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Old 09-04-2018, 10:38 PM   #1
rick35
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Default Kayak fees

Last week I saw that Fish and Game was looking for people. Tonight I heard on channel 9 they dont have enough money. Someone is proposing a kayak fee as a way of increasing revenue. I even heard that kayakers are hogging the boat ramps. And they dont pay fees! Boaters who pay fees cant use the ramps because there's no parking. Really? This idea has come up before but I dont think it was comsidered. How would they collect fees and how would they enforce it? We dont have enough F&G or marine patrol now. And they'd have to check kayak permits too? Watch out for new legislation and taxes by people who dont boat or kayak. They smell revenue.
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:45 AM   #2
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If the State requires permits for kayaks they should probably include canoes, paddle boards, and anything else that floats.

They could easily raise revenue by ticketing violators of the 150’ rule on Lake Winnipesaukee.
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:12 AM   #3
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kayak fees, what is this world coming too
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:19 AM   #4
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Last week I saw that Fish and Game was looking for people. Tonight I heard on channel 9 they dont have enough money. Someone is proposing a kayak fee as a way of increasing revenue. I even heard that kayakers are hogging the boat ramps. And they dont pay fees! Boaters who pay fees cant use the ramps because there's no parking. Really? This idea has come up before but I dont think it was comsidered. How would they collect fees and how would they enforce it? We dont have enough F&G or marine patrol now. And they'd have to check kayak permits too? Watch out for new legislation and taxes by people who dont boat or kayak. They smell revenue.
Just raise property taxes on the waterfront properties in the state... problem solved and the yakers can use the launches for free still!
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:20 AM   #5
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Or keep kayaks out of the power boat launching sites


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Old 09-05-2018, 07:21 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by swnoel View Post
Just raise property taxes on the waterfront properties in the state... problem solved and the yakers can use the launches for free still!


I hope you are kidding? Waterfront taxes are high enough already. Just because people own waterfront doesn’t mean they need to additionally subsidize Fish and Game.


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Old 09-05-2018, 07:25 AM   #7
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Yea, let’s raise taxes on property owners from out of state. That way we residents of NH can once again dump the responsibility of financing our state on others. Heaven forbid we add an income tax and actually have the ability to fully finance the services we provide our residents and visitors!


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Old 09-05-2018, 07:29 AM   #8
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This discussion brings to light the concept of taxing the users of goverment services.

Some would argue that only those directly involved in the activity that generates government expense should pay.

Some might contend that it is one for all and all for one so spread out the expense to everyone.

My main concern is revenue and spending efficiency.

For each new dollar brought in, what was the administrative cost to get it?

For each dollar spent, what amount would be considered “waste”?

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Old 09-05-2018, 07:32 AM   #9
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NH has always been a "User Fee" type state... I have no problem with making the canoe/kayak/sailboat crowd pay a small fee... a $10 registration sticker would be ok. No silly paperwork to carry...

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Old 09-05-2018, 07:41 AM   #10
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Default Kayak fees

You can launch at most State parks without tying up the ramps and parking areas and you have paid to use the facility


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Old 09-05-2018, 07:52 AM   #11
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I think some kind of sticker for kayakers, canoes,SUPS etc., for $5 or so wouldn’t break anyone’s bank and would help the state coffers as long as the funds went directly to oversee NH lakes and waterways enforcement.
At times, kayaks and the like might pose a danger to boaters by being where they’re not expected to be (middle of the lake)
The issue of these water “vehicles” owners jamming up parking lots which were created for boaters is real. Why not make them pay a fee as well?
They are vehicles designed for moving around on a body of water, the same as a boat. I have also seen fishing kayaks with electric motors for propulsion.
Not sure if these require any registrations but they should as they use a parking space at a lot and cruise the lakes.
No way am I in favor of more govt. but people that use state resources for free should be paying a share. I also believe hike safe cards should be mandatory.
One time on a visit to Ragged Is. the beach on the west side was jammed with kayaks from the camp across the way on Sandy Is. The campers beached their kayaks on a spot that is designed for everyone’s use and left them there while cavorting elsewhere on the island. My family and I had to leave the beach because there was nowhere to enjoy it without tripping over the kayaks.
I called the camp on Sandy island and spoke to a very gracious, “director” about the kayaks and she agreed that the campers should not have blocked access to the resource with their boats. She said this was wrong and assured that the councilors would be told not to do this on their forays on the lake.

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Old 09-05-2018, 07:59 AM   #12
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Default Seriously?

I very much doubt that NH will seriously look at implementing a fee for non motorized "boats." I did a quick search and came up with nothing mentioning and fee discussion from any elected official in NH. Maybe it is out there but I could not find it.
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:04 AM   #13
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I very much doubt that NH will seriously look at implementing a fee for non motorized "boats." I did a quick search and came up with nothing mentioning and fee discussion from any elected official in NH. Maybe it is out there but I could not find it.
It was on the news last night.... here is a link!


https://www.wmur.com/article/commiss...blems/22987740

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Old 09-05-2018, 08:37 AM   #14
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Yea, let’s raise taxes on property owners from out of state. That way we residents of NH can once again dump the responsibility of financing our state on others. Heaven forbid we add an income tax and actually have the ability to fully finance the services we provide our residents and visitors!


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Feel free to send 6% of your hard-earned income to the State of NH Department of Revenue. I'm sure they'll appreciate it, and may even send you a thank you note. On the other hand, I want to keep the State out of my wallet, so NO INCOME TAX!
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:47 AM   #15
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If the government bureaucrats had their way they would require everyones paycheck to be sent to them first so they could take what they want (not need) and give us what's left over.

I vote NO on ANY new taxes for water vehicles!
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:48 AM   #16
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I very much doubt that NH will seriously look at implementing a fee for non motorized "boats." I did a quick search and came up with nothing mentioning and fee discussion from any elected official in NH. Maybe it is out there but I could not find it.
SB410 (New Title) establishing a commission to study creating a boat safe card; signed by the Governor May 30, 2018. The report is due November 1, 2018, in time for legislation for 2019. A boat safe card, like a hike safe card would be voluntary. That may not be what the commission finds, of course.
It isn't just boat launches that are paid for by power boats. Power boats also pay for invasive species(milfoil) control, and the Navigation Safety Fund (MP) That benefits everybody, swimmers, yakkers, etc. Fish and Game also runs Search and Rescue. I don't know the numbers, but every spring we hear about S & R for accidents on spring rapids, canoes, kayaks, etc. Kayaks found but no knowledge of a paddler. Lost overboard or just the kayak blew away?
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
This discussion brings to light the concept of taxing the users of goverment services.

