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Old 01-06-2011, 06:49 PM   #401
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For those of us without TV, please post details
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:53 PM   #402
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BTW, if your sick of the dancing banana, hit the Esc button on your keyboard and it will stop, along with all moving avatars.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:55 PM   #403
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For those of us without TV, please post details
It's on WMUR's website: http://www.wmur.com/news/26393373/detail.html
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:55 AM   #404
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Arrow Hoplophobia...

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Originally Posted by Rattle Isle Windy Side View Post
At this point we know you are uneducated about, and are terrified of, firearms....but your analysis has once again pushed into the just plain WACKY range!!!....
1) While it might seem like a "reach" to have a term for this fear, a term does exist: "hoplophobia". (Pronounced "HOP-li-fobia".)

Wikipedia: Fear of weaponry. (Expressed elsewhere).

2) The NH Legislature made new law two days ago that would recycle FLL's fears.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:48 AM   #405
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Default Don't Give Up.

"The thing about this is I've told the truth," Bird told News 9 from jail. "And if anything else, it's a life lesson for my kids and other kids. There's no point in lying about anything. And if I paid for this, for telling the truth, so be it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9_g_OPkR6w
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:37 AM   #406
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Default "...when one of these gun nuts..."

Here's a letter to the editor from today's January 7 Laconia Daily Sun that is very expressive, and I thought it would add another opinion to this thread. Agree or disagree with her sentiments, it's an interesting letter, don't you think!
............

"If Ward Bird is pardoned I'm going to buy a gun and learn to use it."

To the editor,

If Christine Harris had been armed with a hand gun and had she been quick enough on the draw, when Ward Bird pulled his gun and aimed it at her, she could have pulled her weapon out and been justified in shooting him dead. She would have been within her God-given rights to defend her life.

If Ward Bird obtains a pardon for this crime, I, as a 71 year old woman, am going to feel free to buy a hand gun, learn how to use it well, carry it upon my person at all time and when one of these gun-nuts aims a gun at me, then I will feel free to use it. Also, if someone comes on my property that I do not feel was invited, then I will feel that I have the right to pull a gun and order them from my property.

Is this really the kind of environment that we want here in New Hampshire? Ward Bird and his followers make me sick; they are a bunch of narcissistic, hot-headed individuals who feel that they own this state and get away with anything that they want to, And our crooked, it's who you know society allows them to continue to do just that.

Carolyn Pillsbury,
Meredith
..............

From the Dept of Useful Information, we learn that New Hampshire has a population of 1,316,470 (2010 Census), 400 state representatives, and 24 state senators who represent us down at the State House in Concord. During the last election in November, I was a little surprised to see in the local newspapers where state senate candidate Jeanie Forrester was proud to show off her pink Glock 9mm semi-automatic pistol as a good reason for voters to support her. If I remember correct the Laconia Daily Sun had a color photo of Jeanie taking aim at an imaginary target with her pink Glock and she went on to become the newly elected state senator for the district that includes Meredith and Center Harbor.

So, how about that?
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:30 AM   #407
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If Christine Harris had been armed with a hand gun and had she been quick enough on the draw, when Ward Bird pulled his gun and aimed it at her...
Say what???

I haven't seen anything that indicated that Ward Bird pointed the pistol at Christine Harris.

Looks like there's more than one Loon in Meredith.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:17 AM   #408
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I’ll say one thing about “Carolyn Pillsbury” she expressed more emotion than what Ward Bird did during his interview with WMUR TV.

Below is what I understand Ward Bird said during the interview:

“I had my firearm behind my back in my belt, I pulled it out and removed the magazine, made sure the chamber was clear, made sure it was safe, and then went into his house to call the police.”
Then the reporter said that Bird checks his gun out of habit before entering his home.

Why would Mr. Bird unload his firearm at this time? Because it is a habit? Well to me habits go out the window when you are that upset. He would have been better off to just say I had a firearm but I never touched it during the time Harris was on my property. Also why unload your firearm each time you enter your home? I don’t! IMHO it defeats the purpose of carry one in the first place.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:45 AM   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Here's a letter to the editor from today's January 7 Laconia Daily Sun that is very expressive, and I thought it would add another opinion to this thread. Agree or disagree with her sentiments, it's an interesting letter, don't you think!
............

"If Ward Bird is pardoned I'm going to buy a gun and learn to use it."

To the editor,

If Christine Harris had been armed with a hand gun and had she been quick enough on the draw, when Ward Bird pulled his gun and aimed it at her, she could have pulled her weapon out and been justified in shooting him dead. She would have been within her God-given rights to defend her life.

If Ward Bird obtains a pardon for this crime, I, as a 71 year old woman, am going to feel free to buy a hand gun, learn how to use it well, carry it upon my person at all time and when one of these gun-nuts aims a gun at me, then I will feel free to use it. Also, if someone comes on my property that I do not feel was invited, then I will feel that I have the right to pull a gun and order them from my property.

Is this really the kind of environment that we want here in New Hampshire? Ward Bird and his followers make me sick; they are a bunch of narcissistic, hot-headed individuals who feel that they own this state and get away with anything that they want to, And our crooked, it's who you know society allows them to continue to do just that.

Carolyn Pillsbury,
Meredith
..............

From the Dept of Useful Information, we learn that New Hampshire has a population of 1,316,470 (2010 Census), 400 state representatives, and 24 state senators who represent us down at the State House in Concord. During the last election in November, I was a little surprised to see in the local newspapers where state senate candidate Jeanie Forrester was proud to show off her pink Glock 9mm semi-automatic pistol as a good reason for voters to support her. If I remember correct the Laconia Daily Sun had a color photo of Jeanie taking aim at an imaginary target with her pink Glock and she went on to become the newly elected state senator for the district that includes Meredith and Center Harbor.

So, how about that?
It Adds absolutly nothing worth while to the thread and neither do you.
It isn't even interesting. Just another stupid statement made by another anti gun liberal and printed by another newspaper that isn't capable or interested in printing true facts.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:05 AM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
From the Dept of Useful Information, we learn that New Hampshire has a population of 1,316,470 (2010 Census), 400 state representatives, and 24 state senators who represent us down at the State House in Concord. During the last election in November, I was a little surprised to see in the local newspapers where state senate candidate Jeanie Forrester was proud to show off her pink Glock 9mm semi-automatic pistol as a good reason for voters to support her. If I remember correct the Laconia Daily Sun had a color photo of Jeanie taking aim at an imaginary target with her pink Glock and she went on to become the newly elected state senator for the district that includes Meredith and Center Harbor.

So, how about that?
You are right FLL and here she is doing some target practicing:

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Old 01-07-2011, 12:41 PM   #411
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Nice photo.....and the pink shirt & gun colors go real nice together.

Here's another comment from the Dept of Useful Information. Carrying a handgun carries with it a very big responsibility because once you pull that trigger you cannot put the bullet back into the gun which is probably why the Taser was invented and has become so popular for law enforcement.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:47 PM   #412
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Along the same vain, don't swing your broomstick too hard either, it will not look the same afterwards
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:05 PM   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Nice photo.....and the pink shirt & gun colors go real nice together.

Here's another comment from the Dept of Useful Information. Carrying a handgun carries with it a very big responsibility because once you pull that trigger you cannot put the bullet back into the gun which is probably why the Taser was invented and has become so popular for law enforcement.
Dept of Useful Information. DUI

Hey FLL,
Someone is registering today with a user name almost like yours. fatnlazyless
instead of fatlazyless. Why would someone do that??

