Litter on the lakes

[Outdoorsman]

In this article of the LDS it is stated that volunteers went out onto the ice of Meredith Bay to collect trash that was left behind by ice fishermen. It is also stated that the volunteers used an ice chipper to dig the items from the ice.

To me, this is at the very least equally as dangerous considering the condition of the ice at the time. First responders, F&G, etc. were put in jeopardy due to the efforts of these "good Samaritans".


http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...ith-two-photos

[thinkxingu]

Hard to get upset with people cleaning up after others.

Still think there needs to be major fines for littering this way.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

[ursa minor]

I'm going with either that was posted tongue in cheek or that you didn't completely read the LDS article.

I'm not seeing how removing 3 truckloads of debris from the ice that included a couch, fire pits, etc. endangered anyone. Kudos to the volunteers, shame on anyone leaving that stuff behind on the ice.

[Doobs41378]

Not upset....If they did not clean it up it would have melted into the lake. Total scumbags that left all that stuff IMO.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Hard to get upset with people cleaning up after others.

Still think there needs to be major fines for littering this way.

I agree that being upset with others cleaning the mess left behind by (anyone) does not deserve outrage, however; First responders would have come to the rescue of these "good Samaritans". IMHO, the story is the same, the people are the difference

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Hard to get upset with people cleaning up after others.

Still think there needs to be major fines for littering this way.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

I agree. My question was about the outrage shown RE: the channel skimmers VS others

[Acrossamerica]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

I agree. My question was about the outrage shown RE: the channel skimmers VS others

Maybe the difference in outrage or none is because the skimmers were idiots while the ice cleaners were the good guys. Just saying.

[MAXUM]

Perception is an interesting thing - reality is another.... any one being on unsafe ice for any reason whether doing something crazy or noble is no different. It's dumb.

While I applaud the efforts of those that want to keep the lake clean and free of trash I will be no more impressed if anyone dies doing it. They are equally deserving a Darwin Award.

[boat_guy64]

The real problem is that the fishermen are pigs. Every year, they leave a huge mess on the ice in Meredith. There was still a lot of crap out there as of Saturday. Pond hockey cleans up and the place is spotless when they leave. Fishermen leave a huge mess. I also am a fisherman, I usually leave the ice with more trash than I arrived with. I get very disappointed each year as the shacks leave and the trash remains.

[tis]

Originally Posted by boat_guy64

The real problem is that the fishermen are pigs. Every year, they leave a huge mess on the ice in Meredith. There was still a lot of crap out there as of Saturday. Pond hockey cleans up and the place is spotless when they leave. Fishermen leave a huge mess. I also am a fisherman, I usually leave the ice with more trash than I arrived with. I get very disappointed each year as the shacks leave and the trash remains.

It IS too bad, that some won't take back what they bring out. What do they think happens to the beer bottles and cans and trash that they leave? They sink and break and eventually find their way to shallow water. When we were kids someone was always cutting their feet on them.

[Ms Molly McKever]

Originally Posted by tis

It IS too bad, that some won't take back what they bring out. What do they think happens to the beer bottles and cans and trash that they leave? They sink and break and eventually find their way to shallow water. When we were kids someone was always cutting their feet on them.

A Derby official on Thursday said "That is a lot of personal debris that is left there, It has nothing to do with the derby". ??????????????? Derby officials have to take ownership of this problem. If not END THE DERBY.

[Lakeboater]

Originally Posted by Ms Molly McKever

A Derby official on Thursday said "That is a lot of personal debris that is left there, It has nothing to do with the derby". ??????????????? Derby officials have to take ownership of this problem. If not END THE DERBY.

The pond hockey tournament was held Feb 3-5. I would think that some of the trash came from that weekend as well.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Ms Molly McKever

A Derby official on Thursday said "That is a lot of personal debris that is left there, It has nothing to do with the derby". ??????????????? Derby officials have to take ownership of this problem. If not END THE DERBY.

That is not the right answer to give, that Derby "official" is a meathead for saying that.

The Derby may attract some additional people to the area for one weekend but for the folks that setup there for the season (where most of this debris is from) they aren't there because of the derby - heck I'd be surprised if most of them didn't even participate in it.

[Ms Molly McKever]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

That is not the right answer to give, that Derby "official" is a meathead for saying that.

The Derby may attract some additional people to the area for one weekend but for the folks that setup there for the season (where most of this debris is from) they aren't there because of the derby - heck I'd be surprised if most of them didn't even participate in it.

Ice in the bay was clean before the derby, Was not after the derby, Did not call anyone a meathead. That is your word maxun, was not in my post.

[kauriel]

Skimming is illegal in NH. Did the cleanup break any laws?

