Sununu - 1,000 Cases Per Day - Covid-19

[TheProfessor]

"“We have 350 cases today. If you ask me where we’ll be in two weeks, I think we’re over a thousand. I think that’s it,” Sununu said."

LINK

Nationwide increase. New Hampshire increase.

The debate continues.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

"“We have 350 cases today. If you ask me where we’ll be in two weeks, I think we’re over a thousand. I think that’s it,” Sununu said."

LINK

Nationwide increase. New Hampshire increase.

The debate continues.

Ha, just Ha

That is all

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

"“We have 350 cases today. If you ask me where we’ll be in two weeks, I think we’re over a thousand. I think that’s it,” Sununu said."

LINK

Nationwide increase. New Hampshire increase.

The debate continues.

Sadly, I think he's right. I've been telling myself that everything's fine in Mass, but numbers in the Globe make it clear we are back in March/April, and headed in the wrong direction.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/...massachusetts/

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Sadly, I think he's right. I've been telling myself that everything's fine in Mass, but numbers in the Globe make it clear we are back in March/April, and headed in the wrong direction.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/...massachusetts/

We're not back in April, we're wayyyy higher than then.

15% of my students were out today. Got an email an hour ago from a student asking what work she'll need while quarantining these next couple weeks. My reply, "wait—you were in class TODAY."

Five minutes later, I received an email asking to confirm my seating chart for contact tracing. I'm now sitting here wondering a. what I'll need to do for my classes if I need to be out, b. how I deal with things in my family, c. how susceptible I am to Covid complications, d. ad infinitum.

The situation blows all around...and it's only going to get worse in the upcoming weeks.

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

We're not back in April, we're wayyyy higher than then.

15% of my students were out today. Got an email an hour ago from a student asking what work she'll need while quarantining these next couple weeks. My reply, "wait—you were in class TODAY."

Five minutes later, I received an email asking to confirm my seating chart for contact tracing. I'm now sitting here wondering a. what I'll need to do for my classes if I need to be out, b. how I deal with things in my family, c. how susceptible I am to Covid complications, d. ad infinitum.

The situation blows all around...and it's only going to get worse in the upcoming weeks.

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Sorry to read you're on the front lines. My oldest son is a high school teacher in a district with rising numbers. We had dinner a few nights ago, but I think that's going to be it for a while

[Susie Cougar]

Everyone needs to be taking vitamin D supplements every day. This will help build your immune system so you can fight the virus better. Take them with food because they are fat soluble. It’s a simple thing we can all do.
think, I am sorry that you are in this situation. Believe it or not, schools in Baltimore have not opened yet. I’m not sure they ever will now. Everything is just so strange and different now.

[ishoot308]

Gilford schools just shut down today after second covid case...

Dan

[TheRoBoat]

25 cases connected to Calvary church

https://whdh.com/news/nh-health-offi...feboro-church/

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Curious...what’s everyone doing about Thanksgiving? We are invited to our son’s home, which we’re really looking forward to, but there would be 5 of them, 2 of us, our D.I.L’s mother and sister, plus her brother’s family of 3. I am no mathematician but that sounds like 12, with 5 from MA, 2 from NH, 4 from CT, and 1 Floridian. Yikes! I know it’s probably a no brainer, but I don’t want to be the one to cancel. On the other hand, our hosts might be relieved.....they love doing it year after year, but this is different, of course. Sorry for rambling.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Curious...what’s everyone doing about Thanksgiving? We are invited to our son’s home, which we’re really looking forward to, but there would be 5 of them, 2 of us, our D.I.L’s mother and sister, plus her brother’s family of 3. I am no mathematician but that sounds like 12, with 5 from MA, 2 from NH, 4 from CT, and 1 Floridian. Yikes! I know it’s probably a no brainer, but I don’t want to be the one to cancel. On the other hand, our hosts might be relieved.....they love doing it year after year, but this is different, of course. Sorry for rambling.

We were psyched to be hosting our 3 kids and 2 of their SOs. But the kids began to get nervous about each other. I spent a couple of days not wanting to be the one to cancel, then it was sort of forced upon me by a son. We are now having just our daughter, for a grand total of 3. I'm very upset about it.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

We were psyched to be hosting our 3 kids and 2 of their SOs. But the kids began to get nervous about each other. I spent a couple of days not wanting to be the one to cancel, then it was sort of forced upon me by a son. We are now having just our daughter, for a grand total of 3. I'm very upset about it.

I know....that stinks! But...on the other hand, if avoiding this plague can be accomplished by giving up the one day...then it makes perfect sense to do that. Pulling the trigger is hard....having everyone together means a lot to all. Oh my, what to do, what to do.........

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

I know....that stinks! But...on the other hand, if avoiding this plague can be accomplished by giving up the one day...then it makes perfect sense to do that. Pulling the trigger is hard....having everyone together means a lot to all. Oh my, what to do, what to do.........

I read something in the paper yesterday. It said if you gather for Thanksgiving this year, there’s a good chance it will be your last one. Very sobering.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I read something in the paper yesterday. It said if you gather for Thanksgiving this year, there’s a good chance it will be your last one. Very sobering.

That’s just a ridiculous statement and scare tactic! With a 99%+ chance of recovering if you get the virus to say this would be your last Thanksgiving if you gather, is just plain uncalled for...

Dan

[pondguy]

I will be staying home and enjoying a Maria Callender's Turkey pot pie.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Top-Water

Ha Ha

Usually, at Thanksgiving and Christmas while eating a $2.48 Marie Callender turkey pot pie, http://www.mariecallendersmeals.com/...turkey-pot-pie ....... all totally alone, just me and Marie, for the umpteenth year in a row ..... now ..... too many years ...... I just have a good long cry and then go outside, out to the cold outdoors, and go rake some leaves or shovel some snow ...... but no crying for me this year, not this year, not in 2020.

