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Old 10-17-2011, 08:57 AM   #1
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Default Lowe's Home Improvement Stores - NH

Most likely in my humble opinion, the Lowe's-Gilford will not be suffering the same fate as the Lowe's-Manchester. Today's Union Leader has a headline article http://www.unionleader.com/article/2...WS02/710179959 on the closing of the Lowe's down in Manchester. It just seems to me that the deep strength of the lakes region's home maintenance, repairs, up-grades, and remodeling will keep the Lowe's-Gilford open and operating as a very happy store.

The Gilford Lowe's is an incredibly good store for a long list of reasons that includes their freebie coffee in a cheapie foam cup, and I would truly hate to ever see it get closed down. Three cheers for the Lowe's in Gilford!
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:34 AM   #2
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The Lowes in Gilford has no competition as far as I can see so they'll probably be fine. I hope they don't close... the thought of having to go down to the Tilton Home Depot every time I need something is too terrifying to think about.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:56 AM   #3
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Having lived in Manchester most of my life and visiting home improvement stoers like HD and Lowes on a regular basis,I actually forgot that Lowes had a store in Manchester.You know what they say about location?Bad one for that one.The Hooksett one had a great traffic and highway access but was located on top of a giant wall they built.Not passerby traffic friendly at all.The Bedford one is built the same.I tend to stay away from both of those I guess for that reason.
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:13 PM   #4
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According to this morning's news, the Biddeford store was also closed last night.
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:38 PM   #5
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As well as the Haverhill, MA store
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:47 PM   #6
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list of all stores being closed.

http://investor.shareholder.com/lowe...&openNews=true
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:27 PM   #7
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Default Lowes CEO Quote

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"Closing stores is never easy, given the impact on hard-working employees and local communities," said Robert A. Niblock, chairman, president and CEO. "However, we have an obligation to make tough decisions when necessary to improve profitability and strengthen our financial position."
Not to get political or anything , but I think this is really sad. I work for a publically traded company and have seen colleagues laid off so the company can improve the bottom line for shareholders. These were colleagues with little kids to raise.

Three NH stores are closing. I feel for the employees and families who are affected.

Wondering...was there ever a time in our history when companies said "while we may not have been as profitable as we like this past year, we wanted to keep our employees working...it was the right thing to do."
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:43 PM   #8
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Not to get political or anything , but I think this is really sad. I work for a publically traded company and have seen colleagues laid off so the company can improve the bottom line for shareholders. These were colleagues with little kids to raise.

Three NH stores are closing. I feel for the employees and families who are affected.

Wondering...was there ever a time in our history when companies said "while we may not have been as profitable as we like this past year, we wanted to keep our employees working...it was the right thing to do."
I too don't want to turn this into an OCCUPY WINNIPESAUKEE thread but companies are in business to turn a profit. Shareholders have the right to expect that the board of directors and mangement at a company they invest their money into to protect their investment. Investors have children to feed, or retirement income they expect to live on too.

I'm sure some companies do the "right thing", as you say. But it is more difficult for a public company to ignore the shareholders. If you want an example of a company (single owner) with a heart, there was factory in Mass. I believe that burned down several years ago. The owner kept all the employees on the payroll while the factory was being rebuilt. Perhaps someone can find the company I am talking about and post it.
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Old 10-17-2011, 05:17 PM   #9
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The company that burned was Malden Mills in Methuen, Mass. The owner was Aaron Feuerstein. Click below for the story:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNL9xIiwB1E

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malden_Mills

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Old 10-17-2011, 05:50 PM   #10
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Default store closings

Who Is next? In case you havent noticed There is a trend happening all accross the country. company after company is closing. we had all better lear how to speak chinese.

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Old 10-17-2011, 06:14 PM   #11
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Who Is next? In case you havent noticed There is a trend happening all accross the country. company after company is closing. we had all better lear how to speak chinese.

all the predictions of 2012 are coming true sad to say but we all should take note of what is going on? not saying nobody is "paying attention" however the facts are terrifying.
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:01 PM   #12
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Default The numbers

The Hooksett store was losing money and the Manchester store was barely breaking even. I can understand closing the Hooksett store but I would have expected them to keep the Manchester store operating with the hope that the economy would pick up and it would become profitable in the future.

The Gilford store does about 25% more business than the Manchester store did and is not on the chopping block.
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:16 PM   #13
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The company that burned was Malden Mills in Methuen, Mass. The owner was Aaron Feuerstein. Click below for the story:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNL9xIiwB1E

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malden_Mills
Mr Feuerstein's plan was not successful as he ultimately drove the company into bankruptcy (not once but actually twice). I believe another outfit picked up the pieces the second time and it is operating as a smaller organization with different management, new capital, etc. Unfortunately, companies that don't cut expenses when faced with adversity often find themselves bankrupt.
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:46 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post

