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Old 12-21-2017, 07:20 PM   #1
BrownstoneNorth
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Default Property Tax Prepayment benefit possible for some NH residents

The new tax law will cap combined state & local property & income tax deductions at $10,000 in 2018. The law specifically prohibits taking a deduction this year by prepaying 2018 *income* taxes in 2017 but does not mention *property* taxes.

The state of NH allows prepayment of property taxes, BUT only if your *town* has enabled it. The Tax Collector in Wolfeboro told us on the phone today that Wolfeboro doesn't have a property tax prepayment arrangement with the state, so we're out of luck.

The property tax prepayment option is more relevant for people with second homes in NH and are likely to itemize deductions than for year-rounders who pay no income tax and property tax on only one home. Worth checking with your town and/or accountant if you've got one before it's too late if your property + income taxes exceed $10,000.

Here's one article about the NH situation, there are probably others:

http://www.vnews.com/Local-Property-...tions-14362856
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:47 PM   #2
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The New Jersey 2-home prayer .......yes, let's all say a prayer for all the poor, poor, poor folks who have a primary home in New Jersey, and a vacation lake home on Lake Winnipesaukee .... let us all pray for them.

Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! ..........and a great big amen for New Jersey! ......
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:32 PM   #3
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The New Jersey 2-home prayer .......yes, let's all say a prayer for all the poor, poor, poor folks who have a primary home in New Jersey, and a vacation lake home on Lake Winnipesaukee .... let us all pray for them.

Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! ..........and a great big amen for New Jersey! ......


New Jersey has always limited property tax deductions.


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Old 12-21-2017, 08:34 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
The New Jersey 2-home prayer .......yes, let's all say a prayer for all the poor, poor, poor folks who have a primary home in New Jersey, and a vacation lake home on Lake Winnipesaukee .... let us all pray for them.

Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! ..........and a great big amen for New Jersey! ......


I am recommending this strategy for many clients however if you have been subject to AMT in previous years it will more than likely not be a good idea to prepay as it will probably not be deductible.


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Old 12-21-2017, 10:30 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
The New Jersey 2-home prayer .......yes, let's all say a prayer for all the poor, poor, poor folks who have a primary home in New Jersey, and a vacation lake home on Lake Winnipesaukee .... let us all pray for them.

Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! ..........and a great big amen for New Jersey! ......
If NJ'ers with 2 homes were financing a tax break for the working class or the poor, this might at least be a fair point in a debate. But anybody who has read a paper or watched the news knows that the big winners in this tax bill are already rich.
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:20 AM   #6
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If NJ'ers with 2 homes were financing a tax break for the working class or the poor, this might at least be a fair point in a debate. But anybody who has read a paper or watched the news knows that the big winners in this tax bill are already rich.
You mean the fake ďnewsĒ?
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Old 12-22-2017, 08:28 AM   #7
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If NJ'ers with 2 homes were financing a tax break for the working class or the poor, this might at least be a fair point in a debate. But anybody who has read a paper or watched the news knows that the big winners in this tax bill are already rich.
As a CPA I completely disagree with your evaluation of the new tax bill. If is a very significant change and although some deductions are going to be limited many that have high income and property tax (NY, MA, CA, NJ residents) already have these deductions limited by AMT. AMT situations will change with the new bill and their tax rates are going down so it could be a wash of lower their tax liability.
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:44 AM   #8
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As a CPA I completely disagree with your evaluation of the new tax bill. If is a very significant change and although some deductions are going to be limited many that have high income and property tax (NY, MA, CA, NJ residents) already have these deductions limited by AMT. AMT situations will change with the new bill and their tax rates are going down so it could be a wash of lower their tax liability.
You "completely disagree" with my evaluation that the majority of the benefits flow to the wealthy? The corporate tax rate is dropping 14 points, the top tax rate for individuals is dropping by 2 points, the inheritance tax threshold is doubling.

You also "completely disagree" with my evaluation that NJ homeowners are going to get socked? Even though analyses from both parties support this position? Even though you claim only that "many" are impacted by the AMT so it "could be" a wash for some? How many are not?

If you want to argue that the tax bill is good for the country, that's fair game. Or if you are happy that your pass-through CPA firm is about to get one of the biggest breaks of all, that's understandable. But please don't claim CPA expertise, and then assert things that are inconsistent with the numbers.
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:49 AM   #9
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I can see where this thread is going, and it isn't good!
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Old 12-22-2017, 10:00 AM   #10
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You "completely disagree" with my evaluation that the majority of the benefits flow to the wealthy? The corporate tax rate is dropping 14 points, the top tax rate for individuals is dropping by 2 points, the inheritance tax threshold is doubling.

You also "completely disagree" with my evaluation that NJ homeowners are going to get socked? Even though analyses from both parties support this position? Even though you claim only that "many" are impacted by the AMT so it "could be" a wash for some? How many are not?

If you want to argue that the tax bill is good for the country, that's fair game. Or if you are happy that your pass-through CPA firm is about to get one of the biggest breaks of all, that's understandable. But please don't claim CPA expertise, and then assert things that are inconsistent with the numbers.

I am sorry you disagree with me. I have been a CPA for 30 years and I can go back and forth with you all day on this subject but I have clients to see today so we can agree to disagree and everyone can move on their "Merry" way.
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Old 12-22-2017, 10:09 AM   #11
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THIS IS NOT TAX ADVICE!!! But I would suggest you pay attention to "joey2665" posts concerning the AMT. Even though the AMT allowances changed under the 2018 Tax Plan, prepayment of taxes would effect 2017 returns and not see the increase in AMT allowances for 2018. If you paid AMT using IRS Form 6251 in 2016 (go back and look at your 2016 tax return details), it is possible you will also be subject to AMT in 2017. I have been told that AMT adds back all property tax deductions to your adjusted taxable income and would probably negate any attempt to prepay property taxes, since it could result in a higher AMT. I had the same idea to prepay after reading many articles on the subject, but after discussions with my tax advisor, there were so many unknowns that I decided to just pay as I go. If you do not fall into the AMT category, then prepaying may be a Federal tax benefit if your property and state income tax liability in 2018 could exceed the $10,000 ceiling allowance. My above comments are NOT TAX ADVICE as I am not a tax professional. You should check with your tax advisor as to your own specific tax situation for 2017 before making any decisions, as circumstances are unique to each taxpayer. There is still time............ Good luck !
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Old 12-22-2017, 10:13 AM   #12
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Default New Tax Law

I read somewhere (I can't find it now) that 83% of NH residents who pay taxes will pay lower taxes. How is this not a good thing? We should vote out NH's Constitutional representatives, all of whom voted against this bill. Obviously, they do not care about NH's middle class.

Peter G, this is OUR money! Whether rich or poor, I think paying less taxes is a positive for our economy. When businesses do well, taxpayers do well. However, this tax cut needs to go with severe spending cuts, which are desperately required. Washington has gotten too big. There are too many do nothing jobs and ineffective social programs.
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Old 12-22-2017, 10:14 AM   #13
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I read somewhere (I can't find it now) that 83% of NH residents who pay taxes will pay lower taxes. How is this not a good thing? We should vote out NH's Constitutional representatives, all of whom voted against this bill. Obviously, they do not care about NH's middle class.

