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Old 04-06-2016, 08:17 PM   #1
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Default Navigating Winni for new boaters

I found this in an old post and I thought I'd share it sorry forgot who it was but it seem like it could help new boaters like me.
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Old 04-06-2016, 08:30 PM   #2
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Red is hot like the southwest and black is cold like the northeast....that's an oldie but goodie.
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Old 04-07-2016, 09:56 AM   #3
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So based on this symbol you pass on the black side going in any direction between north and east and on the red side going any direction between west and south? I learned the old "red right return" for channels etc. but that had no direction attached to it (that I can recall)
BTW...newbie here...thanks for your patience!
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:03 AM   #4
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Default Spar Buoys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillcountry View Post
So based on this symbol you pass on the black side going in any direction between north and east and on the red side going any direction between west and south? I learned the old "red right return" for channels etc. but that had no direction attached to it (that I can recall)
BTW...newbie here...thanks for your patience!
Black Top Buoys
Pass North or East depending on your heading

Red Top Buoys
Pass South or West depending on your heading
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattletrap View Post
Black Top Buoys
Pass North or East depending on your heading

Red Top Buoys
Pass South or West depending on your heading
Thanks! Clarification always helps!
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:15 AM   #6
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Default hillcountry

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Thanks! Clarification always helps!
Do a search on here for navigation you'll get a ton of great info. Everyone here is incredibly helpful to new boaters like us.
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:15 AM   #7
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Default Navigating Winni

HC, The red, right returning is rule #1 for salt water. Winni and other lakes utilize the Spar System which you had better learn and understand before venturing out in NH fresh waters. A complete explanation can be found on page 15 of The free brochure offered at all marinas thru out the state. The symbol previously posted was wonderful. Thank you for sharing that
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:24 AM   #8
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HC, The red, right returning is rule #1 for salt water. Winni and other lakes utilize the Spar System which you had better learn and understand before venturing out in NH fresh waters. A complete explanation can be found on page 15 of The free brochure offered at all marinas thru out the state. The symbol previously posted was wonderful. Thank you for sharing that
Do you know if the brochure is online anywhere?
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:03 AM   #9
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Default Navigating Winni

RT, I have never looked for this on-line but I will bet it is there under NH Boating Regs.
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:17 AM   #10
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https://www.boat-ed.com/newhampshire...uide/10103101/



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Old 04-07-2016, 11:36 AM   #11
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Yes... FORGET RRR (Red Right Return) on the inland waters of NH!

This threw me for a loop when I first started on the lake.

I grew up as a teenager boating out of Gloucester harbor. My dad was ex Navy (not that it matters), and taught me to navigate.

When I took my NH boating license course, I even had an argument with the instructor, not about the NH Inland Spar system, but about the ocean ATONs (Aids TO Navigation).

The class room documentation and booklets and all said the salt water ATONs were Red and Green. So I asked, "when did they change from Red and Black", he said they were always Red and Green and there never were any that were black!

I guess I was showing my age, as I knew that they were black when I was a kid. He kept arguing with me, so I had to call my brother-in-law, he used to work in the Coast Guard setting ATONs. He confirmed that years ago, they had to pull all the black ATONs and repaint them GREEN!

Oh, sorry for going off topic...

Just forget R R R in fresh water in NH!

And... the details are:

Red Top (think hot, like the South West), so South if you are heading East or West, and go West if you are heading North or South.

Black Top (think cold, like the North East), So North if you are heading East or West, or go East if you are heading North or South.

So it's not just go "North or East", it matters if you are heading in a northern /southern or eastern/western direction.

Note that sometimes it's confusing, so always check a chart for the proper side, especially when there are multiple spars in the area. I've seen a few places on the lake where just glancing at your compass to decide where to go didn't quite work properly.
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:59 AM   #12
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Default Navigating Winni

Rich, I know that I will be showing my age when I say that you were correct, back in the 50s they were most definitely red and black.
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Old 04-07-2016, 12:11 PM   #13
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Rich, I know that I will be showing my age when I say that you were correct, back in the 50s they were most definitely red and black.
Yes!!! But I was on the salt water back in the late 60's to early 70's. I can't talk for the 50's, as I wouldn't remember much of it.

Oh I forgot to mention... if you go into most marine shops in the area, or boat dealers, there is a nice decal that they can give you, it shows the NH Spar ATONs along with a diagram to help you remember right of way with another boat. It's small enough to apply to a spot at your helm. My first boat had one and I used it a lot. I didn't put one on my newer boat as I didn't want to clutter my helm with too many warning decals.
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Old 04-07-2016, 12:33 PM   #14
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First and foremost --

Remember to use your head and also consult with the Chart if even mildly in doubt !!!


Two particular spots that always threw me for my early years boating here were (1) Spars at FL#30 -- between Bear & Mink (2) Black Top off the Southern Edge of Treasure Isl. amongst 2 -3 other places.

All can be explained (and I fully understand today) but both will throw ya for a loop when your only staring at a compass ! Especially FL30 where visually you "appear" to be splitting two black Tops (they are actually somewhat staggered and thus not companions).


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Old 04-07-2016, 12:50 PM   #15
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Default Navigating Winni

Rich, 8 yrs ago these stickers were very easy to pick-up. Not the case in recent years, I fail to remember who had them produced but I have not seen a new one in a long time, too bad as they were great!
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Old 04-07-2016, 01:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Rich, I know that I will be showing my age when I say that you were correct, back in the 50s they were most definitely red and black.
60's too. Some time between boating as a kid and as an adult they changed.

