Ban kids from restaurants?

[Pineedles]

Since it has been a topic of conversation here on the forum, I found it interesting that a restaurant in Pittsburgh, that's PA not NH, has banned kids 6 and under from their establishment.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43718876...mall_business/

Are there anyplaces on the lake that would dare do this?

[brk-lnt]

I think that's a little harder to do with the seasonality (and general family-oriented atmosphere), but damn I wish there were people that would realize their kids are obnoxious brats and not take them out to a nice place to eat.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Since it has been a topic of conversation here on the forum, I found it interesting that a restaurant in Pittsburgh, that's PA not NH, has banned kids 6 and under from their establishment.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43718876...mall_business/

Are there anyplaces on the lake that would dare do this?

I may start a restaurant just so I can enforce this policy!

[Kamper]

I wish there were a couple places around here that had that policy. Then I would say to the wife, "Let's go to (KidFreeZone) for dinner tonight." without her springing it at the last minute "Is it okay if (EldestDaughter) meets us there with (Obnoxious) and (Agravating)?"

[jkjoshuatree]

...so here's my 2 cents.

If you're a parent and the kids are behaving like lunatics, it's all on the parents.

Kids are kids. Sometimes they're grumpy, tired, teething, missed their nap...whatever it may be...but it's up to the parents to teach good manners, courtesy, and politeness.

And yes, I have kids. Are they always perfectly behaved? Of course not. But if I know they are going to be unbearable in public, I certainly wouldn't take them to a restaurant.




The child supplies the power but the parents have to do the steering.

~Benjamin Spock

[Argie's Wife]

I don't disagree with the restaurant having the rule that they do - that's their business.

It's sad that some parents don't train up their kids to know how to have good manners or consideration for others. The parents who bring their ill-behaved children into nice restaurants show that they themselves have little consideration for the other patrons in the restaurant by their action. If people had more common sense, rules like that wouldn't be necessary.

When Argie and I want a nice time out, we do it sans kids. It's rare that we go out, just the two of us, but that's how things are for now, while our kids are little. (The Argelets are now 10 and 6 years old.) When we're out for a nice dinner, we don't want to sit next to whiney kids.

When we go out as a family, we're careful to pick a family-oriented place. The kids are happier and we're happier because it's more relaxed, but also don't have two sets of rules or expectations - one for home and one for when we're "out" - we expect our boys to behave, say please and thank you, and to not eat like little animals. Our youngest boy is developmentally delayed, so teaching him how to behave socially is a little more challenging, but he's doing a great job - he just takes more reminding/patience than the oldest boy. We also have learned when to stay home because the kids are tired or not ready to behave - but that was a learning curve for us, too. We weren't born knowing how to parent but we've learned what works or doesn't work for our kids.

I'm sure there's been times in the past when people were glad we left a restaurant (and a couple of times when I've removed a screaming kid before we were done simply because there was no "saving" our situation - leaving was the best option for everyone!)

Social growth aside, I won't raise my kids to be rude or obnoxious adults. It's work on both our part and their part - but the payoff is when someone comes by our table and comments on how well behaved our boys are - that's when I'm a proud mamma!

As the kids get older, I expect we'll move up from Friendly's, diners (the Maine Diner is a fav), to nicer places. We recently tried Jade Garden in Tilton with much success.

[ishoot308]

If everyone had the same attitude as you A.W., the world and eating out would be much nicer!

Kudos to you for your fine parenting skills!

Dan

[VitaBene]

Canoe has a no young kid/ adult room. It is the main dining room to the left when you walk in.

I have no issue with banning kids, even when it effected us (kids are now old enough for main dining). I think it is reasonable to enjoy a quality meal, which for many may be a day out without their own kids, in relative peace and quiet.

Great post AW

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

If everyone had the same attitude as you A.W., the world and eating out would be much nicer!

Kudos to you for your fine parenting skills!

Dan

Thanks. We're hardly perfect - we've had to work at parenting and I know there's times when our little troop was less than welcome in some places. I feel for the young parents going through it for the first time - it certainly takes practice.

Live and learn.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I may start a restaurant just so I can enforce this policy!

Will I still be allowed in SP?

[NBR]

The youngster causing the issue are not to blame. Poor parenting is.

[spider22]

I like the idea of what canoe does and have a room set aside that they don't allow kids. My wife and I have 4 kids(the youngest one is 13 now) and we love them and love kids in general but if just the 2 of us go out or maybe with another couple and want a nice quiet meal we do not want a baby crying next to us or a 2 year old having a fit. We used to go on vacation to the Margate and used to eat at the restauraunt(I believe it is Blackstones) that is part of the margate. We started going there when our oldest son was about a year old and he never cried or disturbed anyone. When he was three our middle son was about 1 and the 2 of them together never disturbed anyone so going out to eat with young children can be done without disturbing other diners but I do not have a problem with places like the canoe having a certain area that young children are not allowed.

[TOAD]

I was loud and obnoxious as a little kid. My folks locked me in a closet when they went out to eat. They brought leftovers.

[spider22]

Originally Posted by TOAD

I was loud and obnoxious as a little kid. My folks locked me in a closet when they went out to eat. They brought leftovers.

I hope this did not scar you

[GTO]

Didn't the old St Charles church have a separate room for kids while mass was taken place? I seem to remember it as a kid....not that I ever went in there. I'm not sure what is more obnoxious these days, kids or the adult that talks on his/her cell phone so everyone else in the place can hear also

[Jmo77011]

We have two kids, ages 6 and almost 3, and another one on the way. I think it is fine to ban kids from certain restaurants. We usually go to family friendly restaurants, but when we do get the occasional "date night", the last thing I want to hear is a screaming child! My kids are usually pretty well behaved in restaurants, but we have definatley asked to have our meals boxed and left in the middle of a meal if someone has a meltdown. I wouldn't say that's good parenting, just common courtesy.


As a side note, I wish that airlines would have family friendly flights. We are a military family and we have to fly quite often. It would be so much easier if certain flights were kid friendly. Mine are pretty used to flying, but if there was a flight that offered a kid friendly movie, snacks, etc, I'd book that in a second! And every flight has the crying baby...I know, I have had the crying baby a few times!

[Pineedles]

Most of you have hit the nail on the head. As the article and the restaurant owner stated, it's the parents, not the kids. AW & A are the kind of parents that most diners would like to see sitting next to them.

[cillovely]

As a side note, I wish that airlines would have family friendly flights. We are a military family and we have to fly quite often. It would be so much easier if certain flights were kid friendly. Mine are pretty used to flying, but if there was a flight that offered a kid friendly movie, snacks, etc, I'd book that in a second! And every flight has the crying baby...I know, I have had the crying baby a few times!