[robmac]

It seems to happen year after year and the town the state nor epa have made any headway to put in place ways to control the trash problem. I wish derby officials see to it the ice and lake were in the condition prior to the event. Aren't permits issued?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Ms Molly McKever

Ice in the bay was clean before the derby, Was not after the derby, Did not call anyone a meathead. That is your word maxun, was not in my post.

I called the derby "official" a meathead because providing an indifferent answer to the trash problem IE "it's not our fault" is in no way helpful. Sorry was not inferring you said that. I did!

At the same time... the ice was clean until everyone cleared off - that isn't a reflection of the derby being held or not. It's a reflection of the carelessness of those that had bob houses out there and left behind a bunch of crap, and for that there is absolutely no excuse.

[boat_guy64]

Originally Posted by Lakeboater

The pond hockey tournament was held Feb 3-5. I would think that some of the trash came from that weekend as well.

Pond hockey crew LITERALLY sweeps the ice with their tractors when the boards are taken down. It is spotless when they leave.

[camp guy]

Hold it!! This thread is insane. There is no question that after the Derby there is litter all over the place. This has been the case in the past, obviously again this year, and, unless there is a major change, will be the case next year.

Some how this condition got tossed in with people being on the ice picking up litter, and, sadly, considering the events of a few weeks ago, the topic lost its focus and became all about who was stupid or who was not stupid. As we all found out rather trajically, being on the ice may not a good idea, but this doesn't make those trying to clean up "stupid".

Lighten up, people, life is too short for all these 'hair triggers'.

[bruinsfan]

Originally Posted by Lakeboater

The pond hockey tournament was held Feb 3-5. I would think that some of the trash came from that weekend as well.

You are wrong. Pond Hockey left the ice immaculate. I was there.

Sorry, but blanket accusations are childish.

[Lakeboater]

Originally Posted by bruinsfan

You are wrong. Pond Hockey left the ice immaculate. I was there.

Sorry, but blacked accusations are childish.

Not really sure what "blacked accusations" are but me thinking something is hardly accusing anyone.
As side note during the pond hockey tournament I was told by someone in a group that they were just going to leave their metal fire pit on the ice when they left. Whether they did or not I have no idea but there was no sense in discussing it with the individual.
BTW, I am a supporter of both the pond hockey classic and Rotary ice fishing derby.

[Rinkerguy]

I think we are getting away from the point of the thread.

When the Ice Fisherman leave the lake, some don't take their trash with them.
There should be a process put in place to monitor them leaving the lake to ensure the location their bob house was located is cleaned up.

Sounds like a great job for Marine Patrol, Conservaton Officers, Volunteers.
The reward is a cleaner lake.
The penalty for not cleaning up after yourself should be a fine, loss of fishing privileges, etc.

I would even be an advocate for a Bobhouse fee, for placing a house on a NH lake. Even if it were only $5, that would add up to a significant fund to pay for monitoring and cleanup.

[Descant]

Start rant:
Thanks to the volunteers where this thread started. NH runs with volunteers, whether it be Rotary, Lions, Selectmen, Planning Board, or the Parks and Rec committee. You name it. If you aren't some sort of volunteer, you don't deserve to be posting that "They ought to pass a rule" or "There should be a fee." "Live Free or Die" also means "accept personal responsibility." Most fishermen, hikers do this on our lakes, in our woods, as do snowmobilers and many many others. How do you know that bob house folks leave trash? You don't! So don't accuse. My guess is, bob house fishermen also fish in the summer and have a great respect for the lakes.
So, if you want to praise volunteers for clean up or anything else, go for it. If you aren't a volunteer, and you just want to whine, find another forum.

Here endeth the rant.

[Not to Worry]

I read with interest the rant about who left debris on the ice. I finally decided to go back and read the article that was posted along with the first posting. Correct me if I am wrong but it was the volunteers in the article that took the position that the debris was left by folks fishing at the Derby.

Seems to logically follow if there was no garbage on the ice before the Derby but there was post Derby the garbage came from the fisherman and vendors. I can speak from personal experience that too many people who attend the Derby do leave trash on the lake. One simply need take a ride the Monday following the Derby to see this. Assuming the ice is safe.

I disagree with the assumption that the ice in the bay was too unsafe for the volunteers to go out and clean up the mess nor did I follow the comparison to their efforts to those who skimmed across open water. Seems one does not have anything to do with the other.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

I disagree with the assumption that the ice in the bay was too unsafe for the volunteers to go out and clean up the mess nor did I follow the comparison to their efforts to those who skimmed across open water. Seems one does not have anything to do with the other.

Sorry for the confusion. My point was that people were outraged by the skimmers doing something was not safe, yet have no issue with good Samaritans doing something that is equally unsafe IMHO.

That was my original point.