The Gilford Lowe's is an incredibly good store for a long list of reasons that includes their freebie coffee in a cheapie foam cup, and I would truly hate to ever see it get closed down. Three cheers for the Lowe's in Gilford!
Ok we are in Gilford Lowe's quite often, well not normally more than 3 time a week, but never noticed the free coffee. We will have to look for it in the morning after coming in from Welch. We must need some screws or something.
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:58 PM   #15
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Mr Feuerstein's plan was not successful as he ultimately drove the company into bankruptcy (not once but actually twice). I believe another outfit picked up the pieces the second time and it is operating as a smaller organization with different management, new capital, etc. Unfortunately, companies that don't cut expenses when faced with adversity often find themselves bankrupt.
Thank you for following up on the story secondcurve! I didn't know about the final outcome. It just supports my position even further. If Mr Feuerstein had laid off a percentage of his employees while waiting for his factory to be rebuilt, perhaps all of his former employees could be employed today and Mr. Feuerstein could have expanded and hired new employees.

Oh how I would love to continue to debate this issue further. But I won't here.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:08 PM   #16
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Since we're discussing Malden Mills...

Feuerstein did indeed pay his employees while they were shut down. Malden did manage to get some production up a short time later and requested employees come back to work in a role that might not have been what they had been doing prior to the fire.

Many refused and chose to stay home and get paid anyway.

So much for doing the right thing.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:23 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by fpartri497 View Post
Who Is next? In case you havent noticed There is a trend happening all accross the country. company after company is closing. we had all better lear how to speak chinese.


As long as we have unions we will lose manufacturing jobs to Asia / S. America / etc... , that is hardly anything new, get used to it. If we keep losing the technology jobs to Asia / India then we really have to worry.
We cannot survive long term on service and govt subsidized industires (defense, teachers, CCC type construction) alone. What to do?
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:08 AM   #18
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Lowe's shadowing of Home Depot, and placing a store every place that HD was located, was a lazy excuse for a business plan. It's coming back to bite them now. Most Lowe's have too many people working in their stores. I was there today & there seemed like and endless stream of workers just strolling about & talking with their fellow workers like it was a holiday.
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:38 AM   #19
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Lowe's shadowing of Home Depot, and placing a store every place that HD was located, was a lazy excuse for a business plan.
Sounds like the major drug store chains!
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:46 AM   #20
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Sounds like the major drug store chains!
And fast food outfits and automobile dealers, etc. It wasn't the store location strategy that doomed them it was the overly rosy assumptions about future growth that was the killer. Nothing grows to the moon.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:27 AM   #21
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The Lowes in Gilford has no competition as far as I can see so they'll probably be fine. I hope they don't close... the thought of having to go down to the Tilton Home Depot every time I need something is too terrifying to think about.
If it does close there is another Lowes down past Home Depot in Tilton after you cross over the highway on the right hand side. There is a Chili's and Pizza Hut out front.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:29 AM   #22
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Default compare?

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The Lowes in Gilford has no competition as far as I can see so they'll probably be fine. I hope they don't close... the thought of having to go down to the Tilton Home Depot every time I need something is too terrifying to think about.
Have you ever actually compared Lowes to Boulia Gorrell? The wood is of a much higher quality and usually as cheap if not cheaper, their screws, nails and misc hardware are generally CHEAPER than at Lowes or HD. When you buy plumbing supplies you might get the copper pipe cheaper at Lowes but all those fittings are usually priced higher than a local hardware store will sell them for. Yes on power tools you might save some but good luck getting technical support. Most of those working at Lowes or HD have little or no knowledge of what they are selling.
I believe if you compared instead of just automatically assuming that everything is cheaper just because of one of two things you might be surprised.
On top of that you support local business owners who tend to spend that money in the local community. I do go in quite often when itís easier, not cheaper, just to pick up drywall mud or a small tool or fitting (but usually itís for a job and the customer is paying not me and itís cheaper than driving the extra 15 minutes).
On Monday thru Friday the place is empty.
Iíd not miss Lowes one bit if they closed down.
Besides, then maybe a Market Basket would occupy the empty spot then that would be a big boost to the local economy.
Honestly take some time one day compare prices and I believe you will be surprised.
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Old 10-18-2011, 12:59 PM   #23
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Default No such thing as Chinese language

Chinese is really a "family" of languages/dialects ... primarily Mandarin and Cantonese ... but people don't speak "Chinese" per se
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:52 PM   #24
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Default Lowe's VS. HD

There is just no competition in my mind between Lowe's and Home Depot. Lowe's is so much better. The employees are friendlier and more helpful, they seem to have better stock on hand, just all round better.