I agree about that! I have a soon to be 4 year old and we go to Orlando Florida about once a year in the fall. Last year, my son was getting antsy wating to board so by the time I was trying to get him to our seats, he wasn't too happy. This old fart was like "put that brat in the back". I'm like what do you expect on a flight to ORLANDO!! Land of Mickey Mouse and all sorts of KIDS things. I have yet to be on a flight there or home no matter what time of day or night that wasn't packed with families. It makes me so self conscious and I feel like everyone is giving us dirty looks. If there was a family flight or better yet, since they are the minority, an old fart only flight, then it would make flying a better time. And with the movies/snacks that would be even better.

As far as going out to dinner, I would never take him anywhere that isn't family oriented and if he starts up, we leave. I think having a ban on kids is fine. I like to go out just me and hubby and don't want kids acting up around us either.

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by Jmo77011

We have two kids, ages 6 and almost 3, and another one on the way. I think it is fine to ban kids from certain restaurants. We usually go to family friendly restaurants, but when we do get the occasional "date night", the last thing I want to hear is a screaming child! My kids are usually pretty well behaved in restaurants, but we have definatley asked to have our meals boxed and left in the middle of a meal if someone has a meltdown. I wouldn't say that's good parenting, just common courtesy.


As a side note, I wish that airlines would have family friendly flights. We are a military family and we have to fly quite often. It would be so much easier if certain flights were kid friendly. Mine are pretty used to flying, but if there was a flight that offered a kid friendly movie, snacks, etc, I'd book that in a second! And every flight has the crying baby...I know, I have had the crying baby a few times!

Not to derail this thread, but I was on a flight from Manchester to Philadelphia back in April of this year, and was sitting next to two kids, around the ages 6 to 8 years old, their mom, and their grandmother. They were headed to Disneyland in FL.

The grandmother was most definately "in charge" of the group and had packed an impressive "busy bag" of activities, books, puzzles, snacks, and kept the kids engaged the whole time. The kids were great - but they weren't left to sit and stare out a window or play video games - they were kept busy. Bored kids usually make trouble - those two little ones didn't have an opportunity to get bored or complain. (The kids had better manners and social skills than the flight attendant I encountered that day - whoo, lemme tell ya!)

Anyhow, I took notes and that encounter gave me ideas for keeping my own two boys from being the Destructo Brothers while we're out - whether its a day trip or something more. I learned a lot on that short flight!

[Jmo77011]

Yup, travel bags are the key to success on a plane, for sure. One time when my daughter was three, we were stuck on the runway in a snowstorm for FIVE HOURS!! Boy, was I happy to have a bag full of snacks and surprises...but it ended up being the lady across the aisle who saved the day...by teaching her to blow bubbles with her gum! I still smile when I think about that lady!

Sorry about the hijack!

[JPC]

My wife and I go out to dinner around 7PM and we will almost every time see a young couple with little kids. Not all the time but some times the kids are acting up/cranky and the parents let them. What I don't get is why don't the parents get baby sitters? Why are the kids not in bed by that time? We always got baby sitters when our kids were little. Not only that but our kids were ready for bed by 7PM. They had an active day and they were tired. We see kids in restaurants well past 8:30PM and they are cranky. 30yrs ago if I didn't have the extra bucks for a baby sitter we didn't go out. But I suppose times have changed!

When we are being seated we look around to see who will be next to us. If there are little kids we ask to be moved to a different table.

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by JPC

... 30yrs ago if I didn't have the extra bucks for a baby sitter we didn't go out. ...

Many folks don't have as many baby-sitting contacts as you did 30 years ago and it's harder to find some-one to trust with your kids.

[dpg]

It's a stupid rule and hopefully the restaurants business suffers because of it.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by dpg

It's a stupid rule and hopefully the restaurants business suffers because of it.

... I bet it won't!

After reading the posts above, why do you think it is stupid? I found the reasons for not allowing kids at some restaurants/ rooms to be compelling. Just wondering.

[JPC]

Originally Posted by dpg

It's a stupid rule and hopefully the restaurants business suffers because of it.

The owner of the restaurant in question was interviewed on GMA and he stated that the email response has been very positive. He is also getting positive responses from Europe too.

And by the way he is not the first restaurant to ban kids. There are 6 across this nation.

Now, I have to ask you, would we have this "Stupid Rule" if parents with toddlers or babies stayed home or got baby sitters? Have you ever been seated at a table next to a screaming kid? It's not a pleasant dining experience.

[dpg]

Yes I have been seated beside crying kids and I just think it's stupid, that's all not going to justify my opinion. How many known restaurants are doing it maybe a dozen? Out of how many in the country, hundreds of thousands?? Yup a real popular move on those 12 or so owners. If a toddler cry's on your precious night out to eat get over it, life's to short. And no, I do not have any infants, my kids are old enough to (legally) drink!

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by dpg

Yes I have been seated beside crying kids and I just think it's stupid, that's all not going to justify my opinion. How many known restaurants are doing it maybe a dozen? Out of how many in the country, hundreds of thousands?? Yup a real popular move on those 12 or so owners. If a toddler cry's on your precious night out to eat get over it, life's to short. And no, I do not have any infants, my kids are old enough to (legally) drink!

Yes, Life is to short, and for many of us, the pleasure of enjoying a meal in a nice restaurant come few and far between. For me it is an extreme treat to spend $100 on dinner out and when I do, I'll be damned if I want that evening disrupted by a crying or a misbehaving child and then to have the evening wrecked because the parent of said child or children do absolutely Nothing to control the behavior of their child just adds fuel to the fire in my support of any restaurant to ban children.
While my fiancé and I were dinning in the new Mexican restaurant in Moultonborough July 4th weekend there was a group of 6 or 8 people waiting for tables to open up and be prepped for them. there was one boy approx. 5 or 6 who spent most of the wait running around the dinning room going to everybody's table and looking at everybody's food. Not Once did his parents /zoo keeper do a thing to stop him or prevent him from bothering the restaurant other paying customers.
If you want spend your evening dining next to a bratty crying child have at it. I'll happily spend my money and support any restaurant that is willing to ban kids.

[Heaven]

I agree that it is a two or three times a year event for me to eat at a really nice restaurant like the Woodshed, The Corner House, or The Restaurant 03894. It isn't too unreasonable to expect people with young children to eat at family orientated restaurants, no matter what they personally might be able to afford.