Peter G, this is OUR money! Whether rich or poor, I think paying less taxes is a positive for our economy. When businesses do well, taxpayers do well. However, this tax cut needs to go with severe spending cuts, which are desperately required. Washington has gotten too big. There are too many do nothing jobs and ineffective social programs.
That must be "fake" news.
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Old 12-22-2017, 10:18 AM   #14
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THIS IS NOT TAX ADVICE!!! But I would suggest you pay attention to "joey2665" posts concerning the AMT. Even though the AMT allowances changed under the 2018 Tax Plan, prepayment of taxes would effect 2017 returns and not see the increase in AMT allowances for 2018. If you paid AMT using IRS Form 6251 in 2016 (go back and look at your 2016 tax return details), it is possible you will also be subject to AMT in 2017. I have been told that AMT adds back all property tax deductions to your adjusted taxable income and would probably negate any attempt to prepay property taxes, since it could result in a higher AMT. I had the same idea to prepay after reading many articles on the subject, but after discussions with my tax advisor, there were so many unknowns that I decided to just pay as I go. If you do not fall into the AMT category, then prepaying may be a Federal tax benefit if your property and state income tax liability in 2018 could exceed the $10,000 ceiling allowance. My above comments are NOT TAX ADVICE as I am not a tax professional. You should check with your tax advisor as to your own specific tax situation for 2017 before making any decisions, as circumstances are unique to each taxpayer. There is still time............ Good luck !
Spoke to my tax advisor, and he stated that I shouldn't prepay MA state tax or NH property tax because of AMT. There are many online calculators that can determine how much you should save under the new tax law. Based on what I made last year, I will save some meaningful dough. AMT kills me, so I am grateful for the new tax plan.
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Old 12-22-2017, 10:20 AM   #15
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That must be "fake" news.
I am disappointed that I can't find it! I think it was the Union Leader, but I know I read it. Take it for what it's worth!
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Old 12-22-2017, 10:27 AM   #16
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Spoke to my tax advisor, and he stated that I shouldn't prepay MA state tax or NH property tax because of AMT. There are many online calculators that can determine how much you should save under the new tax law. Based on what I made last year, I will save some meaningful dough. AMT kills me, so I am grateful for the new tax plan.
That is extremely sound advice and exactly what I am telling my clients in similar situations to yours
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Old 12-22-2017, 11:08 AM   #17
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I am disappointed that I can't find it! I think it was the Union Leader, but I know I read it. Take it for what it's worth!
Just teasing. I get a kick out of everyone that uses the "fake news" moniker to support their own views, because what they support is supposedly "real news". Trump coined the phrase but most of what comes from his mouth and his tweets is questionable at best.
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Old 12-22-2017, 01:41 PM   #18
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Tax breaks bad for corporations huh?

Tell that to the employees of AT&T, Boeing, Wells Fargo, PNC, Fifth Third Bank Corp, Comcast and others who have announced they are taking a portion of their corporate tax relief to the tune of 1K or more and passing it on per employee as a bonus. Yes this is awful news.....
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Old 12-22-2017, 02:07 PM   #19
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I read somewhere (I can't find it now) that 83% of NH residents who pay taxes will pay lower taxes. How is this not a good thing? We should vote out NH's Constitutional representatives, all of whom voted against this bill. Obviously, they do not care about NH's middle class.

Peter G, this is OUR money! Whether rich or poor, I think paying less taxes is a positive for our economy. When businesses do well, taxpayers do well. However, this tax cut needs to go with severe spending cuts, which are desperately required. Washington has gotten too big. There are too many do nothing jobs and ineffective social programs.
Major, though we disagree, I respect your position as one that at least has a reasonable amount of reality and thought behind it. My previous comments were only to correct various points of misinformation. We should all be able to acknowledge that this bill hits NJ (and other blue state) property owners hard, and it provides the best benefits for those already rich while giving only modest breaks to the vast majority of the 83% you mention. Also likely to increase the national debt by over a trillion dollars. Except for the debt impact, even Republican leaders in DC do not dispute these points.
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Old 12-22-2017, 02:46 PM   #20
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Major, though we disagree, I respect your position as one that at least has a reasonable amount of reality and thought behind it. My previous comments were only to correct various points of misinformation. We should all be able to acknowledge that this bill hits NJ (and other blue state) property owners hard, and it provides the best benefits for those already rich while giving only modest breaks to the vast majority of the 83% you mention. Also likely to increase the national debt by over a trillion dollars. Except for the debt impact, even Republican leaders in DC do not dispute these points.
Understood. However, I find it funny that when Obamacare was introduced, Democrats proudly announced that each family will save $2,500 on health insurance, like $2,500 was a lot of money. (For the record, I think $2,500 is significant. Also, I will refrain from commenting on the financial effect of Obamacare on health insurance.) Now, the $2000 or so tax break the present tax reform will afford each family is being called "modest." Also, for years conservatives (not Republicans) have been concerned about the national debt, with no word from Democrats. Now, all of a sudden, Democrats are frantic about the debt.

Although I pay MA state taxes, I agree with the Republican approach to punish blue states. Government can succeed with less taxes, and maybe those states should consider eliminating state income taxes, which I think is the goal.

As stated above, the issue is spending, not revenue. Government (U.S. and state) severely needs to be pared back. We have a spending problem.
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Old 12-22-2017, 03:04 PM   #21
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I am disappointed that I can't find it! I think it was the Union Leader, but I know I read it. Take it for what it's worth!
You mean this one, Major?

http://www.unionleader.com/politics/...save--20171220


Amazing that the people who pay the most in taxes (the "RICH" according to Peter G.) are getting the biggest benefit from the tax bill. What a country!

And I'm disgusted that Shaheen and Hasson voted against the people of NH. I hope that the people of NH will remember this when they are up for re-election.
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Old 12-22-2017, 03:05 PM   #22
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Tax breaks bad for corporations huh?

Tell that to the employees of AT&T, Boeing, Wells Fargo, PNC, Fifth Third Bank Corp, Comcast and others who have announced they are taking a portion of their corporate tax relief to the tune of 1K or more and passing it on per employee as a bonus. Yes this is awful news.....
Yay! After reaping billions of dollars, they're giving back thousands to the people who made them billions. So very nice of them! (Oh, and most of those companies are somewhere in the 8-10% effective tax rate and have either laid off many people (AT&T) or punished workers for executive actions (Wells Fargo).

Oh, and many, like AT&T and Boeing, are doing it to get in Trump's good graces, NOT because it's the right thing to do. They could've done it all along.

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Old 12-22-2017, 03:07 PM   #23
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You mean this one, Major?

http://www.unionleader.com/politics/...save--20171220


Amazing that the people who pay the most in taxes (the "RICH" according to Peter G.) are getting the biggest benefit from the tax bill. What a country!

And I'm disgusted that Shaheen and Hasson voted against the people of NH. I hope that the people of NH will remember this when they are up for re-election.
Yes! I had the percentage wrong. 89%!
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Old 12-22-2017, 04:09 PM   #24
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The non-partisan Tax Policy Center has said that by 2027, 83% of this tax bill's benefits will go to the top 1%.

Does that seem right?

The trickle down economics theory has had VERY mixed reviews, many claiming it does not work at all.

Someone said earlier they did not like the way this thread was going. This tax bill is going to have a MAJOR impact on our country's future. Why shouldn't it be discussed?
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Old 12-22-2017, 04:19 PM   #25
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The non-partisan Tax Policy Center has said that by 2027, 83% of this tax bill's benefits will go to the top 1%.

Does that seem right?

The trickle down economics theory has had VERY mixed reviews, many claiming it does not work at all.

Someone said earlier they did not like the way this thread was going. This tax bill is going to have a MAJOR impact on our country's future. Why shouldn't it be discussed?
We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point.

Regarding trickle down, do you own a business? Big or small, businesses create jobs. And it's not just jobs, it's the parts manufacturers, local restaurants, coffee shops, clothing shops, etc. that support businesses. Yes, leaders of large companies and owners of small and medium companies make money. However, in a capitalistic economy, we should be less concerned about how much wealthy people make but more on how we can enable businesses to succeed. The corporate tax cut achieves this objective.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:07 PM   #26
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We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point.



Regarding trickle down, do you own a business? Big or small, businesses create jobs. And it's not just jobs, it's the parts manufacturers, local restaurants, coffee shops, clothing shops, etc. that support businesses. Yes, leaders of large companies and owners of small and medium companies make money. However, in a capitalistic economy, we should be less concerned about how much wealthy people make but more on how we can enable businesses to succeed. The corporate tax cut achieves this objective.


Very well stated Major. If businesses big and small are not successful our economy will collapse inflation with rise and there will be no money to fund Services.