Some would argue that only those directly involved in the activity that generates government expense should pay.

Some might contend that it is one for all and all for one so spread out the expense to everyone.

My main concern is revenue and spending efficiency.

For each new dollar brought in, what was the administrative cost to get it?

For each dollar spent, what amount would be considered “waste”?

Lots of good points implied here. If you follow the reasoning, the conclusion would be to increase the fees on boats that currently require registration (this would include my own boat). First, these larger boats have a much bigger "footprint", so owners are bigger users of the lake and associated services. Second, it costs the state nothing to increase the price of a license it already sells.

Also, with respect to fees, the lake is unusual compared to similar resources such as state parks. To walk up Monandnock, just for example, I need to pay $10(?). But I can launch a boat, which has a much bigger impact in every way, for free.
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:09 AM   #18
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Lots of good points implied here. If you follow the reasoning, the conclusion would be to increase the fees on boats that currently require registration (this would include my own boat). First, these larger boats have a much bigger "footprint", so owners are bigger users of the lake and associated services. Second, it costs the state nothing to increase the price of a license it already sells.

Also, with respect to fees, the lake is unusual compared to similar resources such as state parks. To walk up Monandnock, just for example, I need to pay $10(?). But I can launch a boat, which has a much bigger impact in every way, for free.
You don't launch your boat for free... most of the boat ramps are town owned/supported by town taxpayers and are usually only for town taxpayers. The State Ramps are supported & maintained by your boat registration fees and are open to everyone.

I am not a fan of an income tax. I am very ok with the "user Fee" mentality of NH... if you want to use the resource, you can pay to help maintain it. I have long thought Canoes/kayaks/sailboats should pay something... I don't think a $10/yr user fee is going to break anyones bank.

Also, someone mentioned the "Hike Safe" card... there should be one for the human/wind powered watercraft crowd as well!

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Old 09-05-2018, 10:11 AM   #19
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Maybe when they look at their budget, they could start by first looking at the actual title of the agency or department name.

Then before even thinking about raising fees, figure out "exactly" what they are actually spending monies on cross referenced to a list of categories of actual tasks performed in prior years including assets they need to perform these tasks.

Simple Example (Very Fictional Numbers & Categories)
Land Acquisition = $15,000,000
Salaries = $4,000,000 (Wildlife Management & Protection)
Salaries = $8,000,000 (Search & Rescue)
Capitol Equipment = $10,000,000 (Search & Rescue)
Capitol Equipment = $1,000,000 (Wildlife Management & Protection)
Employee Training & Education = $2,000,000 (Wildlife Management & Protection)
Employee Training & Education = $8,000,000 (Search & Rescue)

IMHO if you end up with figures that end up looking anything that looks like this you really don't have a Fish and Game agency. Please don't get me wrong I really believe and support the agencies/departments original mission, but can't help thinking that its original mission has changed over the years with a haphazard list of new duties without funding for these new tasks.

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I think some kind of sticker for kayakers, canoes,SUPS etc., for $5 or so wouldn’t break anyone’s bank and would help the state coffers as long as the funds went directly to oversee NH lakes and waterways enforcement.
Agree an disagree at the same time. Waterways enforcement is Marine Patrols job. Agree:I think some kind of sticker for kayakers, canoes,SUPS etc., for $5 or so wouldn’t break anyone’s bank. What about Fish and Games mission beyond the lakes and waterways. To my comment at the begining, find out what are they are actually spending monies on before giving them more.

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NH has always been a "User Fee" type state...
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That's how I have always felt too.

I don't have an eloquent proposal or solution nor do I wish to see new state agency created but can't help but feeling that the original department of Fish an Game's mission no longer exists in a traditional sense and Concord's solution will be to put a band aid on it and then give everyone the day off for a press conference
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:24 AM   #20
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I think some kind of sticker for kayakers, canoes,SUPS etc., for $5 or so wouldn’t break anyone’s bank
Are you kidding... how will I pay for my $20 lobster roll and $10 craft beer! This is outrageous that anyone should have to pay! Can't wait for democrats to get elected, impeach Trump and give us all the free things they promised! That'll show you all!!
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:26 AM   #21
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If the Fish & Game is successful in taxing canoes and kayaks, what will be next?

Inflatable floats, buggie boards, stand up paddle boards???

The premise is the same, all these are also enjoying the use of our lakes and waterways.

This needs to stop now, before it gets out of hand
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:34 AM   #22
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Are you kidding... how will I pay for my $20 lobster roll and $10 craft beer! This is outrageous that anyone should have to pay! Can't wait for democrats to get elected, impeach Trump and give us all the free things they promised! That'll show you all!!
Maybe Concord can come up with some "Grant" monies, hold a press conference, give everyone the day off to present it, then it will all be free for everyone.
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:38 AM   #23
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If the Fish & Game is successful in taxing canoes and kayaks, what will be next?
Swimming or Bicycling

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taxing
Not actually taxing you, it will have some other clever name to make you feel better.
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:59 AM   #24
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“My advice for those who die...

declare the pennies on there eyes”
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:52 AM   #25
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It's true Rinkerguy, they never have enough money. No it wouldn't break anybody to pay a small fee for a kayak or a canoe. But we have a kayak and two canoes and I haven't used any of them at all this year. So I am not sure I would even bother to register them unless I knew I was going to have time to use them. As far as an income tax, NH does have an income tax. BPT (Business Profit Tax) and BET (Business Enterprise Tax) are nothing more than income taxes on businesses and business and professional people. And I really don't think state and federal government should be buying millions of dollars of private land.
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:04 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Watch out for new legislation and taxes by people who dont boat or kayak. They smell revenue.

https://legiscan.com/NH/research/SB410
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:06 PM   #27
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I don't mind the power boat related F&G fee, we use the boat all season long.

We have a canoe and kayaks that are used 2 or 3 times a year. Like many they are not launched at a ramp.

I have never seen paddle sport folk clogging a launch ramp. In general they could usually launch to the side of a power boat ramp. On a busy day it is the power boats using a ramp one after another.

OK F&G is underfunded and we do need those guys and gals around. So our two kayaks are the answer?

There is a voluntary "hike safe card" that also applies to paddling. If you don't buy a card then you may have to pay for any rescue.
https://wildlife.state.nh.us/safe/
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:14 PM   #28
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Talking ... a $20 annual NH water usage stamp!