[jniff101]

I don't feel that it is right to completely ban kids for a restaurant. A designated room is great but ban...Seems a bit harsh. I have 2 young kids and yes we get a babysitter 99% of the time. The other 1% is spent going to the 99 or Applebees, something like that. My kids are well behaved but they are just like any other kid, they can have their moments. As soon as we see a "moment" coming on I take them outside and they are put in timeout until they can behave. Kids aren't going to learn how to act in public if you don't put them in that situation right? If I saw that I was banned from somewhere because I had kids it would put a sour taste in my mouth.

[jrc]

The problem here is stereotyping and the precedent. If I can ban entire class of people from a restaurant because of the behavior of a a few member of that class, where does it stop? Can I ban all French Canadians because some of them talk too loudly about hockey. Can I ban all New Yorkers because some wear irritating Yankees hats. Can I ban Southerners because some of them talk funny. Can I ban teenagers because, well just because. I stayed with "safe" prejudices but you all know of where this leads.

I think restaurants need to deal with the problem not the class of people.

[JPC]

Originally Posted by jrc

The problem here is stereotyping and the precedent. If I can ban entire class of people from a restaurant because of the behavior of a a few member of that class, where does it stop? Can I ban all French Canadians because some of them talk too loudly about hockey. Can I ban all New Yorkers because some wear irritating Yankees hats. Can I ban Southerners because some of them talk funny. Can I ban teenagers because, well just because. I stayed with "safe" prejudices but you all know of where this leads.

I think restaurants need to deal with the problem not the class of people.

JRC, some restaurants are dealing with the problem. The problem is some parents haven't learned how to be parents and have no respect for other patrons.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by jrc

The problem here is stereotyping and the precedent. If I can ban entire class of people from a restaurant because of the behavior of a a few member of that class, where does it stop? Can I ban all French Canadians because some of them talk too loudly about hockey. Can I ban all New Yorkers because some wear irritating Yankees hats. Can I ban Southerners because some of them talk funny. Can I ban teenagers because, well just because. I stayed with "safe" prejudices but you all know of where this leads.

I think restaurants need to deal with the problem not the class of people.

Ummm... Your not banning a "class" of people by not allowing children in under a certain age. This isn't discrimination or racism that's being discussed here, far from it! I don't like people playing the tuba while I'm eating either so is banning tuba players from a restaurant discriminatory or like banning a class of people??... I think not. There is a time and a place to play the tuba and it's not while sitting at a table at a fancy restaurant!

Dan

[Jonas Pilot]

Hey! Some of my best friends are tuba players.

[tricia1218]

I have a 3 year old and it is hard to predict how she will behave out for dinner, so we pick places that are family friendly, louder enviornments and no later than 5:30 for dinner. We have a group of friends with kids that often invite us out for dinner kids and all, and I avoid it. The adults spend most of the dinner making sure no one is spilling, choking, eating what they are not supposed to. I am ok with no children dinning, there is no shortage of family friendly places to eat, if my daughter is coming along.

[jrc]

You can't ban tuba players but you can ban tuba playing.

You shouldn't ban children, you should ban childish behavior.

"Well behaved children, Welcome!" Leave your brats home.

I'm just having a little fun, I do believe what I say here but I don't think people are capable of determining that their kids are brats. Plus restaurants are chicken to play, your kid can come in, but yours can't. It easier just to ban them all.

Plus parents have totally abandoned the idea that there are adult places and things that children just don't belong. Travel to Las Vegas and even Foxwoods and see infants and toddlers in the casino at midnight! I've seen parents swap off, one hold the baby in the hallway while the other gambles, then they swap.

Even locally, I see kids in the bar side of restaurants all the time. Sitting next to a bunch of college guys doing shots, is no place for a baby.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by jniff101

I don't feel that it is right to completely ban kids for a restaurant. A designated room is great but ban...Seems a bit harsh. I have 2 young kids and yes we get a babysitter 99% of the time. The other 1% is spent going to the 99 or Applebees, something like that. My kids are well behaved but they are just like any other kid, they can have their moments. As soon as we see a "moment" coming on I take them outside and they are put in timeout until they can behave. Kids aren't going to learn how to act in public if you don't put them in that situation right? If I saw that I was banned from somewhere because I had kids it would put a sour taste in my mouth.

FWIW, while I like 99 and Applebees, I don't consider them high-end eateries, nor do I have high expectations when going there. I personally think those are "family" restaurants and if I go there, I can reasonably expect to encounter children and families.

However, if I go to brunch at the Lakehouse (as an example) I don't expect to see or appreciate a table of adults that are completely ignorant of their offspring running around, getting in the way, sampling food off the buffet with their fingers and similar actions.

I think there is a certain class of restaurant where it's reasonable to expect that children along for the meal would be "seen and not heard". If that place has ongoing problems and a strong demand, I don't think it is unreasonable to set an age limit for their patrons.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that all children be banned from all restaurants.

[Pineedles]

I like 99 restaurants too, because they are serving 100% knuckle and claw lobster rolls! NO LEG MEAT! NO TAIL MEAT! $15.00 is alot of money for lunch but from personal experience......IT is worth it! Sorry for derailing my own post, but I was really impressed with the 99.

[jniff101]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

FWIW, while I like 99 and Applebees, I don't consider them high-end eateries, nor do I have high expectations when going there. I personally think those are "family" restaurants and if I go there, I can reasonably expect to encounter children and families.

However, if I go to brunch at the Lakehouse (as an example) I don't expect to see or appreciate a table of adults that are completely ignorant of their offspring running around, getting in the way, sampling food off the buffet with their fingers and similar actions.

I think there is a certain class of restaurant where it's reasonable to expect that children along for the meal would be "seen and not heard". If that place has ongoing problems and a strong demand, I don't think it is unreasonable to set an age limit for their patrons.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that all children be banned from all restaurants.

You must have misunderstood me. I know those places are kid firendly, that's why if I have my kids I go there. I know better then to take them to a 4 star restaurant (even though they never act like you discribed some kids acting). I absolutely agree that if I go out to a nice dinner with my husband I don't want to sit next to a table with out of control kids. All I am saying is that instead of completely stopping you at the door and saying "your not welcome here" a simple, "please come this way to our family section" is the better way to go.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by jniff101

All I am saying is that instead of completely stopping you at the door and saying "your not welcome here" a simple, "please come this way to our family section" is the better way to go.

Good point, though this somewhat assumes they have floor space and budget to properly create two distinct dining spaces.

The issue is more likely they are working with limited resources and find that 95% of their clientele is adults, and 5% is adults with mutant offsrping in tow (yes, I'm being a tad over the top).

Having a small touch of experience in the restaurant biz, adults who bring mutant offspring and are oblivious to their antics are also often high-maintenance, low-tipping, generally troublesome patrons. Perhaps it is in the businesses' best interest to simply encourage those customers not dine there? They likely realize that they may also lose some business from people like yourself or AW who likely have perfectly acceptable offspring, but it might amount to less than a rounding error, plus increased business from diners who are then more assured of a pleasant meal at the establishment.