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Old 12-22-2017, 05:15 PM   #27
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We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point.

Regarding trickle down, do you own a business? Big or small, businesses create jobs. And it's not just jobs, it's the parts manufacturers, local restaurants, coffee shops, clothing shops, etc. that support businesses. Yes, leaders of large companies and owners of small and medium companies make money. However, in a capitalistic economy, we should be less concerned about how much wealthy people make but more on how we can enable businesses to succeed. The corporate tax cut achieves this objective.
The libs don’t want private entities to succeed; rather, they want government to succeed so they are the ones with control. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that this tax cut will help everyone, either directly or indirectly. And for that matter, it won’t be a pig-in-a-poke as was that fraud Obamacare program.
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:19 PM   #28
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"We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point."



Didn't discuss Obamacare? Unless you believe Snopes to be "fake news", consider that they rated "no discussion prior to the passage of Obamacare"- False.

In fact, there were 79 meetings in which 161 amendments offered by Republicans were voted in. Number of public hearings for the Republican's new tax bill? Zero. Input from Democrats? Hah.

Amount of time legislators and the public had to review Obamacare? Months. Amount of time for the new Republican tax bill to be reviewed before voting? After trying to read hand-written crossouts on the bill- hours. Hours.

Trying to equate the events leading up to the passage of the billionaire's tax relief bill and Obamacare is clearly a false equivalency.
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:25 PM   #29
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"We should have discussed the tax cut just like we discussed Obamacare. Oh yeah, I forgot, we didn't discuss Obamacare. It was rammed in by the Democrats. Unfortunately, neither party is too interested in discussing anything at this point."



Didn't discuss Obamacare? Unless you believe Snopes to be "fake news", consider that they rated "no discussion prior to the passage of Obamacare"- False.

In fact, there were 79 meetings in which 161 amendments offered by Republicans were voted in. Number of public hearings for the Republican's new tax bill? Zero. Input from Democrats? Hah.

Amount of time legislators and the public had to review Obamacare? Months. Amount of time for the new Republican tax bill to be reviewed before voting? After trying to read hand-written crossouts on the bill- hours. Hours.

Trying to equate the events leading up to the passage of the billionaire's tax relief bill and Obamacare is clearly a false equivalency.


Now this is fake news!


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Old 12-22-2017, 11:07 PM   #30
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Default Interesting...The argument has always been...

"The rich don't pay any taxes because they have all these loopholes and deductions"...

I've heard this for decades. Now those "rich" people, who pay no taxes, are getting this big tax break?

Please endorse greater education.
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:08 AM   #31
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Default Tax laws

Seems like everyone is counting the chickens before they hatch! As a retired CPA/CMA with 50 years experience, I will chime in when the tax laws hit the books and the changes have hit the IRS website.

I have seen it many times rules and regulations change at the discretion of the IRS after the laws are written. So calm down everyone and let it play out!

Every state interpret their own laws in regard to federal rulings differently. And constituents generally contest the difference in the few years after passing. So let it iron out!

The experience I have/had is mind blowing!
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:16 AM   #32
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"The rich don't pay any taxes because they have all these loopholes and deductions"...

I've heard this for decades. Now those "rich" people, who pay no taxes, are getting this big tax break?

Please endorse greater education.
OK so to show the utter incompetence behind this argument...

1. The rich do not pay taxes because they are using all these loopholes and deductions.

2. Now these rich people who pay no taxes are getting a big tax break.


So I sit here and scratch my head and say hey wait a minute if you're not paying taxes in the first place how can you get a big tax break????

Who are you saying needs an education? Your idea of math doesn't add up
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:37 AM   #33
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Live free or die - New Hampshire!

Hooray for high property taxes ...... with this new federal, Make America Great Again, 10k max ..... you now have too much house(s) if you is paying more than 10k/yr in property tax!

Hooray for New Hampshire: no state capital gains tax, no state income tax, 5% dividend & interest tax (first $2400/yr exempt, $4800 for joint filers), and no miserable 5-cent soft drink, bottle deposits.

If people want to go waste their money playing Keno-603 ..... good for them.

Make America Great Again ..... over 10k prop tax on your humble abode(s)....you get no help from our very well groomed, , Uncle Donald.
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:05 AM   #34
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OK so to show the utter incompetence behind this argument...

1. The rich do not pay taxes because they are using all these loopholes and deductions.

2. Now these rich people who pay no taxes are getting a big tax break.


So I sit here and scratch my head and say hey wait a minute if you're not paying taxes in the first place how can you get a big tax break????


Who are you saying needs an education? Your idea of math doesn't add up
That was exactly his point; hence, the use of a question mark.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:15 AM   #35
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Much as I hate to distract us with BrownstoneNorth's excellent original post--I just spoke with Tuftonboro's tax collector.

Tuftonboro is accepting prepayments. They ask that any prepayments come with a note requesting that the sum be applied to 2018, and they imply that the amount paid in 2017 would be an OK amount to send in.

Also with respect to BrownStoneNorth's OP, I am not so certain that the Wolfeboro collector was correct a few days ago. The local officials, like the rest of the country, do not understand the law fully yet. Their thinking may be evolving now.

As others have noted, the AMT may bite you, and it's always a good idea to check with a professional tax preparer first. But if you can't get your preparer's attention over the holidays, you might want to keep in mind that as long as you leave yourself paying at least $10,000 in property tax in 2018, you do not have anything to lose with respect to the AMT by prepaying.

All of this is new and untested, but there appears to very little downside to doing all that you can over the next week to make sure that your property tax payments in 2018 are no more than $10,000.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:40 AM   #36
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"Now this is fake news!"

Yeah, kinda like I thought. Rather than refute point by point information quoted that one disagrees with, simply label it as fake and move on.
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Old 12-23-2017, 12:19 PM   #37
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"Now this is fake news!"



Yeah, kinda like I thought. Rather than refute point by point information quoted that one disagrees with, simply label it as fake and move on.


I am certain that I could find similar reciprocal numbers for the tax plan. When committees hold meetings, they count the numbers of democrats and republicans who participate, but with no real contribution buy the party not in power. Thatís where you got your numbers. They are meaningless. The difference is that most Americans were against Obamacare whereas most Americans are for a tax break.


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Old 12-23-2017, 12:43 PM   #38
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I am certain that I could find similar reciprocal numbers for the tax plan. When committees hold meetings, they count the numbers of democrats and republicans who participate, but with no real contribution buy the party not in power. Thatís where you got your numbers. They are meaningless. The difference is that most Americans were against Obamacare whereas most Americans are for a tax break.


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Old 12-23-2017, 07:49 PM   #39
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You say my numbers are meaningless with absolutely no explanation of why.
Here is a quote from Snopes (https://www.snopes.com/aca-versus-ahca/):

"In June and July 2009, with Democrats in charge, the Senate health committee spent nearly 60 hours over 13 days marking up the bill that became the Affordable Care Act. That September and October, the Senate Finance Committee worked on the legislation for eight days — its longest markup in two decades. It considered more than 130 amendments (from Republicans*) and held 79 roll-call votes. The full Senate debated the health care bill for 25 straight days before passing it on Dec. 24, 2009." *editor's note

Does the Snopes information lead you to believe the Democrat's input on the Republican tax bill had as much input from Republicans on Obamacare? Really? And then you tell us that Politico rates something "half truths" but you rate it "mostly false". OK, then, you know better than Politico.

Clearly, Democratic input for the tax bill was zero.

You say most Americans are for a tax break. That's true, but most Americans, as shown by the poll numbers below, want tax breaks to be fair for all Americans, not just the wealthy. And they would like programs like Social Security and healthcare to continue in the future, not just until the deficit gets to a point where something needs to be cut. We know what Paul Ryan would like to cut.