Here it is:

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Old 01-07-2011, 04:43 PM   #414
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WARNING WARNING: RUSTY has Hacked into the forum software. How else would he have access to such info otherwise... NB
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Old 01-07-2011, 04:49 PM   #415
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WARNING WARNING: RUSTY has Hacked into the forum software. How else would he have access to such info otherwise... NB
You can see this information if you go to "Who's Online". If someone is registering it will appear there.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:06 PM   #416
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Don is pretty savy about computer stuff. Hacking into his baby is pretty tough.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:28 PM   #417
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RUSTY is Pretty Knowledgeable for a Newbie..don't ya think...? TOTALLY. Just sayin...... NB
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:36 PM   #418
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I don't know. My money is on Don.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:15 PM   #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBozo View Post
RUSTY is Pretty Knowledgeable for a Newbie..don't ya think...? TOTALLY. Just sayin...... NB
I found a lot of good information about how to get around this forum by doing the following:

1. Clicked on “FAQ”
2. Clicked on “Board FAQ”.
3. Clicked on “General Usage”.
4. Looked at “General Forum Usage”
5. Clicked on “Forums, Threads and Posts”.

After clicking on “Forums, Threads and Posts” a screen comes up with some real good information that helps you understand how this forum works.

Didn’t everyone do that before using this forum?
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Old 01-08-2011, 10:22 AM   #420
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Default lET THIS MAN OUT OF JAIL AND GO AFTER SOME REAL CRIMINALS!

I cannot understand this case at all. For the life of me I do not know why taking out a gun would get you a three year sentence if you did not threaten to use it against an innocent person. I must be getting too old for some of this nonsense.

I don't have a gun and don't want one and feel that accidents happen in homes where they are kept. However THREE YEARS FOR TAKING A GUN OUT TO TALK TO A TRESPASSER SOUNDS CRAZY. WHY NOT GO AFTER THE REAL CRIMINALS?" Let Ward out! Overturn the ruling or keep it in mind at the polling booths when you vote.
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Old 01-08-2011, 10:50 AM   #421
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Default lucky1...

He cannot just be "let out". He was found guilty of a crime, by a jury of his peers.
The judge, at that point, has a law/sentencing guideline to follow. It is not open to "discretion".
Attack the law if you want to...start a petition to have the law changed.
So much has come out here..however...I realize the woman is a few sandwiches short of a picknic...but from what I have read, Ward is no stranger to confrontation...and seems to be the type to think that on his own land, he makes the laws.
Just my opinion...
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:04 PM   #422
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Hey..thanks for posting that, Rusty.......I followed your steps and learned something.
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:50 AM   #423
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"Prosecutor Susan Boone said that between trials Bird was offered a plea deal for reckless conduct, which carried no jail time but probation - and loss of his right to possess a gun - for two years. Bird said he rejected it because he did nothing wrong. He was convicted by a jury on June 30, 2008."

That's a quote which grabbed my attention that was taken from the middle of a very recent Associated Press article titled: "NH Farmer is folk hero for gun rights advocates."

Hmmmm....saying no to a plea bargain that would avoid prison time like that is definitely not a decision that I would have made myself. Like, what is the great big deal about carrying a handgun that is concealed. First of all, a .45 Sig is not a small gun, it is a very large gun that is heavy and large in overall size. Carrying that thing all loaded up with heavy lead bullets must be something like walking around all day with an Estwing 22-oz framing hammer in your back pocket.

Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.

And most importantly, saying no to the plea bargain like that was a very unusual decision. Like who would say no so they can keep their legal right to lug around a totally un-needed and very heavy handgun all day. Gee whiz...give me a break!

Is there anyone reading this that would have made the same decision to reject the plea bargain under the same circumstances as did Ward? His decision is very difficult to understand?
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Old 01-09-2011, 11:18 AM   #424
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Default So lie & stick your head in the sand? That's the answer?

Saying "yes" to a plea bargain is an admission of fault.

Bird felt he had NOT done anything wrong and to admit he had been wrong would have been, in his opinion, a lie. He shouldn't have had to lie to comply with the plea bargain. He's been open, honest, and cooperative with law enforcement and the courts, as far as I know from what I've read.

So, he's in jail for exercising his second amendment right and refusing to lie. Is that what's really going on here? I'm disgusted.

Bird did what he thought was the right thing to do. If I was in that position and felt I had done no wrong, I wouldn't take a hit either. Why should I have to plead guilty when I'm NOT? That's probably how Bird felt.

And FLL...

Quote:
Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.
I live in a wonderful little town; I love Alton. But yet less than one mile from my house a woman, who I consider a friend, and who also serves on the town's board of selectmen, was assaulted in her own home one evening a couple of years ago. Her house isn't in the center of town, but she's hardly "in the sticks", as I'd consider it. The person who hurt my friend has never been caught and I've watched my friend go through quite a process dealing with this crime.

Yes, Virginia, there's crime in Central NH.

Just the incident with the Mt Vernon home invasion/murder/attempted murder should tell you that a rural community does not mean guaranteed safety!

After that incident, I don't consider ANY town in NH to be Mayberry RFD, if you catch my drift.
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Old 01-09-2011, 11:22 AM   #425
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"Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.
Well you know what they say about Opinions !!
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Old 01-09-2011, 11:45 AM   #426
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Default Free ward bird!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e41v3...ayer_embedded#!
Great song!
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Old 01-09-2011, 11:53 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by Argie's Wife View Post
Saying "yes" to a plea bargain is an admission of fault.

Bird felt he had NOT done anything wrong and to admit he had been wrong would have been, in his opinion, a lie. He shouldn't have had to lie to comply with the plea bargain. He's been open, honest, and cooperative with law enforcement and the courts, as far as I know from what I've read.
Argie’s Wife,

I agree that Bird shouldn’t have to lie to comply with the plea bargain. However, if someone accused me of threatening them with a firearm, and I didn’t do it, I would be pounding my fist on the table, hollering and screaming that I DIDN’T DO IT, PLEASE SOMEONE, BELIEVE ME, I DIDN’T DO IT, SHE’S LIEING, I DIDN’T DO IT!!!!!!!
But what does Mr. Bird say during his trial? Nothing, absolutely nothing!

Sorry but that is not human nature to be so passive if you didn’t do something wrong….In My Honorable Opinion that is.

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Old 01-09-2011, 12:03 PM   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
"Prosecutor Susan Boone said that between trials Bird was offered a plea deal for reckless conduct, which carried no jail time but probation - and loss of his right to possess a gun - for two years. Bird said he rejected it because he did nothing wrong. He was convicted by a jury on June 30, 2008."

That's a quote which grabbed my attention that was taken from the middle of a very recent Associated Press article titled: "NH Farmer is folk hero for gun rights advocates."

Hmmmm....saying no to a plea bargain that would avoid prison time like that is definitely not a decision that I would have made myself. Like, what is the great big deal about carrying a handgun that is concealed. First of all, a .45 Sig is not a small gun, it is a very large gun that is heavy and large in overall size. Carrying that thing all loaded up with heavy lead bullets must be something like walking around all day with an Estwing 22-oz framing hammer in your back pocket.

Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.

And most importantly, saying no to the plea bargain like that was a very unusual decision. Like who would say no so they can keep their legal right to lug around a totally un-needed and very heavy handgun all day. Gee whiz...give me a break!

Is there anyone reading this that would have made the same decision to reject the plea bargain under the same circumstances as did Ward? His decision is very difficult to understand?
YES I would.

Wow you really can't be serious.

Why would anyone agree to a plea deal if they believe they are innocent? The man believed he was and stood his ground on principal something liberals both lack and understand. Good for him, and you can bet this case is far from over.