Considering the White Mountain National Forest now charges $30/year for a vehicle parking sticker that gets mounted on the lower right corner of the windshield, the State of New Hampshire could consider an annual $20 water usage stamp for non-motorized vessels like canoes, kayaks, rowboats, sailboats, peddle boats, stand up paddle boards, and others.

Just designate the money goes toward lake-river-ocean related items like the NH Fish & Game Dept, launch ramps, and removing invasive species, and other items like saving the loons, and keeping phosphorus out of the lake.

Paying nothing gets you nothing, and paying $20 would help pay for everything, plus the MP could fine you $116.88, first offense, for stand up paddle boarding without a water usage stamp ....... that's right! ...... slap the cuffs on, Barney, we got us a new customer!
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:20 PM   #29
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How would a kayak sticker regulation be applied to folks coming from away?

(A little NFL lingo there )
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:25 PM   #30
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Considering the White Mountain National Forest now charges $30/year for a vehicle parking sticker that gets mounted on the lower right corner of the windshield, the State of New Hampshire could consider an annual $20 water usage stamp for non-motorized vessels like canoes, kayaks, rowboats, sailboats, peddle boats, stand up paddle boards, and others.

Just designate the money goes toward lake-river-ocean related items like the NH Fish & Game Dept, launch ramps, and removing invasive species, and other items like saving the loons, and keeping phosphorus out of the lake.

Paying nothing gets you nothing, and paying $20 would help pay for everything, plus the MP could fine you $116.88, first offense, for stand up paddle boarding without a water usage stamp ....... that's right!
Probably one of the better posts you have made.

How ever should it be the person that is doing the activity or the watercraft it self or a combination of both.

And should folks that already hold a boating certificate be exempt. Keep in mind this is about Fish and Game, should this be there responsibility? Should any new monies be split up between the two agencies F&G and MP?

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Old 09-05-2018, 01:29 PM   #31
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This issue has come up before:

2006:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ead.php?t=3998

2014:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=16868

2016: You're reading it!
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:37 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickcraft

OK F&G is underfunded and we do need those guys and gals around. So our two kayaks are the answer?

There is a voluntary "hike safe card" that also applies to paddling. If you don't buy a card then you may have to pay for any rescue.
https://wildlife.state.nh.us/safe/
When you register a motorboat in NH for the year, you get the same benefits or services as buying the $25/35 hike safe card such as getting carried in a litter down the Lions Head Trail on Mt Washington which would be a very steep and difficult rescue carry ..... no fool'n!
...............

People from away, would need to purchase a non-motorized water usage stamp for $20/year ....... could pay with four-$5, two-$10, 20-$1 .... their choice!

Do people from away have to purchase a $45 fishing license ........ yes, they do.
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:07 PM   #33
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How would a kayak sticker regulation be applied to folks coming from away?

(A little NFL lingo there )
You have to purchase a stamp before you put your boat in the water in Maine if you're an out of stater, even though the registration is reciprocal.
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:13 PM   #34
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In the "old days" every boat that went on the lake had to register in this state. Now of course they don't.
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:32 PM   #35
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Me-thinks that 1987 was the last year with the NH little metal boat license plate that was a mini version of a car license plate. T-h-o-s-e ...... w-e-r-e ..... t-h-e ......g-o-o-d ...... o-l-d ...... d-a-y-s ........ (Archie Bunker sings)

Getting the kayak sticker to actually stick to the kayak would be the responsibilty of the paddler ........ no sticker ....... you must pay a $116.88 fine, first offense ....... and your paddle is confiscated ......so, you is out there without a paddle! ........ rots-o-ruck!
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:44 PM   #36
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Sorry fll, I meant every power boat had to be registered here even if they had it registered in another state. I remember a lot of people didn't like it if they were just coming up for a week or two on vacation. Boats other than power boats didn't have to be registered at all. Although I think we mostly had row boats in those days, something you don't see too much any more. I don't remember any kayaks.
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:58 PM   #37
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It was on the news last night.... here is a link!


https://www.wmur.com/article/commiss...blems/22987740

Woodsy

Thanks for the link I did listen to and now understand where this came from. I personally do not believe they will place a free on a non motorized kayak canoe, etc. Having said that I am sure they will find additional dollars somewhere. Maybe more fees on snowmobiles, boats, fishing, hunting licenses etc...but not kayaks. Least that is what I think.
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:29 PM   #38
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Just no, to more fees!
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:36 PM   #39
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Thanks for the link I did listen to and now understand where this came from. I personally do not believe they will place a free on a non motorized kayak canoe, etc. Having said that I am sure they will find additional dollars somewhere. Maybe more fees on snowmobiles, boats, fishing, hunting licenses etc...but not kayaks. Least that is what I think.
...I have to register my 12' Sunfish sailboat why not my 3 kayaks
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:05 PM   #40
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Pay up, suckers!
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:53 PM   #41
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Exclamation While We Talk, Concord Plots...!

If fees are collected for "use", why aren't fees calculated for the number of acres-per-second a boat would use—before it would become an infringement of other watercraft rights?

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I don't mind the power boat related F&G fee, we use the boat all season long. We have a canoe and kayaks that are used 2 or 3 times a year. Like many they are not launched at a ramp. I have never seen paddle sport folk clogging a launch ramp. In general they could usually launch to the side of a power boat ramp. On a busy day it is the power boats using a ramp one after another. OK F&G is underfunded and we do need those guys and gals around. So our two kayaks are the answer? There is a voluntary "hike safe card" that also applies to paddling. If you don't buy a card then you may have to pay for any rescue.
https://wildlife.state.nh.us/safe/
Years ago, the NH Gazeteer sounded the death knell for canoes on Lake Winnipesaukee. Canoes, though still legal, are justifiably becoming an "endangered species". It's just too difficult to remain upright after being struck by a wake from oversized boats—with their non-empathic skippers. Kayaks have a familiar danger, as recently, a kayak was sliced in half by a distracted "Captain".

Kayaks are somewhat easier to control, but even their days are numbered.

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Thanks for the link I did listen to and now understand where this came from. I personally do not believe they will place a free on a non motorized kayak canoe, etc. Having said that I am sure they will find additional dollars somewhere. Maybe more fees on snowmobiles, boats, fishing, hunting licenses etc...but not kayaks. Least that is what I think.
Concord is reviewing this kayak proposal closely, as they've already spent the funding with which they'd previously absconded—from the NHMP.
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:50 PM   #42
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Yes, APS, they took the funds that Director Barrett had saved to rehab the old MP HQ. And they built a facility that will work for the next 50 years. Wise decisions in my book, especially after a tour of the new building and the environmental considerations that went into its design. Thank you Lt.

