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Old 04-30-2018, 05:43 PM   #1
WINNOCTURN
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Default Kiss Your "Dealer Applications" Goodbye

TILE: KISS YOUR "DEALER APPLICATIONS" GOODBYE (with your Club Membership Card attached)and say goodbye to your Club ONLINE MEMBERSHIP WEB-PAGE!

As of last Saturdays Special Meeting held by nhsa THEY are the only Sheriff in Town!They have total control of dispensing ID Numbers and their PRICE!

Gone are Club issued ID Number.

I cant tell you to talk to your County Director, but he probably has no say in how things go along the "BANKS" of Lake Winnisquam!



First thing tomorrow I am going to see if I can get a list of the DEALERS that Support NHSA and make them aware of what NHSA F&G are going to do to them.

KISS THE FOOT TRAFFIC goodbye ON A SATURDAY GOODBY!

It looks like the Days of leaving Club Application with Club Serialized ID Numbers are Gone and KISS Your ONLINE Membership Web Page Goodby!!!

Anyone now doubt my Claim of RESTRAINT OF TRADE and CREATING A MONOPOLY!

I am having a large GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE:

PER-NUMBERED CLUB CARDS, PER-NUMBERED SWEATSHIRTS with your MSC ID No, Cup Holders and more.

send a pm for a copy of all item we will selling.

We are are losing Two Thirds of our Sources for funding our Club. Our Dealer and Online Web Page ACCOUNTED for over 60% of our Revenue. 630 Member X = $$$$$?

30% = 252 Member Base to Start with for 2018-2019 Season.

As for the comment of a person being a Member of a Club but not NHSA going to the "CLUB POTHOLE" I do not know of anyway, at this time, they can get in to it with out a without Joining a Club. I would say Roger has some twerking to do?

Full Post, You need to read it to see how B$A$D$ it is.

http://www.slednh.com/forums/index.p...comment-103127

Last edited by WINNOCTURN; 05-21-2018 at 09:19 AM. Reason: SEENILE
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Old 04-30-2018, 09:06 PM   #2
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Can someone explain in English what this post is about


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Old 04-30-2018, 10:06 PM   #3
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Was it NHSA who got in trouble for perks for its board like a board meeting in down south covered by fees?
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Old 04-30-2018, 10:29 PM   #4
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Can someone explain in English what this post is about


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Thankyou

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Old 05-01-2018, 02:11 AM   #5
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Angry CLUB HAVE LOST 2/3rds OF THE WAY THEY GENERATE MEMBERSHIP!

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Can someone explain in English what this post is about


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CLUBS HAVE LOST 2/3rds OF THE WAY THEY GENERATE MEMBERSHIP/FUNDING!

CLUBS as they have done forever can no longer generate their own CLUB ID NUMBERS on CLUB CARDS for proof of Membership in the Club.

This now stops any Club from generating Membership that show proof of Membership of a Club with the use of Serialized ID NUMBER. This also affects AGENTS to had been sell our Membership Application that had a MSC Membership Card Attached. You could go to any one of our 3 Agents, walk in fill out the Application, Sign the Membership Card, PAY form the Membership and then Register His or Her Sleds.

This same scenario goes for ONLINE CLUB MEMBERSHIPS.

Glade this is MY LAST YEAR as Membership Chairman! Oh I think I said that LAST YEAR?

Just when things look bad they get werst?

It 2:00 AM, I think I'll go sit in the Recliner and FALL asleep. 4 oklock comes Fast

Goodnight to all!

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Old 05-01-2018, 08:29 AM   #6
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huh?


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Old 05-01-2018, 09:18 AM   #7
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Post Attempt at clarification.....

Yes, pretty confusing....let me see if I can put it in layman's terms:

Most snowmobilers are aware that, in the past, if they presented proof of membership in a snowmobile club the belonged to the parent organization known as the NHSA (New Hampshire Snowmobile Association out of Tilton), they would receive a registration discount. The law simply states that the discount is available to any club member that belongs to a club that that has membership in the NHSA. The individual club member DOES NOT need to join the NHSA to get the discount.

The NHSA charges $10 per member to represent that snowmobilers, and also provide a subscription to the organization's monthly (in season) newspaper known as the snow traveler.

For a number of years the NHSA interpreted the statute as meaning they could mandate that every participating club require all joining members to also join the NHSA at the $10 fee. This raises substantial annual for the NHSA. Several clubs and individual members filed a complaint with the Attorney General over this and several other issues. In the end the AG and the NHSA came to an agreement to stop this practice, which some believed a violation of anti-trust regulations.