[Pineedles]

mutant offspring

[Argie's Wife]

What I think is worse than misbehaved children at a restaurant, is a bunny wearing a pancake on its head... Just sayin'....

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Good point, though this somewhat assumes they have floor space and budget to properly create two distinct dining spaces.

The issue is more likely they are working with limited resources and find that 95% of their clientele is adults, and 5% is adults with mutant offsrping in tow (yes, I'm being a tad over the top).

Having a small touch of experience in the restaurant biz, adults who bring mutant offspring and are oblivious to their antics are also often high-maintenance, low-tipping, generally troublesome patrons. Perhaps it is in the businesses' best interest to simply encourage those customers not dine there? They likely realize that they may also lose some business from people like yourself or AW who likely have perfectly acceptable offspring, but it might amount to less than a rounding error, plus increased business from diners who are then more assured of a pleasant meal at the establishment.

Great post, agree completely.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

What I think is worse than misbehaved children at a restaurant, is a bunny wearing a pancake on its head... Just sayin'....

I agree. It's moral outrage, and surely a violation of animal cruelty laws. I say we form a committee to study the effects of inflicting breakfast foods on the noggins of rabbits. This would likely qualify for some of the various taxpayer funded government grants being doled out currently, and with an election year coming up no politician would want to deny such funds to a group committed to the protection of both rabbits AND pancakes.

Our first meeting will be this weekend at a local establishment with a decent wine list, I'm open to suggestions.

[Pineedles]

At last my question is answered! It was pancakes! Thanks AW.

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

I agree. It's moral outrage, and surely a violation of animal cruelty laws. I say we form a committee to study the effects of inflicting breakfast foods on the noggins of rabbits. This would likely qualify for some of the various taxpayer funded government grants being doled out currently, and with an election yeat coming up no politician would want to deny such funds to a group committed to the protection of both rabbits AND pancakes.

Our first meeting will be this weekend at a local establishment with a decent wine list, I'm open to suggestions.

I'm in...can we make the meeting at a restaurant that doesn't allow any mutant offspring?

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

I'm in...can we make the meeting at a restaurant that doesn't allow any mutant offspring?

That seems appropriate.

I hear there is a new place in Meredith that does not allow children and only accepts payments in bitcoins. The have 4 tables (but 3 of them are VEERY wobbly). Seems like a good place to try.

http://theoatmeal.com/blog/restaurant_popular

[Argie's Wife]

Derailing this even further...

Nevermind the good wine... who has good - I mean, GREAT beer?

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

Derailing this even further...

Nevermind the good wine... who has good - I mean, GREAT beer?

Wish I could answer that, because based on your other post about Black Cat, I think we enjoy similar beers.

Wining Butcher tends to have a good selection, but of course that's just a cash n' carry kind of thing. Not sure who serves such a selection in the immediate area.

[trfour]

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

Derailing this even further...

Nevermind the good wine... who has good - I mean, GREAT beer?

Argie's Wife, If you haven't tried it, and you like good beer, try some Beck's. Patrick's Pub has it, and/or others what should satisfy Y'All!

Terry
______________________________

[NBR]

My youngest is over 40 but if I see a no children sign or know a resturant is a no child place I go somewhere else. I repeat unruly children are the result of poor parenting.

[TOAD]

Originally Posted by NBR

My youngest is over 40 but if I see a no children sign or know a resturant is a no child place I go somewhere else. I repeat unruly children are the result of poor parenting.

I agree 100%.

[Jonas Pilot]

My wife and I like to people watch on the rare occasions we are able to dine out. We try to find a table near the kitchen and/or entrance so we can watch the work staff and see people coming and going. I understand how someone would prefer a quiet dinner out, but for us, let 'er rip!

[Rattlesnake Guy]

RG and I ate out a lot with our young children. We considered this important family time and RG always brought plenty of stuff to keep them busy. I can't tell you how many place mats we drew 3d drawings of various objects on with crayons. Now my youngest is a senior in Mechanical Engineering.

We lived successfully by the one strike rule. If the kids acted up one time, we were gone. RG would take the kids to the car and I would pay the bill at whatever stage the meal was at. I think we did this maybe 3 times. It is tremendously effective. Kids learn fast. Soon they learned to behave as required and they developed social skills by ordering their own food and interacting with the wait person.

We actually got to dread having to be seated in the kids section as we did not want to be exposed to parents who were clueless at just how annoying their crying kid can be. And just because they are used to hearing their kid whine and complain at home, it is not something others can just deal with easily.

Should a private business be free to restrict kids if they want to, certainly. Should you exercises your right to punish or reward them for it, absolutely. Will a restaurant be successful for such a policy, some will, some won't.

Now as I get on my 16 hour flight, I pray to God almighty that business class will save me from the children of others.

[tis]

Maybe a restaurant should put a sign out reserving the right to ask someone to leave if there children are not acting appropriately. No, probably not, in this politically correct day and age, they would probably get sued. But it IS too bad to punish all children for those whose parent's can't or don't make them mind. Our kids would be taken out if they couldn't behave too. It is the same way for dogs. WE carry our dogs everywhere they are allowed now that our kids are grown. People remark often how well behaved they are and lots of them even say better than most kids. But dogs, too, have been given a bad name because so many of them have bad manners.

Oh, and when someone takes a child to a wedding and the child distracts from the wedding, I think that is the worst!!!! Sorry to go a little off topic.

[SAMIAM]

Sounds like Rattlesnake Guy has got parenting dialed in right. Kids learn fast.
Seems like, in this day and age things have changed from when us generation Xers were bringing up our kids.
Somehow, many of us suffered through an actual spanking and lived without permanent damage to our self esteem.....went on to lead productive lives.
We used to call them temper tantrums and wouldn't tolerate it.....now they are called "meltdowns" and many parents just let 'em rip......even heard a few moms chuckling, as they compared notes on their two year olds pitching a fit in a store.
Doesn't bother me, though.....lot more important things to worry about......gotta love 'em all, even the little devils.

[Rag Top Daze]

I remember back in the day when this discussion was about smoking and non smoking restaurants. I fee about kids the same was as the old smoking issue. If a restaurant makes their no kid policy known, you either choose to eat there, or go someplace else.

[SIKSUKR]

Kind of along the same lines as this thread, I had a funny dining experience on Friday. My better half and I went to eat at T-bones in Bedford. We sat outside(very nice) and found that they allow dogs there. 4 tables had dogs and all were well behaved. But I digress. I actually mentioned that all 5 of the 8 tables had kids and they were all really well behaved.

