Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Winnipesaukee Forums > Home, Cottage or Land Maintenance
Home Forums Gallery Blogs YouTube Channel Classifieds Links Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-06-2021, 10:06 AM   #1
jazzman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Mont Vernon NH & Big Barndoor Island
Posts: 309
Thanks: 4
Thanked 180 Times in 58 Posts
Default DES permits for a deck???

Does anyone know how hard (is it even possible?), to get a DES permit to extend a deck into the 50 foot buffer?

My house currently has a 4 foot deep deck across the front which is next to useless because it's only wide enough to walk on. The deck is pretty close to the 50 foot mark. It would be 10x more useful if it was 8 feet deep. Is this sort of permitting DIY, or do I need to hire a professional and turn this into a very expensive project.

FWIW, it's a wooden deck about 2 feet off the ground with 1/4" spacing between deck boards, so runoff isn't a huge issue and the yard facing the lake is dead flat with a natural berm to the lake formed by 10,000 years of ice pushing rocks into the shoreline
jazzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2021, 10:18 AM   #2
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,272
Thanks: 1,512
Thanked 940 Times in 590 Posts
Default

I know one of my neighbors attempted this to no avail. She was only allowed to extend the deck an extra 21". So she went with that, better than nothing.
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2021, 10:33 AM   #3
TheTimeTraveler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 618
Thanks: 189
Thanked 191 Times in 109 Posts
Default

There is another way to get to the piece of cheese; Don't build a deck but do landscaping instead.

Build a nice stonewall, fill it in with sand or gravel, smooth it out and use pavers or flagstone as your substitute deck surface.
TheTimeTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2021, 11:15 AM   #4
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,272
Thanks: 1,512
Thanked 940 Times in 590 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler View Post
There is another way to get to the piece of cheese; Don't build a deck but do landscaping instead.

Build a nice stonewall, fill it in with sand or gravel, smooth it out and use pavers or flagstone as your substitute deck surface.
Any work in that buffer zone would require a permit.
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Biggd For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (09-12-2021)
Old 09-06-2021, 01:04 PM   #5
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 1,597
Thanks: 836
Thanked 690 Times in 420 Posts
Default

It's very hard to imagine getting approval for anything inside of 50'. I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure that the only reason your current structure is allowed inside of 100' is that it's grandfathered. (so it could be worse)
FlyingScot is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-06-2021, 06:23 PM   #6
Heaven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 474
Thanks: 104
Thanked 89 Times in 63 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzman View Post
Does anyone know how hard (is it even possible?), to get a DES permit to extend a deck into the 50 foot buffer?

My house currently has a 4 foot deep deck across the front which is next to useless because it's only wide enough to walk on. The deck is pretty close to the 50 foot mark. It would be 10x more useful if it was 8 feet deep. Is this sort of permitting DIY, or do I need to hire a professional and turn this into a very expensive project.

FWIW, it's a wooden deck about 2 feet off the ground with 1/4" spacing between deck boards, so runoff isn't a huge issue and the yard facing the lake is dead flat with a natural berm to the lake formed by 10,000 years of ice pushing rocks into the shoreline

I believe they would rather see you extend the deck, which is still permeable, than build a nonpermeable patio, perhaps

https://www.des.nh.gov/protected-shoreland-faq#faq30916
Projects involving changes in the dimension of an attached deck require a shoreland impact permit or permit by notification. New decks may be added to nonconforming primary structures and existing decks may be expanded, provided they extend no more than 12 feet towards the reference line from the surface of the primary structure to which they are attached.
Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2021, 07:24 PM   #7
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 1,597
Thanks: 836
Thanked 690 Times in 420 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaven View Post
I believe they would rather see you extend the deck, which is still permeable, than build a nonpermeable patio, perhaps

https://www.des.nh.gov/protected-shoreland-faq#faq30916
Projects involving changes in the dimension of an attached deck require a shoreland impact permit or permit by notification. New decks may be added to nonconforming primary structures and existing decks may be expanded, provided they extend no more than 12 feet towards the reference line from the surface of the primary structure to which they are attached.
I followed your very helpful link. It says no decks unless they are "designed to absorb or infiltrate water". Maybe another reader knows how to design a deck that will absorb or infiltrate...
FlyingScot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2021, 11:11 PM   #8
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 104 Posts
Default