Yes, the smaller places are great however you just cannot find it all under one roof. I, for one, would rather make one stop. Oh, I am a 60ish woman and I stop at Lowe's just to look around!
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:16 PM   #25
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Have you ever actually compared Lowes to Boulia Gorrell? The wood is of a much higher quality and usually as cheap if not cheaper, their screws, nails and misc hardware are generally CHEAPER than at Lowes or HD. When you buy plumbing supplies you might get the copper pipe cheaper at Lowes but all those fittings are usually priced higher than a local hardware store will sell them for. Yes on power tools you might save some but good luck getting technical support. Most of those working at Lowes or HD have little or no knowledge of what they are selling.
I believe if you compared instead of just automatically assuming that everything is cheaper just because of one of two things you might be surprised.
On top of that you support local business owners who tend to spend that money in the local community. I do go in quite often when itís easier, not cheaper, just to pick up drywall mud or a small tool or fitting (but usually itís for a job and the customer is paying not me and itís cheaper than driving the extra 15 minutes).
On Monday thru Friday the place is empty.
Iíd not miss Lowes one bit if they closed down.
Besides, then maybe a Market Basket would occupy the empty spot then that would be a big boost to the local economy.
Honestly take some time one day compare prices and I believe you will be surprised.
I haven't automatically assumed anything. I'm aware you can find some items for less elsewhere (like Trustworthy) and like a good majority of people that go to Lowes, the lumber isn't exactly the main attraction. For me personally, the one-stop shopping convenience and location of the Gilford Lowes is unbeatable and their garden/landscaping/nursery department is excellent- minus their tendency to occasionally stock plants like Blue Atlas Cedar which have zero chance of surviving here.

And I'm pretty sure that if Lowes shut down, it'd just go back to being an abandoned empty lot like before, or maybe the Gilford Walmart would move over. I like options as much as the next guy, but I have to doubt this area could support having three major grocery stores within spitting distance of each other.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:11 PM   #26
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As long as we have unions we will lose manufacturing jobs to Asia / S. America / etc... , that is hardly anything new, get used to it. If we keep losing the technology jobs to Asia / India then we really have to worry.
We cannot survive long term on service and govt subsidized industires (defense, teachers, CCC type construction) alone. What to do?
Only 11.9 % of the US workforce is a member of a union.
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics.

None of the Lowe's in question had union employees.
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Old 10-19-2011, 03:01 PM   #27
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I haven't automatically assumed anything. I'm aware you can find some items for less elsewhere (like Trustworthy) and like a good majority of people that go to Lowes, the lumber isn't exactly the main attraction. For me personally, the one-stop shopping convenience and location of the Gilford Lowes is unbeatable and their garden/landscaping/nursery department is excellent- minus their tendency to occasionally stock plants like Blue Atlas Cedar which have zero chance of surviving here.

And I'm pretty sure that if Lowes shut down, it'd just go back to being an abandoned empty lot like before, or maybe the Gilford Walmart would move over. I like options as much as the next guy, but I have to doubt this area could support having three major grocery stores within spitting distance of each other.
Ford UAW union members just this week ratified a new 4 year contract that will create 12,000 new jobs to the US. Part of the agreement is to bring some of the manufacturing plants back to the US.
Damned unions!
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Old 10-19-2011, 03:53 PM   #28
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Default Complacency

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I haven't automatically assumed anything. I'm aware you can find some items for less elsewhere (like Trustworthy) and like a good majority of people that go to Lowes, the lumber isn't exactly the main attraction. For me personally, the one-stop shopping convenience and location of the Gilford Lowes is unbeatable and their garden/landscaping/nursery department is excellent- minus their tendency to occasionally stock plants like Blue Atlas Cedar which have zero chance of surviving here.

And I'm pretty sure that if Lowes shut down, it'd just go back to being an abandoned empty lot like before, or maybe the Gilford Walmart would move over. I like options as much as the next guy, but I have to doubt this area could support having three major grocery stores within spitting distance of each other.
Unfortunately that is what all these big box stores have driven us to Scott.
I meet people all over the lakes region that will not shop at Lowes or HD garden center because of the quality of the products.
Some have said that many, but not all, of the nurseries have better pricing and always much healthier plants.
Now take the Husqvarna chain saws that HD sells. The ones sold by HD are actually Poulan chain saws marketed under the Husqvarna name. Husqvarna owns Poulan so it is perfectly legal but never the less a scam because everyone knows that Poulan chain saws are only good for light service while a real Husky or Stihl chainsaw is for commercial work.
Now as for a Market Basket, there would not be 3 stores because Market Basket would shut at least one of them down.
I can buy the same products maybe different names and spend $200 at Shawís or Hannafordís and spend on average 40-50 less at Market Basket.
That is whey many from the Laconia area will travel to the Tilton MB.
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:43 PM   #29
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Doesn't or didn't Pepper work at Lowes,if so I hope she and her family aren't affected by the closings.
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Old 10-19-2011, 06:54 PM   #30
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Default And they manufacture...?

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Only 11.9 % of the US workforce is a member of a union.
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics.

None of the Lowe's in question had union employees.
Is there something I'm missing? I don't think the Lowes stores in question "manufacture" anything.

And believe me, I am upset at all the manufacturing that we have lost; and not necessarily due to unions.

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Old 10-19-2011, 10:54 PM   #31
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Default She had already retired earlier this year...

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Doesn't or didn't Pepper work at Lowes,if so I hope she and her family aren't affected by the closings.
...but anyone who knows Pepper knows she is affected by the thought of those people losing their jobs. She undoubtably has friends in the three NH stores, and is truly saddened by their misfortune.
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Old 10-20-2011, 09:49 AM   #32
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There is just no competition in my mind between Lowe's and Home Depot. Lowe's is so much better. The employees are friendlier and more helpful, they seem to have better stock on hand, just all round better.

