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Old 01-20-2023, 09:32 PM   #1
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Default 65 mph on the Broads only

HB448 will be discussed and voted on the House RR&D committee. Date not set yet. I'll start . . . those who are anti performance boats will say that speed is the big safety issue. This has no basis in fact because the Marine Patrol data over the years show that speed doesn't even make it on the top 3 list of main causes of boating accidents.
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Old 01-20-2023, 09:49 PM   #2
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The real issue was always noise, but at the time, that was harder to enforce, and harder to convince the legislature Wait 'til we start getting some quiet electric speed boats. There have been other proposals to limit some activities to the broads, such as jet skis in the early days when they were noisy too. It really isn't very practical. Simpler is better, so just leave things as is...or amend the bill to limit loud music.
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Old 01-20-2023, 10:04 PM   #3
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The real issue was always noise, but at the time, that was harder to enforce, and harder to convince the legislature Wait 'til we start getting some quiet electric speed boats. There have been other proposals to limit some activities to the broads, such as jet skis in the early days when they were noisy too. It really isn't very practical. Simpler is better, so just leave things as is...or amend the bill to limit loud music.
I have had jet skis and enjoyed them for over 25 years. The four strokes made them less noisy and much smoother.

However the newer jet skis with stereos can be as annoying as a wake boat with the high mounted speakers. They both blast sound for a large distance, disturbing the peace and quiet for many people in the area they operate in.
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Old 01-21-2023, 06:09 AM   #4
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I have had jet skis and enjoyed them for over 25 years. The four strokes made them less noisy and much smoother.



However the newer jet skis with stereos can be as annoying as a wake boat with the high mounted speakers. They both blast sound for a large distance, disturbing the peace and quiet for many people in the area they operate in.
The difference between the two is that jetski speakers are much lower, so the sound doesn't travel nearly as far, and only overpower the engine noise when at idle/lower speeds. As someone who has them, though, I agree they can be annoying.

In terms of the speed limit, does it really matter? Is there really anyone on the lake who follows that rule religiously other than when near MP?

At this point, it would be like changing the speed limit on the interstate from 55-70. Everybody's already doing 80.

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Old 01-21-2023, 07:31 AM   #5
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I find it funny after the last election that Bordes and Trottier don't seem to be focused on the issues.

I would have focused all my attention on fixing the housing crisis, the energy crisis, and the food crisis.
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Old 01-21-2023, 08:05 AM   #6
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I find it funny after the last election that Bordes and Trottier don't seem to be focused on the issues.

I would have focused all my attention on fixing the housing crisis, the energy crisis, and the food crisis.
And the mental illness crisis. It would solve many problems.
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Old 01-21-2023, 08:47 AM   #7
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The mental illness is stress induced by the other underlying problems.
It will keep getting worse the longer the other situations exist.
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Old 01-21-2023, 09:07 AM   #8
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The mental illness is stress induced by the other underlying problems.
It will keep getting worse the longer the other situations exist.
Not all mental illness is stress induced.
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Old 01-21-2023, 09:26 AM   #9
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I would bet more of what we are seeing is.
It is possible some other environmental factor is playing a role, but they should be able to pin that down.

As far as genetic factors, that isn't something that the government - local, State, or Federal - is going to be able to ''fix''. And they will have even less resources for those as they deal with the amount caused by the stress.

Laconia (Bordes) is dealing with 11.4% poverty rate... and a mixture of homeless and near homeless.
Long term mental illness may be playing a role, but that cannot be for that percentage of the population.
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Old 01-21-2023, 09:28 AM   #10
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HB448 will be discussed and voted on the House RR&D committee. Date not set yet. I'll start . . . those who are anti performance boats will say that speed is the big safety issue. This has no basis in fact because the Marine Patrol data over the years show that speed doesn't even make it on the top 3 list of main causes of boating accidents.
Perhaps the reason speed isent in the top 3 causes ( implying it is number 4 ) is because speed is now controlled. What this may well be saying is that the speed limit has worked and is controlling incidents
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Old 01-21-2023, 09:37 AM   #11
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HB448 will be discussed and voted on the House RR&D committee. Date not set yet. I'll start . . . those who are anti performance boats will say that speed is the big safety issue. This has no basis in fact because the Marine Patrol data over the years show that speed doesn't even make it on the top 3 list of main causes of boating accidents.
When I called to report a Memorial Day Weekend speeder racing down the middle of Winter Harbor, I was asked for my name and address; whereupon, the dispatcher told me not to bother the NHMP any longer.

I protested saying, " I never call unless there's an NHMP patrol boat in sight at the time of the infraction, and the patrol boat is at the 'Flasher 19' marker right now".

The male dispatcher responded with another, "Don't bother".

This was a few years ago, so now that dispatching is now so detached at the Highway Patrol, I've taken the NHMP's advice and will wait for the next ocean-racer fatality to be proactive again.

