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Old 04-29-2019, 07:39 AM   #1
Lakegeezer
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Default The ironic futility of aggressive bubbling

This guy ran his bubbler 24x7 all winter. In the early spring, it melted all the way across the narrows and downwind by about 1/4 mile. As the ice started to break up, a north wind came up, pushing the southern extent of the open water even more to the south. The birds loved it. Ducks, geese and near the end, even a loon pair were swimming in the large artificial lake. Then came the southern winds. The pool of open water let the ice flow build up momentum, but it was stopped by the ice pack to the north of bubbler. "What dock?" said the ice as it ironically ground up the dock that the guy was trying to protect.
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:49 AM   #2
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Ouch! I feel for the dock owner. Perhaps the next option will be a crank up dock. We made the transition several years ago, and Lakegeezer's photo reinforces the wisdom of the transition, despite the initial cost and less attractive view in the winter.
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Old 04-29-2019, 09:22 AM   #3
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Default pain

Lakegeezer, I know your pain. I was there two years ago. Thankfully, I have a neighbor who just couldn.t resist the challenge and helped me make repairs (actually he did most of the work) I was blessed.
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Old 04-29-2019, 10:40 AM   #4
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Hell's bells ....... he would-a been-a a-better off-a with-a one-a- those-a heavy, heavy ice choppers that costs about 20-dollars ...... and just a-waited for the ice sheet to move in ..... driven by the wind ...... and simply chop it up as it moves forward ...... is so simple to do .....in April when the ice goes soft ...... chop-chop-chop .....until the adjacent forward edge pushes up against the land which stops forward motion .... and your dock is not damaged ..... safe within its' little pocket of chopped ice!


. ...... one small step for a man ...... one giant step for mankind ...... you done gone and saved that there dock ..... with an ice chopper! You just got to be there ....... with an attitude .... and an ice chopper ..... when the ice makes its' move. ...
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Old 04-29-2019, 01:11 PM   #5
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There's the proof Bubblers won't save your dock.
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Old 04-29-2019, 01:50 PM   #6
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That's ROUGH. Would not having bubblers have helped in that scenario, or would the ice movement have done as much/more damage?
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:06 PM   #7
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That's ROUGH. Would not having bubblers have helped in that scenario, or would the ice movement have done as much/more damage?
Here is the thing, you are damned if you do, damned if you don't....

Bubbler's and Thermal Ice prevention, save your dock from getting ice in and around it. Lets call this Problem A, thus when the ice breaks up and starts moving around, your dock is not going to try and go with it...

However Problem B at ice-out is far more damaging. Once the ice is broken up and moving around with the wind. Ice burgs start moving, and don't stop moving until something prevents them from doing so... In a strong wind they pick up great momentum... Notice not speed momentum which in this case is not friendly. If your dock is in the way, it is either going to stop the momentum, or not..(most times not).... Sometimes the damage is minor, because the dock is able to help stop the ice to a greater degree. Other times there is to much momentum in the moving ice, and it justs mows over the dock, like a lawn mower over grass!!!!!!

Things like Cribs under docks, pylons driven into the lake bed, etc. can help... however over time, they fail as well, and need maintance. Also if the wind and ice come from an unexpected direction, pylons can be absolutely ineffective...

Ahhhhh the fun of ice... even articulating docks, can have issues with the ice. We have a few on our road... I have seen problems including ineffective blocks to hold them in place, to ice piling up against the blocks, and forced up into the frame bending it and causing damage.

Bottom line, the ice is no ones friend when it is breaking up... I have learned to fix things from her damage... but every spring... I go up to the lake after iceout, with an open mind... hoping for the best, but being ready for the worst.....
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:13 PM   #8
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Here is the thing, you are damned if you do, damned if you don't....

Bubbler's and Thermal Ice prevention, save your dock from getting ice in and around it. Lets call this Problem A, thus when the ice breaks up and starts moving around, your dock is not going to try and go with it...

However Problem B at ice-out is far more damaging. Once the ice is broken up and moving around with the wind. Ice burgs start moving, and don't stop moving until something prevents them from doing so... In a strong wind they pick up great momentum... Notice not speed momentum which in this case is not friendly. If your dock is in the way, it is either going to stop the momentum, or not..(most times not).... Sometimes the damage is minor, because the dock is able to help stop the ice to a greater degree. Other times there is to much momentum in the moving ice, and it justs mows over the dock, like a lawn mower over grass!!!!!!