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Old 04-07-2016, 01:25 PM   #17
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Thanks for all the replies and let me say that I am not a complete novice as I have been on Winni many times either as a kid when my dad took me salmon fishing, and as an adult when fishing by myself. I also have rented power boats on occasion to spend the day on the big lake.
One thing I have not done is to navigate all of the bays and islands (with the exception of the big easy ones like Alton, Wolfeboro, Merideth, etc.) and that is where I will need to practice and learn the hazards.
I always err on the side of caution as I don't want to be "that guy" who gets stranded by ignorance or just plain cockiness. That's not me. I respect the lakes and waters as well as my fellow boaters and everyone else that enjoys our lakes.
I am really looking forward to my new boat and NH's many waterways.
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Old 04-08-2016, 02:08 PM   #18
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Thanks for all the replies and let me say that I am not a complete novice as I have been on Winni many times either as a kid when my dad took me salmon fishing, and as an adult when fishing by myself. I also have rented power boats on occasion to spend the day on the big lake.
One thing I have not done is to navigate all of the bays and islands (with the exception of the big easy ones like Alton, Wolfeboro, Merideth, etc.) and that is where I will need to practice and learn the hazards.
I always err on the side of caution as I don't want to be "that guy" who gets stranded by ignorance or just plain cockiness. That's not me. I respect the lakes and waters as well as my fellow boaters and everyone else that enjoys our lakes.
I am really looking forward to my new boat and NH's many waterways.
I'm in the same boat, so to speak. And I agree with your sentiment. Have some knowledge and experience but a lot to learn still.

Now if I can just get launched...

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Old 04-09-2016, 08:59 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattletrap View Post
I found this in an old post and I thought I'd share it sorry forgot who it was but it seem like it could help new boaters like me.
Attachment 11685
That would make a great decal to put next to a compass for inexperienced boaters who may have never had to navigate without a gps.

I might make one for our NH boat as reminder for my kids (20's). They grew up in NH with the NE cold and SW hot reminder, but now that we're no longer full-time NHerites and do most of our boating on the Chesapeake, I'm always concerned they'll use Red Right Return if the gps dies up there.

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Old 04-09-2016, 12:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I'm in the same boat, so to speak. And I agree with your sentiment. Have some knowledge and experience but a lot to learn still.

Now if I can just get launched...

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Ditto.....hopefully we can share our experiences within this forum. I too have a lot to learn and will be proceeding everywhere with caution. I hope we can all enjoy a fun, safe ,and incident-free season this year!
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Old 04-09-2016, 02:27 PM   #21
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Been boating on Winni for over 40 years. All this info is super. However, it is also time for NH to change the SPAR colors. The Black and Red are extremely difficult to distinguish in the sun at certain times of the day. Even if they have to keep the colors, a few white stripes would certainly hlep to distinguish a specific color. Just think of he coors that runners or safety people wear....flame orange and that fabulous green. But I suspect the NH Marine Patrol will do nothing....they never do. Markers are out of place and they do nothing. Anyone almost hit the submerged rock just at the entrance to Advent Cove in Meredith that neighbors put a stick on each year? I cannot imagine why it does not get a spar located adjacent to it. Reported it a few times but fell on deaf ears. Just my two cents.....
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Old 04-09-2016, 10:39 PM   #22
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Default Updated graphic

I changed the graphic in the first post to correspond with the info posted in later replies (traveling east and west of a black spar go north/traveling north and south of a black spar go east)&(traveling east and west of a red spar go south/traveling north and south of a red spar go west). I am going to laminate on my helm! Hope it helps. Thanks to Rattletrap and Rich for the info!
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Old 04-10-2016, 01:03 AM   #23
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Default Additional Note

Pass between solid color red and black spar buoys.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:23 AM   #24
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Red is hot, stay south and west where it is hot. black is cold. Stay North and east where it is cold. I am new to boating and that is how I keep it straight.Any more??
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Old 04-10-2016, 10:32 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Sarge View Post
I changed the graphic in the first post to correspond with the info posted in later replies (traveling east and west of a black spar go north/traveling north and south of a black spar go east)&(traveling east and west of a red spar go south/traveling north and south of a red spar go west). I am going to laminate on my helm! Hope it helps. Thanks to Rattletrap and Rich for the info!
Much clearer to this novice, navigator...thanks!

I will draw up something similar to attach to my dashboard. Better yet I just saved and printed it out!
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Old 04-10-2016, 10:52 AM   #26
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Eventually you may encounter a buoy where, even though the color is clear, you just can't decide for sure which way to pass. So you are tempted to go with your best guess. Well don't do it, back off and rethink it. If still not sure, turn about and pick another route. What's wrong with a bit more time boating and avoiding a damaged lower unit?

Ok there may be a situation of getting out of a new area and there really is no other route. So you have to rethink carefully and make your best guess. In that case slowly pass as close to the marker as possible. "Normally" buoys are placed somewhat away from the hazard. Now buoys do get moved around by the ice so there is some risk here. So if you have another route option you should take it.
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Old 04-10-2016, 01:04 PM   #27
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Default Which side?