Because, what really matters is waking up every new morning without a newly formed, overnight minor build-up of phlegm in my lungs ..... which is how it starts.

Good morning ....... yes, I'm still alive! ...... and ...... very happy to be here!

Is definitely better to be lonely and miserable than to suffocate to death, as breathing becomes more difficult with each passing day.

Besides, I would so miss my #1 best girl friend, ever-ever-ever ...... that Marie Callender! ...... ...... ho-ho-ho!

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

That’s just a ridiculous statement and scare tactic! With a 99%+ chance of recovering if you get the virus to say this would be your last Thanksgiving if you gather, is just plain uncalled for...

Dan

Yes. I agree. I’ve been seriously thinking about canceling my paper even though it’s one of the things I love to do most to start my day. I haven’t gone anywhere in months and it doesn’t seem like I will ever be able to get back to normal.
It would be nice if someone could give us some encouraging news for a change.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I read something in the paper yesterday. It said if you gather for Thanksgiving this year, there’s a good chance it will be your last one. Very sobering.

I’d love to know which newspaper and the source of this information. To me that is a load of nonsense.

Yes there are more positives but mostly mild and asymptotic cases. Notice the hospitals are not being overcrowded like before and the recovery rate is over 99%. I’m sorry at those numbers no one it going to stop our family from getting together for thanksgiving and Christmas.

As I said they already previously scared us into not celebrating Easter and Palm Sunday this year we will do our best but at the same time live our lives. Life is too short no matter what not to celebrate our family.


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[FlyingScot]

Here's a risk calculator that seems well-grounded. Enter your number of people, pick your spot on the map. Flip a coin on the ascertainment bias. Then decide if the risk is worth it to you.

For us, it was the actual risk plus various individuals' stress levels around risk.

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Here's a risk calculator that seems well-grounded. Enter your number of people, pick your spot on the map. Flip a coin on the ascertainment bias. Then decide if the risk is worth it to you.

For us, it was the actual risk plus various individuals' stress levels around risk.

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

Pick a spot.... Flip a coin... Make a decision....

Fear Mongering at its finest!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Here's a risk calculator that seems well-grounded. Enter your number of people, pick your spot on the map. Flip a coin on the ascertainment bias. Then decide if the risk is worth it to you.

For us, it was the actual risk plus various individuals' stress levels around risk.

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

So is this what it’s come down to?....We take an online risk calculator to determine if we are going spend time with our family?

Sad...VERY sad....and not for me!

Dan

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

So is this what it’s come down to?....We take an online risk calculator to determine if we are going spend time with our family?

Sad...VERY sad....and not for me!

Dan

I agree it's very sad. We did not use it in our deliberations, but I thought it might be helpful to those trying to understand the risk.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Here's a risk calculator that seems well-grounded. Enter your number of people, pick your spot on the map. Flip a coin on the ascertainment bias. Then decide if the risk is worth it to you.

For us, it was the actual risk plus various individuals' stress levels around risk.

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

That’s the bottom line. Forget the chart, it’s about personal comfort level.

We as a family have decided that we are comfortable with assembling for the holidays and that we take as many precautions as possible.

For others if you are not comfortable then don’t do it as you will not enjoy your family if you are apprehensive about being there to begin with.

To each his own.


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Here's a risk calculator that seems well-grounded. Enter your number of people, pick your spot on the map. Flip a coin on the ascertainment bias. Then decide if the risk is worth it to you. For us, it was the actual risk plus various individuals' stress levels around risk. https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

You can party-hearty in Vermont!

[persistence]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I’d love to know which newspaper and the source of this information. To me that is a load of nonsense.

Yes there are more positives but mostly mild and asymptotic cases. Notice the hospitals are not being overcrowded like before and the recovery rate is over 99%. I’m sorry at those numbers no one it going to stop our family from getting together for thanksgiving and Christmas.

As I said they already previously scared us into not celebrating Easter and Palm Sunday this year we will do our best but at the same time live our lives. Life is too short no matter what not to celebrate our family.


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Yes yes YES!

Can we please start to talk about the recovery rates?!? All along the covid tracking has kept neg results and they far outnumbered the pos. I know, anyone I discussed it with said there just too many false positives to rely on that number.

Well come on now, what are we doing?

In MA we are now;

masked in all public places.
Just had 2 weeks rink closures.
Most schools remote ( ours just went remote for 2 weeks but back in class now).
Restaurants closed at 9:30 pm (the final nail for sure).
10pm curfews
Limits to Tday / Xmas

YET! The numbers are skyrocketing...oh, and baker Keeps touting kids need to be in school. Can’t have Your cake and eat it too. I’m sorry...I don’t see how throwing darts at the wall is science.


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[AC2717]

Originally Posted by persistence

Yes yes YES!

Can we please start to talk about the recovery rates?!? All along the covid tracking has kept neg results and they far outnumbered the pos. I know, anyone I discussed it with said there just too many false positives to rely on that number.

Well come on now, what are we doing?

In MA we are now;

masked in all public places.
Just had 2 weeks rink closures.
Most schools remote ( ours just went remote for 2 weeks but back in class now).
Restaurants closed at 9:30 pm (the final nail for sure).
10pm curfews
Limits to Tday / Xmas

YET! The numbers are skyrocketing...oh, and baker Keeps touting kids need to be in school. Can’t have Your cake and eat it too. I’m sorry...I don’t see how throwing darts at the wall is science.


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Not to mention Marty Walsh is now saying the workplace is one of the two main reason for the surge. the workplace?? What workplace? Almost all are closed. Also said social gatherings, well that is broad, again what about the protesting for and then celebration groups over the past two weeks. Oh and by the way they don't want to but they will send the police to your house if 911 is called on you by your neighbors for having more than 10 people. Anyone ever hear of the Intolerable Acts?