Since this thread has made a turn in a very good direction, I would like to point out that there was another article posted in the LDS that has more info.

Bergquist said the Meredith Rotary Club does its part to deal with lake litter, hosting a biannual cleanup in the spring.
"We do a biannual cleanup of the whole bay. Basically, we gather up 30 or more people in boats and skim through the lake. We do scuba diving, picking up debris," Bergquist said.
"We try to do as much as we can if not more. We're really there for the community in trying to give back to the community," Bergquist said. "We have a regular time that we go through and do a Meredith Bay Clean-up. It's amazing how much debris we can pull out of there."
The group conducted its most recent cleanup last spring.
Now is not the time to try to remove lingering litter, Bergquist cautioned. He urged the public, even those concerned about remaining debris, to stay off the ice. It's not safe to venture out this late in the season.

Kudos to Meredith Rotary Club

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...rds-with-photo

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Kudos to Meredith Rotary Club

That's terrific that the Rotary Club cleans in the spring.

But your post kinda misses the big point about the Ice Derby. If the fishermen want to have a big derby, they need to clean up after themselves. Surely the ice was safe as they were leaving--they should have made sure there was no litter at that point. If they can't do that simple policing of themselves, they shouldn't be allowed to sponsor the event.

[jeffk]

If the Pond Hockey folks can organize a cleanup at the end of the event, maybe the the Derby should as well, either through Derby participants volunteering to do it or through a Clean-up fee as part of the registration that hires someone to do it?

[GTO]

Originally Posted by jeffk

If the Pond Hockey folks can organize a cleanup at the end of the event, maybe the the Derby should as well, either through Derby participants volunteering to do it or through a Clean-up fee as part of the registration that hires someone to do it?

There are plenty of ice huts on the lake a month before the derby and plenty on the ice a month or so after the derby. I'm sure most people take the their trash off with them but how do you control the rest. I'm betting they don't boat on the lake because if they were, they wouldn't leave the full pallets out there that I have to look at every morning on my way to work.

[donnamatrix]

I am part of the Rotary. We are all volunteers who work our tails off for a year to make the Derby a success. All revenues from the Derby, or any Rotary function, go right into the communities we serve: Rotary does not financially benefit in any way. That said, Pond Hockey pays a group of people to clean up the detritus from the lake after their event. Nice if you have the money to do that. The ice fishermen leave a mess, it cannot be disputed. It is disgusting and disrespectful to say the least. It is also illegal, just like skimming.
NH Fish&Game Law Enforcement tries, and has had success in the past, to locate and fine those responsible. Our president Ray Moritz, recently posted to this message regarding the trash on the lake:

The Meredith Rotary Club is well aware of the amount of debris left on Meredith Bay following the Fishing Derby. Members of our club, as well as community members, are very concerned about the lake and its ecology.
The Rotary Club has received some inflammatory comments accusing us of "only caring about making money," which is neither fair or accurate.
All proceeds from the Derby go to support charitable needs in the Lakes Region: we do not keep a penny of it. To the contrary, our Rotary volunteers contribute both time and money in this effort to support the communities we serve. To say we only care about the money is both unfair to our Rotary volunteers and inaccurate.
Secondly, we care about the Bay, its cleanliness and ecology, and we, like others, are upset with the mess that was left behind. We post signs, our brochure stresses that littering on the lake is illegal, we provide trash barrels, and a dumpster. We also conduct a Bay cleanup in the spring; once again, all volunteer efforts.
And now, due to the trash that was left behind we have added to our agenda on the “Lessoned Learned” wrap-up meeting soon to be held, the formation of a post derby Ice cleanup committee, once more asking our Rotary volunteers give of themselves in service to the community.
We are also enlisting the help of the NH Fish and Game Law Enforcement officers to help prevent illegal littering.
As the Rotary is an all volunteer effort, and it takes many hours prior to the event to ensure success, we welcome the help of everyone in the community post-Derby to ensure the Bay is left in a pristine condition.
Ray Moritz, President, Meredith Rotary

[ishoot308]

Thanks for posting that Donnamatrix! The only part I will disagree with is its not only the fishermen, the vendors also leave a mess, not all but some as I have personally seen and picked up a lot of their debris after the derby.

Thanks for reminding us how the rotary supports the community!

Dan

[SIKSUKR]

How about this. Any bobhouse on NH lakes must have an ID number on it both front and top. Easy enough to use a drone and fly around over the event and see who's house was where. Go get em.

[robmac]

I agree they should have an ID# and be checked periodically

[jeffk]

I applaud the Rotary for its actions. It appears they were already taking strong action to encourage people to clean up. Unfortunately there are those who refuse to clean up after themselves. Given this reality, the Rotary is stepping up it's game to deal with the problem. THANK YOU for all you do for this event and stepping up to deal with a problem in a forthright manner.