Perhaps sailboats should pay a double registration fee because their inherent right of way occupies more space than a GFBL which is in its space for a VERY limited time, while the sailboat is there, exercising RoW forever?

Time to consider others? Maybe the legislature should revoke sailboat R o W as a fairness issue?
When I hear the Mount blow her horn repeatedly in the broads, it isn't a powerboat in the way.

I applaud that you seem to be the only sailor here, sticking up for other sailors, but you need to understand the position of others, especially those powerboats who are paying the bills.
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:07 PM   #43
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I applaud that you seem to be the only sailor here, sticking up for other sailors, but you need to understand the position of others, especially those powerboats who are paying the bills.

Do powerboats pay a higher rate than sailboats? What about sailboats with auxiliary engines?
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:09 PM   #44
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I'll bet that my 7'6" inflatable is the smallest registered boat in NH.

Due to it's mighty 15 pound thrust 1979 antique Minn Kota electric trolling motor, a sticker is required.

Any kayak could beat it in a race.
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:30 AM   #45
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Yes, APS, they [Legislature] took the funds that Director Barrett had saved to rehab the old MP HQ. And they built a facility that will work for the next 50 years. Wise decisions in my book, especially after a tour of the new building and the environmental considerations that went into its design. Thank you Lt. Perhaps sailboats should pay a double registration fee because their inherent right of way occupies more space than a GFBL which is in its space for a VERY limited time, while the sailboat is there, exercising RoW forever? Time to consider others? Maybe the legislature should revoke sailboat R o W as a fairness issue? When I hear the Mount blow her horn repeatedly in the broads, it isn't a powerboat in the way. I applaud that you seem to be the only sailor here, sticking up for other sailors, but you need to understand the position of others, especially those powerboats who are paying the bills.
• There's a new NHMP building, but where is the NHMP patrolling? (Not here).

• The Mount uses "repeated blasts" as a horn? 'News to me. Not only have I never been "honked" at, I have found that the Mount acknowledges sailboat presence by steering a very considerate and professional course—and have mentioned it here previously. (Thanks again, Cap'n).

• The difference between my powerboat "fee" and unpowered sailboat "fee" is $5. A NH fee adopted 30 years ago to regulate boats that merely bend New Hampshire's wind, and leave no damaging wakes behind.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:25 AM   #46
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Fish & Game will always be underfunded. There are limited funds and in general “the people” don’t believe F&G is as essential as other agencies. In addition, there will be no guarantee that additional revenues generated by a sticker won’t go to the general fund.


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Old 09-06-2018, 09:06 AM   #47
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Fish & Game will always be underfunded. There are limited funds and in general “the people” don’t believe F&G is as essential as other agencies. In addition, there will be no guarantee that additional revenues generated by a sticker won’t go to the general fund.
One could suggest that all government agencies are "underfunded" as they all say they could do more if they had more money. For the most part the NH fee system keeps the money where it is intended to go. That is, fees go to the intended agency, taxes go to the general fund. I believe, over the years, the number of hunting and fishing licenses has not grown, but F & G expenses continue to grow, and we put more on their plate, Search and Rescue, Trails Bureau, Public Water Access, etc. Some of these programs are "encouraged" by the Feds. "Start this program and we'll give you some money." Keep the program running, but the Fed support goes away after awhile.
It is laudable in my mind that NH is basically run by volunteers, everything from the legislature to Selectmen to F & G Search and Rescue.
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:45 AM   #48
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With the increased retirement population in the lakes region could this issue be resolved if NH votes to open Casinos and earmark profits for fish and game, local schools, etc...


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Old 09-06-2018, 09:53 AM   #49
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With the increased retirement population in the lakes region could this issue be resolved if NH votes to open Casinos and earmark profits for fish and game, local schools, etc...


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Good idea, but it would take a long time to reap a lot of money from the proceeds from penny slot machines.
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:58 AM   #50
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Disagree. You must go see the high stakes BINGO Parlor at Foxwoods. Also, sports betting is now legal for all states. Would well be worth the headaches and wait


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Old 09-06-2018, 11:33 AM   #51
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I always enjoy the debate..... Not Really

Bottom line I don't see a huge problem with require sometype of use sticker.... What I have a problem with is every canoe and kayak needing one.... For me that would be three additional charges... so even if it is only 10$, that an additional 30$ every year... Once again not that bad.... As long as I know the money goes to Fish and Game only.....

But if there is anyway that the money can get diverted somewhere else... I can guarantee it will.....

I will continue to state what I have stated for a long time.... NH wake up!!!!!!!!!... the answer is simple.... 1% sales tax and the coffers will be full.... you want to protect things so that it can't be arbitrarily raised when ever Concord runs out of money... Work into bill that a increase has to be voted upon by the public on a election ballot....

Other wise... other are right... when canoes and kayaks don't provide enough because money gets syphoned to the general fund... we will have to pay for inflatable tubes, and it will go on and on....
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:43 AM   #52
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I always enjoy the debate..... Not Really

Bottom line I don't see a huge problem with require sometype of use sticker.... What I have a problem with is every canoe and kayak needing one.... For me that would be three additional charges... so even if it is only 10$, that an additional 30$ every year... Once again not that bad.... As long as I know the money goes to Fish and Game only.....

But if there is anyway that the money can get diverted somewhere else... I can guarantee it will.....

I will continue to state what I have stated for a long time.... NH wake up!!!!!!!!!... the answer is simple.... 1% sales tax and the coffers will be full.... you want to protect things so that it can't be arbitrarily raised when ever Concord runs out of money... Work into bill that a increase has to be voted upon by the public on a election ballot....

Other wise... other are right... when canoes and kayaks don't provide enough because money gets syphoned to the general fund... we will have to pay for inflatable tubes, and it will go on and on....
They will never approve a 1% sales tax and then leave future increases up to the voters, also sales tax always goes into the general fund and we now what happens once it goes there, it disappears never to be seen again
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:15 PM   #53
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I will continue to state what I have stated for a long time.... NH wake up!!!!!!!!!... the answer is simple.... 1% sales tax and the coffers will be full.... you want to protect things so that it can't be arbitrarily raised when ever Concord runs out of money... Work into bill that a increase has to be voted upon by the public on a election ballot....