If you look at the MA dept of Health Chart (attached), being at home is the most risk of catching it.

When is comes to the hockey shutdown and for some reason they got it out for hockey:
When they shut hockey down in their executive order they said 30 clusters creating 107 cases they shut us down on 10/23 and opened hockey back up 11/7- just in youth and men’s league hockey

The chart from the MA dept of health Shows that between 10/11 and 11/7 (mind you hockey was shut down for two out of those three weeks) that youth organized athletics and camps, that means any and every organized sports activity
14 clusters for 41 cases Prior to 10/11 and 24 clusters for 17 cases (going back to the March shutdown)

So here you go
1 - First off how do you have fewer cases than clusters if a cluster is defined by two or more cases from one spot
2 - Total across all sports is 58 cases going back to start of shutdown and including the shutdown, less than the 107 they said in executive order to shut down hockey
3 - where did they get their numbers to justify the hockey shut down and no other sport
4 - the numbers before the shut down were lower than during the shut down period


I was one that was in favor at the beginning, waiting to see the numbers and science and conditions, now I am in the camp of Enough is enough, people should be able to live their lives and make their own risk decisions. Oh and to those that say its for others not you?
Almost half a million people die from smoking every year and about that 25-30,000 are from second hand smoke, yet smoking is legal and you don't have to wear a mask. Same could be said for Alcohol related deaths, and other communicable viruses/diseases.

[Pricestavern]

Originally Posted by AC2717

The chart from the MA dept of health Shows that between 10/11 and 11/7 (mind you hockey was shut down for two out of those three weeks) that youth organized athletics and camps, that means any and every organized sports activity
14 clusters for 41 cases Prior to 10/11 and 24 clusters for 17 cases (going back to the March shutdown)

So here you go
1 - First off how do you have fewer cases than clusters if a cluster is defined by two or more cases from one spot
2 - Total across all sports is 58 cases going back to start of shutdown and including the shutdown, less than the 107 they said in executive order to shut down hockey
3 - where did they get their numbers to justify the hockey shut down and no other sport
4 - the numbers before the shut down were lower than during the shut down period.

Can't speak to points 2 and 3 but...
1 - Fewer 'Confirmed' cases than clusters. 'Confirmed' being the operative word here.
4 - Increase in cases always lag by about 2 weeks. If they are seeing numbers that prompt a shut down, the numbers during the shutdown will probably by higher than when the shut down was ordered. In fact, the increased numbers is proof that their concern was justified.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Pricestavern

Can't speak to points 2 and 3 but...
1 - Fewer 'Confirmed' cases than clusters. 'Confirmed' being the operative word here.
4 - Increase in cases always lag by about 2 weeks. If they are seeing numbers that prompt a shut down, the numbers during the shutdown will probably by higher than when the shut down was ordered. In fact, the increased numbers is proof that their concern was justified.

concern was justified on 17 confirmed cases (leading up to the shut down) across the whole state for all youth sports? I can't agree with that, and as far as the confirmed cases lag, yes I do agree that is how it works, but why then do they allow people to move around with a Covid negative result in their hand if it could take up to two weeks for it to show. as the rule is quarantine for 2 weeks or show a negative covid test

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by AC2717

Not to mention Marty Walsh is now saying the workplace is one of the two main reason for the surge. the workplace?? What workplace? Almost all are closed. Also said social gatherings, well that is broad, again what about the protesting for and then celebration groups over the past two weeks. Oh and by the way they don't want to but they will send the police to your house if 911 is called on you by your neighbors for having more than 10 people. Anyone ever hear of the Intolerable Acts?

If you look at the MA dept of Health Chart (attached), being at home is the most risk of catching it.

When is comes to the hockey shutdown and for some reason they got it out for hockey:
When they shut hockey down in their executive order they said 30 clusters creating 107 cases they shut us down on 10/23 and opened hockey back up 11/7- just in youth and men’s league hockey

The chart from the MA dept of health Shows that between 10/11 and 11/7 (mind you hockey was shut down for two out of those three weeks) that youth organized athletics and camps, that means any and every organized sports activity
14 clusters for 41 cases Prior to 10/11 and 24 clusters for 17 cases (going back to the March shutdown)

So here you go
1 - First off how do you have fewer cases than clusters if a cluster is defined by two or more cases from one spot
2 - Total across all sports is 58 cases going back to start of shutdown and including the shutdown, less than the 107 they said in executive order to shut down hockey
3 - where did they get their numbers to justify the hockey shut down and no other sport
4 - the numbers before the shut down were lower than during the shut down period


I was one that was in favor at the beginning, waiting to see the numbers and science and conditions, now I am in the camp of Enough is enough, people should be able to live their lives and make their own risk decisions. Oh and to those that say its for others not you?
Almost half a million people die from smoking every year and about that 25-30,000 are from second hand smoke, yet smoking is legal and you don't have to wear a mask. Same could be said for Alcohol related deaths, and other communicable viruses/diseases.

update to the chart from last week:
the numbers before the MA shut down went down???? but those were over a month old and should not have changes oh wait

and the shut down period numbers almost all went down, except for the household clusters which rose.

The State's numbers not mine. I am just a citizens watching and doing my own research on the virus cases and fear. The state shut down hockey due to the case info prior to 10/18. 30 clusters for 107 cases. Now clusters across All Organized Athletics/Camps in the state is 30 clusters for 7, yes 7 cases for that period and the clusters went down from 14 to 12 for the 3 week period and the cases went down from 41 to 31

again the definition of a cluster is more than two cases coming from the same spot.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by persistence

Yes yes YES!

