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Old 09-07-2017, 03:33 PM   #1
WINNOCTURN
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Angry Ovsc announces major trail system closure!

OVSC ANNOUNCES MAJOR TRAIL SYSTEM CLOSURE!

Here is a link to SLedNH that most of "US" do not want to read.

Thanks to all you inconsiderate "BUMS" that refuse to "STAY ON THE TRAILS!

http://www.slednh.com/forums/index.p...comment-101667

Keep it up and we'll all be riding in Pittsburg!

Last edited by WINNOCTURN; 09-08-2017 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:27 PM   #2
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From the link that you provided, it does not seem this is the sole response from

you "Bastards" that refuse to "STAY ON THE TRAILS!

Take a breath before casting such a broad net over everyone.
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:44 PM   #3
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Late last winter I sat in a meeting with most of the clubs in the area to include OVSC. Our sole purpose was to brainstorm on how to keep people on trail- it is a huge problem exacerbated by paddle tracked mountain sleds needing to test their traction in powder. This particular trail was discussed and it was closed due to misuse.

Here in Moultonborough, we have to try to pull off two re-routes in town due to the same issues. 95% of trail closures are caused by people who refuse to obey the rules set forth by the landowners, club and F&G.

I volunteer my time because snowmobiling is good for our local economy. I do not like wasting my time apologizing to landowners, installing farm gates because people ride over snow fences, or trying to reroute trails.

Stay on trail or stay home

John Harrington
President, MSC
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:58 PM   #4
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Hope you guys are able to police the scofflaws and work this out with the landowners.

Of course, this is the same dynamic with boating on the lake. 95% of pilots are great responsible captains. 5% are rude, insensitive or otherwise out of bounds; and this causes landowners to want to clamp down on all.
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:01 PM   #5
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Hope you guys are able to police the scofflaws and work this out with the landowners.

Of course, this is the same dynamic with boating on the lake. 95% of pilots are great responsible captains. 5% are rude, insensitive or otherwise out of bounds; and this causes landowners to want to clamp down on all.
Thank you!
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:04 PM   #6
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Last year, with the help of a lot of members, on the weekends and during the week, we were able to cut and brush out a 2.7 mile trail before the snow came. This past spring we applied for a grant from the state to complete this trail, and were awarded the grant. I can’t thank you all enough for your time and hard work to make this happen.
Now I have to be the bearer of bad news. Over the past several weeks, we have been informed by two other landowners that they will be closing their property to future use next year. This is a big kick in the butt. This property would have been the continuation of that 2.7 mile reroute. Without access to this property, we would end up with a trail to nowhere.
I just do not get how this issue is a result of people not staying on the trails.
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:32 PM   #7
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I just do not get how this issue is a result of people not staying on the trails.
The initial reroute was due to landowner/ inconsiderate rider issues. I am not sure what happened to cause this latest closure but most landowners understand what it takes to open a new trail and do not give permission one year and take it away the next without good reason. On occasion, land is subdivided and we lose trails to house lots. However, as I noted earlier, trails loss is due to inconsiderate riders.
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by winnocturn View Post
ovsc announces major trail system closure!

here is a link to slednh that most of "us" do not want to read.

thanks to all you "bastards" that refuse to "stay on the trails!

http://www.slednh.com/forums/index.p...comment-101667

keep it up and we'll all be riding in pittsburg!
hay jack a@@ don't point the finger at people that ride sleds. Theres more to it then being told...
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:23 PM   #9
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hay jack a@@ don't point the finger at people that ride sleds. Theres more to it then being told...
George has been volunteering his time for decades to snowmobiling as well as riding. He may have worded it differently but...

If you know more of the story, please fill us in!
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:32 PM   #10
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hay jack a@@ don't point the finger at people that ride sleds. Theres more to it then being told...


So tell us "the more"


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Old 09-07-2017, 09:47 PM   #11
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George and John do a heck of a lot of work for snowmobiling in moultonboro as well as the state for those of you that don't know them. Heck John doesn't even ride! That said if you haven't attended meetings, off trail riding is becoming a big issue and if it continues we will see more trail closures in the future. Those of us that want to continue riding locally really need to get involved with clubs to address the issue and work to resolve it if it can be resolved.
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Old 09-08-2017, 07:47 AM   #12
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Thanks for all the hard work to make the trails great. I've been sledding in NH for two decades now but I'm new to Moultonborough and had a chance to use the trails for the firs time last winter. They were great. How can I help (besides becoming a member and staying on the trails which I do ?