.
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Old 01-21-2023, 09:58 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
The difference between the two is that jetski speakers are much lower, so the sound doesn't travel nearly as far, and only overpower the engine noise when at idle/lower speeds. As someone who has them, though, I agree they can be annoying.

In terms of the speed limit, does it really matter? Is there really anyone on the lake who follows that rule religiously other than when near MP?

At this point, it would be like changing the speed limit on the interstate from 55-70. Everybody's already doing 80.

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The thing that would change is the lake would be significantly more attractive to super fast super loud boats. Seems completely obvious that we would have more of them, everywhere, not just in the Broads.
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Old 01-21-2023, 10:12 AM   #13
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It's almost comical. Last year's bill to overturn the speed limit went nowhere. It was voted ITL in Committee. Now the same rep from Laconia who owns a boat that exceeds the 45 MPH limit proposes yet again a bill that will allow him to speed across the Broads. The Broads, where the Lake Winni Sailing Association teaches young kids to sail. The hub of the lake where family boaters cross in all directions to get to their destinations. Where fishermen also are trolling in all directions.
As was noted by the Lake Winni Association (who opposed last year's bill), the number of people obtaining their boat license has increased from 6500 in 2019 to over 30,000 in 2020. This represents an almost 500% increase in new and inexperienced boaters on our lakes.
This bill is doomed.
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Old 01-21-2023, 10:13 AM   #14
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Wonder how much the boating industry has invested this time around? Wonder how much went to members of this House committee? Our lake continues to b destroyed by people who do not value this precious resource. If you want to speed, move to Hampton Beach ! First time there is a fatality, it will be on the hands of this committee if the bill is pushed along to the legislature.
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Old 01-21-2023, 10:23 AM   #15
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Perhaps the reason speed isent in the top 3 causes ( implying it is number 4 ) is because speed is now controlled. What this may well be saying is that the speed limit has worked and is controlling incidents
The Marine Patrol speed stats have not changed much over the years of data collection . . .this includes before the 45/30 speed limits
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Old 01-21-2023, 10:36 AM   #16
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The Marine Patrol speed stats have not changed much over the years of data collection . . .this includes before the 45/30 speed limits
The lake is way more congested than it was 20 years ago. Increasing the SL to 65 MPH is reckless and short sighted. And as far as support for 45/30 is concerned, 80% of NH reps supported the bill a decade ago that made 45/30 law, with an even higher percentage of reps from towns bordering the lake in support. As said, this bill is doomed with the potential for its sponsor to be a laughing stock.
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Old 01-21-2023, 11:40 AM   #17
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Just go back and read the article from 2018....Same S***, different day.

Lose the speed limit - the world will not end, the icebergs will not melt, the oceans won't rise and Al Gore will still be a moron.


https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...179#post298179
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Old 01-21-2023, 11:48 AM   #18
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It is more congested.
But for the reps not attached to the lake... I think it is the visual.

Bordes represents a community that is attached to Lake Winnipesaukee... but has other more prominent issues. Obviously he can do more than one thing at time, but if he only sponsors bills on this issue, it may not go as well for the next round.

Trottier is my rep. Belmont is not attached to Lake Winnipesaukee, so questions as to his position have and are arising. When local Republicans are looking for primary opponents every cycle, it questions whether a representative can explain in a comprehensible manner of the value to their constituency.

I think Sylvia learned that explaining a position is pertinent. Even O'Hara is now being questioned about if the demand for transparency was just political expedience. Hopefully he will press the issue and become what the town needs.... competent honest representation.
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Old 01-21-2023, 11:51 AM   #19
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Default 65 mph on the Broads only

The Broads continues to be more and more congested, so I have an idea. Let's have the Marine Patrol put lines on the Broads indicating special lanes for high speed travel boats only. Sort of like the HOV lanes on some turnpikes.
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Old 01-21-2023, 11:59 AM   #20
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Default How many of us have a boat that can do 65 mph

My assumption is that 99% of us do not have a boat that will travel at 65 MPH.
Today ever other boat is a pontoon boat. The question is why create a law or repeal a current law that only a slim minority want. I live on the broads and prefer not to have the additional noise but there is also a safety issue. The broads on a sunny weekend day looks more like route 93. Why make it worse?

The speed limit works just fine. There is no strict enforcement so just leave it be as it is.
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Old 01-21-2023, 12:00 PM   #21
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It seems odd to me that the sponsor of this bill appears not to be on a single committee in the House. Now there are 27 committees, most with 20 members. Yet the sponsor of HB 448 appears not to be on a single one.