Can we please start to talk about the recovery rates?!? All along the covid tracking has kept neg results and they far outnumbered the pos. I know, anyone I discussed it with said there just too many false positives to rely on that number.

I agree that the recovery rates are good news. But if your primary metric is deaths, then this is sort of irrelevant. We are now at something like 250K in the US, and climbing--a thousand more every day or so

[Garcia]

I work in a school that is open full time. In my community, we had a big spike in cases that were traced back to Halloween parties and some private parties at restaurants/bars. Right now there are about a dozen schools that have gone remote due to cases among students and staff.

The message I sent to my school community here is that everyone needs to be aware that the actions they choose to take over the Thanksgiving break (and anytime, for that matter) can impact others. I am careful and am not too concerned about the virus for me. I also know that if I test positive, my whole school (we are a small school) goes remote, something no one wants. Therefore, I have modified my holiday plans.

We all need to make our own choices, but need to recognize that the choices we make potentially have consequences for others. These will be different for each of us. I don't think we need a "one size fits all" approach and hope that as we weigh our decisions we factor in how what we do could impact others.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I’d love to know which newspaper and the source of this information. To me that is a load of nonsense.

Yes there are more positives but mostly mild and asymptotic cases. Notice the hospitals are not being overcrowded like before and the recovery rate is over 99%. I’m sorry at those numbers no one it going to stop our family from getting together for thanksgiving and Christmas.

As I said they already previously scared us into not celebrating Easter and Palm Sunday this year we will do our best but at the same time live our lives. Life is too short no matter what not to celebrate our family.


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Your statement that hospitals are not being overcrowded is inaccurate. They’re seeing record numbers. There are multiple news articles about this.


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Your statement that hospitals are not being overcrowded is inaccurate. They’re seeing record numbers. There are multiple news articles about this.

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Absolutely, and healthcare workers are getting slammed. One state—North Dakota, I think—was letting Covid positive nurses continue to work because they were so shorthanded.

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[joey2665]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Your statement that hospitals are not being overcrowded is inaccurate. They’re seeing record numbers. There are multiple news articles about this.

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I’m sorry I disagree. There is no we’re near the overcrowding we had seen back in March and April. My information is direct form the many hospital workers that are friends and clients. There seems to be more control and less panic.

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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I’m sorry I disagree. There is no we’re near the overcrowding we had seen back in March and April. My information is direct form the many hospital workers that are friends and clients. There seems to be more control and less panic.

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Perhaps not for those people you know, but nationwide, hospitals are seeing record numbers. As for more control and less panic, I think it’s becoming routine for them, unfortunately.

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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I’m sorry I disagree. There is no we’re near the overcrowding we had seen back in March and April. My information is direct form the many hospital workers that are friends and clients. There seems to be more control and less panic.

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I agree there is more control and less panic, at least here in New England but these health care workers are working 24/7 to keep people alive. The least we can do is help the cause by following the advice of the CDC.
My daughter is an RN, sorry but I will take her advice on this subject over yours.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I agree there is more control and less panic, at least here in New England but these health care workers are working 24/7 to keep people alive. The least we can do is help the cause by following the advice of the CDC.
My daughter is an RN, sorry but I will take her advice on this subject over yours.

I never said not to take any advice or follow any precautions. People should be diligent and taking care of themselves and others but I think it’s important to remember everybody has different levels of diligence I’m comfortable seeing my family With 20 people others might not be but that our choice everybody has to make their own

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Curious...what’s everyone doing about Thanksgiving? We are invited to our son’s home, which we’re really looking forward to, but there would be 5 of them, 2 of us, our D.I.L’s mother and sister, plus her brother’s family of 3. I am no mathematician but that sounds like 12, with 5 from MA, 2 from NH, 4 from CT, and 1 Floridian. Yikes! I know it’s probably a no brainer, but I don’t want to be the one to cancel. On the other hand, our hosts might be relieved.....they love doing it year after year, but this is different, of course. Sorry for rambling.

We have not changed our plans. My mother and father (in their late 70s)host and we will be about 20 immediate family members. We already canceled Easter and Palm Sunday this year and in the end we all feel we do the best we can with precautions and life must go on.

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[AC2717]

Yet zero cases to date linked to any "protest" anywhere across the US

[granitebox]

Originally Posted by AC2717

Yet zero cases to date linked to any "protest" anywhere across the US

What's the source of this statement?

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by granitebox

What's the source of this statement?

Nothing on the CDC Charts and findings with where clusters are coming from. Not even a category

[Nagigator]

Originally Posted by AC2717

Yet zero cases to date linked to any "protest" anywhere across the US

Most participants were wearing masks in those previous protests. And the recent celebrations in the streets were mostly mask wearers. Be interesting to see what happens after last Saturdays protests of mainly unmasked participants.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Nagigator

Most participants were wearing masks in those previous protests. And the recent celebrations in the streets were mostly mask wearers. Be interesting to see what happens after last Saturdays protests of mainly unmasked participants.

Huh? And I have some swampland in Louisiana for sale real cheap.....

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Nagigator

Most participants were wearing masks in those previous protests. And the recent celebrations in the streets were mostly mask wearers. Be interesting to see what happens after last Saturdays protests of mainly unmasked participants.

I’m sorry but there were not many masks worn at the protests I had seen and even when they had them they were pulled down because they were yelling and screaming uncontrollably.


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I’m sorry but there were not many masks worn at the protests I had seen and even when they had them they were pulled down because they were yelling and screaming

Masks have been mandated today, per Governor Sununu.

"The decision didn't come easily"

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by ApS

Masks have been mandated today, per Governor Sununu.

Lets be a little more clear...masks are mandated when social distancing can't be maintained (Edited to add:in outdoor settings)

Dan

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Lets be a little more clear...masks are mandated when social distancing can't be maintained.