RainEscape
It would need to be plumbed back into drywell or sewer.
John Mercier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2021, 04:44 AM   #9
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,486
Thanks: 592
Thanked 1,141 Times in 780 Posts
Default

Call your local code officer and ask. Our code officer told us we could put something like pavers but not wood into the 50' buffer.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2021, 09:47 AM   #10
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 104 Posts
Default

Local code enforcer?
I would call DES... since they will issue the permit and any punishment for not following through.
John Mercier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2021, 10:34 AM   #11
codeman671
Senior Member
 
codeman671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,856
Thanks: 143
Thanked 539 Times in 327 Posts
Default

It can be done. You are allowed a certain percentage of impact within the 50' setback. You would need to prepare a shoreland plan with DES, then go to the town for a variance. It is a lot of work.

FWIW, to add 4' to the front I'd consider just doing it.
codeman671 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to codeman671 For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (09-12-2021)
Old 09-07-2021, 11:09 AM   #12
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,272
Thanks: 1,512
Thanked 940 Times in 590 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman671 View Post
It can be done. You are allowed a certain percentage of impact within the 50' setback. You would need to prepare a shoreland plan with DES, then go to the town for a variance. It is a lot of work.

FWIW, to add 4' to the front I'd consider just doing it.
Adding anything to the outside of your home in this day and age is risky business without a permit.
I'm sure they can access any shoreline through Google Earth and see if there are any additions that were not performed with a permit, although I would think someone would have to bring it to their attention.
I'm building a new deck on the back of my house and I'm extending it out 5 more feet. I was just going to do it without a permit but I decided against it. It's not worth the risk, applied for a permit Thursday, $30.

Last edited by Biggd; 09-07-2021 at 11:42 AM.
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2021, 11:21 AM   #13
jazzman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Mont Vernon NH & Big Barndoor Island
Posts: 309
Thanks: 4
Thanked 180 Times in 58 Posts
Default

Really, I'd think a deck was a good thing. It takes all that water running off the roof and allows it to be dispersed slowly over a greater area of land. Nobody builds "impervious" decks.

I assume there is a lot of wiggle room for contractors who know what they're doing. I'm seeing breakwater extensions, wooden walkways/docks horizontal to the shoreline, good sized decks in the 50 foot buffer. All being done by big name local area contractors.
jazzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2021, 11:48 AM   #14
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,486
Thanks: 592
Thanked 1,141 Times in 780 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mercier View Post
Local code enforcer?
I would call DES... since they will issue the permit and any punishment for not following through.
I don't know where you live, but here the local code officer knows the state rules as well as the town rules. And it's a lot easier to get an answer from them than it is the state.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2021, 12:39 PM   #15
Onshore
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 499
Thanks: 12
Thanked 400 Times in 142 Posts
Default

If the enclosed living space of the residence is located behind the 50 foot primary building setback then any attached deck is prohibited from extending across the 50 foot setback. Timetraveler's suggestion of using a detached patio is legal (with a Shoreland permit) and commonly used. Granted it doesn't help if you have a second floor slider to nowhere...
Onshore is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Onshore For This Useful Post:
Descant (09-07-2021)
Old 09-07-2021, 02:13 PM   #16
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 104 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tis View Post
I don't know where you live, but here the local code officer knows the state rules as well as the town rules. And it's a lot easier to get an answer from them than it is the state.
Belmont.
But my uncle was the code officer for Moultonborough.
The code is always in debate. Better to go to the people that will be enforcing the requirement and bypass any debate.
John Mercier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2021, 02:26 PM   #17
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 104 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzman View Post
Really, I'd think a deck was a good thing. It takes all that water running off the roof and allows it to be dispersed slowly over a greater area of land. Nobody builds "impervious" decks.

