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Old 08-03-2019, 06:53 AM   #1
TiltonBB
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Default Boating Safety and Complaints

Captain Tim Dunleavy interviewed.

Patience, courtesy, preparedness and adherence to the law would remedy many of the problems people encounter when boating, but there are people who apparently don’t care or are ignorant of these basics.

From the Laconia Daily Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/spec...174331dd4.html
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Old 08-03-2019, 07:03 AM   #2
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...people who apparently don’t care or are ignorant of these basics...
This is the question. I used to think it was mostly people who just don't care--after all, the entitlement culture is real--but I've met a LOT of people this summer who just don't know the rules/expectations. That has ranged from out-of-state visitors to people who took the boating course through a different state online to avoid actually learning stuff to people who just don't know etiquette, such as helping people at sandbars. It may be more of a mix than I used to think.

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Old 08-03-2019, 07:59 AM   #3
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Default Boating Safety and Complaints

My son took the boating course in another state and the only thing I remember being different was the 150 ft rule.

I lean more toward the “the rules don’t apply to me” answer.


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Old 08-03-2019, 09:19 AM   #4
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My son took the boating course in another state and the only thing I remember being different was the 150 ft rule.

I lean more toward the “the rules don’t apply to me” answer.


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I think it's less about being different and more about some states' tests allowing people to just cruise through to the quiz without actually having to read/listen to/watch/learn anything.

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Old 08-03-2019, 11:16 AM   #5
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I think if Marine patrol spent two Saturdays in a row doing random spot checks of boats/boaters safety compliance and knowledge of the rules, word would get out and more people would brush up on the rules resulting in increased safety for all. Have all of the 2-week license test sites inform their customers that marine patrol is out making spot checks/interviews.

Arm marine patrol with stacks of $5 ice cream coupons they can give to boaters who are in compliance.

The message to Marine patrol needs to - This is intended to increase boater knowledge, NOT to try and increase the number of citations written!


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Old 08-03-2019, 01:14 PM   #6
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Side note, been here on Winnisquam all season and have yet to see a MP boat! In past years they were seen on weekends. Not during the week. But, this year, not one has been sighted. Are they all over at the big lake? Just a observation


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Old 08-03-2019, 01:19 PM   #7
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Default Where's the Auxiliary?

NH used to have an active Marine Patrol Auxiliary. I haven't seen them in several years. Power Squadron used to be more visible too. Both did courtesy safety checks at public docks and would discuss various issues (e.g. 150 ft rule) on a casual basis. They could not stop anybody. I don't think MP can just stop anybody without just cause, same as other police. On the other hand, I think Fish and Game CO's can stop you and ask to see your license and your fish.
Things can be pretty busy for Lake Hosts, but maybe they could play a part, even if it is just handing out or offering those buoy direction stickers. (Do those include the 150' rule?). I don't trailer-does anybody know?
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Old 08-03-2019, 06:36 PM   #8
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NH used to have an active Marine Patrol Auxiliary. I haven't seen them in several years. Power Squadron used to be more visible too. Both did courtesy safety checks at public docks and would discuss various issues (e.g. 150 ft rule) on a casual basis. They could not stop anybody. I don't think MP can just stop anybody without just cause, same as other police. On the other hand, I think Fish and Game CO's can stop you and ask to see your license and your fish.
Things can be pretty busy for Lake Hosts, but maybe they could play a part, even if it is just handing out or offering those buoy direction stickers. (Do those include the 150' rule?). I don't trailer-does anybody know?
I could be wrong, but I think that MP can stop, and board any boat it wants for any reason at any time. I know they could when I used to boat on the ocean around the Cape Ann area. Assuming it is the same on the lake, but not sure.
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Old 08-03-2019, 06:46 PM   #9
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I could be wrong, but I think that MP can stop, and board any boat it wants for any reason at any time. I know they could when I used to boat on the ocean around the Cape Ann area. Assuming it is the same on the lake, but not sure.
No they cannot. They must have a legitimate reason to stop you and cannot just stop you for a “safety check”.

Innocent boaters getting stopped for no reason is not something I would ever entertain whatsoever! Thank God there are laws on the books to prevent this kind of big brother intrusion!