Dan

"The mandate applies to all indoor public spaces, in addition to outdoor spaces when social distancing cannot be maintained, according to Sununu."

I read that as all the time while inside public spaces and outside only when not physically distant.

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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

"The mandate applies to all indoor public spaces, in addition to outdoor spaces when social distancing cannot be maintained, according to Sununu."

I read that as all the time while inside public spaces and outside only when not physically distant.

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That is correct and the way I understand it. If your outside riding your bike or hiking through the woods you would not need a mask... If walking through the mall of NH you would!

Dan

[Flylady]

Many people have missed the larger point. Our healthcare systems have a limited capacity. Each hospital room requires a certain amount of trained health professions, which are a limited resource. When a hospital is forced to reallocate its human resources to care for very ill covid patients, that means there are no staff left to take care of other emergencies.
The entire plea to slow the spread is to preserve the healthcare system and not burn out the finite healthcare workers.

For those that are selfish enough to ignore the request to wear a mask, just hope you do not come into ill health such as a heart attack or an accident where you need hospital care and you arrive to find they are full and not taking anyone!

[Mr. V]

For those that are selfish enough to ignore the request to wear a mask, just hope you do not come into ill health such as a heart attack or an accident where you need hospital care and you arrive to find they are full and not taking anyone!

Better yet, those who refuse to wear a mask, maintain social distancing and wash / sanitize their hands should "cowboy up" and NOT seek medical care if they contract covid-19.

In for a penny, in for a pound, right?

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by Flylady

Many people have missed the larger point. Our healthcare systems have a limited capacity. Each hospital room requires a certain amount of trained health professions, which are a limited resource. When a hospital is forced to reallocate its human resources to care for very ill covid patients, that means there are no staff left to take care of other emergencies.
The entire plea to slow the spread is to preserve the healthcare system and not burn out the finite healthcare workers.

For those that are selfish enough to ignore the request to wear a mask, just hope you do not come into ill health such as a heart attack or an accident where you need hospital care and you arrive to find they are full and not taking anyone!

With 3 health care professionals in the family, this point nails the issue. All three are at or approaching burnout, being called in for extra shifts all the time, and getting pretty depressed because there is no end in sight and it's getting worse.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

That is correct and the way I understand it. If your outside riding your bike or hiking through the woods you would not need a mask... If walking through the mall of NH you would!

Dan

Is there someplace one can read the official verbatim mandate? To me it is still ambiguous depending on commas, etc. I have looked at several news sources and can only find the news source’s interpretation. According to some reports if there is social distancing inside you would not need a mask.

I would assume the “real” mandate is written down somewhere.

Thanks in advance.

[winni83]

Here you go.

nov_20_2020_sununu_emergency_order_74.pdf

[retired]

I found out today about someone I know who visited her mother in Rhode Island recently, quarantined when she came back to NH, showed symptoms and tested positive. Just goes to show that someone dear to you can give it to you just as easily as a stranger. Gravy boat is right. We need to be smart about this and beat it. If we don’t learn from the past we are bound to repeat our mistakes.

[Outdoorsman]

Your title is misleading and only meant to be!

Shame on you!

[thinkxingu]

Let's not forget those 250k deaths are AFTER all we've done to curb the spread of the virus.

Honestly, now that my students' tests are coming back positive and my tire shop just called to let me know the salesman I worked with last week tested positive, I'm starting to feel like the walls are closing in a bit.

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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Let's not forget those 250k deaths are AFTER all we've done to curb the spread of the virus.

Honestly, now that my students' tests are coming back positive and my tire shop just called to let me know the salesman I worked with last week tested positive, I'm starting to feel like the walls are closing in a bit.

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Obviously, we haven’t done enough.

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[Mr. V]

Obviously, we haven’t done enough.

Maybe Americans will finally "wake up" and respond meaningfully when / if the ICU units in our nation's hospitals fill up to overflowing and can accept no more covid-19 patients.

Images broadcatst on TV in the near future of direly ill patients being denied medical care because the hospitals are overwhelmed will not instill holiday cheer if what I fear may soon happen does indeed come to pass.

It's clear by now that this is not "just a flu:" over a quarter million dead Americans and still counting.

We were once a group of people able to work together for a common purpose, e.g. defeating the Axis in WWII; what happened to us?

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Let's not forget those 250k deaths are AFTER all we've done to curb the spread of the virus.

Honestly, now that my students' tests are coming back positive and my tire shop just called to let me know the salesman I worked with last week tested positive, I'm starting to feel like the walls are closing in a bit.

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I do see that the CDC website indicates 249,670 deaths attributed to COVID in the US to date. I also see 11,465,722 total cases in the US to date. And there are 328.2 million people currently living in the US. Which means only 0.07% of the US population will die from COVID.

It's been almost 9 months and most of us have been behaving and doing as we have been directed to do by our government and "experts". And yet here is another surge. And although this surge was expected my guess is the same demographic is being impacted again -- the elderly and those with underlying health issues. So why not insist they stay inside and be protected? The elderly (and some obviously unhealthy people) are still out shopping at Hannaford, WalMart, Lowe's, etc. so they are putting themselves at risk by being out there among potential carriers.

Sorry, but we haven't insisted those at risk stay at home -- and to me that seems to be the best way to protect them.

GB

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

I do see that the CDC website indicates 249,670 deaths attributed to COVID in the US to date. I also see 11,465,722 total cases in the US to date. And there are 328.2 million people currently living in the US. Which means only 0.07% of the US population will die from COVID.

This is a bizarre and disgusting use of math, and has nothing to do with the local nature of this thread.

250K is like 5X the number of Americans killed in Vietnam, or 60X the number killed on 9/11. But maybe you shrug at these too?

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

This is a bizarre and disgusting use of math, and has nothing to do with the local nature of this thread.