Here was the funny part. We overheard the father at the table next to us say to his son "If you don't eat that your paying for it". The kid ate his food. Maybe the same strategy would work with with mutant offspring.

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Here was the funny part. We overheard the father at the table next to us say to his son "If you don't eat that your paying for it". The kid ate his food. Maybe the same strategy would work with with mutant offspring.

Oh, yes! In our house the rule is if you asked for it, took it, or touched it and don't eat it, expect it to show up again at your next meal. (Ditto for restaurant left-overs!)

The only time we don't enforce that rule is if there's something wrong with the food (overcooked or undercooked, etc.)

[baygo]

I have been anxious to chime in on this since it first came up, but when I found time to return my computer came up lame. It's fixed now so here's my view.

I introduce a similar topic when surveying the forum prior to a our soft opening at Tavern 27. My thoughts before the survey were to practice "children welcome before prime dinning hours". The forum feed-back influenced me to choose not to operate under such a policy. I am so glad that I was swayed away. We have several families that have become loyal guests. In many cases the children have had surprisingly good behavior. Some have expressed their appreciation for our food in a more colorful and articulate manner than some adults have. There are also a couple of families who come together. We seat the adults together at one table and the children at a neighboring table. The children get pizza fast followed by a Scrabble board.. while the adults enjoy a Tapas flow.

I have also had moments of regret; A party of 5 with a 2 or 3 year old boy reserved our fireplace seating area. The child came in with a ball and upon his second step thru the door stated throwing it around. Next he started to run around screaming in the company of guests who were out for a romantic evening. Then the child let out a large screech and mom started yelling. I asked them to leave

Children are our future. McDonald's built an empire by marketing with a clown and providing a playground.

Perhaps the trick is to welcome the children but have a trick up the sleeve to entertain or occupy them and a room to separate them from adult diners who prefer a child=fee environment.

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by baygo

... the child let out a large screech and mom started yelling. I asked them to leave ...

Few food-service operators have (guts) large enough to try that. They look on puzzled as other patrons box up the rest of their meal and leave without dessert, coffee, aperitif - or plans to return.

[Newbiesaukee]

I have avoided this discussion as it is as much about "what is wrong with our society" as about the specific issue. Not that there is anything wrong with discussing our societal problems, just not here.

Anyway, I never liked Canoe's adult only and family only dining policy. My children are grown and the grandchildren are rarely here, but by relegating all families to one room you are actually punishing the families with well -behaved children who are then subjected to the ill-behaved children. It's only fair that we all should deal with the brats ( or poorly raised children if you prefer).

There really is no simple answer, but it's been a slow day for me, so I chimed in.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Perhaps a well behaved section and a poorly behaved section. Age has little to do with it sometimes. I wonder how many people know which room is appropriate for their family? Like survivor, the other guest could vote them out of the room. Or into the parking lot.

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by trfour

Argie's Wife, If you haven't tried it, and you like good beer, try some Beck's. Patrick's Pub has it, and/or others what should satisfy Y'All!

Terry
______________________________

Tried it... liked it... but I like the really thick, dark, murky... almost like a milkshake in texture... malty... smoky... yum... stuff.... Beck's was a bit light...

Back to topic... (sorry for the derail...)

[Pineedles]

Not sure how you would arbitrate this if there is a disagreement, but how about a discount for well behaved children? Advertise it as, if there are no complaints from other diners while your child is dining with us, they get 10 or 20% off the child's meal. Its anonymous, so there would be no argumets between patrons. It certainly would reward the parents of the well behaved children and might wake up those parents that haven't a clue about their children's behavior.

[SIKSUKR]

Next time I go out to eat with Pineedles I'm sitting in a high chair so we can get that discount.

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

I have avoided this discussion as it is as much about "what is wrong with our society" as about the specific issue. Not that there is anything wrong with discussing our societal problems, just not here.

Anyway, I never liked Canoe's adult only and family only dining policy. My children are grown and the grandchildren are rarely here, but by relegating all families to one room you are actually punishing the families with well -behaved children who are then subjected to the ill-behaved children. It's only fair that we all should deal with the brats ( or poorly raised children if you prefer).

There really is no simple answer, but it's been a slow day for me, so I chimed in.

I totally agree!

We were relegated to the kids room a few times many years ago. I stopped going to Canoe then and, although my kids are now 16 to 26, we have never returned.

We eat out as a group of 4 to 10 roughly eight times a summer at the lake, plus many other times throughout the year. The memories of the rudeness that Canoe management and staff displayed back then still keeps us away. I see nothing right about banning well behaved kids from open dining. And to subject well behaved kids to the others that are not well behaved is not at all helping to solve any problem.

Just my opinion, I realize others have conflicting opinions which is their right. Glad none of our money is visiting Canoe and their unfair policy.

R2B

[TOAD]

I think we shoud just ban children....period!

[MarkinNH]

I'm with Toad.
There must be at least 1 island in lake Winnipesaukee that we can designate to be the island for misfit children.
Then we need to find another island to banish their parents to, since their ultimately to blame for their children's poor behavior.

[TOAD]

Actually Mark I was thinking more along the lines of banning everyone from even having anymore kids. Obviously some of the newborn kids are going to upset some folks who are eating out as they grow an learn.

[nj2nh]

How is a kid supposed to learn how to behave in a restaurant if they are banned from going to them. Honestly, I am having a really hard time believing anyone thinks this is a good idea. If you don't want to encounter kids, stay home or eat later when they won't be there.

Kids are people, too!

And before you jump all over me, I do agree that people should not bring children anywhere (Friendly's or the Ritz) under the following circumstances:

1. The kids are cranky because they spent all day in the water and didn't get a nap.

2. After, say, 7pm no matter how happy the kids are unless it's a quick stop at Burger King out of desperation.

3. When the kids outnumber the parents more than 4-1.

I have two boys. Both are teens. They never, ever caused a problem in a restaurant and we have taken them everywhere - including the formal dinners on a cruise, but we always went early and we never went cranky.

Don't blame the kids. Blame their parents who don't really care about their kids or the people around them. It is self-centered adults who are the problem, not their poor unfortunate children.

[TOAD]

Originally Posted by nj2nh

How is a kid supposed to learn how to behave in a restaurant if they are banned from going to them. Honestly, I am having a really hard time believing anyone thinks this is a good idea. If you don't want to encounter kids, stay home or eat later when they won't be there.

Kids are people, too!