Secondly you have no idea what you're talking about. A .45 SIG neither large nor heavy. Most of their automatics are polymer or alloy making them very light weight comparatively speaking AND are compact in size. Anyways what business is it of yours whether or not this gentleman has chosen to carry concealed or not - ESPECIALLY on his own property. That's his GOD given right to do so protected by the constitution.

Hey if you don't think it's necessary to have a gun or carry it, that's your choice I don't belittle you because you've made that decision. How dare you chastise those that do however just because in your elitist opinion you can't understand why they would.

Finally to your statement: Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.

Tell that to my Dad who had some creep bust into his house high on drugs ranting like a raving lunatic in the middle of the night. He grabbed his pistol and held the guy at gun point until the cops arrived oh 15 minutes or so later after calling 911. Even the police chief admitted the outcome could have been much different had my Dad not been able to do what he did. So FLL I hope this never happens to you, but in the event that it does good luck defending yourself, I suggest telling the intruder to "shoo", is that politically correct enough for you?
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Old 01-09-2011, 12:22 PM   #429
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Better to be practical than to be "dead right," as in sticking with a losing decision just because you think you did nothing wrong. Better to cut your losses, take a plea bargain and stay out of jail.

If presented with the opportunity today to go through that decision process again, having been locked up since mid-November, what would Ward be thinking now? People who have completed a prison sentence and get out of jail, will do just about anything to stay out of jail. Principals are just an opinion that one thinks in one's mind, and people are perfectly capable of changing their minds, after all, it's just one person's opinion with regard to how they think on one subject.

If he had accepted the plea bargain then let's see where would he be today? Two years would have already passed since starting the probation-plea bargain process.......so where would Ward be? Is it better to say no to what seems like a very reasonable plea bargain and avoid a jail sentence or to be locked up in the Carroll County Jail, and get to wear a bright orange outfit all day, everyday?

What would you do?

............

Ok....and with regards for the need for a handgun in central New Hampshire.....in thinking about it....having one ready-to-use within one's home seems like a much more reasonable thing to do than carry one on one's person. For many many years, the police used .38 revolvers which are much less expensive than a modern Glock or a Sig and is all that's needed for home safety use. Sure, a police officer should have a semi-automatic which is a combat weapon but there's no need for one as a home safety tool when a revolver works fine and is less complicated to use.
........

Can someone post the entire article from the Associated Press, "New Hampshire farmer is folk hero for gun right's advocates."
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Old 01-09-2011, 12:27 PM   #430
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So FLL I hope this never happens to you, but in the event that it does good luck defending yourself, I suggest telling the intruder to "shoo", is that politically correct enough for you?
Remember that FLL has his trusty and leathal "broom" I am sure that would scare any hopped up lunatic away just by it's mere presence. Besides, after 30 seconds or so, of being in the same room with FLL, I suspect ANYONE would turn and run. If he flaps his jaw in person like he does on this forum, he would even need his "broom"
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Old 01-09-2011, 12:38 PM   #431
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Better to be practical than to be "dead right,' as in sticking with a losing decision just because you think you did nothing wrong. Better to cut your losses, take a plea bargain and stay out of jail.

If presented with the opportunity today to go through that decision process again, having been locked up since mid-November, what would Ward be thinking now? People who have completed a prison sentence and get out of jail, will do just about anything to stay out of jail. Principals are just an opinion that one thinks in one's mind, and people are perfectly capable of changing their minds, after all, it's just one person's opinion with regard to how they think on one subject.

If he had accepted the plea bargain then let's see where would he be today? Two years would have already passed since starting the probation-plea bargain process.......so where would Ward be? Is it better to say no to what seems like a very reasonable plea bargain or to be locked up in the Carroll County Jail?

What would you do?
Had the founding fathers if this country applied your train of thought they never would have stood up to the crown in England. They risked their lives, fortunes and way of life to facilitate a revolution that forever changed this country. They did so based on principal, even though they faced staggering odds that it may not pan out in their favor and each and every one of them could face charges of treason and ultimately die as a result. I admire people like this that have a brass pair and will stand up to what they believe is right no matter the outcome. That's what made this country great, it's ultimate demise will be at the hands of spineless people who would prefer to avoid any kind of discomfort and in exchange choose to loose their liberties in the process.

James Madison sums it up very eloquently:

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:40 PM   #432
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Argie’s Wife,

I agree that Bird shouldn’t have to lie to comply with the plea bargain. However, if someone accused me of threatening them with a firearm, and I didn’t do it, I would be pounding my fist on the table, hollering and screaming that I DIDN’T DO IT, PLEASE SOMEONE, BELIEVE ME, I DIDN’T DO IT, SHE’S LIEING, I DIDN’T DO IT!!!!!!!
But what does Mr. Bird say during his trial? Nothing, absolutely nothing!

Sorry but that is not human nature to be so passive if you didn’t do something wrong….In My Honorable Opinion that is.
The actions you describe, if done in a court of law, would have resulted in Bird racking up even more charges and would not have helped his case one bit. If you read the transcripts from the case, and especially the sentence delivered by the judge, it is obvious that even the judge has a problem with it because it is a MANDATORY minimum sentence by NH RSA. The judge agrees that Bird is guilty but has a real problem with the mandated sentence vs. what he (the judge) considers an appropriate sentence. (Remember, the real purpose of a sentence isn't just to punish for a crime; it's to separate the criminal from society for isolation and rehabilitation.)

It shouldn't have taken Bird going to jail for 3-6 years to prove the point that there's a problem with the mandatory sentence, as it allows no autonomy for the judge in the decision process.

We live in a state where you can buy liquor off the highways just as you cross the line into NH but post huge "Don't Drink And Drive" signs along those highways. We allow motorcyclists to go without helmets and adults to ride in cars without seatbelts. You can buy guns and ammmo, beer and wine, at Wal-Marts in our state. We have no state income tax and one of the lowest tax burdens of any state. You can even carry a gun in the NH State House Chambers...

But you can't wave a gun at someone who, for the past 5-10 minutes has refused to leave your property and even said "F-U" to you, without spending a minimum of 3 years in jail.

Something is waaaayyyyy outta wack here.
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:50 PM   #433
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We live in a state where you can buy liquor off the highways just as you cross the line into NH but post huge "Don't Drink And Drive" signs along those highways. We allow motorcyclists to go without helmets and adults to ride in cars without seatbelts. You can buy guns and ammmo, beer and wine, at Wal-Marts in our state. We have no state income tax and one of the lowest tax burdens of any state. You can even carry a gun in the NH State House Chambers...
And don't forget, FIREWORKS
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Old 01-09-2011, 06:23 PM   #434
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Could it be that he didn't plea bargain because he would have been required to give up his gun for a couple of years, which was something he couldn't face (voluntarily)?

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Old 01-09-2011, 07:17 PM   #435
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Could it be that he didn't plea bargain because he would have been required to give up his gun for a couple of years, which was something he could face (voluntarily)?
Could it be that he didn't take the plea bargain because to do so would have been an admission of guilt.
I'll stand beside and support a man or woman who fights for their beliefs, long before I'll stand beside a man or woman who rolls over and plays dead at the 1st chance to save their a$$, because it it the easy way out
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:48 PM   #436
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MarkinNH you got it so right! It's all about integrity! There are people like Ward Bird, and there are people like the critics of him for not taking the deal here on this thread. I have never faced Ward's decision that he had to make, but I hope I would have as much integrity as he did.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:55 PM   #437
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Could it be that he didn't take the plea bargain because to do so would have been an admission of guilt.
That has already been said.
My speculation is worthy also.
He is reported to have said that he "didn't think he needed" to take the stand. Had he known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, perhaps he would have chosen the other option.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:15 PM   #438
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That has already been said.
My speculation is worthy also.
He is reported to have said that he "didn't think he needed" to take the stand. Had he known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, perhaps he would have chosen the other option.
So do you believe his lack of taking the stand is reason for you to cast doubt on his guilt or innocence?