250K is like 5X the number of Americans killed in Vietnam, or 60X the number killed on 9/11. But maybe you shrug at these too?

Is my math wrong?

The point is that so few will die from this disease (see the numbers) and yet we are not doing enough to protect the most vulnerable. We slap on a mask and call it good. Those individuals need to be better protected.

Now, because you are a total stranger and have zero affect on my life in any way I will not start a pointless back and forth with you.

GB

[TCC]

Putting this virus into perspective can be helpful. First, gravy boats math is correct but his contention that "only" 250,000 will die needs to be rephrased have died. The projections I'm seeing indicate that by the end of February when the epidemic had been with us for a full year that number is likely to be over 400,000.

By way of comparison, annual US deaths run around: drinking and driving (10,000), opioid abuse (70,000), influenza (10 yr avg around 38,000), and smoking-related (480,000).

I am honestly interested in gravy boat's suggestion the the most vulnerable should be better protected. Thoughts on how that might be done, gravy boat?

[NH4me]

I am a senior citizen on the younger end of the Covid danger range but do have one of the comorbidities. I would like to push back on the notion that I should just stay home and protect myself. I do need groceries and am perfectly capable of getting out to shop and would like to save the options of costly delivery or burdening neighbors to get them for a time when I could be sick. Do I quit going out for regular doctor, dentist or dermatologist appointments and regular tests that now are hopefully keeping me healthy? I am willing to forego seeing grandchildren and friends in person - Zoom and Facetime will suffice for now. I do wear a mask, social distance and carry hand sanitizer to use, maybe obsessively, so I feel as if I am doing everything I can to still fulfill my needs and be safe. What I need is for YOU to do your part and do the same. I think most realize the necessity and are doing a good job, but it is very disheartening to read of those who have decided to take their chances and don't feel any any responsibility for protecting someone like me. I can't do it alone!

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by NH4me

I am a senior citizen on the younger end of the Covid danger range but do have one of the comorbidities. I would like to push back on the notion that I should just stay home and protect myself. I do need groceries and am perfectly capable of getting out to shop and would like to save the options of costly delivery or burdening neighbors to get them for a time when I could be sick. Do I quit going out for regular doctor, dentist or dermatologist appointments and regular tests that now are hopefully keeping me healthy? I am willing to forego seeing grandchildren and friends in person - Zoom and Facetime will suffice for now. I do wear a mask, social distance and carry hand sanitizer to use, maybe obsessively, so I feel as if I am doing everything I can to still fulfill my needs and be safe. What I need is for YOU to do your part and do the same. I think most realize the necessity and are doing a good job, but it is very disheartening to read of those who have decided to take their chances and don't feel any any responsibility for protecting someone like me. I can't do it alone!

Spot on, and I wish you the best health.

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

Is my math wrong?

The point is that so few will die from this disease (see the numbers) and yet we are not doing enough to protect the most vulnerable. We slap on a mask and call it good. Those individuals need to be better protected.

GB

Your math is correct, it's your insensitivity to preventable death that is vile.

Your either/or thing is also a distraction--one used repeatedly by politicians who have failed to take this seriously enough. Of course we should protect the vulnerable, AND we should all be wearing masks, AND social distancing in general.

[Mr. V]

It is impossible to fully insulate people from the possibility of contracting Covid-19: unless you live in a cave, grow all your own food, make your own clothes and never come in contact with people you are a target.

Consider for example the plight of our most vulnerable population: those in care facilities due to poor health / advanced age.

They require that others care for them, and it is the caregivers that typically are the weak link as they do not live in a protected environment: many of these workers are fairly uneducated low paid folk living in "the real world."

While a doctor or nurse may have the empathy and fortitude to follow safety procedures when not at work (mask, social distancing, hand cleanliness) that is seemingly not the case for the entry level care givers who work in nursing homes and in home care facilities.

My buddy is an in home care giver, and he describes a revolving door of new entry level employees, and how clueless and lacking in discipline some of them are: it just takes one gaff for a care giver to get infected and then infect the entire facility.

No, to beat this thing we must all work together, difficult though it may be, or in the alternative collectively say "to hell with it, WGAS if they die?" and let the chips fall where they may.

Me, I vote for door number one.

[Biggd]

What many people are not recognizing through all this is the nurses and doctors that are putting their lives on hold to help all these people who are infected with this desease, many of whom have disregarded all the precautions to slow the spread. It's really not fair to them to disregard the science and do what ever you want to do because you are willing to take the risk. They can't make that choice, they are at risk 24/7 because their job is to help people no matter the risk.

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[thinkxingu]

Oof.

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[persistence]

Looks same as MA but MA says ‘even where they are able to maintain 6’ of distance from others ‘.

We don’t have to use them when swimming however, if you can find an open pool


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[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by persistence

We don’t have to see them when swimming however, if you can find an open pool

www.wmacwv.com is definitely open with its huge 82-84 degree swim and lap pool, and two 104-degree indoor hot tubs, at pool side so's going from pool, and back to hot tub to pool, again, and then to restaurant and bar www.wildcoyotegrill.com upstairs is totally doable ..... and is hot-hot-hot! ...... all the long cold, cold, cold winter ...... long ....

And ..... don't forget ....... as Smokey Bear would say, if he were allowed by the government to say this ...... Only You Can Come to Waterville Valley! ...... so's you got to settle for hearing it said by Bruce the Moose! ...... Only You Can Come to Waterville Valley! ...... sayeth ..... Bruce the Moose!

Bruce the Moose also says "35-miles is the driving distance from the big intersection in Meredith via Rt-175, Holderness ..... hut-hut-hut .... (natural moose sounds)"

In addition ..... Bruce the Moose also says the corona virus totally hates all that bromine treated swim pool water ...... yuuuchy-pooh ...... sayeth the corona virus to that humid swim pool/bromine pool and pool room.