Things like Cribs under docks, pylons driven into the lake bed, etc. can help... however over time, they fail as well, and need maintance. Also if the wind and ice come from an unexpected direction, pylons can be absolutely ineffective...

Ahhhhh the fun of ice... even articulating docks, can have issues with the ice. We have a few on our road... I have seen problems including ineffective blocks to hold them in place, to ice piling up against the blocks, and forced up into the frame bending it and causing damage.

Bottom line, the ice is no ones friend when it is breaking up... I have learned to fix things from her damage... but every spring... I go up to the lake after iceout, with an open mind... hoping for the best, but being ready for the worst.....
Gotcha. So it sounds like the only real *reliable* solution is to have a removable dock? When considering installation, how much more money does a removable/liftable dock cost over a standard wood/permanent one? Or is it less about money and more about setup/access?
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:31 PM   #9
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Gotcha. So it sounds like the only real *reliable* solution is to have a removable dock? When considering installation, how much more money does a removable/liftable dock cost over a standard wood/permanent one? Or is it less about money and more about setup/access?
That is hard to say, it really depends on the configuration. Typically a 6x30' piling dock is cheaper to build than a 6x40' seasonal crank up, but harder to permit. These are the standard sizes allowed under normal conditions. You can go longer on the seasonal. I am going to guess 25% more to go with the seasonal (based on a standard crank up, not a pipe dock).
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:40 PM   #10
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www.greatnortherndocks.com/about-us/ in Naples, Maine is the closest dock store with an outdoor yard piled deep with seasonal aluminum docks, where you can go load up the truck or trailer, and return with a dock project.

For the do-it-yourselfer, dock installer, seems like Naples, Maine is the place to go. So much for tax free NH when it comes to aluminum, seasonal docks? It sure seems it would be great to actually see it, before you buy it, as is the case with buying a dock on-line and getting it delivered via freight. Plus a dock store probably has close-out and seasonal mark downs.

www.centerharbordocks.com is more about custom made, big money projects, which they install, although it is a good local place to buy single dock repair items and pieces, after your seasonal dock gets ice crunched and you is fixing it.
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Old 04-29-2019, 03:19 PM   #11
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I recommend Center Harbor Docks. They did a good job of designing and installing a crank-up dock for us for a reasonable price. It would be a very unusual homeowner who could do this by himself.
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Old 04-29-2019, 03:44 PM   #12
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Default ..... where's that dock store?

Yes, it certainly would be a big challenging project to install my own crank-up dock ..... something I would not be doing.

My interest is the seasonal aluminum frame dock with the removable wood or pvc sections which by design makes it easier to remove or install as it weighs less, when removed in pieces like this. No crank-up involved, just a 30' x 5', three section, in relatively shallow 3-5' depth plus a 10' gangway down ramp.

Am looking for a dock store somewhere, where I can go window shopping, get a discontinued deal or something, load up the trailer, and drive it back to Meredith?

There's got to be a NH version, somewhere in Concord, Manchester, Nashua, Rochester or somewhere that's a business with an outside yard full of docks, similar to the place in Naples, Maine? Naples seems to be about 90-minutes from Meredith, so maybe Naples is the place to go? Maine has their 5 1/2% sales tax, and it simply goes against my religion to be paying it ..... but, nevah say never! .... installing a Maine purchased and sales taxed dock into Lake Winnipesaukee seems very unusual? One has to be rational! ...
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Old 04-29-2019, 05:04 PM   #13
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Yes, it certainly would be a big challenging project to install my own crank-up dock ..... something I would not be doing.

My interest is the seasonal aluminum frame dock with the removable wood or pvc sections which by design makes it easier to remove or install as it weighs less, when removed in pieces like this. No crank-up involved, just a 30' x 5', three section, in relatively shallow 3-5' depth plus a 10' gangway down ramp.

Am looking for a dock store somewhere, where I can go window shopping, get a discontinued deal or something, load up the trailer, and drive it back to Meredith?