I assume there is a lot of wiggle room for contractors who know what they're doing. I'm seeing breakwater extensions, wooden walkways/docks horizontal to the shoreline, good sized decks in the 50 foot buffer. All being done by big name local area contractors.
Yes. I get many requests for a system that keeps the space below a deck dry... just not many willing to pay the price.
John Mercier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2021, 02:31 PM   #18
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 104 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggd View Post
Adding anything to the outside of your home in this day and age is risky business without a permit.
I'm sure they can access any shoreline through Google Earth and see if there are any additions that were not performed with a permit, although I would think someone would have to bring it to their attention.
I'm building a new deck on the back of my house and I'm extending it out 5 more feet. I was just going to do it without a permit but I decided against it. It's not worth the risk, applied for a permit Thursday, $30.
The last time they tax accessed my property it was only exterior measurements, and they did it with an overflight. I expect with drones becoming more common, those overflights will get even cheaper.
John Mercier is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to John Mercier For This Useful Post:
Biggd (09-07-2021)
Old 09-07-2021, 03:20 PM   #19
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,272
Thanks: 1,512
Thanked 940 Times in 590 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mercier View Post
The last time they tax accessed my property it was only exterior measurements, and they did it with an overflight. I expect with drones becoming more common, those overflights will get even cheaper.
I had my roof done by a contractor back in Mass a few years ago as everyone I called locally told me they were 6 months out.
This Mass contractor gave me an estimate with a measurement of my roof from from Google earth. He had the materials delivered and a crew of 10 showed up and did it in a day, and they were a lot cheaper than all the local roof contractors.
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2021, 09:42 PM   #20
Heaven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 474
Thanks: 104
Thanked 89 Times in 63 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
I followed your very helpful link. It says no decks unless they are "designed to absorb or infiltrate water". Maybe another reader knows how to design a deck that will absorb or infiltrate...
Ok, I see what you read. . . I believe a "permeable" deck does "infiltrate" water. They want you to have spaces between the decking for water to slowly infiltrate through the deck. They DO NOT want you to have a "waterproof" deck or anything under the deck that keeps the water from flowing to the ground.
Heaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2021, 10:34 PM   #21
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 104 Posts
Default

Best to ask when seeking the permit.
Permeable might also mean steel grate decking or FlowThru.

Last edited by John Mercier; 09-08-2021 at 10:35 PM. Reason: Spelling correction
John Mercier is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to John Mercier For This Useful Post:
Heaven (09-10-2021)
Old 09-12-2021, 08:49 AM   #22
BroadHopper
Senior Member
 
BroadHopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH
Posts: 5,184
Thanks: 2,734
Thanked 994 Times in 704 Posts
Default A deck within 50'

A customer would like to add a deck to undeveloped property. Fortunately, the owner had a great site developer. He recommends adding a porous paver deck to the landscape and that works! DES and town would not allow a wood deck nor a paved deck. They were ok with porous pavers.

Another customer bought the property with an existing deck but no slip. Because of the lot size, he was not allowed a slip but was allowed a mooring ball. He has it set up so that the boat is tied to the deck and roped to the mooring ball. A neighbor complained and it was investigated. It was okay.

Both properties are in Tuftonboro.
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day.
BroadHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2021, 09:49 AM   #23
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 104 Posts
Default

They would still need the DES permit, and would have basically two options.

Rip the deck off the house and build a retaining wall for the two foot height of the patio, fill the retaining wall keeping proper drainage next to the houses foundation, and then add the cost of the pavers on top. If they left that grass, really wouldn't be any difference then going down on the existing flat lawn.

Leave the deck, build steps down, and place the patio on the flat lawn. Still requiring the permit.

The four foot ''landing'' exists most likely because either a sliding or swinging door exists on that side. They don't state that, but usually that is the case.
John Mercier is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to John Mercier For This Useful Post:
barsully (11-19-2021)
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.61441 seconds