes]

For Dickiej, in an IRA, he can sell out without the tax implications and buy in again later if he chooses. For taxable accounts I'd consider it a questionable strategy. Think a bear market is coming? So what? In any 10 year period in the history of the stock market, if you stayed invested through downturns you would end up outperforming those who cash out and buy back in later.

Obviously for someone that is only a few years away from needing cash from their investments it may be a different story, but cashing out completely is rarely, if ever, a good strategy in taxable accounts.

Just my 2 cents, not a pro, no insight beyond my own experience and lots of reading.

[swnoel]

Originally Posted by baygo

10/12/21 Bitcoin closed @ $56,007. It is currently trading @ $38k +/- and loosing confidence fundamentally and charting bearish technically.

Interesting... I suppose those stocks that are down 50-80% are as bad as crypto. Wait till the RE market crashes 50-75%... it will, I'm sure there's many of you that have experienced it multiple times. There's nothing safe... you have to be smart and not follow the herd. The hardest part is buying when the entire world is saying to run for your life! Buy crypto, buy stocks, buy real estate , but only at the right time and right now is NOT the right time.

[joey2665]

Investing is an extremely personal subject. People have different levels of security and risk and age also is a major factor. Taking into account all these factors plus the economy the best plan is usually a balanced and diverse portfolio which will help you weather the fluctuations of the economy. A little is the market a little in bonds and a little in real estate plus always keep an acceptable level of cash liquid.


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[WinnisquamZ]

One negative to placing land in current use is its resale value. Because the 10 year tax window pay back. It’s value at time of sale does get reduced


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[longislander]

One negative to placing land in current use is its resale value. Because the 10 year tax window pay back. It’s value at time of sale does get reduced

Not sure what you mean by "10 year payback window".

Resale value is determined by markets, not laws.

If you're alluding to the 10% "penalty" of taking land out of current use (doesn't have to be a sale), it is commensurate with land appreciation and market conditions. The 10% penalty is based on the present value determined by the town assessing office, which can be challenged (good luck).

In my humble opinion resale value will rarely be reduced. Quite the opposite. The 10% "penalty" for taking property out of current use will be higher as time progresses, as property value increases.

Current use runs with the property, including selling to others. Investments or "deals are in the eyes" of the investor.

[longislander]

I should add that the accumulated reduced tax in a current use situation, needs to be factored-in; 10 years(?) or any amount of years.

There's a point in time whereby the annual tax savings compensates for the 10% penalty, even if the property value remains stagnant or in the unlikely possibility of value reduction.

Namely, the tax savings makes up for the 10% tax penalty.

[Bizer]

Originally Posted by bigdog

I'm looking for investment options in today's crazy times....

Stock market - Forget It !
Bonds - Nope !
Gold & Precious Metals - Can't take a gold bar to Wal-Mart or Hannaford
Annuities - Long term, and big penalties if withdrawn before maturity

Which leaves real estate ! Not interested in residential housing or commercial.
I'm thinking of residential land, because God's not making anymore
I realize that land is not really liquid asset, but in today's market, it could turn-over in a reasonable time-frame if I needed to cash-out. By reasonable time-frame, I mean within 6-12 months.

(rest of text omitted)

Do you own a home? Do you own a 2nd home at the lake? Well, you're already heavily invested in real estate. Why put more eggs in that basket?

Personally, I recommend at least 50% in a low-expense, total market, index fund, like VTSAX or an ETF like VTI. Yes, stocks go up and down, but on average they out-perform real estate.

[Descant]

Just re-read the OP's opening remarks. I think land is an investment you make for your grandchildren, not for upcoming retirement. And you have ongoing expenses (taxes). Income from harvest can be pretty spotty. I really prefer something with leverage and/or current income. e.g. rent or dividends. Then I'm sheltered a little from market volatility.

In a small way, from Treasury Direct: "The initial interest rate on new Series I savings bonds is 9.62 percent. You can buy I bonds at that rate through October 2022." You can only buy from Treasury Direct, so you won't hear much about these from your broker or the bank's trust dept. The rate is tied to inflation and is re-set every 6 months. $10,000 maximum. Penalty for early withdrawal.

[John Mercier]

I-bonds are nice for the long haul.
But to get any real value out of them you need to invest year-after-year and never cash out early.

The $10k limit makes it an investment that isn't short hall or quick-turn.
Very limiting for high income/large holdings investors.

Rents are going to be spotty. You can't fix a housing shortage with higher or lower interest rates or a change in lending standards in the current equation.
So I think Millennials are going to flex that new found political power.
That could mean direct govt investment and structural changes.

[WinnisquamZ]

Listed on Zillow as of yesterday two condo units for sale above the colonial theater. Many May look at those as a investment. But, I not recall hearing closer on the parking issue.


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[John Mercier]

''Many'' being who?

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Listed on Zillow as of yesterday two condo units for sale above the colonial theater. Many May look at those as a investment. But, I not recall hearing closer on the parking issue.


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It might be a good investment if they are priced correctly. There is not a nice hotel in the area except opechee inn. These could be rented to the talent performing at the theatre.


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