Yes, the smaller places are great however you just cannot find it all under one roof. I, for one, would rather make one stop. Oh, I am a 60ish woman and I stop at Lowe's just to look around!
Mrs ToW and I are remodeling our kitchen. We purchase the cabinets from Lowe's. They were the diamond brand. We have been out af a working kitchen for over a month now because of problems with the product.

First the Lazy Sue was out of square so a new one had to be ordered. That kept me from installing the base cabs for three weeks. Then the one over the stove was 3 inches short. Had to reorder that. Now we found that the replacement lazy sue has a different spin style table and had to reorder that. Still waiting for it.

The only thing is the Lowe's reps at the factory are very good and have not questioned any problem we reported. They simply reorder the cabs at "NO COST " to us. That still doesn't make the project go any faster.

I have simular problem with HD and local private shops. They all ahve their problems.

ToW

P.S. any one need a couple Lazy sue corner cabs without doors?? I've got two extras now.
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Old 10-21-2011, 10:37 PM   #33
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...but anyone who knows Pepper knows she is affected by the thought of those people losing their jobs. She undoubtably has friends in the three NH stores, and is truly saddened by their misfortune.
You are correct. Although I retired from Lowe's earlier this year, I am deeply saddened. I have many friends throughout not only NH/MA/ME, but also in IL and CA, who are now without jobs. It's been an extremely difficult week.

It's been a year's worth of "changes" for Lowe's, beginning in January when they eliminated 1700 middle-management positions. Then they closed 7 stores three months ago, followed by a complete restructuring of their Districts and Regions, which eliminated several hundred more jobs. Then, this most recent round of closures, which resulted in 1950 more jobs lost.

They built way too many stores over the past five years, never backing down on their desire to beat out HD. Sadly, they should have pulled in the reins a long time ago. My heart goes out to all the dedicated people who worked so hard to try and make those stores turn a profit.

Lowe's is not alone right now, though. Charming Brands - the parent company of Fashion Bug is currently preparing to shutter at least 20 locations, and GAP is preparing to close 200 - yes - Two Hundred locations. It's a real tough time to be in the retail business.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:58 AM   #34
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Ford UAW union members just this week ratified a new 4 year contract that will create 12,000 new jobs to the US. Part of the agreement is to bring some of the manufacturing plants back to the US.
Damned unions!

So we have to look at the definition of 'Create'.

Creating 12k jobs infers these jobs did not exist previously. However, you then say the plan is to bring jobs back to the US. This means they were at some point already here, and were sent to whatever foreign market they ended up in where labor conditions are more favorable. The fact a few jobs came back doesn't change what caused them to leave in the first place.
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:58 AM   #35
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Default ....a little pity for the lakes region!

When I think of Lowe's, about all I think about is the Lowe's in Gilford, NH, since that's the only Lowe's store I ever use, and it is one super-duper store! About the only new addition that store could use is more customers but that is pretty much just a reflection of the down & out life style of living in the lakes region, all year round......you know what I mean......jellybean!

Oh pity, pity, pity ....... on all us poor lakes regions folks....oh pity.....pity....on all us poor folks.....boo-hoo!!! .....!
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:48 PM   #36
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They built way too many stores over the past five years, never backing down on their desire to beat out HD. Sadly, they should have pulled in the reins a long time ago. My heart goes out to all the dedicated people who worked so hard to try and make those stores turn a profit.
This is indeed the problem many chains are facing... They build so rapidly for several years trying to gain control in various area's. All one has to do is look the attleboro / plainville area of Massachusetts, separated by maybe 5 miles are two Lowes locations.

But it is not just Lowe's many store will be following suit I am sure...

As for Lowe's in Gilford, I don't see it going anywhere any time soon.... it is Geographically just in a good location.....
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:16 PM   #37
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I think we can all agree that if our economy was in better shape and more people had jobs , they could buy things and all these store closings may not be happening. Lowes may have been too ambitious about opening stores, but when the housing boom was going on it probably made sense.

It's interesting to me to see how so many things are interconnected in our economy... like a spider's web. It feels like one of those important anchoring threads has come loose and the whole integrity of the web is in question.
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:17 PM   #38
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like a spider's web. It feels like one of those important anchoring threads has come loose and the whole integrity of the web is in question.
Yes it is.
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:56 PM   #39
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When someone tells me that a union is "creating" jobs.....I am very suspicious.
What they usually create is more and bigger benifits for themselves at the consumers expense.
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Old 10-25-2011, 05:50 AM   #40
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When someone tells me that a union is "creating" jobs.....I am very suspicious.
What they usually create is more and bigger benifits for themselves at the consumers expense.
Only 11.9 % of the US workforce is a member of a union.
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics.

None of the Lowe's in question had union employees.
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:08 AM   #41
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Only 11.9 % of the US workforce is a member of a union.
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics.