There's got to be a NH version, somewhere in Concord, Manchester, Nashua, Rochester or somewhere that's a business with an outside yard full of docks, similar to the place in Naples, Maine? Naples seems to be about 90-minutes from Meredith, so maybe Naples is the place to go? Maine has their 5 1/2% sales tax, and it simply goes against my religion to be paying it ..... but, nevah say never! .... installing a Maine purchased and sales taxed dock into Lake Winnipesaukee seems very unusual?
These guys were at the boat show in Bedford this past spring. From what I looked at.... if you want an actual dock to tie a boat to you'd need to get their premium version which after everything is all said and done price wise is not that much cheaper than a crank up when looking at a standard 6' X 40'. Personally I don't like having metal/pipe posts. That said the heavy duty docks they had on display were well made and seemed pretty rugged. The synthetic decking is really nice.

If you opt for the feather light design, they are more or less something you put a chair on and not anything you can tie a boat to. I didn't even bother to ask about pricing on those because it's simply not a viable solution for a boat to be tied to unless it's dead calm.

Sorry to say FLL you get what you pay for. Far as them selling and installing docks in NH, they said they do it all the time.
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Old 04-29-2019, 05:28 PM   #14
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For the boat, I have a 10' x 10' boat lift that weighs 450-lbs and has never-ever been moved by the wave action, and is basically what holds my antique aluminum dock in its' spot, against the large incoming waves and weekend wakes. So's a new lightweight all aluminum dock with take-out deck pieces that simply sits on the sandy bottom will work. It will support a 100-lb canoe or something like a kayak that's dragged onto it.

I use a 5-gal pvc bucket loaded with concrete, that weighs about 250-lbs as a dead weight, on the dock, down the end, to help keep it from moving with the waves .... and it all works ..... totally perfect.

The weekend waves here are big, bad, and constant ..... so's most everyone has a boat lift. I like the big waves for kayak, row boat, sup, and swimming.

www.bmp-inc.com/ ..... located in up-state New York ..... worth a look-see? "The easiest aluminum docks at the lowest prices" ..... sounds like my last girl friend! ... ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWqMKcG855g
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Old 04-29-2019, 05:59 PM   #15
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In your case maybe a light duty dock would be fine, how much of a cost savings that equates to is unknown.

Guess you won't know for sure unless you call around and get some prices.

Now if you were really looking for a deal just go buy yourself a few old snowmobile trailers off craigslist and make your own dock. I bet you could even make some custom bumpers from your extensive noodle collection. Just think of the possibilities - you'd have a dock that would be the envy of all your neighbors.
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:59 PM   #16
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That's ROUGH. Would not having bubblers have helped in that scenario, or would the ice movement have done as much/more damage?
Like a neighbor's dock, the pictured dock is on a point of land; as a consequence, the neighbor's piling dock gets smashed every year. It does, however, get a near-instant repair by June.

Last season, their entire dock was afloat, but got tied to their shore before it became a boating hazard. It was in such good condition, I thought it was going to be used again—but FLL wasn't there in time to salvage it, so it got hauled off. That is, excepting one huge cross member which floated into Winter Harbor. That spar was repurposed in a repair to our own dock. (Pictures to follow).

In spite of bubblers/circulators, our dock gets a piling or two pushed out from under the "working" part of the dock—maybe twice every decade. A Farm Jack is utilized to put things right. (Pictures and still more dock repair links at this link).

Our piling dock is saved every spring by a next door neighbor who pulls his 30-foot dock totally out of the water. Because winter ice is tightly bound to the shoreline between us, ice floes are limited in the damage they can do. However, at our location, a south wind—followed by a north wind—can create a 1-mile-wide battering ram.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:00 AM   #17
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Default ..... Rand's Hdwe for aluminum repair parts

In case you was wondering the www.tractorsupply.com/ retail stores in Tilton and Plymouth have like three different sizes of these big farm jacks, good for jacking up a dock or a John Deere tractor, as long as it is brite green & yellow!

Tractor supply is another place to go for dock repair items.

Rands Hardware in Plymouth recently got in about twelve running feet of aluminum, steel, and galvanized steel ..... all large displays with many different angles, tubes, flats, squares in 2-3-4-6' lengths ..... the aluminum is what's used on docks ..... big inventory .... big prices, too ..... but they got the stuff .... down the basement. Is not a thrift store, or a yard sale ... good coffee for 50-cents.

Way to go, RAND'S HDWE!
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:25 AM   #18
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Default Takes a Licking.......

As discussed in posts in previous years, a circulator or a bubbler helps to keep ice from pushing against a dock, but one can only hope that the wind is blowing away from the dock when the ice breaks up. 🐻
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:39 AM   #19
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Default Rules for Ice bubblers?

Sorry if this is already asked/posted somewhere....

