truck through ice

[GTO]

A truck went through the ice this morning in Meredith bay into 6 feet of water. The driver got out ok as he heard the ice cracking seconds before. See pics and storyon the NH Fish and Game site

[meredith weekender]

here is the link:http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/News...ce-013015.html

[Crusty]

Made the CBS Evening News...

[pjard]

My son and I watched them pull the truck out. What a mess!

[brk-lnt]

Despite *decades* of this happening consistently every year, people still don't seem to understand the probability of the ice being unreliable, even after long cold spells.

[Rusty]

How does someone get auto insurance for stupidity?

That being said I'm glad everyone got out of the truck OK.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Rusty

How does someone get auto insurance for stupidity?

That being said I'm glad everyone got out of the truck OK.

...but it can be an underlying reason for non-renewing the policy at its next annual renewal.

[webmaster]

NH Fish & Game: Truck falls thru 4" thick ice, Meredith Bay-was setting up for New England Pond Hockey Classic #NHwx pic.twitter.com/ype63uYEkD

— Michael Page (@MichaelPageWx) January 30, 2015

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by webmaster

NH Fish & Game: Truck falls thru 4" thick ice, Meredith Bay-was setting up for New England Pond Hockey Classic #NHwx pic.twitter.com/ype63uYEkD

— Michael Page (@MichaelPageWx) January 30, 2015

When I first read that I missed seeing the colon after NH Fish & Game and thought that it was one of their trucks that broke thru the ice.

[Paugus bay girl]

There's no reason whatsoever any other vehicle besides a 4 wheeler or a snowmobile should be out on that ice. It's just crazy to bring a car or truck out there.

[pjard]

That truck went through the ice only 20 feet behind the line of Pond Hockey vendors...if it was even that far. Kind of scary that the ice was only 4 inches thick there.

[CAVU]

It would seem to hold Hockey tournaments in that location would not be the best spot. Maybe further out into the bay. It seems that river out of Mill Falls does a number on the ice. Has it ever called off due to ice conditions?

[Lakeboater]

One year it was held on Lake Waukewan due to ice conditions.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by CAVU

It would seem to hold Hockey tournaments in that location would not be the best spot. Maybe further out into the bay. It seems that river out of Mill Falls does a number on the ice. Has it ever called off due to ice conditions?

The ice inMeredith bay is plenty safe this year. Unfortunately, the truck that fell in went too close to the open water/inlet.

[tis]

When I see pictures, I always worry too about the amount of weight on the ice. It amazes me it will hold that many people and vehicles etc.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

The ice inMeredith bay is plenty safe this year. Unfortunately, the truck that fell in went too close to the open water/inlet.

Ideally when major events are held in Meredith that attract large crowds and vehicles on the ice, it'd make sense for the town or state to make an effort to throw up a few warning signs where the ice thickness may be questionable. That's not to say anyone will heed such warnings, but even if it saves one or two vehicles from going through the ice, that's a good thing.

Just a thought since these events encourage people to venture out onto the ice and let's be honest here many have no clue about areas to avoid.

[Happy Gourmand]

But wouldn't that open the State/Town up for litigation if somebody went through in an unmarked area? Has there ever been a year when no vehicle went through the ice?

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Ideally when major events are held in Meredith that attract large crowds and vehicles on the ice, it'd make sense for the town or state to make an effort to throw up a few warning signs where the ice thickness may be questionable. That's not to say anyone will heed such warnings, but even if it saves one or two vehicles from going through the ice, that's a good thing.

Just a thought since these events encourage people to venture out onto the ice and let's be honest here many have no clue about areas to avoid.

While I agree with you that it would be a great idea to put up warning signs, I think I understand why they don't. In my youth, the towns and state forest people would put out signs saying that the ponds were not safe yet for on-ice activities.

If they do not put out signs, and only issue general warnings to make sure that the public check the ice to make sure it is safe, going on to give the thickness of the ice for varying activities, a case can be made that there is no liability for going on the ice for the town or state.