None of the Lowe's in question had union employees.
The most heavily unionized sector of the the US workforce is the public "government" sector.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/23/business/23labor.html

This is one of the reasons why the federal, state and local governments are so far in debt, estimated at 4 trillion dollars (just for the states) of unfunded pay and pension liabilities.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:20 AM   #42
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When someone tells me that a union is "creating" jobs.....I am very suspicious.
What they usually create is more and bigger benifits for themselves at the consumers expense.
I think that the term "creating jobs" is a misnomer....nobody creates jobs. What Ford and the UAW agreed to was wage concessions that is based on a 2 tiered pay system...basically, new employees don't get paid like the existing workers, their pay rate is lower. And the existing workers gave up increases in lieu of bonuses based on overall performance of the company. With these concessions, Ford agreed to spend millions revamping some of the factories in the US that will allow them to bring back some jobs that were previously sent overseas....to the tune of about 12,000 jobs that don't today exist in this country.
I don't work for Ford, never did, unless you count 8 years at 2 Lincoln Mercury dealerships. I have and do own Ford products and like them, and I do own a number of Ford shares which are doing very well right now.
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:17 PM   #43
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Chinese is really a "family" of languages/dialects ... primarily Mandarin and Cantonese ... but people don't speak "Chinese" per se
Tell that to my Chinese exchange student?
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:47 PM   #44
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This is one of the reasons why the federal, state and local governments are so far in debt, estimated at 4 trillion dollars (just for the states) of unfunded pay and pension liabilities.
This is an absurd conclusion. If any fund is underfunded then funds were not placed into the find as was supposed to be or funds were removed.

The reality is that the state governments were and are 'stealing' the pension funds to pay other bills.


If you are of the mind that there are too many state employees that is another argument. Run for office on that platform. Or support candidates that avow to lower or cut the number of state employees. You can start with the state police. Public works employees. Department of Environmental Services. Cut them. Go ahead.

Don't cut the number of secretaries and administrative assistants at the NH Supreme Court though as that has already been tried by former Governor Benson. He did just that. And justice was delayed and all were hired back.

To claim that the state pension fund is underfunded because of the number of state employees is just plain absurd. The fund may be underfunded but it is the state legislature that agreed to raid the monies and use those pension funds for other reasons.
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Old 11-01-2011, 02:57 PM   #45
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This is an absurd conclusion. If any fund is underfunded then funds were not placed into the find as was supposed to be or funds were removed.

The reality is that the state governments were and are 'stealing' the pension funds to pay other bills.


If you are of the mind that there are too many state employees that is another argument. Run for office on that platform. Or support candidates that avow to lower or cut the number of state employees. You can start with the state police. Public works employees. Department of Environmental Services. Cut them. Go ahead.

Don't cut the number of secretaries and administrative assistants at the NH Supreme Court though as that has already been tried by former Governor Benson. He did just that. And justice was delayed and all were hired back.

To claim that the state pension fund is underfunded because of the number of state employees is just plain absurd. The fund may be underfunded but it is the state legislature that agreed to raid the monies and use those pension funds for other reasons.
Actually, it's not absurd. Toad is dead on. I am an elected official in my (Mass.) town and one of the major issues we face is the unfunded liability of municipal employees' pensions and health care. Collective bargaining agreements by the town's unions have left us with a large and somewhat difficult to project future costs. While pension costs can be roughly projected, health care costs cannot. This makes our task of setting budgets and tax rates year-to-year very difficult. In fact, we recently voted to create a trust fund to help us lend stability to our resident's tax bill in the face of ever rising health care costs. I'm sure this post will draw the usual Mass./NH comments but, in my opinion, the fundamental issue is the same in both states.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:47 PM   #46
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This is an absurd conclusion. If any fund is underfunded then funds were not placed into the find as was supposed to be or funds were removed.

The reality is that the state governments were and are 'stealing' the pension funds to pay other bills.


If you are of the mind that there are too many state employees that is another argument. Run for office on that platform. Or support candidates that avow to lower or cut the number of state employees. You can start with the state police. Public works employees. Department of Environmental Services. Cut them. Go ahead.

Don't cut the number of secretaries and administrative assistants at the NH Supreme Court though as that has already been tried by former Governor Benson. He did just that. And justice was delayed and all were hired back.

To claim that the state pension fund is underfunded because of the number of state employees is just plain absurd. The fund may be underfunded but it is the state legislature that agreed to raid the monies and use those pension funds for other reasons.
You truly are uninformed.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:34 PM   #47
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You truly are uninformed.
Well said.

These pensions are state subsidized - if the state decides to move the subsidy somewhere else (as they are prone to do time and again rather than cut anything) the pensions are then underfunded as they rely upon subsidies to stay in the black.

Until we switch state EE's to a 401/3 type program the system doesn't work anymore. Forget about the cost of health care benefits and the like, the day of state/fed pensions needs to end, or we just dig the hole deeper. You need to get out what you pay in with market conditions applied, simple as that. I pay into a 401, so does almost everyone else. It may be painful to look at, but it is fair.