Other wise... other are right... when canoes and kayaks don't provide enough because money gets syphoned to the general fund... we will have to pay for inflatable tubes, and it will go on and on....
So to play devils advocate here, and for that matter is my opinion as well.... if the fees from a kayak or canoe fee are syphoned into the general fund and thus provide no relief why is it that a 1% sales tax would be any different?!?

I'll answer that for you - it won't.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:50 PM   #54
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I don't know what a kayak or canoe has to do with Fish and Game, except some people do fish from them. So wouldn't a fee that was more related to F&G be appropriate?
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Old 09-06-2018, 03:11 PM   #55
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F&G has traditionally relied on hunting & fishing licenses for funding.... but there are fewer of them every year. It has also been tasked with SAR operations as well. Those are SAR ops can have budget busting costs. They police the ATV system too. Not to mention most small rivers & bodies of water get policed by F&G as well.

While I have no faith that the political gurus in Concord will not steal from the sticker $$$ eventually. I do think that something needs to be done to help fund F&G. I am all for a $10 sticker...

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Old 09-06-2018, 05:34 PM   #56
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I don’t think there’s a way to collect the fee or enforce having a decal especially with all the out of state vacationers. Do we want to collect the fee and then add staff to distribute decals and add staff to check for decals? Michigan thought about a $10 fee but tossed the idea in April. They had no way to manage it. Same here.
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:20 PM   #57
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Well said


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Old 09-07-2018, 08:32 AM   #58
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Why doesn't NH increase All TOLLS at the border of NH coming from every state. Just those TOLLS. Make it a 1 time 20 dollar charge to every car coming in this once great state. Yep, you guys did ruin it !!! That way instead of complaining all the time, you could sit back and scream at all the boaters. I find these conversations so hilarious to listen to. If NH is so bad, why even come here to be so upset?
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Old 09-07-2018, 08:49 AM   #59
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Why doesn't NH increase All TOLLS at the border of NH coming from every state. Just those TOLLS. Make it a 1 time 20 dollar charge to every car coming in this once great state. Yep, you guys did ruin it !!! That way instead of complaining all the time, you could sit back and scream at all the boaters. I find these conversations so hilarious to listen to. If NH is so bad, why even come here to be so upset?
First of all, there is NO place in the world like the BIG LAKE and secondly there also is not a place in the world that doesn't have issues (unless you know of a perfect place that has no issues and everyone shares the same opinion of every topic of discussion).
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:22 AM   #60
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The Fish & Game Dept has a lot to do with kayaking because F & G is the state dept that installs and maintains the many free-to-use boat launch ramps at lakes across the state.

About 3-5 years ago, F & G bought Downing's Landing in Alton Bay probably using funds raised from fishing licenses.

Getting access to the water, launching, and parking your car to unload the kayak off the roof rack is a key part of kayaking, so F & G is attached to kayaking/canoing/rowboats/small sailboats/stand up paddle boards and other non-motorized small boats.

Locally, Lakes Winnisquam, Squam, Newfound, and Winnipesaukee all have state launch ramps, totally free to use, so it seems like a $20 annual kayak fee stamp would be kayak money that is well spent.

Another way to raise needed funding is to install those 'iron deposit boxes' similar to what's used by the White Mountain National Forest at hiking trails, and charge $5/put-in, or $20/ annual sticker, so's the town launch ramp brings in funding when it is not staffed.

The local police could monitor the launch ramps from a distance with binoculars, make a blue lights pounce, and issue a $116.88 violation for kayaking without paying ....... book 'em Barney ....... slap a ticket on their paddle ....... we got us another new customer ..... hee-hee-hee!
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:55 AM   #61
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I don’t think it’s unreasonable to pay a paddling fee (kayak, sup, canoe) because, as FLL points out, F&G does support water access. I’d be ok with paying the fee but it would have to apply to everyone and be enforceable without costing as much or more than they take in. I just don’t see that happening. An honor system sounds like a good idea but in practice I’d still be paying while there’s a high probability of the people paddling next to me not paying. And someone still has to empty the honor boxes before the box is vandalized and the money stolen. That’s another non-starter.

We watch North Woods Law regularly and you have to love those F&G guys. What a great combination of law enforcement and conservation. Last weeks episode included a segment on saving a baby owl. Was it worth the time and effort (and cost) to save it? You bet it is! We do need to support them but the kayak fee just isn’t a viable solution.
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Old 09-07-2018, 10:45 AM   #62
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It absolutely is a viable solution....

You institute the fee/law and sell the stickers for $10 everywhere... store owners get $2 for selling stickers. Keep stickers same color as boat reg for easy ID.

F&G/MP enforce the law... $25 fine. Not a deal breaker, just enough to be irritating. It will not take long until you see 85%-90% compliance. The cost to enforce the law is negligible...

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Old 09-07-2018, 10:59 AM   #63
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The five dollar/day hiking pay boxes are not really an honor system. You get a two piece do-it-yourself receipt that you place on top of your dashboard so it's visible through the windshield so a patrol visit can tell which cars have annual stickers and which have one day receipts.

The WMNF system has been in use for about 15 years, and the demographics for hikers are probably similar to the demos for paddlers, so if it works for hikers ...... it encourages lake users to help by paying their small share ..... in their clean lake.
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:07 AM   #64
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Woodsy, I like your idea about how to distribute stickers but F&G and MP don’t have the staff to enforce the rules we already have. Go past Cattle Landing on a Saturday or Sunday and that’s a perfect example. If MP had enough staff they could sit there all day bagging 150 foot violators. But they don’t and they could bring in lots of money from the tickets they write.
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Old 09-07-2018, 01:40 PM   #65
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If there were a well communicated sticker requirement I speculate that there would be a significant level of compliance.

That would bring in plenty of money.

It would not take long for everyone to hear of someone who was ticketed.

Compliance would grow and then level off at some number that brings in more money.

You don't need any more staff to enforce compliance, just a requirement.

The above proposal would incentivize communication of the requirement.
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Old 09-07-2018, 02:16 PM   #66
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So to play devils advocate here, and for that matter is my opinion as well.... if the fees from a kayak or canoe fee are syphoned into the general fund and thus provide no relief why is it that a 1% sales tax would be any different?!?

I'll answer that for you - it won't.
Alright you have me there maybe.... But let me further develop the idea....

So you implement a 1% sales tax suddenly the coffers are full and there is less scrambling for money... Step on Complete.