Here some interesting poll numbers concerning American's support for this tax bill: in a Quinnipiac University survey, just 25 percent of voters approved of the plan. Surveys from ABC News/Washington Post, CNN, Morning Consult and YouGov put approval of the plan slightly higher, but all are still at 36 percent or lower. Those numbers are a heckuva lot lower than current support for Obamacare.
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Old 12-24-2017, 04:10 AM   #40
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Default ....to avoid paying, or to evade paying?

So, by paying to your local town clerk in calendar year-2017 a pre-payment for your estimated-2018 property tax that is in excess of $10,000, are you avoiding or evading the intention of this new tax law, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017?

http://www.unionleader.com/politics/...repay-20171224 Union Leader, Dec 23: 'Tax law has some looking to prepay property tax'

Couldn't the IRS issue a ruling that pre-paying 2018-local property tax in 2017 is a design to evade paying your correct 2018-federal income tax ... that is due on April 15, 2019 .... knowing it would probably get challenged in court of law.

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cu...bs_Act_of_2017
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:52 AM   #41
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So, by paying to your local town clerk in calendar year-2017 a pre-payment for your estimated-2018 property tax that is in excess of $10,000, are you avoiding or evading the intention of this new tax law, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017?

http://www.unionleader.com/politics/...repay-20171224 Union Leader, Dec 23: 'Tax law has some looking to prepay property tax'

Couldn't the IRS issue a ruling that pre-paying 2018-local property tax in 2017 is a design to evade paying your correct 2018-federal income tax ... that is due on April 15, 2019 .... knowing it would probably get challenged in court of law.

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cu...bs_Act_of_2017
So are you really trying to suggest that anyone who makes a financial decision that may benefit them from a tax perspective is engaging in illegal behavior? REALLY?

This happens all the time and why people/businesses itemize their returns and hire CPAs to give them advice on how to manage their finances in such a way to benefit them from a tax perspective. Nothing wrong with that.

So sorry Wal-Mart doesn't offer this service for $2.99.
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Old 12-24-2017, 10:33 AM   #42
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So sorry Wal-Mart doesn't offer this service for $2.99.
Something you do learn at Walmart ...... to Make America Great Again ..... all the people need to step up to the plate ..... and pay their taxes!

To avoid paying taxes is totally legal,

To evade paying taxes is totally not legal.

So, is prepaying your local property tax a design to avoid, or a design to evade ..... a very big question ..... and one that is unresolved for now .....until it gets the attention of the Internal Revenue Service.

... the www.irs.gov ..... Making America Great Again!
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Old 12-24-2017, 11:35 AM   #43
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Something you do learn at Walmart ...... to Make America Great Again ..... all the people need to step up to the plate ..... and pay their taxes!

To avoid paying taxes is totally legal,

To evade paying taxes is totally not legal.

So, is prepaying your local property tax a design to avoid, or a design to evade ..... a very big question ..... and one that is unresolved for now .....until it gets the attention of the Internal Revenue Service.

... the www.irs.gov ..... Making America Great Again!
The most common means of tax avoidance is accomplished by claiming all your permissible deductions and credits. This is not illegal.

Now if the new law explicitly said you cannot pre-pay your property tax I would agree that would be illegal and could be classified as evasion. However in the absence of that language pre-payment for the purposes of avoidance is perfectly fine in theory. Of course one should check with their tax preparer!

In an interesting turn of events....

New York State will allow residents to pre-pay 2018 property taxes in 2017, in order to take advantage of a bigger deduction before new federal tax laws go into effect, Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced Friday.
In a news conference, Cuomo told reporters he was trying to find ways to help cushion the blow of the tax law, which he said “disproportionately hurts New York State, more than any state in the nation.”

I am stunned that a elected official, in particular a democrat who has railed in the past over not paying one's "fair share" is now purposely maneuvering state law by executive order no less to create a tax loophole for people to take advantage of. How many people will starve or better yet DIE because of this?
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Old 12-24-2017, 01:55 PM   #44
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It may be a tax loophole for residents but it would be a tax winfall for the state. The state gets to invest that money all year and collect interest and dividends.

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Old 12-24-2017, 03:45 PM   #45
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IMHO anyone who has a property tax bill of $10,000 or more probably don't give this new tax change much thought. Especially when they can afford to pay that much on a vacation home.

Remember everyone, I said IMHO.
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Old 12-25-2017, 10:04 AM   #46
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IMHO anyone who has a property tax bill of $10,000 or more probably don't give this new tax change much thought. Especially when they can afford to pay that much on a vacation home.

Remember everyone, I said IMHO.
I would respectfully disagree. People who have made good decisions all of their life that enable them to afford a property with a tax bill in excess of $10,000 probably give their financial decisions a lot of thought. Unless, by accident of birth these people were very fortunate, I think a lot of thought, calculation, and financial planning goes into every major decision.

IMHO
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Old 12-25-2017, 10:31 AM   #47
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I would respectfully disagree. People who have made good decisions all of their life that enable them to afford a property with a tax bill in excess of $10,000 probably give their financial decisions a lot of thought. Unless, by accident of birth these people were very fortunate, I think a lot of thought, calculation, and financial planning goes into every major decision.

IMHO
You're absolutely correct about first generation money, those that actually made it.

Second and subsequent generations - unless taught otherwise may not have as much appreciation for what they got and may suffer from Paris Hilton syndrome. That however is not the norm.

IMHO - I'm sick and tired of the ever increasing number of free loaders expecting somebody else to work and pay for what they want. This smug notion that oh that person is wealthy they can afford it. Constant whining and crying about the rich, income inequality and so on....well ya know what maybe if you had spent less time crying and feeling sorry for yourself as a victim, quit making stupid financial decisions, and went out and did something for yourself you'd be in a far better position. I've never seen hard work and perseverance ever lead to failure, but complacency and ignorance all but guarantees it.

FYI - I'm not a rich guy but I love rich people, and more so the story of how they got there. I don't curse them I'm inspired by their success. To bad I'm in the minority which is a shame.
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:36 AM   #48
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You're absolutely correct about first generation money, those that actually made it.

Second and subsequent generations - unless taught otherwise may not have as much appreciation for what they got and may suffer from Paris Hilton syndrome. That however is not the norm.

IMHO - I'm sick and tired of the ever increasing number of free loaders expecting somebody else to work and pay for what they want. This smug notion that oh that person is wealthy they can afford it. Constant whining and crying about the rich, income inequality and so on....well ya know what maybe if you had spent less time crying and feeling sorry for yourself as a victim, quit making stupid financial decisions, and went out and did something for yourself you'd be in a far better position. I've never seen hard work and perseverance ever lead to failure, but complacency and ignorance all but guarantees it.

FYI - I'm not a rich guy but I love rich people, and more so the story of how they got there. I don't curse them I'm inspired by their success. To bad I'm in the minority which is a shame.


Well said. Many do donít understand the trials, stress sacrifice and pressure that it can take to attain financial independence. Also just First generations but if I seen it in second and third when previous generations do not guard their assets well. To be bitter of those that sacrificed reached a certain level of wealth is simple arrogance and jealousy.


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Old 12-25-2017, 02:14 PM   #49
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Not all rich people are created equal. Not all got their money from working hard.

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Old 12-25-2017, 04:28 PM   #50
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You're absolutely correct about first generation money, those that actually made it.

Second and subsequent generations - unless taught otherwise may not have as much appreciation for what they got and may suffer from Paris Hilton syndrome. That however is not the norm.

IMHO - I'm sick and tired of the ever increasing number of free loaders expecting somebody else to work and pay for what they want. This smug notion that oh that person is wealthy they can afford it. Constant whining and crying about the rich, income inequality and so on....well ya know what maybe if you had spent less time crying and feeling sorry for yourself as a victim, quit making stupid financial decisions, and went out and did something for yourself you'd be in a far better position. I've never seen hard work and perseverance ever lead to failure, but complacency and ignorance all but guarantees it.