There are numerous examples around Winni where the Red SW and Black NE are subject to interpretation. On the south side of Welch Island, essentially where there are no other buoys to add to the confusion, you go South and West of FL47, a red top spar. Perfect. Not far away is black top FL76 where you want to be south and east, not north. Like many many buoys, the intent is simply to keep you offshore and to give a little guidance as to how far offshore you need to be to have consistently deep water. Sometimes, that means stay way off one landmass and close to another, e.g between Farm and Chase Islands (see separate thread).

Bottom line, NSEW is important, but ONLY if you're using both compass AND chart. And remember that north is not exactly at the top of the page; the lake presentation is rotated several degrees to better fit on a rectangular piece of paper. And most of us don't compensate our compasses, either.

Out riding on Ossipee with a friend a few years ago, we went to what I thought was the wrong side of a buoy. I asked and he said a lot of the buoys could be passed on either side, they were placed on top of the obstruction. Local knowledge. What you learn here may not apply elsewhere.
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Old 04-10-2016, 03:55 PM   #28
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Default I Like this one better

I like the blue better



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Old 04-11-2016, 11:06 AM   #29
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I like the blue better



Attachment 11688
C'mon now...you're gonna have me using up all my printer's ink!
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Old 04-11-2016, 04:39 PM   #30
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Default Custom Glossy stickers

Anyone that wants to have a sticker for their helm of the spar nav graphic I posted, can go here:

http://www.zazzle.com/custom/stickers

One sheet of 6 glossy 3'X3" stickers for $4.95. (you have to save the graphic on your computer and then upload on their easy to use template)
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:18 PM   #31
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Okay Rattletrap .... you've started no less than 10 threads

so we've

-seen the pic of the new Bennington,
-we know it's now officially in the water

So where did you go, how many times did ya get totally confused as to where you were (be honest ), how many times did you have to argue with the first mate as to which side of a marker or direction to go and how did it handle on it's maiden voyage !

(still waiting for my Steak tips!)


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Old 05-23-2016, 06:42 PM   #32
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Thanks Phantom for putting me on the spot. With that being said;

First let me say that I was WAY more prepared because of what I learned here, thanks to everyone who's gave their guidance over the past few months it was invaluable (even you Phantom! ) not just with navigation, but setting up the boat, weather etc. I could not have done it without everyone's input……………… I'm in your debt.

As far as where we went;

As soon as we got out of Smiths Cove we hooked around the outside of Lockes Island headed east (I saw everyone taking the short cut to go under GI bridge but I chickened out LOL!!) then went too far east ending up in Saunders Bay thinking I was in Wentworth I was not, I was actually in Saunders DOH! I went back towards GI and hugged GI to avoid the Witches instead going under the bridge I was still too chicken. We hugged GI and headed towards the Weirs (I did come to the realization that I'm completely broke, after looking at some of those amazing houses UGH!) We went through the no wake towards the Weirs, decided to go to the Weirs public docks to practice my pathetic docking skills which didn't get ANY better AT ALL (very humbling) Decided to take a trip under the Weirs bridge into Paugus Bay, did a big loop in PB, then out headed towards Stonedam little tricky as I suspected and I’m pretty sure I ended up on the wrong side of one of the black buoy near FL44 ugh! We then headed west towards Bear Island, where I definitely ended on the wrong side of one of the buoys near 29. We ended up anchoring near Jolly Island for a little bit of grilling and chillin. Found that the anchor that was provided by the dealer is way to small which I did upgrade this week.Then with my finely honed captain skills in place, I headed back towards Smith Cove by way of the GI bridge through the "short cut" between Varney and Lockes back to home port!! With all OEM parts still attached!!!

As far as arguing with the first mate Phantom, I never do. I just yes her to death and tell her she's right which she usually is ............. happy wife happy life!!!

The boat did very well I thought. I'm glad I upgraded to the larger boat and 25" tons and bigger motor. We ended up getting 27MPH by the GPS in a smooth section of the lake. I will say, having the GPS was a big help when I was smart enough to use the Auto Route System on the Garmin’s it gives you a car style GPS line to follow to your pre-determined waypoint. it put me at ease being able to follow a path at first.

I will say that even though there were points that I was clearly lost. I tried to be out of the way of most boaters and busy routes, and the ones that I did "impede" were very patient with me. It was the fulfillment of a dream for me to be out there on my own boat. I'm staring at the calendar and the forecast waiting to get back out!!!

Phontom the Magma Party size grill is ready to go!!! The next nice day I’ll give you a shout on the VHF!!!
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:07 PM   #33
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Sounds like a fine first voyage. One thing: it sounds like you may not have the tracks feature activated on your Garmin--with that on, you'll have a set of dashed lines indicating safe passage without having to use the destination feature. I think that's much nicer, as you can just drive instead of having to do from point to point. I've driven almost all those lines, BTW, and they've all been safe.

Enjoy!

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Old 05-23-2016, 07:11 PM   #34
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Sounds like a fine first voyage. One thing: it sounds like you may not have the tracks feature activated on your Garmin--with that on, you'll have a set of dashed lines indicating safe passage without having to use the destination feature. I think that's much nicer, as you can just drive instead of having to do from point to point. I've driven almost all those lines, BTW, and they've all been safe.

Enjoy!

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Good point Thinkxingu but considering I know I was on the wrong side of a few buoys this week maybe I should wait LOL!!!!
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:26 PM   #35
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Good point Thinkxingu but considering I know I was on the wrong side of a few buoys this week maybe I should wait LOL!!!!
That's the point--the dashed lines indicate safe passage.