It was discussed previously that if he took the stand, the prior incident with the shooting of the stump would have been fair game. It's possible his lawyer advised him not to take the stand believing the State of NH could not prove their case.

You could take Mother Theresa and make her look like a gang member witht the right prosecuter (think Duke Lacrosse). When you take the stand, it's very easy to paint someone in a bad light as so many things are fair game.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:41 PM   #439
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No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:05 PM   #440
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No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.
I'm missing something here. Where does the 2 years come from? I was under the impression if you had a felony conviction you lost it for life. If he took the plea he would have, in effect, have a felony conviction.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:06 PM   #441
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No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.
There are people who have been wrongly convicted of rape for one or two decases and turned down parole as it would require them to admit to the crime and show remorse.

I guess it depends on how strong your personal convictions are.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:08 PM   #442
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No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.
I am no judge, attorney or professor of the law nor do I know the details of the plea bargain but I believe that to have taken the plea bargain or be found guilty, Ward was loosing his right to own and possess firearms for life either way. A felon is a felon. Ward's decision was based on seeking the truth not in attempt to save his right to posses firearms.
My son, due to certain stupidity's in his younger life and due to his minor criminal record is not even "legally" allowed in my home due to the fact that there are firearms in my home. He cannot even "legally" ride in my truck for the same reason.
His legal rights as to firearms ownership or even being in a location where there are firearms, are gone for the rest of his life.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:11 PM   #443
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I understood the plea offered was not a felony
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:41 AM   #444
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I understood the plea offered was not a felony
"I don't need people using me as a cause," Bird told the Associated Press. "I just want to be home with my family."

"The case was overwhelming at that point, we thought." Sisti said. "I was surprised the charge was brought, and I was shocked at the conviction."

Both quotes come from the AP article which you can easily find in todays' January 10 www.citizen.com down under the most read articles.

So with regard to the recent comments about standing on principal and not accepting a plea bargain because it would be an admission of guilt, an individual when faced with the choice of a plea bargain or prison time really needs to make a practical decision, with all things considered including one's family and the cost of legal defense.

If indeed the plea bargain offered was not a felony and meant losing one's legal right to carry for a two year period then that is NO BIG DEAL. Losing a carry permit for two years is not a big deal! Why in the world do people think a gun is a needed everyday item, to lug around all day, is beyond me. I do not get it? Ward worked as a farmer in Meredith at the Long Ridge Farm on Route 3, close to Laconia, so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?

Has he ever replied to the question........'so why do you carry a gun?'
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:30 AM   #445
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Why? For reasons like this. That happen everyday in this country.



If only this were Texas....Ward would be a free man.
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:17 AM   #446
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Has he ever replied to the question........'so why do you carry a gun?'
Bird doesn't have to answer that question; it's his RIGHT.

It's every American's right.

The better question is: why do we have a law with a minimum sentence like this on the books?
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:51 AM   #447
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I meant that in Texas he probably would not have been given a sentence as the one he got. They are a little different down there as far as guns go.
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:50 PM   #448
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so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?
Hey FLL, great question. I have the same one. I cannot understand why he wouldn't have opted for a 1911 instead. Clearly a superior choice IMHO.
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Old 01-10-2011, 05:31 PM   #449
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"I don't need people using me as a cause," Bird told the Associated Press. "I just want to be home with my family."

"The case was overwhelming at that point, we thought." Sisti said. "I was surprised the charge was brought, and I was shocked at the conviction."

Both quotes come from the AP article which you can easily find in todays' January 10 www.citizen.com down under the most read articles.

So with regard to the recent comments about standing on principal and not accepting a plea bargain because it would be an admission of guilt, an individual when faced with the choice of a plea bargain or prison time really needs to make a practical decision, with all things considered including one's family and the cost of legal defense.

If indeed the plea bargain offered was not a felony and meant losing one's legal right to carry for a two year period then that is NO BIG DEAL. Losing a carry permit for two years is not a big deal! Why in the world do people think a gun is a needed everyday item, to lug around all day, is beyond me. I do not get it? Ward worked as a farmer in Meredith at the Long Ridge Farm on Route 3, close to Laconia, so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?

Has he ever replied to the question........'so why do you carry a gun?'
This is the first and only halfway intelligant comment you have made in this entire thread.
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Old 01-10-2011, 05:47 PM   #450
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This is the first and only halfway intelligant comment you have made in this entire thread.
Look who's talking! intelligent
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:13 PM   #451
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Oh Man. One of the few times I forget to use spellchecker before I submit, I get nailed.
Oh well. Live and learn.

Last edited by MarkinNH; 01-10-2011 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:28 PM   #452
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As the spelling police are out in force.... it is principle, not principal that one stands on (unless you really want to get in trouble at school)
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:50 PM   #453
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Quote:
so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?
I agree 100%. Give me my S&W 1076 or a 1911a1 (a Combat Commander will do as well) any day. Buy American!
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:55 AM   #454
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As the spelling police are out in force.... it is principle, not principal that one stands on (unless you really want to get in trouble at school)
FLL didn’t make a spelling error, he made a grammar error. (I do it a lot)

Two of the most commonly confused words in the English language are principal and principle.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:57 AM   #455
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I agree 100%. Give me my S&W 1076 or a 1911a1 (a Combat Commander will do as well) any day. Buy American!
Although there's been a name-change, SIGARMS was established in Exeter, New Hampshire over a decade ago.

Although it's a literal "mixed-bag", you can buy your own SIG-Sauer 1911 model that is made in the USA.

A "Granite State" edition is in production by them—now recently renamed "Revolution". You might want to buy this book through Amazon, but remember to buy one or more through this Winni.com site!
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:40 PM   #456
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Although there's been a name-change, SIGARMS was established in Exeter, New Hampshire over a decade ago.

Although it's a literal "mixed-bag", you can buy your own SIG-Sauer 1911 model that is made in the USA.

A "Granite State" edition is in production by them—now recently renamed "Revolution". You might want to buy this book through Amazon, but remember to buy one or more through this Winni.com site!
Eh - I'll stick with a Kimber.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:00 AM   #457
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agree..

Both SIGs I have owned actually broke at the range (220,226)

I know some swear by them, but way overpriced for the quality IMO.

Kimbers are my shooters, Glocks are my tools.

BLA-BLA-BLA-BLA,,

Do you have anything that could help Ward Bird and his family moving forward?
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:45 AM   #458
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FLL didn’t make a spelling error, he made a grammar error. (I do it a lot)

Two of the most commonly confused words in the English language are principal and principle.
Has FLL ever made a correct use of its', its, or it's?
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:59 PM   #459
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As I understand, it's is a conjunction for it is, and its' is an optional use of the apostrophe and it shows a possessive use for its', while its without the apostrophe is the other optional use that also denotes the possessive case.

Writing its' or its can both be used to denote the possessive case because the lack of an apostrophe is understood because it is commonly used without an apostrophe, however its' is more grammatically correct than its without an apostrophe for denoting possession.