The corona virus thrives at the nearby indoor ice arena www.wvicearena.com with its cold dry air enclosed by the hockey boards and plexi-glass surround, but not at the warm and humid swim pool filled with bromine treated water ...... you got that ...... understand!

[Lakegeezer]

It comes down to risk. Using the Georgia Tech risk model, plugging in either Carroll or NH numbers, there is a 1% chance that someone that you spend time with will be contagious. If reported numbers are low (likely), say 10X low, then there is a 10% chance that someone that you meet is contagious. Using statistical methods, a party of five has a 2% chance that one person will be infectious (20% if 10X underreported). In some states, the risk is much higher.

The new state guidelines seem reasonable to me. Several weeks after the holidays, as winter hibernation sets in, the spreading rate should settle down.

[persistence]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

www.wmacwv.com is definitely open with a huge 82-84 degree swim and lap pool, and two 104-degree indoor hot tubs, at pool side so's going from pool, and back to hot tub to pool, again, and then to restaurant and bar www.wildcoyotegrill.com upstairs is totally doable ..... and is hot-hot-hot! ...... all the long cold, cold, cold winter ...... long ....

And ..... don't forget ....... as Smokey Bear would say, if he were allowed to say this ...... Only You Can Come to Waterville Valley! ...... so's you got to settle for hearing it said by Bruce the Moose! ...... Only You Can Come to Waterville Valley! ...... sayeth ..... Bruce the Moose!

Bruce the Moose also says "35-miles is the driving distance from the big intersection in Meredith via Rt-175, Holderness ..... hut-hut-hut .... (natural moose sounds)"

In addition ..... Bruce the Moose also says the corona virus totally hates all that bromine treated swim pool water ...... yuuuchy-pooh ...... sayeth the corona virus to that humid swim pool/bromine pool and pool room.

The corona virus lives at the indoor ice arena, but not at the swim pool ...... understand!

I swam competitively for many years. In my double practice days, My hair would tell you chlorine kills all!

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[Mr. V]

Helpful, inexpensive hint: for hand sanitizing, I use a small plastic bottle with a pop off lid that I fill with 70% isopropyl alcohol.

Cheap and effective.

Like Brylcream, "A little dab'll do ya."

[erick26]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

The elderly (and some obviously unhealthy people) are still out shopping at Hannaford, WalMart, Lowe's, etc. so they are putting themselves at risk by being out there among potential carriers.

Sorry, but we haven't insisted those at risk stay at home -- and to me that seems to be the best way to protect them.

GB

Thinking about the statement above - if you know you are at risk you should just be staying home anyway (like many of the elderly I know). Shouldn’t need a mandate to tell them that - all in all we can all be as careful as we can, but those at higher risk really should just be protecting themselves more and allow other aspects of life to just carry on


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[Sue Doe-Nym]

Massachusetts doesn’t want people from Maine or NH unless they have had a negative COVID test within 3 days or they have to quarantine for 14 days. I have been informed that this means the travelers would have to stay in quarantine in MA for 14 days. This cannot be right. How could this be enforced? Can one of you brilliant forum members give their interpretation of this?

[tis]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Massachusetts doesn’t want people from Maine or NH unless they have had a negative COVID test within 3 days or they have to quarantine for 14 days. I have been informed that this means the travelers would have to stay in quarantine in MA for 14 days. This cannot be right. How could this be enforced? Can one of you brilliant forum members give their interpretation of this?

I don't think it's enforceable. People from Mass., NY and all the other high risk state people coming to the lake were supposed to quarantine in the spring for two weeks but many came for the weekend and obviously didn't.

[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Massachusetts doesn’t want people from Maine or NH unless they have had a negative COVID test within 3 days or they have to quarantine for 14 days. I have been informed that this means the travelers would have to stay in quarantine in MA for 14 days. This cannot be right. How could this be enforced? Can one of you brilliant forum members give their interpretation of this?

If there was something you needed, say your vehicle, and it didn't work, you'd take it upon yourself to get it fixed- no enforceable mandate required.

If following virus protocols make sense to you, no enforceable mandate required.
If they don't make sense to you, well...

Just another take on the divisions that separate the factions of people who do/don't do what it will take to calm all this down.

Seems to me history will view this time as an era of people who, through lack of unity, decimated their own society.

[persistence]

I think they can do whatever they want to do if they want. This is part of my concern.

Ex. They could easily check the ez pass and send fines out.

I’ve heard key west has a $500 fine for not wearing a mask. Not sure if it’s true.


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[gillygirl]

To start a different vein, my brother who lives in the Lakes Region is the only close contact for assisting my 92-year-old mother in MA. My sister and I are both in FL. He travels every other weekend to assist her, delivering essential groceries to her. What happens if he’s stopped on the way to deliver her groceries? At this point, with the infection rates in most states, does it really make a difference? I will move back to MA to take care of her, but with rates high in 48 states, does it really matter?


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[Biggd]

It's unfortunate but the only thing you can do is control your own actions. I'm just as tired of staying home as everyone else but I don't want to get sick right now, not with just covid but I don't want to get anything right now. So I will limit my exposure to others as much as possible because that's all I can control and hope others do the same.
We still go out but we try to avoid crowds when ever possible. I've left places if I feel they are too crowded and go back at another time.
I would rather spend as much time at home rather than any time in the hospital.


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[Mr. V]

It's unfortunate but the only thing you can do is control your own actions.

Indeed.

While wearing a mask, maintaining social distancing and washing / sanitizing your hands is mildly annoying, none of these actions cut as deeply into our human psyche as does avoiding close contact in our homes or elsewhere with friends and loved ones.