And before you jump all over me, I do agree that people should not bring children anywhere (Friendly's or the Ritz) under the following circumstances:

1. The kids are cranky because they spent all day in the water and didn't get a nap.

2. After, say, 7pm no matter how happy the kids are unless it's a quick stop at Burger King out of desperation.

3. When the kids outnumber the parents more than 4-1.

I have two boys. Both are teens. They never, ever caused a problem in a restaurant and we have taken them everywhere - including the formal dinners on a cruise, but we always went early and we never went cranky.

Don't blame the kids. Blame their parents who don't really care about their kids or the people around them. It is self-centered adults who are the problem, not their poor unfortunate children.

I was being facetious....some of those noisy, out of control, obnoxious little kids are the movers, shakers, pilots, generals, CEOs, inventors, scientists etc of the future. Sometimes little milk-toast kids just don't measure up. Just saying. In my 62 years here on this planet I would say the I have had less than half a dozen meals with compromised enjoyment because of overactive kids. I can handle that...can't you?

[kauriel]

This discussion has been very helpful because we had only been to canoe once (for a function) and didn't notice they had an adult only dining room. We had been meaning to go back but I think we may have just found a new reason to go!

As a patron, I like the idea of kid-free restaurants or at least adult only zones because not all children are well-behaved and their parents tend to seem oblivious! I would guess some business owners and wait staff might also like the idea given that it seems kids meals tend to be fairly cheap meaning lower revenue per meal/seat and potentially lower tips if you rely on the 15 or 20% rule.

For any restaurant owners considering a ban: you have my support!

[trfour]

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

Tried it... liked it... but I like the really thick, dark, murky... almost like a milkshake in texture... malty... smoky... yum... stuff.... Beck's was a bit light...

Back to topic... (sorry for the derail...)

Beck's makes a dark version, and if thats not enough, they also make an October Fest version, that would have knocked my sox off since years ago...
Dang, you're a tough women!
Terry
________________________________

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by nj2nh

How is a kid supposed to learn how to behave in a restaurant if they are banned from going to them. Honestly, I am having a really hard time believing anyone thinks this is a good idea. If you don't want to encounter kids, stay home or eat later when they won't be there.

Kids are people, too!

And before you jump all over me, I do agree that people should not bring children anywhere (Friendly's or the Ritz) under the following circumstances:

1. The kids are cranky because they spent all day in the water and didn't get a nap.

2. After, say, 7pm no matter how happy the kids are unless it's a quick stop at Burger King out of desperation.

3. When the kids outnumber the parents more than 4-1.

I have two boys. Both are teens. They never, ever caused a problem in a restaurant and we have taken them everywhere - including the formal dinners on a cruise, but we always went early and we never went cranky.

Don't blame the kids. Blame their parents who don't really care about their kids or the people around them. It is self-centered adults who are the problem, not their poor unfortunate children.

Folks, this is a family vacation destination. Emphasis on FAMILY! Kids are people too. Honestly, in all the times we have gone out to eat up here, I can't recall having a bad experience because of somebody else's kids. Maybe it's because I'm more laid back when I'm here...maybe because of it I'm just more tolerant then I was way back when. I certainly don't appreciate a screaming demon at the next table when we're out for a nice quiet dinner..but how often does that really happen? Not enough in my experience to make a rule to ban all kids from a restaurant. If there is an out of control kid near you at a restaurant, just call the manager over and ask to be moved...I doubt that such a request would be denied.
Otherwise, just lighten up a bit and enjoy...isn't that what we all want?

[spider22]

Originally Posted by nj2nh

How is a kid supposed to learn how to behave in a restaurant if they are banned from going to them. Honestly, I am having a really hard time believing anyone thinks this is a good idea. If you don't want to encounter kids, stay home or eat later when they won't be there.

Kids are people, too!

And before you jump all over me, I do agree that people should not bring children anywhere (Friendly's or the Ritz) under the following circumstances:

1. The kids are cranky because they spent all day in the water and didn't get a nap.

2. After, say, 7pm no matter how happy the kids are unless it's a quick stop at Burger King out of desperation.

3. When the kids outnumber the parents more than 4-1.

I have two boys. Both are teens. They never, ever caused a problem in a restaurant and we have taken them everywhere - including the formal dinners on a cruise, but we always went early and we never went cranky.

Don't blame the kids. Blame their parents who don't really care about their kids or the people around them. It is self-centered adults who are the problem, not their poor unfortunate children.

I agree with you on this and I have seen stuff like this in the past. Our youngest of 4 kids is almost 14 now but I am sure that 10-13 years ago there the parents vacationing next to us must have thought we were the meanest parents in the world when we were getting our kids ready for bed at 9:00 and they were just getting ready to take their kids of roughly the same age to Funspot or some other activity. But by the middle of the week when we were still enjoying time in the middle of the day with our children because they were happy those parents were dealing with crabby kids who would just break out crying for no reason. I heard several times from those parents say "why are you so crabby today" to their young children. I am not saying that you should not loosen up a little on vacation but when you have young kids that are out all day in the sun and in the water and then you let them stay up until midnight 3 or 4 nights in a row please don't wonder why they are so crabby in a restaurant or any other place.

[dpg]

Can someone start a poll? (I don't know how too) So we can vote and all move on...

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by dpg

Can someone start a poll? (I don't know how too) So we can vote and all move on...

Here it is http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=12702

[trfour]

Even with todays economy, I couldn't imagine any respectable restaurant wanting to ban any of us kids.

Course #1, we were all taught from a very young age, and by the way born so too, that and to behave especially around the dinner table.

Course#2, I have personally enjoyed many delicious menus here in the Lakes Region, and around the world... You can check my record here, leave the belly!



Sides, have you ever tried eating with a fat lip?
Only kidding...


Here's a picture taken by Life Magazine back in 1952 when myfamily enjoyed lunch at the very exclusive Columbia Yacht Club in Philadelphia, PA. Mom And Dad and nine very well behaved children, at the time...
Terry
____________________________

Add another picture with some Asian flair...
After lunch, Wok'ing it off!

[WakeboardMom]

Funniest thing ever...(or not)....I was in El Mariachi in Moultonborough on Friday night with my husband. We walked in at 8:40...kinda late if you have kids. We sat at the bar, and I could see two tables in the corner that he couldn't see.

I said to him, "I don't know if those two tables are together, but if they're not, there's a lady being a really good sport." There was a young(er) couple sitting at a table for four with their three kids, so it was a little bit crowded, but the kids were small. They were small in stature because they were young in age. There were three kids ages about 2.5 or so to maybe 7. The youngest was a very cute little boy.

Little boy was not falling asleep at 8:45. Instead he was standing on his chair, making friends with the folks at the next table, who were four adults between the ages of thirty and fifty-ish. I thought those folks were being good sports, smiling at the little boy and not getting visibly annoyed.