What are the rules for ice bubblers? Can you run them 24x7 all year round?

Seems there should be requirements for timers or temperature controls. Some of our neighbors run them constantly even after the ice is melted in our bay. Like the description of this person above, there was a huge swath of open water most of the winter and early spring.

Makes it unsafe for ice fishermen and others that want to enjoy the ice.
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Old 04-30-2019, 09:15 AM   #20
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Sorry if this is already asked/posted somewhere....

What are the rules for ice bubblers? Can you run them 24x7 all year round?

Seems there should be requirements for timers or temperature controls. Some of our neighbors run them constantly even after the ice is melted in our bay. Like the description of this person above, there was a huge swath of open water most of the winter and early spring.

Makes it unsafe for ice fishermen and others that want to enjoy the ice.
Why would someone want to run them year round? They are not cheap to run, my assumption is if someone is running them after ice is out they either haven't been up to take them out or are being very lazy....

Mine add probably $100-150 per month, for 2 units, to my bill, and that is while using timers and thermostats (not running 24/7).
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Old 04-30-2019, 02:15 PM   #21
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Gotcha. So it sounds like the only real *reliable* solution is to have a removable dock? When considering installation, how much more money does a removable/liftable dock cost over a standard wood/permanent one? Or is it less about money and more about setup/access?
After some 20 years, last year my crank up dock was damaged. I believe it was caught by a wind gust which bent the frame where it is anchored to the landing. Redid the weld and it's fine. Biggest problem was finding a portable welder with long enough leads to get to the dock.
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Old 04-30-2019, 02:46 PM   #22
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I recommend Center Harbor Docks. They did a good job of designing and installing a crank-up dock for us for a reasonable price. It would be a very unusual homeowner who could do this by himself.
This is a huge mis-conception. Your right your average home owner is not going to build an aluminum crank-up seasonal dock. But if you travel around the lake you will find older versions made out of wood, that worked very well for ages. It is really not the actually building of the dock that is the problem, unless you want it made out of metal.

What scares most homeowners is the permitting process, and then of course wanting the convenience of having it instantly ready for them.

My articulating dock, was made by the previous homeowner, and has been maintained by me... We have even made it longer, at one point with the entire dock articulating and folding back on itself. However it wasn't easier then having the bulk of it articulating, and having a section or two that can go in when the water is warmer to get it into deeper water. So now I have a section that winches down in the spring... and once the water gets warm, two more sections that can go in to help with water depth under the boat.... All is very legal, and grandfathered.... The key here is it is made out of wood... so it is easy to maintain and repair... unlike the aluminum versions, which require more exotic means to repair when damaged.
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:00 PM   #23
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This is a huge mis-conception. Your right your average home owner is not going to build an aluminum crank-up seasonal dock. But if you travel around the lake you will find older versions made out of wood, that worked very well for ages. It is really not the actually building of the dock that is the problem, unless you want it made out of metal.

What scares most homeowners is the permitting process, and then of course wanting the convenience of having it instantly ready for them.

My articulating dock, was made by the previous homeowner, and has been maintained by me... We have even made it longer, at one point with the entire dock articulating and folding back on itself. However it wasn't easier then having the bulk of it articulating, and having a section or two that can go in when the water is warmer to get it into deeper water. So now I have a section that winches down in the spring... and once the water gets warm, two more sections that can go in to help with water depth under the boat.... All is very legal, and grandfathered.... The key here is it is made out of wood... so it is easy to maintain and repair... unlike the aluminum versions, which require more exotic means to repair when damaged.
I've thought of doing this very thing but the weight is what has me concerned. Even with removable decking, the actual framework and pilings are going to be pretty darn heavy and keep suspended over the winter. How long a section are you lifting out?
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:23 PM   #24
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Default ..... Jack Dock on Ebay

Ebay has 48" x 96" x 12" aluminum docks for $400-each when you buy 3-5 dock sections, shipping included from somewhere in Minnesota .... not too shabby!

Made by JACK DOCK and with getting it shipped to a NH address, there is no dreaded sales tax ..... score a big one for NH!

At $400/section with shipping and no sales tax, these prices are getting real.

Do they have a compound complex fold-out dock system where you can unfold it out while seated in your lazy boy recliner with the touch of a remote ...... zap?

www.jackdocks.com/
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:14 PM   #25
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I’m always perplexed by the number of permanent docks on Winnipesaukee. There are very few of them here on Sebago, a very similar large lake with an area of open water that far eclipses the Broads. 98% of docks are removed for the winter.