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Old 08-03-2019, 07:05 PM   #10
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Default stop and check

Maybe Marine Patrol cannot do that but the Coast Guard can and does stop and board you for a safety check. Good thing we never see them on lake...other then when Mitt Romney was running for President.
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Old 08-03-2019, 07:11 PM   #11
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Maybe Marine Patrol cannot do that but the Coast Guard can and does stop and board you for a safety check. Good thing we never see them on lake...other then when Mitt Romney was running for President.
Correct, Coast Guard has that authority on the ocean under Title 14 USC 89, Marine Patrol does not...

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Old 08-03-2019, 08:26 PM   #12
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Default Kind of interesting to me

Growing up on the lake in the fifties and early sixties I never saw a M.P. boat! Was on the water every day, weather permitting, all summer long. How different today.
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:03 AM   #13
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Growing up on the lake in the fifties and early sixties I never saw a M.P. boat! Was on the water every day, weather permitting, all summer long. How different today.
In those days, there was noMarine Patrol. The Public Utilities Commission and a couple of 28' Steelcraft boats with blue paint and blue lights. They mostly maintained buoys and would bring SP or sheriff on the lake when needed. In those quieter times, not much need for law enforcement.
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Old 08-04-2019, 12:29 PM   #14
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I don't remember Marine Patrol until the mid 60s when Dave Johnston from Alton who was a friend of my parents would swing in to say hi. I wonder when it actually did become active on the lake.
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:10 PM   #15
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I think it is safe to say that although MP is not supposed to be able to stop anyone for any reason, we all know they can if they choose to. They can just make up any reason as to why they stopped you, (most people aren't going to argue with them) ie: I thought I saw a child without a PFD on, or it looked like you have to many passengers for this size boat, and wanted to check the Coast Guard tag on the boat, or you looked "unsteady" on your feet and I want to do a sobriety test, there's a million reasons they can come up with if they want to, and we all know that you must be on your best behavior when conversing with them, or they can make life miserable for you. It's the same on the street in your car. It doesn't matter if you are perfectly legal, abiding by all the rules and regulations, anyone can be stopped at any time for any reason, IMHO. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it just is what it is...
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:19 PM   #16
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I think it is safe to say that although MP is not supposed to be able to stop anyone for any reason, we all know they can if they choose to. They can just make up any reason as to why they stopped you, (most people aren't going to argue with them) ie: I thought I saw a child without a PFD on, or it looked like you have to many passengers for this size boat, and wanted to check the Coast Guard tag on the boat, or you looked "unsteady" on your feet and I want to do a sobriety test, there's a million reasons they can come up with if they want to, and we all know that you must be on your best behavior when conversing with them, or they can make life miserable for you. It's the same on the street in your car...
Yup, agreed! As long as the state does not give them the green light (law) to perform unwarranted stops, I’m OK with it. I have been stopped a couple times by Marine Patrol over the years (and rightfully so) and they have always been professional and courteous....and so was I. Mutual respect goes a long way...

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Old 08-04-2019, 03:40 PM   #17
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Yup, agreed! As long as the state does not give them the green light (law) to perform unwarranted stops, I’m OK with it. I have been stopped a couple times by Marine Patrol over the years (and rightfully so) and they have always been professional and courteous....and so was I. Mutual respect goes a long way...Dan
Obviously, we see these made up stops on TV too often. I had this same conversation with Safety Services Director Dave Barrett some years ago. Especially with new officers, logs were scrutinized and discussed. Too many stops for PFD checks or whatever were an occasion for a ride along and/or additional coaching. Word from Commissioner Flynn was always that MP was to promote safety, enforce the law and do everything reasonable to enhance the boating/tourist experience. I've had interaction with many MP over the years (mostly research/administrative) and I find them all to be professional. Professionals don't need to make stuff up, nor do they want their reputation questioned. They need that reputation to stand up when they do have to go to court.
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Old 08-04-2019, 04:24 PM   #18
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Too many stops for PFD checks or whatever were an occasion for a ride along and/or additional coaching. Word from Commissioner Flynn was always that MP was to promote safety, enforce the law and do everything reasonable to enhance the boating/tourist experience.
Hmm.... interestingly contradictive wouldn't you say?