Capice! .......... That's Italian for "Understand, do you get it!"
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:46 PM   #460
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Josh McElveen of WMUR-channel 9 tv news interviewed Gov Lynch on Sunday morning and towards the end of the interview asked the Governor how he was thinking on granting a pardon to Ward Bird. Did anyone see that interview?
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:54 PM   #461
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Josh McElveen of WMUR-channel 9 tv news interviewed Gov Lynch on Sunday morning and towards the end of the interview asked the Governor how he was thinking on granting a pardon to Ward Bird. Did anyone see that interview?
Considering you brought it up.... let me guess....
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:16 PM   #462
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Josh McElveen did a real good job of asking questions and had follow up questions on the same topic as well. The Sunday morning interview was a different format than the WMUR evening news as they quickly went though a number of different questions. Both Josh and Gov Lynch were serious in nature and asked & answered directly and quickly to make best use of their time. Overall, it was about the best interview show I've seen on WMUR.

Hopefully, someone with better skills than me can reproduce the WMUR - Gov Lynch interview video here that asks about Ward Bird.

Overall, I would say in the interview that Gov Lynch was pretty much non-committal on Ward Bird and he said that he would just have to wait for any pardon process to reach his desk first before making any decisions.

If I remember correct, the five member governor's council has a five member vote on each pardon and the governor does not have a vote. What the governor does have is a veto power over any governor's council pardon vote.

The governor's council currently has eight different pardons for eight different people up for consideration according to what was said in the interview.

So far in the six plus years that John Lynch has served as NH governor, no pardons have been granted, but who knows.....only time will tell!
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Old 01-13-2011, 09:28 PM   #463
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It amazes me (not really) that nobody on the supporting side brought up the fact that he (Ward) has a past issue with handguns. All that is brought up in the first couple pages is how the accusers record has not been allowed on the record; yet those same people don't feel it is important to include Ward's background in the same sentence. How people don't realize why someone's accusations or record (if the were convicted) should not be discussed or an issue when the incidents take place AFTER the aspect of the event is beyond me.

I am not here to say he (Mr. Bird) is guilty or not, I was not there and I don't know; what I do know is that a group of his peers found him guilty and that really is enough for me. If you care to defend the accused, you might as well bring up his past instead of hiding it (unless you didn't know) and stop making the focus of your argument someone else's future (her issues occurred after this event).

After reading this thread I am well aware that many might not see my viewpoint, just understand it was written by an outsider with no interest in this..
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:50 AM   #464
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Christine Harris states: “she was the victim and calling Bird and his family liars”.

Below is the article that is in todays LDS:
By Gail Ober
THE LACONIA DAILY SUN

CONCORD — A nearly 400-page pardon package concerning the Moultonborough man convicted of criminal threatening was delivered to the governor and Executive Council’s office yesterday. The package was compiled by the Office of the Attorney General and contains Ward Bird’s three sentence request for a hearing, letters of support from his family, friends and supporters, the petition signed by hundreds of people supporting his pardon request and trial documents prepared by former Carroll County Attorney Robin Gordon, whose office prosecuted him. Bird, 49, was convicted of criminal threatening in 2008 after a jury trial. N.H. law requires a manditory sentence of 3-6 years in state prison for crimes committed with guns. The N.H. Supreme Count unanimously upheld the verdict and Bird has been in jail since November — first at the N.H. State Prison and most recently at the Carroll County House of Corrections. It also contains a two-page typed statement from Christine Harris, the woman who said she was lost when she drove into Bird’s driveway in April 2006 and was subsequently threatened by Bird with a handgun when she got out of her car. “No person in his right mind would (sic) do what he did. No one would pull a hand gun (sic) on someone unless he was comfortable doing this before,” she typed in block letters telling the governor and council that she was the victim and calling Bird and his family liars. Harris went on to say that she believes she has been villianized by the media — in the time since her altercation with Bird she has been charged with animal cruelty and animal hoarding — and that she thinks he should have been kept in the New Hampshire State Prison. Gordon stated that her prosecution of Bird was based on “the dangerous use of a firearm” and that he initially told investigating officers that he “’overreacted and owes Harris an apology.’” “I have always been concerned about and willing to prosecute crime involving the misuse of guns and other dangerous weapons,” Gordon wrote. “However, I have also been open to resolving cases when there is an expression of remorse and acknowledgment of responsibility for the criminal action,” she continued. “Mr. Bird was and still is unwilling to acknowledge any wrongdoing on his part.” Those defending Bird testified to his upstanding character and his demonstrated willingness to help those in need. “Ward is among the most up-right and honest men I have ever met,” wrote Rev. Carol Snow-Asher the pastor of the Center Harbor Congregational Church attended by Bird and his family. “There are few people in this congregation (or in the community) who have not been recipients on some kindness from Ward and his family,” she continued. Also writing letters of testimony for Bird’s good character were former Police Chief Scott Kinmond and current Chief Thomas Dawson, who was a corporal when he investigated the complaint against Bird by Harris. “While I can’t opine that a complete pardon at present would be appropriate, I do believe that a commutation of his sentence that would allow him to live at his home and to continue working would be fitting and better serve the interests of justice,” Dawson said. Other letters of support come from people whose children are Boy Scouts. “I want you to approach this pardon request knowing that there are not just boys, Cub Scouts who like, trust, and count on Ward Bird, but behind each and every one of them is a parent, or two, that entrusted Ward with their sons,” wrote Rebecca L. Bryant who is a Justice of the peace and the parent of a Boy Scout. Ward’s Bird’s request for a pardon is but one of seven that will be considered by Gov. John Lynch and the Executive Council at their meeting on Jan. 19. Lynch’s press secretary Colin Manning said the Executive Council will only decide, at that time, if Bird should get a pardon hearing.
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:07 AM   #465
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It amazes me (not really) that nobody on the supporting side brought up the fact that he (Ward) has a past issue with handguns. All that is brought up in the first couple pages is how the accusers record has not been allowed on the record; yet those same people don't feel it is important to include Ward's background in the same sentence. How people don't realize why someone's accusations or record (if the were convicted) should not be discussed or an issue when the incidents take place AFTER the aspect of the event is beyond me.

I am not here to say he (Mr. Bird) is guilty or not, I was not there and I don't know; what I do know is that a group of his peers found him guilty and that really is enough for me. If you care to defend the accused, you might as well bring up his past instead of hiding it (unless you didn't know) and stop making the focus of your argument someone else's future (her issues occurred after this event).

After reading this thread I am well aware that many might not see my viewpoint, just understand it was written by an outsider with no interest in this..
It amazes me (not really) that people who wish to express the viewpoint can't be bothered to use correct information.
Apparently you do have an interest in this or you would not have bothered to add your .02 cents worth. So given that
Maybe because the "past issue" you are refereeing to has nothing to do with the present situation at hand. Also maybe next time you should take a moment to get your information correct. The "past issue " did not involve a handgun !!!!!!
Your no better then the liberal newspapers that are incapable or unwilling to get their information correct. The article in the Union Leader today stated that the past owner of the property that was for sale, moved out of state to get away from the family feud. That must make one hell of a daily commute, for I understand that she works locally. The Union leader also stated that the so called victim had the "cash assets" to purchase the property. I believe that several newspapers and even the court documents had previously stated that the woman was going to try and get grants to obtain the funds with which to purchase property.

Yes, I am very biased in this situation for I know Ward and I will stand beside him all the way. I also believe his story way more than I can believe the story of the "victim"
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:05 AM   #466
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I'd advise anyone interested to read the court documents, especially the sentencing hearing.

The judge had NO CHOICE in how he sentenced Bird and was almost apologetic about it. It's an interesting read and really makes you wonder why/how the law passed that mandated the sentencing for this crime.
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:43 PM   #467
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I'd advise anyone interested to read the court documents, especially the sentencing hearing.