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Old 09-08-2017, 08:01 AM   #13
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Default Landowners

As one of the landowners in Belknap County with a corridor running through my property as well as a sled head I can see both side of the story. I love clubs that allow multiple uses of the trail to XC skiers and sled dog hobbyists.

My biggest peeve is the ATVs as well as sleds that wander off the trails when there is insufficient snow cover and cause damage in the fields and woods.

Also the pollution such as beer cans, snack boxes etc. I strongly suggest carry in, carry out. There have been indications of human defecation!

The clubs do a commendable job of policing and addressing my concerns and I hate to be a PITA to the 90% that spends good money in the sport and close the trails.

Don't forget, it's not a freebie for landowners. We do help with maintenance and we do carry liability. The least trespassers can do is use common sense which is not too much to ask!
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Old 09-08-2017, 09:24 AM   #14
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This thread should not even have to exist! I don't know what is wrong with people. Why do some always have to ruin everything for the rest? We could substitute this for the rafting discussion.
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Old 09-08-2017, 04:28 PM   #15
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Unfortunately sooner or later snowmobiling in the lakes region is going to get difficult. Development and landowners not wanting to open there land are the major contributors to this.

I see it every year when I drive around... Clearly marked trails, and sled tracks that go way outside of those trails.

But NH is not alone in this, I see it in Vermont and Maine as well, both of which I visit often.

I understand why the OP, and Vita Bene are upset and tired of dealing with this stuff. They put tons of time in every year, so that people have a nice trail system. And then the "privileged" few, ride outside permitted areas. Unfortunately in this day and age, trying to police from with in doesn't work... A experienced considerate rider, may want to speak to uninformed "privileged" riders, but can't for fear of retaliation.

With that said this is no different then inconsiderate and "Privileged" boaters...

At the end of the day the "Privileged" few will ruin it for everyone...

I hope this is worded more Politically correct for some of you... As someone that has fought battles for the greater good, it is a thankless activity.... You find yourself emotionally attached to issues.... and when "Privileged" people screw it up, people should be allowed to come on forums like this and vent.
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Old 09-08-2017, 04:54 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
Unfortunately sooner or later snowmobiling in the lakes region is going to get difficult. Development and landowners not wanting to open there land are the major contributors to this.

I see it every year when I drive around... Clearly marked trails, and sled tracks that go way outside of those trails.

But NH is not alone in this, I see it in Vermont and Maine as well, both of which I visit often.

I understand why the OP, and Vita Bene are upset and tired of dealing with this stuff. They put tons of time in every year, so that people have a nice trail system. And then the "privileged" few, ride outside permitted areas. Unfortunately in this day and age, trying to police from with in doesn't work... A experienced considerate rider, may want to speak to uninformed "privileged" riders, but can't for fear of retaliation.

With that said this is no different then inconsiderate and "Privileged" boaters...

At the end of the day the "Privileged" few will ruin it for everyone...

I hope this is worded more Politically correct for some of you... As someone that has fought battles for the greater good, it is a thankless activity.... You find yourself emotionally attached to issues.... and when "Privileged" people screw it up, people should be allowed to come on forums like this and vent.
Well said L.I.! I couldn't agree more!

Unfortunately being an avid snowmobile enthusiast, I feel its more than just a few causing the problem. I feel this winter activity that I love has more than its fair share of irresponsible riders (I am being nice here!). It's certainly not "just a few".

One of the big issues Vita mentioned above..."mountain" or "off trail" sledding is gaining more and more popularity each year and with VERY limited places for this type of sledding to occur, riders take advantage when no one is looking. Going off trail through someones open field filled with fresh powdered snow or trying to climb some incline or breaking their own trail through the middle of someones private property. I see it almost every time I am on a trail.

I don't have the answer but do know we as snowmobiler's are our own worst enemy!!

Thanks to John H. and all the others who stay active in clubs and try their best to keep trails open for all of us. It must seem like a losing battle at times and I commend all of you!!

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Old 09-08-2017, 05:28 PM   #17
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George has been volunteering his time for decades to snowmobiling as well as riding. He may have worded it differently but...
He posted a link on a dedicated NH snowmobile site... of his nasty post on a Winnepasakee SUB-forum.

I read that thread.... nowhere did he have the courage to call the posters of that forum "bastards"

Also, from the link provided, it seems the property was closed to trails before it ever existed...
"
This property would have been the continuation of that 2.7 mile reroute."
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:08 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Outdoorsman View Post
He posted a link on a dedicated NH snowmobile site... of his nasty post on a Winnepasakee SUB-forum.