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/hou...ommittees.aspx


Even George Santos was given a committee assignment in Washington D.C.
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Old 01-21-2023, 12:26 PM   #22
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My assumption is that 99% of us do not have a boat that will travel at 65 MPH.
Today ever other boat is a pontoon boat. The question is why create a law or repeal a current law that only a slim minority want. I live on the broads and prefer not to have the additional noise but there is also a safety issue. The broads on a sunny weekend day looks more like route 93. Why make it worse?

The speed limit works just fine. There is no strict enforcement so just leave it be as it is.
Not many boats go that fast but there are many jet skis that will. I had one that hit 72 mph and it was 10 years old. They are even faster now!
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Old 01-21-2023, 02:04 PM   #23
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I would bet more of what we are seeing is.
It is possible some other environmental factor is playing a role, but they should be able to pin that down.

As far as genetic factors, that isn't something that the government - local, State, or Federal - is going to be able to ''fix''. And they will have even less resources for those as they deal with the amount caused by the stress.

Laconia (Bordes) is dealing with 11.4% poverty rate... and a mixture of homeless and near homeless.
Long term mental illness may be playing a role, but that cannot be for that percentage of the population.
Just curious John, 1900 posts and you only hit the thanks button once, was that by accident?
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Old 01-21-2023, 04:04 PM   #24
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A deadlocked government is a good government. Unless you have your hand out.
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Old 01-21-2023, 06:25 PM   #25
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Checked the site for lake news, not a left wing political lecture.
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Old 01-21-2023, 09:27 PM   #26
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Cutting across the broads heading any direction at ~40, it’s very easy to close on another boater much quicker than you expect. Raising the notional speed limit would be foolhardy. Why not take that speed to the ocean?
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Old 01-21-2023, 10:06 PM   #27
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Just curious John, 1900 posts and you only hit the thanks button once, was that by accident?
More than likely.
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Old 01-21-2023, 10:13 PM   #28
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Checked the site for lake news, not a left wing political lecture.
Not sure how it is left wing, if Republicans are looking to replace Republicans with other Republicans.
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:17 AM   #29
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More than likely.
That's what I thought, Somehow I knew you would have the answer!
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Old 01-22-2023, 09:03 AM   #30
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Looks like it's time to open up the Speed Limit sub-forum again. The last speed limit "debate" got really ugly. Many of us don't want to read this crap. Brings back bad memories of how some forumites brought winnipesaukee.com down to new low depths. JMHO. I'll probably be sorry I posted this as I usually steer clear of useless controversy. Talk about first world problems. .... jeesh .... and it's already devolved into politics.
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:32 AM   #31
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Not sure how it is left wing, if Republicans are looking to replace Republicans with other Republicans.
The "smear" has become universal for anything that a certain group of people don't like.
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Old 01-22-2023, 03:01 PM   #32
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It doesn't really work in Belmont.
Pretty much here if you want to be a State legislator, you need an ''R'' next to your name. As long as you don't have a primary, you can sit in Concord earning $100 per year for the rest of your life.

Because we are ''blue collar'', issue are almost always ''kitchen table'' budgeting.
They like to know how the money is being spent, and in this what the benefits to them would be.

It may be that opening up the speed limit would attract more ''customers'' to the lake... and thus enhance Meals & Rental revenues without having to change the tax rate. That would be a positive.

But with so many of the businesses complaining of labor shortages, food shortages, and now energy costs... it brings into question what the outcome will be this year if those issues persist.
Having restaurants close prematurely... or worse permanently... is an outcome I think we would all want to avoid.

We want to keep the economy growing regardless of what happens elsewhere.
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Old 01-23-2023, 07:10 AM   #33
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Cutting across the broads heading any direction at ~40, it’s very easy to close on another boater much quicker than you expect. Raising the notional speed limit would be foolhardy. Why not take that speed to the ocean?
1) Some may recall the ocean-racer that ejected the occupants, whose empty boat crossed a mile of lake, ran up a wooded enbankment and interrupted a neighborhood cookout.

2) Some may recall a Florida "captain" who was sentenced to 80 years in prison for losing control of his ocean-racer and crushing a citizen inside his house!

Of the two fatalities above, the latter case is evocative of a similar fatality on Lake Winnipesaukee: New Hampshire justice was poorly served with a slap on the wrist. (Not to mention the seven bikers case).

The speed limit provides NH prosecutors with a second charge totally in accord with the serious charges of Homicide and Manslaughter.
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Old 01-23-2023, 08:15 AM   #34
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Default All You Damn Kids Get Off My Lawn

Stop with all of your Connecticut style regulations. It's too loud, you're going too fast, blah blah blah. Leave people alone. Try to remember why you like to live in New Hampshire in the first place.
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Old 01-23-2023, 08:31 AM   #35
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Stop with all of your Connecticut style regulations. It's too loud, you're going too fast, blah blah blah. Leave people alone. Try to remember why you like to live in New Hampshire in the first place.
We all have different reasons. I like it because it's quiet but that's changing!
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Old 01-23-2023, 11:03 AM   #36
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Ugh.... Here we go again!