Else these pensions end up like social security - does anyone under 40 think they will ever see an SS check even though you pay up to $4,485 in SS a year?

I may have just gone political, delete me if need be
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:25 AM   #48
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Tell that to my Chinese exchange student?
+1 lol.

I am currently living in China for work and I speak conversational "Chinese". When the locals meet me the first time and realize I speak the language, they always reply with a "oh, you speak Chinese?"

NEVER has anyone asked me if I can speak Mandarin or Cantonese
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:13 AM   #49
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. . . . the unfunded liability of municipal employees' pensions and health care. Collective bargaining agreements by the town's unions have left us with a large and somewhat difficult to project future costs. While pension costs can be roughly projected, health care costs cannot.
Well now you are mixing up underfunded state pensions and health care costs. Two completely different items.

And a misunderstanding of what a collective bargaining agreement is.

A collective bargain agreement is an agreement, in this case, between the town and the towns employees. Both sides agree on all conditions. Each side can hire the bestest and brightest to represent their side. This is an agreement. Both sides agree to conditons of employment.

If your town or the state decides to raid their portion or both portions of the retirement funds - well shame on them. If your town or the state hires actuarial incompentents - well then shame on them. If the money is stolen to pay other state bills - well shame on the legislature.

And in Massachusetts most employees receive an annuity and not a pension. Look up the difference. Some police and firefighters may receive a pension but that is the legislature that sets that up. If that is too much - well, then shame on the elected legislature.

If New Hampshire or Massachusetts has problems with the funding of the state annuities and pensions then why do you folks keep electing the same people?

All elected officials should know all of this. If they don't they should inform themselves or resign and let someone else who is informed do the job.
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Old 11-02-2011, 10:11 AM   #50
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Well now you are mixing up underfunded state pensions and health care costs. Two completely different items.

And a misunderstanding of what a collective bargaining agreement is.

A collective bargain agreement is an agreement, in this case, between the town and the towns employees. Both sides agree on all conditions. Each side can hire the bestest and brightest to represent their side. This is an agreement. Both sides agree to conditons of employment.

If your town or the state decides to raid their portion or both portions of the retirement funds - well shame on them. If your town or the state hires actuarial incompentents - well then shame on them. If the money is stolen to pay other state bills - well shame on the legislature.

And in Massachusetts most employees receive an annuity and not a pension. Look up the difference. Some police and firefighters may receive a pension but that is the legislature that sets that up. If that is too much - well, then shame on the elected legislature.

If New Hampshire or Massachusetts has problems with the funding of the state annuities and pensions then why do you folks keep electing the same people?

All elected officials should know all of this. If they don't they should inform themselves or resign and let someone else who is informed do the job.
Some people might take your comment as somewhat patronizing. I mean, I could point out that, in my town position, I see every CBA with each of our unions and vote on whether to fund them. I could point out that, at least in Mass., the funding for retirement and helath care are technically managed differently but budgeted for in the same way. I could point out that we cannot legally move money around as you suggest. I might even ask if you've ever run for election or even actively participated in your local government. But where would that get me? So speaking strictly to the issue of the long-term liability facing New England cities and towns, I don't think it's the "elected officials" you refer to that have the biggest impact. It's the cost of some of the union contracts. That's just my two bits.
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Old 11-02-2011, 11:21 AM   #51
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Angry off topic

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Old 11-02-2011, 02:39 PM   #52
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As I was opening this, I was wondering if it was still "Off Topic"!!
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Old 11-03-2011, 04:34 PM   #53
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Well I did my bit yesterday. Went to our local Lowes and bought a new microwave oven. Why do they have to add so many buttons? The one I received as a wedding present from my parents lasted nearly 30 years and was a lot simpler to use.
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:08 PM   #54
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Well I did my bit yesterday. Went to our local Lowes and bought a new microwave oven. Why do they have to add so many buttons? The one I received as a wedding present from my parents lasted nearly 30 years and was a lot simpler to use.
' ( The No One Left Behind Act ) '... BTW, I'm still using my fire pit! And Oh Ya, when winter comes and you need to move it indoors. Of course there is lots more maintenance involved washing the ceilings and walls down after dinner. However, the slow cooked food is so much better!

Pineedles is such a Hoot!

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Old 11-04-2011, 11:11 AM   #55
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Default I'm back on topic

I went to the Hooksett Lowes Saturday to look around and see what was left as they are were having 35% off everything. Ended up buying a fridge for $900 off. Great deal except when I got it home I realized I screwed up. Its 3 inches wider than my old one and won't fit in my opening. Looks like my savings will go into a little carpentry work.
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:17 AM   #56
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Default Funny/Not that you mentioned that

It's unbelievable, but a 31 year old woman was found dead in her bedroom 2 days ago in Connecticut. I seems that she had brought her charcoal grill into her bedroom for heat. She died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Over 180 people have been treated for this condition in the past week due to the power outage. I think this woman had her brain pilot light out at the time.