The follow up with additional legislation to fund agencies like fish and game, etc. out of the general fund.... instead of doing things like trying to force money from illogical places...

everyone thinks that the entire equation needs only have one step... NH has a funding problem end of story... First need is adequate cash flow... Second need is a refactoring of how state agencies are funded....

I could go on and on, but I won't because you can look at other similar minded threads that have post from me and get the full picture... Trust me my outlook is much more then just adding a 1% sales tax, that is on the tip of the ice burg on what needs to happen.

Instead NH will continue to raise property Taxes until it become undesirable to own a second home in NH and then the funding problems will get worse... when people aren't paying their property tax....

As much as people hate to admit to it NH is just a broken as most other states.. Major reform is needed.... Adding a sales tax is just a way to start moving burden to other areas beside sales tax... The a host of other changes are needed as well....
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Old 09-07-2018, 03:19 PM   #67
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I seem to remember hearing NH had a surplus.
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Old 09-07-2018, 03:52 PM   #68
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The issue with the income tax is the rate can and likely rise over time.

I was a resident of CT when Lowell Weiker was elected to governor running on a "no income tax" platform.

Well, he gave us an income tax but lowered the sales tax.

Both have crept up over the years.

A 1% income tax will grow and grow and grow.

Having seen CT and NH goverments in action, I am convinced that the only way to ensure responsible spending is to maintain a budget condition of near starvation.
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Old 09-08-2018, 09:47 AM   #69
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Arrow ...... a PADDLE fee stamp!

Maybe a paddle fee stamp would be easier to monitor/administer than a kayak fee stamp?

If that brightly colored red-blue-green-orange annual $20 fee stamp were stuck to the blade of your paddle, it would make you feel like you is getting your moneys worth with every paddle stroke. The more you paddle, the lower the $20/stroke/annual fee cost per stroke which lowers the price/stroke!

Plus, when the MP putt-putts past you, coming or going, you get in the habit of waving your paddle, so the red-blue-green-orange paddle stamp can be seen by the friendly police ...... so many happy paddlers out there today!

Own two kayaks ........ well ....... the stamp is on the paddle ..... not the kayak ..... so that's a price saving ..... there ...... the stamp goes on the paddle!
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Old 09-08-2018, 05:22 PM   #70
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Question "Irritate" Them, Get More Money...

Regarding the effects of taxes:

Quote:
[The President's] economic logic was impeccable when he declared, “If you want more of something, subsidize it; if you want less of something, tax it.
http://blog.independent.org/2008/11/...-subsidize-it/
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It absolutely is a viable solution...You institute the fee/law and sell the stickers for $10 everywhere...store owners get $2 for selling stickers. Keep stickers same color as boat reg for easy ID. F&G/MP enforce the law...
$25 fine. Not a deal breaker, just enough to be irritating. It will not take long until you see 85%-90% compliance. The cost to enforce the law is negligible...Woodsy
Irritating? Make kayakers go away?

New Hampshire's previous $10 "kayak fee" got the axe:

Quote:
"The unanimity of the New Hampshire Senate reflected the strong message sent by business owners and paddlers in New Hampshire. "Evidently they received a ton of mail against SB 255," said Earl Flanders, of Plymouth, New Hampshire.
"The senator who was the prime sponsor of the bill stood up and said that he was against it".
https://www.snewsnet.com/press-relea...-new-hampshire
The following echoes my thoughts—but are not my words:

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"My boating thoughts are conflicted in many ways, but predominantly by the battle between larger vs smaller. As I approach 64 years of age, the battle has been won in my head (if not in my heart) and my personal sailing is done in smaller boats. They are used more frequently, and they have a positive effect on more lives."
Thirty years ago, sailboats paid no "fee" in New Hampshire. But for today's "fee-crazy" boating, here's a thought:

Unpowered sailboats have a large range of sail area that affects the power that drives them. Since New Hampshire's excess air remains untaxed, why not charge a variable "fee" on kayaks for their sail area? How about $1 per square foot extra?

Do you want kayaks sneaking around for only $10, when they can put up their 17 square feet of sail in seconds?

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHQGUbMSPTM

(You can't understand the kayakers in this video, because they're speaking in 'Strine).

.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:07 AM   #71
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After watching that 11-minute youtube with the sail rigged ocean kayaks somewhere off Tasmania, did you know the www.topkayaker.com located in Ossipee NH seems like the place to get a mast and sail for your $144 Walmart kayak.

By the way, if the kayak is 12' long and has a sail, then it probably needs to be registered in NH which costs about $45/year. Oh well ....... if you can afford a kayak with a sail, then the $45 is probably no big hurdle. Displaying the registration stickers without displaying the 3" high hull numbers on both sides of the bow is ok for sailboats from 12-16', so that is basically a $45 annual fee stamp.

Am not too sure about kayak sailors longer than 12' needing to be registered ....... could be one of those rules that almost never gets enforced ....... and can probably go 12' kayak sailing like this without the sticker ...... saving $45 ..... ?
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Old 09-09-2018, 09:25 AM   #72
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As much as people hate to admit to it NH is just a broken as most other states.. Major reform is needed.... Adding a sales tax is just a way to start moving burden to other areas beside sales tax... The a host of other changes are needed as well....
Yet other states have instituted multiple broad based taxes and by your own admission they too are broken and far more expensive to live in.

The answer is not throwing money at the problem and finding new an innovative ways to do this in a manner that seems to be less painful. The focus needs to be on ensuring that the money that is available is spent wisely and the government as a whole operates efficiently. Unfortunately government as a whole is not forced to do either.

I think as a whole NH does a pretty good job comparatively speaking to other states. Perfect no, but not bad either.

F&G and for that matter all law enforcement should be streamlined under the state police. There is needless duplication of efforts, infrastructure and administration. The F&G operational costs also need to be looked at and quite frankly if the SAR operations are killing the budget then those who engage in activities (especially hikers) that then are the most likely to use this service should be forced to pay for the costs associated with it regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not. I also think that fines for breaking the law are far to low, why not make those that break the law pay dearly for it instead of porking the law abiding citizens?

If a sales tax is the answer the only way I would support that is not a 1% additional tax, but an all out swap of the property tax for a hefty sales tax.
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Old 09-09-2018, 10:07 AM   #73
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...those who engage in activities (especially hikers) that then are the most likely to use this service should be forced to pay for the costs associated with it regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not.

Why do you single out hikers?

If people are charged for a public service regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not, then those who receive firefighting or police service should also be charged for it.
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Old 09-09-2018, 10:27 AM   #74
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Yet other states have instituted multiple broad based taxes and by your own admission they too are broken and far more expensive to live in.