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Old 05-01-2019, 05:18 AM   #26
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Interesting how Naples, Maine, very close to Lake Segago, is home to the Great Northern Docks business, which has a yard full of seasonal aluminum docks there, and is maybe geared toward the do-it-yourself, dock home owner?

Lake Winnipesaukee and New Hampshire doesn't have a similar business where there's a yard full of docks awaiting to get purchased and hauled away.

Oh well ..... one of this state's mysteries ...... like, why not ..... where's the dock business?
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:37 AM   #27
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Interesting how Naples, Maine, very close to Lake Segago, is home to the Great Northern Docks business, which has a yard full of seasonal aluminum docks there, and is maybe geared toward the do-it-yourself, dock home owner?

Lake Winnipesaukee and New Hampshire doesn't have a similar business where there's a yard full of docks awaiting to get purchased and hauled away.

Oh well ..... one of this state's mysteries ...... like, why not ..... where's the dock business?
There is a dock manufacturer on route 4 in Northwood (EZ Docks) as well as Dyers in Nottingham. I bought a set of stairs from EZ last year that were well made and cheaper than the stuff locally. There are dealers in the area that sell for Great Northern as well.
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:21 AM   #28
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Arrow Eclipsing the Broads?

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I’m always perplexed by the number of permanent docks on Winnipesaukee. There are very few of them here on Sebago, a very similar large lake with an area of open water that far eclipses the Broads. 98% of docks are removed for the winter. BT
I think the answer lies in "open water" of ice.

That larger battering-ram of ice would shift direction with every change of wind, taking every dock out.
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:30 AM   #29
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FWM Docks in Hudson NH makes a quality aluminum dock but they aren't cheap. Not a place FLL will shop though.
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:38 AM   #30
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I've thought of doing this very thing but the weight is what has me concerned. Even with removable decking, the actual framework and pilings are going to be pretty darn heavy and keep suspended over the winter. How long a section are you lifting out?
Maxum,

My total dock length when everything is in the water is 38 ft. I have a six foot and 8 foot section that don't winch up... so 14 feet of true season dock.... Which leaves 24 feet of articulating dock... (yes I had to do the calculations to figure it all out)....

Now I feel that the previous owner way over did the construction, he used 4X8 beams, all tied together at several points with 2x8s.... If I where to rebuild it (and a couple of times I thought I was going to needed too...) I would probably build it all with 2x8s, and reinforce the two main beams with with 2x6, so that I could recess the decking.... and lighten the load some....

The 2 true seasonal sections are just your standard 2x6 dock construction...

The cement block is fairly hefty... and has several rocks in it. (I know because I new the previous owner)... and he simply used a 2" steel pipe through the block as his hinge point...

This dock is now some 25 years old.... it has a few bumps and scrapes, but is strong as ever....

Along with the floor boards, I do also take off the inner legs... so they don't get caught in the ice... Additionally, all corners of the articulating section are re-inforced with steel corner brackets, to add some rigidity, especailly when the assembly is in the air.....

If we can work out a convenient time, you are more the welcome to come over and take a look....
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:43 AM   #31
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I think the answer lies in "open water" of ice.

That larger battering-ram of ice would shift direction with every change of wind, taking every dock out.
For once I don't disagree with APS....

Sebago is a lot more open, and the ice as it breaks up, has a lot of room to roam...

However even with that said, Like Blue Thunder I am surprised at how many permanent docks their are on Winnipesaukee... While at times I am jealous of the convenience, with the options or articulating docks, and seasons docks, I don't think that Permanent docks are a smart idea.... But because insurance companies will insure them, and thus cover the costs of repair... well there you go....

anyway, enough .... Did I really agree with APS?!?!?!?!!?!
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Old 05-01-2019, 11:17 AM   #32
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Default Double edge sword

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For once I don't disagree with APS....

Sebago is a lot more open, and the ice as it breaks up, has a lot of room to roam...

However even with that said, Like Blue Thunder I am surprised at how many permanent docks their are on Winnipesaukee... While at times I am jealous of the convenience, with the options or articulating docks, and seasons docks, I don't think that Permanent docks are a smart idea.... But because insurance companies will insure them, and thus cover the costs of repair... well there you go....

anyway, enough .... Did I really agree with APS?!?!?!?!!?!
Insurance companies may cover damage to a permanent dock, but that is a double edged sword. One loss ok, multiple losses, say goodbye to your insurance policy; frequency of claims and/or excessive high claim cost. (Don't shoot me or yell at me just because I was an underwriter in personal lines insurance)

Seasonal docks, less susceptible to major damage. Better risk.