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Old 05-23-2016, 11:02 PM   #36
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Default Congrats

Sounds like a great adventure. After following the learning curve over the last several months, it's exciting to hear of your success. (Just as we enjoy CateP's cruising adventures each year.)

I will b e curious as to your success level with other discussions here, e.g. VHF, stuff to carry onboard, etc. I note that, now that you have a primary anchor and a "lunch hook" you're ready for the challenges of sandbars. Go early or on a weekday your first time and let others fill in around you.
I suspect there are some here who followed this as a tutorial and are proud of your graduation.

I think we all learned a lot from the conversations you led, and look forward to more follow up. Thanks for the fun.

BZ. (You may have to look it up.)
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Old 05-24-2016, 06:19 AM   #37
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That's the point--the dashed lines indicate safe passage.
A word of warning: safe passage today does not guarantee safe passage when the lake is low.
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Old 05-24-2016, 07:46 AM   #38
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This all seems way to confusing to me. I have a boating cert have had one for years now. I'm not much of a boater anymore and don't know the lake real good or how to navigate the colors which is why I wouldn't "venture out." Just seems they could make it a whole lot easier than it currently is. For instance maybe circle danger areas that you need to stay away from or set up marker with arrows or something directing you where to go. Well I suppose the arrows would move with the shifting water and currents. I dunno just seems way to confusing and intimidating for what supposed to be a pleasurable day on the water.
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:09 AM   #39
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A word of warning: safe passage today does not guarantee safe passage when the lake is low.
As I mentioned in a PM to Rattletrap, I've followed almost every "suggested route" line on my Garmin with no issues, and that includes during the lowest levels in fall.

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Old 05-24-2016, 08:10 AM   #40
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This all seems way to confusing to me. I have a boating cert have had one for years now. I'm not much of a boater anymore and don't know the lake real good or how to navigate the colors which is why I wouldn't "venture out." Just seems they could make it a whole lot easier than it currently is. For instance maybe circle danger areas that you need to stay away from or set up marker with arrows or something directing you where to go. Well I suppose the arrows would move with the shifting water and currents. I dunno just seems way to confusing and intimidating for what supposed to be a pleasurable day on the water.
Or they could just follow the convention that the other 49 states and half the world already uses to great success...
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:20 AM   #41
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Sounds like a great adventure. After following the learning curve over the last several months, it's exciting to hear of your success. (Just as we enjoy CateP's cruising adventures each year.)

I will b e curious as to your success level with other discussions here, e.g. VHF, stuff to carry onboard, etc. I note that, now that you have a primary anchor and a "lunch hook" you're ready for the challenges of sandbars. Go early or on a weekday your first time and let others fill in around you.
I suspect there are some here who followed this as a tutorial and are proud of your graduation.

I think we all learned a lot from the conversations you led, and look forward to more follow up. Thanks for the fun.

BZ. (You may have to look it up.)
I didn't use the VHF on this first trip as I was a little overwhelmed with everything going on. As far as what I have on board beside the MP required items;

GPS
Compass
2 anchors 13lb with 4 foot of chain and a 7 pound with 4foot of chain
rain gear
tons of extra rope 3/8 and 1/2 "
2 extra "fenders" (sorry couldn't resist)
a battery jumper pack
jumper cables
a tool kit
high powered spot light
misc. electrical connectors zip ties ect.
porta potti
phone and vhf chargers
small first aid kit
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:07 AM   #42
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Default Navigating Wimmi

Rattletrap: Never be intimidated by what you hear on VHF. Just monitor ch 16 and you will learn very quickly. Years ago, it was necessary to apply for a "permit" at which time you were issued call letters that you were required use whenever you actually transmitted. Such is not the case today. As I have said before, if you have VHF monitor ch 16 as it might save a life and make you a hero!!
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:30 AM   #43
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Most newer VHF radios have a "scan" mode which allows you to monitor all channels. For example while I use channel 12 for non emergency hailing and conversation while fishing, my radio is still scanning all channels including 16 in case of an emergency in which I can assist.

Dan
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:17 AM   #44
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Most newer VHF radios have a "scan" mode which allows you to monitor all channels. For example while I use channel 12 for non emergency hailing and conversation while fishing, my radio is still scanning all channels including 16 in case of an emergency in which I can assist.

Dan
Hey Dan --

Only problem with scanning all is it gets too "chatty" for me ... I agree, most new VHF have a Scan function, but I set mine to jump simply between 16 & my home chat channel


RattleTrap -- in your post -- looks like you have the essentials, my only comment would be to "beef up" your small First aid kit.

We made our own based on a kit and store in a medium size Tupperware container. It is filled with items we wished we had at various times with 3 kids (then teens, now adult) on the boat.

Large gauze pads
butterfly bandages
Extra large size bandages (foot wound/ step on glass)
surgical tape (small roll)
Clean linen towel

{Point is, ya never know -- stupid / unexpected things happen} .... for me, I once slipped while walking through the bowrider walk through and got a good sized gash on my arm from the window frame. Many years ago, our son got a good sized gash on the bottom of his foot when climbing on the rocks (and slipped) while we were at a sand bar.

Don't misunderstand, I am not talking about setting up a floating E-room, but you did mention "Kit" and those are usually filled only with household bandages.