The judge had NO CHOICE in how he sentenced Bird and was almost apologetic about it. It's an interesting read and really makes you wonder why/how the law passed that mandated the sentencing for this crime.
I assume the law passed because the discretion was being abused or was seen as being unjust. Even I, who believes the jury made the correct decision, think that "freeing bird" to live at home DISARMED would be satisfactory.
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:09 PM   #468
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What amazes me is that the prosecutor offered no time in jail plus probation and an agreement that Ward not have a handgun for 2 years in return for an admission of guilt. The Prosecutor obviously thought this was a just offer. Ward Bird maintained innocence and would not plead guilty. So the prosecutor pursued a charge that had a mandatory 3 year sentence, which in my opinion is not just, nor is it in anyway comparable to the plea bargain. I understand that for a guilty person, the incentive of a plea is a lighter sentence, going to trial risks a harsher punishment. But I feel that the prosecutor in this case was not just in pursuing the charge she pursued, that the punishment does not fit the crime, especially in light of the plea deal and the if Governor Lynch has any stones, he will commute the sentence to time served, quickly.
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Old 01-14-2011, 03:10 PM   #469
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I read todays Union Leader 1-14-11 and they had an article on Bird. Seems to me that they gave hims some just desert
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:02 PM   #470
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What amazes me is that the prosecutor offered no time in jail plus probation and an agreement that Ward not have a handgun for 2 years in return for an admission of guilt. The Prosecutor obviously thought this was a just offer. Ward Bird maintained innocence and would not plead guilty. So the prosecutor pursued a charge that had a mandatory 3 year sentence, which in my opinion is not just, nor is it in anyway comparable to the plea bargain. I understand that for a guilty person, the incentive of a plea is a lighter sentence, going to trial risks a harsher punishment. But I feel that the prosecutor in this case was not just in pursuing the charge she pursued, that the punishment does not fit the crime, especially in light of the plea deal and the if Governor Lynch has any stones, he will commute the sentence to time served, quickly.

The prosecutor didn’t convict Bird, a jury of his peers convicted him. Then the NH Supreme Court upheld that conviction.

If the NH Executive Council and Governor Lynch Pardon Bird it will be an assault on The Sixth Amendment (Amendment VI) to the United States Constitution.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:14 PM   #471
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If the NH Executive Council and Governor Lynch Pardon Bird it will be an assault on The Sixth Amendment (Amendment VI) to the United States Constitution.
It may not be an assault on the Sixth if the punishment was a violation of the Eighth Amendment. Three years incarceration for what went down seems cruel and unusual, especially when compared to other jurisdictions and crimes.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:47 PM   #472
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It may not be an assault on the Sixth if the punishment was a violation of the Eighth Amendment. Three years incarceration for what went down seems cruel and unusual, especially when compared to other jurisdictions and crimes.
NH RSA 631:4 (2007) takes care of the 8th amendment. Even the 2011 change/addition that was made to this RSA won’t make any difference as far as the 8th amendment is concerned.

This is the RSA 2011 change/addition: "IV. A person who responds to a threat which would be considered by a reasonable person as likely to cause serious bodily injury or death to the person or to another by displaying a firearm or other means of self-defense with the intent to warn away the person making the threat shall not have committed a criminal act under this section."

IMHO Ward Bird was not in anyway threatened with "serious bodily injury or death" by Harris.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:03 PM   #473
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The prosecutor didn’t convict Bird, a jury of his peers convicted him. Then the NH Supreme Court upheld that conviction.

If the NH Executive Council and Governor Lynch Pardon Bird it will be an assault on The Sixth Amendment (Amendment VI) to the United States Constitution.
Sometimes juries are a crap shoot, but that's not my point. There's a problem with a prosecutor who on the one hand will allow someone to plead for no jail only probation, then on the other hand pursues a charge with a mandatory 3 year minimum sentence. These are two extremely different punishments for the same crime. There is no rhyme nor reason here. Punishments should fit the crime, not the whim of a prosecutor.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:16 PM   #474
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Sometimes juries are a crap shoot, but that's not my point. There's a problem with a prosecutor who on the one hand will allow someone to plead for no jail only probation, then on the other hand pursues a charge with a mandatory 3 year minimum sentence. These are two extremely different punishments for the same crime. There is no rhyme nor reason here. Punishments should fit the crime, not the whim of a prosecutor.
Plea bargaining happens all the time. Wards case is not unusual at all and the prosecutor did exactly what falls within the law.


"A plea bargain (also plea agreement, plea deal or copping a plea) is an agreement in a criminal case whereby the prosecutor offers the defendant the opportunity to plead guilty, usually to a lesser charge or to the original criminal charge with a recommendation of a lighter than the maximum sentence. A plea bargain allows criminal defendants to avoid the risk of conviction at trial on the original more serious charge.

For example, a criminal defendant charged with a felony theft charge, the conviction of which would require imprisonment in state prison, may be offered the opportunity to plead guilty to a misdemeanor theft charge, which may not carry jail time."
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:13 PM   #475
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Not to take sides but to further clarify the plea bargain "deal" about not being able to possess a firearm for 2 years which FLL thinks is a no-brainer, the federal law is as follows:
Ineligible Persons:
The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:
* Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.

IIRC as an ex LEO taking the plea bargain is PLEADING GUILTY! Therefore, federal law, taking precedence in this case, would prohibit Mr Bird from ever possessing a firearm.

If, and I have no personal knowledge, his story is truthful, I would commend him for not taking the deal.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:10 PM   #476
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Not to take sides but to further clarify the plea bargain "deal" about not being able to possess a firearm for 2 years which FLL thinks is a no-brainer, the federal law is as follows:
Ineligible Persons:
The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:
* Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.

IIRC as an ex LEO taking the plea bargain is PLEADING GUILTY! Therefore, federal law, taking precedence in this case, would prohibit Mr Bird from ever possessing a firearm.

If, and I have no personal knowledge, his story is truthful, I would commend him for not taking the deal.
Bird was offered to plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge but refused. The Federal law does not apply to a misdemeanor.

Watch this video: http://www.wcsh6.com/video/default.a...d=742208752001
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:56 AM   #477
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What is wrong with our NH state Rep's who signed the petition to pardon Ward Bird and now wished that they didn’t.

Rep. Accornero said had he known about the Attorney General's report he probably would have given more thought before adding his name to the petition.

Over 100 of our State Rep.’s signed this petition before knowing the full details of Bird’s prosecution. This is really sad and it shows just how politics creates our laws instead of what is best for the people of NH.

HERE is the article that is in today's Citizen of Laconia.
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Old 01-15-2011, 08:23 AM   #478
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What is wrong with our NH state Rep's who signed the petition to pardon Ward Bird and now wished that they didn’t.

Rep. Accornero said had he known about the Attorney General's report he probably would have given more thought before adding his name to the petition.

Over 100 of our State Rep.’s signed this petition before knowing the full details of Bird’s prosecution. This is really sad and it shows just how politics creates our laws instead of what is best for the people of NH.