The same talking points over and over... go fasts vs. every other possible scenario. The only thing people should be concerned about are accidents... and there have been exactly ZERO daytime accidents on Lake Winnipesaukee where speed was a factor. Both prior to and after the 45 MPH speed limit was enacted. 65 MPH isn't going to make that statistic change.

IMHO, speed doesn't really matter as the NHMP are not draconian in their enforcement with the exception of noise. (I get that) They stop and educate. I think they do a pretty good job.

Kudos to Mike Bordes for listening and at least attempting to make changes.

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Old 01-23-2023, 11:29 AM   #37
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Ditto on what Woodsy said..

If I recall the speed limit was a reaction to when a certain owner of a certain marina slammed into an island at night while OUI (impaired driver). It had nothing to do with a speed-related accident. Speed was just an additional factor given the impaired state and darkness.

If you want to dump 30 gals on fuel to get across the Broads faster, as long as you keep the DB down, enjoy. But above the waterline open headers for the whole lake to hear, pull 'em over...
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Old 01-23-2023, 11:46 AM   #38
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Ditto on what Woodsy said..

If I recall the speed limit was a reaction to when a certain owner of a certain marina slammed into an island at night while OUI (impaired driver). It had nothing to do with a speed-related accident. Speed was just an additional factor given the impaired state and darkness.
Just to be clear, she was never convicted of OUI...she was only convicted of "failing to keep a proper lookout". Many people believe differently and I get that but the fact is a jury who sat through all the proceedings made that decision...

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Old 01-23-2023, 01:37 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
Ugh.... Here we go again!

The same talking points over and over... go fasts vs. every other possible scenario. The only thing people should be concerned about are accidents... and there have been exactly ZERO daytime accidents on Lake Winnipesaukee where speed was a factor. Both prior to and after the 45 MPH speed limit was enacted. 65 MPH isn't going to make that statistic change.


Woodsy
Really? You are somewhat misinformed.

MOULTONBOROUGH, N.H. — Aug 2015 WMUR News
Authorities say a swimmer is recovering from injuries he suffered when he was struck by a motor boat in Lake Winnipesaukee.

The State Police Marine Patrol says an 18-foot outboard fishing boat carrying two men struck the swimmer Sunday morning in Moultonborough.

Both occupants of the boat said they saw a person in a kayak, but they did not see the man swimming alongside the kayaker.

The victim was taken onto the fishing boat and brought to shore. He was being treated at a hospital for non-life-threatening injuries.

And this is the report from Capt. Dunleavey:. Spoiler alert...the boat was going 65 MPH.

In response to your request we spoke about earlier this week, specifically related to accident on Lake Winnipesaukee for the last ten years. Marine Patrol has completed an extensive manual search of its accident data.

The following accidents have been identified as being related to speeds potentially in excess of limits set by RSA 270-D:2 X:

2013
July 7th 5:00 pm Operator of PWC (Personal Watercraft) fell into handle bars 45 mph
July 20th 8:00am Operator struck underwater object and boat sunk 45 mph

2015
August 23rd 8:17am Powerboat struck swimmer 65+mph

2018
September 2nd 2:56pm PWC fall over board 50 mph


Sincerely,

Timothy C. Dunleavy
Marine Patrol Captain
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Old 01-23-2023, 02:38 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by sunset on the dock View Post
Really? You are somewhat misinformed.

MOULTONBOROUGH, N.H. — Aug 2015 WMUR News
Authorities say a swimmer is recovering from injuries he suffered when he was struck by a motor boat in Lake Winnipesaukee.

The State Police Marine Patrol says an 18-foot outboard fishing boat carrying two men struck the swimmer Sunday morning in Moultonborough.

Both occupants of the boat said they saw a person in a kayak, but they did not see the man swimming alongside the kayaker.

The victim was taken onto the fishing boat and brought to shore. He was being treated at a hospital for non-life-threatening injuries.

And this is the report from Capt. Dunleavey:. Spoiler alert...the boat was going 65 MPH.

In response to your request we spoke about earlier this week, specifically related to accident on Lake Winnipesaukee for the last ten years. Marine Patrol has completed an extensive manual search of its accident data.