Dave
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:01 PM   #33
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Insurance companies may cover damage to a permanent dock, but that is a double edged sword. One loss ok, multiple losses, say goodbye to your insurance policy; frequency of claims and/or excessive high claim cost. (Don't shoot me or yell at me just because I was an underwriter in personal lines insurance)

Seasonal docks, less susceptible to major damage. Better risk.

Dave
I, too was a part of personal lines insurance (sales) for 25 years., Docks were excluded from ice damage in homeowner policies. I went on to other things 20 years ago, so maybe things have changed, but I doubt it. I agree with Upthesaukee's summary. If you had ice damage covered by insurance, I'd be interested to know when, what company, the type of policy, and what happened at renewal time. Personal experience only, please, not "my neighbor said".
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Old 05-02-2019, 06:05 AM   #34
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As far as I know insurance does not cover docks. Mine got taken out big time about 5 years ago and had some minor damage this year. Every season I just cross my fingers and hope the wind stays calm. My old house had the crank up docks and they were great as far as staying safe from the ice. One reason I would not change back is my new house has a grandfathered permanent dock setup that while always at risk of getting hit is big and wide and much nicer than anything I could get in a crank up.
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Old 05-02-2019, 06:20 AM   #35
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Lightbulb Thoughts on a Hybrid Dock...

If I were to replace my piling dock, I'd make it articulated as well.

I'd previously described a two-section hybrid dock, here and here, but my new hybrid design would have three sections.

The innermost section would be on pilings, because the lake is low when the ice is exerting its greatest pressure—plus, those pilings can be driven deeper. (Our hefty innermost pilings haven't moved in 30+ years).

The outermost aluminum section would fold into an "L" with the middle section, Then reattach the cable and pull the two sections into a triangle atop the first section. Then bolted securely against winter winds, like so ——/\

This design also reduces the exposure to a lightning strike.

Starting with a boom and a jack, I'm still working on the mechanisms needed to unfold it.

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I think the answer lies in "open water" of ice. That larger battering-ram of ice would shift direction with every change of wind, taking every dock out.
...later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
For once I don't disagree with APS....Sebago is a lot more open, and the ice as it breaks up, has a lot of room to roam...
However even with that said, Like Blue Thunder I am surprised at how many permanent docks their are on Winnipesaukee... While at times I am jealous of the convenience, with the options or articulating docks, and seasons docks, I don't think that Permanent docks are a smart idea.... But because insurance companies will insure them, and thus cover the costs of repair... well there you go....anyway, enough .... Did I really agree with APS?!?!?!?!!?!
I must be wrong.

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Old 05-02-2019, 08:54 AM   #36
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Hey APS ..... what about your neighbors having to look at that ugly monstrosity with two dock sections sticking up in the air, all the off-season, November to April .... is so ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly, and more ugly .... CLUTTERS and IMPINGES their precious view to the lake!

.............

Here's an interesting dock item at what seems like a reasonable price:

http://www.jackdocks.com/free-standi...it-p/10930.htm ..... just $50 .... from Harris, Minnesota ..... the middle of no where .... for the do-it-yourself dock owner .... who is thrifty like me ..... seems like a reasonable price ... $50?

Wonder about the quality? And, this 50-dollar price seems like very reasonable to me for all it includes?
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Old 05-02-2019, 03:10 PM   #37
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Hey APS ..... what about your neighbors having to look at that ugly monstrosity with two dock sections sticking up in the air, all the off-season, November to April .... is so ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly, and more ugly .... CLUTTERS and IMPINGES their precious view to the lake!

.............

Here's an interesting dock item at what seems like a reasonable price:

http://www.jackdocks.com/free-standi...it-p/10930.htm ..... just $50 .... from Harris, Minnesota ..... the middle of no where .... for the do-it-yourself dock owner .... who is thrifty like me ..... seems like a reasonable price ... $50?

Wonder about the quality? And, this 50-dollar price seems like very reasonable to me for all it includes?
Sometimes we just can't avoid seeing ugly!
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Old 05-02-2019, 06:25 PM   #38
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I see what you did!!!
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