HERE is the article that is in today's Citizen of Laconia.
Your post speaks in the plural, as in multiple State Rep's are now saying that they wish they hadn't signed the petition. I read the article you linked to and it doesn't say Anywhere that ANY State Rep now wished they hadn't signed the petition. Only that the One state rep wished he had given it more thought.
You must work for a newspaper because you can't get your information right any better then they can, If your going to twist the article around so that it suits your post, don't be so foolish as to post a link to the article so that people can go read it and see what it really said.
I do agree however with your statement about how politics work. Not always are the best interests of the people at the front of a decision or law. The very law that required the judge to give Ward Bird a mandatory 3-6 yr sentance is a perfect example.
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Old 01-15-2011, 08:46 AM   #479
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Your post speaks in the plural, as in multiple State Rep's are now saying that they wish they hadn't signed the petition. I read the article you linked to and it doesn't say Anywhere that ANY State Rep now wished they hadn't signed the petition. Only that the One state rep wished he had given it more thought.
You must work for a newspaper because you can't get your information right any better then they can, If your going to twist the article around so that it suits your post, don't be so foolish as to post a link to the article so that people can go read it and see what it really said.
I do agree however with your statement about how politics work. Not always are the best interests of the people at the front of a decision or law. The very law that required the judge to give Ward Bird a mandatory 3-6 yr sentance is a perfect example.
You are right "MarkinNH" I should not have used "Rep's" and "they".

Thanks for the correction.
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Old 01-15-2011, 10:10 AM   #480
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I believe some are missing the true point here..fact is, it is a he said she said. No witnesses except Mr. Bird and Ms Harris. The fact is SHE couldn't identify him in the first trial! SHE stood and argued when told to leave! SHE was peeking in windows. SHE is a lunatic! SHE said, he said...that is what I see. Someone was trying to make points by bringing charges against him.
I believe the town has come together and realized a terrible injustice has happened, and through our voices we will be heard! FREE WARD BIRD!
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Old 01-15-2011, 10:51 AM   #481
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People who wish to focus on Wards "past issue" of legal run in's and other people who haven't already, should do Ward the decency to read up on the so called "victims" past history of legal run in's and they might well come to the conclusion that this is not a woman who is is know for being a decent, honest and truthful individual. Could it possibly be that she is lying through her teeth in this situation ?
The recent AG's report to the Governor, nor the words of Christine Harris, do not surprise me one bit. The AG's office is never going to step up to the plate and say they were wrong to pursue this case to the extent that they did, for they have their political A$$'s and an office to protect. Christine Harris has never been a decent upstanding citizen, why would she start now. They will do and say whatever they can in attempt to keep Ward where he is and uphold the sentence.
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Old 01-15-2011, 02:29 PM   #482
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I believe some are missing the true point here..fact is, it is a he said she said. No witnesses except Mr. Bird and Ms Harris. The fact is SHE couldn't identify him in the first trial! SHE stood and argued when told to leave! SHE was peeking in windows. SHE is a lunatic! SHE said, he said...that is what I see. Someone was trying to make points by bringing charges against him.
I believe the town has come together and realized a terrible injustice has happened, and through our voices we will be heard! FREE WARD BIRD!
The continued discussion of the trial aspects are moot, as the last sentence in the article says
"The thing that I hope everybody understands is that a pardon [of Bird] only excuses the punishment," said Luther. "The crime stands and it'll be on his record."
And given that, and the permanent loss of his living with guns, I think he should be released to serve out his sentence outside of the jail.
Again, all the discussion about "he said she said" is moot. The jury decision stands no matter how many "free ward bird" signatures or signs there are,

Last edited by Heaven; 01-15-2011 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 01-15-2011, 07:18 PM   #483
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I have a problem with the Jury. Or maybe the instructions given to them by the Judge, or once again the Jury itself. Has anyone ever heard of Jury nullification? It means that they ignore the direction of the Judge and vote the way they think is right. Were they so snowed that they didn't think they had that option?
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Old 01-16-2011, 07:34 AM   #484
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IMHO most juries can be easily led. Need I say more?
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:30 AM   #485
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IMHO most juries can be easily led. Need I say more?


Jurors are misled if we don’t like the verdict….if the verdict goes the way we want it then the jurors did their homework.
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:43 PM   #486
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Jurors are misled if we don’t like the verdict….if the verdict goes the way we want it then the jurors did their homework.
Words of wisdom? More like, nea, nea. we won. You didn't! It's not a contest, it's about a good man who stood up for his rights, and unfortunatly got the shaft by our justice system.

I had no problem when they awarded a man over 1 million dollars who was wrongly jailed for over 15 years in Hartford.

Can a civil suit can be persued by Ward Bird against the State? I think a jury of his peers would go for 10 or 20 million dollars.
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Old 01-16-2011, 07:11 PM   #487
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If a women can get 10 million dollars for too hot coffee at McD's then what's stopping Ward's family from saying the conviction was wrong, and he deserves the money. Now that we are all watching, I don't think there will be any problem with jury intimidation.

They let OJ go and they put Ward in jail.
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Old 01-17-2011, 06:35 AM   #488
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On page 110 of the “Trial-Transcript-Vol-3-212_06-S-154_20080627_StvWardBird.pdf” the defense was asked where they stood in terms of the defendant’s case. The defense attorney said: “The defense rests, Your Honor”. http://freewardbird.org/wp-content/u...tvWardBird.pdf

The defense Attorney’s for Ward Bird did not bring anyone to the stand including Ward Bird to defend this case. “NO ONE” absolutely “NO ONE”.
What a shame!!

Now here we are in 2011 and we have the following: character witness after character witness, protest marches, fund raisers, trips to the state capital to meet with the Governor, over 100 of our state legislator’s sign a petition to free Ward Bird, and now a pardon for his release.

Where on earth was everybody during Ward Bird’s trial??

I’m all for Ward Bird’s release, he has suffered enough and so has his family. But what I have a problem with is when people say things like: the jurors were misled, the law is wrong, the sentence is wrong, etc., etc., etc.


In the US, defendants have more Constitutional rights afforded to them than in any other country. We have much more favorable due process rights afforded to defendants than any other country. If you look up the 4th Amendment, 5th Amendment, 6th Amendment, 7th Amendment, and 8th Amendment and you will see why this is.

Also, it is well settled that juries give more favorable outcomes to defendants than judges. And in the US, every criminal defendant facing jail time has the right to a jury trial.


OK, NOW LET’S GET WARD BIRD HOME WHERE HE BELONGS!!!!
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:13 AM   #489
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You are right "MarkinNH" I should not have used "Rep's" and "they".