Let's be careful out there people.
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:26 AM   #57
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It's unbelievable, but a 31 year old woman was found dead in her bedroom 2 days ago in Connecticut. I seems that she had brought her charcoal grill into her bedroom for heat. She died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Over 180 people have been treated for this condition in the past week due to the power outage. I think this woman had her brain pilot light out at the time.

Let's be careful out there people.
Do you have a link to this story. As propane does not give off carbon monoxide. How can they sell ventless propane fireplaces and wall unit ventless propane heaters?

These smaller propane heaters do use up oxygen. In a tight space the oxygen could be depleted. If the oxygen is depleted then yes as what is left after the oxygen is depleted?
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:04 PM   #58
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I went to the Hooksett Lowes Saturday to look around and see what was left as they are were having 35% off everything. Ended up buying a fridge for $900 off. Great deal except when I got it home I realized I screwed up. Its 3 inches wider than my old one and won't fit in my opening. Looks like my savings will go into a little carpentry work.
Just put it in the TV room, save the carpentry work as well as walking.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:09 PM   #59
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Do you have a link to this story. As propane does not give off carbon monoxide. How can they sell ventless propane fireplaces and wall unit ventless propane heaters?

These smaller propane heaters do use up oxygen. In a tight space the oxygen could be depleted. If the oxygen is depleted then yes as what is left after the oxygen is depleted?
Please re-read my post. I said charcoal. Here's the link.

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/l...133126588.html

And BTW, I would never put a "Ventless Propane" heater in any room of my house, despite what they say it being safe!
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Old 11-06-2011, 01:07 AM   #60
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Not to get political or anything , but I think this is really sad. I work for a publically traded company and have seen colleagues laid off so the company can improve the bottom line for shareholders. These were colleagues with little kids to raise.

Three NH stores are closing. I feel for the employees and families who are affected.

Wondering...was there ever a time in our history when companies said "while we may not have been as profitable as we like this past year, we wanted to keep our employees working...it was the right thing to do."
I think private companies can and do say that from time to time. Public companies have a shareholder obligation; they have to make really hard choices sometimes. They have to hit their targets: growth, profit, etc.

But I think you are on to something. Right now public companies are at the point of diminishing returns if they cut more. People are working at a pace that they probably can't keep and are making mistakes they wouldn't if there were larger staffs. "If you've cut out the fat, cut through the muscle, the only cut left is the bone."
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Old 11-06-2011, 05:03 AM   #61
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Do you have a link to this story. As propane does not give off carbon monoxide. How can they sell ventless propane fireplaces and wall unit ventless propane heaters?

These smaller propane heaters do use up oxygen. In a tight space the oxygen could be depleted. If the oxygen is depleted then yes as what is left after the oxygen is depleted?



Carbon Monoxide (CO) is responsible for almost 25% of all propane related fatalities. Carbon Monoxide is the product of incomplete gas combustion often because appliances are improperly adjusted. Properly functioning propane appliances will produce what is called an "ideal burn" during combustion and present no danger of Carbon Monoxide poisoning. Carbon Monoxide poisoning can lead to severe injury and even death.

http://www.propane101.com/carbonmonoxideandpropane.htm
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:23 AM   #62
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Do you have a link to this story. As propane does not give off carbon monoxide. How can they sell ventless propane fireplaces and wall unit ventless propane heaters?

These smaller propane heaters do use up oxygen. In a tight space the oxygen could be depleted. If the oxygen is depleted then yes as what is left after the oxygen is depleted?
Thought I would share this with you...just becuase they sell it doesn't mean its right.

Several states within the United States, as well as other countries, have completely outlawed ventless gas fireplaces because of health concerns. Canada, Massachusetts, and California don't allow people to install these types of heaters because of their potential to build up carbon monoxide, deplete oxygen, and lead to unconsciousness or even suffocation.
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:33 AM   #63
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Only 11.9 % of the US workforce is a member of a union.
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics.

None of the Lowe's in question had union employees.
Yeah. But 100% of those 11.9% are members of a union.
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Old 11-08-2011, 06:23 AM   #64
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Yeah. But 100% of those 11.9% are members of a union.
What the....?
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:39 PM   #65
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Well I did my bit yesterday. Went to our local Lowe's and bought a new microwave oven. Why do they have to add so many buttons? The one I received as a wedding present from my parents lasted nearly 30 years and was a lot simpler to use.
I don't believe they are harder to use and the extra buttons are there to confuse us. It is our age, we just didn't or is it we can't keep up with all these appliances that all you need is 2 thumbs to run.
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Old 11-13-2011, 09:48 PM   #66
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Thought I would share this with you...just becuase they sell it doesn't mean its right.

Several states within the United States, as well as other countries, have completely outlawed ventless gas fireplaces because of health concerns. Canada, Massachusetts, and California don't allow people to install these types of heaters because of their potential to build up carbon monoxide, deplete oxygen, and lead to unconsciousness or even suffocation.
"Safety benefits
Vent-free heaters emit heat without burning any combustible materials such as coal, logs or paper, reducing the risk of burns from ashes or runaway flames.The Vent-Free Alliance (VFA) is one of several organizations that supports the installation of vent-free heaters in the home because they are deemed safer than other heating appliances. Several model building codes also permit the installation of vent-free products. These codes include the National Fire Protection Assocation (NFPA), the International Fuel Gas Code, the International Mechanical Code (IMC) and the Building Officials and Code Administrators (BOCA)."