Others in this thread say you can't get it all because people are still there after the event. While true, it doesn't preclude taking steps, like the Rotary has, to do as much as you can.

Maybe Fish & Game needs to visit Bob Houses as the season winds down, take pictures of potential problems and post notices on the houses with obvious trash piles.

[Ms Molly McKever]

Originally Posted by robmac

I agree they should have an ID# and be checked periodically

This has become a blame game, A plan has to be in place for next year. I hate to think what's at the bottom of the bay. Has anyone looked ? Cleaning in spring is great, But the ice has to be cleaned before the junk sinks

[Onshore]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

How about this. Any bobhouse on NH lakes must have an ID number on it both front and top. Easy enough to use a drone and fly around over the event and see who's house was where. Go get em.

Are you suggesting that a state agency purchase a drone to do low-level aerial surveillance for enforcement purposes? You did say this in jest, right?

[Taz]

Are you saying no ID is required on the bobhouses? My wife has told me when growing up on Champlain in NY you were required to label your (they called them shantys) with your name and phone number on some kind of plaque, if it went down you paid for the removal. If no ID is required in NH whats wrong this state. That's ridiculous.

[Acrossamerica]

Has any one seen the dead horse that has been beaten over this topic. Hope it does not fall into the lake.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Taz

Are you saying no ID is required on the bobhouses? My wife has told me when growing up on Champlain in NY you were required to label your (they called them shantys) with your name and phone number on some kind of plaque, if it went down you paid for the removal. If no ID is required in NH whats wrong this state. That's ridiculous.

Name, address and phone number are REQUIRED on all bob houses....

Dan

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Name, address and phone number are REQUIRED on all bob houses....

Dan

Dan, it's name and address only...no phone number required per NH Fish and Game digest.
I had a bob house on Newfound this year (first time) and was checked by wardens a couple of times...the only fault was not enough reflective tape per side (12 sq inches required) my house was manufactured with about half of that.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Dan, it's name and address only...no phone number required per NH Fish and Game digest.
I had a bob house on Newfound this year (first time) and was checked by wardens a couple of times...the only fault was not enough reflective tape per side (12 sq inches required) my house was manufactured with about half of that.

Thanks for the clarification....

I put a phone number on mine and one year I got a phone call from a snowmobiler who was completely lost on the lake during a snowstorm. He was borderline hysterical...called me and wanted directions on how to get to Weirs beach. I got his name and phone number then gave him directions as best I could and told him to make sure to call me when he was safely on land. That son of a bitch never called me back so I got concerned. I kept calling his cell number that night till he answered... after reading him the riot act and many apologies from him he told me he ended up on Long Island and called someone to pick him up! True story!

Dan

[Sully]

This is simple, Mr. Moritz, identify the cost to professionally clean the ice, then simply raise the entry price or reduce the prize values by that amount of money. There is no other solution that will ensure success.

[Joebon]

I agree with Sully. The solution is so simple that it should not have taken Mr Moritz this long to figure it out.


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[ACME on the Broads]

Sully sounds like a smart man, after driving around Meredith Bay yesterday and once again seeing all the trash and garbage left from the ignorant and oblivious, his suggestion to Mr. Moritz is a sound approach.

Why is it that those of us who love and take great pride in our beautiful and wonderful natural resource should be left with the mess left from those who care less about our lake?

With the upcoming snow due on Tuesday, the eyesore will be hidden and soon, sitting on the bottom of Meredith Bay....a shame for those of us that call this home, yet a distant memory for those that come, enjoy the beauty of our lake and then leave their trash and a mess behind..it's a real shame. Protection of all parts of our Lake Winnipesaukee must be elevated.

SULLY IS RIGHT!!!!!!

[fatlazyless]

Looking at the debris still out there in Meredith Bay from the town docks, it looks to be 8', and 10' lumber, like 2x4's that were positioned under a bob house to keep it from getting froze into the ice during a freeze-thaw-freeze cycle. The wood debris looks to be froze into the ice which is why it was left in place by the volunteer clean-up.

Most all of the left there debris will float, and it either gets picked up by a boater, or floats ashore, and gets picked up ashore by a shoreline business or the town dpw or as flotsam & jetsam, by a flotsam & jetsam picker-upper.

Hey there ....... are you a flotsam & jetsam picker-upper? Once, a few years back, I saw a ten dollar bill floating about four feet out from the Meredith town dock....so's I reached out and scooped it up with my $14-Walmart, Roger Federer, tennis racquet....must have been a left-over from some wealthy ice fisherman! That was a one-handed back hand!

[Just Sold]

Itook this photo today showing some of the debris in Meredith.