If they put out signs saying this ice is not safe, the implication is that other areas are safe and if someone goes through that ice, it becomes a case of " well, you didn't say this ice wasn't safe" .

Our litigious society at work.

Knowing where you are entering the lake, whether in a vehicle, on a snowmobile / ATV / other over snow vehicle, or on foot, you have to know for yourself how safe is the ice, and what factors in the area will affect how thick the ice is.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

While I agree with you that it would be a great idea to put up warning signs, I think I understand why they don't. In my youth, the towns and state forest people would put out signs saying that the ponds were not safe yet for on-ice activities.

If they do not put out signs, and only issue general warnings to make sure that the public check the ice to make sure it is safe, going on to give the thickness of the ice for varying activities, a case can be made that there is no liability for going on the ice for the town or state.


If they put out signs saying this ice is not safe, the implication is that other areas are safe and if someone goes through that ice, it becomes a case of " well, you didn't say this ice wasn't safe" .

Our litigious society at work.

Knowing where you are entering the lake, whether in a vehicle, on a snowmobile / ATV / other over snow vehicle, or on foot, you have to know for yourself how safe is the ice, and what factors in the area will affect how thick the ice is.

Yeah I get that point and it did cross my mind as I was making the suggestion. I guess they could put out a sign that says.. no ice is safe, but beyond this point it's really not safe!

[PCTim]

Just thought I'd respond to a couple of things seeing as I was there

1. Where the truck went in is always a little thinner due to the falls/river from across the street. If the guy is a vendor, he's probably been there before and SHOULD know.

2. When they were setting up to recover the vehicle, I watched an auger go at LEAST 2 feet in before hitting water, and they were no more than 20 feet from the truck itself. Ice thickness varies.

3. Scott Crowder does a great job making sure everything is SAFE for all of the people. This year there were 250 teams, over 1,700 participants on 24 rinks. I emailed him personally to check on ice thickness because I was thinking of putting a trailer out there for my team (didn't do it) and he told me the thickness varied, but was 12+ inches around all of the rinks. Believe me, if it wasn't safe, he wouldn't have it there.

4. When leaving Sunday I noticed stakes and caution tape around the area where the truck went in. A little late, but better than nothing.

5. On Friday when walking out on the ice from the boat ramp at the town docks, I noticed a sign about ice thickness and it never being safe, but I can't remember exactly what it said.

Finally, on a personal note. The tournament was a blast and well run. The ONLY thing I would change is maybe either keep the snowmobiles away from the rinks, or give them a separate lane to travel through. Too many people/kids walking around for them to be cruising through. It's crowded enough without having to dodge the big machines, especially when they leave them in the middle of the trail to go get a coffee or something. While MOST snowmobilers are considerate, there are always a few jerks out there (as with anything). Us skaters are only there for a weekend, you guys have all winter. Just asking for a little space.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by PCTim

Just thought I'd respond to a couple of things seeing as I was there

1. Where the truck went in is always a little thinner due to the falls/river from across the street. If the guy is a vendor, he's probably been there before and SHOULD know.

2. When they were setting up to recover the vehicle, I watched an auger go at LEAST 2 feet in before hitting water, and they were no more than 20 feet from the truck itself. Ice thickness varies.

3. Scott Crowder does a great job making sure everything is SAFE for all of the people. This year there were 250 teams, over 1,700 participants on 24 rinks. I emailed him personally to check on ice thickness because I was thinking of putting a trailer out there for my team (didn't do it) and he told me the thickness varied, but was 12+ inches around all of the rinks. Believe me, if it wasn't safe, he wouldn't have it there.

4. When leaving Sunday I noticed stakes and caution tape around the area where the truck went in. A little late, but better than nothing.

5. On Friday when walking out on the ice from the boat ramp at the town docks, I noticed a sign about ice thickness and it never being safe, but I can't remember exactly what it said.