Up to this point the original poster and many other clubs would generate their own internal club membership numbers that a member would then use when they registered their sled(s) to get the registration discount.

Recently the NHSA began an on-line registration process. That process was suspended during the AG investigation. Now that it is back on line the NHSA and Fish & Game (which has over-sight of the registration process and discount) have determined that club managed numbering systems cannot be audited effectively. Therefore it has been mandated that only the NHSA can issue an official membership number that will be recognized for registration discount purposes. The cost of this new service? $10 plus a transaction fee.

Some believe, as the original poster implies, that this was a work around to allow the NHSA to still collect the $10 they may have lost after the AG intervened, and are upset with both the NHSA and Fish & Game. They also allege that it will mean the end of folks registering and joining local clubs where they ride, especially through Club websites, and that will mean a substantial loss in revenue and foot traffic to local clubs and their nearby registration agents.

Others argue that it is only $10, a necessary fee to keep the NHSA functional and representing the sport in this greater time of need. Fish & Game takes the position that with the hundreds of thousands of dollars involved a reliable audit trail must be put in place.

There is a core group of riders and clubs that are vehemently opposed to this new interpretation, some who led the charge to have the AG investigate NHSA practices. There are also members and clubs that support the NHSA and Fish & Game in this effort. And, as always, it appears the vast majority of registrants are unaware or don't care about this long term battle between the NHSA, Fish & Game, and some riders and clubs.

Fairly complicated issue that most probably don't have the time to follow. Hope I've summed it up in a little more tidy fashion.....

Last edited by Skip; 05-01-2018 at 09:20 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-01-2018, 09:43 AM   #8
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Angry It's Not over yet!

There are Several of us Dissidents prepping up for the JLCAR Hearing where we hope to put an end to this.

Wimsatt's comments that started this are totally baseless when he quoted the 2012 Audit of F&G.

There is NO mention of the issues he quoted!

RESTRAINT OF TRADE/MONOPOLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:59 AM   #9
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It sounds to me like the original "anti-trust" crew forgot that the discount from the state was essentially an NHSA asset granted by the state so that NHSA could promote the sport to the benefit of all.

Now after succeeding in getting the NHSA out of their middle man role, they come to the sad realization that they cannot access the NHSA asset, and the NHSA can cut the clubs out a lot easier than vice versa.

Interesting and ironic--I guess the anti trust crew picked a fight with the wrong dudes
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Old 05-01-2018, 04:38 PM   #10
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The 10 bucks plus "transaction fee" is a nice touch.
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Old 05-01-2018, 07:23 PM   #11
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Default jbolty

In the midst of the tirade, your humor is not lost on me!
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Old 05-01-2018, 07:26 PM   #12
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What the state forgets is that without healthy clubs there will be no snowmobiling in NH. NHSA advocates for snowmobiling and helps with some of the administrative necessities but it is the clubs that volunteer to maintain and groom the trails. Making things difficult for the clubs means that many people will get fed up and stop volunteering. Who needs the hassle?
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:15 PM   #13
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Default Cut of the nose, to spite the face

NHSA membership isn't a choice when joining the Moultonboro Snowmobile Club. You pay $35 and the club gets $25 of that. A lot of donations come attached to membership mailings and on-line applications. It keeps the club afloat. This year, a groomer engine broke and it cost over $5000 to fix it. Without donations, a repair might have had to wait until next year, but it was fixed quickly and trails were groomed.

Taking the clubs out of the membership transaction likely means fewer donations. With less revenue, trail maintenance suffers and that promotes a downward spiral in the sport. Snowmobiling in NH doesn't need another problem on top of erratic weather and property owners withdrawing permission to use their land! From my point of view, a non-problem was solved by creating a new one that the industry will regret. Hopefully NHSA will realize the potentially negative impact of the decision it fought for and keep the clubs in the middle of selling memberships.
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Old 05-02-2018, 11:12 AM   #14
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Lightbulb Going to the County Meeting Tonight

NHSA County meeting
When
Wed May 2, 2018 7pm – 8pm Eastern Time
Where
yankee smokehouse (map)


Geezer,

I am going to the County Meeting this Evening. I have asked for some time to discuses this issue in an attempt to make things more understandable from MY/OUR point of view on this situation.

I won't say it could be a hostile environment, but it could be I may be the "Minority".

Audit that Major Wimsatt Quoted does not support his statements!