FYI - I'm not a rich guy but I love rich people, and more so the story of how they got there. I don't curse them I'm inspired by their success. To bad I'm in the minority which is a shame.
If I may...
I am far from rich, I made poor (hindsight they were stupid) financial decisions in my younger days. I have failed on several occasions. I have needed a hand to get back on my feet. I am thankful that today, I am in a position to help those that helped me. We were not all brought into this world with a Silver Spoon.
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:33 AM   #51
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Not all rich people are created equal. Not all got their money from working hard.

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There are different surveys out there, but 86-88% of "millionaires," those individuals having a net worth greater than $1,000,000, did not inherit their money, but earned it. I know this is true for relatives in my family.
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Old 12-26-2017, 11:19 AM   #52
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There are different surveys out there, but 86-88% of "millionaires," those individuals having a net worth greater than $1,000,000, did not inherit their money, but earned it. I know this is true for relatives in my family.
There's a sizeable difference between "inheritance" and "starter loans/parental help," etc. There is also a sizeable continuum for "earned" success, however, given the nature of one's birth lottery.

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Old 12-26-2017, 11:46 AM   #53
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There's a sizeable difference between "inheritance" and "starter loans/parental help," etc. There is also a sizeable continuum for "earned" success, however, given the nature of one's birth lottery.

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"Birth lottery!" What a joke. Three out of my four grandparents never made it past the 8th grade. One grandfather worked in a plating factory and the other was a house painter. The grandfather who worked in the plating factory was orphaned at age 8, and joined WWII at 16 to get out of foster homes and the orphanages. I'm sure if he was alive today, he would laugh out loud at the concept of "birth lottery." To take it further, my dad was a painting contractor and my mom was a hairdresser, when she worked. Again, hardly an upper hand on life.

You and others keep on perpetuating the notion that one can't get ahead without being the beneficiary of whatever reason. Nothing is further from the truth. ANYONE can get ahead if one works hard, makes good decisions and maintains a positive outlook. No doubt some have to overcome more obstacles than others, but if you were lucky enough to be born in America, you can make it!
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Old 12-26-2017, 12:36 PM   #54
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"Birth lottery!" What a joke. Three out of my four grandparents never made it past the 8th grade. One grandfather worked in a plating factory and the other was a house painter. The grandfather who worked in the plating factory was orphaned at age 8, and joined WWII at 16 to get out of foster homes and the orphanages. I'm sure if he was alive today, he would laugh out loud at the concept of "birth lottery." To take it further, my dad was a painting contractor and my mom was a hairdresser, when she worked. Again, hardly an upper hand on life.

You and others keep on perpetuating the notion that one can't get ahead without being the beneficiary of whatever reason. Nothing is further from the truth. ANYONE can get ahead if one works hard, makes good decisions and maintains a positive outlook. No doubt some have to overcome more obstacles than others, but if you were lucky enough to be born in America, you can make it!
Wow, you are so far out of touch.

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Old 12-26-2017, 12:58 PM   #55
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Wow, you are so far out of touch.

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I'm confused. How so?
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Old 12-26-2017, 01:35 PM   #56
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"Birth lottery!" What a joke. Three out of my four grandparents never made it past the 8th grade. One grandfather worked in a plating factory and the other was a house painter. The grandfather who worked in the plating factory was orphaned at age 8, and joined WWII at 16 to get out of foster homes and the orphanages. I'm sure if he was alive today, he would laugh out loud at the concept of "birth lottery." To take it further, my dad was a painting contractor and my mom was a hairdresser, when she worked. Again, hardly an upper hand on life.

You and others keep on perpetuating the notion that one can't get ahead without being the beneficiary of whatever reason. Nothing is further from the truth. ANYONE can get ahead if one works hard, makes good decisions and maintains a positive outlook. No doubt some have to overcome more obstacles than others, but if you were lucky enough to be born in America, you can make it!
You are spot on, Major. The entitlement generation cannot understand the concept of the risk and hard work necessary to succeed. Sad, in my opinion.
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Old 12-26-2017, 01:41 PM   #57
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You are spot on, Major. The entitlement generation cannot understand the concept of the risk and hard work necessary to succeed. Sad, in my opinion.
I get so frustrated when I hear that you just can't get ahead unless . . . . All of us have obstacles to overcome. Nothing good comes easy. I wish everyone understood that.
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Old 12-26-2017, 01:48 PM   #58
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Default Back on topic...

Getting back to the original topic... Gilford allows for up to 2 yrs prepayment of property taxes based on your 2017 amount. Depending on your situation, AMT may offset the benefit of doing so.
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Old 12-26-2017, 02:09 PM   #59
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I'm confused. How so?
To begin with, your anecdotal evidence. My father also has an 8th grade education and worked 40 years in maintenance/machining. With that job, and my mother's at a grocery store, I was able to attend college. That couldn't ever happen again--they haven't hired a person at Dad's shop without a college degree in the last twenty years, and mom's pay would've barely increased in the last ten.

Also, to think that success or failure in this country is purely a matter of making the right decisions throws sand in the face of, I dunno, everything we know through sociology and psychology.

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Old 12-26-2017, 02:32 PM   #60
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That couldn't ever happen again--they haven't hired a person at Dad's shop without a college degree in the last twenty years.
As the great Si Robertson said, we'll have to disagree to disagree.

I personally know the owners of two local machine shops, and a college degree is NOT required. If you're smart, and show promise, the owners of these shops are willing to give you a chance. It is hard to find good machinists.

Also, I don't place much stock in sociology or psychology.
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Old 12-26-2017, 02:33 PM   #61
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I stopped by the Moultonborough Town Hall today and learned they will accept up to 2 years prepayment for property taxes based on this years tax bill.
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Old 12-26-2017, 03:11 PM   #62
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Anyone know if Meredith accepts prepayment?
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Old 12-26-2017, 03:59 PM   #63
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NH 5% dividends and interest tax (yes NH does have an income tax).

For those that have to pay the tax, the final estimated tax payment for 2017 is due 1/16/2018. I see no reason why it can't be paid this calendar year.
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Old 12-26-2017, 05:15 PM   #64
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There are different surveys out there, but 86-88% of "millionaires," those individuals having a net worth greater than $1,000,000, did not inherit their money, but earned it. I know this is true for relatives in my family.
I don't consider a million dollar neg worth rich today unless you are in your 20's.

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Old 12-26-2017, 05:45 PM   #65
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I think we are confusing rich with making a good living. A million dollars net worth today is not my definition of rich uless you're in your 20's. Then you are well on your way. I would consider upwards of 10 million net worth as being rich today.

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Old 12-26-2017, 06:13 PM   #66
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To begin with, your anecdotal evidence. My father also has an 8th grade education and worked 40 years in maintenance/machining. With that job, and my mother's at a grocery store, I was able to attend college. That couldn't ever happen again--they haven't hired a person at Dad's shop without a college degree in the last twenty years, and mom's pay would've barely increased in the last ten.

Also, to think that success or failure in this country is purely a matter of making the right decisions throws sand in the face of, I dunno, everything we know through sociology and psychology.

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Knowing things through "sociology and psychology" is what is wrong with the thought process. How about real life. I agree with Major, anyone who wants to make it and be successful can. The only exceptions are people who have limited ability due to diminished physical or mental capacity.

There are too many people who expect the world to be handed to them. WalMart is hiring first year truck drivers and starting them at $80,000 per year. If you take that job and live a $40,000 per year lifestyle you can save a lot of money and buy some investment property. Or, you can get tattoos, smoke cigarettes, and hang with your friends and use drugs. Maybe you can even have a pregnant girlfriend too. Poor choices are the reason many people have little or no money. Everyone in America has the opportunity to be successful if they make good choices.

I have a friend who is a school teacher and for many years he expressed jealousy when I bought a house or a new car or a new boat. When I suggested that he get a full time job he didn't even know what I was talking about. That tells you all you need to know.
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Old 12-26-2017, 06:39 PM   #67
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Knowing things through "sociology and psychology" is what is wrong with the thought process. How about real life. I agree with Major, anyone who wants to make it and be successful can. The only exceptions are people who have limited ability due to diminished physical or mental capacity.