The following accidents have been identified as being related to speeds potentially in excess of limits set by RSA 270-D:2 X:

2013
July 7th 5:00 pm Operator of PWC (Personal Watercraft) fell into handle bars 45 mph
July 20th 8:00am Operator struck underwater object and boat sunk 45 mph

2015
August 23rd 8:17am Powerboat struck swimmer 65+mph

2018
September 2nd 2:56pm PWC fall over board 50 mph


Sincerely,

Timothy C. Dunleavy
Marine Patrol Captain
Living in the area where the swimmer was struck and knowing people that where involved in responding to the situation, while emergency crews where in route.... I don't believe the 65 MPH for the boat speed is correct. I also believe that the swimmer and kayaker where in the middle of a channel, which isn't exactly the safest place to be swimming... I don't mean this as an excuse of any kind, but to attribute this accident to speed, is not correct.... there where many extenuating circumstances that lead to this issue.
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Old 01-23-2023, 03:05 PM   #41
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So what did the boater have for other extenuating circumstances?
I only question that one because the implication is that Tim provided false information.
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Old 01-23-2023, 03:56 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by sunset on the dock View Post
Really? You are somewhat misinformed.

MOULTONBOROUGH, N.H. — Aug 2015 WMUR News
Authorities say a swimmer is recovering from injuries he suffered when he was struck by a motor boat in Lake Winnipesaukee.

The State Police Marine Patrol says an 18-foot outboard fishing boat carrying two men struck the swimmer Sunday morning in Moultonborough.

Both occupants of the boat said they saw a person in a kayak, but they did not see the man swimming alongside the kayaker.

The victim was taken onto the fishing boat and brought to shore. He was being treated at a hospital for non-life-threatening injuries.

And this is the report from Capt. Dunleavey:. Spoiler alert...the boat was going 65 MPH.

In response to your request we spoke about earlier this week, specifically related to accident on Lake Winnipesaukee for the last ten years. Marine Patrol has completed an extensive manual search of its accident data.

The following accidents have been identified as being related to speeds potentially in excess of limits set by RSA 270-D:2 X:

2013
July 7th 5:00 pm Operator of PWC (Personal Watercraft) fell into handle bars 45 mph
July 20th 8:00am Operator struck underwater object and boat sunk 45 mph

2015
August 23rd 8:17am Powerboat struck swimmer 65+mph

2018
September 2nd 2:56pm PWC fall over board 50 mph


Sincerely,

Timothy C. Dunleavy
Marine Patrol Captain
I stand corrected... Thank you!

4 total accidents where speed may have been a factor, but only 1 accident over the actual speed limit and it involved an 18' bass boat, not a go fast boat.

Hundreds of thousands of hours annually boated on just Winnipesaukee, probably well over 1 million hours collectively since after the law was passed... and we have exactly 1 accident! Hardly a cause for alarm or a law.

Now we don't know all the details of said accident, fishing boat saw kayak but not swimmer? How far away from the kayak was the swimmer? There is no doubt in my mind it was 100% negligent operation on the boat driver, (I would guess he was into the 150' bubble) and although speed might have been a factor, it was not the primary cause.

Woodsy
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Old 01-23-2023, 04:03 PM   #43
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Whatever the circumstances, I suspect Capt. Dunleavey would not have recorded 65 MPH+ without reasonable probability of knowing that this number is correct. And wherever the swimmer was, it shows that at 65 MPH (or so) one's ability to spot and avoid danger is impaired. So what about a skier who has fallen in the Broads? Will he/she be seen? Or are we to give over the Broads just to the speed boaters?

But whatever the circumstances, this flies in the face of Woodsy's assertion that there have not been any daytime speeding related accidents.

Many lakes, Lake George for example, have speed limits. I suspect ours will stand as presently written.
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Old 01-23-2023, 04:37 PM   #44
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Whatever the circumstances, I suspect Capt. Dunleavey would not have recorded 65 MPH+ without reasonable probability of knowing that this number is correct. And wherever the swimmer was, it shows that at 65 MPH (or so) one's ability to spot and avoid danger is impaired. So what about a skier who has fallen in the Broads? Will he/she be seen? Or are we to give over the Broads just to the speed boaters?

But whatever the circumstances, this flies in the face of Woodsy's assertion that there have not been any daytime speeding related accidents.

Many lakes, Lake George for example, have speed limits. I suspect ours will stand as presently written.
So I am going to here, what I see is you typing a response, indicating that Capt. Dunleavey, made a statement as such, however where is the official document from him stating that..... If I hear it from him, or I see something that indicates it came from other then word of mouth I have no choice but to agree with the statement.

The last time I looked into this accident, there was nothing published from a detailed perspective, only that speed was not the only contributing factor. There was and never has been an argument other than that the Boat operator was at fault, and failed "to keep a proper lookout".... they probably violated the 150' rule etc. etc......