Kinda hard to promote safety and enforce the law if you're not stopping people. I guess that additional coaching must be instruction on determining the level of stupidity one must be engaged in before action is taken and once the suggested quota of stops per day is filled that's it? That's just awesome!

I'm not suggesting the MP harass people but these guys have a hard enough job without their own actions being over scrutinized. That breeds hesitation in enforcement that that could have potentially fatal consequences.

Not harping on you Descant, I'm harping on the Commissioner.
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Old 08-04-2019, 04:51 PM   #19
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I think the idea is that the initial stop has to be a good one so that if you find something more serious as you go through the process it doesn't get thrown out because the stop was not articulately proper in the first place. Commissioner Flynn is long gone from the scene, but he certainly set the tone for many years.
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Old 08-05-2019, 12:06 PM   #20
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Randomly stopping people just to check their knowledge to me personally doesn't make any sense. What's next pulling people over in their (our) cars and asking us "what do you do at a stop sign?" I've had my boating certificate 20(+) (?) years do I remember every rule and every color out there? Nope... BUT...I'm also courteous and do not venture out to areas I'm not familiar. I could not blindly take the test today and pass it to save my life. What percentage of people would you guess that have been boating for 10+ years could randomly (without studying) take the test and pass it? I'm guessing the number would be shockingly low.
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Old 08-05-2019, 01:33 PM   #21
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Randomly stopping people just to check their knowledge to me personally doesn't make any sense. What's next pulling people over in their (our) cars and asking us "what do you do at a stop sign?" I've had my boating certificate 20(+) (?) years do I remember every rule and every color out there? Nope... BUT...I'm also courteous and do not venture out to areas I'm not familiar. I could not blindly take the test today and pass it to save my life. What percentage of people would you guess that have been boating for 10+ years could randomly (without studying) take the test and pass it? I'm guessing the number would be shockingly low.
Interesting challenge. I Googled Safe Boater practice test and Boat US popped up first, but no practice test without doing the course, and BoatUS list about 3. dozen states without including NH. Each of their courses is apparently state certified.
I found a practice test at www.boaterexam.com. I got 100%, but there were no specific NH questions. If this is the average level of education around the country, and we have a lot of people taking out of state exams, it's no wonder we have a lot of boats "ignoring" NH law. They just don't know. DPG, don't sell yourself short,. I bet you and most of the Boating Forum folks are better educated on the rules than average. This may be why some have so much frustration with those who don't know.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:51 PM   #22
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People know they’re not supposed to speed but they do. They know that they’re not supposed to text and drive but they do. And they know they’re not supposed to run a stop sign or red light but they do. I could go on. They treat the rules of the road as suggestions. Boating rules are no different. Some people treat them as suggestions too and they ignore them just like in the car.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:33 AM   #23
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People know they’re not supposed to speed but they do. They know that they’re not supposed to text and drive but they do. And they know they’re not supposed to run a stop sign or red light but they do. I could go on. They treat the rules of the road as suggestions. Boating rules are no different. Some people treat them as suggestions too and they ignore them just like in the car.
I'm not really referring to this kind of common sense stuff but I get what you mean. Specifically what I'm talking about is when I'm traveling north and approaching a red-topped buoy, black, all red, etc... No clue what all that means anymore. So... I stay in my little familiar area and I'm good with that. I'm not a big boater anyway just a little jaunt once in awhile on a Waverunner.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:48 AM   #24
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I agree completely about things like not understanding buoys. There are two marked boat lanes between Bear and Mark and it’s amazing how many boaters go right through the middle where there are some shallow spots. They often drive brand new boats but didn’t bother to get or read a map. But if they hit a rock it’s all on them without impacting anyone else.
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:42 PM   #25
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Default Guy shaking his fist near Bear Island at me.... AKA - Jerk!

Out on Tuesday afternoon water skiing with the family between Meredith Neck and Bear Island when I stop to pick up a skier that fell when I see a boat going ~20+ MPH heading in my direction 20-30 ft to the right of my bow Shaking his fist at me. I was stopped long before he was anywhere near me as I had already turned around to get the skier and was pulling her to the boat with the engine off.