There are too many people who expect the world to be handed to them. WalMart is hiring first year truck drivers and starting them at $80,000 per year. If you take that job and live a $40,000 per year lifestyle you can save a lot of money and buy some investment property. Or, you can get tattoos, smoke cigarettes, and hang with your friends and use drugs. Maybe you can even have a pregnant girlfriend too. Poor choices are the reason many people have little or no money. Everyone in America has the opportunity to be successful if they make good choices.

I have a friend who is a school teacher and for many years he expressed jealousy when I bought a house or a new car or a new boat. When I suggested that he get a full time job he didn't even know what I was talking about. That tells you all you need to know.
You're both right--everyone has the same exact chances at success. Those people who fail are all just choosing to. Brilliant.

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Old 12-26-2017, 07:22 PM   #68
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You're both right--everyone has the same exact chances at success. Those people who fail are all just choosing to. Brilliant.

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Reading comprehension 101: I never said people chose to fail, I said they didn't choose to succeed.

My first job after high school? A gas station, pumping gas. My next job: a different gas station 1 mile down the road. But I had goals and wanted a boat. I even dreamed about a house on Winnipesaukee some day. Starting in 1970 I would cruise the lake in my boat and admire the waterfront homes, wondering how I could ever get there. I had no family there and no property (or money) to inherit.

No one ever gave me 5 cents but I figured out a path to have a boat (and many more) and eventually buy a waterfront home on the lake. I worked a lot of hours, sometimes at three different jobs, trying to get ahead. I am not special, gifted, or lucky, I just decided it was worth the the effort to do the work to get there. And I did. After 14 years on the lake I still get up every morning that I am there and look out at the lake and smile. I am very grateful to have a home there.

I believe that at a young age everyone has the same opportunity. It is the decisions that follow that determine where and how far they will go.
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Old 12-26-2017, 07:48 PM   #69
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Reading comprehension 101: I never said people chose to fail, I said they didn't choose to succeed.



My first job after high school? A gas station, pumping gas. My next job: a different gas station 1 mile down the road. But I had goals and wanted a boat. I even dreamed about a house on Winnipesaukee some day. Starting in 1970 I would cruise the lake in my boat and admire the waterfront homes, wondering how I could ever get there. I had no family there and no property (or money) to inherit.



No one ever gave me 5 cents but I figured out a path to have a boat (and many more) and eventually buy a waterfront home on the lake. I worked a lot of hours, sometimes at three different jobs, trying to get ahead. I am not special, gifted, or lucky, I just decided it was worth the the effort to do the work to get there. And I did. After 14 years on the lake I still get up every morning that I am there and look out at the lake and smile. I am very grateful to have a home there.



I believe that at a young age everyone has the same opportunity. It is the decisions that follow that determine where and how far they will go.


I am grateful that I didnít have Thinking as a parent. I would not have pushed myself and worked hard to achieve any level of success. Whatís the point, the little guy canít get ahead, right? Thereís no point in trying to be a little smarter, work a little harder, do things outside your comfort zone. The deck is stacked against us.


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Old 12-26-2017, 07:53 PM   #70
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I am grateful that I didnít have Thinking as a parent. I would not have pushed myself and worked hard to achieve any level of success. Whatís the point, the little guy canít get ahead, right? Thereís no point in trying to be a little smarter, work a little harder, do things outside your comfort zone. The deck is stacked against us.


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Kind of a low blow, don't you think?
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Old 12-26-2017, 07:57 PM   #71
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Reading comprehension 101: I never said people chose to fail, I said they didn't choose to succeed.

Poor choices are the reason many people have little or no money.
Hmm, seems close enough to me, but whatever.

How'd you get to your first job? Who taught you how to apply, interview, and fill out paperwork? Who guided you through school? Were you in a safe enough area to not worry about traveling? Who helped you get your license? Who fed and clothed you well enough to receive the education that allowed you to pursue your dreams? Who taught you that you could succeed with hard work? Who taught you how to work with money, to keep a checkbook and bank accounts, to consider loans and financing.

None of those things is natural, they all require investment from people and institutions. If either are lacking, the potential for success is hindered. Basic behaviorism. Oh, wait, psychology and sociology are the reason we're in this mess.

Note that I'm not saying success is impossible, but the truth is--whether or not you want to accept it--is that one's birth situation--parents/family, location, financial circumstances, education, race, etc.-- directly correlates to one's chances of success. Choice is only a reflection of what has been learned.

I apologize to the OP for continuing to be off-topic.

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Old 12-26-2017, 08:00 PM   #72
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Kind of a low blow, don't you think?


Fair point, but Iím not the one saying that itís nearly impossible to get ahead, and if you do, it is because of some type of privilege. Iíve seen too many people who came from nothing achieve tremendous success. I believe in making something of oneself.


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Old 12-26-2017, 08:12 PM   #73
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Kind of a low blow, don't you think?
No worries. Major was born in the forest and all his success is his own doing. No one, and no institution, had any influence on him. He's a pull-yourself-up-by-the-not-given-to-him-boot-straps kinda guy.

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Old 12-26-2017, 08:18 PM   #74
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Hmm, seems close enough to me, but whatever.

How'd you get to your first job? Who taught you how to apply, interview, and fill out paperwork? Who guided you through school? Were you in a safe enough area to not worry about traveling? Who helped you get your license? Who fed and clothed you well enough to receive the education that allowed you to pursue your dreams? Who taught you that you could succeed with hard work? Who taught you how to work with money, to keep a checkbook and bank accounts, to consider loans and financing.

None of those things is natural, they all require investment from people and institutions. If either are lacking, the potential for success is hindered. Basic behaviorism. Oh, wait, psychology and sociology are the reason we're in this mess.

Note that I'm not saying success is impossible, but the truth is--whether or not you want to accept it--is that one's birth situation--parents/family, location, financial circumstances, education, race, etc.-- directly correlates to one's chances of success. Choice is only a reflection of what has been learned.

I apologize to the OP for continuing to be off-topic.

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You have a good head on your shoulders and I agree with your well written reasons that explain what it takes for MOST people to succeed in life.
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:34 PM   #75
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No worries. Major was born in the forest and all his success is his own doing. No one, and no institution, had any influence on him. He's a pull-yourself-up-by-the-not-given-to-him-boot-straps kinda guy.

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No, but I was born to Forrest. The one advantage I had was great parents, but I had to do a lot on my own. I was the one who saw an advertisement in the paper for a day student scholarship at New Hampton School. Yes, my mom drove me there to take the test, but I took the test and won the scholarship. My parents never applied to college, so I was the one who investigated and applied to colleges. I was the one who investigated and applied for an Army ROTC scholarship so that I could go to WPI instead of UNH. No one guided me through the process. Same thing with law school, which my wife and I cash flowed.

We had moral support from my parents, but you are correct in that I did most of it on my own.


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Old 12-26-2017, 08:55 PM   #76
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We had moral support from my parents, but you are correct in that I did most of it on my own.


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So, yeah....
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Old 12-26-2017, 09:03 PM   #77
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Hmm, seems close enough to me, but whatever.

How'd you get to your first job? Who taught you how to apply, interview, and fill out paperwork? Who guided you through school? Were you in a safe enough area to not worry about traveling? Who helped you get your license? Who fed and clothed you well enough to receive the education that allowed you to pursue your dreams? Who taught you that you could succeed with hard work? Who taught you how to work with money, to keep a checkbook and bank accounts, to consider loans and financing.

None of those things is natural, they all require investment from people and institutions. If either are lacking, the potential for success is hindered. Basic behaviorism. Oh, wait, psychology and sociology are the reason we're in this mess.

Note that I'm not saying success is impossible, but the truth is--whether or not you want to accept it--is that one's birth situation--parents/family, location, financial circumstances, education, race, etc.-- directly correlates to one's chances of success. Choice is only a reflection of what has been learned.

I apologize to the OP for continuing to be off-topic.