I read that thread.... nowhere did he have the courage to call the posters of that forum "bastards"

Also, from the link provided, it seems the property was closed to trails before it ever existed...
"
This property would have been the continuation of that 2.7 mile reroute."
From what I read you have a problem with people and maybe you could be one of the problem snow mobile riders as well. These people you attack (I know one of them and have been involved in another organization with them) you are putting down are light years ahead of you. They have given of themselves by volunteering and much more than you appear to have done. What have you done?.....nothing but complain it seems.
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Old 09-09-2017, 04:31 PM   #19
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From what I read you have a problem with people and maybe you could be one of the problem snow mobile riders as well. These people you attack (I know one of them and have been involved in another organization with them) you are putting down are light years ahead of you. They have given of themselves by volunteering and much more than you appear to have done. What have you done?.....nothing but complain it seems.
I have a problem with people that will come to THIS forum and call us "BASTARDS" but did not have the courage to do the same on the originating forum. It really is that simple.The attack began with the OP.

As far as you saying "These people you attack (I know one of them and have been involved in another organization with them) you are putting down are light years ahead of you."... You don't know me so your problem with me is null and void.

And finally
Quote:
What have you done?.....nothing but complain it seems.
Things are not always as they seem, are they?

Conservatively, I spend 6 days each fall going out on trail maintenance with my local club. I bring with me a 4-Wheeler, small trailer, asst tools and various scraps that may be useful for certain "repairs" whenever possible. Hell I bring along non-snowmobilers to help on occasion. Over the last 4 Years I have spent a total of about 14 hours out on the trails riding (life gets in the way) yet I register my sleds and join my local club regardless. I also donate to various club functions which helps generate funds.

What have I done? .... Tried to put in check this rude post from a fellow snowmobiler.

BTW, I have thanked this OP and VitaBene in past snowmobile related posts and I will thank them again. Not all eggs belong in the same basket!
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:36 AM   #20
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Outdoorsman, I think you might have misinterpreted the OP. He wasn't calling all of us "bastards" (now "bums"). He was really addressing the inconsiderate riders who can't stay on the trail. As you know, when people do not stay on the trail, in a lot of cases that upsets the owner of the land. If it keeps happening, the landowner shuts down access, which causes complete trail closures in a lot of cases.

As the recently retired president of a club in southern NH, I thank you for volunteering to help out your local club.
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:41 PM   #21
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Outdoorsman, I think you might have misinterpreted the OP. He wasn't calling all of us "bastards" (now "bums"). He was really addressing the inconsiderate riders who can't stay on the trail.
Thanks Chip. At least now I know I wasn't the only one who read it that way. This whole thread had me confused as that is the way I read the original post.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:40 PM   #22
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Thanks Chip. At least now I know I wasn't the only one who read it that way. This whole thread had me confused as that is the way I read the original post.
Chip, Merrymeeting THANKS!!!!!!

It's not only the "BUM" snowmobilers you can add on the "Bum" "ATV Riders" and "Bum" "Dirt Bickers" that cause the loss of "OUR" Trails.

We have lost 2 of our Trails this Season that have now given us 2 Trails to nowhere.

It seems to get harder each you to keep the system intact.

Does anyone know what the Average Age of a typical Saturday Trail Work "PARTY" is ?

"PARTY", is that really what it is a "PARTY"? Then why don't work People attend?

I have to Stop, I am starting to Ramble, don't know what may come off the Keyboard next?

Again, THANKS to ALL who knew what I tried to say.

WINNOCTURN


I wish Don had been able to find another "THANKS" Button!

SLedNH had the same problem with a revision in their Software but were able to find a replacement.

They read,

..............................Like .............Thanks............ Haha............Confused............Sad

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...1&d=1505164227
Attached Images
 

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Old 09-11-2017, 06:35 PM   #23
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Chip, Merrymeeting THANKS!!!!!!

It's not only the "BUM" snowmobilers you can add on the "Bum" "ATV Riders" and "Bum" "Dirt Bickers" that cause the loss of "OUR" Trails.

We have lost 2 of our Trails this Season that have now given us 2 Trails to nowhere.

It seems to get harder each you to keep the system intact.

Does any know what the Average Age of a typical Saturday Trail Work "PARTY" is ?

"PARTY", is that really what it is a "PARTY"? The why don't work People attend?

I have Stop, I am starting to Ramble, don't know what mat come off the Keyboard next?

Again, THANKS to ALL who knew what I tried to say.

WINNOCTURN


I wish Don had been able to find another "THANKS" Button!

SLedNH had the same problem with a revision in their Software but were able to find a replacement.