10 or 15 minutes later that wasn't the case. The older folks weren't being mean, but they were no longer smiling at the little boy, instead they were chatting and trying their best to ignore him. At some point, the dad put the little boy on his lap and did his best to keep the little boy amused and away from the other diners; at that point it was after 9 pm.

This little vignette kind of illustrates why some restaurants might impose a ban on kids. I love kids; I had 4 and now I'm on to grandchildren. But at 8:30 - 9:00 on a Friday night, I'm looking to wind down from my crazy week. LOL...you'll find me at the bar.

[trfour]

Who don't have a clue how to raise their children in an more appropriate way of, ( first of all ).

# 1. Manners, around the dinner table!

# 2. How to coexist in an appropriate manner away from home!

# 3. So as to shine a light in and on a different direction!

The Hope's in our lives are so very much with us...

Another Life Magazine photo that very clearly shows where I am from, and continue to be TODAY!
Terry

[Pineedles]

From trfour's picture, I notice no elbows on the table, except for the very youngst one. Wow, does that bring back memories. How many parents enforce that rule today?

[Jonas Pilot]

"Keep your elbows off the table, this is not a horse's stable".

[SIKSUKR]

And keep your hands in your lap or they will get a rulers tap.

[Grant]

If the kids are bad enough to be banned, then the parents are also.

My wife and I have raised four kids (now ages 22, 20, 20 & 16), and NEVER had an issue with behavior in an eating establishment -- whether is was Burger King or a fine restaurant. In fact, I can remember MANY times when we had all four out -- at very young ages -- and were approached by patrons who commented about how well behaved the children were.

The secret? There isn't one. It's called discipline. Respect. Instilling it in children is a primary responsibility of parenting. If you've failed on that front, then leave the kids at home when you go out to eat. Same with air travel, movie theatres, malls, libraries, concerts, etc.

Caveat: I do remember one Lake-related incident with my kids. We took them all on the Mount Washington for the long cruise. One of my twin daughters (probably 2 or 3 at the time) was definitely in a mood that day, and threw a full-blown, lying-on-the-deck-kicking, red-faced tantrum. I forget how we squelched it, but I remember thinking about telling her that I would toss her in the Lake if she didn't stop.

A photo from that fateful day...still cracks me up.

[sa meredith]

Grant...not really sure how to take your post...other than you standing up, taking a great big bow, and saying, "my wife and I got it right!"
Way to pat yourself on the back.
Telling people who may have fussy, fidgety, or possibly hyper-active kids, that they have failed??!! Shame on you.
Who appointed you to set the standard? Some may say 4 young children (say, 11 and under) sitting quietly, patienly, and calmly at a table, together, for any period of time, is indeed "abnormal".
As kids (3 of us) we were the "abnormal" ones, as mom ruled with an iron fist when we got home (yes, it means what it means) so we were quiet, out of fear ...but I'm quite certain those are no longer excepted methods of raising children.
Seriously, children are children...sometimes, as like adults, they get into foul moods, and don't know what to do with the emotion.
Maybe you didn't mean to sound harsh, and a bit snobby with your post...but it reads that way.
By the way...your daughter pulled a freak show on a public boat, in front strangers??? Her parents must be complete failures.

[TOAD]

Originally Posted by Grant

The secret? There isn't one. It's called discipline. Respect. Instilling it in children is a primary responsibility of parenting. If you've failed on that front, then leave the kids at home when you go out to eat.

A photo from that fateful day...still cracks me up.

And that picture put a big smile on my face!

[Grant]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Grant...not really sure how to take your post...other than you standing up, taking a great big bow, and saying, "my wife and I got it right!"
Way to pat yourself on the back.
Telling people who may have fussy, fidgety, or possibly hyper-active kids, that they have failed??!! Shame on you.
Who appointed you to set the standard? Some may say 4 young children (say, 11 and under) sitting quietly, patienly, and calmly at a table, together, for any period of time, is indeed "abnormal".
As kids (3 of us) we were the "abnormal" ones, as mom ruled with an iron fist when we got home (yes, it means what it means) so we were quiet, out of fear ...but I'm quite certain those are no longer excepted methods of raising children.
Seriously, children are children...sometimes, as like adults, they get into foul moods, and don't know what to do with the emotion.
Maybe you didn't mean to sound harsh, and a bit snobby with your post...but it reads that way.
By the way...your daughter pulled a freak show on a public boat, in front strangers??? Her parents must be complete failures.

Ha! Setting the standard? Hardly. Patting myself on the back? Not quite. Just pointing out that it's not all that hard. As a parent, I'm as flawed as anyone...trust me. There's no handbook, and if there were, I wouldn't have read it. And, yes, children are children -- and to expect them to act otherwise is a waste of time. But to say that a large (and growing) percentage of parents today fall short when it comes to instilling the most basic sense of respect in their kids is not a stretch. Take a look around. Ask any teacher.

The basic premise of the thread -- banning kids from restaurants -- is patently absurd. But that point was raised for a reason. Think about it.

And the anecdote about the tantrum on the Mount? Merely an illustration that even a self-congratulatory snob like myself, who's raised potentially abnormal, Stepford-zombie offspring, has had a kid melt down. (Also an attempt to keep the post Lake-oriented, in keeping with Forum protocol.) And it wasn't the only time...far from it. My point: Incidents involving obnoxious, un-disciplined kids are way more prevalent today...and it's more often than not a reflection of lax parenting (AKA the "no longer excepted [sic] methods"). Your mileage may vary.

So, call me old school. Opinionated. I won't deny it, and don't mean to hold myself up as a model. As a kid, I was far from angelic, but I am grateful to my parents for not only instilling a real sense of discipline and respect in us, but giving us the latitude to make (and learn from) our own mistakes along the way. I've tried to do the same with my own kids.

[upthesaukee]

When our kids were young, we would come up to the lake, and after a day on the boat, Mom would say let's go out to eat. So it was off to the Schooner in Lakeport (now Avery's), Hickory Stick, Cider Press, Woodshed, etc.. The kids (girl and boy) were usually pretty good. Every once in a while, a little sidewards kick of a leg, or an "inadvertent" poke with an elbow would elicit that "look from Dad" or a "knock it off from Mom".

Most trying time was at the Schooner. My parents knew the owner (Roland and his wife, whose name escapes me at the moment). Roland would see we were there and come out and take the kids into the kitchen. After a while, the kids would come out followed shortly by our meal. Shortly thereafter, it was "eat your supper or no dessert". Come to find out, Roland used to feed the kids in the kitchen, and they would come out stuffed. Thanks Roland.

Maybe the whole idea is being looked at wrong. Don't ban kids, they don't know any better. Ban the parents who don't care who their kids are bothering other diners!