The 2012 Audit he quoted having all the NUMEROUSE Problems with CLUB generated ID NUMBERS had NO mention of the problems he stated. Not 1 statistic to back his accretion.

What the Audit did say was F&G was totally LAX in the oversight of Registrations as to ID Numbers. They were not making enough studies of the Registrations to know what might actually be happening as far as ID Number problems.

90% of the Audit dealt with F&G's inability to ACCOUNT with the inventory's of REGISTATION DECALS $$$$$.

Incident mentioned in the Audit, Several "BOOKS" of Decals could not be accounted for? They were eventually found in a CLEANING CLOSIT!

I would like to look at their "BUSINESS MODEL"?

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Old 05-02-2018, 04:46 PM   #15
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This may not be a post that some of you want to read, but.... Lets face it, riding in Moultonboro and surrounding areas has been marginal at best. I have seen post by Moultonboro club members that tout riding in the North Country for better riding.

If NHSA could place the money where it makes for better trails, where people actually ride/visit, why the discord?
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Old 05-03-2018, 03:44 AM   #16
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Default Collusion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
It sounds to me like the original "anti-trust" crew forgot that the discount from the state was essentially an NHSA asset granted by the state so that NHSA could promote the sport to the benefit of all.

Now after succeeding in getting the NHSA out of their middle man role, they come to the sad realization that they cannot access the NHSA asset, and the NHSA can cut the clubs out a lot easier than vice versa.

Interesting and ironic--I guess the anti trust crew picked a fight with the wrong dudes
Collusion?

We found the Collusion. It was not Trump and the Russians.
IT IS FISH & GAME and NHSA!
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Old 05-03-2018, 05:23 AM   #17
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This may not be a post that some of you want to read, but.... Lets face it, riding in Moultonboro and surrounding areas has been marginal at best. I have seen post by Moultonboro club members that tout riding in the North Country for better riding.

If NHSA could place the money where it makes for better trails, where people actually ride/visit, why the discord?
I have been involved with the Moultonborough club for many years first as a volunteer, then director, and finally president. I don't think anyone would argue that the riding up north is typically better than central NH, however not everyone in NH has the time, inclination or financial wherewithal to trek to Pittsburg or similar to snowmobile. People do want to ride and visit here. We are the third largest club in NH with over 700 members.

I volunteer because it is good for my town and the area. When I drive by gas stations and restaurants and see sleds parked at those establishments it make me happy, because, absent those people, many businesses, and more importantly, their employees would suffer. Those riders are typically locals or people that own vacation houses here. Many places just survive the winter while waiting for the summer boon (kind of the opposite of the Pittsburg and similar areas that survive summer while waiting for winter). If they don't survive the winter, they won't be here for the summer. Mostly gone are the days of a true summer seasonal business in the lakes region.

Snowmobiling in central NH is facing two major challenges- weather and land development/ ownership changes leading to trail closures. We cannot change either. We can try to do a good job of maintaining our trails and promoting our trail system. We receive grant-in-aid (GIA) from the state via registration dollars to groom trails and buy grooming equipment. The NHSA has zero to do with GIA. They do not distribute any of the monies that they receive to clubs or trail maintenance. The rest of our funding comes from the $25 that remain after we send $10 to NHSA or added contributions from our members who appreciate what we are trying to do. As Lake Geezer notes above, taking the clubs out of the process hurts our ability to directly interact with our members.
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Old 05-03-2018, 08:20 AM   #18
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Why are they (F&G / NHSA) trying to fix something that isn't broke? It was such a simple process, join club either online or at your local snowmobile dealer, pay your fee and get discount on registration...pretty simple and has worked well for years!

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Old 05-03-2018, 06:42 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by VitaBene View Post
I have been involved with the Moultonborough club for many years first as a volunteer, then director, and finally president. I don't think anyone would argue that the riding up north is typically better than central NH, however not everyone in NH has the time, inclination or financial wherewithal to trek to Pittsburg or similar to snowmobile. People do want to ride and visit here. We are the third largest club in NH with over 700 members.

I volunteer because it is good for my town and the area. When I drive by gas stations and restaurants and see sleds parked at those establishments it make me happy, because, absent those people, many businesses, and more importantly, their employees would suffer. Those riders are typically locals or people that own vacation houses here. Many places just survive the winter while waiting for the summer boon (kind of the opposite of the Pittsburg and similar areas that survive summer while waiting for winter). If they don't survive the winter, they won't be here for the summer. Mostly gone are the days of a true summer seasonal business in the lakes region.