At the end of the day, speed is not the problem... Everyone I have ever known, that has a boat capable of 45+ MPH, doesn't run into crowded areas, or by swimmers and kayakers..... I guess the unfortunate message here, is that responsible people have to pay the price for idiots.... At this point in my life I have no dog in this fight, I happily own a pontoon boat that tops out at about 22 MPH.... but at the end of the day, I hate to see regulations come into play, that give a false sense of security... and that is all the speed limit does......
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Old 01-23-2023, 05:12 PM   #45
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Most people would not choose to picnic on the median strip of I-93. Nor do they want to be fishing, sailing, or family boating and have some Go Fast Be Loud boat zoom by them legally at 65+ MPH and only 150' away. We know people push the 45 MPH law. A lot. Give them 65 MPH and they'll push that limit as well. And however one spins it, a boat going 65 MPH did not see a swimmer (unless you're accusing Capt. Dunleavey of being untruthful...though you seem to be indicating such. Perhaps you need to contact the MP and further inform us).
As noted earlier by me, 80% of the NH House supported 45/30 with an even higher percentage of reps from towns bordering the lake. These reps listened to their constituents.

Last edited by sunset on the dock; 01-23-2023 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 01-23-2023, 08:31 PM   #46
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Default Performance boats vs wakeboat boats

I don't know how many times I have posted this view, but I still believe that wakeboats throwing monster wakes are much more of a safety issue than performance boats going faster than 45 mph. That's been what I have observed on the lake over the past 30+ years. I'm not saying we should ban certain boats or pass more ridiculous laws that make people feel good but do not solve any problems, but to say "go fast be loud" boats are a safety issue, in isolation, is not a fair statement (I believe).

i would rank most dangerous as follows:

1) Drunks
2) Drunks
3) Drunks
4) Operator not paying attention
5) Wake boats throwing huge wakes
6) Monster cabin cruisers throwing big wakes
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Old 01-23-2023, 08:46 PM   #47
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I stand corrected... Thank you!

4 total accidents where speed may have been a factor, but only 1 accident over the actual speed limit and it involved an 18' bass boat, not a go fast boat.

Hundreds of thousands of hours annually boated on just Winnipesaukee, probably well over 1 million hours collectively since after the law was passed... and we have exactly 1 accident! Hardly a cause for alarm or a law.

Now we don't know all the details of said accident, fishing boat saw kayak but not swimmer? How far away from the kayak was the swimmer? There is no doubt in my mind it was 100% negligent operation on the boat driver, (I would guess he was into the 150' bubble) and although speed might have been a factor, it was not the primary cause.

Woodsy
The law does not signify a specific type of vessel. And only one accident with over one million hours since the law was passed would signify that the law may be working.

It would need to be compared to a time prior to the laws enactment, or should it be changed the period after the enactment to determine its effectiveness.

If the results before the law, or after a change, are the same or improved... then the law would be deemed to not have been effective.

It is really insignificant, since the vote is unlikely to change.
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Old 01-24-2023, 08:40 AM   #48
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The law does not signify a specific type of vessel. And only one accident with over one million hours since the law was passed would signify that the law may be working.

It would need to be compared to a time prior to the laws enactment, or should it be changed the period after the enactment to determine its effectiveness.

If the results before the law, or after a change, are the same or improved... then the law would be deemed to not have been effective.

It is really insignificant, since the vote is unlikely to change.
You were clearly not here for the last go around... prior to the speed limit, there were no accidents where speed was the primary cause of the accident, although, just as above there were accidents where speed was a factor. But there are not enough accidents to impose restrictions in an area where visibility is measured in miles.

Most of the boating accidents occur at night and involve alcohol & poor decisions.

The reality is, if someone is going to rip around the Broads at 65 its a big bunch of nothing. The odds of getting stopped for that are the same as getting stopped for going 75 on 93. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. The NHMP has better things to do than worry about a fast boat in the Broads.

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Old 01-24-2023, 08:44 AM   #49
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I don't know how many times I have posted this view, but I still believe that wakeboats throwing monster wakes are much more of a safety issue than performance boats going faster than 45 mph. That's been what I have observed on the lake over the past 30+ years. I'm not saying we should ban certain boats or pass more ridiculous laws that make people feel good but do not solve any problems, but to say "go fast be loud" boats are a safety issue, in isolation, is not a fair statement (I believe).

i would rank most dangerous as follows:

1) Drunks
2) Drunks
3) Drunks
4) Operator not paying attention
5) Wake boats throwing huge wakes
6) Monster cabin cruisers throwing big wakes
I agree that alcohol, wake boats and the other things on your list are problems. But they are not in question here, so they are beside the point...

There's no doubt that the Be Loud aspect is a big reason for the opposition to keeping the speed limit as-is. It's kind of funny that the folks who want to increase the limit keep ignoring/dismissing this and asserting that safety is the ONLY reason, then through up a whole bunch of smoke around safety.
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Old 01-24-2023, 09:04 AM   #50
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You were clearly not here for the last go around... prior to the speed limit, there were no accidents where speed was the primary cause of the accident, although, just as above there were accidents where speed was a factor. But there are not enough accidents to impose restrictions in an area where visibility is measured in miles.