.
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:42 AM   #45
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This all seems way to confusing to me. I have a boating cert have had one for years now. I'm not much of a boater anymore and don't know the lake real good or how to navigate the colors which is why I wouldn't "venture out." Just seems they could make it a whole lot easier than it currently is. For instance maybe circle danger areas that you need to stay away from or set up marker with arrows or something directing you where to go. Well I suppose the arrows would move with the shifting water and currents. I dunno just seems way to confusing and intimidating for what supposed to be a pleasurable day on the water.
I have been boating on the lake for 20 years and have visited virtually every cove without fully understanding the Spar system. The Bizer map makes it reasonably simple. You just need to follow the suggested route lines on the chart. The only trick is to realize where you are on the chart at all times and look ahead for the next marker..
A couple seasons of this and you will have most areas memorized and a quick glance at the chart will remind you exactly where to go. Using the colors and compass to determine every buoy is a ton of extra work. Bizer has already done the work for you.
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:47 AM   #46
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I have been boating on the lake for 20 years and have visited virtually every cove without fully understanding the Spar system. The Bizer map makes it reasonably simple. You just need to follow the suggested route lines on the chart. The only trick is to realize where you are on the chart at all times and look ahead for the next marker..
A couple seasons of this and you will have most areas memorized and a quick glance at the chart will remind you exactly where to go. Using the colors and compass to determine every buoy is a ton of extra work. Bizer has already done the work for you.
Only issue is it's very hard to see buoy's at certain times of the day, let alone differentiate the color.
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:52 PM   #47
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Hey Dan --

Only problem with scanning all is it gets too "chatty" for me ... I agree, most new VHF have a Scan function, but I set mine to jump simply between 16 & my home chat channel


RattleTrap -- in your post -- looks like you have the essentials, my only comment would be to "beef up" your small First aid kit.

We made our own based on a kit and store in a medium size Tupperware container. It is filled with items we wished we had at various times with 3 kids (then teens, now adult) on the boat.

Large gauze pads
butterfly bandages
Extra large size bandages (foot wound/ step on glass)
surgical tape (small roll)
Clean linen towel

{Point is, ya never know -- stupid / unexpected things happen} .... for me, I once slipped while walking through the bowrider walk through and got a good sized gash on my arm from the window frame. Many years ago, our son got a good sized gash on the bottom of his foot when climbing on the rocks (and slipped) while we were at a sand bar.

Don't misunderstand, I am not talking about setting up a floating E-room, but you did mention "Kit" and those are usually filled only with household bandages.





.
Sounds like I just need to hail you on the VHF if we have a medical emergency

good advise as always !
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Old 05-24-2016, 01:10 PM   #48
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Only issue is it's very hard to see buoy's at certain times of the day, let alone differentiate the color.
True, they are hard to see but if you use the chart and head toward the next marker they will come in sight with plenty of time to adjust course. I think the key skill to using the chart like this is recognizing the shoreline and matching it up to the chart so you are confident in what direction you are heading.
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Old 05-24-2016, 03:33 PM   #49
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Default Where-O-Where...

Sometimes, the white portion of a spar buoy is not visible, particularly when the lake level is near full. The red top buoy west of Dollar I$land [near East Bear Island] presently is very difficult to spot as only the red portion is visible. 🐻
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:56 PM   #50
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I had to replace my chart plotter last week and my new one has a feature that displays a heading line. It's very handy for knowing when you are on the right course to pass a marker on the correct side. If you have this feature, enable it and try it out.
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:12 AM   #51
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Ever get confused about the markers? Just as BEN!

BEN (Black, East, North)
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:41 AM   #52
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Default Compass and navigating the spar buoys

Update:
Went out yesterday down to Alton Bay up to Meredith and everywhere in between awesome day!!

The real reason for the post is. I had been using the compass that you see below for navigating. But as most of you know, that because it shows your heading the east/west ect. appears backward from the actual direction that east/west is .....So thankfully yesterday I found that my GPS has a "compass tape" on it. Which displays your heading and also displays east/west in their actual correct location.....THIS WAS AH HA MOMENT I'VE BEEN WATING FOR!!!!!! When navigating became no longer as intimidating............... Now before anyone says it yes, I could have just went the opposite direction of what the actual compass read but, most times when a boater gets to a buoy, you need to make a decision fairly quickly and any indecision leads to doubt........... I just wanted to share this for any new "captains" this was a game changer for me. I'm comfortable with RSW BNE and knowing which direction is correct, made decision making easy!

....Have a safe holiday weekend everyone!!!




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Old 05-27-2016, 09:57 AM   #53
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I can't see your image, but you may find that you're looking at the wrong part of the compass.

As an example look at this compass:



Looking at the far end, you can see the boat is heading north. Looking at the near EDGE, you can see the heading in degrees (0).

But if you tried to look down on the compass and looked at the near end on top of the compass card, you're looking at a "S", which is behind you.

Your compass image didn't show up so I don't know what you are actually looking at.
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Old 05-27-2016, 10:00 AM   #54
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OH now I see your compass, I'm not sure why it wasn't showing before. Yes, this type of compass can be confusing at times, especially when trying to navigate on the proper side of markers on the lake. I think it's called a 'direct reading' compass.

I prefer one like the image I put in the previous post. Ritchie calls this type their 'combi dial' type of compass.