While hanging with friends yesterday, we were reminded of a stay at the Sagamore in Lake George. Their very fine dining restaurant did not allow children under the age of 12 in it, and the beautiful sitting area and lounge off the lobby, over looking the lake, had a sign stating "Well behaved children only". Maybe this is a way to go.

[Pineedles]

Good for you Grant! Gotta say that you got it right 110%. Unfortunately, "It's all about the children" today. I think sa is very upset about the Red Sox, and he is mad at the world today.

[SAMIAM]

I'd say Grant got it right and you do deserve a pat on the back for teaching your kids that there are consequences for their actions.
Many of today's parents actually reward their kids with loving attention after they have done something bad......thinking they can reason with them as if they were an adults. They soon realize that acting up gets them a lot of great face time with mom or dad......they aren't stupid.
I don't suggest that you beat your kid with a baseball bat, but spankings did the trick for 800 years.
Fear is not a bad emotion....it keeps even us adults out of trouble.

[sa meredith]

Wow...my point is being missed by quite a bit...
I certainly agree that far too many parents have failed to instill respect, and the need to act appropriatly in public, in young children. Some actually just let the kids do their own thing and ignore.
However...
I thought it strange that someone would post that they "NEVER had a issue with behavior..." and that "...if you've failed at that, leave the kids at home". Just a terrible thing to write. Grant himself said his kid pulled a side way nutty on the Mount (which is weird, he said he never had a single incident...maybe his child used their mulligan?)
My point is simply this...many well behaved, well mannered children, have their off day. They're kids! Who knows what you're going to get from day to day? To see a child act up in a restaraunt, and think their parents have "failed" at teaching discipline, is bit too judgemental for me. At times, kids will be kids. But I got the feeling that what Grant was saying, was..."well, not MY kids. We did it right" ...and thought that a bit weird.
That's all.
As for other remarks...yep, the Sox have me in wonderful frame of mind. ARE...YOU...FREAKIN'...KIDDING...ME???!!!

And I agree about kids needing a good smack from time to time. We got them regularly...and, as a result learned ma and dad meant business, when they told us to smarten up.
I eat at the VK regularly, because they don't tolerate nonsense there. The wait staff frequently smack youngsters upside the head...and it keeps the peace very nicely.

[fpartri497]

the wait staff frequently slaps kids up side the head? sounds like a law suit to me

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by fpartri497

the wait staff frequently slaps kids up side the head? sounds like a law suit to me

Pease tell me you didn't think I was serious?
The VK staff is top notch...you can't find a better crew of team players.

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by fpartri497

the wait staff frequently slaps kids up side the head? sounds like a law suit to me

Nope, just the out of control adults get smacked.

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Nope, just the out of control adults get smacked.

Guilty as charged

[fpartri497]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Pease tell me you didn't think I was serious?
The VK staff is top notch...you can't find a better crew of team players.

Ya got me there, I fell for that one

[laketrout]

If the kid(s) are well behaved who cares! I took 4 of my kids to Lago's and Church landing all behaved well, bring things for them to do.

It is also all about $$$. Many businesses are suffering- remember we are in the Great Recession or have people forgot. Portfolios and Real Estate has "Shrunk$$". Low or High end If I own a restaurant I want the business and I want return business. Do people know the failure rate of restaurants, it is pretty high & add to that a crap economy.

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by laketrout

... Do people know the failure rate of restaurants, it is pretty high & add to that a crap economy.

You do need to be careful about turning business away. Many years ago, a former GF and I went to a small new restaraunt in Amherst. We did not realise this place was going with the "Formal Dining" style and while we were dressed nice, we definitly did not meet their standard. Since we were at the door before we saw the small sign advising something about 'formal wear required,' and it didn't look crowded, we went in anyway.

The place was 1/2 to 2/3's empty but the hostess (perhaps thinking she had a polite phrasing for throwing us out) advised us that 'all space was reserved for the evening and they could not accomodate us today.' Unfortunatly she said it loud enough for everyone in the dining room heard and most looked over and apeared to be uncomfortable.

This was the 3rd or 4th place to try "Formal Dining" in this area. None of them lasted 6 months. You do take a risk for being too exclusive. Even if the people who visit you meet your target market they may wish to dine out at times that they don't. That is a lot of missed business.

I'm glad I'm only a customer and just get to pick where I want to go, not need to guess what atmosphere potential diners are looking for today.

[ChocolateGypsy]

Originally Posted by WakeboardMom

Funniest thing ever...(or not)....I was in El Mariachi in Moultonborough on Friday night with my husband. We walked in at 8:40...kinda late if you have kids. We sat at the bar, and I could see two tables in the corner that he couldn't see.
SNIP
Little boy was not falling asleep at 8:45. Instead he was standing on his chair, making friends with the folks at the next table, who were four adults between the ages of thirty and fifty-ish. I thought those folks were being good sports, smiling at the little boy and not getting visibly annoyed.
SNIP
This little vignette kind of illustrates why some restaurants might impose a ban on kids. I love kids; I had 4 and now I'm on to grandchildren. But at 8:30 - 9:00 on a Friday night, I'm looking to wind down from my crazy week. LOL...you'll find me at the bar.

The Mariachi has a children's menu? If not, I'm a little surprised at what the parents were willing to spend on the childrens' dinners. Then again, most restaurants in that part of the lake are closed by 8pm, except the Mariachi... which turns into a bit of a "pub" after dark. Might not have been the wisest choice, but not many choices if they just got into town.

I don't believe in banning children, but some parents seem to have a problem with judgement. If the lakes region had a strip joint, I believe there are some folks who would try to bring their kids in there as well! (And then holler "constitutional right" when they're told to leave.)

I see children whose parents are oblivious to the child causing problems with service, becoming a hazard and getting into things they shouldn't be touching. (Liability!!) Unless it is a restaurant which caters to families, believe me, restaurants don't want these customers -- they order the least expensive items, the waitstaff have to double as babysitters, it's extra work to bus their tables (since these kids tend to make a huge mess) and the children ruin the evening for the other guests with their screaming and rampaging. (Hey! They went there to get away from that kind of stuff!)

You'd think this would be a worst-case scenario, but unfortunately I see it a lot. So is it any wonder that some restaurants want to ban children? If you don't work in a restaurant, you probably don't see it enough for it to bother you... unless you are trying to propose to your girlfriend and the kid at the next table is having a meltdown... maybe you'd think twice.

[ChocolateGypsy]

I believe I have the "constitutional right" to start discussing perverted sex acts in public with my friends whenever your kid leans over into our booth to eavesdrop.

::wink, wink::