Most of the boating accidents occur at night and involve alcohol & poor decisions.

The reality is, if someone is going to rip around the Broads at 65 its a big bunch of nothing. The odds of getting stopped for that are the same as getting stopped for going 75 on 93. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. The NHMP has better things to do than worry about a fast boat in the Broads.

Woodsy
I can see that last vote. And know that since the imposition of the new limit that the number of vessels has increased. So my expectations is that it will ITL in committee and die on the House Floor.

I see no reason as to expect anything else.
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Old 01-24-2023, 09:16 AM   #51
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I agree that alcohol, wake boats and the other things on your list are problems. But they are not in question here, so they are beside the point...

There's no doubt that the Be Loud aspect is a big reason for the opposition to keeping the speed limit as-is. It's kind of funny that the folks who want to increase the limit keep ignoring/dismissing this and asserting that safety is the ONLY reason, then through up a whole bunch of smoke around safety.
They could include a limit on noise within the proposal, and that may get them more votes.
I wouldn't use the previous argument as number 4 is not going to be improved with higher rates of travel.
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Old 01-24-2023, 09:43 AM   #52
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They could include a limit on noise within the proposal, and that may get them more votes.
There is already a decibel limit law for all boats in the State of NH...

86 dB measured at 50 feet for any boat mfg. before 1978, 84 dB for boats mfg. between 1978 and 1981, 82 dB for any boat mfg. after 1981

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Old 01-24-2023, 09:48 AM   #53
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Then the may need a kicker in the proposal for more enforcement.

If the major argument is speed, they would need to have a trial period to test if the 45mph is really necessary... that can easily be placed in the bill with a sunset clause.

But it may not be enough without enhancing enforcement on the other issues that keep them from getting the number of votes necessary to get it out of committee with an OTP.
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Old 01-24-2023, 10:09 AM   #54
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If the major argument is speed, they would need to have a trial period to test if the 45mph is really necessary... that can easily be placed in the bill with a sunset clause.
This exact trial period was done years ago before the speed limit was enacted...If your bored...very bored...look through the speed limit debate archives for all the pertinent information regarding this.

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Old 01-24-2023, 10:28 AM   #55
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Default Let it go

After much debate and deliberation, the speed limit was passed. Since then, the number of boats and jet skis has increased dramatically. It's a fools errand to change the speed limit. Time to let it go and move on.
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Old 01-24-2023, 10:29 AM   #56
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Not very bored.
But I would presume that all the issues relating to the entire lake would not come into play for just the Broads.

Radio/stereo use is a newer issue. Not really related to speed. But maybe enough to get more committee members on-board with at least a trial change in the limit.

As I noted with my tenure for the OHRV... the issues, though seemingly the same, change dramatically over just a few years. Technology changes, usage patterns change, number of vehicles change...

But not sure that it changes that much from one legislative session to the next...
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Old 01-25-2023, 06:23 AM   #57
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There is already a decibel limit law for all boats in the State of NH...86 dB measured at 50 feet for any boat mfg. before 1978, 84 dB for boats mfg. between 1978 and 1981, 82 dB for any boat mfg. after 1981. Dan
Maybe check on that information?

"Fly-by" dB checks were abandoned for exams at a dock. NHMP now use their meters on the "burble" emitted while boats are stationary.(Which is easily modified later by speedsters determined to be "noticed"). Selective "open-exhausts" were guilefully made legal. (And are regularly abused).

Ironically, "Fly-by" dB exams were abandoned due to the high-speed dangers posed by ocean-racers to the examiners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patofnaud View Post
Ditto on what Woodsy said.. If I recall the speed limit was a reaction to when a certain owner of a certain marina slammed into an island at night while OUI (impaired driver). It had nothing to do with a speed-related accident. Speed was just an additional factor given the impaired state and darkness. If you want to dump 30 gals on fuel to get across the Broads faster, as long as you keep the DB down, enjoy. But above the waterline open headers for the whole lake to hear, pull 'em over...
Three lives were changed forever by the "Captain"--the leading cheerleader for unlimited ocean-racer speeds on Lake Winnipesaukee. Because a MD-neighbor was on the death scene almost immediately, victimization was kept to just one fatality. SBONH ("Safe Boaters of New Hampshire)" suddenly went mute.

Their boat's speed could have been easily determined by comparing the extent of damage to their bow and the wide red fiberglass "signature" left at the granite ledge's waterline. Proper alignment to the ledge could be assessed by the mark left on the cottage by their boat's anchor!

The NHMP and Media were mute on such a simple computation.
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Old 01-25-2023, 06:59 AM   #58
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).
Their boat's speed could have been easily determined by comparing the extent of damage to their bow and the wide red fiberglass "signature" left at the granite ledge's waterline. Proper alignment to the ledge could be assessed by the mark left on the cottage by their boat's anchor!