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What a bunch of psychobabble crap! With all due respect..... thank GOD I didn't go to college or listen to people like you.

I guess I'm a unicorn then right? Believe it or not I managed to do the following having nothing but a high school diploma:

1. Move out on my own at 18 years old with nothing but what I had on my back
2. Learned to live on 75% of my income from day one, put the rest away for a rainy day - NEVER WENT INTO DEBT!!!! Paid cash for everything, if I didn't have cash to buy it I would wait to buy. Only in an emergency would I tap into savings to buy what was absolutely needed.
3. Got married in my mid 20's and shockingly my wife and I built a brand new house in lieu of a fancy wedding (yes a coherent choice we made)
4. Two years after we go married wife quit her job so she could stay home and take care of the kid - from there on out we've lived on a single income

5. Worked my ass off till I could break into the career I have now, that was done by brute force hard work. Nothing was handed to me, I made that happen.
6. Have two properties (one on the lake) and still no debt.
7. Mange my own portfolio and well on my way to retiring early.

What I have NOT done

1. lease a car or buy new cars
2. go on vacations
3. use my property as a cash register
4. pay anyone to do anything for with very few exceptions
5. go out to dinner or out on the town regularly
6. keep up with the jones'

Now how exactly does one accomplish this? Easy, work hard and every decision is all about weighing the pros and cons. It's common sense! If I didn't know I sought out somebody who could advise me. Have I made bad decisions, sure but not many and I'd classify those as taking a known risk that had limited down side should it not pan out which some did not. Am I lucky, I will simply and smugly say no, because every decision was well thought out and no I didn't need to be handheld the entire way to make this happen. But I will say that along my journey there have been plenty who thought what I was doing was crazy.... opinion vary!
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Old 12-27-2017, 07:47 AM   #78
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This thread had turned into a forum for people to pat themselves on the back.

Someone made a comment earlier about a school teacher not being able to get ahead because they had, what he considered, a part time job. While I agree it's not a job you're going to get rich at, it's a selfless job that deserves more of our respect.
Not everyone puts a dollar value on success.
It's true that choices you make help to determine the outcome of your future but some people have more road blocks to over come with no one to help them through the tough times.
Great family and friends will make your rich beyond the money.
All of us here have a passion for the NH lakes region but that's not everyones dream.
We go through life with the desire to make more money and buy more things. When we are gone no one will give a rats ass how much money you made. They will divide it all up and move on. Sad but true.
Happy New Year everyone! I hope it's a happy and prosperous one for all my forum friends.

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Old 12-27-2017, 08:06 AM   #79
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Hmm, seems close enough to me, but whatever.

How'd you get to your first job? Who taught you how to apply, interview, and fill out paperwork? Who guided you through school? Were you in a safe enough area to not worry about traveling? Who helped you get your license? Who fed and clothed you well enough to receive the education that allowed you to pursue your dreams? Who taught you that you could succeed with hard work? Who taught you how to work with money, to keep a checkbook and bank accounts, to consider loans and financing.
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I grew up in a family of 7 with one car that my parents shared. On the days my mother had the car my father took the bus to work. There was no extra money. My mother even mixed powdered milk in with the regular milk to make it go farther because the grocery budget was a little tight.

How did I get my first job? Not sure how far back to go. Had a morning paper route delivering newspapers before I went to public schools. Worked at the Dairy Queen during high school. First full time job? I walked a mile to the gas station and asked if they needed any help. Fill out paperwork? I guess I learned enough in school to read and write the English language. I saved enough to buy a Buick Special for $250 so I could drive to work.

Who helped me get my license? I paid for Driver Education with my own money and even paid to use their car for the test. When I was 21, I sold my car and used the money to buy a truck tractor, took lessons and got Commercial Drivers License and hauled other people's trailers for mileage pay.

No one taught me I could succeed with hard work. I looked around me and saw what might work and did it. From my 20's though about age 50 I worked 3 jobs, averaging about 80 hours per week.

Who taught me how to keep a checkbook? It isn't rocket science to keep a checkbook but I admit I now use QuickBooks to manage the finances of my commercial and residential investment properties. I guess you would say I have help. I did figure out how QuickBooks works on my own.

In these times of safe spaces and participation trophies many young people have neither the desire nor the will to be very successful. I have friends who are proud that their child is getting a degree in Ancient European History. Uhhh....OK. Good luck with that!
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Old 12-27-2017, 09:30 AM   #80
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WOW! 28 I/me/my's! Exactly the biggest issue in this country today!


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I grew up in a family of 7 with one car that my parents shared. On the days my mother had the car my father took the bus to work. There was no extra money. My mother even mixed powdered milk in with the regular milk to make it go farther because the grocery budget was a little tight.

How did I get my first job? Not sure how far back to go. Had a morning paper route delivering newspapers before I went to public schools. Worked at the Dairy Queen during high school. First full time job? I walked a mile to the gas station and asked if they needed any help. Fill out paperwork? I guess I learned enough in school to read and write the English language. I saved enough to buy a Buick Special for $250 so I could drive to work.

Who helped me get my license? I paid for Driver Education with my own money and even paid to use their car for the test. When I was 21, I sold my car and used the money to buy a truck tractor, took lessons and got Commercial Drivers License and hauled other people's trailers for mileage pay.

No one taught me I could succeed with hard work. I looked around me and saw what might work and did it. From my 20's though about age 50 I worked 3 jobs, averaging about 80 hours per week.

Who taught me how to keep a checkbook? It isn't rocket science to keep a checkbook but I admit I now use QuickBooks to manage the finances of my commercial and residential investment properties. I guess you would say I have help. I did figure out how QuickBooks works on my own.

In these times of safe spaces and participation trophies many young people have neither the desire nor the will to be very successful. I have friends who are proud that their child is getting a degree in Ancient European History. Uhhh....OK. Good luck with that!
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Old 12-27-2017, 10:08 AM   #81
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Iím shocked why some towns donít accept pre-payment. Any idea why this might be?
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Old 12-27-2017, 12:24 PM   #82
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Iím shocked why some towns donít accept pre-payment. Any idea why this might be?
I think everybody is still trying to figure this out--before last week, what dope would ever dream of prepaying?

Humble advice--if your town says no, ask again politely a day or two later. Or, just mail them a check with a note and keep your fingers crossed. (Worst case, they mail the check back.)
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Old 12-27-2017, 12:36 PM   #83
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Thanks to this thread I now have members that I truly look at from a different perspective, both higher and lower. Seems obvious to me which ones fit in which category. You guys rock!.
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Old 12-27-2017, 02:32 PM   #84
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I think everybody is still trying to figure this out--before last week, what dope would ever dream of prepaying?

Humble advice--if your town says no, ask again politely a day or two later. Or, just mail them a check with a note and keep your fingers crossed. (Worst case, they mail the check back.)


Thanks, Peter, but the Wolfeboro Tax Collector confirmed that nothing doing for Wolfeboro because the relevant provision in the new tax law wasn't anticipated. It was good advice to check again, though, because many other jurisdictions around the country ó state, country, or town, whichever is/are applicable ó have scrambled to take the steps necessary to enable property tax prepayment; in some cases, including my primary residence state, officials who were out of town came home for special sessions to do this.

I don't know if there would have been enough time for the State of NH to process a request from Wolfeboro to make the arrangement but, since the Tax Collector didn't mention that any effort had been made or looked into, I got the impression that the Wolfeboro selectmen couldn't even be bothered to try.
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Old 12-27-2017, 04:30 PM   #85
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Thanks, Peter, but the Wolfeboro Tax Collector confirmed that nothing doing for Wolfeboro because the relevant provision in the new tax law wasn't anticipated. It was good advice to check again, though, because many other jurisdictions around the country — state, country, or town, whichever is/are applicable — have scrambled to take the steps necessary to enable property tax prepayment; in some cases, including my primary residence state, officials who were out of town came home for special sessions to do this.