People are by nature social creatures, and being told / forced to not get close to anyone other than members of your immediate household can cause great distress, anxiety and resentment.

Consider this coming Thanksgiving: those who invite friends or family over for dinner, drinks and companionship could be inviting Covid-19 into their homes as well, or if they are asymptomatic carriers they could infect their guests.

While I'd rather not live in fear it is of first priority to me that I continue to live.

[thinkxingu]

Fortunately, my test was negative, but it's been kinda crazy these last couple of days with all the new positives in my school and community.

I'm hoping we see a decline in cases soon after the holidays—the summer and early fall were (mostly) tolerable, but November has been stressful.

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[WinnisquamZ]

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[Sue Doe-Nym]

LOL.....I think maybe she left her trousers in the dryer too long! What a sight! 😂

[Biggd]

That would make me leave lunch right there on the floor!

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Attachment 16599


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[Hillcountry]

Is that Marie Callendar advertising her X-mas chocolate pies???

[WinnisquamZ]

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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Attachment 16600


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I remember those drills and the weekly air raid siren tests! Used to scare the hell out of everyone!

Dan

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I remember those drills and the weekly air raid siren tests! Used to scare the hell out of everyone!

Dan

How about the fallout shelters in people’s back yards? Blackout curtains?

[Mr. V]

You people slay me: figuratively and literally.

Minimizing gov't warnings in the face of a pandemic: hello, dunce cap.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

How about the fallout shelters in people’s back yards? Blackout curtains?

Yup....and the fallout shelter signs on almost every large brick building and school basement... scary times for sure!

Dan

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Yup....and the fallout shelter signs on almost every large brick building and school basement... scary times for sure!

Dan

And so....when we mention to members of the younger generations how things were, and how so many have sacrificed over the years, we are apt to receive an eye roll or shrug for the effort. The history that you and I are talking about is not that ancient.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Attachment 16600


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Funnier would be to rewind a few months for you posting or thanking others with predictions that this will blow over by Easter

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Attachment 16600


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The Nikita Kruschchev era...”we will bury your children”

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

The Nikita Kruschchev era...”we will bury your children”

No, what he said is " ...... We will bury you!" without saying anything about "your children."

To get more context and history ...... google "We will bury you!"-Wikipedia ...... and it has a good, one page history on it and shows the full paragraph quote that ends with ..... We will bury you!

That quote got tons of tv-time on the three tv-news networks during the October-1962 Cuban missile crisis. Nikita Khrushchev said it on Sunday, November 18, 1956 in Moscow at the Polish Embassy after signing a Moscow-Warsaw joint declaration.

Addressing the Western Bloc at the Polish Embassy in Moscow, Khrushchev said to them: "About the capitalist states, it doesn't depend on you whether or not we exist. If you don't like us, don't accept our invitations, and don't invite us to come see you. Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!" .... spoken in Russian and translated to English by Khrushchev's translator

The speech prompted the envoys from the twelve NATO nations: Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, the United Kingdom, and the United States, plus non-NATO member, Israel, to all get up and leave the room.

Later on, at the National Press Club, Washington D.C., September 16, 1959 in response to a question, Khrushchev explained: "The expression I used was distorted, and on purpose, because what was meant was not the physical burial of any people but the historical force of development. It is well known that at the present time no one social or economic system is dominant throughout the world, but that there are different systems, social systems in different countries. And those systems change. ...... "

www.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you ...... and maybe click on the 'shoe-banging incident' at bottom of page, as well.

Growing up, I heard and saw the inter-program tv short with Nikita Khrushchev pounding out that "We will bury you!" line probably hundreds of times and now in 2020, I sometimes will shout that to the two opponents on the other side of the net, at the start of a pickleball game ........ We will bury you! ..... ha-ha-ha. .... ..... As a 10-11 year old we would point our finger at another kid and shout "We will bury you!" with a deep threatening voice while playing different sports like volley ball, or softball, at school or at summer camp .... ..... ha-ha-ha

[Hillcountry]

I recall him (in person on TV) saying “your children” screw wiki-pedo and screw google while you’re at it.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

I recall him (in person on TV) saying “your children” screw wiki-pedo and screw google while you’re at it.

Interesting that you trust your memory of over 60 years ago more than the hundreds of independently written documents of that speech.

Also interesting is that the translation is the subject of debate--not on "you" vs "your children", but on the specific threat against "you". Here's a great article that describes the controversy. https://medium.com/exploring-history...3-4a285162e2b9

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Interesting that you trust your memory of over 60 years ago more than the hundreds of independently written documents of that speech.

Also interesting is that the translation is the subject of debate--not on "you" vs "your children", but on the specific threat against "you". Here's a great article that describes the controversy. https://medium.com/exploring-history...3-4a285162e2b9

I don't know why I have such a vivid memory of the "I will bury your children"
version, but I do...whatever... I'm sticking with my version

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

I don't know why I have such a vivid memory of the "I will bury your children"
version, but I do...whatever... I'm sticking with my version

I was 100% sure I saw the “greatest football game ever played” when I was in California visiting friends. I remember the room, my friends, the small black and white TV as well as Ameche into the end zone for the Colts win. I told this story many times over the years. This year, while discussing this again, I realized it was impossible for me to have been in CA in 1958 when the game was played.

I was really stunned about this memory lapse.

Despite my “superb memory” I realized that facts do matter. No matter how much we may wish otherwise.

[Pricestavern]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

I recall him (in person on TV) saying “your children” screw wiki-pedo and screw google while you’re at it.

How about from the CIA Library, then?
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingr...00040087-1.pdf

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Pricestavern

How about from the CIA Library, then?
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingr...00040087-1.pdf

Lol...I love you guys wasting your time trying to make me agree with you when in fact, I could give a ****** what you say...sheesh.