I think if I had that type of compass, I'd swap it out for one that was more like the unit I displayed. It's trying to show you your heading as the boat is heading, you can't look at it when heading north and say 'east is to my left'. Wow, that will screw you up big time!
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Old 05-27-2016, 10:46 AM   #55
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Or they could just follow the convention that the other 49 states and half the world already uses to great success...
Dave???? are you using logic??? come on... then the lake would loose its New Hampshire Charm.... You know NH was the last state to Adopt the Bow Identification numbers, and hell that only happened around 1990... so to think they could accept that standard international inland navigation system is at least another 20 or so years away.....

Live Free or die, the New Hampshire way.....

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Old 05-27-2016, 10:58 AM   #56
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I have been boating on the lake for 20 years and have visited virtually every cove without fully understanding the Spar system. The Bizer map makes it reasonably simple. You just need to follow the suggested route lines on the chart. The only trick is to realize where you are on the chart at all times and look ahead for the next marker..
A couple seasons of this and you will have most areas memorized and a quick glance at the chart will remind you exactly where to go. Using the colors and compass to determine every buoy is a ton of extra work. Bizer has already done the work for you.

While I don't disagree with this in full.... Understanding the navigation aids will help you on other Lakes in NH where Bizer or others haven't created charts... But then again if you don't go boating other places well.......

I am sorry and I am not trying to make light of the truth of your statement, but that is like saying, you don't need to know the rules of the road to drive a car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't imagine trying to help other people navigate around the lake, let alone teach my kids to do so with out understanding the SPAR system... And how are my kids doing with it ??? They are learning, and we discuss where north is and what side of the mark they are on etc. even when I am driving....

In reality you shouldn't need to rely on a map... or chart plotter, yes they are helpful, but they are really just aids, just like the markers themselves... It does really bug me when people start relying on modern means, instead of learning the basics which are really easy....

Now with that said, if anyone wants to go out in a boat for an on the water lesson with me and my kids, I love teaching people how to get around the lake, and to do so with confidence...and be able to tell someone why they are on the side of a marker they are on.....
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:03 AM   #57
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For those who don't have a Garmin or know what I'm talking about, this picture shows the "approximate navigation line."

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Old 05-31-2016, 11:21 AM   #58
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I've had my USCG 100 Ton NC license for over 20 years. I've run many charter boats (mostly at night) and have been up and down the east coast many times. I would say I am very comfortable with navigation.

I'm relatively new to the lake, and I do find the SPAR system totally confusing. Also very hard to see, day and night. I keep the bizer chart and iphone with navionics handy at all times. I don't think I would attempt boating the lake at night.
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Old 05-31-2016, 11:45 AM   #59
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While I don't disagree with this in full.... Understanding the navigation aids will help you on other Lakes in NH where Bizer or others haven't created charts... But then again if you don't go boating other places well.......

I am sorry and I am not trying to make light of the truth of your statement, but that is like saying, you don't need to know the rules of the road to drive a car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't imagine trying to help other people navigate around the lake, let alone teach my kids to do so with out understanding the SPAR system... And how are my kids doing with it ??? They are learning, and we discuss where north is and what side of the mark they are on etc. even when I am driving....

In reality you shouldn't need to rely on a map... or chart plotter, yes they are helpful, but they are really just aids, just like the markers themselves... It does really bug me when people start relying on modern means, instead of learning the basics which are really easy....

Now with that said, if anyone wants to go out in a boat for an on the water lesson with me and my kids, I love teaching people how to get around the lake, and to do so with confidence...and be able to tell someone why they are on the side of a marker they are on.....

I guess I can't argue against having a full understanding of the nav aids, but the Bizer chart really does take the guess work out of knowing what side of the marker to be on at least on Winni. Like I said as long as you know where YOU are the chart is basically foolproof. Relying on a GPS is definitely not best practice. At least with the chart you will have a better memory of where the markers are on your next time out.

With that said I can't believe how many people I saw on the wrong side of markers this weekend. The part be Eagle island is painful to watch. I am surprised more people don't hit the rocks in there. Must be just deep enough for most although it looked really shallow when I was in there last year helping a fellow boater out...
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Old 05-31-2016, 11:57 AM   #60
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With that said I can't believe how many people I saw on the wrong side of markers this weekend. The part be Eagle island is painful to watch. I am surprised more people don't hit the rocks in there. Must be just deep enough for most although it looked really shallow when I was in there last year helping a fellow boater out...
As I have said numerous times in the past -- this particular spot absolutely AMAZES me !!

And no one can convince me of "they have local knowledge" !!

I too have towed a many from this area through the years ... and as 4Fun indicates, is painful to watch at times


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Old 05-31-2016, 01:07 PM   #61
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Having never boated outside of NH and hearing about how we should be like the rest of the country, I looked to find out what the marking system is on inland(lakes). All I can find are buoys that reference returning from sea/upstream and leaving which I'm well aware of. How does that relate to a lake? It doesn't. Can somebody show me what the typical marking system looks like on other state lakes and how an area is marked?
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Old 05-31-2016, 02:42 PM   #62
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Having never boated outside of NH and hearing about how we should be like the rest of the country, I looked to find out what the marking system is on inland(lakes). All I can find are buoys that reference returning from sea/upstream and leaving which I'm well aware of. How does that relate to a lake? It doesn't. Can somebody show me what the typical marking system looks like on other state lakes and how an area is marked?

The old USWMS black port side channel markers are now GREEN can buoys.