They read,

..............................Like .............Thanks............ Haha............Confused............Sad

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...1&d=1505164227
Thanks for what you do.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:55 AM   #24
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This thread should not even have to exist! I don't know what is wrong with people. Why do some always have to ruin everything for the rest? We could substitute this for the rafting discussion.
LIfeforrelaxin followed up with an explanation and a new term: "Privileged".

These are the people who ask,
"Don't you know who I am?"

("Beautiful People").

It's not just rafting issues: If there are new requirements for a mandatory 60-foot towrope, or a crackdown on horsepower-to-weight on boats, the reason can be laid at the feet of those who consider themselves "Privileged". For example:

A white Donzi who screams into Winter Harbor—uses tubers and skiers as his personal slalom course—while racing at 75-MPH comes to mind.

Wakesetters who can't keep to the center of bays, coves, and harbors can join the ranks of Beautiful People as well.

A rare NHMP stationary checkpoint this past weekend followed this latest SL scofflaw abomination.

24-hours late!

.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:15 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApS View Post
LIfeforrelaxin followed up with an explanation and a new term: "Privileged".

These are the people who ask,
"Don't you know who I am?"

("Beautiful People").

It's not just rafting issues: If there are new requirements for a mandatory 60-foot towrope, or a crackdown on horsepower-to-weight on boats, the reason can be laid at the feet of those who consider themselves "Privileged". For example:

A white Donzi who screams into Winter Harbor—uses tubers and skiers as his personal slalom course—while racing at 75-MPH comes to mind.

Wakesetters who can't keep to the center of bays, coves, and harbors can join the ranks of Beautiful People as well.

A rare NHMP stationary checkpoint this past weekend followed this latest SL scofflaw abomination.

24-hours late!

.
Titling your post "It's all about ME" and then proceeding to take over a snowmobile thread with your personal platform about the evils of everyone in the Winter Harbor area is perfect.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:53 AM   #26
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Like the playground bully we have all known, attacks those he disagrees with on a personal level because he is so insecure and unhappy with his own life that he attempts to tear people down to make himself feel better about his situation. He uses words in place of fists, but the intent is the same. I refuse to get upset over what he writes. Instead I pity him as I think all his readers should. Imagine living such an unhappy life as he.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:36 PM   #27
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Neckdweller, though ApS's post was a bit abstract, it captured the fundamental point that many of us have noted. In contrast to your claim that it's "everyone in Winter Harbor", many of us believe it is an inconsiderate minority of sledders and boat captains causing the problems that lead to more restrictions. At their heart, these issues are identical, regardless of vehicle.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:14 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by chipj29 View Post
Outdoorsman, I think you might have misinterpreted the OP. He wasn't calling all of us "bastards" (now "bums"). He was really addressing the inconsiderate riders who can't stay on the trail. As you know, when people do not stay on the trail, in a lot of cases that upsets the owner of the land. If it keeps happening, the landowner shuts down access, which causes complete trail closures in a lot of cases.

As the recently retired president of a club in southern NH, I thank you for volunteering to help out your local club.
Hey Chip, they let you retire (thanks for volunteering!)?? No such luck for me! I enjoy it, but some days...
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:17 PM   #29
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Conservatively, I spend 6 days each fall going out on trail maintenance with my local club. I bring with me a 4-Wheeler, small trailer, asst tools and various scraps that may be useful for certain "repairs" whenever possible. Hell I bring along non-snowmobilers to help on occasion. Over the last 4 Years I have spent a total of about 14 hours out on the trails riding (life gets in the way) yet I register my sleds and join my local club regardless. I also donate to various club functions which helps generate funds.

What have I done? .... Tried to put in check this rude post from a fellow snowmobiler.

BTW, I have thanked this OP and VitaBene in past snowmobile related posts and I will thank them again. Not all eggs belong in the same basket!
Outdoorsman- thank you for volunteering

I always say that if just 1/3 of (pick a club) members came out for 5 hours a year, we would be all set! You have done more than your part.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:32 AM   #30
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Hey Chip, they let you retire (thanks for volunteering!)?? No such luck for me! I enjoy it, but some days...
Yup, it was close though...lol
Our club has term limits for officers. I served 2 2-year terms. Then the club voted to relax that rule so I could then serve years 5 & 6.

6 years was enough. Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun, and I like to think that I was able to help the club improve during my term. But it was time for me to let the next generation take over.

And thanks to YOU for also volunteering!
Like every volunteer organization, getting volunteers was the hardest part about the job. I imagine it always will be.
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