The answer is not throwing money at the problem and finding new an innovative ways to do this in a manner that seems to be less painful. The focus needs to be on ensuring that the money that is available is spent wisely and the government as a whole operates efficiently. Unfortunately government as a whole is not forced to do either.

I think as a whole NH does a pretty good job comparatively speaking to other states. Perfect no, but not bad either.

F&G and for that matter all law enforcement should be streamlined under the state police. There is needless duplication of efforts, infrastructure and administration. The F&G operational costs also need to be looked at and quite frankly if the SAR operations are killing the budget then those who engage in activities (especially hikers) that then are the most likely to use this service should be forced to pay for the costs associated with it regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not. I also think that fines for breaking the law are far to low, why not make those that break the law pay dearly for it instead of porking the law abiding citizens?

If a sales tax is the answer the only way I would support that is not a 1% additional tax, but an all out swap of the property tax for a hefty sales tax.
Funny (NOT) how everybody talks about RAISING taxes for this and that, but NEVER TALK ABOUT WASTE, FRAUD, AND CORRUPTION, and just doing a better job of managing, and spending money (more) wisely... How about we start with looking to SAVE money here and there (FIRST), before we look to raise taxes (AGAIN)...??? How long do you have to continue to throw more and more money at a problem that NEVER gets resolved... I think that is the definition of insanity, is it not??? Why is man so stupid that he can't learn from the past...??? When I drive around and see some of these police stations, fire stations, and other Govt buildings (both local and state) that have nicer kitchens, gyms, bathrooms, and other amenities that a lot of the taxpayer's don't even have, it kind of pisses me off... Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with "rich" people, (private citizens), having it all, it's their money, God Bless them, but when I see Govt buildings that have the best of everything at the taxpayer's expense, something is wrong... Do public building's really need granite counter tops?? I know they don't ALL have them, but you get my point. Go ahead and beat me up now. Can't help how I feel...
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:11 PM   #75
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Why do you single out hikers?

If people are charged for a public service regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not, then those who receive firefighting or police service should also be charged for it.
Because a large part of and ever increasing portion of F&G's operations budge is SAR. Why shouldn't those that utilize it pay for it?

The difference with fire and police is they are paid for directly via tax dollars from the respective city or town residents they serve.
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:21 PM   #76
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The difference with fire and police is they are paid for directly via tax dollars from the respective city or town residents they serve.


If a person traveling away from their home town (tourist, business travel, etc) has an accident and receives service from fire or police should they be charged as you suggest for hikers?
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:54 AM   #77
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Here's a local bargain price kayak for sale ...... a brand new Sun Dolphin Bali 13.5 .... color medium blue ...... size 13.5' x 34" .... weighs 70-lbs.... supports 500-lbs ... "perfect family kayak" ..... seats two .....sit on top .... the Plymouth Walmart has three Sun Dolphin Bali 13.5 kayaks w/ paddles for end of season price $250 ....... reg price $495 .... just came in two weeks ago

This is a lot of kayak for $250 ...... go paddle the big beautiful Lake Winnipesaukee in sales tax free New Hampshire ....... September is the quiet month and the water is still warm enough ...... seats two adults ...... plus two kids and a basset hound ...... woof-woof-woof ....arrroooooo!
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:25 AM   #78
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The answer is not throwing money at the problem and finding new an innovative ways to do this in a manner that seems to be less painful. The focus needs to be on ensuring that the money that is available is spent wisely and the government as a whole operates efficiently. Unfortunately government as a whole is not forced to do either.

I think as a whole NH does a pretty good job comparatively speaking to other states. Perfect no, but not bad either.
I don't disagree that government budgets need to be scrutinized... That goes for every state, and also the feds...

I do disagree that NH is doing better the other states... NH faces that same delemia's as other states... and in some cases more so.....

At the end of the day, a number of things need to happen... the problem is the same elected officials keep getting elected back... And when that happens nothing is ever going to change....
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:32 PM   #79
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I don't disagree that government budgets need to be scrutinized... That goes for every state, and also the feds...

I do disagree that NH is doing better the other states... NH faces that same delemia's as other states... and in some cases more so.....

At the end of the day, a number of things need to happen... the problem is the same elected officials keep getting elected back... And when that happens nothing is ever going to change....
Well we agree on one thing, there are a number of elected representatives at the local, state and federal level who regularly demonstrate a staggering level of incompetence, or maybe they are so intoxicated on their own political agenda that rational thought and fact take the back burner to their ideology.

Far as taxes go I like that there is one source of revenue as it makes people pay attention to what they are voting for since it will be directly reflected in the big checks that are already being written. All states face the same dilemma, government is fundamentally inefficient and the tax payers are forced to pay for it. Where the money comes from is irrelevant. However so long as that funding source remains isolated to a single place, in NH's case property taxes, people tend to pay far more attention to it than if it's spread across in tiny increments via broad based taxes. Unfortunately whenever anyone tries to clean this up and run government more like a business they get thrown out of office and are crucified by their fellow politicians. Just look at what happened to Craig Benson, he tried and didn't last long. It's to bad he had some really good ideas but the "system" rejected him. Everyone talks a good game on the campaign trail but once in office many do nothing to fix things. In fact if they actually fixed things they would have nothing to complain about next time they run.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:45 PM   #80
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They never fix ANYTHING, Maxum! The politicians have been running on the same things for as long as I can remember and never fix them.
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Old 09-10-2018, 01:09 PM   #81
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If a person traveling away from their home town (tourist, business travel, etc) has an accident and receives service from fire or police should they be charged as you suggest for hikers?
If it's bankrupting the town or city why the hell not?

The Fish and Game's purpose is to manage and protect the wildlife of the state, nowhere in that job description is rescue stranded hikers. If they choose to lend a hand it should be on a best effort based on budgetary constraints. There absolutely should be charge back for each and every rescue unless it involves a person who is otherwise a licensed hunter or fisherman and has paid "their fair share" already.
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Old 09-10-2018, 01:16 PM   #82
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If it's bankrupting the town or city why the hell not?