The NHMP and Media were mute on such a simple computation.
There is a much easier way to determine the boat's speed and it was done.

After the accident the boat was barged to Glendale and taken by truck to the Marine Patrol building on 106 in Belmont.

The engine computers leave a record so they were removed and examined. By looking at the engines RPM when the accident occurred they were able to very closely determine the boat speed at the time of the accident.
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Old 01-25-2023, 09:08 AM   #59
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Maybe check on that information?
Sure, here ya go! As far as I know these are the latest revised statutes….

Universal Citation: NH Rev Stat § 270:37 (2017)
270:37 Decibel Limits on Noise. –
I. No person may operate, sell, or offer for sale any marine engine which is capable of being operated in a manner which exceeds the following noise levels measured under any testing procedure established pursuant to rules adopted under RSA 270:39:
(a) For a marine engine manufactured in or before 1990, a noise level of 90 decibels when subjected to stationary testing.
(b) For a marine engine manufactured after December 31, 1990, a noise level of 88 decibels when subjected to stationary testing.
(c) For a marine engine manufactured in or before 1990, a noise level of 84 decibels on the "A'' scale, measured at 50 feet.
(d) For a marine engine manufactured after December 31, 1990, a noise level of 82 decibels on the "A'' scale, measured at 50 feet.
II. The director or the director's agent may order the operator or owner of any boat which he or she has articulable suspicion to believe is capable of being operated in a manner which exceeds the decibel limits contained in this section to subject the boat to one or more noise level testing procedures as provided in this subdivision or to inspection of the engine and mechanical systems for violations of this section or RSA 270:25.
III. A boat owner or operator shall submit a boat which is the subject of an order by the director or the director's agent pursuant to RSA 270:37, II to noise level testing by the director or the director's agent immediately or at the time and location designated by the director or the director's agent. No person shall operate the boat after the time designated until it is subjected to such noise level testing or engine and mechanical system inspection.
IV. The director or the director's agent may prohibit the operator or owner of any boat which fails a noise level testing procedure from operating the boat until the boat successfully passes the procedure. No person shall operate a boat contrary to such an order of the director.
V. Pursuant to the penalties imposed under RSA 270: 41-a, any person convicted of violating this section shall be fined not less than $250. No portion of any fine imposed under this section shall be suspended or reduced by the court.
Source. 1976, 6:1. 1977, 140:1. 1987, 370:5. 1989, 209:1. 2006, 234:2, eff. June 1, 2006.

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Old 01-25-2023, 09:59 AM   #60
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I was under the impression that the ''noise'' that is currently being complained about was from on-board sound systems rather than motors.
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Old 01-25-2023, 10:08 AM   #61
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I was under the impression that the ''noise'' that is currently being complained about was from on-board sound systems rather than motors.
I'll take the sound of a throaty V-8 over rap music any day
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Old 01-25-2023, 10:35 AM   #62
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I'll take the sound of a throaty V-8 over rap music any day
This is not an either/or. Both types of abuses are inappropriate
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Old 01-25-2023, 12:16 PM   #63
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This is not an either/or. Both types of abuses are inappropriate
OK - just my opinion - I will take a moderately loud V-8 over moderately quiet rap music any day.
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Old 01-25-2023, 12:27 PM   #64
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No rap crap, Please!
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Old 01-25-2023, 02:05 PM   #65
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OK - just my opinion - I will take a moderately loud V-8 over moderately quiet rap music any day.
Ha! Me too!
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Old 01-25-2023, 02:26 PM   #66
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I'll take the sound of a throaty V-8 over rap music any day
Rap is not music. lol


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Old 01-25-2023, 02:28 PM   #67
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My boat is louder than most since it has a straight exhaust on it yet everyone I pass on boat or land tends to love it. It's amazing the watching the irony of these arguments always come up. I'm just here for the comments
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Old 01-25-2023, 02:34 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife View Post
Rap is not music. lol


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certainly not the lyric parts, but a lot of the musical parts are " borrowed " from other artists, so it's kinda music... ;-)
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Old 01-25-2023, 02:51 PM   #69
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Let me apologize right now for introducing rap music (I mean noise) into a thread on the speed limit, My bad.

Hope everyone can get back on track.
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Old 01-25-2023, 03:35 PM   #70
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Let me apologize right now for introducing rap music (I mean noise) into a thread on the speed limit, My bad.

Hope everyone can get back on track.
too late....damage is done! :-)
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Old 01-25-2023, 03:48 PM   #71
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too late....damage is done! :-)
“Dr Drip” and “Snoop Doggie Poop”??

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Old 01-25-2023, 03:54 PM   #72
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“Dr Drip” and “Snoop Doggie Poop”??

You can’t make this stuff up!

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'Lil Wayne is now so old he's changing his name to 'Lil Wheeze.
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