The old USWMS red starboard side channel markers are now red NUN buoys.

The old USWMS red and white vertically striped buoys have been replaced by one of the following:
a red or green channel marker directing safe passage, an orange and white regulatory marker,
or a red and black isolated danger marker.

The old USWMS white buoys topped with black or red bands, have been replaced by one of the following: a red or green channel marker directing safe passage, an orange and white regulatory marker, or a red and black isolated danger marker.
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Old 06-01-2016, 09:07 AM   #63
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Having never boated outside of NH and hearing about how we should be like the rest of the country, I looked to find out what the marking system is on inland(lakes). All I can find are buoys that reference returning from sea/upstream and leaving which I'm well aware of. How does that relate to a lake? It doesn't. Can somebody show me what the typical marking system looks like on other state lakes and how an area is marked?
I was on Long Lake in Maine for a week last year, and found the markers to be very simple. I think the best one was the one that is white with black vertical stripes, that tells you at a glance not to go between the marker and the shore. But they were all good, way better than NH in my opinion.

http://www.maine.gov/dacf/parks/wate...nal_aids.shtml
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:02 AM   #64
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I was on Long Lake in Maine for a week last year, and found the markers to be very simple. I think the best one was the one that is white with black vertical stripes, that tells you at a glance not to go between the marker and the shore. But they were all good, way better than NH in my opinion.

http://www.maine.gov/dacf/parks/wate...nal_aids.shtml
Did you go down the river too? It's very well marked and easy to understand.
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Old 06-01-2016, 03:14 PM   #65
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I must be kind of dumb here. The link Chip posted has the same info that I've been finding, they all talk about a channel or upstream/downstream. Apply these to a Winni chart is what I'm looking for where there is no upstream/ downstream in the middle of the lake. Do you just stay one side of the green and another side of the red?
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Old 06-01-2016, 05:35 PM   #66
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I must be kind of dumb here. The link Chip posted has the same info that I've been finding, they all talk about a channel or upstream/downstream. Apply these to a Winni chart is what I'm looking for where there is no upstream/ downstream in the middle of the lake. Do you just stay one side of the green and another side of the red?
Greens and reds are always in pairs and you always go between them. Hazards in the middle of an open area are marked with unambiguous and big danger buoys all the way around. Hazards near shore are marked with big white and black vertical striped buoys that indicate "don't pass between me and shore". It's very simple when you get used to it.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:58 AM   #67
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Did you go down the river too? It's very well marked and easy to understand.
Yes we did, and yes it is well marked. I thought that Long Lake was very well marked, and the part of Sebago that we were on was as well.

Siksukr, I don't recall which side of the channels which markers (red or green) were on, but they were always side by side, making it very clear to pass in between them. The hazard markers that you see on that link were very prominent. To be clear, I only went close enough to one of them to read what it said. Otherwise, I just stayed far away!
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Old 06-04-2016, 06:24 PM   #68
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A scenario...just gassed waverunner at Andrews. Exit marina area into no wake zone at idle, no hand on throttle. Dash says 0 to 1 MPH. No boats around, I am on left side of the wide area coming towards marker. A boat is coming in now at wake speed, slow at maybe 3 MPH. They are on a line giving get the marker a wide berth of maybe 20 to 25 ft. I have a choose to speed up a bit, cut a 90 degree across their path or stay on my bearing and be ready to drift closer to shore. No danger in either at these speeds. I used my judgement to do the latter. Boater gets a beam and asked me "are you a new boater?" I say no, been on the lake my whole life. Gives me dirty look. I know the rules. I also know judgement plays a key role in safety. My judgment was that cutting across their heading was to create a potential for risk. Am I right or wrong in exercising that judgement? Having both a boat and a waverunner, I'm all to familiar with poor boating exhibits on this Lake. Waverunners are often treated as a target by some. I've learned to stay well clear. I will take my lumps here if wrong and adjust appropriately. Thx.
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Old 06-04-2016, 07:09 PM   #69
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Hard to tell based on your description, but who is the stand on vessel? Were they on your starboard, or port side? If they were on your starboard side you should have given way to the boat.
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Old 06-05-2016, 07:35 AM   #70
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Hard to tell based on your description, but who is the stand on vessel? Were they on your starboard, or port side? If they were on your starboard side you should have given way to the boat.
Oh, good, it's not just me that does not understand.

A note: As long as you do not exceed 6 MPH and do not force the stand-on skipper to alter course or speed, you can safely and legally cross their path with less than 150 feet separation, and you can legally make a wake doing so.
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Old 06-07-2016, 10:29 AM   #71
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Greens and reds are always in pairs and you always go between them.

Where are green and reds always in pairs?
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:04 AM   #72
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Edited to indicate that I thought it said:

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Why are green and reds always in pairs?
So that you know to go between them; it's really hard to go between just one, unless you are drunk.

It really said:

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Originally Posted by persistence View Post
Where are green and reds always in pairs?
The answer is anywhere there's a safe channel surrounded by underwater obstructions. On Winnipesaukee, if they used the currently accepted practice, reds and greens would be used in the obvious places like the 6 pack and the Graveyard, but they would also make sense in places like the path between Spectacle Island and Nine Acre island.
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:09 AM   #73
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Where are green and reds always in pairs?
Weirs Channel for one place !