Thanks for the correction.
Interestingly the title of the article does use the plural, although it doesn't seem to be backed up in the article.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:36 AM   #490
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Interestingly the title of the article does use the plural, although it doesn't seem to be backed up in the article.
Good catch. Even I didn't pick up on that.
One more good example of how the newspapers just want to print something and sell papers. They don't care whether or not they have the information and facts right.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:20 AM   #491
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I believe some are missing the true point here..fact is, it is a he said she said. No witnesses except Mr. Bird and Ms Harris. The fact is SHE couldn't identify him in the first trial! SHE stood and argued when told to leave! SHE was peeking in windows. SHE is a lunatic! SHE said, he said...that is what I see. Someone was trying to make points by bringing charges against him.
I believe the town has come together and realized a terrible injustice has happened, and through our voices we will be heard! FREE WARD BIRD!
My points all along. Why did this progress so far? Were local police called on scene or did lady go to police station and file a complaint? Why didn't this just stop right in Moultonborough? If it was indeed a he said she said - why didn't our locals believe our local resident over that of an out of towner? I've found very very little as to what happened at the beginning. Were the police called on scene? Or did lady go to station and file a complaint? And what discretion does our uniformed branch have is such situations?
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:02 AM   #492
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I've just about had my fill of this thread...so couple final thoughts, from me.
I continue to be amused at the postings that read something like..."let's get him home, where he belongs"
"why hasn't this been overturned yet" "the Governor should just set him free"
Seriously people...what country do you live in...it doesn't work like that.
He was convicted by a jury, the judge then imposes a sentence in accordance with the law that "we the people" have created. There is NO ROOM OR PLACE for discretion. (Granted, there can be...like if he was terminally ill, and had a month to live, or something like that).
Stop saying/thinking/writing, he should just be set free. Under what law, I ask?
Attack and change the law...not the judge, jury, or governor.
Secondly...
I have sort of come full circle as the backround info surfaced here in this forum.
This woman used to live 2 miles from me, and was well known in town as a bit "off". 50 animals kept in a trailor, disrestpected police and other officials, and was known to be delusional... so,at first, I thought..well, maybe she was looking for trouble when she went to the propery that day. Maybe Ward was indeed frightened and was concerned for his safety.
However, it then comes out, that Ward is no stanger to police, and confrontation...and has a history of wanting to settle issues by brandishing, or even using, a firearm.
Sort of has that old school mentallity that while on his own property, he will set the rules and the law, not society.
It was asked earlier in this thread, why did this go so far???Why not just handled quickly, and locally? Well, my answer would be that, when the police got the call, and heard it was Ward Bird's property, they said "well, here we go again." And, although it may not be fair, because of his gun history, and earlier confrontation related to property issues...the woman had instant credibility with the police.
She said she was there to see some property for sale, and he brandished a firearm. He, in the past, has done battle with family over the selling of property, to the point where the police and guns where involved. So...how could they not believe her? Was he a victim of circumstance? Maybe.
Is she coocoo? Probably. Did Ward break the law, and was it not the first time? You know what...yeah, I think so.
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:30 AM   #493
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With respect to parsing headlines in the Citizen of Laconia to sway opinion on the Forum....

The headline reads "Petitioners reflect on their support of Bird." This is correct. "Reflect" means to think about or analyze past action. It is true that one petitioner reflected and decided he might not have signed if he had more information. But another petitioner, Luther, reflected that he would have signed it even if he knew the "new" information.

The point is..the headline in the paper is, strictly speaking, correct using the plural. The other point is that the headline makes no difference to the issue at hand and some of us (including me) may just have too much time on our hands.
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:34 AM   #494
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Posted on January 14, 2011 by John Martin
Hi everyone,

I wish I heard about this case earlier. They have the WRONG person in Jail. I rented a house to the same Christine Harris! She never paid rent, and when I took her to court, she made similar claims that I threatened her life over the phone, but she couldn’t come up with any phone records. Then she worked the court system for FIVE months! When the judge finally made a decision for her to leave, she filed a motion with the State Supreme court for intent to appeal, which was rejected.

My entire home was DESTROYED from Rottweilers she was breeding. The floors, walls were covered in animal feces and urine, and the bathtub had blood stains all over it from a dog that died there giving birth to a litter! I never recovered the damages to the property, nor the back rent. To make matters worse, I later see her name Christine Harris, a woman… “previously convicted and sentenced to six months in prison on animal cruelty charges in Salem District Court”!

CHRISTINE HARRIS should be in Jail!

I did contact the Governor’s office yesterday after hearing it on NPR. I gave them my information and contact number. Then this morning I contacted the Attorney General’s office with the same information.

I’m sorry I didn’t know about this earlier. (submitted by PeterC, curromastini@gmail.com)

Interesting, don't you think?
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:52 AM   #495
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You are very late to the game with this info...it's been dicussed, re-discussed, and discussed over again...somewhere among the 12,478 posts in this never ending thread.
While your info is accurte, if you want to introduce one's history into the case, your power of perception must also be pointed at Ward Bird...who, it turns out...has a history of the police coming to his property, to settle disputes relating to the real estate...has a history of gun "violations"...and has a history of being overly confrontational in such matters.
You see wuwu...What's good for one, has to be good for the other. If one of their histories comes into play...well then, the other has to be afforded the same thing...no?????
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:59 PM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
However, it then comes out, that Ward is no stanger to police, and confrontation...and has a history of wanting to settle issues by brandishing, or even using, a firearm..
You opened up this particular door. So please enlighten all of us interested as to just what "issues" in Ward's history is he known to have settled by the "brandishing, or even using, a firearm" ?
I know that I for one, would love to hear the answer to this question !
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:29 PM   #497
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Default Justice served???

Maybe Christine and Ward should be cell mates !!! Sounds just about as rediculous as many of the previous postings in this thread.
She seems like a pretty unsavory character..and many posts paint him like that as well. I have not met either of them.
No doubt that this is a bad situation....Ward put himself between a rock and a hard place with no escape route as far as the charges go. But when he opted to turn down the plea that was offered, he decided to gamble as to what the outcome would be. He lost.
I don't believe that anything that has been said in this forum can or will change the outcome.
At the end of the day, there are still only 2 people on this earth who know exactly what happened that day. Speculation, innuendoes, postulations and opinions have no bearing on the outcome.
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:03 PM   #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkinNH View Post
You opened up this particular door. So please enlighten all of us interested as to just what "issues" in Ward's history is he known to have settled by the "brandishing, or even using, a firearm" ?
I know that I for one, would love to hear the answer to this question !
Christ Almighty...I don't know...somewhere in these endless posts that just keep coming I read a story about gunshots and fireworks and getting dragged by a car and guns being shown and I DON'T FREAKIN' CARE ANYMORE!
Seriously...I know the woman, and as stated, believe she is not quite right. And, since have formed an opinion (based on this thread) that Ward is a bit of a confrontational person...but whatever...who cares?! This was a nice little thread at one point to make people aware of the fact that there was an organized movement to free Ward...website, functions, etc. But now...it's like some people think what they post will help the guy. Like there is actually an end game here...guess what, there is not!
The whole thread is a pile of nonsense now:
she's evil, he's nice, the jury is crazy, gun control, no gun control, live free or die, shoot a home invader and get a prize, animal cruelty, free him now, let him go, serve the three yeras, he has it coming, I like ice cream....
Whatever...no matter what is stated here, the Pats still lost to the Jets yesterday, and I can't fix that. Sorry.
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Old 01-17-2011, 03:25 PM   #499
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Ok, so I have a question. What good is it to carry a gun if, when you need to use it or even pull it out, you are going to go to jail? I have always thought you could protect yourself or your property but it doesn't seem like you are safe doing that any more.
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:32 PM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
Christ Almighty...I don't know...somewhere in these endless posts that just keep coming I read a story about gunshots and fireworks and getting dragged by a car and guns being shown and I DON'T FREAKIN' CARE ANYMORE!
Seriously...I know the woman, and as stated, believe she is not quite right. And, since have formed an opinion (based on this thread) that Ward is a bit of a confrontational person...but whatever...who cares?! This was a nice little thread at one point to make people aware of the fact that there was an organized movement to free Ward...website, functions, etc. But now...it's like some people think what they post will help the guy. Like there is actually an end game here...guess what, there is not!
The whole thread is a pile of nonsense now:
she's evil, he's nice, the jury is crazy, gun control, no gun control, live free or die, shoot a home invader and get a prize, animal cruelty, free him now, let him go, serve the three years, he has it coming, I like ice cream....
Whatever...no matter what is stated here, the Pats still lost to the Jets yesterday, and I can't fix that. Sorry.
WOW, don't get your panties all in a wad ! If your so dissatisfied with the direction of the thread and you feel it is a pile of nonsense, why do you keep coming back to it ? Don't read it anymore.
I have known the man personally for 20+ years and I am not aware of any "issues" that he "settled" in any form with a "firearm" and apparently neither do you.

An apology to to me about yesterdays game is completely unnecessary. I don't know who played, who won or lost and honestly don't care. I don't watch sports. But Thanks anyway.
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