I don't know if there would have been enough time for the State of NH to process a request from Wolfeboro to make the arrangement but, since the Tax Collector didn't mention that any effort had been made or looked into, I got the impression that the Wolfeboro selectmen couldn't even be bothered to try.
The rich in Wolfeboro will just have to work harder to make-up the difference.
Nobody ever helped them get rich, they just did it on their own and they don't want it now.
RIGHT??????
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Old 12-27-2017, 06:54 PM   #86
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Hot off the presses--here's an article that highlights the volatility of the situation. Unfortunately, it seems to make clear that for many this will be more difficult than expected just hours ago.

Overall, a real hassle for thousands (millions?) who have tried to pay early, and another example of how this law arbitrarily punishes some while rewarding others:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4e15b1b8fdaf
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Old 12-27-2017, 07:00 PM   #87
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Iím shocked why some towns donít accept pre-payment. Any idea why this might be?
There are a few reasons.

The selectmen or the town meeting must vote to allow it. So, if you haven't done that at this late date, there's really no time.

If it were to be approved tomorrow, the town would need to set up a separate acct as those 2018 funds cannot go into the 2017 general fund.

RSA 80:52-a is a good place to start.

To add to the pissing contest already in progress.

1. Death should not be a taxable event. Period.

2. The leftists fear mongering over what happens in 2027 when these tax breaks for the middle class are supposed to expire is just that. No future congress is going to raise taxes on the middle class by letting them expire. Even Obama made all of Bush's tax cuts permanent. Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible. I'm betting that no one is going to go to the third rail on this.

3. We've had the highest corporate tax rates in the world. It's about time they were brought back to the middle of the pack.
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Old 12-27-2017, 07:34 PM   #88
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Hot off the presses--here's an article that highlights the volatility of the situation. Unfortunately, it seems to make clear that for many this will be more difficult than expected just hours ago.



Overall, a real hassle for thousands (millions?) who have tried to pay early, and another example of how this law arbitrarily punishes some while rewarding others:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4e15b1b8fdaf


Wow, that certainly complicates things. Thanks for sharing. So much for that.
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Old 12-27-2017, 08:05 PM   #89
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Here's a December 27, 2017 advisory from the Internal Revenue Service concerning prepayment and deductability:

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-adv...d-paid-in-2017

Excuse me while I inject a wee bit of political humor here......hmmmm......hmmmm......my my my .... and hmmm .... is time for some serious reading comprehension here ..... .... "like who knew that redoing taxes could be so complicated .... duh?" ....... just who is that little, puffy, orange emoticon?

For a totally super-duper newspaper report on this IRS advisory, google this: New York Times, Dec 27, 2017: 'I.R.S. Warns That Prepaying Property Taxes Is a Risk' by Ben Casselman.
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Old 12-27-2017, 08:10 PM   #90
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Overall, a real hassle for thousands (millions?) who have tried to pay early, and another example of how this law arbitrarily punishes some while rewarding others:
Would you be referring to ObamaCare? On second thought, I doubt it because ObamaCare punished just about everyone and rewarded no one that actually has to PAY for healthcare.
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Old 12-28-2017, 06:37 AM   #91
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Here's a December 27, 2017 advisory from the Internal Revenue Service concerning prepayment and deductibility ...
Seems pretty clear from the IRS. If the town hasn't given you a tax assessment/bill, any taxes paid ahead without it will fall under the new deductibility limits. If you have the bill in hand and pay by the end of 2017, they will be.

Center Harbor was late getting their tax bills out this year. They aren't "due" until into January 2018. Waiting to pay them until then, for some, might be a bad idea. Just today and tomorrow to pay?

However, since towns don't ASSESS taxes into the future, you can't get around the new federal tax SALT deduction reductions by paying to-be-assessed 2018 taxes ahead of time.
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:53 AM   #92
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Center Harbor was late getting their tax bills out this year. They aren't "due" until into January 2018. Waiting to pay them until then, for some[, might be a bad idea. ]Just today and tomorrow to pay ?
So, for property owners in Center Harbor with property taxes exceeding $10,000, to qualify for federal deductability on their 2017 federal taxes, they should be making payment to Town of Center Harbor by tomorrow, Friday, Dec 29, 2017.

That's like tomorrow to come up with the payment ...... plus it may have to be received by tomorrow, Friday, by the town as well ......hmmm?

Obviously, I voted for Hillary, but with my property taxes below the $10,000, the movement announcement for U.S.A. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, and deporting the ms-13's ......maybe I should start to be liking Donald Trump ....plus his presidency is very entertaining to watch.... plus there's that big fat head of orange-blond hair! .... huff-puff-puff
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:08 AM   #93
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So, for property owners in Center Harbor with property taxes exceeding $10,000, to qualify for federal deductability on their 2017 federal taxes, they should be making payment to Town of Center Harbor by tomorrow, Friday, Dec 29, 2017.

That's like tomorrow to come up with the payment ...... plus it may have to be received by tomorrow, Friday, by the town as well ......hmmm?
When you say "That's like tomorrow to come up with the payment" you seem to be implying that is unreasonable? Normally taxes would be due before the end of December so reasonable people SHOULD have the money set aside already. However, I will bet a lot of people don't know they should have their payment in by Friday. For many of us it won't matter since we either use the standard deduction or have less than $10,000 in SALT taxes to deduct.

However, however, if you don't make your payment until 2018 and it gets added to the normal June and December 2018 payments, now the total of the 3 payments MIGHT exceed $10,000 and cost you in deductions.

When tax law changes like this, some people get caught in the transition.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:35 AM   #94
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So, for property owners in Center Harbor with property taxes exceeding $10,000, to qualify for federal deductability on their 2017 federal taxes, they should be making payment to Town of Center Harbor by tomorrow, Friday, Dec 29, 2017.

That's like tomorrow to come up with the payment ...... plus it may have to be received by tomorrow, Friday, by the town as well ......hmmm?

Obviously, I voted for Hillary, but with my property taxes below the $10,000, the movement announcement for U.S.A. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, and deporting the ms-13's ......maybe I should start to be liking Donald Trump ....plus his presidency is very entertaining to watch.... plus there's that big fat head of orange-blond hair! .... huff-puff-puff
You voted for Hillary, what a shocker!
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:00 AM   #95
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You voted for Hillary, what a shocker!
Yeah... but I think maybe he might be ready to join the Trump train! How about it FLL? I have to admit, he is an entertaining president to watch and listen to...kinda like Ol FLL Himself!
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:00 AM   #96
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.maybe I should start to be liking Donald Trump ....plus his presidency is very entertaining to watch.... plus there's that big fat head of orange-blond hair! .... huff-puff-puff
You might get a chance to "liking" the orange man, but you won't get a chance to ever vote for him and you can thank Robert Mueller for that.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:15 AM   #97
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Yeah... but I think maybe he might be ready to join the Trump train! How about it FLL? I have to admit, he is an entertaining president to watch and listen to...kinda like Ol FLL Himself!
Trump's been good for my retirement account but on a personal level I think he's an A$$. We got to take the good with the bad, and there's a lot of both with him.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:21 AM   #98
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Just found out that Gilford is allowing 2 years of prepayments on your property tax...

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Old 12-28-2017, 11:26 AM   #99
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Just found out that Gilford is allowing 2 years of prepayments on your property tax...

Dan
I'm sure the IRS won't allow that second year. They already said you had to have an assessment in hand. Is Gilford going to issue an assessment beyond next year? Be prepared to be audited if you try to take it.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:45 AM   #100
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I'm sure the IRS won't allow that second year. They already said you had to have an assessment in hand. Is Gilford going to issue an assessment beyond next year? Be prepared to be audited if you try to take it.
If the town allows it I don't see how it can be an issue. If an assessment happens they will simply bill or credit (yeah right) me the amount of the revised assessment. They can audit me as I don't do anything illegal or underhanded....

Edited to add: right after I posted this my accountant called and recommended I only prepay 1 year. Something about an update the IRS just put out about property tax prepayment.

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