Finally, on a personal note. The tournament was a blast and well run. The ONLY thing I would change is maybe either keep the snowmobiles away from the rinks, or give them a separate lane to travel through. Too many people/kids walking around for them to be cruising through. It's crowded enough without having to dodge the big machines, especially when they leave them in the middle of the trail to go get a coffee or something. While MOST snowmobilers are considerate, there are always a few jerks out there (as with anything). Us skaters are only there for a weekend, you guys have all winter. Just asking for a little space.

Tim,

Thank you for your observations. Regarding the snowmobiles- a separate lane would be nice, but people will still need to be able to cross it on foot. The snowmobile trail is set with the Bureau of Trails, Fish & Game, and DOT (especially for the road crossing location. They are difficult at best to move, even temporarily!

[GTO]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Tim,

Thank you for your observations. Regarding the snowmobiles- a separate lane would be nice, but people will still need to be able to cross it on foot. The snowmobile trail is set with the Bureau of Trails, Fish & Game, and DOT (especially for the road crossing location. They are difficult at best to move, even temporarily!

I went to the tounament by skimobile on Saturday. When we got there the horn had just gone off so all the players were leaving the rinks so there was alot of foot/skate traffic. We sat there and just waited till everyone passed and it was safe to proceed. I'm sure any place you go, you're going to run into a few inconsiderate people

[PCTim]

Didn't realize the trail was set like that. Maybe instead of one set of ropes to mark the trail, maybe two sets? One would be for the sleds, the other for pedestrians (kinda like a sidewalk). Just a thought.

Yes GTO, plenty of considerate people out there, unfortunately, a few not so considerate as well. I will admit, this year was much better than last year, but the weather might have had something to do with it.

Again, not trying to cause a fuss, but when you see these big powerful machines sharing space with hundreds of people on foot (including kids), it can be a recipe for disaster. Last year I saw a small child (no more than 10) cruising around on a pretty big sled no too far from where the truck went in this year. Wondered where the parents were. Then again, there were kids resting their chins on the boards of the rink last year during a game and when play got near them, the mother yelled at us players to watch out. Makes you wonder...

Can't wait until next year!

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by PCTim

Didn't realize the trail was set like that. Maybe instead of one set of ropes to mark the trail, maybe two sets? One would be for the sleds, the other for pedestrians (kinda like a sidewalk). Just a thought.

Yes GTO, plenty of considerate people out there, unfortunately, a few not so considerate as well. I will admit, this year was much better than last year, but the weather might have had something to do with it.

Again, not trying to cause a fuss, but when you see these big powerful machines sharing space with hundreds of people on foot (including kids), it can be a recipe for disaster. Last year I saw a small child (no more than 10) cruising around on a pretty big sled no too far from where the truck went in this year. Wondered where the parents were. Then again, there were kids resting their chins on the boards of the rink last year during a game and when play got near them, the mother yelled at us players to watch out. Makes you wonder...

Can't wait until next year!

Tim: I couldn't agree with you more. I took my kids to the games on Sunday and there was a couple of folks whipping by on sleds with very little regard for the pedestrians. I also would exclude the sleds from the main pedestrian traffic if I were Mr. Crowder. That being said, for a young guy he certainly runs a first class operations that gets noticeably better each year. What a great way to drive tourism to Meredith at a time of year when activity can be slow. Crowder and McLear should team up and see what they can come up with for the Weirs. God knows that place needs all the help it can get.