Snowmobiling in central NH is facing two major challenges- weather and land development/ ownership changes leading to trail closures. We cannot change either. We can try to do a good job of maintaining our trails and promoting our trail system. We receive grant-in-aid (GIA) from the state via registration dollars to groom trails and buy grooming equipment. The NHSA has zero to do with GIA. They do not distribute any of the monies that they receive to clubs or trail maintenance. The rest of our funding comes from the $25 that remain after we send $10 to NHSA or added contributions from our members who appreciate what we are trying to do. As Lake Geezer notes above, taking the clubs out of the process hurts our ability to directly interact with our members.
First, let me thank you for your service in all aspects. I meant no disrespect. I was a volunteer for many years with my local club in VT.

Second, though I do not live near Moultonboro at this time, I am considering getting back in to snowmobiling in NH and would most definitely be volunteering for a local club.

So my question now.... I am seriously confused by the whole dynamics of registration in NH as it pertains to NHSA. Could anyone point me in the direction of the NHSA "Mission Statement"?
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Old 05-04-2018, 09:24 AM   #20
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First, let me thank you for your service in all aspects. I meant no disrespect. I was a volunteer for many years with my local club in VT.

Second, though I do not live near Moultonboro at this time, I am considering getting back in to snowmobiling in NH and would most definitely be volunteering for a local club.

So my question now.... I am seriously confused by the whole dynamics of registration in NH as it pertains to NHSA. Could anyone point me in the direction of the NHSA "Mission Statement"?
Thank you and I did not take it that way! Like I said, I agree that better riding is to be had north.

Here is their official purpose... https://nhsa.com/purpose-new-hampshi...e-association/

They may be doing a lot of "associating" but they certainly have little or nothing to do with "To create and maintain, mark and map, a system of public and private trails for the use of snowmobiles". Their member clubs do that along with NH BOT (bureau of trails).
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:27 AM   #21
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Every time I see a ski conditions report on TV during the winter I wonder why the NHSA doesn't work to include snowmobile trail condition reports into the news.

This would help to promote the sport to others. I think it would be useful and beneficial to get others thinking about sledding in NH!

I bet a LOT of people aren't even aware of the extensive trail system in NH unless they own a sled. Get the word out! Does anyone have a connection with the NHSA to make this suggestion?
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:58 AM   #22
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Unhappy How to contact nhsa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Every time I see a ski conditions report on TV during the winter I wonder why the NHSA doesn't work to include snowmobile trail condition reports into the news.

This would help to promote the sport to others. I think it would be useful and beneficial to get others thinking about sledding in NH!

I bet a LOT of people aren't even aware of the extensive trail system in NH unless they own a sled. Get the word out! Does anyone have a connection with the NHSA to make this suggestion?
Rich,

Here is a link to CONTACT NHSA, You can write them a Electronic Message. I am still waiting 2 E-mail Informational Requests and one "THEIR" Electronic MASAGES. Looking forward to the upcoming Annual Meeting!

https://nhsa.com/contact-nhsa-office/

Dan Gould – Executive Director Dan Gould execdir@nhsa.com

Stephanie A. Davis – Administrative Assistant nhsaoffice@nhsa.com

New Hampshire Snowmobile Association
614 Laconia Rd, Suite 4
Tilton, NH 03276
Office 603-273-0220
Fax 603-273-0218


New Hampshire Snowmobile Association Officers and Directors

https://nhsa.com/new-hampshire-snowm...and-directors/

NEWS

https://nhsa.com/news/

ALL ABOUT NHSA

http://nhsa.com/

Hope this helps?

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Old 05-07-2018, 05:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakegeezer View Post
NHSA membership isn't a choice when joining the Moultonboro Snowmobile Club. You pay $35 and the club gets $25 of that. A lot of donations come attached to membership mailings and on-line applications. It keeps the club afloat. This year, a groomer engine broke and it cost over $5000 to fix it. Without donations, a repair might have had to wait until next year, but it was fixed quickly and trails were groomed.

Taking the clubs out of the membership transaction likely means fewer donations. With less revenue, trail maintenance suffers and that promotes a downward spiral in the sport. Snowmobiling in NH doesn't need another problem on top of erratic weather and property owners withdrawing permission to use their land! From my point of view, a non-problem was solved by creating a new one that the industry will regret. Hopefully NHSA will realize the potentially negative impact of the decision it fought for and keep the clubs in the middle of selling memberships.
NOW lets talk about that engine....
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