He obviously was mad that I was stopped in the middle of the bay...
He must have been talking to his friend in the boat after clearing the NWZ and coming up on plane heading south toward the Weir's when he saw me and felt inconvenienced that he might have to turn to go around me.

Unfortunately, I was too busy waving my fist back at him and pointing to the skier I had in the water to get his boat reg numbers.

Last I knew is as long as I am not stopped in a channel impeding safe passage for other boats, I can stop anywhere on the lake I want to. Even if I decide, I want to stop and have a sandwich, glass of wine or just jump in and swim. Not to mention if I stop to pick up a water skier.

And the spot I was stopped in is at least 2,700 ft from shore to shore and at least 3,000' from the NWZ. Should be plenty of space to have 150' - 300' from me and my skier.

Wish I knew where he kept his boat so I could go run my kids on tubes while he is trying to sit on his dock. I could then anchor off his dock and shake my fist at him... LOL.

Good news is nobody got hurt, but it would be nice if people would remember that boating on the lake is meant for recreational fun. That includes rides to Weir's, jumping off to swim, going slow past nice houses(with nobody using them), Tubing, Water Skiing, Snorkeling, just sitting in the middle doing nothing.
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Old 08-07-2019, 02:13 PM   #26
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Out on Tuesday afternoon water skiing with the family between Meredith Neck and Bear Island when I stop to pick up a skier that fell when I see a boat going ~20+ MPH heading in my direction 20-30 ft to the right of my bow Shaking his fist at me. I was stopped long before he was anywhere near me as I had already turned around to get the skier and was pulling her to the boat with the engine off.

He obviously was mad that I was stopped in the middle of the bay...
He must have been talking to his friend in the boat after clearing the NWZ and coming up on plane heading south toward the Weir's when he saw me and felt inconvenienced that he might have to turn to go around me.

Unfortunately, I was too busy waving my fist back at him and pointing to the skier I had in the water to get his boat reg numbers.

Last I knew is as long as I am not stopped in a channel impeding safe passage for other boats, I can stop anywhere on the lake I want to. Even if I decide, I want to stop and have a sandwich, glass of wine or just jump in and swim. Not to mention if I stop to pick up a water skier.

And the spot I was stopped in is at least 2,700 ft from shore to shore and at least 3,000' from the NWZ. Should be plenty of space to have 150' - 300' from me and my skier.

Wish I knew where he kept his boat so I could go run my kids on tubes while he is trying to sit on his dock. I could then anchor off his dock and shake my fist at him... LOL.

Good news is nobody got hurt, but it would be nice if people would remember that boating on the lake is meant for recreational fun. That includes rides to Weir's, jumping off to swim, going slow past nice houses(with nobody using them), Tubing, Water Skiing, Snorkeling, just sitting in the middle doing nothing.
You are correct on all counts. There is no "no stopping/anchoring/relaxing/anything' zone on a lake besides the OBVIOUS ones you mentioned.
Bring a few beers, a megaphone and a slew of kids and sit in front of his place!
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:35 PM   #27
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I go to get gas today at 2:30 at trexlers. East side of the bridge on approach a guy is stopped just before the red pin in channel and trying to rig his boat up for tubing. I come down off plane squeeze between him and the pin as another boat heads east on other side. I get gas and head back under the bridge. Now he is set up and getting the third kid on the tube all between 10-12 years old. Once again forced to pass close to him and as I do I lean over the side and yell to him that he has no spotter in boat. He says - huh ? Needless to say he hammered down towing the kids
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:14 PM   #28
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I go to get gas today at 2:30 at trexlers. East side of the bridge on approach a guy is stopped just before the red pin in channel and trying to rig his boat up for tubing. I come down off plane squeeze between him and the pin as another boat heads east on other side. I get gas and head back under the bridge. Now he is set up and getting the third kid on the tube all between 10-12 years old. Once again forced to pass close to him and as I do I lean over the side and yell to him that he has no spotter in boat. He says - huh ? Needless to say he hammered down towing the kids
Clueless...
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