[WeirsBeachBoater]

I am a snowmobiler, I also enjoy the Pond Hockey Tournament. The PHC people put their rinks next to an established trail. The Snowmobilers didn't put their trail next to PHC rinks. The lake is a state resource, and therefore open to all to enjoy, We the snowmobilers and ice fishermen, make adjustments when the pond hockey classic arrived in town and Staked out acres of the lake for their exclusive use. This starts about 3 weeks prior to the tournament. Now I am sorry a few bad apples made snowmobilers look bad. However I feel that the Hockey tournament is much more of a impact than the snowmobiles passing by. Can't we all just get along

[PCTim]

Not looking to keep the sleds away at all, just suggesting that maybe it would be safer to separate the vehicles from the pedestrians for safety purposes. Kind of like having sidewalks. I'm sure the last thing anyone wants is for someone who isn't paying attention to wander in front of a moving snowmobile. That doesn't end well for anyone.

And yes, we all CAN get along. 99% of the people on BOTH sides are decent people just looking to have a good time. Believe me, I saw my share of idiot skaters this weekend too...

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Maybe a simple shift to the east would work? If you just shifted everything over 50ft? Then the snowmobile trail would be behind the "Vendors Row"? Therefore most of the pedestrian traffic would be between the rinks and the vendors, and snowmobile traffic would be separated from most of the spectators?

[Woodsy]

Why is it people have to make a problem when there isn't one?

There have been NO snowmobile/ATV vs. pedestrian accidents during the PHC. EVER! Yes, there is a potential hazard... there is also a much higher potential hazard that a pedestrian could slip & fall and get seriously injured on the ice. Maybe we should sand the ice to prevent that? Maybe require all of the spectators to wear helmets?

It's called....

Wait for it....

Personal Responsibility!

I know here in the weird world of Winnipesaukee, Personal Responsibility is obviously unheard of!

Woodsy

PS: The guy who sank his truck... Yup! It is his Personal Responsibility to check the ice where he parked it.

[Jersey Ed]

This may be a stupid question, but, if the snowmobile trail is "set" and can't be moved, would it make any sense to set an appropriate speed limit thru the conflicted area.

[PCTim]

Gee, that escalated quickly.

I'm glad there have been no accidents. And just like your tagline says, you can't fix stupid. I have plenty of personal responsibility, for myself and my family. However, I can't control what the other person is going to do. And if that person is on a 500 lb machine capable of speeds over 100 mph then I'm going to do everything in my power to stay out of their way...

Didn't mean to blow up this thread. I was just making an observation. I realize the snowmobilers were here first, and I'm not looking to take anything away from anybody. I just don't want to see anyone get hurt.

[Woodsy]

PCTim...

I didn't mean my post as an escalation. I just want people to stop and think....

Consider some of the stuff you do EVERY DAY and compare it to your post about the sled trail.

You drive your car down a road at 50 MPH and think nothing off the guy approaching you at the same speed, less than 4' away... the only thing preventing a tragedy is a painted yellow line... and 2 people paying attention. (personal responsibility)

You walk down the sidewalk and cars pass you at the same 30 MPH... nothing preventing a tragedy here except a 6" curb and 2 people paying attention. (personal responsibility)

Sure, there is a slim possibility that an out of control sled could seriously injure someone. But the chances are very, very remote. You are right that you cannot control what another person is going to do. But NO AMOUNT OF LAWS can prevent someone from doing something stupid. A rope between the sleds and pedestrians will not stop an out of control sled, any more than it will stop a pedestrian from not using a crosswalk and stepping out in front of a sled or car.


JerseyEd... There is a speed limit. You cannot go faster than 10MPH when within 150' of a person or a bobhouse...

Woodsy

[PCTim]

You walk down the sidewalk and cars pass you at the same 30 MPH... nothing preventing a tragedy here except a 6" curb and 2 people paying attention. (personal responsibility)

This is exactly my point. The car is in the street, the person is on the sidewalk. The vehicles and the pedestrians are not sharing the same space like they are here. You don't walk down the middle of the street, you walk on the sidewalk (or if there is none, on the side of the road).

Again, I'm not trying to start an argument and I'm not trying to take anything away from anybody. I simply made an observation about how it gets kind of crowded and possibly unsafe when pedestrians and vehicles try to share a small space and I came up with what I thought might be a simple solution (2 paths instead of 1).