.
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Old 06-08-2016, 08:33 AM   #74
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Where are green and reds always in pairs?
On Winnipesaukee, there are no green and reds. They are black and red.
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Old 06-08-2016, 09:22 AM   #75
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On Winnipesaukee, there are no green and reds. They are black and red.
KPW -- although the buoys are white, the Weirs Channel marker lights blink Green & Red at night





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Old 06-08-2016, 09:53 AM   #76
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On Winnipesaukee, there are no green and reds. They are black and red.
It guess it was was too hard to see the flashing black lights
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Old 06-08-2016, 08:39 PM   #77
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KPW -- although the buoys are white, the Weirs Channel marker lights blink Green & Red at night





.
Are they black and white topped? Its been a while since I have been there, and never at night.
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Old 06-09-2016, 07:25 AM   #78
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They are "No Wake" buoys ..... similar to any other FL ... with Red/Green flashing lite versus white.



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Old 06-11-2016, 02:55 PM   #79
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Default Too hard to see

They should replace all the black spars with green. There is virtually no white showing on many of the blacks now as the white is underwater (waterlogged styrofoam?). When there is any heavy chop, even in daytime, it's almost impossible to see in the dark water. I have a few I travel buy several times each week for years, so I know exactly where they are (in relatively open water north of Cow), but when it's rough you don't see them until you're about 75' away. Green would be much more visible or at least have more white showing.
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Old 06-11-2016, 06:04 PM   #80
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Bright fluorescent green, not forest green. And maybe red should be fluorescent orange. Of course, if we're going to spend all that effort to repaint , maybe we should just swap to the "international plan"?

I agree. In areas where I travel frequently, I rarely look at the buoys to see color, and when in unfamiliar waters, caution abounds.
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Old 06-14-2016, 09:57 AM   #81
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I keep the bizer chart and iphone with navionics handy at all times.
Persistence, what version of the navionics app do you use? There's a couple versions available - Boating USA and Boating Marine & Lakes - I can't tell the difference. Also, which, if any, in-app purchases do you need?

Thanks!
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Old 06-14-2016, 12:23 PM   #82
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Ha, good question. I bought it a few years ago for about $10-$15. before they started the subs. The icon i use is called USA. I also have the Caribbean version which was nice for a BVI charter.

I tried to talk to them last summer about the different versions and devices, iphone, ipad, etc. But found that confusing. The USA one continues to work for me so its all good for now. Its nice also to have routes and tracks sync between devices.
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Old 06-14-2016, 01:19 PM   #83
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Ha, good question. I bought it a few years ago for about $10-$15. before they started the subs. The icon i use is called USA. I also have the Caribbean version which was nice for a BVI charter.
Excellent! Thank you. The "USA" one was the one I was looking at. It's around $10 now with some in-app purchases that I may not need. I think I'll get it then if needed I can always get the add-ons when I'm on the lake, but I don't think I'll need any. Thanks again!
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Old 06-14-2016, 02:08 PM   #84
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For those who don't have a Garmin or know what I'm talking about, this picture shows the "approximate navigation line."

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

I noticed you don't have a heading line enabled. On my Garmin I needed to do the following steps to enable it. I find it VERY useful.Mine is 1 mile long and uses COG data.

From a chart view, select
Menu> Chart Setup> Chart Appearance> Heading Line

If necessary, select
Source and select an option:
• To automatically use the source available, select
Auto
.
• To use the GPS antenna heading for COG, select
GPS
Heading (COG)
.
• To use data from a connected heading sensor, select
Heading
.
• To use data from both a connected heading sensor and
the GPS antenna, select
COG and Heading
.
This displays both the heading line and the COG line on
the chart.

Select Display and select an option:
• Select
Distance > Distance
and enter the length of the line shown on the chart.
• Select Time> Time
,nd enter the time used to calculate
the distance your boat will travel in the specified time at
your present speed
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Old 06-14-2016, 02:49 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave R View Post
I noticed you don't have a heading line enabled. On my Garmin I needed to do the following steps to enable it. I find it VERY useful.Mine is 1 mile long and uses COG data.

From a chart view, select
Menu> Chart Setup> Chart Appearance> Heading Line

If necessary, select
Source and select an option:
• To automatically use the source available, select
Auto
.
• To use the GPS antenna heading for COG, select
GPS
Heading (COG)
.
• To use data from a connected heading sensor, select
Heading
.
• To use data from both a connected heading sensor and
the GPS antenna, select
COG and Heading
.
This displays both the heading line and the COG line on
the chart.

Select Display and select an option:
• Select
Distance > Distance
and enter the length of the line shown on the chart.
• Select Time> Time
,nd enter the time used to calculate
the distance your boat will travel in the specified time at
your present speed
What does a heading line do for me?

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk
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Old 06-14-2016, 07:57 PM   #86
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What does a heading line do for me?

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk
It's line that projects straight ahead from your boat icon on the chart telling you exactly what you are headed toward. It's very handy when approaching a marker that you can see on the chart plotter but cannot see in person because you can tell in an instant if you are headed toward the correct side of it or not.
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Old 06-14-2016, 08:40 PM   #87
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Quote:
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It's line that projects straight ahead from your boat icon on the chart telling you exactly what you are headed toward. It's very handy when approaching a marker that you can see on the chart plotter but cannot see in person because you can tell in an instant if you are headed toward the correct side of it or not.
Thanks for the info--not sure I like the idea, but I'll check it out.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk
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