The Fish and Game's purpose is to manage and protect the wildlife of the state, nowhere in that job description is rescue stranded hikers. If they choose to lend a hand it should be on a best effort based on budgetary constraints. There absolutely should be charge back for each and every rescue unless it involves a person who is otherwise a licensed hunter or fisherman and has paid "their fair share" already.
This statement will certainly open pandora's box. Where does it end? If I have an accident just traveling through the state on pleasure or business and I have an accident and receive emergency services, should I pay for those services?
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:30 PM   #83
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This statement will certainly open pandora's box. Where does it end? If I have an accident just traveling through the state on pleasure or business and I have an accident and receive emergency services, should I pay for those services?
Pretty much you do pay. You just don't see the bill. Once you're in the ambulance, or otherwise getting EMT services, your insurance company is picking up the tab.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:33 PM   #84
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Pretty much you do pay. You just don't see the bill. Once you're in the ambulance, or otherwise getting EMT services, your insurance company is picking up the tab.
Yes that is for EMT services but not police or fire department responses.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:01 PM   #85
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Default No to term limits

I think in NH, term limits pretty much are taken care of by the voters and the fact that our politicians are essentially unpaid ($100/year for House and Senate). With two year terms, approximately 1/3 of the legislature turns over every election; governors rarely do more than 6 years (Lynch did 8, Hassan 4, right?). Most states have a four year governor's term, and they rarely serve more than two terms.
So we're unique here and I think our volunteer government works well. We're always getting fresh faces, but we also have some dedicated folks who supply corporate memory.
BTW, the state does not run on property taxes. The towns do and you can go to town meeting to pass or amend the budget every year.
The state budget relies on Business profits tax, Business enterprise tax, tobacco tax, Interest and dividends tax, liquor revenues and the like with a significant influx of federal money.

I like the idea of a"Boat Safe" card that I can carry and use on either my canoe or my kayak, but there maybe should be a sticker too, like the one I get from BoatUS, just so others know and will participate too. This works for the "Parks plate" for my car that gets me park privileges in NH. (NH parks are self-funded, no general fund money for operations).
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:31 PM   #86
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They never fix ANYTHING, Maxum! The politicians have been running on the same things for as long as I can remember and never fix them.
That's EXACTLY why we have Trump, and look what they're trying to do to him... He has kept ALL his promises, and the ones he hasn't been able to do yet, isn't his fault because of the obstructionists, but if I had to guess, Trump is going to WIN in the end, (unless they kill him first), because he has the ultimate "Trump" card (no pun intended) in his back pocket that he's going to play any day I hear... I can't wait!!! The Sh#t is about to hit the fan. Let it fly...!!! It's time for the rule of law to pertain to the ACTUAL law breakers!! Been a looooong time coming... Libtards are out of control.
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Old 09-10-2018, 08:19 PM   #87
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That's EXACTLY why we have Trump, and look what they're trying to do to him... He has kept ALL his promises, and the ones he hasn't been able to do yet, isn't his fault because of the obstructionists, but if I had to guess, Trump is going to WIN in the end, (unless they kill him first), because he has the ultimate "Trump" card (no pun intended) in his back pocket that he's going to play any day I hear... I can't wait!!! The Sh#t is about to hit the fan. Let it fly...!!! It's time for the rule of law to pertain to the ACTUAL law breakers!! Been a looooong time coming... Libtards are out of control.
There's the Cal we all know and love/hate. Atta boy!

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Old 09-10-2018, 09:16 PM   #88
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He has kept ALL his promises, and the ones he hasn't been able to do yet, isn't his fault because of the obstructionists...

I think I could say that about every President in history.
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Old 09-11-2018, 04:42 AM   #89
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There's the Cal we all know and love/hate. Atta boy!

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I didn't start this one, (so you can't accuse me of coming on the forum with an agenda!!), but I'll be happy to join in!!!!!!!!!! I love a good (political) debate. Bring it on...
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Old 09-11-2018, 04:53 AM   #90
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I think I could say that about every President in history.


If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor; if you like your insurance you can keep your insurance. The biggest whopper in presidential history, which resulted in the worst legislation ever. Thank God it’s being dismantled.


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Old 09-11-2018, 04:55 AM   #91
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I think I could say that about every President in history.
No you can't. I could give you a long list, but for the sake of "getting off topic", I will give you one glaring example of promises made by other Presidents that were NEVER kept, that Trump has kept. It is the moving of the US Embassy to Jerusalem. Many Presidents (on both sides) had promised this move in the past, but never delivered, Trump did it in less than 2yrs!! The man makes things happen. That's the difference between a businessman and a politician.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:10 AM   #92
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And this is something relevant to kayak fees? Please start a new thread if you want to discuss politics. Don’t derail this one.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:18 AM   #93
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https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...-lakes-project

Did you know that Lake Winnipesaukee and the Sea of Galilee in northern Israel are same size fresh water lakes, and in 1993 became sister lakes, or something?

Bet you Israel does not have a Walmart with that $249, reg price $495, (no sales tax-NH) Sun Dolphin Bali, 13.5' x 34", blue, weighs 70-lb, 500-lb capacity, family kayak ....... like what they got at the Plymouth Walmart!
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:30 AM   #94
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And this is something relevant to kayak fees? Please start a new thread if you want to discuss politics. Don’t derail this one.
I'll let others defend themselves, but my response has EVERYTHING to do with Kayak fees. Our government (state and federal) is becoming all encompassing, developing an ever-increasing appetite for more and more money. It is this insatiable desire that leads us to ludicrous ideas like putting a tax on kayaks!
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:24 AM   #95
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I'll let others defend themselves, but my response has EVERYTHING to do with Kayak fees. Our government (state and federal) is becoming all encompassing, developing an ever-increasing appetite for more and more money. It is this insatiable desire that leads us to ludicrous ideas like putting a tax on kayaks!
LOL it's all good till you run out of people to take money from.

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Old 09-11-2018, 11:34 AM   #96
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I heard somebody say who says we don't have slaves any more? We are slaves to the government for half a year before we get to keep our own money. And that is only if you don't count all these other taxes other than income taxes. If you count them we work longer in the year for the gov.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:45 AM   #97
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I heard somebody say who says we don't have slaves any more? We are slaves to the government for half a year before we get to keep our own money. And that is only if you don't count all these other taxes other than income taxes. If you count them we work longer in the year for the gov.
As a business owner won't your tax burden be much lower when you file your 2018 tax return due to something Trump did earlier this year?
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:01 PM   #98
tis
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Not much lower, but a little is better than nothing.
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:10 PM   #99
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I recently heard a sixteen year old say that he goes duck hunting, on Winni, in a kayak, with a shot gun! Do people really do this?
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:18 PM   #100
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If he does he's probably illegal. I think you have to be 200' from houses to shoot. I can't think of many places on Winni where houses would be that far away.
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