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Old 11-16-2011, 09:13 PM   #67
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The Lowes in Gilford has no competition as far as I can see so they'll probably be fine. I hope they don't close... the thought of having to go down to the Tilton Home Depot every time I need something is too terrifying to think about.
Coming onto this conversation late, but I consciously elect to go to places like Trustworhty (which is less than 2 miles from Lowes in Gilford) or Ace on the other side of the lake rather than HD or L because supporting smaller businesses is WAY more advantageous to us all that buying crap at box stores.

You've read on this thread about inferior garden products, inferior kitchen and carpet projects and re-branded tools, that's just the beginning with box stores. With the smaller hardware stores, what you see is what you get and if you need larger quantities than they carry, they can get a shipment for you in days at near or better than the box store price. I did this with insulation from Ace and was impressed with the price, the service, and the great installation advise I got from the store.

Stop thinking that only big box stores can give you what you need. Look to the smaller local merchant who also spends his money/your money locally....many times, it makes SO much sense....
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:01 AM   #68
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Coming onto this conversation late, but I consciously elect to go to places like Trustworhty (which is less than 2 miles from Lowes in Gilford) or Ace on the other side of the lake rather than HD or L because supporting smaller businesses is WAY more advantageous to us all that buying crap at box stores.

You've read on this thread about inferior garden products, inferior kitchen and carpet projects and re-branded tools, that's just the beginning with box stores. With the smaller hardware stores, what you see is what you get and if you need larger quantities than they carry, they can get a shipment for you in days at near or better than the box store price. I did this with insulation from Ace and was impressed with the price, the service, and the great installation advise I got from the store.

Stop thinking that only big box stores can give you what you need. Look to the smaller local merchant who also spends his money/your money locally....many times, it makes SO much sense....
I agree wholeheartedly. In fact as a former NJ resident who always used Home Depot, I find it absolutely enjoyable to browse Bradley's Hardware here in Wolfeboro. It seems they have EVERYTHING one could need up here. And the employees are so helpful and knowledgeable.

In fact the longer I am here the more I am beginning to feel like this area has it's own little self-sustaining economy. Looking forward to learning more.

I have nothing against people having jobs at big box stores and DO feel for the folks who lost them, but as for supporting a more local economy, I think that is more sustainable.
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:17 PM   #69
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I have nothing against people having jobs at big box stores and DO feel for the folks who lost them, but as for supporting a more local economy, I think that is more sustainable.
Well said.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:50 PM   #70
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I agree wholeheartedly. In fact as a former NJ resident who always used Home Depot, I find it absolutely enjoyable to browse Bradley's Hardware here in Wolfeboro. It seems they have EVERYTHING one could need up here. And the employees are so helpful and knowledgeable.

In fact the longer I am here the more I am beginning to feel like this area has it's own little self-sustaining economy. Looking forward to learning more.

I have nothing against people having jobs at big box stores and DO feel for the folks who lost them, but as for supporting a more local economy, I think that is more sustainable.
I agree Bradleys is great and its employees are helpful. That being said, you pay a significant premium for doing business there for apples to apples products. Therefore, I use Lowes and HD for certain products and Bradleys for others but the weighting is to the big box stores. Sorry, but economics can't be ignored.
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:20 PM   #71
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I agree Bradleys is great and its employees are helpful. That being said, you pay a significant premium for doing business there for apples to apples products. Therefore, I use Lowes and HD for certain products and Bradleys for others but the weighting is to the big box stores. Sorry, but economics can't be ignored.
Generally I agree they are somewhat more expensive the others in the area, but I just bought a muff for our outboard there and paoid $8.99. 4 months ago I bought the same muff at a marina in Florida and paid $19.99. I just checked Overtons and they're $12.99. I hope the next time I go into Bradleys they aren't $19.99.
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Old 11-19-2011, 06:34 AM   #72
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My wife at one time managed HD stores. As she told me itís all about making it easy for customers to spend more without ever realizing they are doing it.
Take a plumbing job for instance, (thatís what she used as reference) you might get the copper pipe at a savings, but all those fittings you buy to put that pipe to use are marked up significantly over what you will pay elsewhere. Thatís where they make their money.
I never really paid much attention until the economy tanked. Now I do compare and I have taken most of my business to the smaller hardware stores.
Quality though has gone down everywhere. Yesterday I had 2 doors with a value of over $3500. Both have to be returned. One is delaminating and both had scratches on them that would break thru the veneer if sanded. These are Brosco doors of finish quality that are to be stained and then polyurethaned. I see this more and more with high end products, so it is no wonder some say why not save a go to HD or Lowes.
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Old 11-20-2011, 03:15 AM   #73
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Paying more for less, isn't Go'in help us in the long run!! Kittywampus is not the way to go, these days!!

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